Emu XL-7 & MP-7 User's Group

Hi
I still working out the XL-7, so this could well be due to me having 
something set funny...
Ive got an 8 bar loop running with 10 tracks running and the kick 
drum which is on track 1 drops out on certain bars even though ive 
checked that the note events are acutally there.
In fact there dosent seem to be a real pattern to the problem as it 
changes postion as to when the notes get dropped. If i mute say 2 of 
the higher tracks (11,12,13) the problem seems to clear up.
Im not over doing the tracks with loads of data either, so i dont 
think its using all the available voices by any means. Theres only 
one track with a bit of controller data going on (filter sweep).
I could understand if an event was trying to trigger the same sound 
twice on another track but that dosent seem to be whats going on.
Also ive noticed that if a change one of the presets for another 
sound that can cure the problem as well (say an arp for example)
Anyone else had this one?

Ps.. would it matter that the first 3 tracks use the same drum kit 
but there on the first 3 midi channels not all set to say channel 1?
 
Regards
Gonz

Hmmm, maybe check to make sure that the kick drum preset that keeps 
dropping out isn't set to an Assign Group?  This is in Preset Edit, try 
setting it to Poly All.

rEalm






Hi
I still working out the XL-7, so this could well be due to me having 
something set funny...
Ive got an 8 bar loop running with 10 tracks running and the kick 
drum which is on track 1 drops out on certain bars even though ive 
checked that the note events are acutally there.
In fact there dosent seem to be a real pattern to the problem as it 
changes postion as to when the notes get dropped. If i mute say 2 of 
the higher tracks (11,12,13) the problem seems to clear up.
Im not over doing the tracks with loads of data either, so i dont 
think its using all the available voices by any means. Theres only 
one track with a bit of controller data going on (filter sweep).
I could understand if an event was trying to trigger the same sound 
twice on another track but that dosent seem to be whats going on.
Also ive noticed that if a change one of the presets for another 
sound that can cure the problem as well (say an arp for example)
Anyone else had this one?

Ps.. would it matter that the first 3 tracks use the same drum kit 
but there on the first 3 midi channels not all set to say channel 1?
 
Regards
Gonz 




 
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I've had a similar problem that I didn't have time to resolve at the time....I'll see if I can reproduce it again and id rEalm's suggestion helps......

Bob
Corona/Riverside, CA

  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: erik_magrini@... 
  To: xl7@yahoogroups.com 
  Sent: Monday, August 09, 2004 6:01 AM
  Subject: Re: [xl7] Dropped notes


  Hmmm, maybe check to make sure that the kick drum preset that keeps 
  dropping out isn't set to an Assign Group?  This is in Preset Edit, try 
  setting it to Poly All.

  rEalm






  Hi
  I still working out the XL-7, so this could well be due to me having 
  something set funny...
  Ive got an 8 bar loop running with 10 tracks running and the kick 
  drum which is on track 1 drops out on certain bars even though ive 
  checked that the note events are acutally there.
  In fact there dosent seem to be a real pattern to the problem as it 
  changes postion as to when the notes get dropped. If i mute say 2 of 
  the higher tracks (11,12,13) the problem seems to clear up.
  Im not over doing the tracks with loads of data either, so i dont 
  think its using all the available voices by any means. Theres only 
  one track with a bit of controller data going on (filter sweep).
  I could understand if an event was trying to trigger the same sound 
  twice on another track but that dosent seem to be whats going on.
  Also ive noticed that if a change one of the presets for another 
  sound that can cure the problem as well (say an arp for example)
  Anyone else had this one?

  Ps.. would it matter that the first 3 tracks use the same drum kit 
  but there on the first 3 midi channels not all set to say channel 1?

  Regards
  Gonz 





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Ps.. would it matter that the first 3 tracks use the same drum kit
but there on the first 3 midi channels not all set to say channel 
1?

Hey,

  If I were you, I would make copies of the preset:drum kit that you 
are using and assign those to tracks.  That way each track has 
it's own preset to tweak.

Hi rEalm, Bob
I checked the Assign Group setting for all the presets i was using, 
they were all set Poly All except for the HH layer for cutting of 
open closed hats.. in fact any setting i tryed didnt seem to change 
anything.
It was the first thing i went looking for, note stealing. Its kinder 
random when it happens, at no particular place in any of the bars, 
though at some points it would... very odd!
Also it didnt always do it, just to make it harded to track it down.
I managed to find the offending prest that caused the problem.
It was the arp:DA-The Bump from the Protean Drum Rom. All i did was 
trigger it on the start of every bar over the 8 bar loop i had 
created. 
If i muted this part the problem goes.
Also i changed this preset for others and the problem still happened 
if not so bad.
When it happens there can be clicks as the kick drum gets cut short 
if it sounds at all that is..
I erased all controller data from all the tracks i was using just in 
case there was to much data flying around, this didnt make the 
slightest bit of differance.
Also tryed shortning the note length, that seemed to help if it was 
shorted to 3 measures than the four.
What i ended up doing was deleting the layers in the other presets 
that didnt seem to be used in the pattern. This did seem to help the 
problem. 
I looked back through the posts to see if anyone else had a simular 
problem. There was talk about layers that were assigned but not 
sounding that could effect polyphony. (resevered voices..??)
Maybe i didnt read that right, id have to go back and check.
Anyway i dont think i was anywhere near 128 voices sounding at once!! 
Thanks for your replies, i must get to the bottom of this before i 
get to involved in writing new stuff with it.
What do think?
Thanks!
Gonz 




--- In xl7@yahoogroups.com, <tttsystems@e...> wrote:
> I've had a similar problem that I didn't have time to resolve at 
the time....I'll see if I can reproduce it again and id rEalm's 
suggestion helps......
> 
> Bob
> Corona/Riverside, CA
> 
>   ----- Original Message ----- 
>   From: erik_magrini@B... 
>   To: xl7@yahoogroups.com 
>   Sent: Monday, August 09, 2004 6:01 AM
>   Subject: Re: [xl7] Dropped notes
> 
> 
>   Hmmm, maybe check to make sure that the kick drum preset that 
keeps 
>   dropping out isn't set to an Assign Group?  This is in Preset 
Edit, try 
>   setting it to Poly All.
> 
>   rEalm
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
>   Hi
>   I still working out the XL-7, so this could well be due to me 
having 
>   something set funny...
>   Ive got an 8 bar loop running with 10 tracks running and the kick 
>   drum which is on track 1 drops out on certain bars even though 
ive 
>   checked that the note events are acutally there.
>   In fact there dosent seem to be a real pattern to the problem as 
it 
>   changes postion as to when the notes get dropped. If i mute say 2 
of 
>   the higher tracks (11,12,13) the problem seems to clear up.
>   Im not over doing the tracks with loads of data either, so i dont 
>   think its using all the available voices by any means. Theres 
only 
>   one track with a bit of controller data going on (filter sweep).
>   I could understand if an event was trying to trigger the same 
sound 
>   twice on another track but that dosent seem to be whats going on.
>   Also ive noticed that if a change one of the presets for another 
>   sound that can cure the problem as well (say an arp for example)
>   Anyone else had this one?
> 
>   Ps.. would it matter that the first 3 tracks use the same drum 
kit 
>   but there on the first 3 midi channels not all set to say channel 
1?
> 
>   Regards
>   Gonz 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
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Hi, Im up for that but i got completley side tracked trying to get my 
head around the kick drum problem..
Infact after deleting layers that didnt seem to be sounding, i when 
off on a mission to try and understand the layering of differant drum
instruments to create new kits.. downloaded the drum maps for the 
roms i have, still got to look at that one..
Any tips for that?
Regards
Gonz


--- In xl7@yahoogroups.com, "djnorythm" <enter_the_netman@h...> wrote:
> Ps.. would it matter that the first 3 tracks use the same drum kit
> but there on the first 3 midi channels not all set to say channel 
> 1?
> 
> Hey,
> 
>   If I were you, I would make copies of the preset:drum kit that 
you 
> are using and assign those to tracks.  That way each track has 
> it's own preset to tweak.

I checked the Assign Group setting for all the presets i was using, they 
were all set Poly All except for the HH layer for cutting of open closed 
hats.

>>>Perfectly normal so far. <<<

Its kinder random when it happens, at no particular place in any of the 
bars, though at some points it would... very odd!

>>> Just to make it fun eh? <<<

I managed to find the offending prest that caused the problem.
It was the arp:DA-The Bump from the Protean Drum Rom. All i did was 
trigger it on the start of every bar over the 8 bar loop i had 
created. If i muted this part the problem goes.

>>>I too have run into some issues with certain Presets on the Protean 
Drum ROM, I wonder if they had issues making them?  If you want to send me 
a copy of the Pattern I'll try and confirm it on my machine too if you 
want?  Here's some links to other issues:

http://launch.groups.yahoo.com/group/xl7/message/14280
http://launch.groups.yahoo.com/group/xl7/message/13113

<<<

What i ended up doing was deleting the layers in the other presets that 
didnt seem to be used in the pattern. This did seem to help the problem. I 
looked back through the posts to see if anyone else had a simular problem. 
There was talk about layers that were assigned but not sounding that could 
effect polyphony. 

>>>Yeah, if you have any voices assigned but the 000:0 one, it willeat 
into your polyphony.  Still, with 128 voices available, shouldn't be too 
big of a deal unless your patterns are REALLY complex. <<<

What do think?

>>>Could be a bum instrument on the Drum ROM, wouldn't be the first time. 
If this pattern uses factory Presets, you can send it to me and I'll take 
a look at it at home. <<<

rEalm


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--- In xl7@yahoogroups.com, "gonzinigonz" <gonzini@f...> wrote:

[snip]

> What i ended up doing was deleting the layers in the other presets 
> that didnt seem to be used in the pattern. This did seem to help
> the problem.

I was about to suggest moving the offending track to a lower track 
number to see if that solved the problem.  (Lower track numbers have 
higher priority.) If so, it might indicate maxed out polyphony.  Your 
diagnostic solution (turning off layers) seems to indicate it is 
maxed out polyphony.
 
> I looked back through the posts to see if anyone else had a simular 
> problem. There was talk about layers that were assigned but not 
> sounding that could effect polyphony. (resevered voices..??)
> Maybe i didnt read that right, id have to go back and check.
> Anyway i dont think i was anywhere near 128 voices sounding at
> once!! 

Keep in mind, that's 128 layers. If all presets are using 4 layers, 
that's only 32 4-layer voices.

In a piece I am working on, I experienced clipping.  I haven't fixed 
it yet, since the tune is just under construction. I assume it is 
maxed out polyphony (?MOP?)

> Thanks for your replies, i must get to the bottom of this before i 
> get to involved in writing new stuff with it.
> What do think?
> Thanks!
> Gonz 

I recall that when creating !FX.presets [for use with an FX control 
track] Aaron recommended turning the ROM-Instruments to 0000:none to 
avoid voices being "stolen."  If you are using 1, 2, or 3 layers of a 
4-layer preset, perhaps the sane type of voice stealing is going on.

--Steve

I was about to suggest moving the offending track to a lower track 
number to see if that solved the problem.  (Lower track numbers have 
higher priority.) If so, it might indicate maxed out polyphony.  Your 
diagnostic solution (turning off layers) seems to indicate it is 
maxed out polyphony.

>>>I think he said the problem track was already on Track 1 though :( <<<
 
In a piece I am working on, I experienced clipping.  I haven't fixed it 
yet, since the tune is just under construction. I assume it is maxed out 
polyphony (?MOP?)

>>>I usually get clipping from too much resonance with some of the more 
complex Z-plane filters. ,<<

rEalm

 






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PS: Layer level chorus also uses polyphony.  If MOP is a problem, 
check layer level chorus.

(128 / 4 layers each with chorus = 16 note polyphony)

--Steve

Some of the filters use more poly too...

rEalm





steve_the_composer <smw-mail@...>
08/10/2004 11:30 AM
Please respond to xl7

 
        To:     xl7@yahoogroups.com
        cc: 

        Subject:        [xl7] Re: Dropped notes = MOP (Maxed Out Polyphony)


PS: Layer level chorus also uses polyphony.  If MOP is a problem, 
check layer level chorus.

(128 / 4 layers each with chorus = 16 note polyphony)

--Steve






 
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128 / 4 layers each with chorus and each using a 12-pole filter = 8 
note polyphony. (Need we say anything about linking presets?)

--- In xl7@yahoogroups.com, erik_magrini@B... wrote:

> Some of the filters use more poly too...
> 
> rEalm
> 
> (128 / 4 layers each with chorus = 16 note polyphony)
> 
> --Steve

Hi Guys! Cheers for all your replies, ive been working today and only 
just got back..
I checked that all the chorus's were turned off so the voices arn't 
being used up there.
The thing about differant filters using up more voices is something 
l'll have to look into.. is this documented somewhere?
Ive still not had a chance to sit down and read the manual fully, and 
learn things the emu way ;o)(those effect sends are very strange..)
Does seem a bit odd that its track 1 thats really badly effected, 
though i did notice that an open hat can become shortened as well.
It doesent sound any where as bad as when the kick drops out with pop 
or click.
l'll go through things again tomorrow and see if i can be more 
precise where things are going wrong.
Maybe i could send you the dump of the offending pattern like you 
suggested. If i create a simular thing with the stock rom l'll see if 
i can create the problem again.
Thanks for your interest in helping me it is appreciated :o)
Will post my finding tomorrow.
Regards
Gonz


PS..ive got a quasimidi 309 that exhibits the same problem with the 
kick!! pretty sure thats maxed out polyhony. Think its about 5 voices 
on a good day! Though it seems like less...



--- In xl7@yahoogroups.com, "steve_the_composer" <smw-mail@p...> 
wrote:

> 128 / 4 layers each with chorus and each using a 12-pole filter = 8 
> note polyphony. (Need we say anything about linking presets?)
> 
> --- In xl7@yahoogroups.com, erik_magrini@B... wrote:
> > Some of the filters use more poly too...
> > 
> > rEalm
> > 
> > (128 / 4 layers each with chorus = 16 note polyphony)
> > 
> > --Steve

Oh yer.. nothing linked either, i checked that as well..


--- In xl7@yahoogroups.com, "gonzinigonz" <gonzini@f...> wrote:
> Hi Guys! Cheers for all your replies, ive been working today and 
only 
> just got back..
> I checked that all the chorus's were turned off so the voices arn't 
> being used up there.
> The thing about differant filters using up more voices is something 
> l'll have to look into.. is this documented somewhere?
> Ive still not had a chance to sit down and read the manual fully, 
and 
> learn things the emu way ;o)(those effect sends are very strange..)
> Does seem a bit odd that its track 1 thats really badly effected, 
> though i did notice that an open hat can become shortened as well.
> It doesent sound any where as bad as when the kick drops out with 
pop 
> or click.
> l'll go through things again tomorrow and see if i can be more 
> precise where things are going wrong.
> Maybe i could send you the dump of the offending pattern like you 
> suggested. If i create a simular thing with the stock rom l'll see 
if 
> i can create the problem again.
> Thanks for your interest in helping me it is appreciated :o)
> Will post my finding tomorrow.
> Regards
> Gonz
> 
> 
> PS..ive got a quasimidi 309 that exhibits the same problem with the 
> kick!! pretty sure thats maxed out polyhony. Think its about 5 
voices 
> on a good day! Though it seems like less...
> 
> 
> 
> --- In xl7@yahoogroups.com, "steve_the_composer" <smw-mail@p...> 
> wrote:
> > 128 / 4 layers each with chorus and each using a 12-pole filter = 
8 

> > note polyphony. (Need we say anything about linking presets?)
> > 
> > --- In xl7@yahoogroups.com, erik_magrini@B... wrote:
> > > Some of the filters use more poly too...
> > > 
> > > rEalm
> > > 
> > > (128 / 4 layers each with chorus = 16 note polyphony)
> > > 
> > > --Steve

The thing about differant filters using up more voices is something 
l'll have to look into.. is this documented somewhere?

>>> Yep, in the manual in the filters section. <<<

Ive still not had a chance to sit down and read the manual fully, and 
learn things the emu way ;o)(those effect sends are very strange..)

>>>Doh!  Sit down and read it then! :)  The Sends are also covered in my 
FAQ if you need an alternate view on them. <<<

Does seem a bit odd that its track 1 thats really badly effected, 
though i did notice that an open hat can become shortened as well.

>>>Well, you did say your HH's were Assigned to a Group, and that is the 
purpose of them. The Closed HH will stop the Open HH just like on a real 
drum kit. <<<

rEalm

 
 






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IF MOP clipping is the issue here (not sure it is) and
IF track 1 has priority, then
does that mean that track 1 layers/voices would be clipped first?

To test, try bumping track 1 to highest avaialble track.  (Long shot, 
but it may be worth a try).

--Steve_the_diagnostician


--- In xl7@yahoogroups.com, erik_magrini@B... wrote:
> Does seem a bit odd that its track 1 thats really badly effected, 
> though i did notice that an open hat can become shortened as well.
> 
> >>>Well, you did say your HH's were Assigned to a Group, and that
> is the purpose of them. The Closed HH will stop the Open HH just
> like on a real drum kit. <<<
> 
> rEalm
> 
>  
>  
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> 
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Hi Guys..

>>> Yep, in the manual in the filters section. <<<

l'll give the filter section of the manual a read over, load of work 
happening at the mo....
Had to switch it off yesterday to leave.. never enough hours. (at the 
moment!)

>>>Doh! Sit down and read it then! :) The Sends are also covered in my
FAQ if you need an alternate view on them. <<<

I did read your FAQ, very imformative helped me understand things..
I got my head around it enough to get them to do what i wanted.
Ive been using the XL-7 in multimode with the global effects setting.
Im just used to be able to send an FX send amount from a patch 
individually in multimode on other synths.
looks to me that when you use global FX's you have to preset your 
amounts on the 8 sends and thats that.Just hard routing from the 
presets to the FX busses
Also having to leave one dry (0%)to get a clean signal out seems odd.
Maybe i missed something with that? as i couldnt adjust the sends in 
each preset when set to global that looks like how it is. 
Thats cool :o)  
 
> > >>>Well, you did say your HH's were Assigned to a Group, and that
> > is the purpose of them. The Closed HH will stop the Open HH just
> > like on a real drum kit. <<<

I have the open hats on a differant track to the closed. If i mute 
the closed hats track the open hats would still get shortened.
If i muted the offending track causing this problem the hats and kick 
clear up.

> IF MOP clipping is the issue here (not sure it is) and
> IF track 1 has priority, then
> does that mean that track 1 layers/voices would be clipped first?

> To test, try bumping track 1 to highest avaialble track.  (Long 
>shot, but it may be worth a try).

Tryed that as it goes, i moved the kick track (track 1) up to the top 
track 15 in the pattern. Still seemed to cut off..

I going to start again with the new knowledge of the unit, see how 
things work out. Might try a live thing over the weekend.. Just 1 
track with some friends, time permitting of coarse.

Cheers a
Gonz

Hi Again, Ive created some pics of the kick problem..
It does sound / looks like voice stealing to me.
Also do you think it could be something to do with the envelopes 
cutting of too quickly? I havant found any triggering options so far.

Clean Kick:-

http://tinyurl.com/3m546

Cut off Kick:-

http://tinyurl.com/4emlb

Ive just switched of all the filters on all the layers of all the 
presets.
Ive made all the presets to use 1 instrument on 1 layer only.
Chorus is switched of on all presets.
There is not controller data in any of the tracks.
I saved this bank of again to compare against the offending bank.
It has improved but it will still play up randomly
Do the arps use up a lot of processing power? (Im using 4)
Also ive noticed that some presets are worse than others though they 
my be of the same complexity (laters, filters etc) 
Dosent seem to be effected by which rom board is in use or order.
It seems a bit hard to judge how many voices you are using, thats why 
ive tryed the above to minimize them.
l'll keep trying a few more things..its a pain the arse!
Cheers
Gonz

(Like tiny URL!)

Well... looks like you really have to set the assign groups to stop 
the nasty voice stealing thing (I know thats what its there 
for.. ;o) )
I added up the voices that *could* be sounding at worst case, ie all 
together at the same time to approx 30 in the pattern. 128??!! 
voices..uhmm. (all filters off!! etc)
So assigning the kick to its own group, be it mono or other seems to 
clear the problem up, so thats the solution i guess. I can get 
repeatable results with this so thats a good thing.
Im sure i tryed this before and it didnt work.. must of been a late 
one.
Cheers for your help guys!
Regards
Gonz

Glad you found a solution.  I'll have to add that to my list of 
things to try if I start maxing out!

I guess another option would be to get a second unit for 256 voice 
polyphony.  I've seen people selling ROM-less P2k-based shells, so if 
you have more than one ROM, you could put one (or more ROMS) in the 
shell.  Last I looked there was a ROM-less shell on e-bay for 
$100.00.  Not sure if it was a 64 voice or 128 voice e-mu.  If 128 
voices aren't enough, this might be an option.

--Steve



--- In xl7@yahoogroups.com, "gonzinigonz" <gonzini@f...> wrote:
> Well... looks like you really have to set the assign groups to stop 
> the nasty voice stealing thing (I know thats what its there 
> for.. ;o) )
> I added up the voices that *could* be sounding at worst case, ie 
all 
> together at the same time to approx 30 in the pattern. 128??!! 
> voices..uhmm. (all filters off!! etc)
> So assigning the kick to its own group, be it mono or other seems 
to 

> clear the problem up, so thats the solution i guess. I can get 
> repeatable results with this so thats a good thing.
> Im sure i tryed this before and it didnt work.. must of been a late 
> one.
> Cheers for your help guys!
> Regards
> Gonz

Hi,
I think i have anyway, though on the second layer of the kick drum 
preset ive put a 'blip' instrument in there to give the kick a bit of 
attack. This also was droppping out, but didnt seem to be corrected 
with the assign function :o( 
l'll group assign voices in all the other presets in use and see if 
that helps.
Seems strange that it was maxing out so soon, i reckon only 30 voices 
worst case. Bearing in mind ive turned off all the filters and there 
was no chorus on any of the layers in any preset, i dont believe this 
can be a true 128 voices as stated in real use..
I can understand turning of functions that are not needed to help DSP 
head room (waldorf mQ.. VA Synth though..)
Now i know that available voices are effected by what other functions 
are in use, l'll be turning everything off that isnt needed.
This does seem to be a weak part of the unit.
It was the same playing back the same seq from cubase.
My MPC2000xl never exhibited this probelm with its 32 voice 
polyphony, and keeped rock solid timing with it. Ive heard this be 
sloppy..      
I think l'll connect me sampler as it goes, its not been used in 
while.. l'll sample the XL-7 and do it that way.
Actually having looked back through the posts, this problem has 
cropped up before.
Anyway enough rantings, get on and use it a..
Cheers Steve
Gonz
 


--- In xl7@yahoogroups.com, "steve_the_composer" <smw-mail@p...> 
wrote:
> Glad you found a solution.  I'll have to add that to my list of 
> things to try if I start maxing out!
> 
> I guess another option would be to get a second unit for 256 voice 
> polyphony.  I've seen people selling ROM-less P2k-based shells, so 
if 
> you have more than one ROM, you could put one (or more ROMS) in the 
> shell.  Last I looked there was a ROM-less shell on e-bay for 
> $100.00.  Not sure if it was a 64 voice or 128 voice e-mu.  If 128 
> voices aren't enough, this might be an option.
> 
> --Steve
> 
> 
> 
> --- In xl7@yahoogroups.com, "gonzinigonz" <gonzini@f...> wrote:
> > Well... looks like you really have to set the assign groups to 
stop 
> > the nasty voice stealing thing (I know thats what its there 
> > for.. ;o) )
> > I added up the voices that *could* be sounding at worst case, ie 
> all 
> > together at the same time to approx 30 in the pattern. 128??!! 
> > voices..uhmm. (all filters off!! etc)
> > So assigning the kick to its own group, be it mono or other seems 
> to 
> > clear the problem up, so thats the solution i guess. I can get 
> > repeatable results with this so thats a good thing.
> > Im sure i tryed this before and it didnt work.. must of been a 
late 

> > one.
> > Cheers for your help guys!
> > Regards
> > Gonz

One more thing I was thinking of about this, have you gone into Note List 
Edit and checked to make sure you don't have any ntoes with really long 
lengths accidentally?  I now sometimes I get a note that will accidentally 
have it's length set to 32 measures, that would definitely eat into your 
poly too.

rEalm





gonzinigonz <gonzini@...>
08/13/2004 09:32 AM
Please respond to xl7

 
        To:     xl7@yahoogroups.com
        cc: 

        Subject:        [xl7] Re: Dropped notes = MOP (Maxed Out Polyphony)


Hi Again, Ive created some pics of the kick problem..
It does sound / looks like voice stealing to me.
Also do you think it could be something to do with the envelopes 
cutting of too quickly? I havant found any triggering options so far.

Clean Kick:-

http://tinyurl.com/3m546

Cut off Kick:-

http://tinyurl.com/4emlb

Ive just switched of all the filters on all the layers of all the 
presets.
Ive made all the presets to use 1 instrument on 1 layer only.
Chorus is switched of on all presets.
There is not controller data in any of the tracks.
I saved this bank of again to compare against the offending bank.
It has improved but it will still play up randomly
Do the arps use up a lot of processing power? (Im using 4)
Also ive noticed that some presets are worse than others though they 
my be of the same complexity (laters, filters etc) 
Dosent seem to be effected by which rom board is in use or order.
It seems a bit hard to judge how many voices you are using, thats why 
ive tryed the above to minimize them.
l'll keep trying a few more things..its a pain the arse!
Cheers
Gonz

(Like tiny URL!)




 
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Hi rEalm, 
I checked for that.. I transfered the pattern over using E Loader and 
opened it up in cubase where i could see what was going on better. 
There mainly short notes to trigger drum samples (16ths)
A few tracks have longer notes but not longer than the end of the 
pattern.
They go over the 8 bars for triggering arps. I did knock off a few 
ticks too a few measures to check that.
Maybe i should try and trigger arps on every bar and not over the 
whole 8 bars.
Also ive had problems with the arps not syncing with the tempo when 
changing between patterns, dont know if theres a clue there?
The others are on every bar and dont spill over into the next (i 
shorted these events as well..)
The other thing is that if its going to play up it will do it from 
off so its not accumaltive of a peroid of cycing of bars.
I think the assign parameter is most likely the key and getting the 
voice alication sorted out for esch preset.
Strangely enough assigning the kick layer to its own group cured that 
dropping out, but another instument on the 2nd layer still would drop 
out even though i had assigned it to its own group.
Also theres some other artifacts going on. when the 2nd layer drops 
out the kick drum dosent drop out but the sound changes. either 
sounding for longer or the like.
At the end of the day you proberly wouldnt notice that in a mix but 
its there and shouldnt do it.
Having said all this l'll will check all the note data again just in 
case ive missed something.
I want to keep using this box, its a much better user interface than 
the MPC :o) for the way i like to work.
Cheers for having a think on it, i appreciate your input.
Regards

Gonz


--- In xl7@yahoogroups.com, erik_magrini@B... wrote:
> One more thing I was thinking of about this, have you gone into 
Note List 
> Edit and checked to make sure you don't have any ntoes with really 
long 
> lengths accidentally?  I now sometimes I get a note that will 
accidentally 
> have it's length set to 32 measures, that would definitely eat into 
your 
> poly too.
> 
> rEalm
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> gonzinigonz <gonzini@f...>
> 08/13/2004 09:32 AM
> Please respond to xl7
> 
>  
>         To:     xl7@yahoogroups.com
>         cc: 
>         Subject:        [xl7] Re: Dropped notes = MOP (Maxed Out 
Polyphony)
> 
> 
> Hi Again, Ive created some pics of the kick problem..
> It does sound / looks like voice stealing to me.
> Also do you think it could be something to do with the envelopes 
> cutting of too quickly? I havant found any triggering options so 
far.
> 
> Clean Kick:-
> 
> http://tinyurl.com/3m546
> 
> Cut off Kick:-
> 
> http://tinyurl.com/4emlb
> 
> Ive just switched of all the filters on all the layers of all the 
> presets.
> Ive made all the presets to use 1 instrument on 1 layer only.
> Chorus is switched of on all presets.
> There is not controller data in any of the tracks.
> I saved this bank of again to compare against the offending bank.
> It has improved but it will still play up randomly
> Do the arps use up a lot of processing power? (Im using 4)
> Also ive noticed that some presets are worse than others though 
they 
> my be of the same complexity (laters, filters etc) 
> Dosent seem to be effected by which rom board is in use or order.
> It seems a bit hard to judge how many voices you are using, thats 
why 
> ive tryed the above to minimize them.
> l'll keep trying a few more things..its a pain the arse!
> Cheers
> Gonz
> 
> (Like tiny URL!)
> 
> 
> 
> 
>  
> Yahoo! Groups Links
> 
> 
> 
>  
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The information transmitted is intended only for the person(s)or 
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> use of, or taking of any action in reliance upon, this information 
by 

> entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. If you 
> receive this in error, please contact the sender and delete the 
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> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Maybe i should try and trigger arps on every bar and not over the whole 8 
bars.

>>>When I do this, I typically listen to the arp to hear how many measures 
long it is, and then trigger it that duration.  Some arps are only 1 
measure long, some are as long as 4 bars I think??? <<<

Also ive had problems with the arps not syncing with the tempo when 
changing between patterns, dont know if theres a clue there?

>>>Do you mean you've got an arp in one pattern, and an arp in another 
pattern, and when you do the switch, the second arp won't start in time? 
Or are you holding an arp that's independant of the pattern when you 
switch?  I used to trigger arps with the trigger buttons, and let those 
ride while I was XMIX'ing and switching patterns with no issues, hmmmm. 
Have you tried reloading the OS and/or reseting the XX-7 by any chance? 
Sorry, I can't remember what steps you've all tried so far... <<<

I think the assign parameter is most likely the key and getting the voice 
alication sorted out for esch preset.

>>>Yeah, that can help, but unless you're using lots of 12th order filters 
and using Preset Links, I really can't see this being a polyphonyproblem 
per se.  Not ruling it out, but I've thrown some pretty complex sequences 
at the Px-7 and it's handled them fine.  Especially if your kick is on 
Track 1, which has highest priority. <<<

Cheers for having a think on it, i appreciate your input.

>>>No prob, this is definitely a strange one.  Again, if this uses Factory 
Presets, it would be easier to help if you sent me the Pattern file to 
look at on my PX-7. <<<

rEalm


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Hi

> Also ive had problems with the arps not syncing with the tempo when 
> changing between patterns, dont know if theres a clue there?
> 
> >>>Do you mean you've got an arp in one pattern, and an arp in 
>another 
> pattern, and when you do the switch, the second arp won't start in 
>time? 

Yep thats the one, sometimes its ok other times not..

> Or are you holding an arp that's independant of the pattern when 
you 
> switch?  I used to trigger arps with the trigger buttons, and let 
those 
> ride while I was XMIX'ing and switching patterns with no issues, 
hmmmm.


Have yet to try that way, im still wading through it all! 

> Have you tried reloading the OS and/or reseting the XX-7 by any 
>chance? 
> Sorry, I can't remember what steps you've all tried so far... <<<

Ive tryed reseting the XL-7 and ive run the factory diagnostics on 
the DSP's and ram etc, all good (so it says..)
Ive not reloaded the O/S again as it doesnt seem to crash or the 
like, just this voice stealing problem. Not sure if that could be 
just down to a dirty midi dump to the unit.
When i updated the O/S it went without a hitch, im sure the check sum 
was correct as well ( ABA794C2 )

> I think the assign parameter is most likely the key and getting the 
>voice 
> alication sorted out for esch preset.
> 
> >>>Yeah, that can help, but unless you're using lots of 12th order 
filters and using Preset Links, I really can't see this being a 
>polyphonyproblem per se.  Not ruling it out, but I've thrown some 
>pretty complex sequences 
> at the Px-7 and it's handled them fine.  Especially if your kick is 
>on Track 1, which has highest priority. <<<


Ive now tryed this with all filters switched off on all presets on 
all layers (so to not eat into polphony) No effects turned on , no 
chorus turned on anywhere.
It still can play up..
Also ive played back the same seq in cubase to the XL-7 and used it 
as a sound module. It still played up.

> Cheers for having a think on it, i appreciate your input.
> 
> >>>No prob, this is definitely a strange one.  Again, if this uses 
>Factory 
> Presets, it would be easier to help if you sent me the Pattern file 
>to 
> look at on my PX-7. <<<

It dosen't use factory presets anymore as ive switched of all 
layers / filters and instruments that arn't being used anymore.
What roms do you have in your PX-7? Ive got the X Lead, Techno rom, 
Protean Rom and Beat Garden rom.
I guess if i try something else using the protean rom you will have 
this in your PX-7?
Im right in the middle of a load of engineering work at the moment so 
my spare times a bit sparse. When i get a chance i try to get it to 
play up using presets from one of the roms you may have the same.
Thanks for your help, it would be good to get some else opion on the 
problem..
Regards
Gonz

Ive not reloaded the O/S again as it doesnt seem to crash or the like, 
just this voice stealing problem. 

>>>Hmmm, considering it can't hurt to try, I'd say go for an OS reinstall 
just in case. <<<

Also ive played back the same seq in cubase to the XL-7 and used it as a 
sound module. It still played up.

>>>Is it only one certain Layer instrument (ie Kick) that this happens to, 
or is it any kick you use? <<<

What roms do you have in your PX-7? 

>>>Protean Drums, P2500, World Rom, and XL-7 ROM. Sorry you haven't been 
able to fix this yet, I'm starting to think it may be the ROM you have, as 
a few of us have reported some occasional weirdness with certai 
instruments on the Protean Drum ROM. <<<

rEalm


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> >>>Hmmm, considering it can't hurt to try, I'd say go for an OS 
>reinstall just in case. <<<

Might try that one, i always get a bit jumpy when i flash O/S's in 
music gear.. 
 
> >>>Is it only one certain Layer instrument (ie Kick) that this 
>happens to, or is it any kick you use? <<<

Happens to other kicks and also theres a 'blip' sound on layer 2 
thats effected. This also seems to be why the open hat can get cut 
off as well.

> >>>Protean Drums, P2500, World Rom, and XL-7 ROM. Sorry you haven't 
>been able to fix this yet, I'm starting to think it may be the ROM 
>you have, as a few of us have reported some occasional weirdness 
>with certai instruments on the Protean Drum ROM. <<<

Ive tryed sounds of the other roms, im sure they were the same. Tryed 
differant combinations of roms / sounds.
I had a feeling that it could be certain instruments but now im not 
so sure..
I found that theres some messy programming of the instruments on the 
roms, filters on on empty layers etc
l'll find some time to create a pattern that plays up with one of the 
roms you have.
Regards
Gonz