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Thread

Dark Time low gate out signal

2013-09-23 by nuipb1@gmail.com

Hi group,

Dark TIme has this strange behaviour: the gate out signal seems low, sending around only 2 to 3V (probably 2,5V but my measuring tool is not accurate) when it should be sending 5V and around 5V when it should be sending 12V (jumper in the 12V position).

Would anyone have any idea what could cause this ?

Also, I noticed that in the "Update DT firmware" PDF page 2 first picture, 1 of the 2 jumpers circled in red (the one at the right ) is not in the same position as the one in my DT. The one in my DT is directly perpendicular to the left side of the other instead of being parallel to its right side.

Should I correct this or this has nothing to do with the first issue and is not source of any other issue ?

Thanks for your advices,

Cheers,

Phil

AW: [Doepfer_a100] Dark Time low gate out signal

2013-09-24 by yahoo@doepfer.de

> Hi group,
>
>
> Dark TIme has this strange behaviour: the gate out signal seems
> low, sending around only 2 to 3V (probably 2,5V but my measuring
> tool is not accurate) when it should be sending 5V and around 5V
> when it should be sending 12V (jumper in the 12V position).
> Would anyone have any idea what could cause this ?
>
>
> Also, I noticed that in the "Update DT firmware" PDF page 2 first
> picture, 1 of the 2 jumpers circled in red (the one at the right
> ) is not in the same position as the one in my DT. The one in my
> DT is directly perpendicular to the left side of the other
> instead of being parallel to its right side.
> Should I correct this or this has nothing to do with the first
> issue and is not source of any other issue ?
>
>
> Thanks for your advices,
> Cheers,
> Phil

I cannot imagine that the Dark Time outputs only 2-3V Gate level. It
probably has to do with your measuring method. If you use a normal voltmeter
(e.g. a multimeter) you measure the average value of the high states (e.g.
+5V) and low states (0V) of the gate signal. If the pulsewidth is 50% you
will measure about 2.5V with your voltmeter. To measure the level of the
high state of the gate signal an oscilloscope is required. But you may
obtain a better result even with a simple voltmeter if you increase the
pulsewidth to the max. setting. Then you should read a value close to +5V
with your voltmeter (or +12V with the gate level jumper in the +12V
position).

Concerning you question about the update document I ask you to address this
question to our Dark Time specialist Christian Assall (software@doepfer.de).
But he is still on holiday until next week.

Best wishes
Dieter Doepfer

Re: [Doepfer_a100] Dark Time low gate out signal

2013-09-24 by Phil a

Thanks for your reply.

Maybe my measuring method is not correct, I will try to find some of these tools you recommend but what fact is I cannot get the envelope of my synth triggered properly when feeding it with the gate output of the DT, the envelope is lazy and weak, whereas when I send the gate output of a Minibrute for example into the same synth it triggers the envelopes perfectly, strong and clear, this is why I assumed that signal from the DT was too low.

Regarding the other question I will contact Christian next week then.

Thanks,
Phil

Show quoted textHide quoted text

On Tue, Sep 24, 2013 at 9:33 AM, <yahoo@doepfer.de> wrote:

> Hi group,
>
>
> Dark TIme has this strange behaviour: the gate out signal seems
> low, sending around only 2 to 3V (probably 2,5V but my measuring
> tool is not accurate) when it should be sending 5V and around 5V
> when it should be sending 12V (jumper in the 12V position).
> Would anyone have any idea what could cause this ?
>
>
> Also, I noticed that in the "Update DT firmware" PDF page 2 first
> picture, 1 of the 2 jumpers circled in red (the one at the right
> ) is not in the same position as the one in my DT. The one in my
> DT is directly perpendicular to the left side of the other
> instead of being parallel to its right side.
> Should I correct this or this has nothing to do with the first
> issue and is not source of any other issue ?
>
>
> Thanks for your advices,
> Cheers,
> Phil

I cannot imagine that the Dark Time outputs only 2-3V Gate level. It
probably has to do with your measuring method. If you use a normal voltmeter
(e.g. a multimeter) you measure the average value of the high states (e.g.
+5V) and low states (0V) of the gate signal. If the pulsewidth is 50% you
will measure about 2.5V with your voltmeter. To measure the level of the
high state of the gate signal an oscilloscope is required. But you may
obtain a better result even with a simple voltmeter if you increase the
pulsewidth to the max. setting. Then you should read a value close to +5V
with your voltmeter (or +12V with the gate level jumper in the +12V
position).

Concerning you question about the update document I ask you to address this
question to our Dark Time specialist Christian Assall (software@doepfer.de).
But he is still on holiday until next week.

Best wishes
Dieter Doepfer

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AW: [Doepfer_a100] Dark Time low gate out signal

2013-09-24 by yahoo@doepfer.de

> Thanks for your reply.
> Maybe my measuring method is not correct, I will try to find some
> of these tools you recommend but what fact is I cannot get the
> envelope of my synth triggered properly when feeding it with the
> gate output of the DT, the envelope is lazy and weak, whereas
> when I send the gate output of a Minibrute for example into the
> same synth it triggers the envelopes perfectly, strong and clear,
> this is why I assumed that signal from the DT was too low.
>
>
> Regarding the other question I will contact Christian next week then.
>
>
> Thanks,
> Phil

Maybe the +5V gate level is not sufficient and you have to select the +12V
gate level by changing the corresponding jumper.

Best wishes
Dieter Doepfer

Re: [Doepfer_a100] Dark Time low gate out signal

2013-09-24 by Phil a

I tried both positions and the result is the same and I doubt the Minibrute's gate output delivers more than 5V....

Regards,
Phil

Show quoted textHide quoted text

On Tue, Sep 24, 2013 at 12:11 PM, <yahoo@doepfer.de> wrote:

> Thanks for your reply.
> Maybe my measuring method is not correct, I will try to find some
> of these tools you recommend but what fact is I cannot get the
> envelope of my synth triggered properly when feeding it with the
> gate output of the DT, the envelope is lazy and weak, whereas
> when I send the gate output of a Minibrute for example into the
> same synth it triggers the envelopes perfectly, strong and clear,
> this is why I assumed that signal from the DT was too low.
>
>
> Regarding the other question I will contact Christian next week then.
>
>
> Thanks,
> Phil

Maybe the +5V gate level is not sufficient and you have to select the +12V
gate level by changing the corresponding jumper.

Best wishes
Dieter Doepfer

AW: [Doepfer_a100] Dark Time low gate out signal

2013-09-24 by yahoo@doepfer.de

> I tried both positions and the result is the same and I doubt the
> Minibrute's gate output delivers more than 5V....
>
> Regards,
> Phil

The Dark Time gate output circuit is a 10k pullup resistor (connected to +5V
or +12V depending on the jumper position) and a transistor switching to GND.
If the input load of the envelope generator connected to the gate output is
too low this may explain the behaviour. The envelope generators of the A-100
and other Doepfer units have 47k load (or more) and 2V are sufficient to
trigger the envelope. Maybe the envelope generator you use has a much lower
load. Which envelope generator do you connect to the Dark Time ? E.g. some
MFB units are known for their unusual load.

Best wishes
Dieter Doepfer

Re: [Doepfer_a100] Dark Time low gate out signal

2013-09-24 by Phil a

I connected it to a ARP 2600 gate in.

Phil

Show quoted textHide quoted text

On Tue, Sep 24, 2013 at 12:38 PM, <yahoo@doepfer.de> wrote:

> I tried both positions and the result is the same and I doubt the
> Minibrute's gate output delivers more than 5V....
>
> Regards,
> Phil

The Dark Time gate output circuit is a 10k pullup resistor (connected to +5V
or +12V depending on the jumper position) and a transistor switching to GND.
If the input load of the envelope generator connected to the gate output is
too low this may explain the behaviour. The envelope generators of the A-100
and other Doepfer units have 47k load (or more) and 2V are sufficient to
trigger the envelope. Maybe the envelope generator you use has a much lower
load. Which envelope generator do you connect to the Dark Time ? E.g. some
MFB units are known for their unusual load.

Best wishes
Dieter Doepfer

------------------------------------

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AW: [Doepfer_a100] Dark Time low gate out signal

2013-09-24 by yahoo@doepfer.de

> I connected it to a ARP 2600 gate in.
>
>
> Phil

As far as I remember the ARP envelope generators require both gate and
trigger. But I have heard that in most cases it's sufficient to connect the
gate source to both ARP sockets (gate and trigger) via a multiple. Maybe
someone in the group has experience with the ARP2600.

Best wishes
Dieter Doepfer

Re: [Doepfer_a100] Dark Time low gate out signal

2013-09-24 by Phil a

Well again, the gate output of the Minibrute alone does the job perfectly.

I will try the DT with some eurorack envelopes later on and get back to you...

Regards,
Phil

Show quoted textHide quoted text

On Tue, Sep 24, 2013 at 12:59 PM, <yahoo@doepfer.de> wrote:

> I connected it to a ARP 2600 gate in.
>
>
> Phil

As far as I remember the ARP envelope generators require both gate and
trigger. But I have heard that in most cases it's sufficient to connect the
gate source to both ARP sockets (gate and trigger) via a multiple. Maybe
someone in the group has experience with the ARP2600.

Best wishes
Dieter Doepfer

Re: [Doepfer_a100] Dark Time low gate out signal

2013-09-24 by Phil a

For the record, when I connect a Kenton pro-2000 it also works fine.

Regards,
Phil

Show quoted textHide quoted text

On Tue, Sep 24, 2013 at 12:59 PM, <yahoo@doepfer.de> wrote:

> I connected it to a ARP 2600 gate in.
>
>
> Phil

As far as I remember the ARP envelope generators require both gate and
trigger. But I have heard that in most cases it's sufficient to connect the
gate source to both ARP sockets (gate and trigger) via a multiple. Maybe
someone in the group has experience with the ARP2600.

Best wishes
Dieter Doepfer

Re: AW: [Doepfer_a100] Dark Time low gate out signal

2013-09-24 by Bakis Sirros

IIRC, the ARP 2600 needs high voltage to be triggered (close to 15 volts high)


 
Bakis


________________________________

Show quoted textHide quoted text

 From: "yahoo@doepfer.de" <yahoo@doepfer.de>
To: Doepfer_a100@yahoogroups.com 
Sent: Tuesday, September 24, 2013 1:59 PM
Subject: AW: [Doepfer_a100] Dark Time low gate out signal

> I connected it to a ARP 2600 gate in.
>
>
> Phil

As far as I remember the ARP envelope generators require both gate and
trigger. But I have heard that in most cases it's sufficient to connect the
gate source to both ARP sockets (gate and trigger) via a multiple. Maybe
someone in the group has experience with the ARP2600.

Best wishes
Dieter Doepfer

Re: AW: [Doepfer_a100] Dark Time low gate out signal

2013-10-01 by Phil a

Hi,

I heard from Arturia that the Minibrute has a 12V gate output, so it seems that this is enough for the ARP.

I tried the DT on some eurorack envelopes and it worked properly. So I guess this is a slight incompatibility issue with the ARP gate.

Since the MiniBrute delivers 12V could it damage my eurorack envelopes since they seem to be expecting a 5V trigger?

Also, one of the switches of the DT is broken. Where can I buy one for replacement ?

Regards,
Phil

On Tue, Sep 24, 2013 at 1:13 PM, Bakis Sirros <synth_freak_2000@yahoo.com> wrote:

IIRC, the ARP 2600 needs high voltage to be triggered (close to 15 volts high)

Bakis

Show quoted textHide quoted text

From: "yahoo@doepfer.de" <yahoo@doepfer.de>
To: Doepfer_a100@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Tuesday, September 24, 2013 1:59 PM
Subject: AW: [Doepfer_a100] Dark Time low gate out signal

> I connected it to a ARP 2600 gate in.
>
>
> Phil

As far as I remember the ARP envelope generators require both gate and
trigger. But I have heard that in most cases it's sufficient to connect the
gate source to both ARP sockets (gate and trigger) via a multiple. Maybe
someone in the group has experience with the ARP2600.

Best wishes
Dieter Doepfer

AW: AW: [Doepfer_a100] Dark Time low gate out signal

2013-10-01 by yahoo@doepfer.de

> Hi,
>
> I heard from Arturia that the Minibrute has a 12V gate output, so
> it seems that this is enough for the ARP.
> I tried the DT on some eurorack envelopes and it worked properly.
> So I guess this is a slight incompatibility issue with the ARP gate.
> Since the MiniBrute delivers 12V could it damage my eurorack
> envelopes since they seem to be expecting a 5V trigger?
>
> Also, one of the switches of the DT is broken. Where can I buy
> one for replacement ?
>
>
> Regards,
> Phil

A-100 modules cannot be damaged with a +12V gate signal (but I cannot speak
for other manufacturers). As a rule nothing can be damaged in the A-100 as
long as the signals (audio or gate or clock or control voltages) are
within -12V and +12V (again I cannot speak for other manufacturers). There
are only 3 exceptions: the old versions of A-148, A-150 and A-151
(manufactured before 2004). Details are available on the FAQ page of our
website (A-100: "Malfunction of A-150 or A-151 with voltages above +8V or
below -8V"). A-148, A-150 and A-151 manufactured later than 2004 do not have
these limitations.

Please ask the Doepfer representative in your country for the Dark Time
spare part.

Best wishes
Dieter Doepfer

Re: AW: [Doepfer_a100] Dark Time low gate out signal

2013-10-01 by Phil a

Thanks for your reply.

Regarding the switch, so sad for such tiny orders there is no shop online. It will take at least 2 weeks for my local representative to get a shipment from your offices and probably 1 additional week for the switch to arrive here...

Regards,
Phil

Show quoted textHide quoted text

On Tue, Oct 1, 2013 at 5:04 PM, <yahoo@doepfer.de> wrote:

> Hi,
>
> I heard from Arturia that the Minibrute has a 12V gate output, so
> it seems that this is enough for the ARP.
> I tried the DT on some eurorack envelopes and it worked properly.
> So I guess this is a slight incompatibility issue with the ARP gate.
> Since the MiniBrute delivers 12V could it damage my eurorack
> envelopes since they seem to be expecting a 5V trigger?
>
> Also, one of the switches of the DT is broken. Where can I buy
> one for replacement ?
>
>
> Regards,
> Phil

A-100 modules cannot be damaged with a +12V gate signal (but I cannot speak
for other manufacturers). As a rule nothing can be damaged in the A-100 as
long as the signals (audio or gate or clock or control voltages) are
within -12V and +12V (again I cannot speak for other manufacturers). There
are only 3 exceptions: the old versions of A-148, A-150 and A-151
(manufactured before 2004). Details are available on the FAQ page of our
website (A-100: "Malfunction of A-150 or A-151 with voltages above +8V or
below -8V"). A-148, A-150 and A-151 manufactured later than 2004 do not have
these limitations.

Please ask the Doepfer representative in your country for the Dark Time
spare part.

Best wishes
Dieter Doepfer

------------------------------------

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AW: AW: [Doepfer_a100] Dark Time low gate out signal

2013-10-01 by yahoo@doepfer.de

> Regarding the switch, so sad for such tiny orders there is no
> shop online. It will take at least 2 weeks for my local
> representative to get a shipment from your offices and probably 1
> additional week for the switch to arrive here...
>
> Regards,
> Phil

It depends upon your location which I don't know. Within Europe it should be
faster but overseas you are right. The shipping charges would be a multiple
of the switch price. But it's a standard switch manufactured by Salecom and
the order no. is T8014-SECQ-E-H. Maybe it's available from an electronic
shop in your country. It needs not to be exactly the switch from this
manufacturer. Any other three position toggle switch with the same
dimensions will work too.
I'd recommend to replace the switch yourself only if you are really
experienced with desoldering/soldering parts from double sided boards and
have suitable tools. Otherwise you may damage the the unit.

Best wishes
Dieter Doepfer

Re: AW: [Doepfer_a100] Dark Time low gate out signal

2013-10-01 by Phil a

I'm in France but I'm talking from experience, that's how long it will take unfortunately.

Thanks for the reference of the switch I will see if I can find it.

In case anyone on the list have one for spare and would be willing to ship one to me I would be very thankful. I would paypal upfront of course.

Regards,
Phil

Show quoted textHide quoted text

On Tue, Oct 1, 2013 at 5:21 PM, <yahoo@doepfer.de> wrote:

> Regarding the switch, so sad for such tiny orders there is no
> shop online. It will take at least 2 weeks for my local
> representative to get a shipment from your offices and probably 1
> additional week for the switch to arrive here...
>
> Regards,
> Phil

It depends upon your location which I don't know. Within Europe it should be
faster but overseas you are right. The shipping charges would be a multiple
of the switch price. But it's a standard switch manufactured by Salecom and
the order no. is T8014-SECQ-E-H. Maybe it's available from an electronic
shop in your country. It needs not to be exactly the switch from this
manufacturer. Any other three position toggle switch with the same
dimensions will work too.
I'd recommend to replace the switch yourself only if you are really
experienced with desoldering/soldering parts from double sided boards and
have suitable tools. Otherwise you may damage the the unit.

Best wishes
Dieter Doepfer

AW: AW: [Doepfer_a100] Dark Time low gate out signal

2013-10-02 by yahoo@doepfer.de

> I'm in France but I'm talking from experience, that's how long it
> will take unfortunately.
> Thanks for the reference of the switch I will see if I can find it.
> In case anyone on the list have one for spare and would be
> willing to ship one to me I would be very thankful. I would
> paypal upfront of course.
>
>
> Regards,
> Phil

Please send me your address off list and we will send you a replacement
switch for free.

Best wishes
Dieter Doepfer

Re: AW: [Doepfer_a100] Dark Time low gate out signal

2013-10-02 by Phil a

Thanks for your understanding. To which email address should I send it off-list then ?

Regards,
Phil

Show quoted textHide quoted text

On Wed, Oct 2, 2013 at 9:04 AM, <yahoo@doepfer.de> wrote:

> I'm in France but I'm talking from experience, that's how long it
> will take unfortunately.
> Thanks for the reference of the switch I will see if I can find it.
> In case anyone on the list have one for spare and would be
> willing to ship one to me I would be very thankful. I would
> paypal upfront of course.
>
>
> Regards,
> Phil

Please send me your address off list and we will send you a replacement
switch for free.

Best wishes
Dieter Doepfer

------------------------------------

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AW: AW: [Doepfer_a100] Dark Time low gate out signal

2013-10-02 by yahoo@doepfer.de

yahoo@doepfer.de or hardware@doepfer.de

Best wishes
Dieter Doepfer

Show quoted textHide quoted text

> -----Ursprüngliche Nachricht-----
> Von: Doepfer_a100@yahoogroups.com
> [mailto:Doepfer_a100@yahoogroups.com]Im Auftrag von Phil a
> Gesendet: Mittwoch, 2. Oktober 2013 12:19
> An: doepfer_a100
> Betreff: Re: AW: [Doepfer_a100] Dark Time low gate out signal
>
>
>
>
>
> Thanks for your understanding. To which email address should I
> send it off-list then ?
>
>
> Regards,
> Phil
>
>
> On Wed, Oct 2, 2013 at 9:04 AM, <yahoo@doepfer.de> wrote:
>
> > I'm in France but I'm talking from experience, that's how long it
> > will take unfortunately.
> > Thanks for the reference of the switch I will see if I can find it.
> > In case anyone on the list have one for spare and would be
> > willing to ship one to me I would be very thankful. I would
> > paypal upfront of course.
> >
> >
> > Regards,
> > Phil
>
> Please send me your address off list and we will send you a replacement
> switch for free.
>
> Best wishes
> Dieter Doepfer
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>