Homebrew PCBs

Several people have mentioned drill presses lately...

Just thought I would share one of mine..

I use a hand mini drill and judge theholes by eye, using 0.85 mm 
carbide bits at about 10,000 rpm.  I think I tend to breal about 1 
bit in every 5,000 holes.

However, I have a CNC micro mill that I can use for drilling,  scan 
the actual circuit board and software does the rest..  that uses the 
same 0.85mm carbide bits at around 30,000 rpm

Finally my wife wanted to do some drilling but was unable to hold 
the drill steady enough so I threw together this little press in 
about an hour...  

Its in the photos section under Spiyda

http://photos.groups.yahoo.com/group/homebrew_pcbs/lst?.dir=/Spiyda

The main features of note are ...  it cost less than $3 (+ the drill)

It is foot operated and adjustable (the black cable is tied above 
the top board and has a terminal block under the second board.. the 
cable then continus to the floor, where it is tied 2" above the 
floor to a 2" x 1")

There is an old valve spring between the boards to push the drill 
back up...

The hinge is a bit of old piano hinge but anything would do.

The boards are about third or fourth hand..  they have previously 
been used a s a drawing board, a microwave support and a cutting 
board.

The weird thing about this drill press is that it actually works 
quite well.

It is more accurate than by hand and as it is foot operated, you 
have two hands free for the board !

Chris

nice example of a pivoting drill press, i would prefer it over a dremel  
stand any day for PCBs.

I'm amazed you can hand-drill with carbide, even 0.85, and get any  
significant mileage out of it, you must have a very steady hand. Ever  
thought of learning how to tinker with peoples internal workings? I gather  
those doctors get neat pay out of it ;-)

One thing i found very useful on my pivoting press is a screw as a stop  
very close to the drill bit. This will help hold down the board in the  
critical moment when the drill breaks through - has saved me a few drills  
already.
The foot activation seems neat, righ now i have mine balanced with a  
counterweight and use the back of my hand to lift it, so i can use all  
fingers to help positioning the PCB.

ST

On Mon, 12 Dec 2005 18:13:29 +0100, Chris Horne <chris@...> wrote:

> Several people have mentioned drill presses lately...
>
> Just thought I would share one of mine..
>
> I use a hand mini drill and judge theholes by eye, using 0.85 mm
> carbide bits at about 10,000 rpm.  I think I tend to breal about 1
> bit in every 5,000 holes.
>
> However, I have a CNC micro mill that I can use for drilling,  scan
> the actual circuit board and software does the rest..  that uses the
> same 0.85mm carbide bits at around 30,000 rpm
>
> Finally my wife wanted to do some drilling but was unable to hold
> the drill steady enough so I threw together this little press in
> about an hour...
>
> Its in the photos section under Spiyda
>
> http://photos.groups.yahoo.com/group/homebrew_pcbs/lst?.dir=/Spiyda
>
> The main features of note are ...  it cost less than $3 (+ the drill)
>
> It is foot operated and adjustable (the black cable is tied above
> the top board and has a terminal block under the second board.. the
> cable then continus to the floor, where it is tied 2" above the
> floor to a 2" x 1")
>
> There is an old valve spring between the boards to push the drill
> back up...
>
> The hinge is a bit of old piano hinge but anything would do.
>
> The boards are about third or fourth hand..  they have previously
> been used a s a drawing board, a microwave support and a cutting
> board.
>
> The weird thing about this drill press is that it actually works
> quite well.
>
> It is more accurate than by hand and as it is foot operated, you
> have two hands free for the board !
>
> Chris
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Be sure to visit the group home and check for new Links, Files, and  
> Photos:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Homebrew_PCBs
>
> If Files or Photos are running short of space, post them here:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Homebrew_PCBs_Archives/
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>

Yeah, the foot thing is really cool. I'll probably be doing that even 
if I don't keep using the small press. The handles are always on the 
right, so I have to use my left for the board. :( I've seen some 
really nice cable operated foot controls on biscuit joiners (like 
bicycle brake cable), but a pulley system would be fine for me.

With me, it has helped to keep the press table up high. My last 
drilling was with the table almost at eye level and the surface the 
press was on was around elbow height, so I could set my right elbow on 
a block of padded styrofoam with my forearm up around 90 degrees and 
just drop the quill with an inch or two of finger pull (I keep the tip 
as close to the board as possible). I've also kept one of the three 
handles removed for extra space and the table stays off to the left, 
with a "cover table" clamped to it that extends over to the right. 
This allows me to get right up on the drill area while I work (with 
eye-wear of course). The last drilling was at a standing position.

I see that there's plans for attaching Dremels,etc. to other press 
type stuff. The clamping doesn't seem that difficult and there may be 
something "motorless" out there really solid and simple. I've also got 
a really small cheap router (Black&Decker) which I only use for 
plastics. The motor unit is almost as small as a laminate trimmer, 
plus I've got an external speed control. I might look into that.

I'd like to see some additional pictures of that table if you've got 
the time (mostly the lift and lower parts).

I hadn't considered the bit stop thing, but I usually have a 
replaceable backer board under the PCB. I may try that (assuming it 
doesn't obstruct the view). I've got actual bit stops here around that 
size.

                                  -Take Care
George

PS- I don't have very good luck with hand drilling. I think I've 
broken more stuff that way. I usually only resort to that for trying 
to widen a few holes for stuff that has larger legs.

Another thought-

If anyone could think of some type of readily available metal 
standoffs which could slide up and down a greased chrome pipe,etc., 
that would be simple as crap. I've got drum hardware here which might 
be able to hold the main tube down (like bass drum tomtom mounts), but 
you could probably do a two piece wooden clamp around the tube and 
screw it down to the work surface. The top could also be strengthened 
by a wood rig. I've seen guys use a homemade pulley system on a radial 
saw, with counter weights hanging from the far end to return the saw 
to the back.

-George

PS- I know the Dremel presses are cheap as dirt. ;)

No sliding system can be built with the same low play as the pivoting  
press has, as easily.
A pivoting press can probably be built in the time it takes to find  
suitable rails and sliding parts, or ordering expensive linear bearings.

ST

On Mon, 12 Dec 2005 21:57:30 +0100, soffee83 <soffee83@...> wrote:

> Another thought-
>
>
> If anyone could think of some type of readily available metal
>
> standoffs which could slide up and down a greased chrome pipe,etc.,
>
> that would be simple as crap. I've got drum hardware here which might
>
> be able to hold the main tube down (like bass drum tomtom mounts), but
>
> you could probably do a two piece wooden clamp around the tube and
>
> screw it down to the work surface. The top could also be strengthened
>
> by a wood rig. I've seen guys use a homemade pulley system on a radial
>
> saw, with counter weights hanging from the far end to return the saw
>
> to the back.
>
>
> -George
>
>
> PS- I know the Dremel presses are cheap as dirt.
>

Here's some quick sketches if anyone could make sense out of them (the 
proportions are probably screwed up) -->

The press-

http://tinyurl.com/cgc5x

The holders-

http://tinyurl.com/cz6av

This would be with wooden standoffs. There's also no foot cable shown. 
I guess that would take an additional pulley or screw eye mounted to 
the base or table to pull downward on the drill. 

I'm sort of guessing that wooden holes in the holders would have an 
acceptable amount of play (maybe a harder wood). I've used that to 
spin a drum with just pine, for 1" pipe, and greased the holes. It 
held up fine and even had to spin. I think with more than one screw 
eye and cable attached to the upper quill part, it would keep too much 
unbalanced pull from tilting the holders and screwing things up 
(hopefully). An extra thick holder (laminated layers) might also help. 
 ---- don't know?

-George

I agree completly.  The drilling depth (stroke) required for PCBs is 
less than 1/4" which is fine for a pivoting press as long as the 
pivot point is back a bit from the tool center line.  This sort of 
rig only requires a moderate amount of precision in construction and 
about the only "critical" item is the hinges - you wouldn't want 
sloppy ones.  But otherwise, it don't get much simpler than that.

If the drilling stroke was an inch or so - even a 1/2", problems 
could crop up.

Chris



--- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, "Stefan Trethan" 
<stefan_trethan@g...> wrote:
>
> No sliding system can be built with the same low play as the 
pivoting  
> press has, as easily.
> A pivoting press can probably be built in the time it takes to 
find  
> suitable rails and sliding parts, or ordering expensive linear 
bearings.
> 
> ST
> 
> 
> On Mon, 12 Dec 2005 21:57:30 +0100, soffee83 <soffee83@y...> wrote:
> 
> > Another thought-
> >
> >
> > If anyone could think of some type of readily available metal
> >
> > standoffs which could slide up and down a greased chrome 
pipe,etc.,
> >
> > that would be simple as crap. I've got drum hardware here which 
might
> >
> > be able to hold the main tube down (like bass drum tomtom 
mounts), but
> >
> > you could probably do a two piece wooden clamp around the tube 
and
> >
> > screw it down to the work surface. The top could also be 
strengthened
> >
> > by a wood rig. I've seen guys use a homemade pulley system on a 
radial
> >
> > saw, with counter weights hanging from the far end to return the 
saw

> >
> > to the back.
> >
> >
> > -George
> >
> >
> > PS- I know the Dremel presses are cheap as dirt.
> >
>

http://cgi.ebay.com/5-THK-RSR-12M-Miniature-Linear-Carriage-Rail-Set-CNC_W0QQitemZ7571078254QQcategoryZ55826QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem
http://cgi.ebay.com/THK-RSR9MK-Miniature-Linear-Carriage-and-Rail-CNC_W0QQitemZ7571078961QQcategoryZ55826QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem
http://cgi.ebay.com/THK-RSR9-Linear-Motion-Slides-Rail-CNC-4-5-inch_W0QQitemZ7572058619QQcategoryZ42899QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem


----- Original Message ----- 

From: "Stefan Trethan" <stefan_trethan@...>
To: <Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Monday, December 12, 2005 3:31 PM
Subject: Re: [Homebrew_PCBs] Re: 1 hour drill press


> No sliding system can be built with the same low play as the pivoting
> press has, as easily.
> A pivoting press can probably be built in the time it takes to find
> suitable rails and sliding parts, or ordering expensive linear bearings.

www.mcmaster.com the place isn't free but you can have more fun than a 
barrel of monkeys designing things you'll never build or even building or 
(gasp!) using them!

have fun

jim

Pardon the dumb question, but what is a pivoting press?

It sounds like a hinge type of carrier instead of vertical movement.  
(?)

Sounds scary. I have enough trouble with double sided stuff not lining 
up top to bottom. 

I still think that with extra thick wooden standoffs on more than one 
"large enough" pipe, or more than one at the top and bottom of the 
drilling unit, plus a "centered" upward pull, it shouldn't have enough 
play to screw up most previously etched holes. I do have a fair amount 
of wood tools here, so it may be more of a bitch without them. The 
only critical parts are really the two holes that the pipes ride 
through, and they would be done with a 1" holesaw or something anyway. 
The rest would only have to be screw eyes and junk, and the shapes 
could be whatever's easiest. I think with a piloted straight cutter in 
a router, I could clone and mass-cut a few standoffs without much 
hassle. If you did three of the standoff triangles glued together, 
you'd have a full 2.25" of support along the pipes. It doesn't seem 
like it could move around that much, but this is for sort of "pre-
piloted" holes.

Again this is "paper theory" and most of us know how that often goes 
after it hits earth. ;)  If I can control my compulsive buying habits 
for a bit and don't end up with Dremel press, I may try a simple pine 
one, to see how it performs. I've got Christmas presents to build, so 
if it looks like too much time, it's out.

                              -Take Care
George

                                   -George

I'm glad to have started a few comments..
I think I ought to clarify a few points...

I'm not the first to build this type of pivot drill press, but I 
reckon I probably built is faster than most.

The 1 hour pivot press as I showed in the picture is, (apart from 
CNC) the best all round way I have found for drilling pcbs..  as 
Stefan said, the limited vertical movement required means that the 
pivot type is ideal.  I have previously tried all manner of devices 
based on off the shelf machines, but none of them can compare to the 
speed and accuracy of this concoction.

I will add some more pictures. in a few minutes.

No accuracy is required in construction, I didn't measure anything

The only parts I bought were the plastic pipe clips for the tool 
mount.

I really did start from scratch and build this in less than 1 hour, 
no plans, no sketches, just a jigsaw (I'm lazy) and a few bits and 
bobs

I threw it together, not knowing if it would be successfiul because 
my wife wanted to drill some boards and i couldn't afford the 
wastage from an unskilled driller  :-)  (I'll probably suffer for 
that)

The repeatability of the tool is excellent, and, what is even more 
important is that the flexibility of the components means that the 
drill bit will find the centre of the etched pad...  in other words, 
if you are off by less than 0.5 mm , the bit will centre itself into 
the hole!

I have a few minor wrist and shoulder problems, and I can drill 3 or 
4 times as many holes with this as I can do on a conventional press 
and 10 times as many as I can do by hand. This is due to the foot 
operation (heel actually)

If it wasn't so cheap to put together I would think about producing 
them for sale!  They are so simple to make, anyone could do it.

The secret is in the fine tuning...  on the main picture, the black 
cable that connects to the foot pedal also controls the travel...  
underneath is part of a cable terminal block which allows 
adjustment. Move the drill bit down to 1mm above the board, slide 
the terminal block up and lock in position.

If you are not CNCing boards, and you haven't tried one of these...  
it is well worth it...  what have you got to lose!

Of course you can always build it better, but this is a case of just 
good enough is plenty good enough!

cheers

Chris  (-=Spiyda=-)

 --- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, "Chris Horne" <chris@s...> 
wrote:
>
> Several people have mentioned drill presses lately...
> 
> Just thought I would share one of mine..
> 
> I use a hand mini drill and judge theholes by eye, using 0.85 mm 
> carbide bits at about 10,000 rpm.  I think I tend to breal about 1 
> bit in every 5,000 holes.
> 
> However, I have a CNC micro mill that I can use for drilling,  
scan 
> the actual circuit board and software does the rest..  that uses 
the 
> same 0.85mm carbide bits at around 30,000 rpm
> 
> Finally my wife wanted to do some drilling but was unable to hold 
> the drill steady enough so I threw together this little press in 
> about an hour...  
> 
> Its in the photos section under Spiyda
> 
> http://photos.groups.yahoo.com/group/homebrew_pcbs/lst?.dir=/Spiyda
> 
> The main features of note are ...  it cost less than $3 (+ the 
drill)
> 
> It is foot operated and adjustable (the black cable is tied above 
> the top board and has a terminal block under the second board.. 
the 

> cable then continus to the floor, where it is tied 2" above the 
> floor to a 2" x 1")
> 
> There is an old valve spring between the boards to push the drill 
> back up...
> 
> The hinge is a bit of old piano hinge but anything would do.
> 
> The boards are about third or fourth hand..  they have previously 
> been used a s a drawing board, a microwave support and a cutting 
> board.
> 
> The weird thing about this drill press is that it actually works 
> quite well.
> 
> It is more accurate than by hand and as it is foot operated, you 
> have two hands free for the board !
> 
> Chris
>

Here are a couple refinements to the kindergarten sketch-

Press-

http://tinyurl.com/98w3p

That candystriped support at the back could be a fat dowel or 
whatever, attached to the base to stiffen up the guide bars.

Holders-

http://tinyurl.com/ccpp3

It could maybe be less complicated than that and still work (paper 
theory again). The front, drill holding part of the standoffs could 
just be pipe clamps or a metal strap. The holders could also maybe be 
cut out of a single triangular piece with the drill mount hole already 
in it, then you could just saw the front off to get the two pieces. 
Also, all the pulley crap could just be large screw eyes.

PS- I've probably spent more time typing and sketching than it might 
have taken to make the damn thing. ;)

-George

I forgot to mention that the short length of copper tube is to stop 
the spring from wandering off... 

All that holds it in place is that it is slipped over a woodscrew that 
is screwed down into the baseboard, then the spring is dropped over 
that.

Chris  (-=Spiyda=-)

--- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, "Chris Horne" <chris@s...> wrote:

>
> I'm glad to have started a few comments..
> I think I ought to clarify a few points...
>

George,

I did some quick maths and on my jury rig, the alignment from one 
side of the board to the other will be within 0.01 of a millimetre 
at worst, and considering my eyes are only accurate to about 0.25mm 
when drilling, I don't think it really comes into the equation.

I have the drill bit sitting about 1 - 2 mm above the board when the 
pedal is not pressed, and it projects through the board about 1mm at 
full downstroke..  so total travel is only about 5 mm

Chris

 --- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, "soffee83" <soffee83@y...> 
wrote:
>
> Pardon the dumb question, but what is a pivoting press?
> 
> It sounds like a hinge type of carrier instead of vertical 
movement.  
> (?)
> 
> Sounds scary. I have enough trouble with double sided stuff not 
lining 
> up top to bottom. 
> 
> I still think that with extra thick wooden standoffs on more than 
one 
> "large enough" pipe, or more than one at the top and bottom of the 
> drilling unit, plus a "centered" upward pull, it shouldn't have 
enough 
> play to screw up most previously etched holes. I do have a fair 
amount 
> of wood tools here, so it may be more of a bitch without them. The 
> only critical parts are really the two holes that the pipes ride 
> through, and they would be done with a 1" holesaw or something 
anyway. 
> The rest would only have to be screw eyes and junk, and the shapes 
> could be whatever's easiest. I think with a piloted straight 
cutter in 
> a router, I could clone and mass-cut a few standoffs without much 
> hassle. If you did three of the standoff triangles glued together, 
> you'd have a full 2.25" of support along the pipes. It doesn't 
seem 
> like it could move around that much, but this is for sort of "pre-
> piloted" holes.
> 
> Again this is "paper theory" and most of us know how that often 
goes 
> after it hits earth. ;)  If I can control my compulsive buying 
habits 
> for a bit and don't end up with Dremel press, I may try a simple 
pine 
> one, to see how it performs. I've got Christmas presents to build, 
so 

> if it looks like too much time, it's out.
> 
>                               -Take Care
> George
> 
>                                    -George
>

In a message dated 12/12/2005 3:51:25 P.M. Central Standard Time,  
lcdpublishing@... writes:

The  drilling depth (stroke) required for PCBs is less than 1/4" which is 
fine for  a pivoting press as long as the 
pivot point is back a bit from the tool  center line.<<
Yes, but what IS the distance between the pivot-axis and the  drill-axis?  30 
cm?  More?  Anyone "in here" have a source for  fine 400 Hz "capacitor-run" 
or three-phase "aircraft instrument" motors that  spin @ 24,000 RPM?  I found 
one years back at a "junk shop" that was only  12,000 RPM, but it does PCB 
drilling fine.  Hadda build my OWN 400 Hz  source.  Hassle!  But no motor-brushes, 
sparks, "buzz",  etc.         Jan Rowland 

 


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

lcdpublishing wrote:

>rig only requires a moderate amount of precision in construction and 
>about the only "critical" item is the hinges - you wouldn't want 
>sloppy ones.  But otherwise, it don't get much simpler than that.
>
>  
>
  Intersection of two areas of free play that are barely touching is 
reasonably close to a point or line.  A couple of cheap ($.88 last time) 
hinges from Lowes, slightly misaligned to one another so each excludes 
the other's play, works fine.  Even when you use the good drawer rails 
for linear motion, it's best to do the same and get rid of most of their 
free play..  Got too much free play when aligned exactly parallel, then 
don't align them parallel.. :)

Alan

Chris, just noticed the new pictures and read the descriptions. 
Thanks! I wouldn't have guessed any of that stuff from the first 
picture. 

The extended downward-pull bar and the spring to return upward are 
great (and easy). Even if I try a vertical bar thing, I like those.

One other thing I was just thinking about wooden glides on pipes, if 
anyone ever has to do such a thing, is that maybe a pair of pipes 
would be the tightest fit and hold up much longer. If you could find 
two pipes that could telescope, one within the other, like for an old 
tripod stand, you could slice a segment out of the larger one and glue 
it into a hole in whatever you needed to slide, that way you'd get 
metal on metal (the paper theory just keeps on coming). I also do some 
fiberglass here. I could maybe just grease up and wrap the "pipe of 
choice" a few times to form a nice FG tube. I've had to do that 
sliding hole thing a couple times for stuff. I've also used a piece of 
thin aluminum pipe and cut a slit along it, so that it could stretch 
around a piece of it's same original diameter. Again, the wood holes 
did hold up just fine, and the sizes were all standard bit/pipe size.

-George

In a message dated 12/12/2005 5:39:40 P.M. Central Standard Time,  
chris@... writes:

because  my wife wanted to drill some boards <<
Wot, she does PCB's?  WOW!  Wanna talk  trade???  LOL!!!

 


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

--- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, JanRwl@A... wrote:
>Hassle!  But no motor-brushes,sparks, "buzz",  etc.

I was meaning to mention that I wasn't looking forward to the 
recommended speed change thing.:(

With the press on low speed like it's been, and the belt-cover top 
flipped open, it puts off a mild soothing "rumble", which is great for 
that tedious million hole stuff. I can't imagine sitting in front of 
my B&D router for that. I'm not even sure about that length of "Dremel 
time" now that I think about it.

I found three raw 120VAC motors here, but they're gigantic. They're 
also a lot slower. I use one in a drum spinning thing I made. Is the 
thing you're talking about small enough to mount directly in a 
travelling carriage? Is it noisy, and does it take a chuck attachment 
directly?

Good point also on the pivot to bit distance and it's "skew" factor.

Not to change the subject, but I was also wondering how bad it is to 
sink the bits further up in a chuck to shorten the amount of 
unsupported bit material? I fear that jaws gripping the spiralled part 
of it is not good. Like everyone's saying though, we really only need 
a little more than the board thickness.

                    -George

Well, thats the first measurement on the whole job! 
the distance from the drill bit to the hinge is 37 cm

Chris

--- In Homebrew_PCBs@...m, JanRwl@A... wrote:
>
> In a message dated 12/12/2005 3:51:25 P.M. Central Standard Time,  
> lcdpublishing@y... writes:
> 
> The  drilling depth (stroke) required for PCBs is less than 1/4" 
which is 
> fine for  a pivoting press as long as the 
> pivot point is back a bit from the tool  center line.<<
> Yes, but what IS the distance between the pivot-axis and the  
drill-axis?  30 
> cm?  More?  Anyone "in here" have a source for  fine 400 
Hz "capacitor-run" 
> or three-phase "aircraft instrument" motors that  spin @ 24,000 
RPM?  I found 
> one years back at a "junk shop" that was only  12,000 RPM, but it 
does PCB 
> drilling fine.  Hadda build my OWN 400 Hz  source.  Hassle!  But 
no motor-brushes, 

> sparks, "buzz",  etc.         Jan Rowland 
> 
>  
> 
> 
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

George,

If I was building with a big motor, i would make the pcb move up and 
down rather than the motor..

its only a few millimetres so i don't think it would affect your 
grip on the board

Chris

(ps  i'm kind of known for lateral thinking  :-)

--- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, "soffee83" <soffee83@y...> 
wrote:
>
> --- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, JanRwl@A... wrote:
> >Hassle!  But no motor-brushes,sparks, "buzz",  etc.
> 
> I was meaning to mention that I wasn't looking forward to the 
> recommended speed change thing.:(
> 
> With the press on low speed like it's been, and the belt-cover top 
> flipped open, it puts off a mild soothing "rumble", which is great 
for 
> that tedious million hole stuff. I can't imagine sitting in front 
of 
> my B&D router for that. I'm not even sure about that length 
of "Dremel 
> time" now that I think about it.
> 
> I found three raw 120VAC motors here, but they're gigantic. 
They're 
> also a lot slower. I use one in a drum spinning thing I made. Is 
the 
> thing you're talking about small enough to mount directly in a 
> travelling carriage? Is it noisy, and does it take a chuck 
attachment 
> directly?
> 
> Good point also on the pivot to bit distance and it's "skew" 
factor.
> 
> Not to change the subject, but I was also wondering how bad it is 
to 
> sink the bits further up in a chuck to shorten the amount of 
> unsupported bit material? I fear that jaws gripping the spiralled 
part 
> of it is not good. Like everyone's saying though, we really only 
need 

> a little more than the board thickness.
> 
>                     -George
>

--- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, "Chris Horne" <chris@s...> 
wrote:
> If I was building with a big motor, i would make the pcb move up and 
> down rather than the motor..

No, I don't think I would dare do anything small with these monsters. 
They do have an assortment of pulley/drive wheels here, so I guess 
they could be geared up faster and maybe the motor could wall mount or 
something behind the drill with a belt, but I have no idea how to get 
a chuck mounted on a spindle. That's getting way too complicated for 
what I need. A cheap second Dremel or generic wouldn't even be bad 
just to keep mounted in the harness. I've got that handle/cable thing 
with mine too, but I've never tried to use it.

What would anyone guess does have a "quiet" motor for something like 
this? I think even my Dremel sounds like a swarm of bees on the higher 
settings. It seems risky on motor wear running for the duration of 
longer PCB drilling too. Those big motors here are about as quiet as 
my press (good).

BTW- Are any of the generic Dremel-press rigs that the home stores are 
currently carrying comparable to the legendary older ones. 

                                -George

I don't have a dremel, just the minicraft drill
surprisingly it is now over 10 years old, and as well as drilling 
100s of thousands of pcb holes, it has drilled over 80 thousand 4mm 
holes in steel and plastic about 2.5 mm thick as i used it as part 
of a production tool in my previous business.

It seems to be incredibly robust.

I have mentioned before that the proxxon collet chucks are 500% 
better than the dremmel ones, i don't know about the motors though.

I have heard it said that the best motors for this application are 
the brushless motors used for model aircraft.
However, you need an appropriate motor speed controller to run them.
So for me the price outweighs the noise from the current setup.

Chris-- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, "soffee83" <soffee83@y...> 
wrote:
>
> --- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, "Chris Horne" <chris@s...> 
> wrote:
> > If I was building with a big motor, i would make the pcb move up 
and 
> > down rather than the motor..
> 
> No, I don't think I would dare do anything small with these 
monsters. 
> They do have an assortment of pulley/drive wheels here, so I guess 
> they could be geared up faster and maybe the motor could wall 
mount or 
> something behind the drill with a belt, but I have no idea how to 
get 
> a chuck mounted on a spindle. That's getting way too complicated 
for 
> what I need. A cheap second Dremel or generic wouldn't even be bad 
> just to keep mounted in the harness. I've got that handle/cable 
thing 
> with mine too, but I've never tried to use it.
> 
> What would anyone guess does have a "quiet" motor for something 
like 
> this? I think even my Dremel sounds like a swarm of bees on the 
higher 
> settings. It seems risky on motor wear running for the duration of 
> longer PCB drilling too. Those big motors here are about as quiet 
as 
> my press (good).
> 
> BTW- Are any of the generic Dremel-press rigs that the home stores 
are 

> currently carrying comparable to the legendary older ones. 
> 
>                                 -George
>

soffee83 wrote:

>What would anyone guess does have a "quiet" motor for something like 
>this? I think even my Dremel sounds like a swarm of bees on the higher 
>settings. It seems risky on motor wear running for the duration of 
>longer PCB drilling too. Those big motors here are about as quiet as 
>my press (good).
>
>  
>

  1st, the Walmart generic I have that's grey is better than a stock 
dremel, for smoothness and sound level and play in general.  Good for 
$18 I paid.

  2nd, brushless helps.  Brushless fan motors are good here, take the 
fan off and most are very quiet running.  Need to find one with good 
high speed so will have bearings that can handle it, or buy VHQ 
replacement bearings for one.  I have several candidates on hand, but so 
far the Dremel isn't yet annoying enough to drive me to doing it..  
Leave the Dremel on low speed, come back 3X later, your stuff is still 
cut/drilled, yet you had far less peak noise..  :)

Alan

I have about 8-10 days until my boards get back, which need some 
internal routes, so time to get my CNC back up and running and tuned 
up.  Since it could stand a clean and some more mechanical fine tuning, 
I will deconstruct it and take pictures and measurements and write up a 
guide on how to assemble and align it easily and properly.  $75-ish for 
the mechanics not including motors and driver, metal in basically all 
critical areas, parts all from Lowes, and only takes a drill and the 
ability to cut ends off etc, straight lines are from the metal parts not 
cuts.  Haven't tweaked it to 100% in all ways, but it's pretty good 
already and I think almost anyone could get this built fairly well 
without a ton of tools or time.  In fact, I think I'll get going on it 
some tonight, should have pictures within the next day or two.

Alan

--- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, "Chris Horne" <chris@s...> 
wrote:
> I don't have a dremel, just the minicraft drill
-snipped-
> It seems to be incredibly robust.

That's not surprising. I went and looked at Evan's link yesterday and 
they had some really nice looking stuff. Some of the "googled" 
Minicraft machines I saw looked about like machine shop quality.

Wonderful! Where will you post the pic? I'll be interested to see how you do 
it.

Can you list the parts you have in this CNC?

----- Original Message ----- 

From: "Alan King" <alan@...>
To: <Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Tuesday, December 13, 2005 10:20 AM
Subject: [Homebrew_PCBs] My CNC


>  I have about 8-10 days until my boards get back, which need some
> internal routes, so time to get my CNC back up and running and tuned
> up.  Since it could stand a clean and some more mechanical fine tuning,
> I will deconstruct it and take pictures and measurements and write up a
> guide on how to assemble and align it easily and properly.  $75-ish for
> the mechanics not including motors and driver, metal in basically all
> critical areas, parts all from Lowes, and only takes a drill and the
> ability to cut ends off etc, straight lines are from the metal parts not
> cuts.  Haven't tweaked it to 100% in all ways, but it's pretty good
> already and I think almost anyone could get this built fairly well
> without a ton of tools or time.  In fact, I think I'll get going on it
> some tonight, should have pictures within the next day or two.
>
> Alan
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Be sure to visit the group home and check for new Links, Files, and 
> Photos:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Homebrew_PCBs
>
> If Files or Photos are running short of space, post them here:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Homebrew_PCBs_Archives/
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
>

PPC wrote:

>Wonderful! Where will you post the pic? I'll be interested to see how you do 
>it.
>
>Can you list the parts you have in this CNC?
>
>  
>
  Well going to write and list things as I go along, so it'll be a day 
or two, and sticking it up on my webspace..

Really is:

1  8' x 1.5" x 1.5" aluminium angle rail at around $20.
6 rails at $36.  (3 two packs, and maybe a bit more money by now..)
2 metal electrical boxes at $6-8.
Plastic electrical boxes for motor mounts.
Wood base at about 24" by 18" for the base, and wood plate for the tool 
mounting plate.

  Rest is little stuff like nuts and bolts, angle brackets etc.  Main 
goal was fairly decent machine without machining either wood or metal, 
and almost all metal, so no relying on wood parts for anything 
important.  Really I'm sure it could be greatly improved, especially in 
the traveling nut to rail connections.  My initial crude hacks just to 
get it up and running for test worked well enough that I never even gave 
it a proper second look for better common parts at the hardware store 
etc.  Couldn't get rebuilding it when it already worked ok for what I 
wanted at the time.

  First one takes a few days, after that you could probably build the 
second in an afternoon or less.  Once going, I could probably build them 
at the rate of 1/hour or faster, thought about selling them on Ebay 
myself.  Still might do so even, if I get back into it.  For now though 
I have the other products coming, and their price per build time and 
leading into other related products demands my attention, even if they 
won't sell that fast at first.

  Nothing too much special about the machine, other than the work is 
done for how to make it go together and get it aligned.  If I  gave you 
the parts with holes etc as pieces, and no instructions, it'd probably 
take a week or two for most to rearrange things and get it working, and 
have even more trouble making it well.  Several other ways to arrange 
the components of course, but most cut down the work area or have other 
interference problems.  I've already worked it all out for the most part 
over the few weeks it took to get this one ok for use, so you won't have 
to reinvent all the wheels.  I've got to get it up and routing, so it'll 
be coming shortly.

Alan

I have 2 ideeas about homemade drill press:

- car shock absorbers: have zero play, and are verry strong. If I use 
3 of them in triangle arangement...I think I can make hi precision 
component for NASA :-) 
- typewriter machine carriage: allmost zero play. I have a old one, 
verry abused and still have hi precision. 


Adrian

--- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, "adicont2" <adicont2@y...> 
wrote:
> - typewriter machine carriage: allmost zero play

Great, NOW you tell me. ;)
I ripped up a big electric one a while back and just kept the keyboard 
and the rubber roller. I do remember bars like that, with zero-play 
looking inserts and stuff. Oh well.

-George

On Mon, 12 Dec 2005 23:37:40 +0100, soffee83 <soffee83@...> wrote:

> Pardon the dumb question, but what is a pivoting press?
>
>
> It sounds like a hinge type of carrier instead of vertical movement.
>
> (?)
>
>
> Sounds scary. I have enough trouble with double sided stuff not lining
>
> up top to bottom.


The tangential movement is so identcal to a linear one for the 2mm or so  
travel it does not matter. You need to put the hinges back like 40mm and  
you need to set things up so that the tangent is perpendicular to the  
board, and everything will work great.

About your wood sliding thingy.
I think wood would have too much friction (if it is tight). Look at metal  
presses to see how you could improve on it. If you add a second sliding  
block above the first at a distance, and connect the sides of the two via  
plates, the play would be greatly reduced. Otherwise the forces exerted by  
moving the drill will bind the slider, even if it is relatively thick.
I reckon if you used plastic plates like PE or PP cutting boards or  
something, or maybe only line the wood with brass sheet, it could well  
work, but it still is definitely more work than a pivoting press.

I still do not think it is a viable idea, but hey, never listen to the nay  
sayers ;-)

ST

On Tue, 13 Dec 2005 02:51:27 +0100, Alan King <alan@...> wrote:

>
>
>
>   1st, the Walmart generic I have that's grey is better than a stock
>
> dremel, for smoothness and sound level and play in general.  Good for
>
> $18 I paid.
>
>
>   2nd, brushless helps.  Brushless fan motors are good here, take the
>
> fan off and most are very quiet running.  Need to find one with good
>
> high speed so will have bearings that can handle it, or buy VHQ
>
> replacement bearings for one.  I have several candidates on hand, but so
>
> far the Dremel isn't yet annoying enough to drive me to doing it..
>
> Leave the Dremel on low speed, come back 3X later, your stuff is still
>
> cut/drilled, yet you had far less peak noise..
>
>
> Alan
>


The proxxon IB-E is much less noisy than the other tools i had, but still  
quite loud on higher settings.

Brushless is a good idea, after all, brushless motors are not hard to  
build.
But i'd need a spindle with collet and bearings where i could fit my motor  
onto. I don't have a lathe.....


ST

On Tue, 13 Dec 2005 01:20:21 +0100, soffee83 <soffee83@...> wrote:

> Good point also on the pivot to bit distance and it's "skew" factor.
>
>
> Not to change the subject, but I was also wondering how bad it is to
>
> sink the bits further up in a chuck to shorten the amount of
>
> unsupported bit material? I fear that jaws gripping the spiralled part
>
> of it is not good. Like everyone's saying though, we really only need
>
> a little more than the board thickness.
>
>
>                     -George
>


Since the shaft is usually standard size and thus much wider that'd be  
very hard to do.
However, the idea is good. I use a broken bit that did break 2mm down the  
spiral part to enlarge/add holes free-hand. It didn't break again so far.  
I think they'd last much longer if all bits were that short. I guess the  
reason for long bits is many PCB houses drill stacks of boards at once. If  
they break, they usually break right where the thin part starts, only good  
to re-grind as scribe tips.

Maybe one could strengthen the unused spiral part with epoxy or something?

ST

--- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, "soffee83" <soffee83@y...> 
wrote:
>
> --- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, "adicont2" <adicont2@y...> 
> wrote:
> > - typewriter machine carriage: allmost zero play
> 
> Great, NOW you tell me. ;)
> I ripped up a big electric one a while back and just kept the 
keyboard 
> and the rubber roller. I do remember bars like that, with zero-play 
> looking inserts and stuff. Oh well.
> 
> -George
>


Sorry for delay ;)
Think about auto shock absorbers. There is some little shock absorbers 
for car back door (hatch back), or clasical big ones for weels.

Adrian

--- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, "Stefan Trethan" 
<stefan_trethan@g...> wrote:

> Since the shaft is usually standard size and thus much wider that'd 
be  
> very hard to do.
> However, the idea is good. I use a broken bit that did break 2mm 
down the  
> spiral part to enlarge/add holes free-hand. It didn't break again so 
far.  
> I think they'd last much longer if all bits were that short. I guess 
the  
> reason for long bits is many PCB houses drill stacks of boards at 
once. If  
> they break, they usually break right where the thin part starts, 
only good  
> to re-grind as scribe tips.
> 
> Maybe one could strengthen the unused spiral part with epoxy or 
something?
> 
> ST
>




Maybe a little steel tube, like a seringe needle and some epoxy in it.
I will try this.



Adrian

On Tue, 13 Dec 2005 15:02:02 +0100, adicont2 <adicont2@...> wrote:

> Sorry for delay
>
> Think about auto shock absorbers. There is some little shock absorbers
>
> for car back door (hatch back), or clasical big ones for weels.
>
>
> Adrian


But wouldn't you need to drill a hole or something to let the oil out?

ST

The auto shock absorbers seem to be a bit of an
overkill. Besides the effort needed to compress them
is very high.

I would suggest a small rubber ball instead. With the
arm length needed for tangental motion, there would be
plenty of room.
Heavy duty rubber pneumatic cushions are in use don
trucks instead of the standard shock absorbers.

Myc



--- adicont2 <adicont2@...> wrote:

> --- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, "soffee83"
> <soffee83@y...> 
> wrote:
> >
> > --- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, "adicont2"
> <adicont2@y...> 
> > wrote:
> > > - typewriter machine carriage: allmost zero play
> > 
> > Great, NOW you tell me. ;)
> > I ripped up a big electric one a while back and
> just kept the 
> keyboard 
> > and the rubber roller. I do remember bars like
> that, with zero-play 
> > looking inserts and stuff. Oh well.
> > 
> > -George
> >
> 
> 
> Sorry for delay ;)
> Think about auto shock absorbers. There is some
> little shock absorbers 
> for car back door (hatch back), or clasical big ones
> for weels.
> 
> Adrian
> 
> 
> 
> 


__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
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> But wouldn't you need to drill a hole or something to let the oil 
out?
> 
> ST
>


In my knowlege all shock absorbers must have a one way valve inside. 
If you remouve this valve and let all oil out you have a allready made 
press for drilling.
I don't know if all shock absorbers are dismountable. I have a old one 
for car back door and it is. It have no play at all. I mean real zero 
play.


Adrian

I refer to those little shock absorbers for car back door, or even 
normal ones, but consider a haked shock absorber whithout oil inside. 
This whay, the effort needed to compress it is low, and arm lenght can 
be adjusted to minimum (something like 300mm).
I don't know nothing about heavy duty rubber pneumatic cushions. 
Please, can you give me some details, or a link.


Adrian

 
--- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, Mycroft2152 <mycroft2152@y...> 
wrote:

>
> The auto shock absorbers seem to be a bit of an
> overkill. Besides the effort needed to compress them
> is very high.
> 
> I would suggest a small rubber ball instead. With the
> arm length needed for tangental motion, there would be
> plenty of room.
> Heavy duty rubber pneumatic cushions are in use don
> trucks instead of the standard shock absorbers.
> 
> Myc

I would be interested in seeing it as well.
Keith
--- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, Alan King <alan@n...> wrote:
>
> PPC wrote:
> 
> >Wonderful! Where will you post the pic? I'll be interested to see 
how you do 
> >it.
> >
> >Can you list the parts you have in this CNC?
> >
> >  
> >
>   Well going to write and list things as I go along, so it'll be a 
day 
> or two, and sticking it up on my webspace..
> 
> Really is:
> 
> 1  8' x 1.5" x 1.5" aluminium angle rail at around $20.
> 6 rails at $36.  (3 two packs, and maybe a bit more money by now..)
> 2 metal electrical boxes at $6-8.
> Plastic electrical boxes for motor mounts.
> Wood base at about 24" by 18" for the base, and wood plate for the 
tool 
> mounting plate.
> 
>   Rest is little stuff like nuts and bolts, angle brackets etc.  
Main 
> goal was fairly decent machine without machining either wood or 
metal, 
> and almost all metal, so no relying on wood parts for anything 
> important.  Really I'm sure it could be greatly improved, 
especially in 
> the traveling nut to rail connections.  My initial crude hacks 
just to 
> get it up and running for test worked well enough that I never 
even gave 
> it a proper second look for better common parts at the hardware 
store 
> etc.  Couldn't get rebuilding it when it already worked ok for 
what I 
> wanted at the time.
> 
>   First one takes a few days, after that you could probably build 
the 
> second in an afternoon or less.  Once going, I could probably 
build them 
> at the rate of 1/hour or faster, thought about selling them on 
Ebay 
> myself.  Still might do so even, if I get back into it.  For now 
though 
> I have the other products coming, and their price per build time 
and 
> leading into other related products demands my attention, even if 
they 
> won't sell that fast at first.
> 
>   Nothing too much special about the machine, other than the work 
is 
> done for how to make it go together and get it aligned.  If I  
gave you 
> the parts with holes etc as pieces, and no instructions, it'd 
probably 
> take a week or two for most to rearrange things and get it 
working, and 
> have even more trouble making it well.  Several other ways to 
arrange 
> the components of course, but most cut down the work area or have 
other 
> interference problems.  I've already worked it all out for the 
most part 
> over the few weeks it took to get this one ok for use, so you 
won't have 
> to reinvent all the wheels.  I've got to get it up and routing, so 
it'll 

> be coming shortly.
> 
> Alan
>

They were made by Goodrich or Firestone and called
something like "air cushions". It's been a while since
I saw the reference.

These were very large and heavy duty, used on the
semi-trailers.

Myc

--- adicont2 <adicont2@...> wrote:

> I refer to those little shock absorbers for car back
> door, or even 
> normal ones, but consider a haked shock absorber
> whithout oil inside. 
> This whay, the effort needed to compress it is low,
> and arm lenght can 
> be adjusted to minimum (something like 300mm).
> I don't know nothing about heavy duty rubber
> pneumatic cushions. 
> Please, can you give me some details, or a link.
> 
> 
> Adrian
> 
>  
> --- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, Mycroft2152
> <mycroft2152@y...> 
> wrote:
> >
> > The auto shock absorbers seem to be a bit of an
> > overkill. Besides the effort needed to compress
> them
> > is very high.
> > 
> > I would suggest a small rubber ball instead. With
> the
> > arm length needed for tangental motion, there
> would be
> > plenty of room.
> > Heavy duty rubber pneumatic cushions are in use
> don
> > trucks instead of the standard shock absorbers.
> > 
> > Myc
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 


__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam?  Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around 
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they're gas springs. checkout mcmaster.com for details.

jtm

On Tue, 13 Dec 2005 17:54:01 +0100, Mycroft2152 <mycroft2152@...>  
wrote:

> They were made by Goodrich or Firestone and called
>
> something like "air cushions". It's been a while since
>
> I saw the reference.
>
>
> These were very large and heavy duty, used on the
>
> semi-trailers.
>
>
> Myc


But, how exactly helps that with a drill? i mean wouldn't they wobble  
around a bit, break the drills?
I can see how someone would take a shock absorber and modify it into a  
short travel linear slide, but i don't see how the air cushions can be  
used.

By the way, train carriages here use a similar system of very large  
pneumatic cushions for shock dampening - the kind of train you are in  
danger of falling asleep and missing your stop because the ride is so  
smooth.

ST

--- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, "adicont2" <adicont2@y...> 
wrote:
> Maybe a little steel tube, like a seringe needle and some epoxy in 
>it.

That's what I had thought. I've got aluminum standoff material here. I 
don't have much trouble with breaking lately, unless I do something 
stupid. I've just never liked the idea of that long "wobbly" section 
of exposed bit. BTW- Those diamond burrs I couldn't use are extra 
short (like 3/4") and also have a thicker shoulder leading to the 
ball. (sort of a shame)

The carbide .033's should be here within the next couple days, and the 
speed will be going up. :(

-George

Back to the original 'train' of thought... Not
everyone has a spare valve spring in their workshop.
The rubber ball would replace the spring in a long
lever drill press.

The 'wobble' would be controlled by the type of hinge
used, not the ball or spring.

It seemed that, an auto shock absorber was a clever
use, it was a serious overkill and huge for a simple
driller with a few mm travel. Now if there were some
10 cm shock abosrbers, it would be different.

Myc


--- Stefan Trethan <stefan_trethan@...> wrote:

> On Tue, 13 Dec 2005 17:54:01 +0100, Mycroft2152
> <mycroft2152@...>  
> wrote:
> 
> > They were made by Goodrich or Firestone and called
> >
> > something like "air cushions". It's been a while
> since
> >
> > I saw the reference.
> >
> >
> > These were very large and heavy duty, used on the
> >
> > semi-trailers.
> >
> >
> > Myc
> 
> 
> But, how exactly helps that with a drill? i mean
> wouldn't they wobble  
> around a bit, break the drills?
> I can see how someone would take a shock absorber
> and modify it into a  
> short travel linear slide, but i don't see how the
> air cushions can be  
> used.
> 
> By the way, train carriages here use a similar
> system of very large  
> pneumatic cushions for shock dampening - the kind of
> train you are in  
> danger of falling asleep and missing your stop
> because the ride is so  
> smooth.
> 
> ST
> 
> 
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> Links, Files, and Photos:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Homebrew_PCBs
> 
> If Files or Photos are running short of space, post
> them here:
>
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Thanks Jim. Those would work. About $12 for a small
stroke with 15 lb pressure and the hardware, Not bad.

Now, the question is how to motorize it. Trying to
avoid the standard screw based z axis setup.

Myc

--- Jim Miller <jim@...> wrote:

> they're gas springs. checkout mcmaster.com for
> details.
> 
> jtm
> 
> 
> ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
> --------------------~--> 
> Get fast access to your favorite Yahoo! Groups. Make
> Yahoo! your home page
>
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> 
> 
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> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Homebrew_PCBs
> 
> If Files or Photos are running short of space, post
> them here:
>
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On Tue, 13 Dec 2005 19:39:37 +0100, Mycroft2152 <mycroft2152@...>  
wrote:

> Back to the original 'train' of thought... Not
>
> everyone has a spare valve spring in their workshop.
>
> The rubber ball would replace the spring in a long
>
> lever drill press.
>
>
> The 'wobble' would be controlled by the type of hinge
>
> used, not the ball or spring.
>
>
> It seemed that, an auto shock absorber was a clever
>
> use, it was a serious overkill and huge for a simple
>
> driller with a few mm travel. Now if there were some
>
> 10 cm shock abosrbers, it would be different.
>
>
> Myc


AH, i see, just to balance the pivoting arm!
I thought (and still do) the car shock absorbers were intended to be used  
as linear slides for a non-pivoting type of press.

I don't think it is very difficult to find a spring, and a counterweight  
on the back of the arm works well here, but a rubber ball of some sort  
would surely work as well. I reckon even rubber bands can be used if some  
standoff mechanism is used.

ST

On Tue, 13 Dec 2005 19:31:28 +0100, soffee83 <soffee83@...> wrote:

> That's what I had thought. I've got aluminum standoff material here. I
>
> don't have much trouble with breaking lately, unless I do something
>
> stupid. I've just never liked the idea of that long "wobbly" section
>
> of exposed bit. BTW- Those diamond burrs I couldn't use are extra
>
> short (like 3/4") and also have a thicker shoulder leading to the
>
> ball. (sort of a shame)
>
>
> The carbide .033's should be here within the next couple days, and the
>
> speed will be going up.
>
>
> -George


I was thinking, maybe ferrules or rivets might be a source for small  
diameter tubing.
Getting the epoxy in there should not be too difficult, i hope ;-)

but then, i don't break so many, if i make no mistake. And if i make a  
mistake it will probably still break.
Let us know if you try it and notice they don't break.

I know a electronics distributor here sold "spade" carbide bits that were  
very short. I bet those are harder to break.

ST

On Tue, 13 Dec 2005 20:09:01 +0100, Mycroft2152 <mycroft2152@...>  
wrote:

> Thanks Jim. Those would work. About $12 for a small
>
> stroke with 15 lb pressure and the hardware, Not bad.
>
>
> Now, the question is how to motorize it. Trying to
>
> avoid the standard screw based z axis setup.
>
>
> Myc


Maybe a air cylinder?

ST

--- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, "Stefan Trethan" 
<stefan_trethan@g...> wrote:
>
> On Tue, 13 Dec 2005 19:39:37 +0100, Mycroft2152 <mycroft2152@y...>  
> wrote:
> 
> > Back to the original 'train' of thought... Not
> >
> > everyone has a spare valve spring in their workshop.
> >
> > The rubber ball would replace the spring in a long
> >
> > lever drill press.
> >
> >
> > The 'wobble' would be controlled by the type of hinge
> >
> > used, not the ball or spring.
> >
> >
> > It seemed that, an auto shock absorber was a clever
> >
> > use, it was a serious overkill and huge for a simple
> >
> > driller with a few mm travel. Now if there were some
> >
> > 10 cm shock abosrbers, it would be different.
> >
> >
> > Myc
> 
> 
> AH, i see, just to balance the pivoting arm!
> I thought (and still do) the car shock absorbers were intended to be 
used  
> as linear slides for a non-pivoting type of press.
> 
> I don't think it is very difficult to find a spring, and a 
counterweight  
> on the back of the arm works well here, but a rubber ball of some 
sort  
> would surely work as well. I reckon even rubber bands can be used if 
some  
> standoff mechanism is used.
> 
> ST
>




My "back door car shock absorber" is a gas spring. You can see it at 
http://www.mcmaster.com/
Yes there is some missunderstandings here ;-)
I talk about a linear slides for a non-pivoting type of press. A 
absolutly now play one. This is not a 1 hour project, but 2-3 hours...
Take a look here for a simple schematic:
http://tinypic.com/view/?pic=ilfuh1



Adrian

Missed that turn off. :0

I cant see why they wouldn't work as linear slides.
Definitely need to reduce force needed to move them.

Might even consider for x - y use on a small platform
also.

Myc

--- Stefan Trethan <stefan_trethan@...> wrote:

> On Tue, 13 Dec 2005 19:39:37 +0100, Mycroft2152
> <mycroft2152@...>  
> wrote:
> 
> > Back to the original 'train' of thought... Not
> >
> > everyone has a spare valve spring in their
> workshop.
> >
> > The rubber ball would replace the spring in a long
> >
> > lever drill press.
> >
> >
> > The 'wobble' would be controlled by the type of
> hinge
> >
> > used, not the ball or spring.
> >
> >
> > It seemed that, an auto shock absorber was a
> clever
> >
> > use, it was a serious overkill and huge for a
> simple
> >
> > driller with a few mm travel. Now if there were
> some
> >
> > 10 cm shock abosrbers, it would be different.
> >
> >
> > Myc
> 
> 
> AH, i see, just to balance the pivoting arm!
> I thought (and still do) the car shock absorbers
> were intended to be used  
> as linear slides for a non-pivoting type of press.
> 
> I don't think it is very difficult to find a spring,
> and a counterweight  
> on the back of the arm works well here, but a rubber
> ball of some sort  
> would surely work as well. I reckon even rubber
> bands can be used if some  
> standoff mechanism is used.
> 
> ST
> 
> 
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> Links, Files, and Photos:
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> them here:
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> 
>  
> 
> 
> 
> 


__________________________________________________
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Makes sense now.

I see you are using DipTRace. How do you like it? I'm
an old EAGLE user and just started using DipRace.

Myc




--- adicont2 <adicont2@...> wrote:

> --- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, "Stefan
> Trethan" 
> <stefan_trethan@g...> wrote:
> >
> > On Tue, 13 Dec 2005 19:39:37 +0100, Mycroft2152
> <mycroft2152@y...>  
> > wrote:
> > 
> > > Back to the original 'train' of thought... Not
> > >
> > > everyone has a spare valve spring in their
> workshop.
> > >
> > > The rubber ball would replace the spring in a
> long
> > >
> > > lever drill press.
> > >
> > >
> > > The 'wobble' would be controlled by the type of
> hinge
> > >
> > > used, not the ball or spring.
> > >
> > >
> > > It seemed that, an auto shock absorber was a
> clever
> > >
> > > use, it was a serious overkill and huge for a
> simple
> > >
> > > driller with a few mm travel. Now if there were
> some
> > >
> > > 10 cm shock abosrbers, it would be different.
> > >
> > >
> > > Myc
> > 
> > 
> > AH, i see, just to balance the pivoting arm!
> > I thought (and still do) the car shock absorbers
> were intended to be 
> used  
> > as linear slides for a non-pivoting type of press.
> > 
> > I don't think it is very difficult to find a
> spring, and a 
> counterweight  
> > on the back of the arm works well here, but a
> rubber ball of some 
> sort  
> > would surely work as well. I reckon even rubber
> bands can be used if 
> some  
> > standoff mechanism is used.
> > 
> > ST
> >
> 
> 
> 
> 
> My "back door car shock absorber" is a gas spring.
> You can see it at 
> http://www.mcmaster.com/
> Yes there is some missunderstandings here ;-)
> I talk about a linear slides for a non-pivoting type
> of press. A 
> absolutly now play one. This is not a 1 hour
> project, but 2-3 hours...
> Take a look here for a simple schematic:
> http://tinypic.com/view/?pic=ilfuh1
> 
> 
> 
> Adrian
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 


__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam?  Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around 
http://mail.yahoo.com

--- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, "adicont2" <adicont2@y...> 
wrote:
> Take a look here for a simple schematic:
> http://tinypic.com/view/?pic=ilfuh1

I still think the additional "upper rail support" might be needed to 
keep the whole thing vertical and steady, and I like the idea of 
fatter posts for those too, so having the posts protrude up through 
the carriage pipes might be a necessity. The whole thing could be 
short enough that you could just slice a couple sections out of the 
larger tube. The small tube would only have to be tall enough to 
handle a PCB plus the bit and Dremel nose section. The Dremel itself 
could extend up past the whole rig, and you could just stack plywood/
hardboard "shim" plates to get the table height from the base for 
different bit lengths. 

I just mailed someone who might have car stuff laying around. If she 
has something good, I may try it over the next few days. I'm not 
really familiar with shock parts, but if that large (1"?) outer tube 
I've seen has a tight fit to the smaller one on the main visible body, 
it would be perfect (and thanks again for the suggestion).

-George

Some might also be interested in this, although not proven yet.

To speed up my CNC drilling I am experimenting with this item I got 
from ebay.

http://photos.groups.yahoo.com/group/homebrew_pcbs/lst?&.dir=/Spiyda


or if that doesn't work,  in the Spiydafolder in the photos section

item ... slide

It is a small pneumatic slide with two cylinders inside.. It both 
takes care of the parallel movement and the actuation. 
I also got some 24 Volt pneamatic valves from the same guy that I 
have had Mach3 switching on and off.

It should not only be faster than the x axis movement but will also 
reduce the wear as i didn't take the same care with the z as i did 
with the x and y.

Just a case of finding the time to do it !

It was a cheap way to get a small movement axis  at $29 shipped to 
me!

Chris



--- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, "soffee83" <soffee83@y...> 
wrote:
>
> --- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, "adicont2" <adicont2@y...> 
> wrote:
> > Take a look here for a simple schematic:
> > http://tinypic.com/view/?pic=ilfuh1
> 
> I still think the additional "upper rail support" might be needed 
to 
> keep the whole thing vertical and steady, and I like the idea of 
> fatter posts for those too, so having the posts protrude up 
through 
> the carriage pipes might be a necessity. The whole thing could be 
> short enough that you could just slice a couple sections out of 
the 
> larger tube. The small tube would only have to be tall enough to 
> handle a PCB plus the bit and Dremel nose section. The Dremel 
itself 
> could extend up past the whole rig, and you could just stack 
plywood/
> hardboard "shim" plates to get the table height from the base for 
> different bit lengths. 
> 
> I just mailed someone who might have car stuff laying around. If 
she 
> has something good, I may try it over the next few days. I'm not 
> really familiar with shock parts, but if that large (1"?) outer 
tube 
> I've seen has a tight fit to the smaller one on the main visible 
body, 

> it would be perfect (and thanks again for the suggestion).
> 
> -George
>

Is ok. 
There is some little bugs, but all bugs reported is rapidly fixed.
I use free version of Deeptrace and there is some limitations, but not 
significant ones.
So...for me...is ok.


Adrian


--- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, Mycroft2152 <mycroft2152@y...> 
wrote:

>
> Makes sense now.
> 
> I see you are using DipTRace. How do you like it? I'm
> an old EAGLE user and just started using DipRace.
> 
> Myc

The design can be inprouved, take a look
http://tinypic.com/view/?pic=im1i7l
There is 2 big problems here:
- strong and right connection between base and absorbers
- strong and right connection between both absorbers and drill suport
Idealy, this connections must be all metall and welded. 
Next days I will try to imagine a "in house" strong connection (I 
don't have a welding machine).  



Adrian

--- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, "soffee83" <soffee83@y...> 
wrote:

> I still think the additional "upper rail support" might be needed to 
> keep the whole thing vertical and steady, and I like the idea of 
> fatter posts for those too, so having the posts protrude up through 
> the carriage pipes might be a necessity. The whole thing could be 
> short enough that you could just slice a couple sections out of the 
> larger tube. The small tube would only have to be tall enough to 
> handle a PCB plus the bit and Dremel nose section. The Dremel itself 
> could extend up past the whole rig, and you could just stack 
plywood/
> hardboard "shim" plates to get the table height from the base for 
> different bit lengths. 
> 
> I just mailed someone who might have car stuff laying around. If she 
> has something good, I may try it over the next few days. I'm not 
> really familiar with shock parts, but if that large (1"?) outer tube 
> I've seen has a tight fit to the smaller one on the main visible 
body, 

> it would be perfect (and thanks again for the suggestion).
> 
> -George
>