Modular Synth Panels

On May 25, 2009, at 11:48 AM, adaaxs wrote:

>
>
>
> I know this is down the road (wish it wasn't) but are there any ideas
> for JH living vco panels ? is it going to be one w controller and add
> ons or full three w controller like on a Moog ? I have been dropping
> threes of every type I have ever done except lfos.
> For me it lvco is an easy build, couldn't resist starting on one. I
> found that the smaller smd bypass caps (1205 ?) are easier to attach
> to the pcb, much neater and I don't melt them.
>
>

--- On Fri, 5/29/09, Jeff Laity <synthetic@...> wrote:

From: Jeff Laity <synthetic@...>
Subject: Re: [ModularSynthPanels] Living VCO
To: ModularSynthPanels@yahoogroups.com
Date: Friday, May 29, 2009, 12:29 AM

Nice design. I'd prefer a panel without the Vernier dial, though. I like the mixed big and small knobs, and that the jacks are MOTM standard spacing. (And the font ;) )

Also, do the trims have to be on the front panel? Why not just put them on the board? 

On May 26, 2009, at 7:18 PM, Scott Deyo wrote:

The 'ills have some designs they've been working on:
http://dragonflyall ey.com/construct ionJHLivingVCO. htm

Scott Deyo
The Bridechamber
contact@bridechambe r.com
http://www.bridecha mber.com
Jealous Edison Record Kompany
http://www.jealouse dison.com


On May 25, 2009, at 11:48 AM, adaaxs wrote:

I know this is down the road (wish it wasn't) but are there any ideas for JH living vco panels ? is it going to be one w controller and add ons or full three w controller like on a Moog ? I have been dropping threes of every type I have ever done except lfos.
For me it lvco is an easy build, couldn't resist starting on one. I found that the smaller smd bypass caps (1205 ?) are easier to attach to the pcb, much neater and I don't melt them.

--- In ModularSynthPanels@yahoogroups.com, Scott Deyo <contact@...> wrote:
>
> The 'ills have some designs they've been working on:
> http://dragonflyalley.com/constructionJHLivingVCO.htm
>
> Scott Deyo
> The Bridechamber
> contact@...
> http://www.bridechamber.com
> Jealous Edison Record Kompany
> http://www.jealousedison.com
>
>
> On May 25, 2009, at 11:48 AM, adaaxs wrote:
>
> >
> >
> >
> > I know this is down the road (wish it wasn't) but are there any ideas
> > for JH living vco panels ? is it going to be one w controller and add
> > ons or full three w controller like on a Moog ? I have been dropping
> > threes of every type I have ever done except lfos.
> > For me it lvco is an easy build, couldn't resist starting on one. I
> > found that the smaller smd bypass caps (1205 ?) are easier to attach
> > to the pcb, much neater and I don't melt them.
> >
> >
>

>
> Hi Guys - On our site, we show a 4U version with some tiny (1/2") knobs. We're almost certain everything will fit behind the panel but we're going to do a very careful experiment to make sure. Before Scott makes any panels, we'll buy some of the 1/2" knobs and lay them out and photo it all so everyone can see exactly what it will look like, OK?
>
> At Scott's suggestion, Will developed an alternative 5U version. It's exactly the same layout, except it has a slightly larger (and less expensive) vernier (counting) dial and it uses the "Tellun" Standard .67in dia knobs that match MOTM standard except are smaller.
>
> In both these layouts, Will kept as many as possible of the control elements on the standard MOTM grid - especially the horizontal - and they both look real good (to my eye).
>
> In our case, if either the four or five U version is made, we intend to build a 1U sister module with three wave-shapers to supply SIN, SAW, TRI, and SQR outputs for each VCO.
>
> We've already done the research on this - it looks like it can be accomplished by using three MFOS VCO PCBs and feeding the "core" output of each Living VCO into the Wave-Shaper section of the MFOS circuit at R12. (please review)
>
> So at my request, Will also developed yet another panel layout that includes the wave-shaper outputs in the same panel as the Living VCO. It's 7U, (one unit larger than the 5U plus the 1U daughter-board), uses all MOTM standard knobs (except the larger counting dials), and has the SIN, SAW, TRI, SQR outs at the bottom (a-la the MOTM-300) as well as the standard Living VCO outputs.
>
> At the moment, I haven't got time to give the 5U and 7U versions a final review and post them, but I promise I will when I have time later on tonight.
>
> As for me, I'm leaning toward Will's 7U version. I know it sounds crazy - and most people will want the 4U or 5U versions. So I'll probably ask Scott to do a one-off for us (although I have heard interest in the 7U from at least one other builder).
>
> Still the 4U or 5U is going to suit most people just fine.
>
> Again, I'll post them later one way or another.
>
> Thx.
>
> Bill (and Will)
>
>
>
>
> --- In ModularSynthPanels@yahoogroups.com, Scott Deyo <contact@> wrote:
> >
> > The 'ills have some designs they've been working on:
> > http://dragonflyalley.com/constructionJHLivingVCO.htm
> >
> > Scott Deyo
> > The Bridechamber
> > contact@
> > http://www.bridechamber.com
> > Jealous Edison Record Kompany
> > http://www.jealousedison.com
> >
> >
> > On May 25, 2009, at 11:48 AM, adaaxs wrote:
> >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > I know this is down the road (wish it wasn't) but are there any ideas
> > > for JH living vco panels ? is it going to be one w controller and add
> > > ons or full three w controller like on a Moog ? I have been dropping
> > > threes of every type I have ever done except lfos.
> > > For me it lvco is an easy build, couldn't resist starting on one. I
> > > found that the smaller smd bypass caps (1205 ?) are easier to attach
> > > to the pcb, much neater and I don't melt them.
> > >
> > >
> >
>

--- In ModularSynthPanels@yahoogroups.com, "adaaxs" <wonggster@...> wrote:
>
> That kid of yours is something else. Actually a 7u panel is sensible if it is the main vco in the cabinet it is going into. When working on a synthi the VCO is what you tend to obsess on. Small vco knobs don't hunt. I guess I am down for a 7 and a 5.
>
> If it is a short run perhaps Scott could use Metalphoto , MF makes stick on panels that that are really thin metal and very cheap after art costs, (relatively you send them a punched panel and they can print and stick on an overlay that will be punched and match or they can do a regular panel. They use all art types prbly not .fpd.
> >
> > Hi Guys - On our site, we show a 4U version with some tiny (1/2") knobs. We're almost certain everything will fit behind the panel but we're going to do a very careful experiment to make sure. Before Scott makes any panels, we'll buy some of the 1/2" knobs and lay them out and photo it all so everyone can see exactly what it will look like, OK?
> >
> > At Scott's suggestion, Will developed an alternative 5U version. It's exactly the same layout, except it has a slightly larger (and less expensive) vernier (counting) dial and it uses the "Tellun" Standard .67in dia knobs that match MOTM standard except are smaller.
> >
> > In both these layouts, Will kept as many as possible of the control elements on the standard MOTM grid - especially the horizontal - and they both look real good (to my eye).
> >
> > In our case, if either the four or five U version is made, we intend to build a 1U sister module with three wave-shapers to supply SIN, SAW, TRI, and SQR outputs for each VCO.
> >
> > We've already done the research on this - it looks like it can be accomplished by using three MFOS VCO PCBs and feeding the "core" output of each Living VCO into the Wave-Shaper section of the MFOS circuit at R12. (please review)
> >
> > So at my request, Will also developed yet another panel layout that includes the wave-shaper outputs in the same panel as the Living VCO. It's 7U, (one unit larger than the 5U plus the 1U daughter-board), uses all MOTM standard knobs (except the larger counting dials), and has the SIN, SAW, TRI, SQR outs at the bottom (a-la the MOTM-300) as well as the standard Living VCO outputs.
> >
> > At the moment, I haven't got time to give the 5U and 7U versions a final review and post them, but I promise I will when I have time later on tonight.
> >
> > As for me, I'm leaning toward Will's 7U version. I know it sounds crazy - and most people will want the 4U or 5U versions. So I'll probably ask Scott to do a one-off for us (although I have heard interest in the 7U from at least one other builder).
> >
> > Still the 4U or 5U is going to suit most people just fine.
> >
> > Again, I'll post them later one way or another.
> >
> > Thx.
> >
> > Bill (and Will)
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > --- In ModularSynthPanels@yahoogroups.com, Scott Deyo <contact@> wrote:
> > >
> > > The 'ills have some designs they've been working on:
> > > http://dragonflyalley.com/constructionJHLivingVCO.htm
> > >
> > > Scott Deyo
> > > The Bridechamber
> > > contact@
> > > http://www.bridechamber.com
> > > Jealous Edison Record Kompany
> > > http://www.jealousedison.com
> > >
> > >
> > > On May 25, 2009, at 11:48 AM, adaaxs wrote:
> > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > I know this is down the road (wish it wasn't) but are there any ideas
> > > > for JH living vco panels ? is it going to be one w controller and add
> > > > ons or full three w controller like on a Moog ? I have been dropping
> > > > threes of every type I have ever done except lfos.
> > > > For me it lvco is an easy build, couldn't resist starting on one. I
> > > > found that the smaller smd bypass caps (1205 ?) are easier to attach
> > > > to the pcb, much neater and I don't melt them.
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> >
>

--- In ModularSynthPanels@yahoogroups.com, "wjhall11" <wjhall@...> wrote:
>
> Yeah - Will's a trip. These days he's filling blank books with poetry. When he gets out of school in a few weeks, we'll launch into building our four-section case and mounting our modules into it (at long last).
>
> OK - so - let's all remember that the 7U version involves the three waveshapers - that means 3 MFOS VCO PCBs in addition to the Living VCOs PCB. This hasn't been tested yet, of course, but we see no reason it wouldn't work. Ray Wilson feels it will.
>
> We corresponded with him and he confirmed that by feeding the Living VCO "core" output into the MFOS VCO PCB at R12, we'd use just the wave-shaper section and viola! It's unclear what the value of R12 should be - we don't know enough engineering to calculate it.
>
> Jurgen says the LVCO "core" output is 0...+10V; the input of the MFOS VCO waveshaper is designed for 1.5V. Ray suggests we'd "need to adjust the value of R12 up to perhaps 82K or 91K since the RAW output on the MFOS VCO is way lower than 10V (it is more in the range of 1 to 1.5V.)" R5 may also need adjusting.
>
> But Will and I totally plan to build this. It seems really pricey until you divide the cost into three VCOs plus the "Controller" thing plus the waveshapers. It's four modules in one - plus waveshaping. Pretty cool.
>
> OK - so I'd forgotten I'd already posted all 3 designs to our Main Page - http://www.dragonflyalley.com/billAndWillMOTMSynth.htm - scroll down on the page 'till you get to the JH Living VCOs Designs ( a little more than halfway down.)
>
> The 5U is a really straightforward implementation of Jurgen's circuit control design. It looks quirky because of the switches that tie the PW & PWM controls together. But it really does make sense.
>
> The 7U looks a little quirky because of the way the Verniers are skewed to the right of the other controls. But I think it kinda looks cool that way. And it makes it possible to use completely MOTM-compatible Knobs for all the controls, and has room for the Wave-shaped outputs at the bottom, and has very intuitive layout for the "Controller" thing.
>
> In all these designs, we wanted to make the VCOs operate as independently as possible. I'll review the Schematics later tonight and remind myself just how independent this is.
>
> OK - enough for now.
>
> Bill
>
>
> --- In ModularSynthPanels@yahoogroups.com, "adaaxs" <wonggster@> wrote:
> >
> > That kid of yours is something else. Actually a 7u panel is sensible if it is the main vco in the cabinet it is going into. When working on a synthi the VCO is what you tend to obsess on. Small vco knobs don't hunt. I guess I am down for a 7 and a 5.
> >
> > If it is a short run perhaps Scott could use Metalphoto , MF makes stick on panels that that are really thin metal and very cheap after art costs, (relatively you send them a punched panel and they can print and stick on an overlay that will be punched and match or they can do a regular panel. They use all art types prbly not .fpd.
> > >
> > > Hi Guys - On our site, we show a 4U version with some tiny (1/2") knobs. We're almost certain everything will fit behind the panel but we're going to do a very careful experiment to make sure. Before Scott makes any panels, we'll buy some of the 1/2" knobs and lay them out and photo it all so everyone can see exactly what it will look like, OK?
> > >
> > > At Scott's suggestion, Will developed an alternative 5U version. It's exactly the same layout, except it has a slightly larger (and less expensive) vernier (counting) dial and it uses the "Tellun" Standard .67in dia knobs that match MOTM standard except are smaller.
> > >
> > > In both these layouts, Will kept as many as possible of the control elements on the standard MOTM grid - especially the horizontal - and they both look real good (to my eye).
> > >
> > > In our case, if either the four or five U version is made, we intend to build a 1U sister module with three wave-shapers to supply SIN, SAW, TRI, and SQR outputs for each VCO.
> > >
> > > We've already done the research on this - it looks like it can be accomplished by using three MFOS VCO PCBs and feeding the "core" output of each Living VCO into the Wave-Shaper section of the MFOS circuit at R12. (please review)
> > >
> > > So at my request, Will also developed yet another panel layout that includes the wave-shaper outputs in the same panel as the Living VCO. It's 7U, (one unit larger than the 5U plus the 1U daughter-board), uses all MOTM standard knobs (except the larger counting dials), and has the SIN, SAW, TRI, SQR outs at the bottom (a-la the MOTM-300) as well as the standard Living VCO outputs.
> > >
> > > At the moment, I haven't got time to give the 5U and 7U versions a final review and post them, but I promise I will when I have time later on tonight.
> > >
> > > As for me, I'm leaning toward Will's 7U version. I know it sounds crazy - and most people will want the 4U or 5U versions. So I'll probably ask Scott to do a one-off for us (although I have heard interest in the 7U from at least one other builder).
> > >
> > > Still the 4U or 5U is going to suit most people just fine.
> > >
> > > Again, I'll post them later one way or another.
> > >
> > > Thx.
> > >
> > > Bill (and Will)
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > --- In ModularSynthPanels@yahoogroups.com, Scott Deyo <contact@> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > The 'ills have some designs they've been working on:
> > > > http://dragonflyalley.com/constructionJHLivingVCO.htm
> > > >
> > > > Scott Deyo
> > > > The Bridechamber
> > > > contact@
> > > > http://www.bridechamber.com
> > > > Jealous Edison Record Kompany
> > > > http://www.jealousedison.com
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > On May 25, 2009, at 11:48 AM, adaaxs wrote:
> > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > I know this is down the road (wish it wasn't) but are there any ideas
> > > > > for JH living vco panels ? is it going to be one w controller and add
> > > > > ons or full three w controller like on a Moog ? I have been dropping
> > > > > threes of every type I have ever done except lfos.
> > > > > For me it lvco is an easy build, couldn't resist starting on one. I
> > > > > found that the smaller smd bypass caps (1205 ?) are easier to attach
> > > > > to the pcb, much neater and I don't melt them.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > >
> >
>

On May 29, 2009, at 7:24 AM, Jan-Ahrent Czmok wrote:

>
>
>
> On 27.05.2009, at 04:18, Scott Deyo wrote:
>
>> The 'ills have some designs they've been working on:
>> http://dragonflyalley.com/constructionJHLivingVCO.htm
>>
>> Scott Deyo
> Will you do a panel run for this design ? i got the living vco kit
> with the verniers and really like the design..
>
> --jan
>
>
>

--- In ModularSynthPanels@yahoogroups.com, Scott Deyo <contact@...> wrote:
>
> I'm doing something, but I'm not sure what yet. Maybe a poll will
> happen, but not for a little while yet....
>
> Scott Deyo
> The Bridechamber
> contact@...
> http://www.bridechamber.com
> Jealous Edison Record Kompany
> http://www.jealousedison.com
>
>
> On May 29, 2009, at 7:24 AM, Jan-Ahrent Czmok wrote:
>
> >
> >
> >
> > On 27.05.2009, at 04:18, Scott Deyo wrote:
> >
> >> The 'ills have some designs they've been working on:
> >> http://dragonflyalley.com/constructionJHLivingVCO.htm
> >>
> >> Scott Deyo
> > Will you do a panel run for this design ? i got the living vco kit
> > with the verniers and really like the design..
> >
> > --jan
> >
> >
> >
>

NOTICE: This electronic mail message and its contents, including any attachments hereto (collectively, "this e-mail"), is hereby designated as "confidential and proprietary." This e-mail may be viewed and used only by the person to whom it has been sent and his/her employer solely for the express purpose for which it has been disclosed and only in accordance with any confidentiality or non-disclosure (or similar) agreement between TEAC Corporation or its affiliates and said employer, and may not be disclosed to any other person or entity.

--- In ModularSynthPanels@yahoogroups.com, Jeff Laity <synthetic@...> wrote:
>
> Any update on this panel? I vote for a version without verniers if
> possible.
>
>
> On Jun 1, 2009, at 9:30 PM, Scott Deyo wrote:
>
> > I'm doing something, but I'm not sure what yet. Maybe a poll will
> > happen, but not for a little while yet....
> >
> > Scott Deyo
> > The Bridechamber
> > contact@...
> > http://www.bridechamber.com
> > Jealous Edison Record Kompany
> > http://www.jealousedison.com
> >
> >
> > On May 29, 2009, at 7:24 AM, Jan-Ahrent Czmok wrote:
> >
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> On 27.05.2009, at 04:18, Scott Deyo wrote:
> >>
> >>> The 'ills have some designs they've been working on:
> >>> http://dragonflyalley.com/constructionJHLivingVCO.htm
> >>>
> >>> Scott Deyo
> >> Will you do a panel run for this design ? i got the living vco kit
> >> with the verniers and really like the design..
> >>
> >> --jan
> >>
> >>
>
>
> NOTICE: This electronic mail message and its contents, including any attachments hereto (collectively, "this e-mail"), is hereby designated as "confidential and proprietary." This e-mail may be viewed and used only by the person to whom it has been sent and his/her employer solely for the express purpose for which it has been disclosed and only in accordance with any confidentiality or non-disclosure (or similar) agreement between TEAC Corporation or its affiliates and said employer, and may not be disclosed to any other person or entity.  
>  
>
>
>
>
>  
>

On Aug 12, 2009, at 10:31 AM, wjhall11 wrote:

> It seems to Will and I that the only real advantage, aside from less
> expense, of building the LVCO without vernier (counting) dials
> appears to be taking up a little less space - we found counting
> dials that are only a little bigger than the standard MOTM TYCOs.
> But taking up less space looks to us like it isn't very useful
> because, assuming you include all of them, we can't see a way to
> possibly fit the controls into fewer than 4 Units.
>
> The big advantage of the verniers, of course, is the counting. The
> intended Frequency pots are fancy, 10-turn units, and we figure it
> will be good to have a read-out of the turn.
>
> The four-unit LVCO panel assumes really, really dinky pots for a
> bunch of the other controls. If you want to avoid the super-dinky
> pots, you move into the 5-Unit design which uses the semi-dinky
> knobs - the ones that appear on lots of Tellun designs. Then there's
> no real reason to use the small counting dials 'cause there's space
> for the bigger ones.
>
> But then there's the completely stupid 7U design... ahem...
> <shuffles his feet> <looks at the ceiling>
>
> We ordered up verniers from Mouser a few days ago... so maybe this
> note is just the beginning of a huge rationalization for allowing my
> OCD to run rampant as we stagger toward implementing the 7U design.
>
> <shrug>
>
> --- In ModularSynthPanels@yahoogroups.com, Jeff Laity
> <synthetic@...> wrote:
> >
> > Any update on this panel? I vote for a version without verniers if
> > possible.
> >
> >
> > On Jun 1, 2009, at 9:30 PM, Scott Deyo wrote:
> >
> > > I'm doing something, but I'm not sure what yet. Maybe a poll will
> > > happen, but not for a little while yet....
> > >
> > > Scott Deyo
> > > The Bridechamber
> > > contact@...
> > > http://www.bridechamber.com
> > > Jealous Edison Record Kompany
> > > http://www.jealousedison.com
> > >
> > >
> > > On May 29, 2009, at 7:24 AM, Jan-Ahrent Czmok wrote:
> > >
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> On 27.05.2009, at 04:18, Scott Deyo wrote:
> > >>
> > >>> The 'ills have some designs they've been working on:
> > >>> http://dragonflyalley.com/constructionJHLivingVCO.htm
> > >>>
> > >>> Scott Deyo
> > >> Will you do a panel run for this design ? i got the living vco
> kit
> > >> with the verniers and really like the design..
> > >>
> > >> --jan
> > >>
> > >>
> >

NOTICE: This electronic mail message and its contents, including any attachments hereto (collectively, "this e-mail"), is hereby designated as "confidential and proprietary." This e-mail�may be viewed and used only by the person to whom it has been sent and his/her employer�solely for the express purpose for which it has been disclosed and only in�accordance with any confidentiality or non-disclosure (or similar) agreement between TEAC Corporation or its affiliates and said employer, and may not be disclosed to any other person or entity. �
�




�

On Aug 12, 2009, at 2:11 PM, peter foti wrote:

> Here's a link to a photo of my finished FRAC LVCO panel.
> Board is populated, but unwired.
>
> http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2564/3756079896_50132dd6fc_b.jpg
>
> peter
>
>
> ------------------------------------
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>

> Hi,
> I am having a super hard time getting my pnp to go onto the AL
> correctly. It keeps peeling up very badly. I have used the blue pnp
> for years now without any issues making pcbs but I cannot get it to
> work on panels. Is there any tips that you can share? Your LVCO
> panel looks to be etched with good results.
> paul.

On Aug 12, 2009, at 7:01 PM, peter foti wrote:

> Make sure the panel is really clean. I use an ultrafine scotchbrite
> pad (the gray one) wet with soapy water. I rub in one direction only
> (length-wise). Then I rinse with water, dry it , and give it a final
> wipe with acetone. Don't touch the surface from this point on. In
> addition to ironing, I also use a soft rubber brayer with a fair
> amount of pressure. Also make sure the panel edges are free from
> burrs. They'll keep the iron from making good contact with the panel.
>
>
>
>> Hi,
>> I am having a super hard time getting my pnp to go onto the AL
>> correctly. It keeps peeling up very badly. I have used the blue pnp
>> for years now without any issues making pcbs but I cannot get it to
>> work on panels. Is there any tips that you can share? Your LVCO
>> panel looks to be etched with good results.
>> paul.
>
>
> ------------------------------------
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>

>
> Thank you for the reply. Do you use pnp? I normally use the steel
> pads with the soap in them, like a SOS off-brand. I have not tried
> acetone yet. I tried an iron first because this is how I always do
> PCB traces with perfect traces. That did not work. The I tried a
> vacuum heat press 2 times without any luck. That gets in 100% flat
> but still is not allowing a full transfer. It is blotchy and only
> doing about 1 inch areas with no area having a large portion of
> correct transfer.
>
> I see that you are using brass. Have you tried aluminum? And do you
> think that it needs to be a certain type of aluminum? I am trying a
> 8x16in size which is taking 2 sheets of pnp for each attempt.
>

>yes, press and peel blue. I haven't tried aluminum but I plan to in
>the future. I don't think the alloy would make much difference in
>terms of getting the pnp to stick (although it *might* make a small
>difference during etching). I generally use 6061 for machining and
>5052 for sheet metal and bending applications. Aluminum tends to form
>an tough oxide layer very quickly (aluminum oxide is sapphire, yo).
>And I bet heating it only makes this worse, but I'm no material
>scientist so take this with a grain of salt. Also your large surface
>area can't be helping. The fact that you're getting it to stick at all
>suggests that it can be done. Its just a matter of developing a
>procedure that works.

On Aug 13, 2009, at 8:10 AM, peter foti wrote:

> yes, press and peel blue. I haven't tried aluminum but I plan to in
> the future. I don't think the alloy would make much difference in
> terms of getting the pnp to stick (although it *might* make a small
> difference during etching). I generally use 6061 for machining and
> 5052 for sheet metal and bending applications. Aluminum tends to form
> an tough oxide layer very quickly (aluminum oxide is sapphire, yo).
> And I bet heating it only makes this worse, but I'm no material
> scientist so take this with a grain of salt. Also your large surface
> area can't be helping. The fact that you're getting it to stick at all
> suggests that it can be done. Its just a matter of developing a
> procedure that works.
>
>
>
>
>>
>> Thank you for the reply. Do you use pnp? I normally use the steel
>> pads with the soap in them, like a SOS off-brand. I have not tried
>> acetone yet. I tried an iron first because this is how I always do
>> PCB traces with perfect traces. That did not work. The I tried a
>> vacuum heat press 2 times without any luck. That gets in 100% flat
>> but still is not allowing a full transfer. It is blotchy and only
>> doing about 1 inch areas with no area having a large portion of
>> correct transfer.
>>
>> I see that you are using brass. Have you tried aluminum? And do you
>> think that it needs to be a certain type of aluminum? I am trying a
>> 8x16in size which is taking 2 sheets of pnp for each attempt.
>>
>
>
> ------------------------------------
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>

> It seems to Will and I that the only real advantage, aside from less expense, of building the LVCO without vernier (counting) dials appears to be taking up a little less space - we found counting dials that are only a little bigger than the standard MOTM TYCOs. But taking up less space looks to us like it isn't very useful because, assuming you include all of them, we can't see a way to possibly fit the controls into fewer than 4 Units.
>
> The big advantage of the verniers, of course, is the counting. The intended Frequency pots are fancy, 10-turn units, and we figure it will be good to have a read-out of the turn.
>
> The four-unit LVCO panel assumes really, really dinky pots for a bunch of the other controls. If you want to avoid the super-dinky pots, you move into the 5-Unit design which uses the semi-dinky knobs - the ones that appear on lots of Tellun designs. Then there's no real reason to use the small counting dials 'cause there's space for the bigger ones.
>
> But then there's the completely stupid 7U design... ahem... <shuffles his feet> <looks at the ceiling>
>
> We ordered up verniers from Mouser a few days ago... so maybe this note is just the beginning of a huge rationalization for allowing my OCD to run rampant as we stagger toward implementing the 7U design.
>
> <shrug>
>
>
>
>
>
> --- In ModularSynthPanels@yahoogroups.com, Jeff Laity <synthetic@> wrote:
> >
> > Any update on this panel? I vote for a version without verniers if
> > possible.
> >
> >
> > On Jun 1, 2009, at 9:30 PM, Scott Deyo wrote:
> >
> > > I'm doing something, but I'm not sure what yet. Maybe a poll will
> > > happen, but not for a little while yet....
> > >
> > > Scott Deyo
> > > The Bridechamber
> > > contact@
> > > http://www.bridechamber.com
> > > Jealous Edison Record Kompany
> > > http://www.jealousedison.com
> > >
> > >
> > > On May 29, 2009, at 7:24 AM, Jan-Ahrent Czmok wrote:
> > >
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> On 27.05.2009, at 04:18, Scott Deyo wrote:
> > >>
> > >>> The 'ills have some designs they've been working on:
> > >>> http://dragonflyalley.com/constructionJHLivingVCO.htm
> > >>>
> > >>> Scott Deyo
> > >> Will you do a panel run for this design ? i got the living vco kit
> > >> with the verniers and really like the design..
> > >>
> > >> --jan
> > >>
> > >>
> >
> >
> > NOTICE: This electronic mail message and its contents, including any attachments hereto (collectively, "this e-mail"), is hereby designated as "confidential and proprietary." This e-mail may be viewed and used only by the person to whom it has been sent and his/her employer solely for the express purpose for which it has been disclosed and only in accordance with any confidentiality or non-disclosure (or similar) agreement between TEAC Corporation or its affiliates and said employer, and may not be disclosed to any other person or entity.  
> >  
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >  
> >
>

>I wasn't implying that every piece of aluminum is coated with a thin
>film of sapphire. I was just trying to express that "aluminum oxide is
>very hard" in a jokey kind of way, not mislead anyone. The point is
>that Al2O3 is harder than pure aluminum and has different properties
>and that it *might* be contributing to the pnp not sticking.

On Aug 13, 2009, at 11:50 AM, "adaaxs" <wonggster@...> wrote:

> It looks like I am about to get on the short bus with the Ills.
>
> One of the most important parts of the synthi type oscillator is the
> interactive tuneability unlike any 3 oscillator network. Room to
> set the parameters is a good thing and multiturn verniers and 24 mm
> pots across the panel is they type of room I would invest in .
>
> gino
>
>
>> It seems to Will and I that the only real advantage, aside from
>> less expense, of building the LVCO without vernier (counting) dials
>> appears to be taking up a little less space - we found counting
>> dials that are only a little bigger than the standard MOTM TYCOs.
>> But taking up less space looks to us like it isn't very useful
>> because, assuming you include all of them, we can't see a way to
>> possibly fit the controls into fewer than 4 Units.
>>
>> The big advantage of the verniers, of course, is the counting. The
>> intended Frequency pots are fancy, 10-turn units, and we figure it
>> will be good to have a read-out of the turn.
>>
>> The four-unit LVCO panel assumes really, really dinky pots for a
>> bunch of the other controls. If you want to avoid the super-dinky
>> pots, you move into the 5-Unit design which uses the semi-dinky
>> knobs - the ones that appear on lots of Tellun designs. Then
>> there's no real reason to use the small counting dials 'cause
>> there's space for the bigger ones.
>>
>> But then there's the completely stupid 7U design... ahem...
>> <shuffles his feet> <looks at the ceiling>
>>
>> We ordered up verniers from Mouser a few days ago... so maybe this
>> note is just the beginning of a huge rationalization for allowing
>> my OCD to run rampant as we stagger toward implementing the 7U
>> design.
>>
>> <shrug>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --- In ModularSynthPanels@yahoogroups.com, Jeff Laity <synthetic@>
>> wrote:
>>>
>>> Any update on this panel? I vote for a version without verniers if
>>> possible.
>>>
>>>
>>> On Jun 1, 2009, at 9:30 PM, Scott Deyo wrote:
>>>
>>>> I'm doing something, but I'm not sure what yet. Maybe a poll will
>>>> happen, but not for a little while yet....
>>>>
>>>> Scott Deyo
>>>> The Bridechamber
>>>> contact@
>>>> http://www.bridechamber.com
>>>> Jealous Edison Record Kompany
>>>> http://www.jealousedison.com
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On May 29, 2009, at 7:24 AM, Jan-Ahrent Czmok wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On 27.05.2009, at 04:18, Scott Deyo wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> The 'ills have some designs they've been working on:
>>>>>> http://dragonflyalley.com/constructionJHLivingVCO.htm
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Scott Deyo
>>>>> Will you do a panel run for this design ? i got the living vco kit
>>>>> with the verniers and really like the design..
>>>>>
>>>>> --jan
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> NOTICE: This electronic mail message and its contents, including
>>> any attachments hereto (collectively, "this e-mail"), is hereby
>>> designated as "confidential and proprietary." This e-mail may be
>>> viewed and used only by the person to whom it has been sent and
>>> his/her employer solely for the express purpose for which it has
>>> been disclosed and only in accordance with any confidentiality or
>>> non-disclosure (or similar) agreement between TEAC Corporation or
>>> its affiliates and said employer, and may not be disclosed to any
>>> other person or entity.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>

--- In ModularSynthPanels@yahoogroups.com, Scott K Warren <scott@...> wrote:
>
> I also vote for a big layout with verniers and big pots. I want the
> stupidly-large 7U design too!
>
> Seriously, full-MOTM-size knobs are the only way to go.
>
> My two cents,
>
> skw
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> On Aug 13, 2009, at 11:50 AM, "adaaxs" <wonggster@...> wrote:
>
> > It looks like I am about to get on the short bus with the Ills.
> >
> > One of the most important parts of the synthi type oscillator is the
> > interactive tuneability unlike any 3 oscillator network. Room to
> > set the parameters is a good thing and multiturn verniers and 24 mm
> > pots across the panel is they type of room I would invest in .
> >
> > gino
> >
> >
> >> It seems to Will and I that the only real advantage, aside from
> >> less expense, of building the LVCO without vernier (counting) dials
> >> appears to be taking up a little less space - we found counting
> >> dials that are only a little bigger than the standard MOTM TYCOs.
> >> But taking up less space looks to us like it isn't very useful
> >> because, assuming you include all of them, we can't see a way to
> >> possibly fit the controls into fewer than 4 Units.
> >>
> >> The big advantage of the verniers, of course, is the counting. The
> >> intended Frequency pots are fancy, 10-turn units, and we figure it
> >> will be good to have a read-out of the turn.
> >>
> >> The four-unit LVCO panel assumes really, really dinky pots for a
> >> bunch of the other controls. If you want to avoid the super-dinky
> >> pots, you move into the 5-Unit design which uses the semi-dinky
> >> knobs - the ones that appear on lots of Tellun designs. Then
> >> there's no real reason to use the small counting dials 'cause
> >> there's space for the bigger ones.
> >>
> >> But then there's the completely stupid 7U design... ahem...
> >> <shuffles his feet> <looks at the ceiling>
> >>
> >> We ordered up verniers from Mouser a few days ago... so maybe this
> >> note is just the beginning of a huge rationalization for allowing
> >> my OCD to run rampant as we stagger toward implementing the 7U
> >> design.
> >>
> >> <shrug>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> --- In ModularSynthPanels@yahoogroups.com, Jeff Laity <synthetic@>
> >> wrote:
> >>>
> >>> Any update on this panel? I vote for a version without verniers if
> >>> possible.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> On Jun 1, 2009, at 9:30 PM, Scott Deyo wrote:
> >>>
> >>>> I'm doing something, but I'm not sure what yet. Maybe a poll will
> >>>> happen, but not for a little while yet....
> >>>>
> >>>> Scott Deyo
> >>>> The Bridechamber
> >>>> contact@
> >>>> http://www.bridechamber.com
> >>>> Jealous Edison Record Kompany
> >>>> http://www.jealousedison.com
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> On May 29, 2009, at 7:24 AM, Jan-Ahrent Czmok wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>> On 27.05.2009, at 04:18, Scott Deyo wrote:
> >>>>>
> >>>>>> The 'ills have some designs they've been working on:
> >>>>>> http://dragonflyalley.com/constructionJHLivingVCO.htm
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Scott Deyo
> >>>>> Will you do a panel run for this design ? i got the living vco kit
> >>>>> with the verniers and really like the design..
> >>>>>
> >>>>> --jan
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> NOTICE: This electronic mail message and its contents, including
> >>> any attachments hereto (collectively, "this e-mail"), is hereby
> >>> designated as "confidential and proprietary." This e-mail may be
> >>> viewed and used only by the person to whom it has been sent and
> >>> his/her employer solely for the express purpose for which it has
> >>> been disclosed and only in accordance with any confidentiality or
> >>> non-disclosure (or similar) agreement between TEAC Corporation or
> >>> its affiliates and said employer, and may not be disclosed to any
> >>> other person or entity.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > ------------------------------------
> >
> > Yahoo! Groups Links
> >
> >
> >
>

On Sep 9, 2009, at 6:54 PM, Scott Deyo wrote:
> So what am I making here? One vernier and one non-?
>
> Keep in mind, this will make each one more expensive.
>
> Thanks,
> Scott Deyo
>
> On Sep 6, 2009, at 10:44 PM, Jeff Laity wrote:
>
>> Any update? I'd love to build this but don't want to wire up a
>> cardboard panel for it. :(
>>
>>
>> On May 26, 2009, at 7:18 PM, Scott Deyo wrote:
>>
>>> The 'ills have some designs they've been working on:
>>> http://dragonflyalley.com/constructionJHLivingVCO.htm
>>>
>>> Scott Deyo
>>> The Bridechamber
>>> contact@...
>>> http://www.bridechamber.com
>>> Jealous Edison Record Kompany
>>> http://www.jealousedison.com
>>>
>>>
>>> On May 25, 2009, at 11:48 AM, adaaxs wrote:
>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> I know this is down the road (wish it wasn't) but are there any
>>>> ideas for JH living vco panels ? is it going to be one w
>>>> controller and add ons or full three w controller like on a
>>>> Moog ? I have been dropping threes of every type I have ever done
>>>> except lfos.
>>>> For me it lvco is an easy build, couldn't resist starting on one.
>>>> I found that the smaller smd bypass caps (1205 ?) are easier to
>>>> attach to the pcb, much neater and I don't melt them.
>>>>

--- In ModularSynthPanels@yahoogroups.com, Scott Deyo <contact@...> wrote:
>
> So what am I making here? One vernier and one non-?
> Keep in mind, this will make each one more expensive.
>
> Thanks,
> Scott Deyo
> contact@...
> The Bridechamber
> www.bridechamber.com
> Jealous Edison Record Kompany
> www.jealousedison.com
>
>
>
>
> On Sep 6, 2009, at 10:44 PM, Jeff Laity wrote:
>
> > Any update? I'd love to build this but don't want to wire up a
> > cardboard panel for it. :(
> >
> >
> >
> > On May 26, 2009, at 7:18 PM, Scott Deyo wrote:
> >
> >> The 'ills have some designs they've been working on:
> >> http://dragonflyalley.com/constructionJHLivingVCO.htm
> >>
> >> Scott Deyo
> >> The Bridechamber
> >> contact@...
> >> http://www.bridechamber.com
> >> Jealous Edison Record Kompany
> >> http://www.jealousedison.com
> >>
> >>
> >> On May 25, 2009, at 11:48 AM, adaaxs wrote:
> >>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> I know this is down the road (wish it wasn't) but are there any
> >>> ideas for JH living vco panels ? is it going to be one w
> >>> controller and add ons or full three w controller like on a Moog ?
> >>> I have been dropping threes of every type I have ever done except
> >>> lfos.
> >>> For me it lvco is an easy build, couldn't resist starting on one.
> >>> I found that the smaller smd bypass caps (1205 ?) are easier to
> >>> attach to the pcb, much neater and I don't melt them.
> >>>
> >>>
> >
> >
> >
>

--- In ModularSynthPanels@yahoogroups.com, Scott Deyo <contact@...> wrote:
>
> So what am I making here? One vernier and one non-?
> Keep in mind, this will make each one more expensive.
>
> Thanks,
> Scott Deyo
> contact@...
> The Bridechamber
> www.bridechamber.com
> Jealous Edison Record Kompany
> www.jealousedison.com
>
>
>
>
> On Sep 6, 2009, at 10:44 PM, Jeff Laity wrote:
>
> > Any update? I'd love to build this but don't want to wire up a
> > cardboard panel for it. :(
> >
> >
> >
> > On May 26, 2009, at 7:18 PM, Scott Deyo wrote:
> >
> >> The 'ills have some designs they've been working on:
> >> http://dragonflyalley.com/constructionJHLivingVCO.htm
> >>
> >> Scott Deyo
> >> The Bridechamber
> >> contact@...
> >> http://www.bridechamber.com
> >> Jealous Edison Record Kompany
> >> http://www.jealousedison.com
> >>
> >>
> >> On May 25, 2009, at 11:48 AM, adaaxs wrote:
> >>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> I know this is down the road (wish it wasn't) but are there any
> >>> ideas for JH living vco panels ? is it going to be one w
> >>> controller and add ons or full three w controller like on a Moog ?
> >>> I have been dropping threes of every type I have ever done except
> >>> lfos.
> >>> For me it lvco is an easy build, couldn't resist starting on one.
> >>> I found that the smaller smd bypass caps (1205 ?) are easier to
> >>> attach to the pcb, much neater and I don't melt them.
> >>>
> >>>
> >
> >
> >
>

> So what am I making here? One vernier and one non-?
> Keep in mind, this will make each one more expensive.

--- In ModularSynthPanels@yahoogroups.com, Ben Stuyts <ben@...> wrote:
>
> On 10 sep 2009, at 03:54, Scott Deyo wrote:
>
> > So what am I making here? One vernier and one non-?
> > Keep in mind, this will make each one more expensive.
>
> I'd like a vernier-style panel. I love the looks of them.
>
> Ben
>

--- In ModularSynthPanels@yahoogroups.com, Jeff Laity <synthetic@...> wrote:
>
> I'd be happy with the 4u version, I don't want half my cabinet taken
> up with this thing. Seems like the module is getting feature creep,
> keeps growing knobs and outputs. Maybe there can be a basic panel and
> expansion panel?
>
>
>
> On Sep 13, 2009, at 12:38 PM, wjhall11 wrote:
>
> > Will and I were talking about this -
> >
> > We think that the two Living VCO panels worth considering are both
> > counting-dial (Vernier) versions; the difference being a 5U and a 7U
> > version.
> >
> > The 5U version uses the smaller knobs for all 16 controls except the
> > three verniers. There are no significant modifications to Jurgen's
> > design or suggested hook-ups. I can't quite recall, but two of the
> > switches may be something Will suggested, but if so, they're very
> > straightforward additions - of that I'm certain.
> >
> > You can read about our ideas and see our panel designs here:http://www.dragonflyalley.com/constructionJHLivingVCO.htm
> >
> > OK - so that's the 5U panel...
> >
> > The other panel worth considering is a 7U design. If you increase
> > the knobs to standard MOTM size, you need 7U of space. You can
> > implement the 7U with the verniers off-set a bit to make more space
> > in the "driver section" for the switches (the design on top on our
> > page), or you can even out the grid as suggested by Greg James (the
> > design below the others on our page).
> >
> > In either of these cases, there's space for an extra row of jacks -
> > so we figured we'd build three wave-shapers into the module... a
> > relatively straightforward thing to do using 3 MFOS VCO pcbs for
> > their wave-shaper circuits.
> >
> > You could implement the 7U panel without the waveshapers and extra
> > row of jacks.
> >
> > But if you really didn't want the verniers, you could do the Rough /
> > Fine tune idea a-la Dave Brown.
> >
> > So to re-cap - I guess here are the choices:
> >
> > 1. Verniers and small knobs 5U
> >
> > 2. Verniers and large knobs 7U, offset verniers and including
> > waveshapers
> >
> > 3. Verniers and large knobs 7U, even verniers and including
> > waveshapers
> >
> > 4. Verniers and large knobs 7U, offset verniers no waveshapers
> >
> > 5. Verniers and large knobs 7U, even verniers no waveshapers
> >
> > 6. No verniers, different design
> >
> > Bill and Will
> >
> >
> > --- In ModularSynthPanels@yahoogroups.com, Ben Stuyts <ben@> wrote:
> > >
> > > On 10 sep 2009, at 03:54, Scott Deyo wrote:
> > >
> > > > So what am I making here? One vernier and one non-?
> > > > Keep in mind, this will make each one more expensive.
> > >
> > > I'd like a vernier-style panel. I love the looks of them.
> > >
> > > Ben
> > >
> >
> >
> >
>

On Sep 13, 2009, at 2:38 PM, "wjhall11" <wjhall@...> wrote:

> Will and I were talking about this -
>
> We think that the two Living VCO panels worth considering are both
> counting-dial (Vernier) versions; the difference being a 5U and a 7U
> version.
>
> The 5U version uses the smaller knobs for all 16 controls except the
> three verniers. There are no significant modifications to Jurgen's
> design or suggested hook-ups. I can't quite recall, but two of the
> switches may be something Will suggested, but if so, they're very
> straightforward additions - of that I'm certain.
>
> You can read about our ideas and see our panel designs here: http://www.dragonflyalley.com/constructionJHLivingVCO.htm
>
> OK - so that's the 5U panel...
>
> The other panel worth considering is a 7U design. If you increase
> the knobs to standard MOTM size, you need 7U of space. You can
> implement the 7U with the verniers off-set a bit to make more space
> in the "driver section" for the switches (the design on top on our
> page), or you can even out the grid as suggested by Greg James (the
> design below the others on our page).
>
> In either of these cases, there's space for an extra row of jacks -
> so we figured we'd build three wave-shapers into the module... a
> relatively straightforward thing to do using 3 MFOS VCO pcbs for
> their wave-shaper circuits.
>
> You could implement the 7U panel without the waveshapers and extra
> row of jacks.
>
> But if you really didn't want the verniers, you could do the Rough /
> Fine tune idea a-la Dave Brown.
>
> So to re-cap - I guess here are the choices:
>
> 1. Verniers and small knobs 5U
>
> 2. Verniers and large knobs 7U, offset verniers and including
> waveshapers
>
> 3. Verniers and large knobs 7U, even verniers and including
> waveshapers
>
> 4. Verniers and large knobs 7U, offset verniers no waveshapers
>
> 5. Verniers and large knobs 7U, even verniers no waveshapers
>
> 6. No verniers, different design
>
> Bill and Will
>
>
>
>
> --- In ModularSynthPanels@yahoogroups.com, Ben Stuyts <ben@...> wrote:
>>
>> On 10 sep 2009, at 03:54, Scott Deyo wrote:
>>
>>> So what am I making here? One vernier and one non-?
>>> Keep in mind, this will make each one more expensive.
>>
>> I'd like a vernier-style panel. I love the looks of them.
>>
>> Ben
>>
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>

--- In ModularSynthPanels@yahoogroups.com, "John L Rice" <Drummer@...> wrote:
>
> Hi All,
>
>
>
> I'm not planning on building this but I read all of these
> construction/planning with interest! ;-)
>
>
>
> I may have missed the discussion so forgive my rambling if I have, but in
> case not, there are several different diameter counting dials available that
> could be considered in the design. While the large ones look the coolest to
> me, there are counting dials that are only about the same diameter as a 10
> turn pot which would work well for a more compact design while still keeping
> the turn counting functionality. In fact, I think the small counter is
> slightly smaller in diameter than a standard MOTM knob. I've uploaded a
> comparison picture to photo album in this group called "Stuff by JLR"
> Here's the link to the knob on Digikey's site:
>
> http://search.digikey.com/scripts/DkSearch/dksus.dll?Detail&name=H-22-6A-ND
>
>
>
> John L Rice
>
>
>
> From: ModularSynthPanels@yahoogroups.com
> [mailto:ModularSynthPanels@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of wjhall11
> Sent: Sunday, September 13, 2009 12:39 PM
> To: ModularSynthPanels@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [ModularSynthPanels] Re: Living VCO
>
>
>
>
>
> Will and I were talking about this -
>
> We think that the two Living VCO panels worth considering are both
> counting-dial (Vernier) versions; the difference being a 5U and a 7U
> version.
>
> The 5U version uses the smaller knobs for all 16 controls except the three
> verniers. There are no significant modifications to Jurgen's design or
> suggested hook-ups. I can't quite recall, but two of the switches may be
> something Will suggested, but if so, they're very straightforward additions
> - of that I'm certain.
>
> You can read about our ideas and see our panel designs here:
> http://www.dragonflyalley.com/constructionJHLivingVCO.htm
>
> OK - so that's the 5U panel...
>
> The other panel worth considering is a 7U design. If you increase the knobs
> to standard MOTM size, you need 7U of space. You can implement the 7U with
> the verniers off-set a bit to make more space in the "driver section" for
> the switches (the design on top on our page), or you can even out the grid
> as suggested by Greg James (the design below the others on our page).
>
> In either of these cases, there's space for an extra row of jacks - so we
> figured we'd build three wave-shapers into the module... a relatively
> straightforward thing to do using 3 MFOS VCO pcbs for their wave-shaper
> circuits.
>
> You could implement the 7U panel without the waveshapers and extra row of
> jacks.
>
> But if you really didn't want the verniers, you could do the Rough / Fine
> tune idea a-la Dave Brown.
>
> So to re-cap - I guess here are the choices:
>
> 1. Verniers and small knobs 5U
>
> 2. Verniers and large knobs 7U, offset verniers and including waveshapers
>
> 3. Verniers and large knobs 7U, even verniers and including waveshapers
>
> 4. Verniers and large knobs 7U, offset verniers no waveshapers
>
> 5. Verniers and large knobs 7U, even verniers no waveshapers
>
> 6. No verniers, different design
>
> Bill and Will
>
>
> --- In ModularSynthPanels@yahoogroups.com
> <mailto:ModularSynthPanels%40yahoogroups.com> , Ben Stuyts <ben@> wrote:
> >
> > On 10 sep 2009, at 03:54, Scott Deyo wrote:
> >
> > > So what am I making here? One vernier and one non-?
> > > Keep in mind, this will make each one more expensive.
> >
> > I'd like a vernier-style panel. I love the looks of them.
> >
> > Ben
> >
>

--- In ModularSynthPanels@yahoogroups.com, Paul Lord <plord@...> wrote:
>
> Forgive me if I missed this, but, is anyone building this with the Tobias'
> parts kit? Are THOSE the verniers we are discussing in this thread, or some
> other part I'm not clear about?
>
> Paul
>
> On Sun, Sep 13, 2009 at 2:35 PM, Scott K Warren <scott@...> wrote:
>
> >
> >
> > 3. Verniers & large knobs, 7U, even verniers, and including waveshapers!
> >
> > skw
> >
> > Sent from my iPhone
> >
> >
> > On Sep 13, 2009, at 2:38 PM, "wjhall11" <wjhall@...<wjhall%40ix.netcom.com>>
> > wrote:
> >
> > > Will and I were talking about this -
> > >
> > > We think that the two Living VCO panels worth considering are both
> > > counting-dial (Vernier) versions; the difference being a 5U and a 7U
> > > version.
> > >
> > > The 5U version uses the smaller knobs for all 16 controls except the
> > > three verniers. There are no significant modifications to Jurgen's
> > > design or suggested hook-ups. I can't quite recall, but two of the
> > > switches may be something Will suggested, but if so, they're very
> > > straightforward additions - of that I'm certain.
> > >
> > > You can read about our ideas and see our panel designs here:
> > http://www.dragonflyalley.com/constructionJHLivingVCO.htm
> > >
> > > OK - so that's the 5U panel...
> > >
> > > The other panel worth considering is a 7U design. If you increase
> > > the knobs to standard MOTM size, you need 7U of space. You can
> > > implement the 7U with the verniers off-set a bit to make more space
> > > in the "driver section" for the switches (the design on top on our
> > > page), or you can even out the grid as suggested by Greg James (the
> > > design below the others on our page).
> > >
> > > In either of these cases, there's space for an extra row of jacks -
> > > so we figured we'd build three wave-shapers into the module... a
> > > relatively straightforward thing to do using 3 MFOS VCO pcbs for
> > > their wave-shaper circuits.
> > >
> > > You could implement the 7U panel without the waveshapers and extra
> > > row of jacks.
> > >
> > > But if you really didn't want the verniers, you could do the Rough /
> > > Fine tune idea a-la Dave Brown.
> > >
> > > So to re-cap - I guess here are the choices:
> > >
> > > 1. Verniers and small knobs 5U
> > >
> > > 2. Verniers and large knobs 7U, offset verniers and including
> > > waveshapers
> > >
> > > 3. Verniers and large knobs 7U, even verniers and including
> > > waveshapers
> > >
> > > 4. Verniers and large knobs 7U, offset verniers no waveshapers
> > >
> > > 5. Verniers and large knobs 7U, even verniers no waveshapers
> > >
> > > 6. No verniers, different design
> > >
> > > Bill and Will
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > --- In ModularSynthPanels@yahoogroups.com<ModularSynthPanels%40yahoogroups.com>,
> > Ben Stuyts <ben@> wrote:
> > >>
> > >> On 10 sep 2009, at 03:54, Scott Deyo wrote:
> > >>
> > >>> So what am I making here? One vernier and one non-?
> > >>> Keep in mind, this will make each one more expensive.
> > >>
> > >> I'd like a vernier-style panel. I love the looks of them.
> > >>
> > >> Ben
> > >>
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > ------------------------------------
> > >
> > > Yahoo! Groups Links
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
>

On Sun, Sep 13, 2009 at 10:01 PM, wjhall11 <wjhall@...> wrote:

 

Hi Paul - We're not discussing any specific counting dial. In the 5U or 7U layouts there is space for a variety of dials as long as they're within the space available - up to 1.9in dia. would fit for sure. The Bourns H-550 dial (Mouser# 652-H-550-6A) is 1.8 in, so is the H-46, and ETI's MF46-L. So if the Vernier supplied by Tobias is within this allowance, it'll fit in any of these 5U and 7U designs. Bill

--- In ModularSynthPanels@yahoogroups.com, Paul Lord <plord@...> wrote:
>
> Forgive me if I missed this, but, is anyone building this with the Tobias'
> parts kit? Are THOSE the verniers we are discussing in this thread, or some
> other part I'm not clear about?
>
> Paul
>
> On Sun, Sep 13, 2009 at 2:35 PM, Scott K Warren <scott@...> wrote:
>
> >
> >
> > 3. Verniers & large knobs, 7U, even verniers, and including waveshapers!
> >
> > skw
> >
> > Sent from my iPhone
> >
> >
> > On Sep 13, 2009, at 2:38 PM, "wjhall11" <wjhall@...<wjhall%40ix.netcom.com>>
> > wrote:
> >
> > > Will and I were talking about this -
> > >
> > > We think that the two Living VCO panels worth considering are both
> > > counting-dial (Vernier) versions; the difference being a 5U and a 7U
> > > version.
> > >
> > > The 5U version uses the smaller knobs for all 16 controls except the
> > > three verniers. There are no significant modifications to Jurgen's
> > > design or suggested hook-ups. I can't quite recall, but two of the
> > > switches may be something Will suggested, but if so, they're very
> > > straightforward additions - of that I'm certain.
> > >
> > > You can read about our ideas and see our panel designs here:
> > http://www.dragonflyalley.com/constructionJHLivingVCO.htm
> > >
> > > OK - so that's the 5U panel...
> > >
> > > The other panel worth considering is a 7U design. If you increase
> > > the knobs to standard MOTM size, you need 7U of space. You can
> > > implement the 7U with the verniers off-set a bit to make more space
> > > in the "driver section" for the switches (the design on top on our
> > > page), or you can even out the grid as suggested by Greg James (the
> > > design below the others on our page).
> > >
> > > In either of these cases, there's space for an extra row of jacks -
> > > so we figured we'd build three wave-shapers into the module... a
> > > relatively straightforward thing to do using 3 MFOS VCO pcbs for
> > > their wave-shaper circuits.
> > >
> > > You could implement the 7U panel without the waveshapers and extra
> > > row of jacks.
> > >
> > > But if you really didn't want the verniers, you could do the Rough /
> > > Fine tune idea a-la Dave Brown.
> > >
> > > So to re-cap - I guess here are the choices:
> > >
> > > 1. Verniers and small knobs 5U
> > >
> > > 2. Verniers and large knobs 7U, offset verniers and including
> > > waveshapers
> > >
> > > 3. Verniers and large knobs 7U, even verniers and including
> > > waveshapers
> > >
> > > 4. Verniers and large knobs 7U, offset verniers no waveshapers
> > >
> > > 5. Verniers and large knobs 7U, even verniers no waveshapers
> > >
> > > 6. No verniers, different design
> > >
> > > Bill and Will
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > --- In ModularSynthPanels@yahoogroups.com<ModularSynthPanels%40yahoogroups.com>,
> > Ben Stuyts <ben@> wrote:
> > >>
> > >> On 10 sep 2009, at 03:54, Scott Deyo wrote:
> > >>
> > >>> So what am I making here? One vernier and one non-?
> > >>> Keep in mind, this will make each one more expensive.
> > >>
> > >> I'd like a vernier-style panel. I love the looks of them.
> > >>
> > >> Ben
> > >>
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > ------------------------------------
> > >
> > > Yahoo! Groups Links
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
>

No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
Version: 8.5.409 / Virus Database: 270.13.88/2357 - Release Date: 09/14/09 05:51:00

--- In ModularSynthPanels@yahoogroups.com, "Frank Vanaman" <fvanaman@...> wrote:
>
> Hi all-
>
>
>
> That's the issue I'm thinking about as well. I bought the TS-parts kit too,
> and after looking at the very compact counting dial, it would actually seem
> somewhat odd to have them on a panel that's big enough to accommodate much
> larger counting dials.
>
>
>
> Also considering that the actual knob is notably smaller than the dial body,
> having it along-side other knobs that are just about as big as the whole
> counting dial body might seem a bit odd as well. Hmmm.
>
>
>
> Did somebody ask for another can of worms to be opened? :-)
>
>
>
> At any rate, I'm just following along at this point. Obviously I'm going to
> have to come up with a panel (actually two) from somewhere at some point.but
> still in the head-scratching phase. Actually I'm in that phase most of the
> time.
>
>
>
> Frank
>
>
>
> _____
>
> From: ModularSynthPanels@yahoogroups.com
> [mailto:ModularSynthPanels@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Paul Lord
> Sent: Monday, September 14, 2009 11:14 AM
> To: ModularSynthPanels@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: Re: [ModularSynthPanels] Re: Living VCO
>
>
>
>
>
> Thanks Bill. Tobias' verniers are much smaller than those so they ought to
> work fine. Whether they will LOOK ok from a spacing perspective remains to
> be seen :)
>
> Paul
>
> On Sun, Sep 13, 2009 at 10:01 PM, wjhall11 <wjhall@...
> <mailto:wjhall@...> com> wrote:
>
>
>
> Hi Paul - We're not discussing any specific counting dial.
>
> No virus found in this incoming message.
> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
> Version: 8.5.409 / Virus Database: 270.13.88/2357 - Release Date: 09/14/09
> 05:51:00
>