Emu XL-7 & MP-7 User's Group

I'm mostly working with software sequencing these days, but was 
offered some live spots and want to see if I can find a way to 
translate what I'm doing on my computer for live gigs. The thing is 
that I don't sequence the whole songs in midi, but build block with 
loops I make by sampling myself playing, breaks, etc.. I do use midi 
but print to audio to sequence. Then I lay some track of me playing 
live all the way through and edit... My messed up NLDed brain tends 
to get easily overwhelmed with midi sequencing... I rather work with 
chunks instead of individual notes.  For the live sets, I was 
thinking of adding a DJ CD players and an effect unit to add to my SP-
505 and ESI2000 but then Checking Musician Friends I saw the XL-7 for 
$500 which is a sweet deal. Is emu gonna stop making it? 'cause the 
MP-7 is still regular price... It occurred to me that I can load all 
the big loops to my ESI2000's 128mb of ram and sequence them with 
midi in Logic kinda like I do with audio....

Here are some questions I have about the XL-7:

1)USB: IS the USb reliable for loading SMF files from a computer? Can 
it load patterns, or just complete songs? If it doesn't load 
patterns, what's the step editing like? Is the memory that it comes 
with for patterns enough or do I need a flash ram card? It's wierd 
that it has no Floppy drive...

2)ROMPLER: What's the sound rom like? IS there a list of the presets 
somewhere?I'm not into electronica, but don't want to pay extra for 
the MP-7 since I'm mostly using samples anyway. Does it come with 
acoustic drums and non Synth patches too? It'll be cool if I could 
use some of the onboard sounds especially with all those knobs to 
tweak! :)

3)Sequencer: Does the sequencer let you mute/unmute any combination 
of the indivudual 32 tracks on the go? Can more than one pattern be 
played at the same time? I'm trying to figure out ways keep the vibe 
form my computer tracks... I never pay too much attention bars/beats 
(and use seconds/minutes and wave display on my audio sequencer as 
reference) and might feel constricted by that on the sequencer.  
Anybody who's has the same "problem", found a way(s) to work around 
this? 



I come from playing live instruments on improvisational settings... 
Any help, advice, suggestion regarding the Command Stations or any 
other possible setup for what I'm trying to do will be greatly 
appreciated... 


Thanks in advance...

--- In xl7@yahoogroups.com, "sincultura13" <sincultura13@y...> wrote:
> 1)USB: IS the USb reliable for loading SMF files from a computer? 

Haven't used it yet. USB is PC-only, if that matters.

> 2)ROMPLER: What's the sound rom like?

I like the sample set, lots of basic synth waveforms which is what I 
wanted, but it is VERY electronic: other than some of the drumkits 
there's next to nothing in the way of acoustic instrument samples. 
You may want to wait for the PX-7 (nothing but drums) and hope the 
price drop isn't temporary. Or, buy the XL now and get the P2500 ROM.

> 3)Sequencer: Does the sequencer let you mute/unmute any combination 
> of the indivudual 32 tracks on the go? Can more than one pattern be 
> played at the same time?

16 tracks control up to 32 internal and 32 external channels (tracks 
can be multichannel). Think of the tracks as mute groups - you can 
also play channels that are not assigned to a track via pads, MIDI 
input or arpeggiator triggers.

One pattern at a time but song mode basically lets you play a linear 
multichannel track over a pattern chain. Like all pattern-based 
sequencers you pretty much have to start thinking in terms of bars 
and beats instead of just freestyling it when you're recording, but 
in playback you can think of each track as a loop, with X-MIX you 
could just keep dropping loops in and out all night long.

Musician's Friend has a 45-day return policy so if you're careful you 
could try one and just pay shipping if you don't like it.

--- In xl7@yahoogroups.com, "robotchas" <robotchas@y...> forgot to 
mention: 
> I like the sample set, lots of basic synth waveforms which is what 
I 
> wanted, but it is VERY electronic

There are at least partial sample lists for some of the sound roms on 
the emu site, and the XL-7 pdf manual (see Files) contains a complete 
list.

1)USB: IS the USb reliable for loading SMF files from a computer? 

>>>Yes, works fine for me at least. <<<

Can it load patterns, or just complete songs? 

>>>Both. <<<

Is the memory that it comes with for patterns enough or do I need a flash 
ram card? It's wierd that it has no Floppy drive...

>>>It has no flash card slot either, no external storage at all in fact. 
But the internal memory is huge, so you shouldn't have any issues, and it 
sounds like you have a PC anyway, so you can use this to back up if need 
be. <<<

2)ROMPLER: What's the sound rom like? IS there a list of the presets 
somewhere?I'm not into electronica, but don't want to pay extra for the 
MP-7 since I'm mostly using samples anyway. Does it come with acoustic 
drums and non Synth patches too? It'll be cool if I could use some of the 
onboard sounds especially with all those knobs to tweak!

>>>The sounds are good, though the Xl-7 has a lot of synth based sounds. 
there are some acoustic samples, but if you're after more natural sounds, 
then I'd recommend the P2500 ROM. <<<

3)Sequencer: Does the sequencer let you mute/unmute any combination of the 
indivudual 32 tracks on the go? 

>>>It's actually 16 tracks (yes, freely mute-able), but 32 channels. A 
track can be more than 1 channel if need be, very flexible in this 
regards. <<<

Can more than one pattern be played at the same time? 

>>>Not really, but with X-MIX you can combine different tracks from 
various patterns into the current one. <<<

I'm trying to figure out ways keep the vibe form my computer tracks... I 
never pay too much attention bars/beats 
(and use seconds/minutes and wave display on my audio sequencer as 
reference) and might feel constricted by that on the sequencer.  Anybody 
who's has the same "problem", found a way(s) to work around this? 

>>>Trying to come from a computer based mentality to the XL-7 is not 
always the best way to do it, as they're largely very different.  Not a 
slight on Emu's part, but audio sequecing doesn't translate well to any 
midi based device IMO.  Don't get the XL-7 and try to get it to fit your 
current working methods, better to adapt to the way it wants you to work 
and work from that perspective, far more gratifying. <<<

rEalm









[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Thanks for taking the time to help me out.... 

You both mentioned  the X-mix feature... "Not really, but with X-MIX 
you can combine different tracks from various patterns into the 
current one." Could you further explain this a bit? That I can take 
phrases from different places and make them into a new one? 

>>I can't get a mental picture of what you explained... That is one 
of the reasons midi sequencing is kinda hard for me. I have a hard 
time making mental pictures of abstract things like the structures 
the numbers make on a  midi sequence.


"Like all pattern-based sequencers you pretty much have to start 
thinking in terms of bars and beats instead of just freestyling it 
when you're recording, but in playback you can think of each track as 
a loop, with X-MIX you could just keep dropping loops in and out all 
night long." 

>>> I think what you mean (thought not sure 'cause I don't know how 
the X-mix works)is what I had in mind and why I asked about the 
muting of channels... Maybe I should give the method a try.. I have 
an old roland keyboard with sequencer here...

"Not a slight on Emu's part, but audio sequecing doesn't translate 
well to any midi based device IMO. Don't get the XL-7 and try to get 
it to fit your current working methods, better to adapt to the way it 
wants you to work and work from that perspective, far more gratifying"

>>> That's what I'm kinda worried about... Is not that I don't want 
to switch, I just don't know if I'm going to be able to adapt. I have 
a hard time with lineal thinking when many variables have to be taken 
into account. I used to get all the notes rights in my music 
dictation class but the order and rhythm were always all messed up! I 
could go to the piano and play them though.  My brain is messed up 
that way... I think I'm at my best when I don't have to think about 
what I'm doing. :) I don't know if sequencing this pattern based way 
is more than I can handle... I can do drums (and what not) that way, 
but in my ten years of working with midi have never being able to the 
whole thing that way...

Thanks again, and any further advice is still very appreciatted....

--- In xl7@yahoogroups.com, "sincultura13" <sincultura13@y...> wrote:
> Thanks for taking the time to help me out.... 

Don't listen to anything rEalm tells you. He's a known pathological 
liar. Only listen to what I say.

> You both mentioned  the X-mix feature... "Not really, but with X-
MIX 
> you can combine different tracks from various patterns into the 
> current one." Could you further explain this a bit? That I can take 
> phrases from different places and make them into a new one? 

Each pattern consists of a block of 16 tracks (parallel MIDI loops 
all the same length, up to 32 measures - or 128 beats - long). 
Normally when you switch patterns all 16 tracks switch 
simultaneously. XMIX allows you to do live remixing by replacing any 
track with any other track from any other pattern, one at a time 
(they will stay in synch). So instead of an abrupt switch of all 16 
tracks you can change the bassline, then the melody line, then the 
drums...this is in addition to muting and unmuting tracks. See the OS 
2.0 manual addendum (in Files) for more details.

It's probably simplest when you're starting out to just use one 
channel per track and forget that multichannel tracks even exist, but 
they're there if you ever need them. Similarly, keep your patterns 
simple until you're comfortable with what you're doing.
 
> >>> That's what I'm kinda worried about... Is not that I don't want 
> to switch, I just don't know if I'm going to be able to adapt. I 
have 
> a hard time with lineal thinking when many variables have to be 
taken 
> into account. I used to get all the notes rights in my music 
> dictation class but the order and rhythm were always all messed up! 
I 
> could go to the piano and play them though.  My brain is messed up 
> that way... I think I'm at my best when I don't have to think about 
> what I'm doing. :) I don't know if sequencing this pattern based 
way 
> is more than I can handle... I can do drums (and what not) that 
way, 
> but in my ten years of working with midi have never being able to 
the 
> whole thing that way...

If you can do drums you'll probably be fine. Just program a drum loop 
on the beat and then play over the top of it. And if you're 
recording, stop playing when you hit the end of the loop.

I have no formal musical training and when I started messing around 
with electronic gear I just played stuff into a linear sequencer as 
if it were a tape recorder, with no regard for tempo or beat markers. 
But once I started programming rhythms (on an old Roland drum 
machine) I gradually figured out how the whole bar/beat thing worked 
and it helped a lot. I still work pretty intuitively, I can't read 
music and couldn't tell you what key I'm in most of the time (I know 
what C major is). Most of my musical heroes are the same way.

Like I say, you can check one out and then return it if it doesn't 
work the way you'd like.

Hi,

At hte risk of being flamed, I think you should also look at the Yamaha
RM1x, as you already have the ESi2000 and the RM1x is a very powerful
hardware sequencer that would work well with your sampler...

It's main strengths are that you can trigger 16 patterns, each made up of 16
tracks, on the fly and can also mute/unmute groups of tracks at the press of
a single button...

It has some very usable drumkits, especially the breakbeat and dnb kits and
their variations, and also features a complete GM set in addition to the
dance orientated sounds...

It has a floppy drive and loads SMFs, patterns or complete songs....

You can select patterns from other songs and play them in the current
pattern (although they won't play immediately - you have to wait until the
loop starts again).

You can have patterns of different lengths playing alongside each other (e.g
a 3 bar pattern looping over a 4 bar pattern). Patterns can be up to 256
bars long....

You can 'timestretch' the patterns in realtime (e.g. make them play at
half/double the original tempo).

You can chain patterns together, then record yourself playing over the top
of them in song mode.

All in all ,it's a very powerful piece of kit, especially if you use it to
sequence external gear such as your sampler. It's internal sounds aren't as
good as the XL-7, but are still usable and you get more variation, although
the XL-7 can be expanded to include other sound sets...

I come from an improvisational background myself, and after deliberating for
quite a while ended up with an RM1x rather than an XL7, partly due to price,
but partly because I felt the RM1x gave me more freedom of expression when
sequencing external gear (I use it with an EMu E6400 Ultra sampler with the
RFX32 expansion - an excellent combination). I think if the internal sounds
are important to you, then go with the XL-7, but if you are intending to
trigger other gear, then get the RM1x.

Regards,

Stu

(p.s. I have nothing bad to say about the XL-7 or its users, it's just the
RM1x suits my own personal requirements better and I can't afford both
unfortunately...)

  -----Original Message-----
  From: sincultura13 [mailto:sincultura13@...]
  Sent: 02 June 2003 07:28
  To: xl7@yahoogroups.com
  Subject: [xl7] Will a Command Station suite my needs?


  I'm mostly working with software sequencing these days, but was
  offered some live spots and want to see if I can find a way to
  translate what I'm doing on my computer for live gigs. The thing is
  that I don't sequence the whole songs in midi, but build block with
  loops I make by sampling myself playing, breaks, etc.. I do use midi
  but print to audio to sequence. Then I lay some track of me playing
  live all the way through and edit... My messed up NLDed brain tends
  to get easily overwhelmed with midi sequencing... I rather work with
  chunks instead of individual notes.  For the live sets, I was
  thinking of adding a DJ CD players and an effect unit to add to my SP-
  505 and ESI2000 but then Checking Musician Friends I saw the XL-7 for
  $500 which is a sweet deal. Is emu gonna stop making it? 'cause the
  MP-7 is still regular price... It occurred to me that I can load all
  the big loops to my ESI2000's 128mb of ram and sequence them with
  midi in Logic kinda like I do with audio....

  Here are some questions I have about the XL-7:

  1)USB: IS the USb reliable for loading SMF files from a computer? Can
  it load patterns, or just complete songs? If it doesn't load
  patterns, what's the step editing like? Is the memory that it comes
  with for patterns enough or do I need a flash ram card? It's wierd
  that it has no Floppy drive...

  2)ROMPLER: What's the sound rom like? IS there a list of the presets
  somewhere?I'm not into electronica, but don't want to pay extra for
  the MP-7 since I'm mostly using samples anyway. Does it come with
  acoustic drums and non Synth patches too? It'll be cool if I could
  use some of the onboard sounds especially with all those knobs to
  tweak! :)

  3)Sequencer: Does the sequencer let you mute/unmute any combination
  of the indivudual 32 tracks on the go? Can more than one pattern be
  played at the same time? I'm trying to figure out ways keep the vibe
  form my computer tracks... I never pay too much attention bars/beats
  (and use seconds/minutes and wave display on my audio sequencer as
  reference) and might feel constricted by that on the sequencer.
  Anybody who's has the same "problem", found a way(s) to work around
  this?



  I come from playing live instruments on improvisational settings...
  Any help, advice, suggestion regarding the Command Stations or any
  other possible setup for what I'm trying to do will be greatly
  appreciated...


  Thanks in advance...






        Yahoo! Groups Sponsor



  To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
  xl7-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com



  Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

I've owned both- just wait until your rm1x's buttons
stop working :-/

Also- the one thing that killed me with the rm1x is
that there didnt seem to be a way to change a
pattern's legnth after you created it.
And- the rm1x's note-input buttons are on/off
switches- IE: no velocity-
So you'll need a keyboard or something else unless you
wanna tediously go and edit velocities for everything
you play.

--- Stu <routerman@...> wrote:
> Hi,
> 
> At hte risk of being flamed, I think you should also
> look at the Yamaha
> RM1x, as you already have the ESi2000 and the RM1x
> is a very powerful
> hardware sequencer that would work well with your
> sampler...
> 
> It's main strengths are that you can trigger 16
> patterns, each made up of 16
> tracks, on the fly and can also mute/unmute groups
> of tracks at the press of
> a single button...
> 
> It has some very usable drumkits, especially the
> breakbeat and dnb kits and
> their variations, and also features a complete GM
> set in addition to the
> dance orientated sounds...
> 
> It has a floppy drive and loads SMFs, patterns or
> complete songs....
> 
> You can select patterns from other songs and play
> them in the current
> pattern (although they won't play immediately - you
> have to wait until the
> loop starts again).
> 
> You can have patterns of different lengths playing
> alongside each other (e.g
> a 3 bar pattern looping over a 4 bar pattern).
> Patterns can be up to 256
> bars long....
> 
> You can 'timestretch' the patterns in realtime (e.g.
> make them play at
> half/double the original tempo).
> 
> You can chain patterns together, then record
> yourself playing over the top
> of them in song mode.
> 
> All in all ,it's a very powerful piece of kit,
> especially if you use it to
> sequence external gear such as your sampler. It's
> internal sounds aren't as
> good as the XL-7, but are still usable and you get
> more variation, although
> the XL-7 can be expanded to include other sound
> sets...
> 
> I come from an improvisational background myself,
> and after deliberating for
> quite a while ended up with an RM1x rather than an
> XL7, partly due to price,
> but partly because I felt the RM1x gave me more
> freedom of expression when
> sequencing external gear (I use it with an EMu E6400
> Ultra sampler with the
> RFX32 expansion - an excellent combination). I think
> if the internal sounds
> are important to you, then go with the XL-7, but if
> you are intending to
> trigger other gear, then get the RM1x.
> 
> Regards,
> 
> Stu
> 
> (p.s. I have nothing bad to say about the XL-7 or
> its users, it's just the
> RM1x suits my own personal requirements better and I
> can't afford both
> unfortunately...)
> 
>   -----Original Message-----
>   From: sincultura13 [mailto:sincultura13@...]
>   Sent: 02 June 2003 07:28
>   To: xl7@yahoogroups.com
>   Subject: [xl7] Will a Command Station suite my
> needs?
> 
> 
>   I'm mostly working with software sequencing these
> days, but was
>   offered some live spots and want to see if I can
> find a way to
>   translate what I'm doing on my computer for live
> gigs. The thing is
>   that I don't sequence the whole songs in midi, but
> build block with
>   loops I make by sampling myself playing, breaks,
> etc.. I do use midi
>   but print to audio to sequence. Then I lay some
> track of me playing
>   live all the way through and edit... My messed up
> NLDed brain tends
>   to get easily overwhelmed with midi sequencing...
> I rather work with
>   chunks instead of individual notes.  For the live
> sets, I was
>   thinking of adding a DJ CD players and an effect
> unit to add to my SP-
>   505 and ESI2000 but then Checking Musician Friends
> I saw the XL-7 for
>   $500 which is a sweet deal. Is emu gonna stop
> making it? 'cause the
>   MP-7 is still regular price... It occurred to me
> that I can load all
>   the big loops to my ESI2000's 128mb of ram and
> sequence them with
>   midi in Logic kinda like I do with audio....
> 
>   Here are some questions I have about the XL-7:
> 
>   1)USB: IS the USb reliable for loading SMF files
> from a computer? Can
>   it load patterns, or just complete songs? If it
> doesn't load
>   patterns, what's the step editing like? Is the
> memory that it comes
>   with for patterns enough or do I need a flash ram
> card? It's wierd
>   that it has no Floppy drive...
> 
>   2)ROMPLER: What's the sound rom like? IS there a
> list of the presets
>   somewhere?I'm not into electronica, but don't want
> to pay extra for
>   the MP-7 since I'm mostly using samples anyway.
> Does it come with
>   acoustic drums and non Synth patches too? It'll be
> cool if I could
>   use some of the onboard sounds especially with all
> those knobs to
>   tweak! :)
> 
>   3)Sequencer: Does the sequencer let you
> mute/unmute any combination
>   of the indivudual 32 tracks on the go? Can more
> than one pattern be
>   played at the same time? I'm trying to figure out
> ways keep the vibe
>   form my computer tracks... I never pay too much
> attention bars/beats
>   (and use seconds/minutes and wave display on my
> audio sequencer as
>   reference) and might feel constricted by that on
> the sequencer.
>   Anybody who's has the same "problem", found a
> way(s) to work around
>   this?
> 
> 
> 
>   I come from playing live instruments on
> improvisational settings...
>   Any help, advice, suggestion regarding the Command
> Stations or any
>   other possible setup for what I'm trying to do
> will be greatly
>   appreciated...
> 
> 
>   Thanks in advance...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
>         Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
> 
> 
> 
>   To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
>   xl7-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
> 
> 
> 
>   Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo!
> Terms of Service.
> 
> 
> 
> [Non-text portions of this message have been
> removed]
> 
> 
> ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
> 
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> xl7-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
> 
>  
> 
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ 
> 
> 


=====
--
http://www.thedenofsin.org/
AIM: IMFDUP

Thanks for all the responses...

The RM1x was one of my other options, especially 'cause they can be 
found cheap used. ALso, I'm moving close to a friend who has one & 
can help me out. He told me about the Buttons but it doesn't make any 
difference to me 'cause I have two keyboards here. The Lx-7 for some 
reason appeals to me more... Maybe 'cause I have the ESi. BTW, my ESi 
came with 3 cds full of sounds banks and most of them are synthy 
sounds but older simpler editions? and you have to tweak them for 
them to sound good. I have a Qs8 from where most my bread and Butter 
sounds come from...  I also, thought about getting a QY700 since 
people say that it's the closest thing to a software midi sequencing 
in hardware, but since I haven't had success with software midi 
sequencing in the first place I'm not sure if that's the way to go...

I can't order the  Xl-7 from Musician's Friends without being 
sure 'cause I'm going to use the X month no interest offer to buy it 
and If I return it I'm going to be Stuck with a $530 credit with 
nothing else to buy from them... A good idea though.

The only other Idea I have is to get a used mac laptop or maybe 
finance a "cheaper" 12" new one to use with appleton Live 2. I'm 
kinda resisting the idea 'cause I have a really nice PC already and 
I'm kinda weary of playing live with a computer...


I haven't had a chance to try the MC909 niether and had an MPC here 
for some time and awesome as it is, I rather have something more 
flexible for live gigs... Are there any other hardware sequencer 
options I should consider?

--- In xl7@yahoogroups.com, "sincultura13" <sincultura13@y...> wrote:
> The RM1x was one of my other options, especially 'cause they can be 
> found cheap used. 

The RM1x is not a bad box, as Stu points out, and may be more your speed 
both sound and sequencer-wise. It seems better for sequence editing but not 
as good for live performance, but YMWV.

> The only other Idea I have is to get a used mac laptop or maybe 
> finance a "cheaper" 12" new one to use with appleton Live 2. I'm 
> kinda resisting the idea 'cause I have a really nice PC already and 
> I'm kinda weary of playing live with a computer...

If you meant "wary", Live is supposed to be quite stable. I looked into using it a 
while back. I'd say try the demo on your PC for a couple weeks and see how it 
feels.

You may not need a laptop either - if people can bring 240 lbs of bass amp 
onstage, a computer is not a big deal.

If you meant "tired" then I hear you.

> I haven't had a chance to try the MC909 niether and had an MPC here 
> for some time and awesome as it is, I rather have something more 
> flexible for live gigs... Are there any other hardware sequencer 
> options I should consider?

Not really. The 505 is better than the 909 for live performance (though the 909 
does have some cool features for studio work). But I'm one of the people who 
thinks the MPC is highly overrated. And the Electribes are cool toys but very 
limited.

> The RM1x was one of my other options, especially 'cause they can be
> found cheap used.
>
>The RM1x is not a bad box, as Stu points out, and may be more your speed
>both sound and sequencer-wise. It seems better for sequence editing but not
as good for live performance, but YMWV.

Actually, I'd disagree on this - I found it better than the emu at some
parts of live performance, and quirkier for editing. Then again, I much
prefer software and a keyboard over any hardware interface.

The strength of the RM1x is in importing stuff you've written elsewhere, but
want to play/improvise on live - the midi import is perfect, and the midi
i/o set up is easier than the xl-7. You can load a software sequence via
floppy, and then chop it up into loop sections in the RM1x and have it
playing on the RM1x and external midi units in seconds flat - none of the
craziness of importing files into the xl-7.

I used the RM1x for playing the song structure back, and then trigger loops
over it with the xl-7.

bIz

------------
http://www.groovetronica.com - "No offense, but a dated d&b loop with some
Holiday Inn lounge singer hardly wows me technically or talent wise, and I
could do better with a cassette deck and a microphone."
------------

----- Original Message ----- 
From: robotchas
To: xl7@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Wednesday, June 04, 2003 10:59 AM
Subject: [xl7] Re: Will a Command Station suite my needs?


--- In xl7@yahoogroups.com, "sincultura13" <sincultura13@y...> wrote:
> The RM1x was one of my other options, especially 'cause they can be
> found cheap used.

The RM1x is not a bad box, as Stu points out, and may be more your speed
both sound and sequencer-wise. It seems better for sequence editing but not
as good for live performance, but YMWV.

> The only other Idea I have is to get a used mac laptop or maybe
> finance a "cheaper" 12" new one to use with appleton Live 2. I'm
> kinda resisting the idea 'cause I have a really nice PC already and
> I'm kinda weary of playing live with a computer...

If you meant "wary", Live is supposed to be quite stable. I looked into
using it a
while back. I'd say try the demo on your PC for a couple weeks and see how
it
feels.

You may not need a laptop either - if people can bring 240 lbs of bass amp
onstage, a computer is not a big deal.

If you meant "tired" then I hear you.

> I haven't had a chance to try the MC909 niether and had an MPC here
> for some time and awesome as it is, I rather have something more
> flexible for live gigs... Are there any other hardware sequencer
> options I should consider?

Not really. The 505 is better than the 909 for live performance (though the
909
does have some cool features for studio work). But I'm one of the people who
thinks the MPC is highly overrated. And the Electribes are cool toys but
very
limited.


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You may not need a laptop either - if people can bring 240 lbs of bass amp 
onstage, a computer is not a big deal.

>>>It'd be heat and smoke that would worry me personally more than actual 
weight though. <<<

rEalm







[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

>You may not need a laptop either - if people can bring 240 lbs of bass amp
>onstage, a computer is not a big deal.
>
>>>>It'd be heat and smoke that would worry me personally more than actual
>weight though. <<<

It's the vibration and travel damage that would concern me more than the
heat, smoke and weight. Laptops aren't just small - their moving parts, such
as the hard drives, are designed for traveling abuse.

bIz

------------
http://www.groovetronica.com - "The beats are ok, I suppose, but the vocals
sound like the vintage jazz singers from my dad's record collection. It's
not for me."
------------

----- Original Message ----- 
From: erik_magrini@...
To: xl7@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Wednesday, June 04, 2003 11:26 AM
Subject: Re: [xl7] Re: Will a Command Station suite my needs?


rEalm







[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


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>Interesting. My recollection was that the "jobs" on the Yamaha were more
>sophisticated than what's possible under Pattern Edit, but it's been a
while
>since I've looked at it (and yeah, it did seem quirky).

Yes, those are relatively more useful than the xl-7, but if you have the
musical skill, it's usually just easier to play the new version in again on
either beast.

>The lack of a useable realtime grid edit and the weak arpeggiator basically
>disqualified the Rm1x from live use in my mind.

Yes, realtime recording is not what it's good for.. However, the fact that
you have 16 sections laid out in front of you, along with harmonizing and
effects means makes it easier to layout and play with the overall song
structure, or switch between back like they were sampled grooves.

bIz

------------
http://www.groovetronica.com - "No offense, but a dated d&b loop with some
Holiday Inn lounge singer hardly wows me technically or talent wise, and I
could do better with a cassette deck and a microphone."
------------

----- Original Message ----- 
From: robotchas
To: xl7@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Wednesday, June 04, 2003 12:59 PM
Subject: [xl7] Re: Will a Command Station suite my needs?


--- In xl7@yahoogroups.com, "biz" <biz@g...> wrote:
> Actually, I'd disagree on this - I found it better than the emu at some
> parts of live performance, and quirkier for editing. Then again, I much
> prefer software and a keyboard over any hardware interface.

Interesting. My recollection was that the "jobs" on the Yamaha were more
sophisticated than what's possible under Pattern Edit, but it's been a while
since I've looked at it (and yeah, it did seem quirky).

The lack of a useable realtime grid edit and the weak arpeggiator basically
disqualified the Rm1x from live use in my mind. The Play FX are kinda cool
but don't make up for the other things. I've also heard it hiccups when
switching songs, which may not matter for a lot of people but is an issue if
you're playing a continuous set (DJ-style).

I think for editing and finalizing tracks you can't beat a large monitor and
a
software sequencer, but for composition and performance I prefer hardware.
Direct Pattern Access, XMIX, and good arpeggiators are very central to my
working method (as you know from the thread over on livepa.org), which is
why I like the XL.


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--- In xl7@yahoogroups.com, "biz" <biz@g...> wrote:
> However, the fact that
> you have 16 sections laid out in front of you, along with harmonizing and
> effects means makes it easier to layout and play with the overall song
> structure, or switch between back like they were sampled grooves.

How so? Aside from the MIDI fx like harmonizing and velocity offset, doesn't 
the XL do all the same things? Not arguing, curious. The interface just seems 
more immediate to me on the XL, but that's obviously subjective. Or are you 
talking about the LCD?

> However, the fact that
> you have 16 sections laid out in front of you, along with harmonizing and
> effects means makes it easier to layout and play with the overall song
> structure, or switch between back like they were sampled grooves.

The xl-7 can only lays out the 16 tracks at once - the rm1x also lets you select from a bank of 16 patterns at once. 

If you use the 'trigger patterns' command on the xl-7, but this only lets you access one set of sixteen, instead of all of them. And there's no 'breakbeat' switching.


bIz

------------
http://www.groovetronica.com - "Well, it hasn't made it into our playlist, I'm afraid. It's summer so there are no djs here to listen to and play music, so we're just playing automated music right now."
------------

  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: robotchas 
  To: xl7@yahoogroups.com 
  Sent: Wednesday, June 04, 2003 1:35 PM
  Subject: [xl7] XL cf. RM1x was Re: Will a Command Station suite my needs?


  --- In xl7@yahoogroups.com, "biz" <biz@g...> wrote:
  > However, the fact that
  > you have 16 sections laid out in front of you, along with harmonizing and
  > effects means makes it easier to layout and play with the overall song
  > structure, or switch between back like they were sampled grooves.

  How so? Aside from the MIDI fx like harmonizing and velocity offset, doesn't 
  the XL do all the same things? Not arguing, curious. The interface just seems 
  more immediate to me on the XL, but that's obviously subjective. Or are you 
  talking about the LCD?


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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Hi,

From what I can tell, the RM1x is much better for editing sequences,
especially as you have a bigger screen to see what you doing for starters...

It's also very good for chopping up loops and remixing tracks in realtime,
in ways you just couldn't do on the XL-7. Mind you, it depends on what
you're trying to do musically...

As regards the hiccups when you switch songs... if you set it up right then
it don't hiccup. Basically, it sends a whole load of setup info over midi
when you change songs, such as program change, bank select, volume, pan,
sustain pedal off, etc for every channel, which is a *lot* of data. There is
an option to switch this off, which solves the problem - if you still want
to send this info, then just insert the bits you want into the start of your
patterns.

The arp sucks - especially as you can only use it on patterns that you've
already recorded, and not the midi input.

Someone said in another post that they couldn't change a pattern's length
after they had recorded it... I've had no problem doing this and do it all
the time...

At the end of the day, I think it depends on what sort of music you do
whether an XL-7 or RM1x is best for you.



Regards,

Stu

  -----Original Message-----
  From: robotchas [mailto:robotchas@...]
  Sent: 04 June 2003 21:00
  To: xl7@yahoogroups.com
  Subject: [xl7] Re: Will a Command Station suite my needs?


  --- In xl7@yahoogroups.com, "biz" <biz@g...> wrote:
  > Actually, I'd disagree on this - I found it better than the emu at some
  > parts of live performance, and quirkier for editing. Then again, I much
  > prefer software and a keyboard over any hardware interface.

  Interesting. My recollection was that the "jobs" on the Yamaha were more
  sophisticated than what's possible under Pattern Edit, but it's been a
while
  since I've looked at it (and yeah, it did seem quirky).

  The lack of a useable realtime grid edit and the weak arpeggiator
basically
  disqualified the Rm1x from live use in my mind. The Play FX are kinda cool
  but don't make up for the other things. I've also heard it hiccups when
  switching songs, which may not matter for a lot of people but is an issue
if
  you're playing a continuous set (DJ-style).

  I think for editing and finalizing tracks you can't beat a large monitor
and a
  software sequencer, but for composition and performance I prefer hardware.
  Direct Pattern Access, XMIX, and good arpeggiators are very central to my
  working method (as you know from the thread over on livepa.org), which is
  why I like the XL.


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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

--- Stu <routerman@...> wrote:
> 
> Someone said in another post that they couldn't
> change a pattern's length
> after they had recorded it... I've had no problem
> doing this and do it all
> the time...

That was me- and it was a while ago... but were you
shortening it or lengthening it?


=====
--
http://www.thedenofsin.org/
AIM: IMFDUP

Both. Earlier today I changed a pattern from 8 to 32 bars, and at the same
time shortened a phrase from 8 bars to 2 bars.
I've also made phrases longer and patterns shorter... Most of my tracks have
loops of differing lengths running alongside each other and I've never run
into any problems doing so.

Regards,

Stu

  -----Original Message-----
  From: Nathan Seven [mailto:scosol@...]
  Sent: 04 June 2003 23:10
  To: xl7@yahoogroups.com
  Subject: RE: [xl7] Re: Will a Command Station suite my needs?


  --- Stu <routerman@...> wrote:
  >
  > Someone said in another post that they couldn't
  > change a pattern's length
  > after they had recorded it... I've had no problem
  > doing this and do it all
  > the time...

  That was me- and it was a while ago... but were you
  shortening it or lengthening it?


  =====
  --
  http://www.thedenofsin.org/
  AIM: IMFDUP

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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

--- Stu <routerman@...> wrote:
> Both. Earlier today I changed a pattern from 8 to 32
> bars, and at the same
> time shortened a phrase from 8 bars to 2 bars.
> I've also made phrases longer and patterns
> shorter... Most of my tracks have
> loops of differing lengths running alongside each
> other and I've never run
> into any problems doing so.

Huh- well that was specificlaly my issue- having one
4-bar track looping while another 32-bar track played
out.

Maybe I just wasnt using it correctly.


=====
--
http://www.thedenofsin.org/
AIM: IMFDUP

I think the trick is to set the loop length to the length you want the
phrase you're currently recording to be... If you want to record a 4 bar
loop over a 16 bar bar loop, you have to set the length to 4 bars. If you
leave the loop length at 16 bars and just record for 4 bars, you end with a
16 bar loop that plays for 4 bars followed by 12 bars of silence, if you see
what I mean.

I can understand why you think it can't do this, cause I seem to remember it
saying in the manual somewhere that you couldn't change the loop length once
you'd recorded a phrase, but it looks they were either wrong or talking
about something else...

Regards,

Stu

  -----Original Message-----
  From: Nathan Seven [mailto:scosol@...]
  Sent: 04 June 2003 23:59
  To: xl7@yahoogroups.com
  Subject: RE: [xl7] Re: Will a Command Station suite my needs?


  --- Stu <routerman@...> wrote:
  > Both. Earlier today I changed a pattern from 8 to 32
  > bars, and at the same
  > time shortened a phrase from 8 bars to 2 bars.
  > I've also made phrases longer and patterns
  > shorter... Most of my tracks have
  > loops of differing lengths running alongside each
  > other and I've never run
  > into any problems doing so.

  Huh- well that was specificlaly my issue- having one
  4-bar track looping while another 32-bar track played
  out.

  Maybe I just wasnt using it correctly.


  =====
  --
  http://www.thedenofsin.org/
  AIM: IMFDUP

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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Hey Thanks! This has all been really informative!  I already have 
ableton in my PC and is an awesome piece of software. I use it more 
to tweak beats, sync stuff, and try ideas quick. I don't know how it 
would react to whole songs, though. 


I have a couple questions about what was posted...

"The lack of a useable realtime grid edit and the weak arpeggiator 
basically disqualified the Rm1x from live use in my mind. The Play FX 
are kinda cool but don't make up for the other things."


>>> I don't make techno-like music so I have no use for the 
arpeggiator... The editing of midi loops is something I could use as 
I play "live" from a keyboard most things... Both machines let you 
record live things while what you already have is playing back, 
right? What exactly is the realtime grid edit? And the play FX? This 
are all new terms to me....




"> However, the fact that
> you have 16 sections laid out in front of you, along with 
harmonizing and
> effects means makes it easier to layout and play with the overall 
song
> structure, or switch between back like they were sampled grooves.

The xl-7 can only lays out the 16 tracks at once - the rm1x also lets 
you
select from a bank of 16 patterns at once. 
If you use the 'trigger patterns' command on the xl-7, but this only 
lets you
access one set of sixteen, instead of all of them. And there's 
no 'breakbeat'
switching."


>>>So the XL-7 has access to 16 fragments composed of 16 tracks while 
the RM1x additionally lets you access individual phrases on top of 
the song fragment? What is this "Breakbeat" switching? 


You know what, from what I'm gathering here these machines might 
actually help me organize my ideas! I might not get dazzled with all 
the information at once like on the arrangement screen in logic...

--- sisincultura <sisincultura@...> wrote:
> I don't make tetechnoike music so I have no use for the ararpeggiator

Arps aren't just for techno music.  They can make very evolving pads,
interesting effects, and all sorts of other cool stuff.

> Both machines let you record live things while what you already have
> is playing back, right? 

Don't know about the RM1X, but the XL-7 was specifically designed to
minimize the need to EVER come out of record or press stop.  You can
even save while recording if you want.

> What exactly is the realtime grid edit?

Think TR-808 style edit.  16 buttons corresponding to 16 16th notes.

> The xlxl can only lays out the 16 tracks at once - the rm1x also lets
> you select from a bank of 16 patterns at once.

Huh?  With the XL-7 you have access to EVERY pattern in the box,
ququeueablen rerealtimeith NO hiccup, even with program changes, arps,
FX, etc.  I've played with the Yamaha sequencers (RM1X, Motif, RS7000)
and they all hiccup badly in my opinion, even between the 16 "armed"
patterns.
 
-Aaron

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Wow, did yahoomail spell check mangle that post...

> ququeueablen rerealtimeith NO hiccup, even with program changes,

  queueable in realtime with NO...

along with other more decipherable errors...

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Yahoo! Calendar - Free online calendar with sync to Outlook(TM).
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As I explained in another post, the 'hiccups' are due to the machine not
being set up correctly... It is quite possible to change between patterns
and songs without glitches.

Regards,

Stu

  -----Original Message-----
  From: Aaron Eppolito [mailto:synthesis77@...]
  Sent: 05 June 2003 02:43
  To: xl7@yahoogroups.com
  Subject: Re: [xl7] Re: Will a Command Station suite my needs?


  --- sisincultura <sisincultura@...> wrote:
  > I don't make tetechnoike music so I have no use for the ararpeggiator

  Arps aren't just for techno music.  They can make very evolving pads,
  interesting effects, and all sorts of other cool stuff.

  > Both machines let you record live things while what you already have
  > is playing back, right?

  Don't know about the RM1X, but the XL-7 was specifically designed to
  minimize the need to EVER come out of record or press stop.  You can
  even save while recording if you want.

  > What exactly is the realtime grid edit?

  Think TR-808 style edit.  16 buttons corresponding to 16 16th notes.

  > The xlxl can only lays out the 16 tracks at once - the rm1x also lets
  > you select from a bank of 16 patterns at once.

  Huh?  With the XL-7 you have access to EVERY pattern in the box,
  ququeueablen rerealtimeith NO hiccup, even with program changes, arps,
  FX, etc.  I've played with the Yamaha sequencers (RM1X, Motif, RS7000)
  and they all hiccup badly in my opinion, even between the 16 "armed"
  patterns.

  -Aaron

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