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first thoughts on px7

first thoughts on px7

2007-07-29 by alaskahighway

is it just me or are the sounds on the px7 quite, dare i say it, boring 
& 'safe'?  i read somewhere a few weeks ago that the px7 was good 
for 'acoustic & industrial kits'.   where are these industrial kits??  
and why so many keyboard sounds?  i thought that this was supposed to 
be a drum machine?


i've run thru the presets twice now & hear nothing that my alesis dm 
pro can't do better.  ok, apart from the sequencing & interface!  but 
as my midi sequencer does that job very well i'm desperately trying to 
think of a reason to keep this px7.

seriously dissappointed.

}:-(
moose @ midizoo

Re: [xl7] first thoughts on px7

2007-07-29 by Bob S.

Look at the waveform (instrument) listing of the PX-7 ROM....see the Appendix of the manual....there are over 750 individual samples and about 65 prebuilt kits (sample kits, not preset kits).  I would think you can make a few acoustic/industrial kits from that...especially with the number of filter variations that are available.  If you are looking at kits built by Emu as presets, there will be much less in terms of way out percussive sounds as a factory preset is built to give a flavor of the genres available....not a final kit.  If you look at the number of samples, they could not have possibly created enough kits to use all of them.....switch out the samples in the kits with those that suite your music and lastly, use filters and modulations to add some distinctive characteristics...some no way possible with the DM5 (I sold mine last year for some other gear).  In addition, the PX-7 is a 16 track sequencer, this is no typical drum machine and much more flexible.....read the manual....and play with it for a while....the presets are just starting points to something better.....

I use a XL-7 with several ROMs including a PX-7 ROM, so I have the same as a PX-7.


Bob
El Segundo, CA
Show quoted textHide quoted text
  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: alaskahighway 
  To: xl7@yahoogroups.com 
  Sent: Sunday, July 29, 2007 12:44 PM
  Subject: [xl7] first thoughts on px7



  is it just me or are the sounds on the px7 quite, dare i say it, boring 
  & 'safe'? i read somewhere a few weeks ago that the px7 was good 
  for 'acoustic & industrial kits'. where are these industrial kits?? 
  and why so many keyboard sounds? i thought that this was supposed to 
  be a drum machine?

  i've run thru the presets twice now & hear nothing that my alesis dm 
  pro can't do better. ok, apart from the sequencing & interface! but 
  as my midi sequencer does that job very well i'm desperately trying to 
  think of a reason to keep this px7.

  seriously dissappointed.

  }:-(
  moose @ midizoo



   

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Re: first thoughts on px7

2007-07-29 by cimerian83

Hi,

Indeed the machine is well for the acoustic kits, you will need the
Romanian techno-yard-synthe, or X-lead for the Kits industrialist! 
They are better !

Cordially












--- In xl7@yahoogroups.com, "alaskahighway" <midizoo@...> wrote:
Show quoted textHide quoted text
>
> 
> is it just me or are the sounds on the px7 quite, dare i say it, boring 
> & 'safe'?  i read somewhere a few weeks ago that the px7 was good 
> for 'acoustic & industrial kits'.   where are these industrial kits??  
> and why so many keyboard sounds?  i thought that this was supposed to 
> be a drum machine?
> 
> 
> i've run thru the presets twice now & hear nothing that my alesis dm 
> pro can't do better.  ok, apart from the sequencing & interface!  but 
> as my midi sequencer does that job very well i'm desperately trying to 
> think of a reason to keep this px7.
> 
> seriously dissappointed.
> 
> }:-(
> moose @ midizoo
>

Re: [xl7] Re: first thoughts on px7

2007-07-29 by moose

>Indeed the machine is well for the acoustic kits, you will need the
>Romanian techno-yard-synthe, or X-lead for the Kits industrialist! 
>They are better !

i didnt think much of the XL7's kit sounds as they were mostly x0x style drum machines, which i have enough of.

my drum machine list is quite large and i'm thinking that the px7, unless there are some gems not in the default patches, doesn't give me anything new.

current list : alesis dm pro, emu procussion, kawai xd-5, korg esx-1, roland r8m (2) & td10ex, waldorf attack vsti & yamaha rm50.   plus additional sound cards on the alesis qs series, emu e4xt samplers & yamaha sy77/tg77.

i'll play this week and see if i can find any decent sounds.


as for the sequencing, well, my apple ibook running cubase vst does a good job.  if the px7 doesn't have any useable sounds then the interface alone is not worth the $500 i can sell it for.

}:-)
moose @ midizoo

Re: [xl7] first thoughts on px7

2007-07-30 by Mauricio Balma

In my opinion, EMU Command Station is a good machine.  I have 14 hardware synths, and sold a lot, and the EMU is one of the synths I`m gonna keep for the rest of my life.
   
  Is a great synth for controlling and sequencing via MIDI other synths.  The strenght of the EMU is not the sounds but the sequencer applications.  
   
  In a process of music composition working in a hardware synths MIDI environment, is very useful for recording, organizing and storing your ideas in a fast way.  You don`t have to STOP/PLAY and leaving and entering menus and screens and waiting for processes and all that crap.  While you`re playing, you can easily switch tracks, save, enter and leave record and edition processes, modify MIDI setups, etc.  Is the best hardware sequencer I have found in the hardware market.
   
  But in a reasonable way But I deffinitly would improve a lot of features like:
   
  There are no decimal or fractions for the MIDI clock.  This is very uncomfortable when manipulating samples that have, for example, 130.5 bpm.  I can`t understand why such a good sequencer for controlling other synths, doesn`t have fractions on the clock, it`s obvious you need accurate time for MIDI purposes.
   
  There`s no GAIN offset or depth for the controllers.  I mean, you should have, on the Controllers Global Menu, a global parameter modification for the knobs.  
   
  When you move a knob, most of the times the software knob tweak doesn`t reflect accuracy 
  on the parameter you are accessing.  For example,  when entering notes on the step grid record mode, you have tweaked the knob just 75% of its range, but the entered note reflects the top value (127).  I will love more accuracy when tweaking sounds or entering notes or gate times. A true relationship between the knob range and the parameter range.  
   
  you assign a knob for the LFO rate. but you have to assign it only a very low value, because if you put  KNOB A ----> LFO rate 100%  (just an example)  with just the 2% of the knob movement, you already reached the highest LFO rate.  Why not more accuracy???.  this could be improved with a KNOB gain offset global regulation.   I would forget the "pan mixing" on the useless MIX button and put instead the pan, a 16 knob offset parameter
   
  I also miss a lot of parameters on the Destinations.  I miss Delay Start, or reverse sample.  But this is not any tragedy. I love the cords function, but I miss more accuracy on its tweaks.
   
   
  but definitly, the worst of the EMU command station is its "Effect" section.  Honestly, is the worst effect section I have use ever.   NO EQ?? not even 3 bands eq!!!.  I won`t spend time thinking on all the effects missing on the EMU.  
   
  Is a must a section effect on a synth that bases its sound power on ROM samples.  The lot of Filters can`t substitute a good effect section, because there are only a couple of standard parameters, so, as a effect substitute, the filters are rigid and definitly boring.
   
   
  A good way to improve the EMU sounds, is to practice a lot with the LINK function.  Such a cool feature.  You can improve the sounds a lot, using 12 waves.  And the knob programming for a linked patch is astonishing.  The linked patches  don`t lose their knob parameters! but you can`t browse the patches by category on the link screen...
   
  I won`t waste your time writing more,  I just say again, by experience, that the command station is a good investment.  I play live, and the EMU have helped me a lot putting order on a hardware synth chaos.  I control synths like the ROLAND V Synth or an analogic AKAI AX 60 and a JUNO 106 with the EMU.  Just find the best usage for yours...
   
   
   
   
  

"Bob S." <tttsystems@...> wrote:
          Look at the waveform (instrument) listing of the PX-7 ROM....see the Appendix of the manual....there are over 750 individual samples and about 65 prebuilt kits (sample kits, not preset kits). I would think you can make a few acoustic/industrial kits from that...especially with the number of filter variations that are available. If you are looking at kits built by Emu as presets, there will be much less in terms of way out percussive sounds as a factory preset is built to give a flavor of the genres available....not a final kit. If you look at the number of samples, they could not have possibly created enough kits to use all of them.....switch out the samples in the kits with those that suite your music and lastly, use filters and modulations to add some distinctive characteristics...some no way possible with the DM5 (I sold mine last year for some other gear). In addition, the PX-7 is a 16 track sequencer, this is no typical drum machine and much more
 flexible.....read the manual....and play with it for a while....the presets are just starting points to something better.....

I use a XL-7 with several ROMs including a PX-7 ROM, so I have the same as a PX-7.

Bob
El Segundo, CA
Show quoted textHide quoted text
----- Original Message ----- 
From: alaskahighway 
To: xl7@yahoogroups.com 
Sent: Sunday, July 29, 2007 12:44 PM
Subject: [xl7] first thoughts on px7

is it just me or are the sounds on the px7 quite, dare i say it, boring 
& 'safe'? i read somewhere a few weeks ago that the px7 was good 
for 'acoustic & industrial kits'. where are these industrial kits?? 
and why so many keyboard sounds? i thought that this was supposed to 
be a drum machine?

i've run thru the presets twice now & hear nothing that my alesis dm 
pro can't do better. ok, apart from the sequencing & interface! but 
as my midi sequencer does that job very well i'm desperately trying to 
think of a reason to keep this px7.

seriously dissappointed.

}:-(
moose @ midizoo

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[xl7] first thoughts on px7

2007-07-30 by moose

> In my opinion, EMU Command Station is a good machine.  I have 14
> hardware synths, and sold a lot, and the EMU is one of the synths
> I`m gonna keep for the rest of my life.

i have a shed-load as well, and my 'keeper' is my yellow waldorf q!

i think i need to delve a bit deeper before i can get attached to it to any great extent.  its odd that some synths are instant & some aren't - within 10 minutes of me opening up my yamaha sy77 i was bitten...

   
> Is a great synth for controlling and sequencing via MIDI other
> synths.  The strenght of the EMU is not the sounds but the
> sequencer applications.  

in which case it'll not be much use to me!  but i do like the 4x4 grid of knobs, though a lot of controller keyboard have assignable knobs these days.

the biggest reason why i dont use hardware sequencers (i started on an akai asq10 all those years ago) is the lack of multiple midi outputs.  my mac now has 32 midi outputs...  thats 32 seperate midi outputs courtesy of 4 steinberg midex8s.  one of them is dedicated to just accessing my drum machines, and with steinberg's LTB encoding the midi response is really really good.

   
> You don`t have to STOP/PLAY and leaving and entering menus and
> screens and waiting for processes and all that crap.

in a way i agree with you - too many people write music with their eyes and not their ears.  i've been using cubase for so long that i dont need to think about what i want to do, i just do it.


> Is the best hardware sequencer I have found in the hardware
> market.

you've not played on an akai asq10 then eh?  i can use that thing blindfolded, in a dark room with both hands tied behind my back.  the OS on that thing was rock solid and worked like a charm.  in a way i still wish i had one, but 4 seperate outs isnt enough...

    
> There are no decimal or fractions for the MIDI clock.  This is
> very uncomfortable when manipulating samples that have, for
> example, 130.5 bpm.

you could slightly detune the sample at the source.


and yes, your niggles list is a good list.  the little things actually add up to quite a lot!


>  but definitly, the worst of the EMU command station is
> its "Effect" section.

lots of decent synths dont have eq.  if you look a the emu as an all-in-one production centre then yes i agree with you, but how many drum machines do you know that have an effects section as good as the px7?

anywa,s for me i also have a shed-load of outboard so the seperate outputs would be put in to good use.

  
> I won`t waste your time writing more,  I just say again, by
> experience, that the command station is a good investment.

one mans lotus elise is another mans ford crappo.  have they made a 'crappo' yet?  };-)


> I play live, and the EMU have helped me a lot putting order on a
> hardware synth chaos.  I control synths like the ROLAND V Synth
> or an analogic AKAI AX 60 and a JUNO 106 with the EMU.  Just find
> the best usage for yours...

there's no way i'm taking my system live - a) most of the stages aren't big enough & b) decent power would be an issue!!!  so we tend to go live with either a stereo backing mix from a cd whilst overdubbing 2-3 synths & electronic drums, or run the stereo from a laptop sending out midi sync to arpeggios on synths.

but yes, i'll spend some time playing before i make any decisions.  its just a shame theres no 'instant' grab sounds.


and thanks for your long reply.  most appreciated.

}:-)
moose @ midizoo

Re: first thoughts on px7

2007-07-31 by paolovalladolid

Welcome to the group!  Enjoyed your posts on daw-mac, though I hardly
read daw-mac anymore.

What led you to the PX7, given your already respectable equipment
collection?  

I picked up my XL7 because it appealed to me as a songwriting tool
that was available at a very attractive price (just missed Guitar
Center's dump of the Command Station product line when Emu decided to
abandon hardware products - but did snag some expansion ROMS at
blowout prices just in time, and scored the XL7 off ebay).  It's still
the main tool for coming up with core songwriting ideas.

The Command Stations can do some things that are still unusual
compared to other hardware synths - microtuning of all 127 MIDI notes,
modulation matrix comparable to modular synths (Ian/aeon famously
declared this type of synth being a modular synth masquerading as a
ROMpler), super powerful arpeggiator, etc.  The PX7 may have been
marketed as a drum machine, but it's really a Command Station
(integrated synth/sequencer with drum machine-like UI) with a
different default ROM than the XL7.  I have all four ROM slots filled
in my XL7 and one of the ROMs is the PX7 ROM.  I'm more likely to use
the PX7 sounds in conjuction with sounds from other ROMS than by
themselves.  Having played with real drummers, the last thing I want
to do is try to beat them at their own game.

This is a classic Harmony Central thread which is a gold mine of info
 on the Command Stations - my head still aches whenever I reread the
posts there :):

http://acapella.harmony-central.com/forums/showthread.php?t=554937 

--- In xl7@yahoogroups.com, "alaskahighway" <midizoo@...> wrote:
Show quoted textHide quoted text
>
> 
> is it just me or are the sounds on the px7 quite, dare i say it, boring 
> & 'safe'?  i read somewhere a few weeks ago that the px7 was good 
> for 'acoustic & industrial kits'.   where are these industrial kits??  
> and why so many keyboard sounds?  i thought that this was supposed to 
> be a drum machine?
> 
> 
> i've run thru the presets twice now & hear nothing that my alesis dm 
> pro can't do better.  ok, apart from the sequencing & interface!  but 
> as my midi sequencer does that job very well i'm desperately trying to 
> think of a reason to keep this px7.
> 
> seriously dissappointed.
> 
> }:-(
> moose @ midizoo
>

Re: [xl7] Re: first thoughts on px7

2007-07-31 by moose

> Welcome to the group!  Enjoyed your posts on daw-mac, though I
> hardly read daw-mac anymore.

that list can get a bit heavy sometimes!  as someone who's still on '90s technology i'm flying the flag for older hardware...  *lol*


> What led you to the PX7, given your already respectable equipment
> collection?  

simple : i can never have too many drum sounds!!!  i tend to layer a lot of stuff together so being able to pick'n'choose gives me a wider palette to work with.

its quite interesting using the older hardware - we played a few shows last year and a lot of people where asking what software i was using to create the 'amazingly dynamic' drum sounds.  just a little old r8m module with 3 cards!!  *lol*


> but did snag some expansion ROMS at
> blowout prices just in time, and scored the XL7 off ebay).

if i do keep the PX7 i'll add the rob pappen chips, at around $200 a piece.  some of the ones on ebay are duplicates ie not originals.  i've got some of the same soundset on the e4xtultra & like them enough to have them in the command station, simply for convenience sake.  i could then take the px7 & my ibook out to mate's places & have a really good workstation.


> The PX7 may have been marketed as a drum machine, but it's really
> a Command Station with a different default ROM than the XL7.

well, the command station design was a good one, though has a few flaws, so changing the roms is the easy bit.  oh, and the paint job!  i just wish they'd left off the synth sounds and added more noises on the px7.


> I have all four ROM slots filled in my XL7 and one of the ROMs is
> the PX7 ROM.  I'm more likely to use the PX7 sounds in conjuction
> with sounds from other ROMS than by themselves.

layering is the key.  this is why i sometimes have 4 or 5 drum tracks running at the same time, subtle differences in the timing, adding extra oomph in sections of songs etc.  its not what you've got but how you use it that counts!!

also, if i have a distorted drum loop (from say the esx-1) running in a track then the drum machine 'sounds' like a machine.  adding the 'live' drum from the td10ex sounds even more live, as the brain hears a loop & a drum machine so the top cant be another machine...


> Having played with real drummers, the last thing I want
> to do is try to beat them at their own game.

you can do things they can't...  so use the machines to add extra bite.


my live rig is rather fun

<http://www.alaskahighway.com/pictures/tkc-mbblue2.jpg>

this is a picture of me playing my 'drum kit' at the key club last year.  even drummers dont initially understand what the drumtree is, but its just a bunch of triggers.  but playing standing up, with both weird noises and 'traditional' sounds gets people's attention.  its fun too, and i come up with drum ideas that i'd not necessarily think of on the keyboard or drum brain.  i usually play the drums from the black & white keys (20+ years training in that department!) so hitting things is actually rather fun...

right, i need lunch!

}:-)
moose @ alaskahighway

[xl7] Re: first thoughts on px7

2007-07-31 by moose

>simple : i can never have too many drum sounds!!!

i've just bought the rob papen 'beats garden' chip, so looks like i'm keeping the PX7...

more drums anyone?

}x-o
moose @ alaskahighway

Re: first thoughts on px7

2007-08-01 by paolovalladolid

--- In xl7@yahoogroups.com, moose <midizoo@...> wrote:
>
>                 
> > Welcome to the group!  Enjoyed your posts on daw-mac, though I
> > hardly read daw-mac anymore.
> 
> that list can get a bit heavy sometimes!  as someone who's still on
'90s technology i'm flying the flag for older hardware...  *lol*

I was able to glean some useful info and a few individuals were
helpful.  But my most expensive mic is a Sennheiser e906 ($150 at
Chuck Levin's) and the closest thing I have to a monitoring system is
the headphones I plug into my MOTU 828MkII - I'm not a fit for the
group. ;) Our band's recording session should be interesting - I
learned the hard way (feedback) to turn the Roland KC-350 amp we'll be
using as a "monitor" away from the e906 (and us as well).

> > What led you to the PX7, given your already respectable equipment
> > collection?  
> 
> simple : i can never have too many drum sounds!!!  i tend to layer a
lot of stuff together so being able to pick'n'choose gives me a wider
palette to work with.

Good enough reason!  Apparently a bunch of the Command Station
drumkits have mapped keys left intentionally empty to facilitate
custom kits.  The control of sample start, loop length, etc. that Aeon
mentions is something I have yet to look into. 

> > but did snag some expansion ROMS at
> > blowout prices just in time, and scored the XL7 off ebay).
> 
> if i do keep the PX7 i'll add the rob pappen chips, at around $200 a
piece.  some of the ones on ebay are duplicates ie not originals. 
i've got some of the same soundset on the e4xtultra & like them enough
to have them in the command station, simply for convenience sake.  i
could then take the px7 & my ibook out to mate's places & have a
really good workstation.

Good luck on the chip search (congrats on getting your first expansion
chip, btw.)! My bargain finds are the Vintage Collection and Protean
Drums (the PX7 ROM) chips.  The World Expedition cost me quite a bit
more, but still under $200 - not close to the outrageous prices I saw
for it elsewhere.  I got it specifically for the ethnic percussion
samples, esp. gamelan.  I love the 70s/80s keyboard sounds in the VC
ROM (e.pianos, organs, analog synths, etc.).  

> > Having played with real drummers, the last thing I want
> > to do is try to beat them at their own game.
> 
> you can do things they can't...  so use the machines to add extra bite.

The trick, I'm finding, is to play with a drummer who is comfortable
playing with machines. ;)

> my live rig is rather fun
> 
> <http://www.alaskahighway.com/pictures/tkc-mbblue2.jpg>
> 
> this is a picture of me playing my 'drum kit' at the key club last
year.  even drummers dont initially understand what the drumtree is,
but its just a bunch of triggers.  but playing standing up, with both
weird noises and 'traditional' sounds gets people's attention.  its
fun too, and i come up with drum ideas that i'd not necessarily think
of on the keyboard or drum brain.  i usually play the drums from the
black & white keys (20+ years training in that department!) so hitting
things is actually rather fun...

Cool looking rig, man!

Paolo

[xl7] Re: first thoughts on px7

2007-08-04 by moose

ooops...  i've just ebay'd the second rob papen chip for my px7!!

maybe i should have just bought an orbit 3 instead...?

}x-o
moose @ midizoo

Re: first thoughts on px7

2007-08-06 by paolovalladolid

--- In xl7@yahoogroups.com, moose <midizoo@...> wrote:
>
> 
> ooops...  i've just ebay'd the second rob papen chip for my px7!!
> 
> maybe i should have just bought an orbit 3 instead...?
> 
> }x-o
> moose @ midizoo

Ah, so you didn't get any Papen chips?

As I recall, Techno Synth Construction Whateva was the one to get. 
Beats Garden... opinions vary on that one.

Universal thumbs up went to Vintage Collection though. :)

[xl7] Re: first thoughts on px7

2007-08-06 by moose

> Ah, so you didn't get any Papen chips?

the original px7 was the bare bones protean drums...  so i've now added the rack ears, techno synth & beats garden - both papen's efforts.


> As I recall, Techno Synth Construction Whateva was the one to
> get. Beats Garden... opinions vary on that one.

interesting - i've been looking around & its a 50% split between the 2.  which is actually good as it means that having both chips adds a lot to the command stations width.  i liked some of the sounds on the beat garden, but my jungle mate loved a lot of the sequences so looks like he'll be wanting to borrow my px7 soon!!  *lol*  i should charge rent!

i'm about to install the techno chip, but i remember that the e4xtultra had a techno cdrom which i liked, so i'm expecting a lot from this chip!


> Universal thumbs up went to Vintage Collection though. :)

i have a load of pcmcia cards for my alesis quadraynths so i have little use for the vintage card on the emu.  some of these alesis cards are worth buying a qsr for as a dedicated player - amazing quality...  again, only if you're after those kinds of sounds though!!!  hehehe...

i bought the sanctuary/gothic card for one particular sound on one track, but have used it several times since, most recently laying a string choir from the card with strings from both the yamaha sy77 & waldorf q.  the way the sounds interacted, producing more like a texture than a sound, is lovely.

i'll post some of the tunes i produce in the next couple of months - busy with alaskahighway, building332 and among the weeds.

where's my screwdriver!?

}:-)
moose @ midizoo

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