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Re: [xl7] Unbalanced features?

Re: [xl7] Unbalanced features?

2002-02-18 by erik_magrini@Baxter.com




I was a little "shocked" by the endless possibilities. And I know I´m never gonna use it. After reading it I felt like "damn, you need to be an engineer to use the real strengths of this machine". Unlike somebody else in this group I do not think this chapter is well written. Parts are simply overexplained but then again an overview
and working examples are missing.


>>>I agree, the manual breaks out the Preset editing functions into too many sections. Still, don't say you'll never need those features, you'd be surprised! <<<

I remember a market research study saying that most synthi users are tweaking their own sounds way less than you might think. If I took my limited time to compose songs and die care about all theses features I would never end up with a finished song.


>>>It gets quicker the more you do it. For me, using someone else's sounds is a huge no no. The sounds are what make an electronic song, so I make sure that all mine are rEalm originals :) <<<

So my question is: Why did EMu put so much effort in sound fiddling possibilities and offer such a limited effect section? An extended but easy to use efx section is what most users are after, I guess. So do I. How many of you are really (!) working with the programming features of the XX-7? Maybe this is the way to go for minimal, industrial, techno. But R & B???


>>>Because good sound design is paramount to new and exciting music, the more options the better! As for efx, yeah they're ok. I maninly use them just for live work, and stick with my nicer plug ins for the studio stuff. I know a lot of peopel just disable the effects too. <<<

rEalm





Unbalanced features?

2002-02-19 by mikexl7

Well I start by saying that I was the guy who started the 
group "IBGEEK"  It is all about using the chord section of emu 
products.  I am all about that in emu gear and it is one of the main 
reasons I am a total emu head.  I like the fact that emu makes SYNTHS 
not TOYS.  There are tons of products out there that will give you 
less for your monies so I totaly dont see what this is all about.

As for sequencer stuff and all the other complaints....I have had 
times where I thought I was going to freak out on the XL7 (in fact i 
have freaked out) but that stuff is not so much hardware dependent as 
I understand it.  So it can be added.  So as long as the cpu can run 
it it can be added, space provided.  I can see the reply now the box 
was not finished when it was put on the market, this I do agree 
with.  But honestly I would rather be using the XL missing some 
things over a 505 or a RM1x as they are.   

I highly recomend that you look into finding out how to use a synth.  
Not just to play a synth.  It takes me very little time to make 
serious edits to a synth.  ahd it alows me to concentrate on creating 
the sounds that I need to make the music i like as apposed to trying 
to cover up the sounds that arnt quite what i want with tons of FX, 
almost the best way to make a track muddy.

I don't want to slam the hobbiest here but it is great fun for me to 
understand synths.  It is kinda like building modles I guess.  It is 
a hobby for me that now many years later has become the best way to 
reach the level of expression that I have been wanting for my hole 
life.

So peace to ya all and I hope that is not to harsh.  It is just my 
prospective.

Mike G.

Re: Unbalanced features?

2002-02-20 by bassmeister3000

> So my question is: Why did EMu put so much effort in sound fiddling 
> possibilities and offer such a limited effect section? An extended 
but 
> easy to use efx section is what most users are after, I guess. So 
do I. 
> How many of you are really (!) working with the programming 
features of 
> the XX-7? 

IMHO the basis for all of this that 
A) Analog or Virtual Analog creates nearly infinate sound based on 
the equivelant of two to four samples such as a sine sample, a 
triangle sample, a square sample, etc.  Sure you can manipulate it a 
little better, like changing a pulse width, but in essence it's very 
simple.  Imagine that your new XL7/MP7 has the ablility to have not 4 
to 16 wave types but 512+.  It has all the envelopes, all the LFO's 
per layer, all the tools needed to really really make stuff no one 
has heard.  The only real difference is there aren't enough 
knobs/sliders.
B) Essentially the original soundsets are based off of rack mount 
sounds, many of which weren't made for you.  No problem, you make 
your own.  More importantly they added control to it.  You now own 
one of the most impressive sound modules out there WITH full controll 
over just about everything, AND a sequencer.

C) If you think that these effects are too few, and the programing 
too hard, get a Yamaha DX7.  FM (Frequency Modulation) programming is 
orders of magnitude harder, it's crazy.  Chances are you even own the 
equivelant in your computers sound card.  But the large number of 
analog synths, and even newer synths have very few effects in them, 
and when they are included you won't want to use them- they won't 
sound as good as outboard anyway.

D) Nine times out of ten you may want to use a preset, but you think, 
MAN! They set the preset up without making the aftertouch copy the 
mod wheel and I need all ten fingers for the solo!  I can fix it 
quickly and voila!  Or maybe I want a long slow filter sweep to 
happen automatically etc.  But maybe I want the leslie effect to 
speed up or slow down like a real leslie. Well on most synths, I'd 
have a hard time, but not the command stations!  Just a few quick 
patchcords and it sounds like an effect!  

E) I can totally fake a huge number of effects, because all they are 
are the same sounds offset in time or panned differently or 
whattever.  For instance, make a drum track.  Duplicate it and it's 
parameters.  In your external sequencer, shift the new track a little 
bit later, voila instand flanging, then phasing then delay lines 
etc.  Put an LFO on the pan position and sync to midi clock, a synced 
envelope on amp envelope, voila multi tap panning delays.  Sure it 
eats up some polyphany, but you don't use the effects and you can get 
away with a ton.

F) The basics for the sounds are the same accross the grand number of 
manufacturers.  Four samples with crossfaded velocities two to four 
envelopes, two to four syncable LFO's, Filters, etc.  The only thing 
that changes is the modulation matrix/patch cords and the number of 
stages in the envelopes.  The rest is candy for fine tuning.  
Examples: Alesis QS series, Roland MC505-XV88, All EMU gear, Access 
Virus.  Getting your head round this stuff will make everyones gear 
that much easier.  Of course I agree the manual is pretty shoddy in 
this area.

G) You paid god knows how much money for the command station, it will 
be able to grow with you, especially when you get sick of whatever 
patches are loaded in 000.


And to make this all worth while, here is an incredible resource to 
learning what synthesis is all about:

http://www.sospubs.co.uk/search/query.asp?
Synth+Secrets+Part

Andre

Re: [xl7] Re: Unbalanced features?

2002-02-20 by erik_magrini@Baxter.com

B) Essentially the original soundsets are based off of rack mount sounds, 
many of which weren't made for you.  No problem, you make your own.

>>>You should all be using your own sounds anyway, Presets in general 
suck.  Synthesis is what makes your music yours! :) <<<

E) I can totally fake a huge number of effects, because all they are are 
the same sounds offset in time or panned differently or whattever. 

>>>Excellent point!  There was an article in Remix (I think) not too long 
ago about how to create different effects via MIDI.  I'll try and find it 
and post to the list. <<<

And to make this all worth while, here is an incredible resource to 
learning what synthesis is all about: 
http://www.sospubs.co.uk/search/query.asp?Synth+Secrets+Part

>>>The Synth Secrets articles in SOS are some of my favorite out there, I 
always read those a few times to learn lots about synthesis.  True, 
sometimes the articels get a bit complicated, but you don't ahve to 
understand the math to get the basic ideas down.  Highly recommend 
reading! <<<

rEalm

Re: Unbalanced features?

2002-02-20 by heinrich22001

Stop, stop! Now thats something to learn, thanx a lot for your 
effort, andre!.
You guys are way ahead of my skills how to make the best of the synth 
department. Seems I have to go back to skool!

Heinrich


--- In xl7@y..., "bassmeister3000" <andrel@s...> wrote:
> > So my question is: Why did EMu put so much effort in sound 
fiddling 
> > possibilities and offer such a limited effect section? An 
extended 
> but 
> > easy to use efx section is what most users are after, I guess. So 
> do I. 
> > How many of you are really (!) working with the programming 
> features of 
> > the XX-7? 
> 
> IMHO the basis for all of this that 
> A) Analog or Virtual Analog creates nearly infinate sound based on 
> the equivelant of two to four samples such as a sine sample, a 
> triangle sample, a square sample, etc.  Sure you can manipulate it 
a 
> little better, like changing a pulse width, but in essence it's 
very 
> simple.  Imagine that your new XL7/MP7 has the ablility to have not 
4 
> to 16 wave types but 512+.  It has all the envelopes, all the LFO's 
> per layer, all the tools needed to really really make stuff no one 
> has heard.  The only real difference is there aren't enough 
> knobs/sliders.
> B) Essentially the original soundsets are based off of rack mount 
> sounds, many of which weren't made for you.  No problem, you make 
> your own.  More importantly they added control to it.  You now own 
> one of the most impressive sound modules out there WITH full 
controll 
> over just about everything, AND a sequencer.
> 
> C) If you think that these effects are too few, and the programing 
> too hard, get a Yamaha DX7.  FM (Frequency Modulation) programming 
is 
> orders of magnitude harder, it's crazy.  Chances are you even own 
the 
> equivelant in your computers sound card.  But the large number of 
> analog synths, and even newer synths have very few effects in them, 
> and when they are included you won't want to use them- they won't 
> sound as good as outboard anyway.
> 
> D) Nine times out of ten you may want to use a preset, but you 
think, 
> MAN! They set the preset up without making the aftertouch copy the 
> mod wheel and I need all ten fingers for the solo!  I can fix it 
> quickly and voila!  Or maybe I want a long slow filter sweep to 
> happen automatically etc.  But maybe I want the leslie effect to 
> speed up or slow down like a real leslie. Well on most synths, I'd 
> have a hard time, but not the command stations!  Just a few quick 
> patchcords and it sounds like an effect!  
> 
> E) I can totally fake a huge number of effects, because all they 
are 
> are the same sounds offset in time or panned differently or 
> whattever.  For instance, make a drum track.  Duplicate it and it's 
> parameters.  In your external sequencer, shift the new track a 
little 
> bit later, voila instand flanging, then phasing then delay lines 
> etc.  Put an LFO on the pan position and sync to midi clock, a 
synced 
> envelope on amp envelope, voila multi tap panning delays.  Sure it 
> eats up some polyphany, but you don't use the effects and you can 
get 
> away with a ton.
> 
> F) The basics for the sounds are the same accross the grand number 
of 
> manufacturers.  Four samples with crossfaded velocities two to four 
> envelopes, two to four syncable LFO's, Filters, etc.  The only 
thing 
> that changes is the modulation matrix/patch cords and the number of 
> stages in the envelopes.  The rest is candy for fine tuning.  
> Examples: Alesis QS series, Roland MC505-XV88, All EMU gear, Access 
> Virus.  Getting your head round this stuff will make everyones gear 
> that much easier.  Of course I agree the manual is pretty shoddy in 
> this area.
> 
> G) You paid god knows how much money for the command station, it 
will 
Show quoted textHide quoted text
> be able to grow with you, especially when you get sick of whatever 
> patches are loaded in 000.
> 
> 
> And to make this all worth while, here is an incredible resource to 
> learning what synthesis is all about:
> 
> http://www.sospubs.co.uk/search/query.asp?
> Synth+Secrets+Part
> 
> Andre

RE: [xl7] Re: Unbalanced features?

2002-02-20 by Andre Lewis

:)  The synth portion is really why I got the command station, that and the
expansion boards.  Everything else is just icing...
Show quoted textHide quoted text
-----Original Message-----
From: heinrich22001 [mailto:hhuent@...]
Sent: Wednesday, February 20, 2002 10:54 AM
To: xl7@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [xl7] Re: Unbalanced features?


Stop, stop! Now thats something to learn, thanx a lot for your
effort, andre!.
You guys are way ahead of my skills how to make the best of the synth
department. Seems I have to go back to skool!

Heinrich

Performing surgery?

2002-02-20 by Andre Lewis

PS. does anyone know if I can put the sound rom from my Audity2000 into the
XL7???

I haven't cracked open the Audity yet, thought I would ask first...
Andre

Re: Performing surgery?

2002-02-20 by emufreak1

No, the Audity ROM was a different format all together and is not 
compatible with any of the new units.  You can however, get the X-
Lead ROM(E-MU # 9089) since it has some of the same instruments and 
presets.(some of which have been updated)

Later,  

M2

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/orbit3



--- In xl7@y..., "Andre Lewis" <andrel@s...> wrote:
> PS. does anyone know if I can put the sound rom from my Audity2000 
into the
Show quoted textHide quoted text
> XL7???
> 
> I haven't cracked open the Audity yet, thought I would ask first...
> Andre

RE: [xl7] Re: Performing surgery?

2002-02-20 by Andre Lewis

It was worth a shot since I have a slot open in the XL7.  I probably won't
bother getting theexpansions for the Audity, since there were continual problems
with the add in chips, and because I have the XL7.  Does the add in chip contain
super beats mode?

Andre
Show quoted textHide quoted text
-----Original Message-----
From: emufreak1 [mailto:mmcquay@...]
Sent: Wednesday, February 20, 2002 2:22 PM
To: xl7@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [xl7] Re: Performing surgery?


No, the Audity ROM was a different format all together and is not
compatible with any of the new units.  You can however, get the X-
Lead ROM(E-MU # 9089) since it has some of the same instruments and
presets.(some of which have been updated)

Later,

M2

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/orbit3



--- In xl7@y..., "Andre Lewis" <andrel@s...> wrote:
> PS. does anyone know if I can put the sound rom from my Audity2000
into the
> XL7???
>
> I haven't cracked open the Audity yet, thought I would ask first...
> Andre



To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
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Re: Performing surgery?

2002-02-21 by emufreak1

There was only (1)16mb ROM available for the Audity which was called 
the Xtreme.  Don't get it confused with the newer 32mb X-Lead(Xtreme 
Lead)ROM for the recent modules and Command Stations.  And you have 3 
available slots left in the **-7.

Which add in chips(expansion ROM)are you talking about?  If you are 
talking about any of the new ones(link below), #'s 9063, 9062 and 
9087 all have the SuperBEATs mode.

http://www.emu.com/online_shop/byproduct/xl7_shop.html

Later,

M2

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/orbit3

--- In xl7@y..., "Andre Lewis" <andrel@s...> wrote:
> It was worth a shot since I have a slot open in the XL7.  I 
probably won't
> bother getting theexpansions for the Audity, since there were 
continual problems
> with the add in chips, and because I have the XL7.  Does the add in 
chip contain
> super beats mode?
> 
> Andre
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: emufreak1 [mailto:mmcquay@m...]
> Sent: Wednesday, February 20, 2002 2:22 PM
> To: xl7@y...
> Subject: [xl7] Re: Performing surgery?
> 
> 
> No, the Audity ROM was a different format all together and is not
> compatible with any of the new units.  You can however, get the X-
> Lead ROM(E-MU # 9089) since it has some of the same instruments and
> presets.(some of which have been updated)
> 
> Later,
> 
> M2
> 
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/orbit3
> 
> 
> 
> --- In xl7@y..., "Andre Lewis" <andrel@s...> wrote:
> > PS. does anyone know if I can put the sound rom from my Audity2000
> into the
> > XL7???
> >
> > I haven't cracked open the Audity yet, thought I would ask 
first...
> > Andre
> 
> 
> 
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> xl7-unsubscribe@y...
> 
> 
> 
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to 
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

RE: [xl7] Re: Performing surgery?

2002-02-21 by Andre Lewis

Oh sorry let me clarify:
I have an XL7 with the Mophat, and Techno Synth cards added (Leaves me one slot,
I was thinking of getting one of the orchestral cards).  I also have the Audity
2000 w/OS ver 2.01, and just traded out an Orbit 9090.

Orbit/Planet Phat: Beats mode, like an appregiator sort of, but set up
specifically for the drum mappings.  You could only have one play at a time but
there was a rudimentary sequencer.

XL-1/MP-1:  Super beats mode, where not only could each channel appregiate
specific beat patterns, but you could assign a different "beat" to every key?,
thereby playing a drum set live.  Also mapped specifically for the drum sounds.
I think, but am not sure it has the beat patterns from before.  I was also told
that if I had the Orbit and the Audity together it was the equivelant of an
XL-1.  I really don't know how much of the original sample set for the XL-1 came
off the Orbit, but I suspect it was a lot?  Isn't this the same sampleset used
in the XL-7?

Audity 2000:  Has drum mappings and appregiators, but the appregiators don't do
beat mode justice.  Doesn't apear that the mappings match the drumsets at all,
they seem just like general purpose appregiator patterns.

XL-7/MP-7:  Built in sequencers, appregiators.  Also no beat mode though you can
simulate it using the triggers in latch mode.  As far as I can tell they aren't
mapped out to match the kits and are all general purpose synth oriented.  The
Yahoo FAQ says:

 "Is the Superbeats mode from previous Emu sound modules incorporated into the
Command Stations?
At this time Superbeats is not incorporated into the Command Stations. Because
they have their own internal sequencers, it is not necessary to implement a
Superbeats mode. Similar results may be obtained by using the arpeggiators if
needed though."

So now my main questions are:
Does the addin chip for the audity 2000 duplicate the Orbit/planet phat?
Will I get beats mode by adding it or only the soundset?
Does the XL1/XL7 duplicate the soundset of the Orbit 9090 at all?

Re: Performing surgery?

2002-02-21 by emufreak1

--- In xl7@y..., "Andre Lewis" <andrel@s...> wrote:
> Oh sorry let me clarify:
> I have an XL7 with the Mophat, and Techno Synth cards added (Leaves 
me one slot,
> I was thinking of getting one of the orchestral cards).  I also 
have the Audity
> 2000 w/OS ver 2.01, and just traded out an Orbit 9090.
> 
> Orbit/Planet Phat: Beats mode, like an appregiator sort of, but set 
up
> specifically for the drum mappings.  You could only have one play 
at a time but
> there was a rudimentary sequencer.
> 
> XL-1/MP-1:  Super beats mode, where not only could each channel 
appregiate
> specific beat patterns, but you could assign a different "beat" to 
every key?,
> thereby playing a drum set live.  Also mapped specifically for the 
drum sounds.
> I think, but am not sure it has the beat patterns from before.  I 
was also told
> that if I had the Orbit and the Audity together it was the 
equivelant of an
> XL-1.  I really don't know how much of the original sample set for 
the XL-1 came
> off the Orbit, but I suspect it was a lot?  Isn't this the same 
sampleset used
> in the XL-7?



Yes.  The X-Lead ROM in my XL-1 is the same as in your XL-7 but with 
different presets.  The instruments are the same though.  I have a 
Pure Phatt ROM in that just like you have in your XL-7.

For you last ROM you really should look at the Beat Garden ROM.  I 
have a P2K as well with the Techno ROM and just added the Beat Garden 
before Christmas.  Both ROM's were developed by Rob Papen and 
compliment each other very well.  He(Rob)has also created 256 free 
extension presets for user banks 2 and 3 along with 100 arp patterns 
to load into the user pattern location.  Since you have the Techno 
ROM, you can download these since your present user arp patterns are 
duplicated in on your ROM arp bank 2.  Demos of the Beat Garden ROM 
can be found at the link below and the free presets and arp patterns 
can be downloaded there as well since you own the Techno ROM.  Just 
read the information under each file to ensure that the correct file 
is downloaded depending on which ver. ROM you have installed.

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/orbit3



> 
> Audity 2000:  Has drum mappings and appregiators, but the 
appregiators don't do
> beat mode justice.  Doesn't apear that the mappings match the 
drumsets at all,
> they seem just like general purpose appregiator patterns.
> 
> XL-7/MP-7:  Built in sequencers, appregiators.  Also no beat mode 
though you can
> simulate it using the triggers in latch mode.  As far as I can tell 
they aren't
> mapped out to match the kits and are all general purpose synth 
oriented.  The
> Yahoo FAQ says:
> 
>  "Is the Superbeats mode from previous Emu sound modules 
incorporated into the
> Command Stations?
> At this time Superbeats is not incorporated into the Command 
Stations. Because
> they have their own internal sequencers, it is not necessary to 
implement a
> Superbeats mode. Similar results may be obtained by using the 
arpeggiators if
> needed though."
> 
> So now my main questions are:
> Does the addin chip for the audity 2000 duplicate the Orbit/planet 
phat?
> Will I get beats mode by adding it or only the soundset?
> Does the XL1/XL7 duplicate the soundset of the Orbit 9090 at all?

Re: [xl7] Re: Unbalanced features?

2002-03-14 by Jonathan El-Bizri

> So my question is: Why did EMu put so much effort in sound fiddling
> possibilities and offer such a limited effect section? An extended
but
> easy to use efx section is what most users are after, I guess. So
do I.
> How many of you are really (!) working with the programming
features of
> the XX-7?

Because the box (and most of emu's gear) is aimed at people who have other
toys too - the dedicated hobbyists, semi-pros and professionals. Considering
the price and quality of older used outboard gear, it's a problem you can
fix at H-C or ebay for a couple of hundred bucks.

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