Emu XL-7 & MP-7 User's Group

Hi.

I've been using drum machines for years, and for the last 12 or so I've synced audio 
loopers (Lexicon JamMan and Electrix Repeater) to them. It's always worked great (and still 
does) but I think I use my drum machines in a somewhat non traditional way.  I use either 
a Korg Electribe ESX-1 or E-MU XL-7 to put together dense loops and then kind of 
randomly mute/unmute tracks while in song mode.  The lack of traditional song structure 
is great for the way I like to improvise.

Well, this weekend I decided to put together something with a more "pop" structure and I 
found the song modes on both the above drum machines to be SO awkward compared to 
a DAW like Digital Performer or Logic, I ended up with nothing.

So, am I just spoiled by modern computer sequencing... or am I approaching the drum 
machine song construction in the wrong way?  My idea is to avoid having to bring a laptop 
to gigs, but if it's going to be so much easier I'll do it.  I can get around pretty quickly in 
Digital Performer 4... then I started to think "well if I'm bringing a laptop for sequencing, 
why not use it as a sound source as well?"  The ESX-1 is a sampler and the XL-7 is a 
ROMpler so it's not like I'd have issues with a laptop not being able to have fast enough 
processors.

So, if there's a song construction tip that you can think of, I'd love to hear it.  If you've 
found a better tool that lets one work more intuitively, (the Electribe has a way better 
interface than the E-MU IMO) I'd like to hear that as well.  If song construction in modern 
drum-machines is just a big pain compared to software, than I guess I'll abandon my little 
yellow boy for my current project, or use it purely as a sound generator.

Thanks,

Mark

Mark
The way i do song structure, is to learn the structure of a particular 
musical style i want to work with.
For example i am studying classical indian music.  ive had my xx7 for about 
a month now and have begun to set up patterns that conform to the musical 
style.  I dont look for the patterns to be already in the machine,  but 
rather, first know the music well enough; then know the xl7 well enough to 
emulate that style.  my 2 cents
Dan

--- In xl7@yahoogroups.com, "zerocrossing2001" <zerocrossing2001@y...> wrote:
> So, am I just spoiled by modern computer sequencing... or am I approaching the drum 
> machine song construction in the wrong way?  

Hi Mark,

I responded to your private email, but here are some more specific tips for working with 
pattern-based sequencing (as opposed to linear sequencers like a DAW):

Think in sections. In a typical pop song the sections might be Intro, Verse, Chorus, Break, 
Bridge, Outro (not exactly in that order); some sections will repeat and some will change 
the second or third time around (Chorus2, Chorus3, for instance).

Make a separate pattern for each section. Often you can just duplicate a section and add 
or modify tracks to get the next section. For instance, the Chorus may have a different 
bassline than the verse and the hihat pattern may change, but the kicks might be the 
same.

You can make each pattern the full length of the section, or loop a shorter pattern the 
necessary number of times.

Use the trigger buttons and the pattern select mode to switch patterns/change sections as 
the song progresses; for transitions, you can unmute a snare fill, build the transition into 
the last measure of the pattern (if the pattern and the section are the same length), or 
insert a short transition pattern in between sections.

You can do this manually and try different arrangements - a longer last chorus, a break 
between the first chorus and the second verse, whatever - or build it as a song (basically 
just a chain of patterns). Songs can include mute events to automate things like bringing 
in a snare fill at the end of the verse. I generally leave stuff in pattern mode, and use song 
mode only when I'm getting ready to record.

You can also use XMIX to experiment with different transitions or try using the chorus 
bassline with the verse, etc.

Hope that helps.


Charles.

I think it's a good way to create song to use an software sequenceur but to slave your xl7 but you will still have to create your presets. So my way is to sequence in the xl7 and after to compile these sequences in a software.

That my point of view.

Bye


		
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

I don't know how much this will help you. but I had a friend record guitar on my digital 
recorder a while back.  Then I sync'd my px-7 to it.  I attacked the guitar track one pattern 
at a time.  I can't remember exactly, but it was something like 7 or 8 patterns when I 
finished.  I chained them in song mode and it worked perfectly.  Not knowing much about 
drums, let alone music, it sounded ok.  It didn't take much time at all, which surprised me.  

If you want to hear it go to:

http://f1.pg.briefcase.yahoo.com/mikedancy

Look in the "Old Stuff" folder for a track called "Original Song Draft"  I definitely could have 
been more creative with the drums, but you'll get the idea.

Regards,
Mike


--- In xl7@yahoogroups.com, "zerocrossing2001" <zerocrossing2001@y...> wrote:
> Hi.
> 
> I've been using drum machines for years, and for the last 12 or so I've synced audio 
> loopers (Lexicon JamMan and Electrix Repeater) to them. It's always worked great (and 
still 
> does) but I think I use my drum machines in a somewhat non traditional way.  I use 
either 
> a Korg Electribe ESX-1 or E-MU XL-7 to put together dense loops and then kind of 
> randomly mute/unmute tracks while in song mode.  The lack of traditional song 
structure 
> is great for the way I like to improvise.
> 
> Well, this weekend I decided to put together something with a more "pop" structure and 
I 
> found the song modes on both the above drum machines to be SO awkward compared 
to 
> a DAW like Digital Performer or Logic, I ended up with nothing.
> 
> So, am I just spoiled by modern computer sequencing... or am I approaching the drum 
> machine song construction in the wrong way?  My idea is to avoid having to bring a 
laptop 
> to gigs, but if it's going to be so much easier I'll do it.  I can get around pretty quickly in 
> Digital Performer 4... then I started to think "well if I'm bringing a laptop for sequencing, 
> why not use it as a sound source as well?"  The ESX-1 is a sampler and the XL-7 is a 
> ROMpler so it's not like I'd have issues with a laptop not being able to have fast enough 
> processors.
> 
> So, if there's a song construction tip that you can think of, I'd love to hear it.  If you've 
> found a better tool that lets one work more intuitively, (the Electribe has a way better 
> interface than the E-MU IMO) I'd like to hear that as well.  If song construction in 
modern 
> drum-machines is just a big pain compared to software, than I guess I'll abandon my 
little 

> yellow boy for my current project, or use it purely as a sound generator.
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> Mark

That's not quite the answer I was looking for (perhaps I should have better worded the 
question), but good sound advice.

--- In xl7@yahoogroups.com, "Daniel Jarvis" <danieljtb@h...> wrote:

> 
> Mark
> The way i do song structure, is to learn the structure of a particular 
> musical style i want to work with.
> For example i am studying classical indian music.  ive had my xx7 for about 
> a month now and have begun to set up patterns that conform to the musical 
> style.  I dont look for the patterns to be already in the machine,  but 
> rather, first know the music well enough; then know the xl7 well enough to 
> emulate that style.  my 2 cents
> Dan

That is actually exactly what I was looking for.  I think my problem is I've gotten used to 
linear sequencers and it's a bit of a mind flip to think in a pattern based mode.  I'm going 
to hunker down and work on this more tonight.  Thanks so much!

Mark

--- In xl7@yahoogroups.com, "robotchas" <robotchas@y...> wrote:
> --- In xl7@yahoogroups.com, "zerocrossing2001" <zerocrossing2001@y...> wrote:
> > So, am I just spoiled by modern computer sequencing... or am I approaching the drum 
> > machine song construction in the wrong way?  
> 
> Hi Mark,
> 
> I responded to your private email, but here are some more specific tips for working with 
> pattern-based sequencing (as opposed to linear sequencers like a DAW):
> 
> Think in sections. In a typical pop song the sections might be Intro, Verse, Chorus, 
Break, 
> Bridge, Outro (not exactly in that order); some sections will repeat and some will change 
> the second or third time around (Chorus2, Chorus3, for instance).
> 
> Make a separate pattern for each section. Often you can just duplicate a section and add 
> or modify tracks to get the next section. For instance, the Chorus may have a different 
> bassline than the verse and the hihat pattern may change, but the kicks might be the 
> same.
> 
> You can make each pattern the full length of the section, or loop a shorter pattern the 
> necessary number of times.
> 
> Use the trigger buttons and the pattern select mode to switch patterns/change sections 
as 
> the song progresses; for transitions, you can unmute a snare fill, build the transition 
into 
> the last measure of the pattern (if the pattern and the section are the same length), or 
> insert a short transition pattern in between sections.
> 
> You can do this manually and try different arrangements - a longer last chorus, a break 
> between the first chorus and the second verse, whatever - or build it as a song (basically 
> just a chain of patterns). Songs can include mute events to automate things like 
bringing 
> in a snare fill at the end of the verse. I generally leave stuff in pattern mode, and use 
song 

> mode only when I'm getting ready to record.
> 
> You can also use XMIX to experiment with different transitions or try using the chorus 
> bassline with the verse, etc.
> 
> Hope that helps.
> 
> 
> Charles.

Yeah, I may end up using a hybred style of programming patterns on the xl-7 and then 
bringing them into the computer for song construction.  I worked on this last night and it 
seemed to be a great workflow.

Mark

--- In xl7@yahoogroups.com, BEAUFILS Adrien <fatalojyxvsfacial@y...> wrote:
> 
> I think it's a good way to create song to use an software sequenceur but to slave your 
xl7 but you will still have to create your presets. So my way is to sequence in the xl7 and 
after to compile these sequences in a software.

> 
> That my point of view.
> 
> Bye
> 
> 
> 		
> ---------------------------------
>  Appel audio GRATUIT partout dans le monde avec le nouveau Yahoo! Messenger
>  Téléchargez le ici !  
> 
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

That does sound like a great tip.  I couldn't get to your link for some reason though.  I got 
an error message when I tried to enter the folder.

Mark

--- In xl7@yahoogroups.com, "mike" <mikedancy@e...> wrote:
> I don't know how much this will help you. but I had a friend record guitar on my digital 
> recorder a while back.  Then I sync'd my px-7 to it.  I attacked the guitar track one 
pattern 
> at a time.  I can't remember exactly, but it was something like 7 or 8 patterns when I 
> finished.  I chained them in song mode and it worked perfectly.  Not knowing much 
about 
> drums, let alone music, it sounded ok.  It didn't take much time at all, which surprised 
me.  
> 
> If you want to hear it go to:
> 
> http://f1.pg.briefcase.yahoo.com/mikedancy
> 
> Look in the "Old Stuff" folder for a track called "Original Song Draft"  I definitely could 
have 
> been more creative with the drums, but you'll get the idea.
> 
> Regards,
> Mike
> 
> 
> --- In xl7@yahoogroups.com, "zerocrossing2001" <zerocrossing2001@y...> wrote:
> > Hi.
> > 
> > I've been using drum machines for years, and for the last 12 or so I've synced audio 
> > loopers (Lexicon JamMan and Electrix Repeater) to them. It's always worked great (and 
> still 
> > does) but I think I use my drum machines in a somewhat non traditional way.  I use 
> either 
> > a Korg Electribe ESX-1 or E-MU XL-7 to put together dense loops and then kind of 
> > randomly mute/unmute tracks while in song mode.  The lack of traditional song 
> structure 
> > is great for the way I like to improvise.
> > 
> > Well, this weekend I decided to put together something with a more "pop" structure 
and 
> I 
> > found the song modes on both the above drum machines to be SO awkward 
compared 
> to 
> > a DAW like Digital Performer or Logic, I ended up with nothing.
> > 
> > So, am I just spoiled by modern computer sequencing... or am I approaching the drum 
> > machine song construction in the wrong way?  My idea is to avoid having to bring a 
> laptop 
> > to gigs, but if it's going to be so much easier I'll do it.  I can get around pretty quickly 
in 
> > Digital Performer 4... then I started to think "well if I'm bringing a laptop for 
sequencing, 
> > why not use it as a sound source as well?"  The ESX-1 is a sampler and the XL-7 is a 
> > ROMpler so it's not like I'd have issues with a laptop not being able to have fast 
enough 

> > processors.
> > 
> > So, if there's a song construction tip that you can think of, I'd love to hear it.  If you've 
> > found a better tool that lets one work more intuitively, (the Electribe has a way better 
> > interface than the E-MU IMO) I'd like to hear that as well.  If song construction in 
> modern 
> > drum-machines is just a big pain compared to software, than I guess I'll abandon my 
> little 
> > yellow boy for my current project, or use it purely as a sound generator.
> > 
> > Thanks,
> > 
> > Mark

That's how I'd work.  The XL-7 is a great way to capture ideas.  It's
fast, non-stop, and unencumbered.  It's not, however, a great way to
finish a song.  I think of mine as a 16 track tape deck that I can go
back and change the sounds on later.  Using eloader, you can get the
patterns to a computer to do arrangement and finishing.  Then, using
eloader again, dump the finished song back down to the box for use
live...

-Aaron

--- zerocrossing2001 <zerocrossing2001@...> wrote:

> Yeah, I may end up using a hybred style of programming patterns on
> the xl-7 and then bringing them into the computer for song construction.

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Ah, I hadn't thought of using e-loader... is that an easy process?  I seem to remember 
abandoning it save for an OS update because it was Mac OS9 only.

Mark

--- In xl7@yahoogroups.com, Aaron Eppolito <synthesis77@y...> wrote:

> That's how I'd work.  The XL-7 is a great way to capture ideas.  It's
> fast, non-stop, and unencumbered.  It's not, however, a great way to
> finish a song.  I think of mine as a 16 track tape deck that I can go
> back and change the sounds on later.  Using eloader, you can get the
> patterns to a computer to do arrangement and finishing.  Then, using
> eloader again, dump the finished song back down to the box for use
> live...
> 
> -Aaron
> 
> --- zerocrossing2001 <zerocrossing2001@y...> wrote:
> 
> > Yeah, I may end up using a hybred style of programming patterns on
> > the xl-7 and then bringing them into the computer for song construction.
> 
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