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louder drums

louder drums

2004-10-31 by universumsmedelpunkt

Hello.
What do you all do to get those drumkits louder?
If one compares the xl7 chip with the "phatt" chip the drums are way 
louder on the latter. As they should be.
I have 4 chips in my unit,the xl7,"phatt"whatever,composer,and world.
There is a big difference in volume between them.
My main annoyance is that its hard to get the xl7 drums to cut 
through.This is supposed to be a dance chip and the drums got to be 
at max.Right now Im trying to work with the alternative outputs and a 
insert compressor and a gain stage.This works but it would be better 
if I did not need the extra hardware.Any Ideas?

Re: [xl7] louder drums

2004-11-01 by Wesley D

you could double them up on separate layers.  some
filters make things a lot louder, like megasweepz.

personally though, I'd record each hit into a DAW at
the highest possible level withoug clipping and then
compress, EQ, etc.  that means you have to rely on a
sampler or a computer to trigger it back live.

but honestly, not even just the loudness, to me the
drums don't pack the same punch that a professional
recording does.  if you're at a gig and a DJ either
plays before or after you, my experience has been with
the XL rom that my beats didn't hit the same.  the
kick especially.  hip hop and techno get this kick
that sounds really deep and powerful.  

if anybody has a secret to making super fat kicks
please share. (on or off the actual XX-7) I have two
tips. 
first, gate a tone across it, route a send from the
kick to a low sine tone ( like 40 hz. or thereabouts)
then when the kick hits it opens up the tone.  40 is
the hip hop standard.  
another sweet trick is to take an eq, and turn the
Q/bandwith as narrow as it will go, jack the gain all
the way up, then sweep the low freq. until you find
the sweet spot.  add as much as 10 dB to that freq.,
and they say 51hz. is a magig freq. for techno.

peace,

wesley


		
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Re: louder drums

2004-11-02 by universumsmedelpunkt

Thanx for your response.
Sampling hits is what I have been doing myself.Or better yet make 
rythms,compress and maximize on the computer and then re sample the 
loop...
However I must say that a compressor/limiter with a gainstage inserted
is working greater than expected.Im using a cheap Bheringer 
composer.Then I can also play around with sending basslines and 
percussion into the thing for extra fun.
If you then send the stereo input into a dynamic expander the output 
will sound almoust like.....the way I like it.
keep it banging.

Re: louder drums

2004-11-02 by gutman75

--- In xl7@yahoogroups.com, Wesley D <Serfiss@y...> wrote:
> if anybody has a secret to making super fat kicks
> please share. (on or off the actual XX-7)

The trance gurus from Israel, Infected Mushroom, have a "kick drum 
tutorial" on their site:

http://www.infected-mushroom.net/Studio/Html/_Kickdrum_Tutorial.htm

Trance is not everybody's cup of tea, but their kicks have tons of 
punch.
Apparently, they take a sine wave and then repeatedly apply a sharply 
descending pitch envelope. I tried to do something similar on MP-7, 
without much success. Maybe the envelopes are not fast enough?

Re: [xl7] louder drums

2004-11-02 by erik_magrini@Baxter.com

I typically layer the drum sounds, and set AmpVol to +10 if I need it that 
loud.  If you want a really beefy kick, layer the BD's, and use the 
Megasweepz filter one of the layers.

rEalm




Hello.
What do you all do to get those drumkits louder?
If one compares the xl7 chip with the "phatt" chip the drums are way 
louder on the latter. As they should be.
I have 4 chips in my unit,the xl7,"phatt"whatever,composer,and world.
There is a big difference in volume between them.
My main annoyance is that its hard to get the xl7 drums to cut 
through.This is supposed to be a dance chip and the drums got to be 
at max.Right now Im trying to work with the alternative outputs and a 
insert compressor and a gain stage.This works but it would be better 
if I did not need the extra hardware.Any Ideas?






 
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Re: [xl7] louder drums

2004-11-02 by erik_magrini@Baxter.com

but honestly, not even just the loudness, to me the drums don't pack the 
same punch that a professional recording does. 

>>>Well, to be fair, the XX-7's drums aren't compressed and EQ'd either. 
So out of the box they are very natural sounding, which does lead to an 
issue depending on if you use the box for studio or stage work.  In the 
studio, I much more prefer it the way it is, that way I can use much 
better compressors than would have ever been included on the XX-7 to punch 
up the drums.  Live however, this is more a problem and you generally have 
to resort to subbing the drums out to a seperate out or applying global 
compression. <<<

if anybody has a secret to making super fat kicks please share. (on or off 
the actual XX-7) I have two tips. 

>>>Layer, Layer, Layer! <<<

add as much as 10 dB to that freq.,and they say 51hz. is a magig freq. for 
techno.

>>>Way too low IMO, try a shelving EQ set at abvout 80-90Hz. <<<

rEalm


 
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Re: [xl7] louder drums

2004-11-03 by Wesley D

shelving is fine, but having a spike somewhere in the
subsonic range can really give a kick the low end
thump that many hip hop and techno producers are
looking for.

I too would suggest some type of shelf, or rolling off
of   the subsonic frequencies.  especially depening on
the track, if you have a really deep bass, you would
certainly want to open up some space down there.  
in particular I'm speaking to progressive house/breaks
on that 51hz. tip.  more or less the advice that was
given to me by more than one very successful producer
was to take a narrow spiked eq and search for a freq.
that resonates well, or baically sounds fat.  it
doesn't always sound good.  I recently used waves
maxxbass on a kick to get some low end that just
wasn't in the kick to begin with.

I'm about to read the infected mushroom article.  I
must say though, I've never thought of them as having
really thick kicks.  I want kicks like Luke Chable's,
Infusion, PVD even (not so much recently).  those club
kicks that absolutely shake the building and you can
hear them from a block away.  it's hard to not have a
kick sound overdriven, blocky, or too high pitched, or
muffled and muddy when going for this type of thump. 
it's a delicate blend of elements, and I personally
consider it the holy grail, being able to make a
plethura of different kicks that all kick ass.

wait, one tip I forgot to mention.  I sampled a kick
off of a record I have, a really really big one.  and
I noticed, after spectral analysis, that it appears to
go from high to low really fast.  like a wave.  so I'm
thinking it's a really subtle pitch bend really quick
over the sample.  sounded like infected mushroom was
talking about doing the opposite?  let me go read
that.  I've typed to much anyway.  sorry bout' that. 
watching this election nonsense and the sopranos and
babbling.

peace,

wesley



		
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Re: [xl7] louder drums

2004-11-03 by erik_magrini@Baxter.com

That's pretty much the standard way to synthesize a kick drum, very fast 
downward pitch modulation.  Read the Synth Secrets article in Sound On 
Sounds' online section for more info:

http://tinyurl.com/5hqqx
http://tinyurl.com/537bg

rEalm



wait, one tip I forgot to mention.  I sampled a kick
off of a record I have, a really really big one.  and
I noticed, after spectral analysis, that it appears to
go from high to low really fast.  like a wave.  so I'm
thinking it's a really subtle pitch bend really quick
over the sample. 








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use of , or taking of any action in reliance upon, this information by 
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PX7 I have User, and Drum, and not very many sounds

2004-11-05 by Wesley D

Ok,

It appears as if I'm missing the factory sounds, which
I thought were imbedded.  in a quick search I found
two suggestions, one:  copy the factory sounds bank by
bank into the user slots.  two:  factory reset and
then use e-loader.  
thing is, I'm not seeing any factory presets, so is
there a possiblilty that I'm missing the actual ROM or
something?  
btw, how do you do a factory reset?  it wasn't under
facory reset or initialize in the manual.

thanks,

Wesley


		
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Re: [xl7] PX7 I have User, and Drum, and not very many sounds

2004-11-05 by Wesley D

on closer inspection.... It seems either I'm crazy, or
the synth was acting weird, or I was in the wrong
menu....

it does seem weird that it says DRUM & User though... 


-wesley



		
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Re: [xl7] PX7 I have User, and Drum, and not very many sounds

2004-11-05 by Bruddah Max

On Nov 4, 2004, at 5:00 PM, Wesley D wrote:

> thing is, I'm not seeing any factory presets, so is
> there a possiblilty that I'm missing the actual ROM or
> something?

the presets are built into the ROMs - check if the ROM has worked 
itself loose.

> btw, how do you do a factory reset?  it wasn't under
> facory reset or initialize in the manual.

hold down both cursor keys at startup - scroll through the diagnostics 
menu that comes up - reset is an option.

--
Bruddah Max
Lord of the Dance

Re: [xl7] PX7 I have User, and Drum, and not very many sounds

2004-11-05 by BEAUFILS Adrien

Wesley D <Serfiss@...> wrote:
Ok,

It appears as if I'm missing the factory sounds, which
I thought were imbedded.  in a quick search I found
two suggestions, one:  copy the factory sounds bank by
bank into the user slots.  two:  factory reset and
then use e-loader.  
thing is, I'm not seeing any factory presets, so is
there a possiblilty that I'm missing the actual ROM or
something?  
btw, how do you do a factory reset?  it wasn't under
facory reset or initialize in the manual.

thanks,

Wesley

When you switch on your xl7 stay your legs lean against the 2 buttons cursors. After if you choose number 16 it will initialize all users data. If you choose number 17: idem except sequence data. 

Tchao.

            
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Re: louder drums

2004-11-07 by robotchas

--- In xl7@yahoogroups.com, erik_magrini@B... wrote:
> I typically layer the drum sounds, and set AmpVol to +10 if I need it that 
> loud.  If you want a really beefy kick, layer the BD's, and use the 
> Megasweepz filter one of the layers.
> 
> rEalm

Another trick is to use one of the highpass filters, boost the resonance, and dial the 
frequency until you find the fundamental of the bass drum. This can easily get really 
loud...

I usually use two layers, one for the "attack" or "crack" to give the drum some character 
(generally one of the more realistic sounds, lowpass filtered) and a second smoother 
sound (sometimes even just a sine wave) for the body. The second layer gets the HPF 
resonance bump and/or a rapid pitch ramp (high to low).