Emu XL-7 & MP-7 User's Group

Hi, I don't have an XL-7. I would like to know is this possible:

Create a song with many different sections (A B C etc), and have the 
ability to change to any A B C etc. section. I would like to be able 
to change sections by a midi command, such as from my foot 
controller, typically a patch change or CC# message, or even note-on.

If so, how many sections can be created? 16? Or would one create 
each section as a seperate pattern (one of the 512 memories?)

Thanks very much,
Eric

You can switch patterns/sections as much as you want and there is about 500 of them.You can switch it rimotely via foot switch or program change messages via external sequencer and of course, on board with track buttons or data wheel.The best thing about switching with data wheel is that you can specify which pattern is coming next and its not gonna switch 'till you push enter, very usefull.
 
I see you are mentioning sections a lot, do you use rm1x or rs7k?

Eric <ericzang@...> wrote:
Hi, I don't have an XL-7. I would like to know is this possible:

Create a song with many different sections (A B C etc), and have the 
ability to change to any A B C etc. section. I would like to be able 
to change sections by a midi command, such as from my foot 
controller, typically a patch change or CC# message, or even note-on.

If so, how many sections can be created? 16? Or would one create 
each section as a seperate pattern (one of the 512 memories?)

Thanks very much,
Eric



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> Create a song with many different sections (A B C etc), and have the 
> ability to change to any A B C etc. section. I would like to be able 
> to change sections by a midi command, such as from my foot 
> controller, typically a patch change or CC# message, or even note-on.

Now who on earth would want to do THAT?

 8Þ  Just Kidding!! I ask that question everywhere I go. Look at my
early posts in this group... You may as well have copy+pasted. Are you a
guitar player too?

The first part is possible, as long as the sections are 32 measures or
shorter. The second part- remote selection, is alas, NOT possible, on
this sequencer, or any recent one I've found.

-m@

I am very interested in the ability to switch patterns remotely.  
Could you give a list of steps to show how can this be done with 
program change messages. Thanks.

--- In xl7@yahoogroups.com, khjkkkkk khjkhjk <extra_mayo79@y...> 
wrote:
> You can switch patterns/sections as much as you want and there is 
about 500 of them.You can switch it rimotely via foot switch or 
program change messages via external sequencer and of course, on 
board with track buttons or data wheel.The best thing about switching 
with data wheel is that you can specify which pattern is coming next 
and its not gonna switch 'till you push enter, very usefull.

> you can switch patterns remotely via foot switch

::ears perk up::

> You can switch [patterns] ... via program change messages / external
sequencer 

When I send program change messages, the PRESET is changing, but not the
pattern. What's the method for this? I didn't see it in the manual.

-m@

--- In xl7@yahoogroups.com, "Matt Picone" <matman@m...> wrote:
> > You can switch [patterns] ... via program change messages / external
> sequencer
>
> When I send program change messages, the PRESET is changing, but not the
> pattern. What's the method for this? I didn't see it in the manual.
>
> -m@

Unfortunately, as far as I know you cannot change patterns via MIDI. Other than the front panel, the only way to change patterns is via footswitches; you can assign one to increment the pattern number and another to decrement (this is better than the MC-505, which only allowed the former). I'd love to have MIDI pattern switching, but this will at least allow you to change patterns while playing guitar, etc.

Steve seems to have dug deeper into the sysex implementation, so if he's worked out another method I'd be happy to be proven wrong.

--- In xl7@yahoogroups.com, "robotchas" <robotchas@y...> wrote:

> Unfortunately, as far as I know you cannot change patterns via
> MIDI. Other than the front panel, the only way to change patterns
> is via footswitches . . . .

Addendum: Matt is right about using the triggers though.  Through the 
controller menu, you can set trigger buttons to do ONE of the 
following: (1) Play Note Events, (2) Play Beats Parts, (3) Select 
Patterns.

With option (3) you can assign each of 16 triggers to any of 1024 
patterns you have created (0 -> 127 patterns X 0 -> 7 banks).

Keep in mind each of the 16 tracks can hold midi note and related 
data on 16 midi channels.  So you can place 16 channel subpatterns on 
different tracks and turn them on and off via the 16 buttons in track 
enable/mute mode.

Also, trigger button settings (mode and assignments) are stored in 
multisetups.  Multisetups are callable via patch change midi commands 
(Bank MSB: 80 decimal). So, you can (for example) set up one section 
of a performance with 16 patterns assigned to the 16 trigger buttons 
and another section with 16 different patterns.  You can also have 
another multisetup that uses the trigger buttons for beats 
performance.  NOTE:  I have not done this in a live performance, so I 
cannot tell you about the logistics of switching multisetups live. 

> Steve seems to have dug deeper into the sysex implementation, so if 
he's worked out another method I'd be happy to be proven wrong.

Either on this board or another E-Mu board, I outlined how it might 
be possible to use remote control sysex commands to manuever around 
the menus (virtul button pushing and knob turning) to switch patterns.

As for changing trigger pattern assignments directly by sysex 
parameter editing, I don't see anything in Sysex Manual 2.2.  There 
are locations for note trigger parameters and programable knob 
parameters, though.

BTW: Evidently you can send sysex commands to change the following 
programable knob parameters: CC# (1-119), midi channel (0-31, -1 for 
basic channel), and destination (internal, external, both, sequencer).

It would seem then you could have sysex commands change the 
functionality of EACH/ANY of the 16 programable knobs on the fly.

I have done practically no E-Mu programming in months, but I hopoe 
this is helpful.

--- In xl7@yahoogroups.com, "steve_the_composer" <smw-mail@p...> wrote:
> So, you can (for example) set up one section
> of a performance with 16 patterns assigned to the 16 trigger buttons
> and another section with 16 different patterns.  You can also have
> another multisetup that uses the trigger buttons for beats
> performance.  NOTE:  I have not done this in a live performance, so I
> cannot tell you about the logistics of switching multisetups live.

The thing you have to watch out for is that changing multisetups to switch to a new set of pattern trigger assignments (Direct Pattern Access) will also change patches and effects. If you're playing one song at a time this is no big deal (use a different multisetup for each song), but if you're playing a continuous set, DJ-style, this can cause glitches in your sound. To avoid this you can plan ahead and switch to a pattern with the same patches before switching multisetups (so the patches don't change); if the effects configuration changes too this should probably done at a point where the mix is thinned enough that the change is not noticeable, or at a point where the change is covered by other instruments.

I'm still working up material to do an eventual live set, so I haven't put this to the test yet.


> Either on this board or another E-Mu board, I outlined how it might
> be possible to use remote control sysex commands to manuever around
> the menus (virtul button pushing and knob turning) to switch patterns.

Thanks Steve, that's what I was thinking of. I don't know how useful turning the data entry knob remotely would be since you can get the same result more easily by using footswitches to change patterns. A short sysex string that "pressed" a trigger button might be useful though, for those whose hands were busy elsewhere.


> As for changing trigger pattern assignments directly by sysex
> parameter editing, I don't see anything in Sysex Manual 2.2.  There
> are locations for note trigger parameters and programable knob
> parameters, though.

I'd be surprised if the functionality weren't in there somewhere but was left out of the documentation because DPA wasn't added until OS 2.0.

Being able to change trigger pattern assignments via sysex might avoid the problems with switching multisetups I describe above, or it might not, depending on how well the Command Station handles getting hit with that much sysex and how dense the mix is at that point.

It's a shame you can't just send a program change (and bank select) message to queue up the next pattern, but the XL7 gets enough other, more important things right that I'm willing to live with the footswitch method.

You're right, by the way, to emphasize that changing patterns live is indeed possible from the trigger buttons - this was precisely the feature that convinced me to finally buy my XL7.

Thanks for the replies everyone! I'm not exactly sure what the 
answer is though. Triggers can change patterns, you can have 16 
triggers. What are triggers though? Can they be patch change or CC#?

To kkhj... yes I do use the rm1x. I am able to change arbitrarily 
(not limited to sequential) between the 16 different "sections" of 
a "song" using the Yamaha MFC10 midi footcontroller. It sends 
something it calls "section change" messages. I think this is sysex 
for yamaha sequencers.

Thanks again!

> Thanks for the replies everyone! I'm not exactly sure what the 
> answer is though. Triggers can change patterns, you can have 16 
> triggers. What are triggers though? Can they be patch change or CC#?

NO. Triggers are the unit's onboard playing pads.

> To kkhj... yes I do use the rm1x. I am able to change arbitrarily 
> (not limited to sequential) between the 16 different "sections" of 
> a "song" using the Yamaha MFC10 midi footcontroller. 

> It sends 
> something it calls "section change" messages. I think this is sysex 
> for yamaha sequencers.

Exactly. Not possible on the command station. 

Has emu ever participated in this list? Is there some way we can let
them know of a community request like this? Or am I just spoiled by
Access and Native Instruments...

-m@

Triggers are buttons on the front panel. They can be used to mute 
tracks, select patterns, or play notes.

What we've been saying is that the XL7 has no equivalent to "section 
change messages", so you can't use the MFC10 in the same way as you 
do with the RM1x.

--- In xl7@yahoogroups.com, "Eric" <ericzang@m...> wrote:
> Thanks for the replies everyone! I'm not exactly sure what the 
> answer is though. Triggers can change patterns, you can have 16 
> triggers. What are triggers though? Can they be patch change or CC#?
> 
> To kkhj... yes I do use the rm1x. I am able to change arbitrarily 
> (not limited to sequential) between the 16 different "sections" of 
> a "song" using the Yamaha MFC10 midi footcontroller. It sends 
> something it calls "section change" messages. I think this is sysex 
> for yamaha sequencers.
> 
> Thanks again!

Triggers can be playing notes but they can olso change patterns in os 2.0 depending on how you program it in "controlers" mode.
 
matman, 16 tracks on board can be switched to serve as triggers, and you can't mut/unmute tracks while in the trigger mode.

Matt Picone <matman@...> wrote:
> Thanks for the replies everyone! I'm not exactly sure what the 
> answer is though. Triggers can change patterns, you can have 16 
> triggers. What are triggers though? Can they be patch change or CC#?

NO. Triggers are the unit's onboard playing pads.

> To kkhj... yes I do use the rm1x. I am able to change arbitrarily 
> (not limited to sequential) between the 16 different "sections" of 
> a "song" using the Yamaha MFC10 midi footcontroller. 

> It sends 
> something it calls "section change" messages. I think this is sysex 
> for yamaha sequencers.

Exactly. Not possible on the command station. 

Has emu ever participated in this list? Is there some way we can let
them know of a community request like this? Or am I just spoiled by
Access and Native Instruments...

-m@


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Matt,

Emu's the next best to Access as far as I've seen, Sean and Aaron 
often pop in here and help us with problems, or (in the past) feature 
requests.  They're probaly on vacation right now ??? Sadly, there's 
not much need for more requests, as it's unlikely we'll see a new OS 
fix.  I for one was trying to get a SNAP mode added for the Quick 
edit knobs too.

rEalm

--- In xl7@yahoogroups.com, "Matt Picone" <matman@m...> wrote:

> 
> Has emu ever participated in this list? Is there some way we can let
> them know of a community request like this? Or am I just spoiled by
> Access and Native Instruments...
> 
> -m@

> Matt,
> 
> Emu's the next best to Access as far as I've seen, Sean and Aaron 
> often pop in here and help us with problems, or (in the past) feature 
> requests.  They're probaly on vacation right now ??? Sadly, there's 
> not much need for more requests, as it's unlikely we'll see a new OS 
> fix.  I for one was trying to get a SNAP mode added for the Quick 
> edit knobs too.
> 
> rEalm

Well, for what it's worth, remote control pattern selection would be the
only thing I see missing. Its addition could make this box "more
perfect".

Snap would also be brilliant. 

-m@

--- In xl7@yahoogroups.com, "Matt Picone" <matman@m...> wrote:
> Has emu ever participated in this list? Is there some way we can let
> them know of a community request like this? Or am I just spoiled by
> Access and Native Instruments...

E-mu does participate in the list; not to the degree the Access guys 
do, but they've been good (certainly better than most).

I've been asking for this remote-control pattern switching for some 
time now, and since OS 2.0 is probably the last update it's unlikely 
we'll ever see it. They did put a *lot* of list requests into OS 2.0, 
though; the ability to choose patterns via the triggers is something 
I was pushing for right from the beginning of this group, so I'm very 
happy as it is.

I think their hands are tied somewhat by being owned by Creative; my 
understanding is that we only got OS 2 because the E-mu guys really 
pushed for one more development cycle (thanks Sean and Aaron!).

I'd like to see some changes in the usb department where the machine would not be dependent on computer in order to load patterns and other stuff.

Matt Picone <matman@...> wrote:> Matt,
> 
> Emu's the next best to Access as far as I've seen, Sean and Aaron 
> often pop in here and help us with problems, or (in the past) feature 
> requests.  They're probaly on vacation right now ??? Sadly, there's 
> not much need for more requests, as it's unlikely we'll see a new OS 
> fix.  I for one was trying to get a SNAP mode added for the Quick 
> edit knobs too.
> 
> rEalm

Well, for what it's worth, remote control pattern selection would be the
only thing I see missing. Its addition could make this box "more
perfect".

Snap would also be brilliant. 

-m@


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