MOTM

Since this group seems to be very keen on cables, I have a few studio 
wiring questions to ask.  Any advice is welcome, either publicly or privately.

I'm just finishing off a room in my basement for my studio.  The floor has 
been raised and there are channels in the floor so I can run wires under 
the floor fairly easily.  I like to organize my studio around different 
work areas, mostly based around different synths.  Each area has a submixer 
and Neutrik patchbay with 8 balanced trunk lines running to the console 
area.  This allows me to route things easily to various parts of the studio 
as needed.  When recording, I run the source into a direct box or preamp 
near the work area and run balanced lines to an A/D converter so the 
submixers are only used to keep things available for playing around or 
composing.

In the past, I have used Hosa 8-channel snakes for most of this wiring.  My 
results have been mostly good but I wonder if I could do better.  Most of 
the runs will be under 20'.  Should I:

- Stick with the Hosa snakes
- Make my own snakes out of multiple cables using nice cable and connectors 
- cable recommendations welcome.
- Make snakes out of multi-conductor cable, again suggestions welcome.

Finally, has anyone used balanced power systems and have any information 
good or bad about them?

Thanks,
	Eric

It sounds like your studio is laid out very well.  I have some of my 
synths in my control room and some in the studio.  If the studio 
were strictly for my own use I would probably keep them all in the 
control room, but as it is now I'm constantly running back and forth 
and often moveing them about as well.  My MOTM is in the studio 
rather than the control room (it is too big to move.)  Luckily I can 
remote control ProTools to some degree from the studio.

Anyway, I have used the HOSA snakes as well as a number of other 
brands.  In my experience the HOSAs work just fine and I cannot tell 
any difference between the HOSAs and the more expensive cabling.  I 
also have tried a number of different patch bays.  The biggest 
complaint I have with the patch bays is that although they seem to 
work fine with audio signals, they do not like phantom power.  Since 
I have several very expensive mike preamps and I like the 
versatility of having them wired through the patchbay, I am now 
considering an outboard source of Phantom power which I could place 
near the mics before the signals go into the patchbays at all.  But 
getting back to your question, there are a lot of cable fanatics who 
will say that there is a huge audible difference between cables.  I 
cannot tell the difference with the exception of the very cheapest, 
(Radio Shack quality made in China.)  There are some mechanical 
differences though.  If you plan on moving connections around a lot 
I'd go with better quality cable and jacks.

On the subject of balanced power, I have built my own balanced power 
system for my entire studio with a capacity of 10KW.  I have noticed 
a big improvement using balanced power.  With very few exceptions 
hum is nonexistent and noise seems to be lower as well.  My 
transformers are not toroidal, but they are in an area where there 
is no audio present.  I would strongly recommend using balanced 
power, but I would also strongly recommend buying an off the shelf 
unit rather than taking the do it yourself approach.  The only 
exceptions I have found are that occasionally some single coil 
pickup guitars will pickup hum from my lighting (which is not 
balanced power, but I do use variacs for dimmers.)  At some point I 
may add another large transformer and run my lighting balanced power 
as well.  The other exception is that Samson mixers do not like 
balanced power and always hum like crazy for some reason.  I have 
not had this problem with any other brand of equipment, but have had 
4 different Samson mixers that all hum.

Hope this helps.  I really like your idea of creating work areas.  I 
may think about doing something like that myself.
Paul Haneberg

Hi Eric

> In the past, I have used Hosa 8-channel snakes for most of this 
> wiring.  My
> results have been mostly good but I wonder if I could do better.  Most 
> of
> the runs will be under 20'.  Should I:
>
> - Stick with the Hosa snakes
> - Make my own snakes out of multiple cables using nice cable and 
> connectors
> - cable recommendations welcome.
> - Make snakes out of multi-conductor cable, again suggestions welcome.

While the Hosa snakes aren't the most durable cabling in the world, 
where they always seem to fail is around those molded end connectors, 
and once those go it's not really worth fixing them. Sonically they're 
fine but not amazing, but it doesn't sound like you're building Real 
World in your basement.

Since it sounds like you've already got plenty of them already, why 
don't you wire up as much as you can with those, then as they fail 
one-by-one start replacing with home-built patch cables made from the 
better stuff? In my case, as my old mic cables are failing, I'm 
building Mogami quad ones to replace them.

I hate building snakes. It's a PITA. But that's a personal preference 
thing.

> Finally, has anyone used balanced power systems and have any 
> information
> good or bad about them?

Can't answer that one, but all of these questions have been discussed 
at length on the rec.audio.pro newsgroup. Point Google to Groups and 
start poking around there. The general consensus on the balanced power 
is, yes, it makes a difference, but you're going to have to balance the 
fairly subtle difference (in Digital world) with a fairly expensive 
installation. Folks have said that it makes a much more noticeable 
difference with things like guitar amplifiers.

e

Paul,

Thanks for the thoughtful reply.  I have a feeling that I'll use the Hosa 
snakes that I have and if I need some odd lengths, I'll make them 
myself.  The cabling doesn't move once it is set up.

I use a Keyspan Digital Media Remote for controlling Logic Audio from 
places away from my computer.  This is  a little infrared remote control, 
much like a TV remote control but the base plugs into a USB port.  You can 
customize the buttons for any application.  It seems to work better on Macs 
than on PCs.

To solve the mic preamp problem, I have mounted my preamps in a small SKB 
case with a small patch bay.  The preamps then can move close to the source 
and drive balanced lines back to the converters.

Thanks for the advice on balanced power.  I'm planning to get an Equi-Tech 
unit to power the studio.  I may, gulp, have to get a second one if I don't 
get enough power out of the first.  The problem with these things is that 
they are dog gone expensive!  You don't think about paying that much for 
power...

I found the work area setup necessary once the setup had become too large 
to arrange everything around me.  Funny how modular synths can cause this 
;)  Oh, for a glimpse at how Vince Clarke organizes his synths (dust and 
all), for those who haven't seen this on the AH list, see 
http://www.garethjones.com/erasure_stuff/erasureindex.html

	Eric

Eric--

I didn't see any MOTM in Vince's studio or at the
session.  What gives????

Did you talk to Vince about MOTM at all?

It looks like it was a great gig!

Cheers!
Shemp

> I found the work area setup necessary once the setup
> had become too large 
> to arrange everything around me.  Funny how modular
> synths can cause this 
> ;)  Oh, for a glimpse at how Vince Clarke organizes
> his synths (dust and 
> all), for those who haven't seen this on the AH
> list, see 
>
http://www.garethjones.com/erasure_stuff/erasureindex.html


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> ;)  Oh, for a glimpse at how Vince Clarke organizes
> his synths (dust and all), 

There should REALLY be a law preventing things like this:

http://www.garethjones.com/erasure_stuff/synths/images/116-1603_IMG_JPG.jpg

Makes me want to just cry or something.

My Xpander has been on the floor behind a chair for 3 years. The chair hasn't been sat in in 3
years, either: it's where my bag of packing peanuts rests. Somewhere under THAT is an Eventide
DSP7000 (I *think*). Sigh.

Paul S.

----- Original Message -----

From: "Les Mizzell" <lesmizz@...>
To: <motm@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Monday, February 17, 2003 11:05 PM
Subject: RE: [motm] Vince Clark and his MOTM?


>
> > ;)  Oh, for a glimpse at how Vince Clarke organizes
> > his synths (dust and all),
>
> There should REALLY be a law preventing things like this:
>
> http://www.garethjones.com/erasure_stuff/synths/images/116-1603_IMG_JPG.jpg
>
> Makes me want to just cry or something.
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>

--- In motm@yahoogroups.com, "Les Mizzell" <lesmizz@b...> wrote:
> 
> There should REALLY be a law preventing things like this:
> 
http://www.garethjones.com/erasure_stuff/synths/images/116-1603_IMG_JP
G.jpg
> 
> Makes me want to just cry or something.

Its obviously seen some use - maybe even gone on tour?  Not 
necessarily a bad thing...

I actually own two of those!  (Neither one in bad shape - though one 
of them does have a failing encoder.)


Seth

>Its obviously seen some use - maybe even gone on tour?  Not
>necessarily a bad thing...

I saw it once on The Tube or Later With Jools Holland back in England 
so it's probably been around a bit.....

> http://www.garethjones.com/erasure_stuff/synths/images/116-1603_IMG_JP
> G.jpg
> >
> > Makes me want to just cry or something.
> Its obviously seen some use - maybe even gone on tour?  Not
> necessarily a bad thing...

Yup - it has. Vince mentioned it in a magazine article somewhere that the
Xpander was used in the Chorus tour.

Though I must admit I never have had the urge to get naked or go shirtless
in the studio with my fellow composers...

-->Neil

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Neil Bradley            In the land of the blind, the one eyed man is not
Synthcom Systems, Inc.  king - he's a prisoner.
ICQ #29402898

Ummm, I don't know Vince but I'd love to watch him work in his studio 
sometime.  I'm sure I'd learn a lot!

         Eric


At 08:59 PM 2/17/2003 -0800, Tentochi wrote:

>Eric--
>
>I didn't see any MOTM in Vince's studio or at the
>session.  What gives????
>
>Did you talk to Vince about MOTM at all?
>
>It looks like it was a great gig!
>
>Cheers!
>Shemp
>
> > I found the work area setup necessary once the setup
> > had become too large
> > to arrange everything around me.  Funny how modular
> > synths can cause this
> > ;)  Oh, for a glimpse at how Vince Clarke organizes
> > his synths (dust and
> > all), for those who haven't seen this on the AH
> > list, see
> >
>http://www.garethjones.com/erasure_stuff/erasureindex.html
>
>
>__________________________________________________
>Do you Yahoo!?
>Yahoo! Shopping - Send Flowers for Valentine's Day
>http://shopping.yahoo.com
>
>
>
>Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/