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Re: pre-amp (was: Getting back to 'normal')

Re: pre-amp (was: Getting back to 'normal')

2001-09-21 by Eric Frampton

mark@... wrote:

> Imho, I don't think it's worth bringing out the pre-amp module at all.  I
> don't want to argue the point again -- I've already expressed my opinion
> and been flamed for it.  Anyway, since the pre-amp and the envelope
> follower are a likely combination for anyone using a guitar or bass with
> the MOTM system, couldn't an "input gain" knob be added to the envelope
> follower to give it a pre-amp function??

I agree. There are lots of pre-amps of all shapes and sizes out there, and I
think Paul's MOTM development time would be better spent on other things.
Everyone seems to like their own flavor of pre-amp, anyway. I like the idea
that perhaps the envelope follower might have a simple pre built into it,
but only for the convenience factor of having it all right there.

I can't wait to see what Paul comes up with for an envelope follower.

Eric

-----

Eric Frampton, keyboards     Atlanta, Georgia, USA
web: http://www.ericframpton.com/
email: eric@...

Re: [motm] Re: pre-amp (was: Getting back to 'normal')

2001-09-21 by J. Larry Hendry

It seems to me that when there was significant discussion on the list
concerning a pre-amp that it was not so much about the characteristics of a
pre-amp as it was just people wanting to match line levels with their MOTM
stuff.  People want to hook up their guitars and microphones and line levels
synths and such.  So, maybe what we need is something simple in a 1U package
to do just that.  I think that was the idea behind a separate preamp.  Then,
one input can be optimized for guitar impedance, one for line level signals
and one for guitar signals since each signal has its own unique need.

Certainly anyone in need of simply boosting their line level or guitar level
signal up to MOTM level could DIY a simple op amp circuit with gain if they
are into DIY at all.

I am not saying an envelope follower should not have a pre-amp.  But, I can
see the logic for a stand alone unit with more features (mic balanced input,
phantom power, specific guitar impedance match input) than you would find on
a simple pre-amp added to another module function would support.

My $.02
Larry Hendry
Show quoted textHide quoted text
----- Original Message -----
From: Eric Frampton <eframp@...>
I agree. There are lots of pre-amps of all shapes
and sizes out there... snip....

Everyone seems to like their own flavor of pre-amp,
anyway.....

Re: [motm] Re: pre-amp (was: Getting back to 'normal')

2001-09-21 by mark@indole.net

At 10:31 AM -0500 09/21/01, J. Larry Hendry wrote:
>
>It seems to me that when there was significant discussion on the list
>concerning a pre-amp that it was not so much about the characteristics of a
>pre-amp as it was just people wanting to match line levels with their MOTM
>stuff.

As you know, line level already matches MOTM, as MOTM is about 14dBu.  I
use line level with my MOTM all the time and have had absolutely no
problems.

>People want to hook up their guitars and microphones and line levels
>synths and such.  So, maybe what we need is something simple in a 1U
>>package to do just that.  I think that was the idea behind a separate
>>preamp.  Then, one input can be optimized for guitar impedance, one for
>>line level signals and one for guitar signals since each signal has its
>own >unique need.

This is true.  A mic pre and a direct box for a guitar are two different
things.  As such, each of these devices has different expectations as to
the features available.  A mic pre should have balanced XLR inputs and
phantom power.  An active direct box can often has overdrive.  Nevermind
features like high-pass filters, ground lift, and variable impedance.
Considering the variety of devices on the market, many of which are very
application specific or have a distinct sonic characteristic, no one
pre-amp can be all things to all people, and in all likelihood, most MOTM
owners have already chosen their favorites.

>Certainly anyone in need of simply boosting their line level or guitar
>>level signal up to MOTM level could DIY a simple op amp circuit with gain
>>if they are into DIY at all.

I agree, although more importantly, anyone who owns a guitar or microphone
should already have gear to get the signal up to line-livel.

>I am not saying an envelope follower should not have a pre-amp.  But, I can
>see the logic for a stand alone unit with more features (mic balanced
>>input, phantom power, specific guitar impedance match input) than you
>would >find on a simple pre-amp added to another module function would
>support.

I think adding enough input gain, perhaps wired so that more gain would be
a lower input impedance, would be a quick solution for those who want to
plug directly into the envelope follower.  However, I do not know if there
is knob space.

I believe as it stands now, the envelope follower is a 2U module.  Another
option would be to develop two 1U modules:  an envelope follower/compressor
based on THAT technology, and a separate window comparator module with a
gate output.

I remember Paul S. saying something to the effect that he isn't out to
compete with Manley or Avalon, and I agree with him.  I'm not doubting his
incredible skill as a designer, it's just that competing products at that
level often cost over $1000.  As it stands now, each individual MOTM module
is higher-quality and a better value than any other product on the market
that performs a similar function.  If MOTM comes out with a pre-amp, this
will no longer be true, as using a better, albeit more expensive, pre-amp
from another manufacturer will always be an option.

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