Datacolor User to User Support Group.

Hello folks,
...have you considered that Paper White Compensation is only for
softproofing and doesn't alter the print?

Best
Peter


--- In colorvision_group@yahoogroups.com, Myron Gochnauer <goch@...>
wrote:
>
> My experience has been that Paper White Compensation is necessary  
> (and possible) only with brightened papers. With non OBA papers there  
> are no negative numbers to begin with.
> 
> Myron
> 
> 
> On 6-Jan-07, at 3:01 PM, bwinkjet wrote:
> 
> > Will,
> > I'm not sure, but suspect that the way Colorvision has chosen to deal
> > with the UV effects of OBA's may be the variable.  I will, when I get
> > time, profile a non OBA paper and see if the need to check Paper
> > White Compensation remains necessary to obviate a great part of the
> > color cast we note.
> > Paul
> >
> > --- In colorvision_group@yahoogroups.com, "willruggles" <2rcp@>
> > wrote:
> >>
> >> Hey Paul,
> >>
> >> Thanks for the encouragement. I am glad to hear that you arrived at
> >> good profiles and found that all your gear was OK. With the
> > variables
> >> of a new (and expensive!) monitor setup, and a new iteration of the
> >> program, it got confusing for me. I wonder why we are experiencing
> >> roughly the same color shift issues, manageable as they may be with
> > a
> >> relatively consistent range of adjustments. On the other hand,
> > though
> >> you have found that different levels of Magenta and Blue will put
> >> things right, the need for up to 5 Magenta and 12 Blue indicates
> > what
> >> is to me a lot of Green/Yellow to compensate for. The down side of
> >> this is it can present the need for a lot of testing, which is what
> > I
> >> bought PFP to avoid. I wonder if it is that Eizo and Lacie have
> >> similar methods of describing and arriving at neutral colors, and
> > that
> >> these are different from the Colorvision models used in developing
> >> PrinFixPro? I look forward to a response from David (s) to get his
> >> take on this color shift issue and on my questions about using dual
> >> monitors on a Mac in my original post.
> >>
> >> Thanks again,
> >>
> >> Will
> >>
> >> .--- In colorvision_group@yahoogroups.com, "bwinkjet" <bwinkjet@>
> >> wrote:
> >>>
> >>> Hi Will,
> >>>
> >>> Much of what you describe has been my experience as well.  David
> >>> (both) helped and with a lot of work on my own I now have
> > profiles
> >>> that I feel are better than the canned profiles and as good as if
> > not
> >>> better than those provided with Image Print Rip.
> >>>
> >>> My solution is:  When creating the profile go to reference white
> > and
> >>> check the box Paper White Compensation, effectively setting the b
> >>> axis to 0.  With this done depending on the paper I am able to
> > get
> >>> very good profiles with 4-12 units of blue and on some, but not
> > all,
> >>> papers up to 5 units of magenta.  This is easily tweaked by
> > several
> >>> iterations until you are pleased.  I too worried my Eizo monitor
> >>> (profiled) was off and tried calibration at 5500 up to 6500,
> > gamma
> >>> 1.8 and 2.2 and have come to the conclusion my monitor is OK, my
> >>> printers are OK and the spectrocolorimeter is OK.  It took a
> > while,
> >>> but I learned a great deal including the viewing light is crucial.
> >>>
> >>> HTH
> >>>
> >>> Paul
> >>>
> >>> "willruggles" <2rcp@> wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>> I am confused. I just got a Lacie 321 and also changed from
> >>> Printfix Pro Beta to the final
> >>>> 2.0 version. I printed a 225 patch as well as the extended gray
> > one
> >>> on Epson En Matte, and
> >>>> after drying, read them, finally making profiles with and
> > without
> >>> the Extended Gray.
> >>>> Printing from within PFP the Brightness and Contrast were
> > pretty
> >>> close, and saturation a bit
> >>>> high, but the color was way off toward Yellow/Green. I printed
> > some
> >>> other images. They
> >>>> also printed off with this green/yellow cast in color and black
> > and
> >>> white. Also, I saw little
> >>>> difference with an intent of Sat or Perc.
> >>>>
> >>>> I was amazed since I had had better luck earlier with beta
> > versions
> >>> and using my old
> >>>> monitor. So I tried a 729 with X-Gray reading. Very close to
> > the
> >>> 225 and off! I had to
> >>>> adjust the Green down 6, Red up 1, and the Blue up 12 to get a
> >>> decent match for my
> >>>> monitor. Even with the new subtler color slider values this
> > seems
> >>> like a lot of adjustment
> >>>> after nearly 1000 readings to make the profile for the printer.
> > And
> >>> all the gear is good
> >>>> stuff that is carefully calibrated.
> >>>>
> >>>> I use an Epson 2200 and Mac OS 10.4.8, a Lacie 321 and a
> > Samsung
> >>> 191T. I have the
> >>>> desktop, menus and tools on the Samsung and the images from
> >>> Photoshop on the Lacie.
> >>>> Both monitors are calibrated to 5000K 2.2 gamma, 110 Luminance
> > and
> >>> I use a 5000K
> >>>> viewing light. The Lacie is hardware calibrated and the
> > Samsung's
> >>> hardware is RGB
> >>>> adjusted for color and luminance and software calibrated. They
> > both
> >>> look Neutral and
> >>>> when dragging images across them, the color is pretty close. I
> > am
> >>> using Adobe RGB for the
> >>>> Photoshop color space and printing to the new profiles,
> > perceptual
> >>> intent and letting
> >>>> photoshop determine colors. The Epson paper choice is for
> > Enhanced
> >>> Matte (the paper I
> >>>> am profiling for) with no color management.
> >>>>
> >>>> First I wondered if Photoshop was using the profile from the
> >>> Samsung while I was
> >>>> adjusting images on the Lacie since the Mac menu bar and
> > Photoshop
> >>> tools are on the
> >>>> samsung. So I looked, and its profile does show up as the
> > monitor
> >>> in use in the workspace
> >>>> pull down in photoshop's color settings (I keep the workspace
> > set
> >>> at Adobe RGB). So I set
> >>>> the Samsung Display preference to use the same profile as the
> >>> Lacie, but the printing
> >>>> seemed about the same. I do have the Samsung basically hardware
> >>> calibrated though, so
> >>>> Photoshop could be using its profile and it is so close to the
> >>> Lacie profile that I have not
> >>>> seen the difference in my limited testing. In the meantime I am
> >>> choosing the Lacie profile
> >>>> in the Samsung Display Color Preference for all testing just in
> >>> case. Calibrating the Lacie to
> >>>> 6500 or to a higher or lower luminance does not help. Also
> >>> calibrating the Lacie (over the
> >>>> previous hardware calibration) with Spyder Pro or Eye One
> > software
> >>> calibration changes
> >>>> things a teeny bit on screen but printed I find any difference
> >>> indiscernible. Certainly not
> >>>> meaningful relative to the yellow/green shift.
> >>>>
> >>>> So my questions are:
> >>>>
> >>>> What am I doing wrong?
> >>>> Is this level of color shift in spec for Printfix Pro?
> >>>> Is my spectro off?
> >>>> Is it necessary to have your primary viewing monitor on a Mac
> > be
> >>> setup as such in
> >>>> Photoshop so that its profile is the start of color management,
> > or
> >>> does it automatically
> >>>> recognize the monitor the image is viewed on as the source
> > monitor?
> >>>> If it is necessary, is there a way to do this (other than
> > manually
> >>> as I have been doing) and
> >>>> still have the menu bar on the secondary monitor? I like not
> > having
> >>> anything but the photo
> >>>> on the viewing monitor.
> >>>>
> >>>> By the way, I love the black and white possibilities with PPF.
> > With
> >>> my printer left on color,
> >>>> once the profile is tweaked, it works impressively for Black
> > and
> >>> White printing. Also, I
> >>>> found it helpful tweaking out this color shift with a black and
> >>> white image since the shifts
> >>>> show up quite clearly against grays and black. And finally,
> >>> contrast and brightness are
> >>>> easier for me to discern without the distraction of color. So
> > for
> >>> color profiles, what a nice
> >>>> addition the extended grays have brought to the tools!
> >>>>
> >>>> Thanks for any advice.
> >>>>
> >>>> Will
> >>>>
> >>>
> >>
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Yahoo! Groups Links
> >
> >
> >
>