Datacolor User to User Support Group.

Hi Peter

Maybe so, don't claim to know all about these things.  I can say 
profiles are better since checking it and then wondering where the 
yellow went.  (and I don't use Pepsodent)  Guess you are saying 
something about the power of suggestion.  Maybe David can help me out 
here.

Paul

--- In colorvision_group@yahoogroups.com, "peter_woelk" 
<peter_woelk@...> wrote:
>
> Hello folks,
> ...have you considered that Paper White Compensation is only for
> softproofing and doesn't alter the print?
> 
> Best
> Peter
> 
> 
> --- In colorvision_group@yahoogroups.com, Myron Gochnauer <goch@>
> wrote:
> >
> > My experience has been that Paper White Compensation is 
necessary  
> > (and possible) only with brightened papers. With non OBA papers 
there  
> > are no negative numbers to begin with.
> > 
> > Myron
> > 
> > 
> > On 6-Jan-07, at 3:01 PM, bwinkjet wrote:
> > 
> > > Will,
> > > I'm not sure, but suspect that the way Colorvision has chosen 
to deal
> > > with the UV effects of OBA's may be the variable.  I will, when 
I get
> > > time, profile a non OBA paper and see if the need to check Paper
> > > White Compensation remains necessary to obviate a great part of 
the
> > > color cast we note.
> > > Paul
> > >
> > > --- In colorvision_group@yahoogroups.com, "willruggles" <2rcp@>
> > > wrote:
> > >>
> > >> Hey Paul,
> > >>
> > >> Thanks for the encouragement. I am glad to hear that you 
arrived at
> > >> good profiles and found that all your gear was OK. With the
> > > variables
> > >> of a new (and expensive!) monitor setup, and a new iteration 
of the
> > >> program, it got confusing for me. I wonder why we are 
experiencing
> > >> roughly the same color shift issues, manageable as they may be 
with
> > > a
> > >> relatively consistent range of adjustments. On the other hand,
> > > though
> > >> you have found that different levels of Magenta and Blue will 
put
> > >> things right, the need for up to 5 Magenta and 12 Blue 
indicates
> > > what
> > >> is to me a lot of Green/Yellow to compensate for. The down 
side of
> > >> this is it can present the need for a lot of testing, which is 
what
> > > I
> > >> bought PFP to avoid. I wonder if it is that Eizo and Lacie have
> > >> similar methods of describing and arriving at neutral colors, 
and
> > > that
> > >> these are different from the Colorvision models used in 
developing
> > >> PrinFixPro? I look forward to a response from David (s) to get 
his
> > >> take on this color shift issue and on my questions about using 
dual
> > >> monitors on a Mac in my original post.
> > >>
> > >> Thanks again,
> > >>
> > >> Will
> > >>
> > >> .--- In colorvision_group@yahoogroups.com, "bwinkjet" 
<bwinkjet@>
> > >> wrote:
> > >>>
> > >>> Hi Will,
> > >>>
> > >>> Much of what you describe has been my experience as well.  
David
> > >>> (both) helped and with a lot of work on my own I now have
> > > profiles
> > >>> that I feel are better than the canned profiles and as good 
as if
> > > not
> > >>> better than those provided with Image Print Rip.
> > >>>
> > >>> My solution is:  When creating the profile go to reference 
white
> > > and
> > >>> check the box Paper White Compensation, effectively setting 
the b
> > >>> axis to 0.  With this done depending on the paper I am able to
> > > get
> > >>> very good profiles with 4-12 units of blue and on some, but 
not
> > > all,
> > >>> papers up to 5 units of magenta.  This is easily tweaked by
> > > several
> > >>> iterations until you are pleased.  I too worried my Eizo 
monitor
> > >>> (profiled) was off and tried calibration at 5500 up to 6500,
> > > gamma
> > >>> 1.8 and 2.2 and have come to the conclusion my monitor is OK, 
my
> > >>> printers are OK and the spectrocolorimeter is OK.  It took a
> > > while,
> > >>> but I learned a great deal including the viewing light is 
crucial.
> > >>>
> > >>> HTH
> > >>>
> > >>> Paul
> > >>>
> > >>> "willruggles" <2rcp@> wrote:
> > >>>>
> > >>>> I am confused. I just got a Lacie 321 and also changed from
> > >>> Printfix Pro Beta to the final
> > >>>> 2.0 version. I printed a 225 patch as well as the extended 
gray
> > > one
> > >>> on Epson En Matte, and
> > >>>> after drying, read them, finally making profiles with and
> > > without
> > >>> the Extended Gray.
> > >>>> Printing from within PFP the Brightness and Contrast were
> > > pretty
> > >>> close, and saturation a bit
> > >>>> high, but the color was way off toward Yellow/Green. I 
printed
> > > some
> > >>> other images. They
> > >>>> also printed off with this green/yellow cast in color and 
black
> > > and
> > >>> white. Also, I saw little
> > >>>> difference with an intent of Sat or Perc.
> > >>>>
> > >>>> I was amazed since I had had better luck earlier with beta
> > > versions
> > >>> and using my old
> > >>>> monitor. So I tried a 729 with X-Gray reading. Very close to
> > > the
> > >>> 225 and off! I had to
> > >>>> adjust the Green down 6, Red up 1, and the Blue up 12 to get 
a
> > >>> decent match for my
> > >>>> monitor. Even with the new subtler color slider values this
> > > seems
> > >>> like a lot of adjustment
> > >>>> after nearly 1000 readings to make the profile for the 
printer.
> > > And
> > >>> all the gear is good
> > >>>> stuff that is carefully calibrated.
> > >>>>
> > >>>> I use an Epson 2200 and Mac OS 10.4.8, a Lacie 321 and a
> > > Samsung
> > >>> 191T. I have the
> > >>>> desktop, menus and tools on the Samsung and the images from
> > >>> Photoshop on the Lacie.
> > >>>> Both monitors are calibrated to 5000K 2.2 gamma, 110 
Luminance
> > > and
> > >>> I use a 5000K
> > >>>> viewing light. The Lacie is hardware calibrated and the
> > > Samsung's
> > >>> hardware is RGB
> > >>>> adjusted for color and luminance and software calibrated. 
They
> > > both
> > >>> look Neutral and
> > >>>> when dragging images across them, the color is pretty close. 
I
> > > am
> > >>> using Adobe RGB for the
> > >>>> Photoshop color space and printing to the new profiles,
> > > perceptual
> > >>> intent and letting
> > >>>> photoshop determine colors. The Epson paper choice is for
> > > Enhanced
> > >>> Matte (the paper I
> > >>>> am profiling for) with no color management.
> > >>>>
> > >>>> First I wondered if Photoshop was using the profile from the
> > >>> Samsung while I was
> > >>>> adjusting images on the Lacie since the Mac menu bar and
> > > Photoshop
> > >>> tools are on the
> > >>>> samsung. So I looked, and its profile does show up as the
> > > monitor
> > >>> in use in the workspace
> > >>>> pull down in photoshop's color settings (I keep the workspace
> > > set
> > >>> at Adobe RGB). So I set
> > >>>> the Samsung Display preference to use the same profile as the
> > >>> Lacie, but the printing
> > >>>> seemed about the same. I do have the Samsung basically 
hardware
> > >>> calibrated though, so
> > >>>> Photoshop could be using its profile and it is so close to 
the
> > >>> Lacie profile that I have not
> > >>>> seen the difference in my limited testing. In the meantime I 
am
> > >>> choosing the Lacie profile
> > >>>> in the Samsung Display Color Preference for all testing just 
in
> > >>> case. Calibrating the Lacie to
> > >>>> 6500 or to a higher or lower luminance does not help. Also
> > >>> calibrating the Lacie (over the
> > >>>> previous hardware calibration) with Spyder Pro or Eye One
> > > software
> > >>> calibration changes
> > >>>> things a teeny bit on screen but printed I find any 
difference
> > >>> indiscernible. Certainly not
> > >>>> meaningful relative to the yellow/green shift.
> > >>>>
> > >>>> So my questions are:
> > >>>>
> > >>>> What am I doing wrong?
> > >>>> Is this level of color shift in spec for Printfix Pro?
> > >>>> Is my spectro off?
> > >>>> Is it necessary to have your primary viewing monitor on a Mac
> > > be
> > >>> setup as such in
> > >>>> Photoshop so that its profile is the start of color 
management,
> > > or
> > >>> does it automatically
> > >>>> recognize the monitor the image is viewed on as the source
> > > monitor?
> > >>>> If it is necessary, is there a way to do this (other than
> > > manually
> > >>> as I have been doing) and
> > >>>> still have the menu bar on the secondary monitor? I like not
> > > having
> > >>> anything but the photo
> > >>>> on the viewing monitor.
> > >>>>
> > >>>> By the way, I love the black and white possibilities with 
PPF.
> > > With
> > >>> my printer left on color,
> > >>>> once the profile is tweaked, it works impressively for Black
> > > and
> > >>> White printing. Also, I
> > >>>> found it helpful tweaking out this color shift with a black 
and
> > >>> white image since the shifts
> > >>>> show up quite clearly against grays and black. And finally,
> > >>> contrast and brightness are
> > >>>> easier for me to discern without the distraction of color. So
> > > for
> > >>> color profiles, what a nice
> > >>>> addition the extended grays have brought to the tools!
> > >>>>
> > >>>> Thanks for any advice.
> > >>>>
> > >>>> Will
> > >>>>
> > >>>
> > >>
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Yahoo! Groups Links
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
>