Vintage Simmons Drums (UK) Users Group

Hi

I've been a member of this great forum for less than 1 week.  Something made me realise a few weeks ago that the drum kit I have wanted all my life is not a ddrum kit, it's not a V-drum kit, it's one of those gorgeous hexagonal drum kits I remember from the 80s.

So I've been doing some research, scouring eBay, reading the Simmons Virtual Museum site, finding out as much as I can.  I have my eye on a nice looking SDS-8 kit (pads only).

And then today, during a holiday in the south of France, I was in a village tucked away in the hills.  The locals were having a market, ie taking a chance to clear out their junk.  And almost the first thing I saw, on a table in amongst various other junk, was an SDS-800 brain.  I nearly fell over.

The French guy selling it to me seemed embarassed to take 10 Euros off me for it.

Now it has to be said that it does not look in great condition.  It's very grimy and dusty.  The Tom 2 Trig LED is completely missing.  So I have no idea whether this thing is going to work.  I've plugged it in, and the only sign of life I have is that the Run Generator LED switches on and off when the button is pressed.  Otherwise I have no way of knowing if this thing is alive or not.

I really want an SDSV brain, and being more realistic I think the SDS8 is what I would hope to buy in the near future (I just love vintage 80s analogue drum sounds).  But from what I've read, if it works, this SDS-800 could be a little miracle.

What are your thoughts on the SDS-800 versus the SDS-8?  Cosmetically they look similar but I think I've read more opinions in favour of the 8 than the 800.  Would you guys still hunt for an SDS-8 brain, even if my bargain is fully functioning?

Oh and will SDS-8 pads trigger the SDS-800 brain?

Yours excitedly

Aaron

Aaron Thomas skrev:
> I've been a member of this great forum for less than 1 week. Something 
> made me realise a few weeks ago that the drum kit I have wanted all my 
> life is not a ddrum kit, it's not a V-drum kit, it's one of those 
> gorgeous hexagonal drum kits I remember from the 80s.

Great! Another newly-convinced! :D

> So I've been doing some research, scouring eBay, reading the Simmons 
> Virtual Museum site, finding out as much as I can. I have my eye on a 
> nice looking SDS-8 kit (pads only).
> 
> And then today, during a holiday in the south of France, I was in a 
> village tucked away in the hills. The locals were having a market, ie 
> taking a chance to clear out their junk. And almost the first thing I 
> saw, on a table in amongst various other junk, was an SDS-800 brain. I 
> nearly fell over.
> 
> The French guy selling it to me seemed embarassed to take 10 Euros off 
> me for it.

Congrat's!

> Now it has to be said that it does not look in great condition. It's 
> very grimy and dusty. The Tom 2 Trig LED is completely missing. So I 
> have no idea whether this thing is going to work. I've plugged it in, 
> and the only sign of life I have is that the Run Generator LED switches 
> on and off when the button is pressed. Otherwise I have no way of 
> knowing if this thing is alive or not.
> 
> I really want an SDSV brain, and being more realistic I think the SDS8 
> is what I would hope to buy in the near future (I just love vintage 80s 
> analogue drum sounds). But from what I've read, if it works, this 
> SDS-800 could be a little miracle.
> 
> What are your thoughts on the SDS-800 versus the SDS-8? Cosmetically 
> they look similar but I think I've read more opinions in favour of the 8 
> than the 800. Would you guys still hunt for an SDS-8 brain, even if my 
> bargain is fully functioning?
> 
> Oh and will SDS-8 pads trigger the SDS-800 brain?
> 
> Yours excitedly
> 
> Aaron

The SDS-8 set should work well with the 800. 10 euros is a bargain if 
only for the CEM-circuits inside.

But try to trig the sounds with something else. have you got any trigger 
pad now? Any synth that outputs a decent voltage or similar?

The SDS-800 is no toy and the SDS-8 sure is no big "upgrade" anyway. Try 
this bargain first and if it works - use it! If it seems repairable - 
repair it! If it's beyond hope - sell the parts and get another Simmons! 
Once you're stuck, you're stuck. :)

Once again - congratulations!

-- 
electronically yours, jesper

- -- --- ---- ----- ---- --- -- -
www.electronic-obsession.se
www.myspace.com/machinepop

Congratulation !

Berk

--- In Simmons_Drums@yahoogroups.com, jesper <jesper@...> wrote:
>
> Aaron Thomas skrev:
> > I've been a member of this great forum for less than 1 week. Something 
> > made me realise a few weeks ago that the drum kit I have wanted all my 
> > life is not a ddrum kit, it's not a V-drum kit, it's one of those 
> > gorgeous hexagonal drum kits I remember from the 80s.
> 
> Great! Another newly-convinced! :D
> 

I'm not sure why it has taken me so long to become converted.  I've always loved the look of the Simmons pads.

> The SDS-8 set should work well with the 800. 10 euros is a bargain if 
> only for the CEM-circuits inside.
> 
> But try to trig the sounds with something else. have you got any trigger 
> pad now? Any synth that outputs a decent voltage or similar?
> 

At home I have an MC-202 and a DR-110, both of which will output a nice trigger voltage.  I'm sure my MS-10 could output something useful too.  But they're at home and I'm in France.  And I have no patience.  ;-)

However the SDS-800 came with a pile of audio cables, and I remembered an old trick.  I plugged a cable into each of the trigger inputs, and hit the other end of the cable, to generate a spike.  And every single trigger LED lights up!  Even the one for Tom 2, which is hidden inside the case just below the hole.  The run generator lights up too.  I'm very happy, this has to be a good sign!

> The SDS-800 is no toy and the SDS-8 sure is no big "upgrade" anyway. 

What are the differences, sonically, between the SDS-8 and SDS-800?  Is there a difference in sound quality?  I notice there's an SDS-8 brain in eBay.  If you had an SDS-800 brain would you bother trying to find an SDS-8 too?

> Try 
> this bargain first and if it works - use it! If it seems repairable - 
> repair it! If it's beyond hope - sell the parts and get another Simmons! 
> Once you're stuck, you're stuck. :)
> 

I think I'm already stuck!

> Once again - congratulations!
> 
> -- 
> electronically yours, jesper

Thanks Jesper, and Berk too!

Aaron (still excited)

Aaron Thomas skrev:
> At home I have an MC-202 and a DR-110, both of which will output a nice 
> trigger voltage. I'm sure my MS-10 could output something useful too. 
> But they're at home and I'm in France. And I have no patience. ;-)

The MS-10 is great for testing all kinds of E-drums since the LFO 
outputs both positive and negative voltages. I remember my 
Electro-Harmonix Crash Pad had a problem since it only accepted negative 
trigger (before mod).

> However the SDS-800 came with a pile of audio cables, and I remembered 
> an old trick. I plugged a cable into each of the trigger inputs, and hit 
> the other end of the cable, to generate a spike. And every single 
> trigger LED lights up! Even the one for Tom 2, which is hidden inside 
> the case just below the hole. The run generator lights up too. I'm very 
> happy, this has to be a good sign!

Sounds like a very good start!

> If you had an SDS-800 brain would you bother trying to find an 
> SDS-8 too?

Without aiming at being a snobb I can mention I've owned three SDS-8's 
during the years and ended up selling all of these. These scaled down 
drum synths with the legendary "piouw-sound" isn't something I need. I 
have other gear that serves me better.
_But_ I think that if your 800 is working like it should I see no need 
to "upgrade" to a SDS-8. If you get along well, search for a SDS-V 
instead or maybe SDS-7 if you find a working unit locally (since they're 
not really built for shipping). We hardcore nerds hail the SDS-3 a lot 
too. 8-)

> I think I'm already stuck!

Cool! :)

-- 
electronically yours, jesper

- -- --- ---- ----- ---- --- -- -
www.electronic-obsession.se
www.myspace.com/machinepop

> Without aiming at being a snobb I can mention I've owned three SDS-8's 
> during the years and ended up selling all of these. These scaled down 
> drum synths with the legendary "piouw-sound" isn't something I need. I 
> have other gear that serves me better.
> _But_ I think that if your 800 is working like it should I see no need 
> to "upgrade" to a SDS-8. 

That's really useful advice - thank you.  The resonant snare on the SDS-800 sounds like a useful feature.

> If you get along well, search for a SDS-V 
> instead or maybe SDS-7 if you find a working unit locally (since they're 
> not really built for shipping). 

I think it's the SDS-V I will dream of finding.  With hihat module :-)  Another newbie question - do you need SDS-V pads to trigger the SDS-V brain, or will other versions of the pads work?  Am I right that the different versions of pads put out different voltages for their triggers?

> We hardcore nerds hail the SDS-3 a lot 
> too. 8-)

Yes, I've noticed that one - looks very interesting.  And expensive I would guess!!

Aaron

Aaron Thomas skrev:
> I think it's the SDS-V I will dream of finding. With hihat module :-) 

...and Cymbal! :)

> Another newbie question - do you need SDS-V pads to trigger the SDS-V 
> brain, or will other versions of the pads work? Am I right that the 
> different versions of pads put out different voltages for their triggers?

There are different trigger voltages, but I'm no tech wiz here. There 
are however workarounds to this...

>  > We hardcore nerds hail the SDS-3 a lot
>  > too. 8-)
> 
> Yes, I've noticed that one - looks very interesting. And expensive I 
> would guess!!

Absurd prices on Ebay these days - yes. But they do surface from time to 
time like your SDS-800 did...

-- 
electronically yours, jesper

- -- --- ---- ----- ---- --- -- -
www.electronic-obsession.se
www.myspace.com/machinepop

Just had my first chance to try the SDS-800 I picked up at a French market the other week...

It's okay, but I don't think it's right.

The bass channel is the least satisfactory.  If I turn the overall level down to zero, it's fine.  Otherwise I get a constant "howling" sort of noise.  The volume of the howling is governed by the Click Level pot.  With this turned fully clockwise, the howling is loud - with this pot turned fully anti-clockwise, the howling is quiet but still there.

I can still trigger the bass channel despite the howling, but it doesn't sound anything like a bass - it sounds quite high pitched, more like a tom.

The snare seems reasonbly okay although doesn't sound a lot like the classic Simmons snare I was expecting.  I can't seem to get that sharp Kraftwerk-esque sound I want.  Sounds more like a tom sound with resonance. 

Tom 1 seems absolutely fine - and triggers the run generator nicely.

Tom 2 is a little strange.  The Decay pot doesn't seem to have any impact on the length of the sound being produced.  It's constantly a short sharp sound.  In fact this channel seems to produce sounds which sound far more like a kick drum than the bass channel does!

And finally the output I get from the Headphone socket is a little noisy, compared to the individual outs and the stereo / mix outs on the back of the box.

It's a bit of a shopping list of problems!  Bearing in mind I'm a complete newbie to this, and have never opened one of these machines up before - where would you suggest I start?

Fingers crossed you guys can help - and thank you in advance for all advice given.

Aaron

Aaron Thomas skrev:
> Just had my first chance to try the SDS-800 I picked up at a French 
> market the other week...
> 
> It's okay, but I don't think it's right.

AS might be expected with that price.

> The bass channel is the least satisfactory. If I turn the overall level 
> down to zero, it's fine. Otherwise I get a constant "howling" sort of 
> noise. The volume of the howling is governed by the Click Level pot. 
> With this turned fully clockwise, the howling is loud - with this pot 
> turned fully anti-clockwise, the howling is quiet but still there.

I know the tech's here know more, but a leaking opamp or similar maybe?

> I can still trigger the bass channel despite the howling, but it doesn't 
> sound anything like a bass - it sounds quite high pitched, more like a tom.

I think that's just one problem in there, that manifests itself like this.

> The snare seems reasonbly okay although doesn't sound a lot like the 
> classic Simmons snare I was expecting. I can't seem to get that sharp 
> Kraftwerk-esque sound I want. Sounds more like a tom sound with resonance.

Have you got any noise whatsoever? Otherwise it might be this circuit. 
Without noise it's suppose to sound resonant and strange.

> Tom 1 seems absolutely fine - and triggers the run generator nicely.

Great! :)

> Tom 2 is a little strange. The Decay pot doesn't seem to have any impact 
> on the length of the sound being produced. It's constantly a short sharp 
> sound. In fact this channel seems to produce sounds which sound far more 
> like a kick drum than the bass channel does!

Sounds like it's just the decay pot or maybe the circuitry connected to it.

> And finally the output I get from the Headphone socket is a little 
> noisy, compared to the individual outs and the stereo / mix outs on the 
> back of the box.

As I recall this is a factory flaw. Others might be able to confirm this...

> It's a bit of a shopping list of problems! Bearing in mind I'm a 
> complete newbie to this, and have never opened one of these machines up 
> before - where would you suggest I start?

I'm no wiz but I'd start with the decay pot. If that gets solved you get 
energy to attack the next issue. :)

> Fingers crossed you guys can help - and thank you in advance for all 
> advice given.

Otherwise we have a few skilled techs here on the list. If it cannot be 
solved via the list it might be worth having it serviced.

Good luck!

-- 
electronically yours, jesper

- -- --- ---- ----- ---- --- -- -
www.electronic-obsession.se
www.myspace.com/machinepop

> > The snare seems reasonbly okay although doesn't sound a lot like the 
> > classic Simmons snare I was expecting. I can't seem to get that sharp 
> > Kraftwerk-esque sound I want. Sounds more like a tom sound with resonance.
> 
> Have you got any noise whatsoever? Otherwise it might be this circuit. 
> Without noise it's suppose to sound resonant and strange.
> 

That's what I'm getting.  I've tried it with the "noise / tone" pot turned fully to "noise", and it sounds like the tone without any resonance.

> > Tom 2 is a little strange. The Decay pot doesn't seem to have any impact 
> > on the length of the sound being produced. It's constantly a short sharp 
> > sound. In fact this channel seems to produce sounds which sound far more 
> > like a kick drum than the bass channel does!
> 
> Sounds like it's just the decay pot or maybe the circuitry connected to it.
> 
> > And finally the output I get from the Headphone socket is a little 
> > noisy, compared to the individual outs and the stereo / mix outs on the 
> > back of the box.
> 
> As I recall this is a factory flaw. Others might be able to confirm this...
> 

Ah, a "feature"!

> I'm no wiz but I'd start with the decay pot. If that gets solved you get 
> energy to attack the next issue. :)
> 

Okay, so remembering I'm a total newbie, what advice do you have in terms of replacing the components?  I seem to remember that Simmons built their machines using pretty common components (apart from the Curtis chips I guess).  Do you guys go anywhere in particular for replacement parts?  I like the idea of fixing this myself if I can...

Are there any schematics available for this model that I can refer to?

> Otherwise we have a few skilled techs here on the list. If it cannot be 
> solved via the list it might be worth having it serviced.

.... but yes I'm also willing to send this to somebody who knows what they are doing!

> Good luck!

Thanks, I hope I don't need too much of it...

Aaron

Aaron Thomas skrev:
>  > I'm no wiz but I'd start with the decay pot. If that gets solved you get
>  > energy to attack the next issue. :)
>  >
> Okay, so remembering I'm a total newbie, what advice do you have in 
> terms of replacing the components? I seem to remember that Simmons built 
> their machines using pretty common components (apart from the Curtis 
> chips I guess). Do you guys go anywhere in particular for replacement 
> parts? I like the idea of fixing this myself if I can...
> 
> Are there any schematics available for this model that I can refer to?
> 
>  > Otherwise we have a few skilled techs here on the list. If it cannot be
>  > solved via the list it might be worth having it serviced.
> 
> .... but yes I'm also willing to send this to somebody who knows what 
> they are doing!

By mentioning the decay pot I meant checking that something happens 
resistance-wise while turning it. If it doesn't, it's the pot. If it 
does, it's the circuit.

-- 
electronically yours, jesper

- -- --- ---- ----- ---- --- -- -
www.electronic-obsession.se
www.myspace.com/machinepop

> By mentioning the decay pot I meant checking that something happens 
> resistance-wise while turning it. If it doesn't, it's the pot. If it 
> does, it's the circuit.


It doesn't feel loose.  I'd say it's the circuit!

I'm pretty sure I'm getting no noise at all on any of the channels.  Is it a single noise source which feeds all 4 channels?  Again possibly a problem with the circuit in question?

I need to get the case off and check for loose connections.  Problem of course is the holiday is over and I'm back at work.  Where did all my spare time go?!

Aaron

Aaron Thomas skrev:
>  > By mentioning the decay pot I meant checking that something happens
>  > resistance-wise while turning it. If it doesn't, it's the pot. If it
>  > does, it's the circuit.
> 
> It doesn't feel loose. I'd say it's the circuit!

Maybe, but I meant measuring the value with an Ohm-meter.

> I'm pretty sure I'm getting no noise at all on any of the channels. Is 
> it a single noise source which feeds all 4 channels? Again possibly a 
> problem with the circuit in question?

Yes, and yes.

> I need to get the case off and check for loose connections. Problem of 
> course is the holiday is over and I'm back at work. Where did all my 
> spare time go?!

Welcome to the club with members with _that_ problem.

-- 
electronically yours, jesper

- -- --- ---- ----- ---- --- -- -
www.electronic-obsession.se
www.myspace.com/machinepop