Vintage Simmons Drums (UK) Users Group

I already posted this half a day ago, but somehow this Yahoo system
seems to feel like Friday. However...

The purists should close their eyes in order to avoid blindness:

http://195.37.239.143/sdsvmesh/pic1.jpg
http://195.37.239.143/sdsvmesh/pic2.jpg
http://195.37.239.143/sdsvmesh/pic3.jpg

Thanks to Michael for sharing his experience with home made mesh head
pads.

This baby is only the first pad of a whole kit coming up soon

Have a nice weekend

superwolle70 skrev:
> 
> 
> I already posted this half a day ago, but somehow this Yahoo system
> seems to feel like Friday. However...
> 
> The purists should close their eyes in order to avoid blindness:

*argh!* I shouldn't have looked - now I'm bliiiiiind! ;)

No, seriously, I can see the benefit in getting more feel and still 
keeping a good look...

-- 
electronically yours, jesper
- -- --- ---- ----- ---- --- -- -
www.electronic-obsession.se
www.myspace.com/machinepop
- -- --- ---- ----- ---- --- -- -

for your reassurance:  I didn't damage any original part, so the pad
can be built back to it's original state at any time. The riot shield
surface is replaced by a cheap white platic layer

--- In Simmons_Drums@...m, jesper <jesper@...> wrote:

>
> superwolle70 skrev:
> > 
> > 
> > I already posted this half a day ago, but somehow this Yahoo system
> > seems to feel like Friday. However...
> > 
> > The purists should close their eyes in order to avoid blindness:
> 
> *argh!* I shouldn't have looked - now I'm bliiiiiind! ;)
> 
> No, seriously, I can see the benefit in getting more feel and still 
> keeping a good look...
> 
> -- 
> electronically yours, jesper
> - -- --- ---- ----- ---- --- -- -
> www.electronic-obsession.se
> www.myspace.com/machinepop
> - -- --- ---- ----- ---- --- -- -
>

PPS: I really like the feel of the hard SDSV pads, but my little kids
hate Daddy drumming on a table top after 7pm

--- In Simmons_Drums@yahoogroups.com, jesper <jesper@...> wrote:

>
> superwolle70 skrev:
> > 
> > 
> > I already posted this half a day ago, but somehow this Yahoo system
> > seems to feel like Friday. However...
> > 
> > The purists should close their eyes in order to avoid blindness:
> 
> *argh!* I shouldn't have looked - now I'm bliiiiiind! ;)
> 
> No, seriously, I can see the benefit in getting more feel and still 
> keeping a good look...
> 
> -- 
> electronically yours, jesper
> - -- --- ---- ----- ---- --- -- -
> www.electronic-obsession.se
> www.myspace.com/machinepop
> - -- --- ---- ----- ---- --- -- -
>

*sigh of relief* ;)

-- 
electronically yours, jesper
- -- --- ---- ----- ---- --- -- -
www.electronic-obsession.se
www.myspace.com/machinepop
- -- --- ---- ----- ---- --- -- -


superwolle70 skrev:

> 
> 
> for your reassurance: I didn't damage any original part, so the pad
> can be built back to it's original state at any time. The riot shield
> surface is replaced by a cheap white platic layer
> 
> --- In Simmons_Drums@yahoogroups.com 
> <mailto:Simmons_Drums%40yahoogroups.com>, jesper <jesper@...> wrote:
>  >
>  > superwolle70 skrev:
>  > >
>  > >
>  > > I already posted this half a day ago, but somehow this Yahoo system
>  > > seems to feel like Friday. However...
>  > >
>  > > The purists should close their eyes in order to avoid blindness:
>  >
>  > *argh!* I shouldn't have looked - now I'm bliiiiiind! ;)
>  >
>  > No, seriously, I can see the benefit in getting more feel and still
>  > keeping a good look...
>  >
>  > --
>  > electronically yours, jesper

superwolle70 skrev:
> 
> 
> PPS: I really like the feel of the hard SDSV pads, but my little kids
> hate Daddy drumming on a table top after 7pm

Good thing there are alternatives such as SDS-III's and IV's ;)

My kids love my sds-8 pads BTW, especially my 2 year old.

-- 
electronically yours, jesper
- -- --- ---- ----- ---- --- -- -
www.electronic-obsession.se
www.myspace.com/machinepop
- -- --- ---- ----- ---- --- -- -

I'ts always been a wonder to me that other drummers complained about the SDSV pads being uncomfortable considering they are hitting things equally as hard ( cymbals, cowbells, rims, woodblocks, Ice bells, etc. etc. etc. ). Buddy Rich used to play his hardware as part of his solos ! I guess I understand if it's in the case of a snare, but that's about it. Then the opposite was invented by Roland ( i.e. Tennis rackets ). I personally think the feel of the tennis racket pads are worse, but their module sounds have always been awesome. MHO
 - Roland 
PS - The Tama Techstars or Spacemuffin pads are probably the best if you need the exact feel of an acoustic since that's pretty much what they are !! ( again, MHO ).

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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

rolandbrenner@... skrev:
> PS - The Tama Techstars or Spacemuffin pads are probably the best if you 
> need the exact feel of an acoustic since that's pretty much what they 
> are !! ( again, MHO ).

Agree... but they're also easier to beat the crap out of, leaving a 
surface that isn't as intended IMHO. I think the worst e-pad I've tested 
in the vintage domain is the UP with their bulging surface. odd indeed! 
Also, the Dynacords are also weird when hit hard. No bounce and just 
"sloppy" in general. But what do I know, I'm no drummer so I should shut 
up now... ;)

-- 
electronically yours, jesper
- -- --- ---- ----- ---- --- -- -
www.electronic-obsession.se
www.myspace.com/machinepop
- -- --- ---- ----- ---- --- -- -

CHEESE & RICE!!! ( Sorry, it's a WI thing.. ) What the hell are you hittin' those thangs with ??? 
- Roland

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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

mmmhh

I used professionally each pads you're mentionning ...

I think it all depends how you're drumming ...
if you're playing with wrists, fingers , with a personnal technique or  
the most advanced one.

But the fact is that when you're hitting a drumhead, you're putting it  
in vibration...
When you're hitting a hard surface as the old pads, the vibration is  
coming back to your wrists...& actually your tendons...
So, following your health state, your tendons are (more or less)  
managing it or... are damaged...

Playing the hardware for some effects or playing about between 2 or 5  
hours some pads isn't the same at all ...
even cymbals are absorbing the vibration...

When you know that extremely good drummers (like Phil Gould "L42's  
drummer),
  with a very good stick, grip & motion  technique did really suffered  
of SDS7 pads, & still feel the injury today...

Personnaly I feel very uncomfortable with pads exept ddrums & mesheads  
ones that are not exceptionnal but OK & secure for tendons...
even techstar were a very hard touch despiting the drumhead, I  
personnaly hated them...better than Simmons, but infact less worse...
I used them as snare for 5hours gigs...it was terrible...after 60 gigs  
I had to stop drumming for a while & getting treated for the startng  
injuries...
SDSV 's pads weren't usable at all on stage because of the noise &for  
that reason ...
I did used them at some points in loud sound contexts & in a very  
limited use in the show ...& that was nearly OK...

the fact is that in the 80's some drummers had to play only on Simmons  
pads in some gigs ...
even when you love that sound, there are some humans limits ...

I know only Bill bruford who didn't complain about them ...but he had  
a very personnal way to hit the drums...


My personal conclusion was that the ddrum pads set with mesheads are  
the best dynamic range I tryed yet...
even on SImmons modules ...
I fucking love the magic shape of Simmons but bloody hate this  
terrible touch which probably helped Simmons to decline & not being  
accepted by a lot of drummers then...
But that's only my perception & my experience...

hope that contributes to the debate,  ;- )

peace !

Patrice.





Le 29 mars 08 à 21:51, rolandbrenner@... a écrit :

> I'ts always been a wonder to me that other drummers complained about  
> the SDSV pads being uncomfortable considering they are hitting  
> things equally as hard ( cymbals, cowbells, rims, woodblocks, Ice  
> bells, etc. etc. etc. ). Buddy Rich used to play his hardware as  
> part of his solos ! I guess I understand if it's in the case of a  
> snare, but that's about it. Then the opposite was invented by Roland  
> ( i.e. Tennis rackets ). I personally think the feel of the tennis  
> racket pads are worse, but their module sounds have always been  
> awesome. MHO
> - Roland
> PS - The Tama Techstars or Spacemuffin pads are probably the best if  
> you need the exact feel of an acoustic since that's pretty much what  
> they are !! ( again, MHO ).
>
> __________________________________________________________
> Click here to become a professional counselor in less time than you  
> think.
> http://thirdpartyoffers.netzero.net/TGL2211/fc/Ioyw6ijnep4eKTzP12sbcTLJqPCJf6LSbbsIBbzPrhXBs8QXT2sUf4/
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
> 



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Well, no intention on "debating" but rather sharing knowledge.
There are WAY too many factors in anyone having the right to say what is right and what is wrong. It's all up to the individual player and the style and music he or she plays and more importantly, what the person feels most comfortable playing live or otherwise.
Where I live, there is a person who makes "rotationally balanced" drumsticks. The whole theory behind them is to reduce stresses within the intricate structure of the hands and bones. Let  me research this briefly, and I will post a link.
The only debate I would have is the issue on comparing the hard pads to cymbals, rims, cowbells, ice bells, etc... Unless it's tiny splashes, they really do not have much more "give" than the SDSV pads, and I personally use springs. The bell of a cymbal or whacking a rim shot or china has to have the same impact if not more ( too close to make the call ). I would however, not recommend using a SDSV pad for a snare. Even for me, that could be uncomfortable over time.
On the other topic, Phil Gould: One of the most unrecognized drummers that I am familiar with. He seems to have a certain ambidextrous style that I haven't personally seen in anyone since. Makes me want to retire my drums into coffee tables every time I see him play !!! Fellow drummers RUN, don't walk and pick up Level 42's "Live at Wembley" concert video to see probably one of the hottest rhythm sections ever.
Peace,
- Roland

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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Le 30 mars 08 à 01:31, rolandbrenner@... a écrit :

> Well, no intention on "debating" but rather sharing knowledge.
>


;- )
>
> There are WAY too many factors in anyone having the right to say  
> what is right and what is wrong. It's all up to the individual  
> player and the style and music he or she plays and more importantly,  
> what the person feels most comfortable playing live or otherwise.
>





> Yeap !
>

>
> Where I live, there is a person who makes "rotationally balanced"  
> drumsticks. The whole theory behind them is to reduce stresses  
> within the intricate structure of the hands and bones. Let me  
> research this briefly, and I will post a link.
>
>





Interesting !

>
> The only debate I would have is the issue on comparing the hard pads  
> to cymbals, rims, cowbells, ice bells, etc... Unless it's tiny  
> splashes, they really do not have much more "give" than the SDSV  
> pads, and I personally use springs. The bell of a cymbal or whacking  
> a rim shot or china has to have the same impact if not more ( too  
> close to make the call ).
>







of course but they are absorbing the energy by vibrating ...
the sdsv pas is sending you back this energy in the tendons...


> I would however, not recommend using a SDSV pad for a snare. Even  
> for me, that could be uncomfortable over time.
> On the other topic, Phil Gould: One of the most unrecognized  
> drummers that I am familiar with. He seems to have a certain  
> ambidextrous style that I haven't personally seen in anyone since.  
> Makes me want to retire my drums into coffee tables every time I see  
> him play !!! Fellow drummers RUN, don't walk and pick up Level 42's  
> "Live at Wembley" concert video to see probably one of the hottest  
> rhythm sections ever.
>









I love the way he plays. & this tight energy ...
I spoke to him on his blog, where he told me about these "injuries"  
from the Simmons era.
I thought its pads where just used as extras, I didn't imagine they  
could hurt him.
But on the Live at Wembley , (of course I'm fan too) we can see him  
attacking pads like it would be some normal drumheads...
That's where it's hurting quite badly I guess...
  It's so hard to modulate your hit in such a gig...even for a guy  
like him with the finest technique...

anyway that's how it is, we won't redo the history...but if I could,  
the hexagons would have some mesheads ...or whatever...
But I guess they are so nice these "V's" pads ...
;- )



> Peace,
> - Roland
>
> __________________________________________________________
> Be a professional. Click here to earn a psychology degree.
> http://thirdpartyoffers.netzero.net/TGL2211/fc/Ioyw6ijnep4eJTBgOC345rJI6F4KMDTmqJTKTwslSx2ZFEjkhHG95I/
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
> 



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

"tennis racket", that's a cool comparism! I have the vision of
organizing an ATP "Simmons Open" competition.
My next idea (I am in a pad building experimenation period right
now...) is to equip my Jazz Bass with finger pads. I know this idea is
not new and based on the fact there there was just a Dynacord rythm
stick on ebay. If I post this to the "Fender Jazz Bass" newsgroup, I
expect a more controverse and bloody discussion than I triggered here.
This might be worth the effort...
However, thanks for this discussion. I am looking forward playing
original SDSV pads from 10am to 7pm and the mesh head pimped SDSV pads
from 7pm to 10am to spare my little kids some chinese torture. I never
understood whenever somebody selling Simmons gear on ebay added the
sentence "no more fight with the neighbours". At least the bassdrums
(I am talking about each and every generation of Simmons bassdrums and
I have them all) are much too loud


--- In Simmons_Drums@...m, "rolandbrenner@..."
<rolandbrenner@...> wrote:
>
> I'ts always been a wonder to me that other drummers complained about
the SDSV pads being uncomfortable considering they are hitting things
equally as hard ( cymbals, cowbells, rims, woodblocks, Ice bells, etc.
etc. etc. ). Buddy Rich used to play his hardware as part of his solos
! I guess I understand if it's in the case of a snare, but that's
about it. Then the opposite was invented by Roland ( i.e. Tennis
rackets ). I personally think the feel of the tennis racket pads are
worse, but their module sounds have always been awesome. MHO
>  - Roland 
> PS - The Tama Techstars or Spacemuffin pads are probably the best if
you need the exact feel of an acoustic since that's pretty much what
they are !! ( again, MHO ).
> 
> _____________________________________________________________
> Click here to become a professional counselor in less time than you
think.
>
http://thirdpartyoffers.netzero.net/TGL2211/fc/Ioyw6ijnep4eKTzP12sbcTLJqPCJf6LSbbsIBbzPrhXBs8QXT2sUf4/

> 
> 
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

superwolle70 skrev:
> 
> I never
> understood whenever somebody selling Simmons gear on ebay added the
> sentence "no more fight with the neighbours". At least the bassdrums
> (I am talking about each and every generation of Simmons bassdrums and
> I have them all) are much too loud

I couldn't agree more, the bass drum is annoying indeed and demands a 
raise in volume so the sound of the module drowns the sound of the club 
hitting the pad.

Well, I'm still thinking about an all SDS-3/4 set with an additional 
bass solution. Preferably built in a similar fashion. It'll match the 
wooden end cheeks of some synths splendidly. :D

-- 
electronically yours, jesper
- -- --- ---- ----- ---- --- -- -
www.electronic-obsession.se
www.myspace.com/machinepop
- -- --- ---- ----- ---- --- -- -

The newer Simmons pads that came with the later models have some give built 
in to them that absorbs enough energy for me that I don't have a problem 
playing them with regular sticks.  But the older pads (in my case SDS8 and 
SDS7) are very hard on my hands and wrists after playing for awhile.  Many 
years ago, I found a pair of drumsticks made out of some kind of semi-clear 
plastic (they don't have any company name on them) that flex just a bit.  I 
find these to be much easier on my hands and wrists and I don't have any 
trigger problems with them.  Although, I don't like using them on real 
cymbals.

Another solution is using cushions that slide over the tip of a regular 
drumstick.  The ones I have look like they are made from surgical tubing. 
They make it very comfortable to play the older pads.  However, you do lose 
some trigger sensitivity.  If the music you are playing doesn't require any 
subtle touches, then these cushions work great.

Another good point ! I've always wanted to try a set of these drumsticks. Seems like many older drummers use them. - Roland
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Hi vince ,

thanks for sharing your experience with us ...

Yep I tryed that sort of both sticks you're mentioning ...
The first one (sort of carbon ones) could break badly on cymbals, but  
they were reducing impact of SDX pads & older Simmons pads...
The rubber cushions (?) over the stick tip (Pro mark maybe... ) did  
make  them a little more bouncier but still ...
the stick wood was too hard I suppose...
I didn't get very satisfied with these both type of sticks ... I would  
say "Less worse "...

even the hexaheads Simmonsare not for me, (I don't like much Remo  
practice pads ...)...
even Ddrums with regular remo skins are blocked  by the foam under the  
skin so it's absorbing a part of the vibration but not really ...
Like the tama ones Roland mentioned earlier...

but all these pads with Mesheads are much better !
I could say there is twice much triggering dynamic..

The thing is , it's not easy to find some 11' Mesheads for the  
Hexaheads pads ...
I never saw any ...  :- (((

Patrice.




Le 30 mars 08 à 18:19, VinceL a écrit :

> The newer Simmons pads that came with the later models have some  
> give built
> in to them that absorbs enough energy for me that I don't have a  
> problem
> playing them with regular sticks. But the older pads (in my case  
> SDS8 and
> SDS7) are very hard on my hands and wrists after playing for awhile.  
> Many
> years ago, I found a pair of drumsticks made out of some kind of  
> semi-clear
> plastic (they don't have any company name on them) that flex just a  
> bit. I
> find these to be much easier on my hands and wrists and I don't have  
> any
> trigger problems with them. Although, I don't like using them on real
> cymbals.
>
> Another solution is using cushions that slide over the tip of a  
> regular
> drumstick. The ones I have look like they are made from surgical  
> tubing.
> They make it very comfortable to play the older pads. However, you  
> do lose
> some trigger sensitivity. If the music you are playing doesn't  
> require any
> subtle touches, then these cushions work great.
>
>
> 



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

11 inch meshheads???
http://www.edrums.info/5.htm
perhaps this gets you started

greetz Berk

Very interesting

thanks Berk !

Patrice.


Le 31 mars 08 à 20:22, Berk Aarts a écrit :

> 11 inch meshheads???
> http://www.edrums.info/5.htm
> perhaps this gets you started
>
> greetz Berk
>
>
>
>
>
>
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>
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>
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>
>