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Re: DIGI-TRIX --- good grief ----

2002-09-24 by John Papiewski

...Anybody care to comment on the usefulness of being able to fan 16 outputs
to one input, without any individual attenuation?

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>
> Perhaps mistakenly , this post was sent to the Serge group as I
> expect it to be a forum for the intelligent & the experimenter . I'm
> often surprised at the lo ratio of such debate on line & thus rarely
> comment.
> regards
> sonicsynthi
>

Ow! You nailed it! We're all UNINTELLIGENT here!!
Damn... I thought it wasn't so obvious.......

Just cuz the debate's not panning in your favor doesn't mean it's not taking
place.

Re: DIGI-TRIX --- good grief ----

2002-09-24 by Tim Curtis

I don't know John -

It sounds to me like he's really trying to hype his product. Can't really fault him for that.

HOWEVER...

To Begin with, this guy should learn to use his Caps Key...

But furthermore, Bill was right - he doesn't really get it. It's a cute idea, but really nothing either revolutionary or all that useful.

I'm willing to bet that plenty of people here have had experience with matrix systems similar to this one. (Judging from the desciption) Sounds to me like this guy just recently discovered them or something and thinks that no one else ever has.

Oh well, best of luck to him. Just preferrably on a more "hype-driven" forum.

Tim

John Papiewski wrote:

Show quoted textHide quoted text

...Anybody care to comment on the usefulness of being able to fan 16 outputs
to one input, without any individual attenuation?

>
> Perhaps mistakenly , this post was sent to the Serge group as I
> expect it to be a forum for the intelligent & the experimenter . I'm
> often surprised at the lo ratio of such debate on line & thus rarely
> comment.
> regards
> sonicsynthi
>

Ow! You nailed it! We're all UNINTELLIGENT here!!
Damn... I thought it wasn't so obvious.......

Just cuz the debate's not panning in your favor doesn't mean it's not taking
place.

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Re: DIGI-TRIX --- good grief ----

2002-09-24 by Ben Vehorn

FWIW, "that guy" has probably laid his hands on more EMS equipment than any of us will see in our lifetimes and probably has more matrix patching experience as well. Not trying to take sides, but I think he does know what he's talking about.
See: Spacemen 3
Spectrum
Experimental Audio Research

---Ben V

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on 9/23/02 9:39 PM, Tim Curtis at sexsymbol@... wrote:

Sounds to me like this guy just recently discovered them or something and thinks that no one else ever has.

Tim

Re: DIGI-TRIX --- good grief ----

2002-09-24 by John Papiewski

That's all well and good. Getting back to the nub of it though ... is
it useful to have a non-variable unity mixer to cpmbine several outputs
into an input?
Bananas have fan-out covered, but not fan-in. If I want to combine
several outputs to an input I use a mixer....
Serge outputs are usually fixed, not variable, and usually I need to
adjust different input amounts to achieve a result, or to open up
experimentation.
A multiple is NOT a mixer but rather a fan-out tool for patching methods
that don't stack.

The Synthi matrix system does add the outputs going across into a
vertical input column, right? As in delivering the arithmetic sum of
the outputs? Or does it do something else?

My exposure to the matrix stuff is very limited, but I remember there
being some inherent inaccuracies associated with the matrix patching..
crosstalk etc... which makes for interesting chaos/noise patches if
that's what you're after but limits other uses of the system.

In other words, if the matrix system was so hot then why didn't anybody
else use it?
Didn't the ARP2500 also suffer from flaky patching problems?

JP

Ben Vehorn wrote:

Show quoted textHide quoted text

> FWIW, "that guy" has probably laid his hands on more EMS equipment
> than any of us will see in our lifetimes and probably has more matrix
> patching experience as well. Not trying to take sides, but I think he
> does know what he's talking about.
> See: Spacemen 3
> Spectrum
> Experimental Audio Research
>

Re: DIGI-TRIX --- good grief ----

2002-09-24 by Tim Curtis

Ben Vehorn wrote:

FWIW, "that guy" has probably laid his hands on more EMS equipment than any of us will see in our lifetimes and probably has more matrix patching experience as well. Not trying to take sides, but I think he does know what he's talking about.
See: Spacemen 3
Spectrum
Experimental Audio Research

---Ben V
Sure Ben, easily may be that the guy is knowledgeable. (I'm not familiar with the three things that you referenced, so I'd be interested to know more)

Still, I take exception to his implications that the people on this list, people that I consider to be among the most knowledgeable in many cases, are unintelligent. I'm put off by his rudeness. I also don't agree that this thing would be as beneficial as he claims to the majority of users.

There's a level of decorum that should be adhered to as a manufacturer - one of the first rules would be "Don't insult your potential customer base, either directly or indirectly."

I stand by my previous comments.

Tim

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on 9/23/02 9:39 PM, Tim Curtis at sexsymbol@... wrote:

Sounds to me like this guy just recently discovered them or something and thinks that no one else ever has.

Tim

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Fanning?

2002-09-24 by Ken Stone

Well, in the tech world, fanning is applied to one output going to
many inputs. The opposite is called .... mixing! (and a few other
things as well). Serge had prgrammable patches back in his original
designs anyway. The triple bi-directional switch and the 4 stage
programmer were designed to allow rapid changing of patches.

I was recently reading Mark Vail's description of the first
programmable synths, which were somewhat lacking in their ability,
simply because all they did was memorize the routing, and not any of
the CVs. As such, this matrix would only be a partial sollution at
best. I have been doing a lot of thinking on the very subject over the
last few weeks, and I do plan to put a 12x10 pin matrix in my
sequencer/programmer panel. All that it can achieve is to allow
quicker patching of "sequences" (i.e. which programmer stage is
triggered by which seq output - remember my serge is ancient). With
the over 80 jacks per panel a Serge usually has, a 16 x 16 would
really be too limited for anything but handling "live performance"
patches, where it would actually prove to have a significant benefit.

My AU$0.04 worth (approx US$0.02)

Ken

Show quoted textHide quoted text

--- In SergeModular@y..., John Papiewski <johnp299792@a...> wrote:
> ...Anybody care to comment on the usefulness of being able to fan 16
outputs
> to one input, without any individual attenuation?

Re: DIGI-TRIX --- good grief ----

2002-09-25 by sonicsynthi

--- In SergeModular@y..., John Papiewski <johnp299792@a...> wrote:

Show quoted textHide quoted text

> ...Anybody care to comment on the usefulness of being able to fan

16 outputs

> to one input, without any individual attenuation?
>
>
> >
> > Perhaps mistakenly , this post was sent to the Serge group as

> > expect it to be a forum for the intelligent & the experimenter .

I'm

> > often surprised at the lo ratio of such debate on line & thus

rarely

> > comment.
> > regards
> > sonicsynthi
> >
>
> Ow! You nailed it! We're all UNINTELLIGENT here!!
> Damn... I thought it wasn't so obvious.......

>
> Just cuz the debate's not panning in your favor doesn't mean it's

not taking

> place.

the comments meriting that response need no pointing out .
I'm afraid the guilty often feel necessary to reveal themselves
regardless .
\Do you think any forum of debate is about "going your way " ?
there is debate , and there is intelligent debate . the internet
is too often the repository of the unthinking.imvho.

Re: Fanning?

2002-09-25 by sonicsynthi

--- In SergeModular@y..., "Ken Stone" <sasami@h...> wrote:

Show quoted textHide quoted text

> Well, in the tech world, fanning is applied to one output going to
> many inputs. The opposite is called .... mixing! (and a few other
> things as well).

thanks ken . can we thus say a multiple is a
mixer (albeit sans attentuation?

> last few weeks, and I do plan to put a 12x10 pin matrix in my
> sequencer/programmer panel. All that it can achieve is to allow
> quicker patching of "sequences" (i.e. which programmer stage is
> triggered by which seq output - remember my serge is ancient). With
> the over 80 jacks per panel a Serge usually has, a 16 x 16 would
> really be too limited for anything but handling "live performance"
> patches, where it would actually prove to have a significant

benefit.

indeed sir , you're right - or setting up a pre-determined
matrix for intensive cross-modulations . Merzbow need apply.
. If we can offer larger matrices cheap -its a coming - we shall .
course there are a zillion synths where 16 ins /outs is plenty.
I like the sound of your programmer/sequencer . will you use pins?

>
> My AU$0.04 worth (approx US$0.02)
>
> Ken
>
> --- In SergeModular@y..., John Papiewski <johnp299792@a...> wrote:
> > ...Anybody care to comment on the usefulness of being able to fan

> outputs
> > to one input, without any individual attenuation?

Re: Fanning?

2002-09-25 by Ken Stone

> thanks ken . can we thus say a multiple is a
> mixer (albeit sans attentuation?

The output isolation/protection resistors of the individual modules
would help in mixing multiple outputs connected without attenuation
(i.e shorting outputs together via a matrix etc). you just have to
hope the manufacturer used them on all outputs!

> > last few weeks, and I do plan to put a 12x10 pin matrix in my
> > sequencer/programmer panel.
> I like the sound of your programmer/sequencer . will you use pins?

Certainly. The pins I have a shorting pins, unlike the EMS ones, so
it makes my matrixes a little less practical for other purposes.

Ken