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Another take on small pots in MOTM format

Another take on small pots in MOTM format

2009-12-19 by Richard Brewster

I uploaded a couple of FPD files that I designed today.  The idea was 
instigated by a fantasy I had about building a CGS-only synthesizer, 
optimizing for panel space.  I wanted to use the 5U by 1U MOTM panel 
size for compatibility with my cabinets.  I thought about using small 
jacks like Blacet, but quickly realized that the panel space hog in MOTM 
format is the large knobs, and that I could still use 1/4 inch jacks.  I 
started playing around with some small diameter Alpha pots and 
discovered that they fit in a matrix of 1-inch vertical separation by 
7/8-inch horizontal separation (the same spacing as the jacks on a MOTM 
panel).  This meant that the pots can line up directly above the jacks.  
The only thing sacrificed is tick marks.  The same small Alco knob used 
in the Tellun and Encore panels fits here.  Comparing the Tellun 
staggered pot spacing, I realized that it seems the main reason for 
staggering is to accommodate tick marks.  Giving up tick marks allows a 
1U MOTM panel to fit a combination of 6 pots and 8 jacks, or 8 pots and 
6 jacks, with room for a couple of switches or LEDs in between.   Using 
this format, I was able to pack a CGS 21 Super Psycho Modulation Source 
into a 1U panel.  It has 8 pots, 7 toggle switches and 1 jack.  (Looks a 
little tight at the bottom, but should work.)  It's similar to the photo 
on the CGS site, but omitting two switches and the LEDs.  LEDs might be 
squeezed in, too, but I'm not a really big fan of LEDs.  I never built a 
Super Psycho Modulation source, because of all the panel real estate 
required in regular MOTM format.

As a second example, I put a CGS 38 and CGS 52 both into 1U using this 
template.  I made some others as well, such as a dual CGS 64 VCA and the 
CGS 77 Serge VCF.

The jack placement in most of these designs can take the 3-Jack bracket 
from Bridechamber for mounting the PC boards.  I haven't figured out yet 
how to mount the CGS 21 PC board on the panel with one jack.

Richard Brewster
http://pugix.com

Sitting here under two feet of snow in central Virginia, USA.

Another take on small pots in MOTM format

2009-12-20 by Andrew Listmayer

Welcome to the dark side of the MOTM force. I dub thee Darth Pugix. I would Imagine that the 3/4" alco knobs would be mighty tight squeeze on that grid, though. I moved down to 1/2" knobs and they are able to fit on a slightly tighter 7/8 x 7/8 grid with tick marks. I've also been experimenting with different jack placements so I can squeeze them closer toghether as seen on my 2U doomsday machine with 20 jacks and 18 pots.

http://www.tellun.com/motm/diy/tln712/ALpanel.jpg

Unlike you, I have an LED fetish, but also have a rule that they can't take up any space where a pot or jack could go and I've managed to squeeze in a couple hundred across the face of my 24x25u synth.

Re: [ModularSynthPanels] Another take on small pots in MOTM format

2009-12-20 by Richard Brewster

Andrew, your 2U Doomsday Machine panel is chock full!  You've taken the 
idea of panel density to the max.  Jacks can certainly be closer 
together than MOTM.  A 7/8-inch vertical jack spacing makes for a square 
jacks grid like Modcan B. What type of pots did you use?  Those look 
like Blacet knobs.

I tested with knobs taken off the Encore UEG, which uses a 7/8-inch 
vertical spacing between pots.  The pot grid on the experimental panels 
is 1-inch vertical spacing and 7/8-inch horizontal,  the same as the 
standard MOTM jack spacing.  The knobs fit fine and there is enough 
vertical clearance between them to place a standard label.  I put the 
labels above the pots and placed the top row as close as possible to the 
top of the panel while leaving room for the pot behind and the label in 
front.  I am not sure if there is room for eight 1-inch spaced positions 
bottom to top; the top pot seems to come too close and there isn't much 
room for a label above.  Labels could be moved below.  I'm going to 
experiment more by making a mock panel of cardboard and checking the fit.

And you are making me re-think the idea of a 7/8-inch square grid all 
the way!  But there is still the advantage with 1-inch vertical spacing 
that a Bridechamber 3-jack bracket can be used.  In fact, this is what I 
think will work to mount the CGS Super Psycho Modulation Source PC board.

And that begs the question:  How did you mount PC boards to your 
Doomsday Machine panel?

Richard

Andrew Listmayer wrote:
Show quoted textHide quoted text
>
>
> Welcome to the dark side of the MOTM force. I dub thee Darth Pugix. I 
> would Imagine that the 3/4" alco knobs would be mighty tight squeeze 
> on that grid, though. I moved down to 1/2" knobs and they are able to 
> fit on a slightly tighter 7/8 x 7/8 grid with tick marks. I've also 
> been experimenting with different jack placements so I can squeeze 
> them closer toghether as seen on my 2U doomsday machine with 20 jacks 
> and 18 pots.
>
> http://www.tellun.com/motm/diy/tln712/ALpanel.jpg
>
> Unlike you, I have an LED fetish, but also have a rule that they can't 
> take up any space where a pot or jack could go and I've managed to 
> squeeze in a couple hundred across the face of my 24x25u synth.
>
>
>

Re: [ModularSynthPanels] Another take on small pots in MOTM format

2009-12-20 by Scott Deyo

You two and sick and must be stopped. Hubris! Heresy!
; )

Scott Deyo
The Bridechamber
Jealous Edison Record Kompany




On Dec 20, 2009, at 11:14 AM, Richard Brewster wrote:

Andrew, your 2U Doomsday Machine panel is chock full! You've taken the
idea of panel density to the max. Jacks can certainly be closer
together than MOTM. A 7/8-inch vertical jack spacing makes for a square
jacks grid like Modcan B. What type of pots did you use? Those look
like Blacet knobs.

I tested with knobs taken off the Encore UEG, which uses a 7/8-inch
vertical spacing between pots. The pot grid on the experimental panels
is 1-inch vertical spacing and 7/8-inch horizontal, the same as the
standard MOTM jack spacing. The knobs fit fine and there is enough
vertical clearance between them to place a standard label. I put the
labels above the pots and placed the top row as close as possible to the
top of the panel while leaving room for the pot behind and the label in
front. I am not sure if there is room for eight 1-inch spaced positions
bottom to top; the top pot seems to come too close and there isn't much
room for a label above. Labels could be moved below. I'm going to
experiment more by making a mock panel of cardboard and checking the fit.

And you are making me re-think the idea of a 7/8-inch square grid all
the way! But there is still the advantage with 1-inch vertical spacing
that a Bridechamber 3-jack bracket can be used. In fact, this is what I
think will work to mount the CGS Super Psycho Modulation Source PC board.

And that begs the question: How did you mount PC boards to your
Doomsday Machine panel?

Richard

Andrew Listmayer wrote:
>
>;
> Welcome to the dark side of the MOTM force. I dub thee Darth Pugix. I
> would Imagine that the 3/4" alco knobs would be mighty tight squeeze
> on that grid, though. I moved down to 1/2" knobs and they are able to
> fit on a slightly tighter 7/8 x 7/8 grid with tick marks. I've also
> been experimenting with different jack placements so I can squeeze
> them closer toghether as seen on my 2U doomsday machine with 20 jacks
> and 18 pots.
>
> http://www.tellun.com/motm/diy/tln712/ALpanel.jpg
>
> Unlike you, I have an LED fetish, but also have a rule that they can't
> take up any space where a pot or jack could go and I've managed to
> squeeze in a couple hundred across the face of my 24x25u synth.
>
>
>


Re: [ModularSynthPanels] Another take on small pots in MOTM format

2009-12-21 by Andrew Listmayer

The pots I use are Song Huei(sp?) which are from Taiwan and Identical to alphas except they are cheaper and feel slightly better to me and indeed those are the same knobs as Blacet uses.

As for mounting the PCB's I made my own bracket out of really thin sheet metal from Home Depot. It goes under the rightmost row of jack/pots and sicks out from the panel just far enough to clear the jacks, where it attaches to the PCBs

http://www.muffwiggler.com/forum/userpix/188_IMG_9346_1.jpg

The colored jacks are courtesy of Rustoleum :)

And Scott, If you don't like it, you'd better stop selling me all these parts/PCBs/jacks without panels ;)
Show quoted textHide quoted text
On Sun, Dec 20, 2009 at 1:23 PM, Scott Deyo <contact@...> wrote:

You two and sick and must be stopped. Hubris! Heresy!

; )

Scott Deyo
The Bridechamber
Jealous Edison Record Kompany




On Dec 20, 2009, at 11:14 AM, Richard Brewster wrote:

Andrew, your 2U Doomsday Machine panel is chock full! You've taken the
idea of panel density to the max. Jacks can certainly be closer
together than MOTM. A 7/8-inch vertical jack spacing makes for a square
jacks grid like Modcan B. What type of pots did you use? Those look
like Blacet knobs.

I tested with knobs taken off the Encore UEG, which uses a 7/8-inch
vertical spacing between pots. The pot grid on the experimental panels
is 1-inch vertical spacing and 7/8-inch horizontal, the same as the
standard MOTM jack spacing. The knobs fit fine and there is enough
vertical clearance between them to place a standard label. I put the
labels above the pots and placed the top row as close as possible to the
top of the panel while leaving room for the pot behind and the label in
front. I am not sure if there is room for eight 1-inch spaced positions
bottom to top; the top pot seems to come too close and there isn't much
room for a label above. Labels could be moved below. I'm going to
experiment more by making a mock panel of cardboard and checking the fit.

And you are making me re-think the idea of a 7/8-inch square grid all
the way! But there is still the advantage with 1-inch vertical spacing
that a Bridechamber 3-jack bracket can be used. In fact, this is what I
think will work to mount the CGS Super Psycho Modulation Source PC board.

And that begs the question: How did you mount PC boards to your
Doomsday Machine panel?

Richard

Andrew Listmayer wrote:
>
>
> Welcome to the dark side of the MOTM force. I dub thee Darth Pugix. I
> would Imagine that the 3/4" alco knobs would be mighty tight squeeze
> on that grid, though. I moved down to 1/2" knobs and they are able to
> fit on a slightly tighter 7/8 x 7/8 grid with tick marks. I've also
> been experimenting with different jack placements so I can squeeze
> them closer toghether as seen on my 2U doomsday machine with 20 jacks
> and 18 pots.
>
> http://www.tellun.com/motm/diy/tln712/ALpanel.jpg
>
> Unlike you, I have an LED fetish, but also have a rule that they can't
> take up any space where a pot or jack could go and I've managed to
> squeeze in a couple hundred across the face of my 24x25u synth.
>
>
>



Re: Another take on small pots in MOTM format

2009-12-21 by poppaneedsanap

for me, half the point of me getting into 5U format and away from Euro was the appeal of large uncramped modules..
to each his own though..

I do like the idea of an all CGS synth though!
-L

--- In ModularSynthPanels@yahoogroups.com, Richard Brewster <pugix@...> wrote:
Show quoted textHide quoted text
>
> I uploaded a couple of FPD files that I designed today.  The idea was 
> instigated by a fantasy I had about building a CGS-only synthesizer, 
> optimizing for panel space.  I wanted to use the 5U by 1U MOTM panel 
> size for compatibility with my cabinets.  I thought about using small 
> jacks like Blacet, but quickly realized that the panel space hog in MOTM 
> format is the large knobs, and that I could still use 1/4 inch jacks.  I 
> started playing around with some small diameter Alpha pots and 
> discovered that they fit in a matrix of 1-inch vertical separation by 
> 7/8-inch horizontal separation (the same spacing as the jacks on a MOTM 
> panel).  This meant that the pots can line up directly above the jacks.  
> The only thing sacrificed is tick marks.  The same small Alco knob used 
> in the Tellun and Encore panels fits here.  Comparing the Tellun 
> staggered pot spacing, I realized that it seems the main reason for 
> staggering is to accommodate tick marks.  Giving up tick marks allows a 
> 1U MOTM panel to fit a combination of 6 pots and 8 jacks, or 8 pots and 
> 6 jacks, with room for a couple of switches or LEDs in between.   Using 
> this format, I was able to pack a CGS 21 Super Psycho Modulation Source 
> into a 1U panel.  It has 8 pots, 7 toggle switches and 1 jack.  (Looks a 
> little tight at the bottom, but should work.)  It's similar to the photo 
> on the CGS site, but omitting two switches and the LEDs.  LEDs might be 
> squeezed in, too, but I'm not a really big fan of LEDs.  I never built a 
> Super Psycho Modulation source, because of all the panel real estate 
> required in regular MOTM format.
> 
> As a second example, I put a CGS 38 and CGS 52 both into 1U using this 
> template.  I made some others as well, such as a dual CGS 64 VCA and the 
> CGS 77 Serge VCF.
> 
> The jack placement in most of these designs can take the 3-Jack bracket 
> from Bridechamber for mounting the PC boards.  I haven't figured out yet 
> how to mount the CGS 21 PC board on the panel with one jack.
> 
> Richard Brewster
> http://pugix.com
> 
> Sitting here under two feet of snow in central Virginia, USA.
>

Re: [ModularSynthPanels] Re: Another take on small pots in MOTM format

2009-12-22 by Richard Brewster

The panel designs I'm working on won't be that cramped.  They'll have 
the same jack size and spacing as MOTM.  The space savings will come 
from using smaller knobs.

I measured the vertical distance from the top mounting hole to the 
center of the first pot on the Encore UEG.  Assuming I use a similarly 
small diameter pot, it turns out that I can fit eight rows of panel 
parts, spaced 1-inch apart, in the 5U high panel.  The horizontal 
spacing is 7/8-inch.  In other words it is the MOTM jack grid extended 
all the way to the top.  I realized today that I can fit two CGS Slope 
Detector modules into a 1U panel with this approach.

Richard



poppaneedsanap wrote:
Show quoted textHide quoted text
> for me, half the point of me getting into 5U format and away from Euro was the appeal of large uncramped modules..
> to each his own though..
>
> I do like the idea of an all CGS synth though!
> -L
>
> --- In ModularSynthPanels@yahoogroups.com, Richard Brewster <pugix@...> wrote:
>   
>> I uploaded a couple of FPD files that I designed today.  The idea was 
>> instigated by a fantasy I had about building a CGS-only synthesizer, 
>> optimizing for panel space.  I wanted to use the 5U by 1U MOTM panel 
>> size for compatibility with my cabinets.  I thought about using small 
>> jacks like Blacet, but quickly realized that the panel space hog in MOTM 
>> format is the large knobs, and that I could still use 1/4 inch jacks.  I 
>> started playing around with some small diameter Alpha pots and 
>> discovered that they fit in a matrix of 1-inch vertical separation by 
>> 7/8-inch horizontal separation (the same spacing as the jacks on a MOTM 
>> panel).  This meant that the pots can line up directly above the jacks.  
>> The only thing sacrificed is tick marks.  The same small Alco knob used 
>> in the Tellun and Encore panels fits here.  Comparing the Tellun 
>> staggered pot spacing, I realized that it seems the main reason for 
>> staggering is to accommodate tick marks.  Giving up tick marks allows a 
>> 1U MOTM panel to fit a combination of 6 pots and 8 jacks, or 8 pots and 
>> 6 jacks, with room for a couple of switches or LEDs in between.   Using 
>> this format, I was able to pack a CGS 21 Super Psycho Modulation Source 
>> into a 1U panel.  It has 8 pots, 7 toggle switches and 1 jack.  (Looks a 
>> little tight at the bottom, but should work.)  It's similar to the photo 
>> on the CGS site, but omitting two switches and the LEDs.  LEDs might be 
>> squeezed in, too, but I'm not a really big fan of LEDs.  I never built a 
>> Super Psycho Modulation source, because of all the panel real estate 
>> required in regular MOTM format.
>>
>> As a second example, I put a CGS 38 and CGS 52 both into 1U using this 
>> template.  I made some others as well, such as a dual CGS 64 VCA and the 
>> CGS 77 Serge VCF.
>>
>> The jack placement in most of these designs can take the 3-Jack bracket 
>> from Bridechamber for mounting the PC boards.  I haven't figured out yet 
>> how to mount the CGS 21 PC board on the panel with one jack.
>>
>> Richard Brewster
>> http://pugix.com
>>
>> Sitting here under two feet of snow in central Virginia, USA.
>>
>>     
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>

Re: [ModularSynthPanels] Re: Another take on small pots in MOTM format

2009-12-22 by Andrew Listmayer

I see where you are coming from and that is one of the main reasons I chose MOTM format myself. However, as my PCB backlog grew and grew to nearly 100 modules, I realized something had to get cramped. Either my modules or my house. It all depends on how many modules you have and how large you want your system to be. I just want my system to be within arms reach and I really don't want to have to take a walk just to patch 2 modules together ;)
Show quoted textHide quoted text
On Mon, Dec 21, 2009 at 5:48 PM, poppaneedsanap <whitey@...> wrote:

for me, half the point of me getting into 5U format and away from Euro was the appeal of large uncramped modules..
to each his own though..

I do like the idea of an all CGS synth though!
-L



--- In ModularSynthPanels@yahoogroups.com, Richard Brewster wrote:
>
> I uploaded a couple of FPD files that I designed today. The idea was
> instigated by a fantasy I had about building a CGS-only synthesizer,
> optimizing for panel space. I wanted to use the 5U by 1U MOTM panel
> size for compatibility with my cabinets. I thought about using small
> jacks like Blacet, but quickly realized that the panel space hog in MOTM
> format is the large knobs, and that I could still use 1/4 inch jacks. I
> started playing around with some small diameter Alpha pots and
> discovered that they fit in a matrix of 1-inch vertical separation by
> 7/8-inch horizontal separation (the same spacing as the jacks on a MOTM
> panel). This meant that the pots can line up directly above the jacks.
> The only thing sacrificed is tick marks. The same small Alco knob used
> in the Tellun and Encore panels fits here. Comparing the Tellun
> staggered pot spacing, I realized that it seems the main reason for
> staggering is to accommodate tick marks. Giving up tick marks allows a
> 1U MOTM panel to fit a combination of 6 pots and 8 jacks, or 8 pots and
> 6 jacks, with room for a couple of switches or LEDs in between. Using
> this format, I was able to pack a CGS 21 Super Psycho Modulation Source
> into a 1U panel. It has 8 pots, 7 toggle switches and 1 jack. (Looks a
> little tight at the bottom, but should work.) It9;s similar to the photo
> on the CGS site, but omitting two switches and the LEDs. LEDs might be
> squeezed in, too, but I'm not a really big fan of LEDs. I never built a
> Super Psycho Modulation source, because of all the panel real estate
> required in regular MOTM format.
>
> As a second example, I put a CGS 38 and CGS 52 both into 1U using this
> template. I made some others as well, such as a dual CGS 64 VCA and the
> CGS 77 Serge VCF.
>
> The jack placement in most of these designs can take the 3-Jack bracket
> from Bridechamber for mounting the PC boards. I haven9;t figured out yet
> how to mount the CGS 21 PC board on the panel with one jack.
>
> Richard Brewster
> http://pugix.com
>
> Sitting here under two feet of snow in central Virginia, USA.
>


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