Re: [ModularSynthPanels] LPG's
2008-12-19 by thomas white

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2008-12-19 by thomas white
> Scott,Thomas White
>
> Let's say hypothetically...
2008-12-19 by T3h caTmaN
> http://www.modulars ynthesis. com/cvs/cvs. htmThomas White
>
> Scott Deyo
> The Bridechamber
> contact@bridechambe r.com
> http://www.bridecha mber.com
> Jealous Edison Record Kompany
> http://www.jealouse dison.com
>
>
> On Dec 14, 2008, at 12:55 AM, T3h caTmaN wrote:
>
> > i'll second that request... LPG pcb's???
> >
> > also, what's the CVS??? <smile_confused. gif>
> >
> > Darren
> >
> >
> > To: ModularSynthPanels@ yahoogroups. com
> > From: wonggster@gmail. com
> > Date: Sun, 14 Dec 2008 00:00:51 +0000
> > Subject: [ModularSynthPanels ] Re: Klee panels?
> >
> > That is good news.
> >
> > Who has LPG pcbs ? Since BC is doing panels
> somebody must be doing
> > pcbs. Anyone who
> > knows please tell me.
> >
> > >
> > > Klees are still coming, by the way, but it's
> looking like January.
> > > That will also have the MFOS Seq, CVS, LPGs,
> Ian's TZVCO, etc.
> > > Just needed to get some money to initiate the
> order of big metal.
> > Sorry
> > > for the delay!
> > >
> > > Scott Deyo
> > > The Bridechamber
> > > contact@...
> > > http://www.bridecha mber.com
> > > Jealous Edison Record Kompany
> > > http://www.jealouse dison.com
> > >
> > >
> > > On Oct 18, 2008, at 7:32 AM, Ben Stuyts wrote:
> > >
> > > > Hi,
> > > >
> > > > I got a couple of Klee pcb's in (great!), and
> now I'm looking for
> > a
> > > > front panel.
> > > >
> > > > What's the status on Klee front panels? I've
> been looking through
> > the
> > > > message archives, but couldn't find anything
> definite. There's
> > been
> > > > some talk about sliders vs knobs, a pcb for
> mounting the sliders,
> > > > maybe a Bridechamber panel, some fpd
> designs...
> > > >
> > > > A Bridechamber panel would be grand. :-)
> Scott?
> > > >
> > > > Kind regards,
> > > > Ben
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> > Messenger wants to send you on a trip. Enter
> today.
> >
> >
> >
2008-12-19 by Suit & Tie Guy
interpreted from this. Only Don's approval will makethis "potentially" happen. Thanks!
2008-12-19 by John Mahoney
>On Dec 19, 2008, at 2:34 AM, thomas white wrote:Good point. It's my understanding (which could easily be wrong) that
>>interpreted from this. Only Don's approval will make
>>this "potentially" happen. Thanks!
>
>why are you concerned with Don's approval?
2008-12-19 by kwote uno
2008-12-19 by thomas white
> On Dec 19, 2008, at 2:34 AM, thomas white wrote:Thomas White
> > interpreted from this. Only Don's approval will
> make
> > this "potentially" happen. Thanks!
>
> why are you concerned with Don's approval?
> ---
> Suit & Tie Guy
> suitandtieguy.com
> stgsoundlabs.com
>
>
2008-12-19 by krisp
Well said Thomas
I back you and your ethics, being courteous and polite in this day and age is sometimes that is seen as a weakness when it shows strong character and morals
I hope Don agrees to the second run as this is a fantastic filter
Cheers
Paul Darlow
----- Original Message -----From: thomas whiteSent: Friday, December 19, 2008 7:28 PMSubject: Re: [ModularSynthPanels] LPG'sThis question explains why Don Buchla, synth pioneer
and legendary inventor of circuits, was quite suprised
for me to ask for his blessing. It's just what I
consider "right" to do. Otherwise I'd have an EMS
Synthi clone coming, a JH library of PCB circuits
(like...cough. .. Doepfer) and more. This community is
grass roots. Don still makes the modules. Maybe I
should be making my own MOTM-300 VCO since the circuit
is "not patented?" Never...
In the end, I am no designer or inventor. Only by
basing my designs on other people am I able to make a
circuit available in the first place. Sure I am a
half-whit circuit bender and can follow instructions
in the many circuit books I have read in the past. But
I have no true invention to call my Own. While Don's
LPG is not patented it is still his design.
Thanks for the question though. If my own grassroot
PCB does not get approval per my request for a 2nd
run, there are already many other options... from:
Plan-B
Cyndustries
Doepfer
Make Noise
Wiard
etc.
Thanks for listening.
Thomas
--- Suit & Tie Guy <erwill@suitandtiegu y.com> wrote:
> On Dec 19, 2008, at 2:34 AM, thomas white wrote:
> > interpreted from this. Only Don's approval will
> make
> > this "potentially" happen. Thanks!
>
> why are you concerned with Don's approval?
> ---
> Suit & Tie Guy
> suitandtieguy. com
> stgsoundlabs. com
>
>
Thomas White
Natural Rhythm
www.naturalrhythmmu sic.com
2008-12-19 by David Vandenberg
2008-12-19 by data2action
>
> This question explains why Don Buchla, synth pioneer
> and legendary inventor of circuits, was quite suprised
> for me to ask for his blessing. It's just what I
> consider "right" to do. Otherwise I'd have an EMS
> Synthi clone coming, a JH library of PCB circuits
> (like...cough... Doepfer) and more. This community is
> grass roots. Don still makes the modules. Maybe I
> should be making my own MOTM-300 VCO since the circuit
> is "not patented?" Never...
>
> In the end, I am no designer or inventor. Only by
> basing my designs on other people am I able to make a
> circuit available in the first place. Sure I am a
> half-whit circuit bender and can follow instructions
> in the many circuit books I have read in the past. But
> I have no true invention to call my Own. While Don's
> LPG is not patented it is still his design.
>
> Thanks for the question though. If my own grassroot
> PCB does not get approval per my request for a 2nd
> run, there are already many other options... from:
>
> Plan-B
> Cyndustries
> Doepfer
> Make Noise
> Wiard
>
> etc.
>
> Thanks for listening.
>
> Thomas
>
> --- Suit & Tie Guy <erwill@...> wrote:
>
> > On Dec 19, 2008, at 2:34 AM, thomas white wrote:
> > > interpreted from this. Only Don's approval will
> > make
> > > this "potentially" happen. Thanks!
> >
> > why are you concerned with Don's approval?
> > ---
> > Suit & Tie Guy
> > suitandtieguy.com
> > stgsoundlabs.com
> >
> >
>
>
> Thomas White
> Natural Rhythm
> www.naturalrhythmmusic.com
>
2008-12-19 by sduck409
>
> Am I missing something here?
> This is a second run of boards, did you get permission from Don for
> the first run? if so, why would you need permission for a second run
> of the same board?
> On another note, the basic idea and design was Don's, you have
> modified the design and added other aspects to the circuit, so it is
> no longer his design, but yours. 90% of the designs in DIY (and in
> production synth modules) are based on something else, whether it is
> someone else's circuit, a modification of the app notes for the IC, or
> a circuit out of the old Electronotes, it doesn't matter, if you make
> any changes to it, it is now your design, most of my designs are based
> around the chip manufacturers app notes, or a circuit I found in
> Electronotes, so according to your logic I should be asking the chip
> manufacturers for their permission before I get any boards done up, or
> I should spend years trying to track down the guy who submitted the
> circuit to Electronotes 30 years ago, sometimes this "Intellectual
> Property" can be pushed a bit to far.
> If you want to make a direct clone of a specific module
> (panels,circuit,pcb) then yes, you should get the original designers
> permission, otherwise I see no reason for it.
>
> My 2 cents worth,
> Dave
>
2008-12-20 by thomas white
> Am I missing something here?Thomas White
> This is a second run of boards, did you get
> permission from Don for
> the first run? if so, why would you need permission
> for a second run
> of the same board?
> On another note, the basic idea and design was
> Don's, you have
> modified the design and added other aspects to the
> circuit, so it is
> no longer his design, but yours. 90% of the designs
> in DIY (and in
> production synth modules) are based on something
> else, whether it is
> someone else's circuit, a modification of the app
> notes for the IC, or
> a circuit out of the old Electronotes, it doesn't
> matter, if you make
> any changes to it, it is now your design, most of my
> designs are based
> around the chip manufacturers app notes, or a
> circuit I found in
> Electronotes, so according to your logic I should be
> asking the chip
> manufacturers for their permission before I get any
> boards done up, or
> I should spend years trying to track down the guy
> who submitted the
> circuit to Electronotes 30 years ago, sometimes this
> "Intellectual
> Property" can be pushed a bit to far.
> If you want to make a direct clone of a specific
> module
> (panels,circuit,pcb) then yes, you should get the
> original designers
> permission, otherwise I see no reason for it.
>
> My 2 cents worth,
> Dave
>
>
2008-12-20 by mathroutine
> hope to partner with Bridechamber for futureThat is why I think it was so popular. Prior to this run, if you had a
> distribution along with his convenient offering of
> MOTM-format panels since no one has previously made a
> LPG in that format. All my best,
>
> Thomas
2008-12-20 by Richard Brewster
>> hope to partner with Bridechamber for future
>> distribution along with his convenient offering of
>> MOTM-format panels since no one has previously made a
>> LPG in that format. All my best,
>>
>> Thomas
>>
>
> That is why I think it was so popular. Prior to this run, if you had a
> system in 5u format, your only option was Cynthia. And judging by
> people's posted experiences one could expect a 2 year + (or greater)
> lead time, which is not tenable to most.
>
>
2008-12-20 by Suit & Tie Guy
2008-12-20 by adaaxs
>
> Couple of thoughts...
>
> Don is still in this business and still sells 292
> Lopass Gates (quad version). This is not my design,
> even with the mods. I added something to Peter to
> something from Paul to make a "compilation" PCB of
> sorts.
>
> Honestly, I never thought the project would get the
> desire that people have shown due to the many other
> versions on the market. My boards are sold for
> extremely cheap compared to others out there so maybe
> that had something to do with it. The project was
> posted on Electro Music for months before a 2-week
> order period began. I regret to have missed people,
> but keep in mind my request of Don involved a single
> run and not one that would compete with Euro format
> directly out of respect for Peter Grenader, Doepfer,
> Wiard, etc
>
> If Don says go for it I'll advertise here, on AH and
> on synth_diy this time and not on Electro-Music to try
> and hit others that missed the limited first run. In
> the end, I am not in this as a business. I made boards
> that filled my immediate need and shared with others.
> One does not have any idea how much time it takes to
> make boards, take orders, and ship them around the
> world until you try it... that is the foundation for
> any hesitation to really do this, and part of why I
> hope to partner with Bridechamber for future
> distribution along with his convenient offering of
> MOTM-format panels since no one has previously made a
> LPG in that format. All my best,
>
> Thomas
> --- David Vandenberg <dragonslair@...> wrote:
>
> > Am I missing something here?
> > This is a second run of boards, did you get
> > permission from Don for
> > the first run? if so, why would you need permission
> > for a second run
> > of the same board?
> > On another note, the basic idea and design was
> > Don's, you have
> > modified the design and added other aspects to the
> > circuit, so it is
> > no longer his design, but yours. 90% of the designs
> > in DIY (and in
> > production synth modules) are based on something
> > else, whether it is
> > someone else's circuit, a modification of the app
> > notes for the IC, or
> > a circuit out of the old Electronotes, it doesn't
> > matter, if you make
> > any changes to it, it is now your design, most of my
> > designs are based
> > around the chip manufacturers app notes, or a
> > circuit I found in
> > Electronotes, so according to your logic I should be
> > asking the chip
> > manufacturers for their permission before I get any
> > boards done up, or
> > I should spend years trying to track down the guy
> > who submitted the
> > circuit to Electronotes 30 years ago, sometimes this
> > "Intellectual
> > Property" can be pushed a bit to far.
> > If you want to make a direct clone of a specific
> > module
> > (panels,circuit,pcb) then yes, you should get the
> > original designers
> > permission, otherwise I see no reason for it.
> >
> > My 2 cents worth,
> > Dave
> >
> >
>
>
> Thomas White
> Natural Rhythm
> www.naturalrhythmmusic.com
>
2008-12-20 by thomas white
> if there is a second run of boards i would beg forThomas White
> tin/lead finish
> and 2 oz copper process. i'd totally buy another
> four and use those
> instead.
> ---
> Suit & Tie Guy
> suitandtieguy.com
> stgsoundlabs.com
>
>
2008-12-21 by Cynthia
>Please don't believe everything you read...
> > hope to partner with Bridechamber for future
> > distribution along with his convenient offering of
> > MOTM-format panels since no one has previously made a
> > LPG in that format. All my best,
> >
> > Thomas
>
> That is why I think it was so popular. Prior to this run, if you had a
> system in 5u format, your only option was Cynthia. And judging by
> people's posted experiences one could expect a 2 year + (or greater)
> lead time, which is not tenable to most.
2008-12-21 by Suit & Tie Guy
2oz copper - does if make any electrical difference insound? Does it last longer?it makes not a significant difference in sound or longetivity that i'm aware of.however i makes a huge impact on the reworkability. i've been using 2 oz copper process for 2.5 years now and have only lifted a trace once through rework. fyi: that module never shipped.the supplier i work with charges only a few pennies extra per board for 2 oz process. they are speedypcb.com, and are a broker for a chinese firm from the shipping cost and packing list that comes with the boards.tin/lead finish - Have you had a problem with the RoHScompliant finish before?the problem is twofold. first i'm assuming some of the difficulty i'm having in soldering this comfortably has to do with the low trace weight. another is the lead-free finish. the other issue i have stuffing this PCB is the extremely small solder pads. i'm really not sure what is the biggest issue is, but i'm interested. the low trace weight should make "taking" the solder easier, however it makes me nervous to work with because i worry about damaging the board while soldering.i'm using a Weller WES51 with a ETH tip at 750 degrees farenheit. i moved to this tip because of the smallish pads on an early PCB which were corrected, and it's still large enough to make me freak out about how long it takes for this board to flow solder ... i worry about damaging the soldermask when i'm working with this board. i'm also open to criticism of my solder technique. i could just be a Mr Complainey Pants as i seem to be the only person whining.
2008-12-21 by krisp
I have noticed that most of the boards with the white/silver finish are very easy to tarnish and then not so easy to solder
I dont think its all RoHS boards just the white/silver finish ones
I have a few boards that have become very difficult to get solder to flow properly and have resorted to a quick rub with some fine emery cloth gets it going again
I worry about the longevity of these boards and like to get them soldered ASAP
The boards from Oakley, JH and Bridechamber solder no problem and I believe they are all RoHS compliant
So I would vote for a different finish on the boards lead free HASL is quite good and solders more like normal lead boards with both RoHS and lead solder
----- Original Message -----From: Suit & Tie GuySent: Sunday, December 21, 2008 11:04 AMSubject: Re: [ModularSynthPanels] Re: LPG's
On Dec 20, 2008, at 3:39 PM, thomas white wrote:2oz copper - does if make any electrical difference insound? Does it last longer?it makes not a significant difference in sound or longetivity that i'm aware of.however i makes a huge impact on the reworkability. i've been using 2 oz copper process for 2.5 years now and have only lifted a trace once through rework. fyi: that module never shipped.the supplier i work with charges only a few pennies extra per board for 2 oz process. they are speedypcb.com, and are a broker for a chinese firm from the shipping cost and packing list that comes with the boards.
tin/lead finish - Have you had a problem with the RoHScompliant finish before?the problem is twofold. first i'm assuming some of the difficulty i'm having in soldering this comfortably has to do with the low trace weight. another is the lead-free finish. the other issue i have stuffing this PCB is the extremely small solder pads. i'm really not sure what is the biggest issue is, but i'm interested. the low trace weight should make "taking" the solder easier, however it makes me nervous to work with because i worry about damaging the board while soldering.i'm using a Weller WES51 with a ETH tip at 750 degrees farenheit. i moved to this tip because of the smallish pads on an early PCB which were corrected, and it's still large enough to make me freak out about how long it takes for this board to flow solder ... i worry about damaging the soldermask when i'm working with this board. i'm also open to criticism of my solder technique. i could just be a Mr Complainey Pants as i seem to be the only person whining.---Suit & Tie Guysuitandtieguy. comstgsoundlabs. com
2008-12-21 by mathroutine
> about how long it takes for this board to flow solder ... i worryI had trouble with some of the joints on the lpg boards too, and the
> about damaging the soldermask when i'm working with this board. i'm
> also open to criticism of my solder technique. i could just be a Mr
> Complainey Pants as i seem to be the only person whining.
> ---
> Suit & Tie Guy
2008-12-21 by sduck409
--- In ModularSynthPanels@yahoogroups.com, Suit & Tie Guy <erwill@...> wrote:
>
> On Dec 20, 2008, at 3:39 PM, thomas white wrote:
> > 2oz copper - does if make any electrical difference in
> > sound? Does it last longer?
>
> it makes not a significant difference in sound or longetivity that
> i'm aware of.
>
> however i makes a huge impact on the reworkability. i've been using 2
> oz copper process for 2.5 years now and have only lifted a trace once
> through rework. fyi: that module never shipped.
>
> the supplier i work with charges only a few pennies extra per board
> for 2 oz process. they are speedypcb.com, and are a broker for a
> chinese firm from the shipping cost and packing list that comes with
> the boards.
>
> > tin/lead finish - Have you had a problem with the RoHS
> > compliant finish before?
>
> the problem is twofold. first i'm assuming some of the difficulty i'm
> having in soldering this comfortably has to do with the low trace
> weight. another is the lead-free finish. the other issue i have
> stuffing this PCB is the extremely small solder pads. i'm really not
> sure what is the biggest issue is, but i'm interested. the low trace
> weight should make "taking" the solder easier, however it makes me
> nervous to work with because i worry about damaging the board while
> soldering.
>
> i'm using a Weller WES51 with a ETH tip at 750 degrees farenheit. i
> moved to this tip because of the smallish pads on an early PCB which
> were corrected, and it's still large enough to make me freak out
> about how long it takes for this board to flow solder ... i worry
> about damaging the soldermask when i'm working with this board. i'm
> also open to criticism of my solder technique. i could just be a Mr
> Complainey Pants as i seem to be the only person whining.
> ---
> Suit & Tie Guy
> suitandtieguy.com
> stgsoundlabs.com
>
2008-12-22 by thomas white
> --- In ModularSynthPanels@yahoogroups.com, Suit &Thomas White
> Tie Guy <erwill@...>
> wrote:
> > about how long it takes for this board to flow
> solder ... i worry
> > about damaging the soldermask when i'm working
> with this board. i'm
> > also open to criticism of my solder technique. i
> could just be a Mr
> > Complainey Pants as i seem to be the only person
> whining.
> > ---
> > Suit & Tie Guy
>
>
> I had trouble with some of the joints on the lpg
> boards too, and the
> oakley pcbs I did were hassle free.
>
>
2008-12-22 by mathroutine
> What solder type are you using? And was it problemHi Thomas,
> with flow or size of the joints you had to solder?
>
> The more specifics the better in case a new run
> happens.
>
> Thomas
>
2008-12-22 by Sam Ecoff
> we were chatting a bit on electromusic about this. I used both kester
> no clean, and water washable, and it was a problem with getting the
> solder to adhere to the pad.
2009-01-18 by David Ingebretsen
2009-01-18 by David Ingebretsen