Modular Synth Panels

Hi,

just to give you all an update on the DIY Wogglebug PCB's:

  I received 100 boards, and started shipping the already ordered ones  
(actually 10 orders).
so i still have around 90 boards available.

More information about the wogglebug (and order for the DIY PCB is  
here):

http://diy.czmok.de/mod/gbuy/woggle.html

Many thanks to Ryan for making the original PCB and for Grant Richter  
to put this in the
public domain :-)

Cheers

Jan

On 3/1/08, Jan-Ahrent Czmok put forth:
>More information about the wogglebug (and order for the DIY PCB is
>here):
>
>http://diy.czmok.de/mod/gbuy/woggle.html

Does Scott or anyone else produce an MOTM-format panel for this thing??

Also, I took a look at the schematic.  According to the above
website, this module uses 0 - 10V, and I wanted to see how easily it
could be adapted to the -5V/+5V that MOTM generally uses.  It looks
like all the op-amp outputs are wired as comparators (ie. with
positive feedback).  If that is a mistake, perhaps it should be
corrected.

Thanks :)

On 01.03.2008, at 17:01, Mark wrote:

> On 3/1/08, Jan-Ahrent Czmok put forth:
> >More information about the wogglebug (and order for the DIY PCB is
> >here):
> >
> >http://diy.czmok.de/mod/gbuy/woggle.html
>
> Does Scott or anyone else produce an MOTM-format panel for this  
> thing??
>
>
i'm currently working on a version for frontpanel express/schaeffer.
should be ready in about a week.

> Also, I took a look at the schematic. According to the above
> website, this module uses 0 - 10V, and I wanted to see how easily it
> could be adapted to the -5V/+5V that MOTM generally uses. It looks
> like all the op-amp outputs are wired as comparators (ie. with
> positive feedback). If that is a mistake, perhaps it should be
> corrected.
>
ryan williams did the original design based on the docs from grant  
richter,
i'm not able to do a "modification" based on my knowledge :-(

cheers

jan

> Also, I took a look at the schematic.  According to the above
> website, this module uses 0 - 10V, and I wanted to see how easily it
> could be adapted to the -5V/+5V that MOTM generally uses.  It looks
> like all the op-amp outputs are wired as comparators (ie. with
> positive feedback).  If that is a mistake, perhaps it should be
> corrected.

Orcad library op-amp symbols have the minus input on the bottom, and the positive input 
on the top, don't ask me why. Don't assume op-amp symbols are always drawn with the 
negative input on top, it has become conventional recently, but different schematic software 
may not follow that convention, and there are no regulatory bodies.

If I had mirrored the symbols vertically, then the positive power terminal would be on the 
bottom and negative power on the top, which is much more of a problem.

On 3/1/08, Grant Richter put forth:
>  > Also, I took a look at the schematic.  According to the above
>  > website, this module uses 0 - 10V, and I wanted to see how easily it
>  > could be adapted to the -5V/+5V that MOTM generally uses.  It looks
>  > like all the op-amp outputs are wired as comparators (ie. with
>  > positive feedback).  If that is a mistake, perhaps it should be
>  > corrected.
>
>Orcad library op-amp symbols have the minus input on the bottom, and
>the positive input  on the top, don't ask me why. Don't assume
>op-amp symbols are always drawn with the negative input on top, it
>has become conventional recently, but different schematic software
>may not follow that convention, and there are no regulatory bodies.

These are drawn according to that convention, with the negative input
on top.  It's labeled with a "-" and the number 2 (which is an
inverting input on a TL072).   The feedback goes from the output
(labeled 1, which is an output pin on a TL072), along the bottom, to
a an input labeled with a "+" and the number 3 (which is a
non-inverting input on a TL072).   So I don't think I'm assuming
anything in suggesting that if it isn't meant to be a comparator,
then perhaps the schematic should be corrected.

http://diy.czmok.de/mod/gbuy/wogglebug-schem.pdf

I'm no expert, but isn't that an inverting voltage follower, not a  
comparator? I thought comparators have either no feedback, or a tiny  
amount (hysteresis).

-Chris

On Mar 1, 2008, at 2:18 PM, Mark wrote:

> On 3/1/08, Grant Richter put forth:
> > > Also, I took a look at the schematic. According to the above
> > > website, this module uses 0 - 10V, and I wanted to see how  
> easily it
> > > could be adapted to the -5V/+5V that MOTM generally uses. It looks
> > > like all the op-amp outputs are wired as comparators (ie. with
> > > positive feedback). If that is a mistake, perhaps it should be
> > > corrected.
> >
> >Orcad library op-amp symbols have the minus input on the bottom, and
> >the positive input on the top, don't ask me why. Don't assume
> >op-amp symbols are always drawn with the negative input on top, it
> >has become conventional recently, but different schematic software
> >may not follow that convention, and there are no regulatory bodies.
>
> These are drawn according to that convention, with the negative input
> on top. It's labeled with a "-" and the number 2 (which is an
> inverting input on a TL072). The feedback goes from the output
> (labeled 1, which is an output pin on a TL072), along the bottom, to
> a an input labeled with a "+" and the number 3 (which is a
> non-inverting input on a TL072). So I don't think I'm assuming
> anything in suggesting that if it isn't meant to be a comparator,
> then perhaps the schematic should be corrected.
>
> http://diy.czmok.de/mod/gbuy/wogglebug-schem.pdf
>
>

> > Also, I took a look at the schematic.  According to the above
> > website, this module uses 0 - 10V, and I wanted to see how easily it
> > could be adapted to the -5V/+5V that MOTM generally uses.

I do NOT have a Wogglebug #3 board to test this on. But a quick and non-binding guess 
would be:

To convert to 0-5 CV out and +/-5 V audio out. Do the following.

Removing R30 should change J1, J4 and J7 to 0-5 volts.

Place a 1uF non-polarized cap in series with J2, J5 and J6 (Mouser PT# 140-NPRL50V1.0-RC 
is an example) to produce +/- 5 V audio.

J3 can stay the same with less range than in a 0-10V system.

I'm planning on a panel, too.
I'll take a look at Jan's FPE file.
Are we wanting a double 'Bug (doppelbug?) w/ ring mod outputs? I 
forget...
Or shall we stick to singles, to make assembly easiest, and people can 
do external ring mod if they wish?

Cheers,
Scott Deyo
The Bridechamber
contact@...
www.bridechamber.com

On Mar 1, 2008, at 10:01 AM, Mark wrote:

> On 3/1/08, Jan-Ahrent Czmok put forth:
>  >More information about the wogglebug (and order for the DIY PCB is
>  >here):
>  >
>  >http://diy.czmok.de/mod/gbuy/woggle.html
>
>  Does Scott or anyone else produce an MOTM-format panel for this 
> thing??
>
>  Also, I took a look at the schematic. According to the above
>  website, this module uses 0 - 10V, and I wanted to see how easily it
>  could be adapted to the -5V/+5V that MOTM generally uses. It looks
>  like all the op-amp outputs are wired as comparators (ie. with
>  positive feedback). If that is a mistake, perhaps it should be
>  corrected.
>
>  Thanks :)
>  
>

>http://diy.czmok.de/mod/gbuy/wogglebug-schem.pdf

This is insane! I sure hope the PC board is NOT made from the above schematic, because 
that schematic is chock full of errors.

Has ANYONE successfully built one of these PC boards?

I'm looking to build a double bug, still not sure of the best way to 
implement the ring mod circuit though?

Julian 

--- In ModularSynthPanels@yahoogroups.com, Scott Deyo <contact@...> 
wrote:
>
> I'm planning on a panel, too.
> I'll take a look at Jan's FPE file.
> Are we wanting a double 'Bug (doppelbug?) w/ ring mod outputs? I 
> forget...
> Or shall we stick to singles, to make assembly easiest, and people 
can 
> do external ring mod if they wish?
> 
> Cheers,
> Scott Deyo
> The Bridechamber
> contact@...
> www.bridechamber.com
> 
> 
> On Mar 1, 2008, at 10:01 AM, Mark wrote:
> 
> > On 3/1/08, Jan-Ahrent Czmok put forth:
> >  >More information about the wogglebug (and order for the DIY 
PCB is
> >  >here):
> >  >
> >  >http://diy.czmok.de/mod/gbuy/woggle.html
> >
> >  Does Scott or anyone else produce an MOTM-format panel for this 
> > thing??
> >
> >  Also, I took a look at the schematic. According to the above
> >  website, this module uses 0 - 10V, and I wanted to see how 
easily it
> >  could be adapted to the -5V/+5V that MOTM generally uses. It 
looks

> >  like all the op-amp outputs are wired as comparators (ie. with
> >  positive feedback). If that is a mistake, perhaps it should be
> >  corrected.
> >
> >  Thanks :)
> >  
> >
>

There are a lot of people successfully woggling on electro-music so 
I would assume the PCBs are based on an updated schematic. (I have 
not got enough parts to build mine yet.)

Thanks again for releasing this idea into the wild.

Julian

--- In ModularSynthPanels@yahoogroups.com, "Grant Richter" 
<grichter@...> wrote:
>
> >http://diy.czmok.de/mod/gbuy/wogglebug-schem.pdf
> 
> This is insane! I sure hope the PC board is NOT made from the 
above schematic, because 

> that schematic is chock full of errors.
> 
> Has ANYONE successfully built one of these PC boards?
>

I received one of the boards from Jan this week.  (Thanks, Jan!)  I 
compared it with the schematic. The schematic incorrectly labels almost 
all of the pins on the three op amps, U5, U6, U7.  But the board is 
correct.  For example the three sections of U7 that buffer the tone 
outputs are indeed voltage followers.  Be careful when installing U7!  
It goes in the opposite direction from the other ICs. This orientation 
of U7 is correctly indicated on the silk screen.

All the outputs are in 0-10V range.  For the CV outputs: STEPPED, 
SMOOTH, WOGGLE, I think this is fine; the all-positive voltages are 
nicely suited for control purposes.  However, I prefer audio outputs to 
be centered about zero.  Capacitors in the range of 100nf to1uf placed 
in series with R37, R38, and R39 would do the trick for centering the 
tone and ring mod outputs.

I am a bit puzzled why the board designer used surface-mount pads for 
the bypass caps.  It looks as if there is plenty of room for 
plated-through holes in those locations.

Don't forget to read these notes by Ryan Williams:

http://diy.czmok.de/mod/gbuy/wogglebugparts.txt

You should add a 4.7nf cap to ground at the end of R35 that connects to 
the cluster pot, as described there.  I used a 1K for R35, as well.  
This makes the LF398 more stable when it is reading its own output 
(cluster pot wiper all the way over to R35).

Richard Brewster
http://www.pugix.com

Mark wrote:

> On 3/1/08, Grant Richter put forth:
>   
>>  > Also, I took a look at the schematic.  According to the above
>>  > website, this module uses 0 - 10V, and I wanted to see how easily it
>>  > could be adapted to the -5V/+5V that MOTM generally uses.  It looks
>>  > like all the op-amp outputs are wired as comparators (ie. with
>>  > positive feedback).  If that is a mistake, perhaps it should be
>>  > corrected.
>>
>> Orcad library op-amp symbols have the minus input on the bottom, and
>> the positive input  on the top, don't ask me why. Don't assume
>> op-amp symbols are always drawn with the negative input on top, it
>> has become conventional recently, but different schematic software
>> may not follow that convention, and there are no regulatory bodies.
>>     
>
> These are drawn according to that convention, with the negative input
> on top.  It's labeled with a "-" and the number 2 (which is an
> inverting input on a TL072).   The feedback goes from the output
> (labeled 1, which is an output pin on a TL072), along the bottom, to
> a an input labeled with a "+" and the number 3 (which is a
> non-inverting input on a TL072).   So I don't think I'm assuming
> anything in suggesting that if it isn't meant to be a comparator,
> then perhaps the schematic should be corrected.
>
> http://diy.czmok.de/mod/gbuy/wogglebug-schem.pdf
>
>

I'm thinking of getting one of the PCBs so I played around with a 2U 
MOTM style panel.  The design is in my folder:

Files > DJB designs > Wogglebug.fpd

I'm not sure of the exact control and output functionality. I tried 
to group some of the outputs and added a RATE LED.  I'd appreciate 
feedback on the outputs and controls if I got them right.

Dave

--- In ModularSynthPanels@yahoogroups.com, Jan-Ahrent Czmok <jan@...> 
wrote:

> Hi,
> Just to give you all an update on the DIY Wogglebug PCB's:
> I received 100 boards, and started shipping the already ordered
> ones (actually 10 orders) so I still have around 90 boards
> available. More information about the wogglebug (and order
> for the DIY PCB is here):
> http://diy.czmok.de/mod/gbuy/woggle.html
> 
> Cheers 
> Jan

On 3/1/08 12:05 PM, "Scott Deyo" <contact@...> wrote:

> Are we wanting a double 'Bug (doppelbug?) w/ ring mod outputs?

yes! please. planning on using the CGS real rings.

was about to build a CGS tube VCA but mysteriously after I bought the parts
and panel from Bridechamber, Ken was out....but now BC has full kits with
the PCB...hmmmmm?
-phil

I built two last weekend, but just got them working yesterday (had to
wait for replacement parts to be shipped).  No problems with the
circuitboard, just parts selection.  Seems that not all 4046's are
created equal... stay away from the 74HC4046 and go with the CD4046 -
maybe this could be included in the parts list... I had no prior
experience with this wacky chip and didn't think to check its power
requirements.  Other than this, no problems - I'm amazed I managed to
solder all those surface mount caps without shorting or smoking any.
Are they really required?

-gerald

On 3/1/08, Grant Richter <grichter@...> wrote:
>
> This is insane! I sure hope the PC board is NOT made from the above schematic, because
> that schematic is chock full of errors.
>
> Has ANYONE successfully built one of these PC boards?
>

On 3/1/08, Scott Deyo put forth:
>I'm planning on a panel, too.
>I'll take a look at Jan's FPE file.
>Are we wanting a double 'Bug (doppelbug?) w/ ring mod outputs? I forget...
>Or shall we stick to singles, to make assembly easiest, and people
>can do external ring mod if they wish?

I have no idea, since I'm on a Mac and cannot read FPE files.

Also, I think Stooge Moe drew up an MOTM panel for a wogglebug, bitd.
You might want to ask him about it.

More also, while I'm typing, are there any panels for an envelope
follower??  I'm looking for somethimng simple.  While I can use the
rectifier wavetable in my mini-wave, and run that output through an
MOTM-820, I would rather not tie up two awesome modules for such a
basic function.  I also added an env out to my modded time machine,
but it's not adjustable, and ties up the TM.

On 3/1/08, xamboldt put forth:
>I'm no expert, but isn't that an inverting voltage follower, not a
>comparator? I thought comparators have either no feedback, or a tiny
>amount (hysteresis).

An inverting voltage follower uses the inverting input and negative feedback.

While, afaik, an ideal op-amp without feedback or any noise at its
inputs should act like a comparator.  Since that situation does not
exist in reality, positive feedback is added.  If a resistor is
added, a voltage divider creates two threshold voltages, resulting in
hysteresis.

On 3/1/08, Grant Richter put forth:
>
>I do NOT have a Wogglebug #3 board to test this on. But a quick and
>non-binding guess would be:
>
>To convert to 0-5 CV out and +/-5 V audio out. Do the following.
>
>Removing R30 should change J1, J4 and J7 to 0-5 volts.
>
>Place a 1uF non-polarized cap in series with J2, J5 and J6 (Mouser
>PT# 140-NPRL50V1.0-RC
>is an example) to produce +/- 5 V audio.
>
>J3 can stay the same with less range than in a 0-10V system.

Thanks :)

I put a pdf image in the "Files > DJB designs > Wogglebug.fpd" folder.

Dave

--- In ModularSynthPanels@yahoogroups.com, Mark <yahoogroups@...> 
wrote:
> I have no idea, since I'm on a Mac and cannot read FPD files.

Has anyone done a 1U 19" width 1/4" mult panel?  I've got a 12 space 
rack with 2 rows of MOTM format and wanted to fill the other 2 spaces 
with 2 1U height mults.

If not, does anyone know how to do the oval slots found on most rack 
panels to allow for some play?

Thanks.

Dave M.

I uploaded a FPD file called standard-woggle.fpd in the Richard Brewster 
Designs folder.  This is how I might build it.  I did not include a 
CLOCK IN jack, because I don't think it's very useful.  The internal 
clock is rate-correlated with the low pass filter of the smooth 
section.  This correlation is essential to the smooth section.  Using an 
external clock doesn't add a lot to this version of the Wogglebug, 
because there is only one sample and hold.  The Wiard Wogglebug has two 
sample and holds per section, and the clock input is used for the second 
S&H, not the one correlated with the smooth function.

http://www.wiard.com/modular/Woggle/265block.jpg

My breadboarded Wogglebug is more or less based on that diagram.

http://www.pugix.com/wogglebug.htm

There are many variations a Wogglebug could be built.  The PC board 
we're talking about here is a simple version.  Simple is good!  I didn't 
put a clock LED on the panel design because it would take additional 
circuitry and because I already have too many blinkin' lights on my modular!

Richard Brewster
http://www.pugix.com

djbrow54 wrote:

> I'm thinking of getting one of the PCBs so I played around with a 2U 
> MOTM style panel.  The design is in my folder:
>
> Files > DJB designs > Wogglebug.fpd
>
> I'm not sure of the exact control and output functionality. I tried 
> to group some of the outputs and added a RATE LED.  I'd appreciate 
> feedback on the outputs and controls if I got them right.
>
> Dave
>

You can always buy the PCB from me for the same price as from Ken. I 
think I have a few -- I didn't buy that many, I swear!
: )

Cheers,
Scott Deyo
The Bridechamber
contact@...
www.bridechamber.com

On Mar 2, 2008, at 12:07 AM, p. hendricks wrote:

> On 3/1/08 12:05 PM, "Scott Deyo" <contact@...> wrote:
>
>  > Are we wanting a double 'Bug (doppelbug?) w/ ring mod outputs?
>
>  yes! please. planning on using the CGS real rings.
>
>  was about to build a CGS tube VCA but mysteriously after I bought the 
> parts
>  and panel from Bridechamber, Ken was out....but now BC has full kits 
> with
>  the PCB...hmmmmm?
>  -phil
>
>  
>

While they wouldn't be labeled like an MOTM-910 (even though I still
find the way the 910 is labeled rather confusing) you should be able
to find plenty of 1U or 2U panels with 3/8" holes in them.  Check
companies that make cables or rack equipment.

If you want a modular system for your modular, Mid Atlantic makes a
2U frame that can fit various sub-panels with cut outs for different
types of connectors, including 1/4" phone jacks.

http://www.middleatlantic.com/rackac/ucp/custom.htm


On 3/2/08, David Moylan put forth:

>Has anyone done a 1U 19" width 1/4" mult panel?  I've got a 12 space
>rack with 2 rows of MOTM format and wanted to fill the other 2 spaces
>with 2 1U height mults.
>
>If not, does anyone know how to do the oval slots found on most rack
>panels to allow for some play?

On 3/2/08, djbrow54 put forth:
>I put a pdf image in the "Files > DJB designs > Wogglebug.fpd" folder.

Thanks :)  It looks like things could be shuffled around to add an
extra knob in there, especially if it didn't have a clock input, as
Richard suggests.

Anyway, I hope that FPE releases an OS X or X11 version of their
software.  Not only can I not design or view fpd files without
running Windows, I can't even purchase a panel from an existing fpd,
without running Windows.

--- In ModularSynthPanels@yahoogroups.com, Mark <yahoogroups@...> wrote:
>
> On 3/2/08, djbrow54 put forth:
> >I put a pdf image in the "Files > DJB designs > Wogglebug.fpd" folder.
> 
> Thanks :)  It looks like things could be shuffled around to add an
> extra knob in there, especially if it didn't have a clock input, as
> Richard suggests.
> 
> Anyway, I hope that FPE releases an OS X or X11 version of their
> software.  Not only can I not design or view fpd files without
> running Windows, I can't even purchase a panel from an existing fpd,
> without running Windows.
>

FWIW, I fun FPD on a Macbook Pro running Parallels/Windows without
trouble.

mrmike

On 3/4/08, clickmrmike put forth:
>
>  > Anyway, I hope that FPE releases an OS X or X11 version of their
>>  software.  Not only can I not design or view fpd files without
>>  running Windows, I can't even purchase a panel from an existing fpd,
>  > without running Windows.
>
>FWIW, I fun FPD on a Macbook Pro running Parallels/Windows without
>trouble.

In order to do that I would have to buy an Intel Mac and a copy of Windows.