Homebrew_PCBs

I am trying to bake my first PCB, the thing is I don't know how to
protect copper surface. Some says " Sprayed with a thin coat of clear
lacquer" but my application requires high current(200A) flow and i
doubt that lacquer will do the job.

i have no idea what you are talking of.
what has the current to do with the protection?
the protection is for corrosion prevention.

or do you mean the etch resist (which protects the copper in the etchant)?

for that much current you nead thick coated clad and make broad traces.
what do you want to make?
if i would have to mke a 200A circuit i would try much to leave the high
current circuit off the pcb.
(wire it with suitable wires and only connect the control/sensing cables to
a control pcb)

it may be possible to reduce track with by soldering copper wire on top.
a possibility is sqare copper rods, but the soldering techniqe has to be
put care on.

in most high current circuits the components are not so well suited for pcb
mount and it may be even easier to wire it without a pcb.

so please be more specific what the problem is.

st

On Thu, 18 Sep 2003 07:11:42 -0000, sogilo <sogilo@...> wrote:

> I am trying to bake my first PCB, the thing is I don't know how to
> protect copper surface. Some says " Sprayed with a thin coat of clear
> lacquer" but my application requires high current(200A) flow and i
> doubt that lacquer will do the job.
>
>
>
> Be sure to visit the group home and check for new Bookmarks and files:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Homebrew_PCBs
>
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> Homebrew_PCBs-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>

"first PCB" and "200A" sounds a bit scary. What are you trying to
protect the copper from? Probably need a little more info on what
you are trying to do...

--- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, "sogilo" <sogilo@y...> wrote:
> I am trying to bake my first PCB, the thing is I don't know how to
> protect copper surface. Some says " Sprayed with a thin coat of
clear
> lacquer" but my application requires high current(200A) flow and i
> doubt that lacquer will do the job.

For the group to help, you might like to mention what it is you
want the copper protected from.

sogilo wrote:

> I am trying to bake my first PCB, the thing is I don't know how to
> protect copper surface. Some says " Sprayed with a thin coat of clear
> lacquer" but my application requires high current(200A) flow and i
> doubt that lacquer will do the job.
>
>
>
> Be sure to visit the group home and check for new Bookmarks and files:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Homebrew_PCBs
>
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> Homebrew_PCBs-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>

--- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, "sogilo" <sogilo@y...> wrote:

> I am trying to bake my first PCB, the thing is I don't know how to
> protect copper surface. Some says " Sprayed with a thin coat of

clear

> lacquer" but my application requires high current(200A) flow and i
> doubt that lacquer will do the job.

If I read your post correctly, 200 amps ?

I don't think the COPPER will do the job.

or, you got one heck of a trace there.

As far as protecting the copper, spray laquor is to keep it from
tarnishing.

if you want an all weather protector, be aware that the heat from a
200 amp trace may burn off most everything unless you are using some
pretty thick and wide traces.

Dave

--- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, "sogilo" <sogilo@y...> wrote:

> I am trying to bake my first PCB, the thing is I don't know how to
> protect copper surface. Some says " Sprayed with a thin coat of

clear

> lacquer" but my application requires high current(200A) flow and i
> doubt that lacquer will do the job.

If I read your post correctly, 200 amps ?

I don't think the COPPER will do the job.

or, you got one heck of a trace there.

As far as protecting the copper, spray laquor is to keep it from
tarnishing.

if you want an all weather protector, be aware that the heat from a
200 amp trace may burn off most everything unless you are using some
pretty thick and wide traces.

Dave

On Fri, 19 Sep 2003 20:54:53 -0000, Dave Mucha <dave_mucha@...>
wrote:

> --- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, "sogilo" <sogilo@y...> wrote:
>> I am trying to bake my first PCB, the thing is I don't know how to
>> protect copper surface. Some says " Sprayed with a thin coat of
> clear
>> lacquer" but my application requires high current(200A) flow and i
>> doubt that lacquer will do the job.
>
>
> If I read your post correctly, 200 amps ?
>
> I don't think the COPPER will do the job.
>
> or, you got one heck of a trace there.
>
> As far as protecting the copper, spray laquor is to keep it from
> tarnishing.
>
> if you want an all weather protector, be aware that the heat from a 200
> amp trace may burn off most everything unless you are using some pretty
> thick and wide traces.
>
> Dave
>
>
>

I fear we get no more information on this. just like Markus and his patent
number ;-) .

Not nice to ask and then don't care about the answers...

st

>
>
>
> Be sure to visit the group home and check for new Bookmarks and files:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Homebrew_PCBs
>
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> Homebrew_PCBs-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>

@Dave
thanks for the tip with laquer thinner for solving colophony resin.
i tried it and it is much better than alcohol.
The "laquer" is the same density / concentration in the whole jar, it stays
good dissolved without stirring etc.
with alcohol it was always thicker at the bottom (with acetone too).
Dries quick and leaves a shiny coat.

I actually tried it as a resin for etching (because the quality is much
better now).
The problem is the plotter pens i have (carbide tipped) don't leave a thick
enough layer to resist HCl H2O2.
I will try repeated plotting and maybe try Fe3Cl which i have standing
around somewhere (Does it decay in a sealed Bottle?).

But i applied it with a piece of wire and with a piece of a paper towel
"disposeable brush with needle-nose pliers handle).

And this areas resisted the etching very well.
So i think the plotter pens simply make a too thin layer.

any ideas? - would be great to solder the boards with resin layer and also
protection against corrosion.

st

Here's what works for me, I use a HP 7475 pen plotter with a slot cut in the
case. I use a GC #22-222 Etch Resist Ink Pen. 1/64 " tip. Its fitted into a
drilled and honed out dried up HP pen. I have to keep etching fast. I heat Fe
CL3 on my grill outside, in a oven dish. Wear glasses, gloves, and apron. I
use a oven baster to spray the center of the project. The edges seem to eat
off first and I keep the acid going to the board center. This is not a time to
walk off and come back. I keep an eye on the board till it is complete. You
can always put it back in, but once its eaten the copper away its done.

Stefan Trethan wrote:

> @Dave
> thanks for the tip with laquer thinner for solving colophony resin.
> i tried it and it is much better than alcohol.
> The "laquer" is the same density / concentration in the whole jar, it stays
> good dissolved without stirring etc.
> with alcohol it was always thicker at the bottom (with acetone too).
> Dries quick and leaves a shiny coat.
>
> I actually tried it as a resin for etching (because the quality is much
> better now).
> The problem is the plotter pens i have (carbide tipped) don't leave a thick
> enough layer to resist HCl H2O2.
> I will try repeated plotting and maybe try Fe3Cl which i have standing
> around somewhere (Does it decay in a sealed Bottle?).
>
> But i applied it with a piece of wire and with a piece of a paper towel
> "disposeable brush with needle-nose pliers handle).
>
> And this areas resisted the etching very well.
> So i think the plotter pens simply make a too thin layer.
>
> any ideas? - would be great to solder the boards with resin layer and also
> protection against corrosion.
>
> st
>
>
> Be sure to visit the group home and check for new Bookmarks and files:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Homebrew_PCBs
>
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> Homebrew_PCBs-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

which tip has this pen?
which color has the ink?

maybe i really have to search this bottle of fe3cl... and then try
different inks.

The problem with using pens directly for me was that line with varies with
speed.
at the corners the pen slows down and the line with increases.
i didn'tlike this, the were small tears at both sides of each corner.

don't you have this problem with the resist pen?

st

On Sat, 20 Sep 2003 21:06:55 -0400, Don Perry <mojo@...> wrote:

> Here's what works for me, I use a HP 7475 pen plotter with a slot cut in
> the
> case. I use a GC #22-222 Etch Resist Ink Pen. 1/64 " tip. Its fitted
> into a
> drilled and honed out dried up HP pen. I have to keep etching fast. I
> heat Fe
> CL3 on my grill outside, in a oven dish. Wear glasses, gloves, and
> apron. I
> use a oven baster to spray the center of the project. The edges seem to
> eat
> off first and I keep the acid going to the board center. This is not a
> time to
> walk off and come back. I keep an eye on the board till it is complete.
> You
> can always put it back in, but once its eaten the copper away its done.
>
> Stefan Trethan wrote:
>
>> @Dave
>> thanks for the tip with laquer thinner for solving colophony resin.
>> i tried it and it is much better than alcohol.
>> The "laquer" is the same density / concentration in the whole jar, it
>> stays
>> good dissolved without stirring etc.
>> with alcohol it was always thicker at the bottom (with acetone too).
>> Dries quick and leaves a shiny coat.
>>
>> I actually tried it as a resin for etching (because the quality is much
>> better now).
>> The problem is the plotter pens i have (carbide tipped) don't leave a
>> thick
>> enough layer to resist HCl H2O2.
>> I will try repeated plotting and maybe try Fe3Cl which i have standing
>> around somewhere (Does it decay in a sealed Bottle?).
>>
>> But i applied it with a piece of wire and with a piece of a paper towel
>> "disposeable brush with needle-nose pliers handle).
>>
>> And this areas resisted the etching very well.
>> So i think the plotter pens simply make a too thin layer.
>>
>> any ideas? - would be great to solder the boards with resin layer and
>> also
>> protection against corrosion.
>>
>> st
>>
>>
>> Be sure to visit the group home and check for new Bookmarks and files:
>> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Homebrew_PCBs
>>
>> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
>> Homebrew_PCBs-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>>
>>
>>
>> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
>> http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>
>
>
> Be sure to visit the group home and check for new Bookmarks and files:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Homebrew_PCBs
>
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> Homebrew_PCBs-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>

I have the plotter running - slow. And I always add angle to each 90 deg trace
in the artwork. A short trace placed in the inside corner of each trace. The
angle is the shortest one that fits for the trace width. That helps and touchup
after plotting does too. I also sometimes keep the pcb in the plotter after
its done, and replot after it has dried 15-20. That CG pen I use doesn't seem
to scrape ink off on retracing.

Stefan Trethan wrote:

> which tip has this pen?
> which color has the ink?
>
> maybe i really have to search this bottle of fe3cl... and then try
> different inks.
>
> The problem with using pens directly for me was that line with varies with
> speed.
> at the corners the pen slows down and the line with increases.
> i didn'tlike this, the were small tears at both sides of each corner.
>
> don't you have this problem with the resist pen?
>
> st
>
> On Sat, 20 Sep 2003 21:06:55 -0400, Don Perry <mojo@...> wrote:
>
> > Here's what works for me, I use a HP 7475 pen plotter with a slot cut in
> > the
> > case. I use a GC #22-222 Etch Resist Ink Pen. 1/64 " tip. Its fitted
> > into a
> > drilled and honed out dried up HP pen. I have to keep etching fast. I
> > heat Fe
> > CL3 on my grill outside, in a oven dish. Wear glasses, gloves, and
> > apron. I
> > use a oven baster to spray the center of the project. The edges seem to
> > eat
> > off first and I keep the acid going to the board center. This is not a
> > time to
> > walk off and come back. I keep an eye on the board till it is complete.
> > You
> > can always put it back in, but once its eaten the copper away its done.
> >
> > Stefan Trethan wrote:
> >
> >> @Dave
> >> thanks for the tip with laquer thinner for solving colophony resin.
> >> i tried it and it is much better than alcohol.
> >> The "laquer" is the same density / concentration in the whole jar, it
> >> stays
> >> good dissolved without stirring etc.
> >> with alcohol it was always thicker at the bottom (with acetone too).
> >> Dries quick and leaves a shiny coat.
> >>
> >> I actually tried it as a resin for etching (because the quality is much
> >> better now).
> >> The problem is the plotter pens i have (carbide tipped) don't leave a
> >> thick
> >> enough layer to resist HCl H2O2.
> >> I will try repeated plotting and maybe try Fe3Cl which i have standing
> >> around somewhere (Does it decay in a sealed Bottle?).
> >>
> >> But i applied it with a piece of wire and with a piece of a paper towel
> >> "disposeable brush with needle-nose pliers handle).
> >>
> >> And this areas resisted the etching very well.
> >> So i think the plotter pens simply make a too thin layer.
> >>
> >> any ideas? - would be great to solder the boards with resin layer and
> >> also
> >> protection against corrosion.
> >>
> >> st
> >>
> >>
> >> Be sure to visit the group home and check for new Bookmarks and files:
> >> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Homebrew_PCBs
> >>
> >> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> >> Homebrew_PCBs-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> >> http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Be sure to visit the group home and check for new Bookmarks and files:
> > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Homebrew_PCBs
> >
> > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> > Homebrew_PCBs-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
> >
> >
> >
> > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> >
> >
> >
>
>
> Be sure to visit the group home and check for new Bookmarks and files:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Homebrew_PCBs
>
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> Homebrew_PCBs-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

and it has nylon tip?
or felt?
or metal?

thanks

st

On Fri, 26 Sep 2003 09:05:57 -0400, Don Perry <mojo@...> wrote:

> I have the plotter running - slow. And I always add angle to each 90 deg
> trace
> in the artwork. A short trace placed in the inside corner of each trace.
> The
> angle is the shortest one that fits for the trace width. That helps and
> touchup
> after plotting does too. I also sometimes keep the pcb in the plotter
> after
> its done, and replot after it has dried 15-20. That CG pen I use doesn't
> seem
> to scrape ink off on retracing.
>
> Stefan Trethan wrote:
>
>> which tip has this pen?
>> which color has the ink?
>>
>> maybe i really have to search this bottle of fe3cl... and then try
>> different inks.
>>
>> The problem with using pens directly for me was that line with varies
>> with
>> speed.
>> at the corners the pen slows down and the line with increases.
>> i didn'tlike this, the were small tears at both sides of each corner.
>>
>> don't you have this problem with the resist pen?
>>
>> st
>>
>> On Sat, 20 Sep 2003 21:06:55 -0400, Don Perry <mojo@...> wrote:
>>
>> > Here's what works for me, I use a HP 7475 pen plotter with a slot cut
>> in
>> > the
>> > case. I use a GC #22-222 Etch Resist Ink Pen. 1/64 " tip. Its
>> fitted
>> > into a
>> > drilled and honed out dried up HP pen. I have to keep etching fast. I
>> > heat Fe
>> > CL3 on my grill outside, in a oven dish. Wear glasses, gloves, and
>> > apron. I
>> > use a oven baster to spray the center of the project. The edges seem
>> to
>> > eat
>> > off first and I keep the acid going to the board center. This is not
>> a
>> > time to
>> > walk off and come back. I keep an eye on the board till it is
>> complete.
>> > You
>> > can always put it back in, but once its eaten the copper away its
>> done.
>> >
>> > Stefan Trethan wrote:
>> >
>> >> @Dave
>> >> thanks for the tip with laquer thinner for solving colophony resin.
>> >> i tried it and it is much better than alcohol.
>> >> The "laquer" is the same density / concentration in the whole jar, it
>> >> stays
>> >> good dissolved without stirring etc.
>> >> with alcohol it was always thicker at the bottom (with acetone too).
>> >> Dries quick and leaves a shiny coat.
>> >>
>> >> I actually tried it as a resin for etching (because the quality is
>> much
>> >> better now).
>> >> The problem is the plotter pens i have (carbide tipped) don't leave a
>> >> thick
>> >> enough layer to resist HCl H2O2.
>> >> I will try repeated plotting and maybe try Fe3Cl which i have
>> standing
>> >> around somewhere (Does it decay in a sealed Bottle?).
>> >>
>> >> But i applied it with a piece of wire and with a piece of a paper
>> towel
>> >> "disposeable brush with needle-nose pliers handle).
>> >>
>> >> And this areas resisted the etching very well.
>> >> So i think the plotter pens simply make a too thin layer.
>> >>
>> >> any ideas? - would be great to solder the boards with resin layer and
>> >> also
>> >> protection against corrosion.
>> >>
>> >> st
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> Be sure to visit the group home and check for new Bookmarks and
>> files:
>> >> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Homebrew_PCBs
>> >>
>> >> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
>> >> Homebrew_PCBs-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
>> >> http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > Be sure to visit the group home and check for new Bookmarks and files:
>> > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Homebrew_PCBs
>> >
>> > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
>> > Homebrew_PCBs-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
>> http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>> >
>> >
>> >
>>
>>
>> Be sure to visit the group home and check for new Bookmarks and files:
>> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Homebrew_PCBs
>>
>> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
>> Homebrew_PCBs-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>>
>>
>>
>> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
>> http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>
>
> Be sure to visit the group home and check for new Bookmarks and files:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Homebrew_PCBs
>
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> Homebrew_PCBs-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>

The pen from GC electronics Cat # 22-222 is black with 1/64 tip. Not
sure just what the tip might be, but its not metal. They do dry out
easy, so be sure to cap it when your done. But the price was only $2.XX
something each at my local store. My plotter was $40 from the scrap
yard and is a HP7475.

Don Perry wrote:

> I have the plotter running - slow. And I always add angle to each 90
> deg trace
> in the artwork. A short trace placed in the inside corner of each
> trace. The
> angle is the shortest one that fits for the trace width. That helps
> and touchup
> after plotting does too. I also sometimes keep the pcb in the
> plotter after
> its done, and replot after it has dried 15-20. That CG pen I use
> doesn't seem
> to scrape ink off on retracing.
>
> Stefan Trethan wrote:
>
> > which tip has this pen?
> > which color has the ink?
> >
> > maybe i really have to search this bottle of fe3cl... and then try
> > different inks.
> >
> > The problem with using pens directly for me was that line with
> varies with
> > speed.
> > at the corners the pen slows down and the line with increases.
> > i didn'tlike this, the were small tears at both sides of each
> corner.
> >
> > don't you have this problem with the resist pen?
> >
> > st
> >
> > On Sat, 20 Sep 2003 21:06:55 -0400, Don Perry <mojo@...>
> wrote:
> >
> > > Here's what works for me, I use a HP 7475 pen plotter with a slot
> cut in
> > > the
> > > case. I use a GC #22-222 Etch Resist Ink Pen. 1/64 " tip. Its
> fitted
> > > into a
> > > drilled and honed out dried up HP pen. I have to keep etching
> fast. I
> > > heat Fe
> > > CL3 on my grill outside, in a oven dish. Wear glasses, gloves,
> and
> > > apron. I
> > > use a oven baster to spray the center of the project. The edges
> seem to
> > > eat
> > > off first and I keep the acid going to the board center. This is
> not a
> > > time to
> > > walk off and come back. I keep an eye on the board till it is
> complete.
> > > You
> > > can always put it back in, but once its eaten the copper away its
> done.
> > >
> > > Stefan Trethan wrote:
> > >
> > >> @Dave
> > >> thanks for the tip with laquer thinner for solving colophony
> resin.
> > >> i tried it and it is much better than alcohol.
> > >> The "laquer" is the same density / concentration in the whole
> jar, it
> > >> stays
> > >> good dissolved without stirring etc.
> > >> with alcohol it was always thicker at the bottom (with acetone
> too).
> > >> Dries quick and leaves a shiny coat.
> > >>
> > >> I actually tried it as a resin for etching (because the quality
> is much
> > >> better now).
> > >> The problem is the plotter pens i have (carbide tipped) don't
> leave a
> > >> thick
> > >> enough layer to resist HCl H2O2.
> > >> I will try repeated plotting and maybe try Fe3Cl which i have
> standing
> > >> around somewhere (Does it decay in a sealed Bottle?).
> > >>
> > >> But i applied it with a piece of wire and with a piece of a paper
> towel
> > >> "disposeable brush with needle-nose pliers handle).
> > >>
> > >> And this areas resisted the etching very well.
> > >> So i think the plotter pens simply make a too thin layer.
> > >>
> > >> any ideas? - would be great to solder the boards with resin layer
> and
> > >> also
> > >> protection against corrosion.
> > >>
> > >> st
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> Be sure to visit the group home and check for new Bookmarks and
> files:
> > >> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Homebrew_PCBs
> > >>
> > >> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> > >> Homebrew_PCBs-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> > >> http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Be sure to visit the group home and check for new Bookmarks and
> files:
> > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Homebrew_PCBs
> > >
> > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> > > Homebrew_PCBs-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> > Be sure to visit the group home and check for new Bookmarks and
> files:
> > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Homebrew_PCBs
> >
> > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> > Homebrew_PCBs-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
> >
> >
> >
> > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups Sponsor

ADVERTISEMENT
[click here]

>
> Be sure to visit the group home and check for new Bookmarks and files:
>
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Homebrew_PCBs
>
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> Homebrew_PCBs-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

i fear i can't get exactly that one, thus i am asking..
(not even know what gc electronics is...)
do they have online descriptions of products?

st

On Fri, 26 Sep 2003 09:16:17 -0400, Don Perry <mojo@...> wrote:

> The pen from GC electronics Cat # 22-222 is black with 1/64 tip. Not
> sure just what the tip might be, but its not metal. They do dry out
> easy, so be sure to cap it when your done. But the price was only $2.XX
> something each at my local store. My plotter was $40 from the scrap
> yard and is a HP7475.
>
> Don Perry wrote:
>
>> I have the plotter running - slow. And I always add angle to each 90
>> deg trace
>> in the artwork. A short trace placed in the inside corner of each
>> trace. The
>> angle is the shortest one that fits for the trace width. That helps
>> and touchup
>> after plotting does too. I also sometimes keep the pcb in the
>> plotter after
>> its done, and replot after it has dried 15-20. That CG pen I use
>> doesn't seem
>> to scrape ink off on retracing.
>>
>> Stefan Trethan wrote:
>>
>> > which tip has this pen?
>> > which color has the ink?
>> >
>> > maybe i really have to search this bottle of fe3cl... and then try
>> > different inks.
>> >
>> > The problem with using pens directly for me was that line with
>> varies with
>> > speed.
>> > at the corners the pen slows down and the line with increases.
>> > i didn'tlike this, the were small tears at both sides of each
>> corner.
>> >
>> > don't you have this problem with the resist pen?
>> >
>> > st
>> >
>> > On Sat, 20 Sep 2003 21:06:55 -0400, Don Perry <mojo@...>
>> wrote:
>> >
>> > > Here's what works for me, I use a HP 7475 pen plotter with a slot
>> cut in
>> > > the
>> > > case. I use a GC #22-222 Etch Resist Ink Pen. 1/64 " tip. Its
>> fitted
>> > > into a
>> > > drilled and honed out dried up HP pen. I have to keep etching
>> fast. I
>> > > heat Fe
>> > > CL3 on my grill outside, in a oven dish. Wear glasses, gloves,
>> and
>> > > apron. I
>> > > use a oven baster to spray the center of the project. The edges
>> seem to
>> > > eat
>> > > off first and I keep the acid going to the board center. This is
>> not a
>> > > time to
>> > > walk off and come back. I keep an eye on the board till it is
>> complete.
>> > > You
>> > > can always put it back in, but once its eaten the copper away its
>> done.
>> > >
>> > > Stefan Trethan wrote:
>> > >
>> > >> @Dave
>> > >> thanks for the tip with laquer thinner for solving colophony
>> resin.
>> > >> i tried it and it is much better than alcohol.
>> > >> The "laquer" is the same density / concentration in the whole
>> jar, it
>> > >> stays
>> > >> good dissolved without stirring etc.
>> > >> with alcohol it was always thicker at the bottom (with acetone
>> too).
>> > >> Dries quick and leaves a shiny coat.
>> > >>
>> > >> I actually tried it as a resin for etching (because the quality
>> is much
>> > >> better now).
>> > >> The problem is the plotter pens i have (carbide tipped) don't
>> leave a
>> > >> thick
>> > >> enough layer to resist HCl H2O2.
>> > >> I will try repeated plotting and maybe try Fe3Cl which i have
>> standing
>> > >> around somewhere (Does it decay in a sealed Bottle?).
>> > >>
>> > >> But i applied it with a piece of wire and with a piece of a paper
>> towel
>> > >> "disposeable brush with needle-nose pliers handle).
>> > >>
>> > >> And this areas resisted the etching very well.
>> > >> So i think the plotter pens simply make a too thin layer.
>> > >>
>> > >> any ideas? - would be great to solder the boards with resin layer
>> and
>> > >> also
>> > >> protection against corrosion.
>> > >>
>> > >> st
>> > >>
>> > >>
>> > >> Be sure to visit the group home and check for new Bookmarks and
>> files:
>> > >> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Homebrew_PCBs
>> > >>
>> > >> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
>> > >> Homebrew_PCBs-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>> > >>
>> > >>
>> > >>
>> > >> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
>> > >> http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >
>> > > Be sure to visit the group home and check for new Bookmarks and
>> files:
>> > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Homebrew_PCBs
>> > >
>> > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
>> > > Homebrew_PCBs-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >
>> > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
>> http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >
>> >
>> >
>> > Be sure to visit the group home and check for new Bookmarks and
>> files:
>> > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Homebrew_PCBs
>> >
>> > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
>> > Homebrew_PCBs-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
>> http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>>
>>
>>
>> Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
> ADVERTISEMENT
> [click here]
>
>>
>> Be sure to visit the group home and check for new Bookmarks and files:
>>
>> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Homebrew_PCBs
>>
>> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
>> Homebrew_PCBs-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>>
>>
>>
>> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
> Be sure to visit the group home and check for new Bookmarks and files:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Homebrew_PCBs
>
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> Homebrew_PCBs-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>

My acid of choice is ammonium per sulfate, not ferric chloride. I just happen
to have a radio shack down the road owned by a friend.

Stefan Trethan wrote:

> and it has nylon tip?
> or felt?
> or metal?
>
> thanks
>
> st
>
> On Fri, 26 Sep 2003 09:05:57 -0400, Don Perry <mojo@...> wrote:
>
> > I have the plotter running - slow. And I always add angle to each 90 deg
> > trace
> > in the artwork. A short trace placed in the inside corner of each trace.
> > The
> > angle is the shortest one that fits for the trace width. That helps and
> > touchup
> > after plotting does too. I also sometimes keep the pcb in the plotter
> > after
> > its done, and replot after it has dried 15-20. That CG pen I use doesn't
> > seem
> > to scrape ink off on retracing.
> >
> > Stefan Trethan wrote:
> >
> >> which tip has this pen?
> >> which color has the ink?
> >>
> >> maybe i really have to search this bottle of fe3cl... and then try
> >> different inks.
> >>
> >> The problem with using pens directly for me was that line with varies
> >> with
> >> speed.
> >> at the corners the pen slows down and the line with increases.
> >> i didn'tlike this, the were small tears at both sides of each corner.
> >>
> >> don't you have this problem with the resist pen?
> >>
> >> st
> >>
> >> On Sat, 20 Sep 2003 21:06:55 -0400, Don Perry <mojo@...> wrote:
> >>
> >> > Here's what works for me, I use a HP 7475 pen plotter with a slot cut
> >> in
> >> > the
> >> > case. I use a GC #22-222 Etch Resist Ink Pen. 1/64 " tip. Its
> >> fitted
> >> > into a
> >> > drilled and honed out dried up HP pen. I have to keep etching fast. I
> >> > heat Fe
> >> > CL3 on my grill outside, in a oven dish. Wear glasses, gloves, and
> >> > apron. I
> >> > use a oven baster to spray the center of the project. The edges seem
> >> to
> >> > eat
> >> > off first and I keep the acid going to the board center. This is not
> >> a
> >> > time to
> >> > walk off and come back. I keep an eye on the board till it is
> >> complete.
> >> > You
> >> > can always put it back in, but once its eaten the copper away its
> >> done.
> >> >
> >> > Stefan Trethan wrote:
> >> >
> >> >> @Dave
> >> >> thanks for the tip with laquer thinner for solving colophony resin.
> >> >> i tried it and it is much better than alcohol.
> >> >> The "laquer" is the same density / concentration in the whole jar, it
> >> >> stays
> >> >> good dissolved without stirring etc.
> >> >> with alcohol it was always thicker at the bottom (with acetone too).
> >> >> Dries quick and leaves a shiny coat.
> >> >>
> >> >> I actually tried it as a resin for etching (because the quality is
> >> much
> >> >> better now).
> >> >> The problem is the plotter pens i have (carbide tipped) don't leave a
> >> >> thick
> >> >> enough layer to resist HCl H2O2.
> >> >> I will try repeated plotting and maybe try Fe3Cl which i have
> >> standing
> >> >> around somewhere (Does it decay in a sealed Bottle?).
> >> >>
> >> >> But i applied it with a piece of wire and with a piece of a paper
> >> towel
> >> >> "disposeable brush with needle-nose pliers handle).
> >> >>
> >> >> And this areas resisted the etching very well.
> >> >> So i think the plotter pens simply make a too thin layer.
> >> >>
> >> >> any ideas? - would be great to solder the boards with resin layer and
> >> >> also
> >> >> protection against corrosion.
> >> >>
> >> >> st
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >> Be sure to visit the group home and check for new Bookmarks and
> >> files:
> >> >> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Homebrew_PCBs
> >> >>
> >> >> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> >> >> Homebrew_PCBs-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> >> >> http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > Be sure to visit the group home and check for new Bookmarks and files:
> >> > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Homebrew_PCBs
> >> >
> >> > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> >> > Homebrew_PCBs-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> >> http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >>
> >>
> >> Be sure to visit the group home and check for new Bookmarks and files:
> >> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Homebrew_PCBs
> >>
> >> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> >> Homebrew_PCBs-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> >> http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Be sure to visit the group home and check for new Bookmarks and files:
> > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Homebrew_PCBs
> >
> > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> > Homebrew_PCBs-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
> >
> >
> >
> > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> >
> >
> >
>
>
> Be sure to visit the group home and check for new Bookmarks and files:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Homebrew_PCBs
>
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> Homebrew_PCBs-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

I have a what looks like a brand new GC catalog right here in my hand. It says
1-800-435-2931 customer service. A division of GC thorsen Inc. 1801 Morgan
Street Rockford, IL I don't see a web site posted on it.

Stefan Trethan wrote:

> i fear i can't get exactly that one, thus i am asking..
> (not even know what gc electronics is...)
> do they have online descriptions of products?
>
> st
>
> On Fri, 26 Sep 2003 09:16:17 -0400, Don Perry <mojo@...> wrote:
>
> > The pen from GC electronics Cat # 22-222 is black with 1/64 tip. Not
> > sure just what the tip might be, but its not metal. They do dry out
> > easy, so be sure to cap it when your done. But the price was only $2.XX
> > something each at my local store. My plotter was $40 from the scrap
> > yard and is a HP7475.
> >
> > Don Perry wrote:
> >
> >> I have the plotter running - slow. And I always add angle to each 90
> >> deg trace
> >> in the artwork. A short trace placed in the inside corner of each
> >> trace. The
> >> angle is the shortest one that fits for the trace width. That helps
> >> and touchup
> >> after plotting does too. I also sometimes keep the pcb in the
> >> plotter after
> >> its done, and replot after it has dried 15-20. That CG pen I use
> >> doesn't seem
> >> to scrape ink off on retracing.
> >>
> >> Stefan Trethan wrote:
> >>
> >> > which tip has this pen?
> >> > which color has the ink?
> >> >
> >> > maybe i really have to search this bottle of fe3cl... and then try
> >> > different inks.
> >> >
> >> > The problem with using pens directly for me was that line with
> >> varies with
> >> > speed.
> >> > at the corners the pen slows down and the line with increases.
> >> > i didn'tlike this, the were small tears at both sides of each
> >> corner.
> >> >
> >> > don't you have this problem with the resist pen?
> >> >
> >> > st
> >> >
> >> > On Sat, 20 Sep 2003 21:06:55 -0400, Don Perry <mojo@...>
> >> wrote:
> >> >
> >> > > Here's what works for me, I use a HP 7475 pen plotter with a slot
> >> cut in
> >> > > the
> >> > > case. I use a GC #22-222 Etch Resist Ink Pen. 1/64 " tip. Its
> >> fitted
> >> > > into a
> >> > > drilled and honed out dried up HP pen. I have to keep etching
> >> fast. I
> >> > > heat Fe
> >> > > CL3 on my grill outside, in a oven dish. Wear glasses, gloves,
> >> and
> >> > > apron. I
> >> > > use a oven baster to spray the center of the project. The edges
> >> seem to
> >> > > eat
> >> > > off first and I keep the acid going to the board center. This is
> >> not a
> >> > > time to
> >> > > walk off and come back. I keep an eye on the board till it is
> >> complete.
> >> > > You
> >> > > can always put it back in, but once its eaten the copper away its
> >> done.
> >> > >
> >> > > Stefan Trethan wrote:
> >> > >
> >> > >> @Dave
> >> > >> thanks for the tip with laquer thinner for solving colophony
> >> resin.
> >> > >> i tried it and it is much better than alcohol.
> >> > >> The "laquer" is the same density / concentration in the whole
> >> jar, it
> >> > >> stays
> >> > >> good dissolved without stirring etc.
> >> > >> with alcohol it was always thicker at the bottom (with acetone
> >> too).
> >> > >> Dries quick and leaves a shiny coat.
> >> > >>
> >> > >> I actually tried it as a resin for etching (because the quality
> >> is much
> >> > >> better now).
> >> > >> The problem is the plotter pens i have (carbide tipped) don't
> >> leave a
> >> > >> thick
> >> > >> enough layer to resist HCl H2O2.
> >> > >> I will try repeated plotting and maybe try Fe3Cl which i have
> >> standing
> >> > >> around somewhere (Does it decay in a sealed Bottle?).
> >> > >>
> >> > >> But i applied it with a piece of wire and with a piece of a paper
> >> towel
> >> > >> "disposeable brush with needle-nose pliers handle).
> >> > >>
> >> > >> And this areas resisted the etching very well.
> >> > >> So i think the plotter pens simply make a too thin layer.
> >> > >>
> >> > >> any ideas? - would be great to solder the boards with resin layer
> >> and
> >> > >> also
> >> > >> protection against corrosion.
> >> > >>
> >> > >> st
> >> > >>
> >> > >>
> >> > >> Be sure to visit the group home and check for new Bookmarks and
> >> files:
> >> > >> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Homebrew_PCBs
> >> > >>
> >> > >> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> >> > >> Homebrew_PCBs-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
> >> > >>
> >> > >>
> >> > >>
> >> > >> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> >> > >> http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> >> > >
> >> > >
> >> > >
> >> > >
> >> > >
> >> > > Be sure to visit the group home and check for new Bookmarks and
> >> files:
> >> > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Homebrew_PCBs
> >> > >
> >> > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> >> > > Homebrew_PCBs-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
> >> > >
> >> > >
> >> > >
> >> > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> >> http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> >> > >
> >> > >
> >> > >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > Be sure to visit the group home and check for new Bookmarks and
> >> files:
> >> > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Homebrew_PCBs
> >> >
> >> > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> >> > Homebrew_PCBs-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> >> http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
> > ADVERTISEMENT
> > [click here]
> >
> >>
> >> Be sure to visit the group home and check for new Bookmarks and files:
> >>
> >> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Homebrew_PCBs
> >>
> >> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> >> Homebrew_PCBs-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
> >
> >
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> >
> >
> >
> > Be sure to visit the group home and check for new Bookmarks and files:
> > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Homebrew_PCBs
> >
> > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> > Homebrew_PCBs-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
> >
> >
> >
> > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> >
> >
> >
>
>
> Be sure to visit the group home and check for new Bookmarks and files:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Homebrew_PCBs
>
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> Homebrew_PCBs-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

thanks...

but i won't call there.. you know this is around the globe and would cost
much more than the pen itself.
i also doubt they know which tip the pen has.

there are some pages which sell gc stuff but i didn't find any page from
them.

thanks anyways.. i will experiment further with the plotter when i have
time (which in the moment i don't).

stefan

On Fri, 26 Sep 2003 09:30:51 -0400, Don Perry <mojo@...> wrote:

> I have a what looks like a brand new GC catalog right here in my hand.
> It says
> 1-800-435-2931 customer service. A division of GC thorsen Inc. 1801
> Morgan
> Street Rockford, IL I don't see a web site posted on it.
>
> Stefan Trethan wrote:
>
>> i fear i can't get exactly that one, thus i am asking..
>> (not even know what gc electronics is...)
>> do they have online descriptions of products?
>>
>> st
>>
>> On Fri, 26 Sep 2003 09:16:17 -0400, Don Perry <mojo@...> wrote:
>>
>> > The pen from GC electronics Cat # 22-222 is black with 1/64 tip. Not
>> > sure just what the tip might be, but its not metal. They do dry out
>> > easy, so be sure to cap it when your done. But the price was only
>> $2.XX
>> > something each at my local store. My plotter was $40 from the scrap
>> > yard and is a HP7475.
>> >
>> > Don Perry wrote:
>> >
>> >> I have the plotter running - slow. And I always add angle to each 90
>> >> deg trace
>> >> in the artwork. A short trace placed in the inside corner of each
>> >> trace. The
>> >> angle is the shortest one that fits for the trace width. That helps
>> >> and touchup
>> >> after plotting does too. I also sometimes keep the pcb in the
>> >> plotter after
>> >> its done, and replot after it has dried 15-20. That CG pen I use
>> >> doesn't seem
>> >> to scrape ink off on retracing.
>> >>
>> >> Stefan Trethan wrote:
>> >>
>> >> > which tip has this pen?
>> >> > which color has the ink?
>> >> >
>> >> > maybe i really have to search this bottle of fe3cl... and then try
>> >> > different inks.
>> >> >
>> >> > The problem with using pens directly for me was that line with
>> >> varies with
>> >> > speed.
>> >> > at the corners the pen slows down and the line with increases.
>> >> > i didn'tlike this, the were small tears at both sides of each
>> >> corner.
>> >> >
>> >> > don't you have this problem with the resist pen?
>> >> >
>> >> > st
>> >> >
>> >> > On Sat, 20 Sep 2003 21:06:55 -0400, Don Perry <mojo@...>
>> >> wrote:
>> >> >
>> >> > > Here's what works for me, I use a HP 7475 pen plotter with a slot
>> >> cut in
>> >> > > the
>> >> > > case. I use a GC #22-222 Etch Resist Ink Pen. 1/64 " tip. Its
>> >> fitted
>> >> > > into a
>> >> > > drilled and honed out dried up HP pen. I have to keep etching
>> >> fast. I
>> >> > > heat Fe
>> >> > > CL3 on my grill outside, in a oven dish. Wear glasses, gloves,
>> >> and
>> >> > > apron. I
>> >> > > use a oven baster to spray the center of the project. The edges
>> >> seem to
>> >> > > eat
>> >> > > off first and I keep the acid going to the board center. This is
>> >> not a
>> >> > > time to
>> >> > > walk off and come back. I keep an eye on the board till it is
>> >> complete.
>> >> > > You
>> >> > > can always put it back in, but once its eaten the copper away its
>> >> done.
>> >> > >
>> >> > > Stefan Trethan wrote:
>> >> > >
>> >> > >> @Dave
>> >> > >> thanks for the tip with laquer thinner for solving colophony
>> >> resin.
>> >> > >> i tried it and it is much better than alcohol.
>> >> > >> The "laquer" is the same density / concentration in the whole
>> >> jar, it
>> >> > >> stays
>> >> > >> good dissolved without stirring etc.
>> >> > >> with alcohol it was always thicker at the bottom (with acetone
>> >> too).
>> >> > >> Dries quick and leaves a shiny coat.
>> >> > >>
>> >> > >> I actually tried it as a resin for etching (because the quality
>> >> is much
>> >> > >> better now).
>> >> > >> The problem is the plotter pens i have (carbide tipped) don't
>> >> leave a
>> >> > >> thick
>> >> > >> enough layer to resist HCl H2O2.
>> >> > >> I will try repeated plotting and maybe try Fe3Cl which i have
>> >> standing
>> >> > >> around somewhere (Does it decay in a sealed Bottle?).
>> >> > >>
>> >> > >> But i applied it with a piece of wire and with a piece of a
>> paper
>> >> towel
>> >> > >> "disposeable brush with needle-nose pliers handle).
>> >> > >>
>> >> > >> And this areas resisted the etching very well.
>> >> > >> So i think the plotter pens simply make a too thin layer.
>> >> > >>
>> >> > >> any ideas? - would be great to solder the boards with resin
>> layer
>> >> and
>> >> > >> also
>> >> > >> protection against corrosion.
>> >> > >>
>> >> > >> st
>> >> > >>
>> >> > >>
>> >> > >> Be sure to visit the group home and check for new Bookmarks and
>> >> files:
>> >> > >> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Homebrew_PCBs
>> >> > >>
>> >> > >> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
>> >> > >> Homebrew_PCBs-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>> >> > >>
>> >> > >>
>> >> > >>
>> >> > >> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
>> >> > >> http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>> >> > >
>> >> > >
>> >> > >
>> >> > >
>> >> > >
>> >> > > Be sure to visit the group home and check for new Bookmarks and
>> >> files:
>> >> > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Homebrew_PCBs
>> >> > >
>> >> > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
>> >> > > Homebrew_PCBs-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>> >> > >
>> >> > >
>> >> > >
>> >> > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
>> >> http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>> >> > >
>> >> > >
>> >> > >
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> > Be sure to visit the group home and check for new Bookmarks and
>> >> files:
>> >> > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Homebrew_PCBs
>> >> >
>> >> > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
>> >> > Homebrew_PCBs-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
>> >> http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
>> > ADVERTISEMENT
>> > [click here]
>> >
>> >>
>> >> Be sure to visit the group home and check for new Bookmarks and
>> files:
>> >>
>> >> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Homebrew_PCBs
>> >>
>> >> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
>> >> Homebrew_PCBs-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
>> >
>> >
>> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > Be sure to visit the group home and check for new Bookmarks and files:
>> > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Homebrew_PCBs
>> >
>> > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
>> > Homebrew_PCBs-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
>> http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>> >
>> >
>> >
>>
>>
>> Be sure to visit the group home and check for new Bookmarks and files:
>> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Homebrew_PCBs
>>
>> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
>> Homebrew_PCBs-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>>
>>
>>
>> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
>> http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>
>
> Be sure to visit the group home and check for new Bookmarks and files:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Homebrew_PCBs
>
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> Homebrew_PCBs-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>

Google the phone number 800-435-2931

www.gcwaldom.com

Didn't find pens though.


didn't Staedler have suppliers around the world ?

seems an office supply place might offer some options.

or, paint the whole board and with a small rotary cutter/scratcher,
scratch off what you don't want, and leave the trace.

Dave

> It says
> > 1-800-435-2931 customer service. A division of GC thorsen Inc.

good idea - i googled the name and didn't find them..

but the page isn't that great i would say...
thanks for your search anyways...

i tried the staedtler pens first, good available here.
But they make lines where the with is dependent of pen speed.
And on the edges where the pen stops appear teardrops...
Also the thickness is 0,5 to 0,8 minimum...

the scratch method is the last i will try, if nothing else works.
i don't like it much because it produces a negative image, like milling.

as said i have not too much time now..
i wil experiment next week again with different pens, and repeated
plotting.

st

On Sat, 27 Sep 2003 01:51:00 -0000, Dave Mucha <dave_mucha@...>
wrote:

> Google the phone number 800-435-2931
>
> www.gcwaldom.com
>
> Didn't find pens though.
>
>
> didn't Staedler have suppliers around the world ?
>
> seems an office supply place might offer some options.
>
> or, paint the whole board and with a small rotary cutter/scratcher,
> scratch off what you don't want, and leave the trace.
>
> Dave
>
>
>
> > It says
>> > 1-800-435-2931 customer service. A division of GC thorsen Inc.
>
>
>
> Be sure to visit the group home and check for new Bookmarks and files:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Homebrew_PCBs
>
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> Homebrew_PCBs-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>

GC Electronics is under GC/Waldom website does not tell you much
as I believe that you have to be registered dealer to get to most
information on the site. They do give you access to there Dist.
locator but think they are only U.S. and Canada that I saw.

Mouser www.mouser.com I believe carries the GC Electronics resist
pens but don't list them as GC Electronics. They list two pen widths
1/32" and 1/64" or .79 mm and .39 mm. these list for $2.48 and
$2.64 each Page 1040 in Cat.#615

MG Chemicals has a resist pen www.mgchemicals.com I buy MG
Chemicals thru Circuit Specialists www.web-tronics.com MG
Chemicals pen is only listed for use with Ferric Chloride and Sodium
Persulfate, not for use with Ammonium Persulfate.

These pens look just like a Shapie, in fact I use a fine point
Shapie to do touch up when needed on my boards, I use Ferric
Chloride Etchant.

Ben

thanks...

in fact in the past i did a lot of rework with different "sharpie" like
pens.
(when i used photoresist and had problems with getting the films/exposure
right).

most inks in these pens works also with hcl h2o2 if used in the pen they
are sold for.
these nylon tipped pens sometimes are made like the outline of a star.
the ink is carried through capillary effect and gravity.
(the star shape offers a lot of thin channels, thus a lot capillary effect
is created)
altso the overall tip is rounded off, as i have seen.
if you drag it along the surface the trailing edge is lifted off the
surface.
this allows a lot of ink to stick to the surface.

the plotter pens are in principle only a round tube.
in the center is a thin wire which is spring loaded.
(i assume this wire is for aiding in capillary effect and making contact to
the surface).
the spring loading down the center wire (rounded tip on this wire) is very
light pressure, thus
it is depressed fully into the tip cylinder when contacting the paper (pcb)
.
when dragging the metal tip plotter pen the trailing edge is flat against
the surface.
the ink is only within the tube so the resulting layer of ink is very thin.
there are x grooved tips. this means 4 grooves are cut in the pipe tip to
make a better
flow of ink. with my carbide pens only the 0.18mm diameter is x grooved and
i can't see
any difference in ink layer thickness.

i guess this is most of what i know about this stuff.
i wanted to use metal tip pens because they produce a constant line with,
regardless of pen speed.
maybe i take some photos of the result i get with nylon tip pen (the
teardrops).


so the main problems i would say are:
a) the copper doesn't "suck up" the ink like paper (it is more like a ohp
transparency).
b) the expensive carbon tip pens are constructed so that the layer is to
thin.
c) the nylon tips result in teardrops because linewith is a function of pen
speed.

st


On Sat, 27 Sep 2003 15:37:29 -0000, Ben H. Lanmon <bhleavi@...>
wrote:

> GC Electronics is under GC/Waldom website does not tell you much as I
> believe that you have to be registered dealer to get to most information
> on the site. They do give you access to there Dist. locator but think
> they are only U.S. and Canada that I saw.
>
> Mouser www.mouser.com I believe carries the GC Electronics resist pens
> but don't list them as GC Electronics. They list two pen widths
> 1/32" and 1/64" or .79 mm and .39 mm. these list for $2.48 and $2.64
> each Page 1040 in Cat.#615
>
> MG Chemicals has a resist pen www.mgchemicals.com I buy MG Chemicals
> thru Circuit Specialists www.web-tronics.com MG Chemicals pen is only
> listed for use with Ferric Chloride and Sodium Persulfate, not for use
> with Ammonium Persulfate.
>
> These pens look just like a Shapie, in fact I use a fine point Shapie to
> do touch up when needed on my boards, I use Ferric Chloride Etchant.
>
> Ben
>
>
>
> Be sure to visit the group home and check for new Bookmarks and files:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Homebrew_PCBs
>
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> Homebrew_PCBs-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>