Homebrew PCBs

I am trying to establish what temperature I should use for my SMD parts soldering. My Iron is a Weller and has temperature not
wattage readout.

As I understand it the wattage should be around 200 for smd parts. What temp F does that correlate to?

Bob AD5VJ

Hi Bob,
I don't think you would want to use 200 watts to solder smd's with, 15 watts is more than enough. I have Weller station and my dial is calibrated in temp not watts. I keep it about 600 degress unless I'm trying to solder to a large ground plane. I like to have a iron a little on the hot side it puts less stress on the parts by flowing solder faster and getting off quicker than to slowely heat things up. Check your iron I can't believe it is 200 watts.
73, Bill N7OQ 

--- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, "AD5VJ  Bob" <rtnmi@...> wrote:

>
> I am trying to establish what temperature I should use for my SMD parts soldering. My Iron is a Weller and has temperature not
> wattage readout.
> 
> As I understand it the wattage should be around 200 for smd parts. What temp F does that correlate to?
> 
> Bob AD5VJ
>

On Thu, 15 Oct 2009 22:46:12 -0500, you wrote:

>I am trying to establish what temperature I should use for my SMD parts soldering. My Iron is a Weller and has temperature not
>wattage readout.

I'd say go for the temperature where solder melts, then a little more
to give the iron a reserve heat in the tip.

which weller is it?

>
>As I understand it the wattage should be around 200 for smd parts. What temp F does that correlate to?

IIRC, my soldering station is sitting at about 650 to 700 degrees F.
Could be wrong on that one, though.

Wattage is not all that relevant here, I think

Harvey

>
>Bob AD5VJ
>
>
>
>------------------------------------
>
>Be sure to visit the group home and check for new Links, Files, and Photos:
>http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Homebrew_PCBsYahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>

Hi Bill

Thanks for your input

I meant to write 200 F not watts. 

My station is a Weller WESD51. I found a manual for it and downloaded it and all it tells me is that it is a 50W station with an
adjustable setting of 350-850 F.

So even though it is not telling me temp to watt settings, I am assuming that means at the highest temperature of 850F it delivers
50W to the tip.

So to my way of thinking assuming it is a linear progression and simple math will suffice:

850F/50W= 17 degrees per watt

30W would be approx 510F
35W would be approx 595F

 So according to what you said: 600F seems to be around 37 Watts or so if my simple calculations are enough to correlate it which
and would be about right for SMD work.

If there is an engineer available please verify or smash my thinking.


Bob AD5VJ

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com 
> [mailto:Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of bverstelle
> Sent: Thursday, October 15, 2009 11:14 PM
> To: Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [Homebrew_PCBs] Re: SMD soldering
> 
> Hi Bob,
> I don't think you would want to use 200 watts to solder smd's 
> with, 15 watts is more than enough. I have Weller station and 
> my dial is calibrated in temp not watts. I keep it about 600 
> degrees unless I'm trying to solder to a large ground plane. 
> I like to have a iron a little on the hot side it puts less 
> stress on the parts by flowing solder faster and getting off 
> quicker than to slowly heat things up. Check your iron I 
> can't believe it is 200 watts.
> 73, Bill N7OQ 
> 
> --- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, "AD5VJ  Bob" <rtnmi@...> wrote:
> >
> > I am trying to establish what temperature I should use for my SMD 
> > parts soldering. My Iron is a Weller and has temperature 
> not wattage readout.
> > 
> > As I understand it the wattage should be around 200 for smd 
> parts. What temp F does that correlate to?
> > 
> > Bob AD5VJ
> >
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ------------------------------------
> 
> Be sure to visit the group home and check for new Links, 
> Files, and Photos:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Homebrew_PCBsYahoo! Groups Links
> 
> 
>

On Thu, 15 Oct 2009 23:39:37 -0500, you wrote:

>Hi Bill
>
>Thanks for your input
>
>I meant to write 200 F not watts. 

Ok, you need (obviously) enough heat to melt the solder, and enough
reserve (wattage) to heat the mass of the connection and keep it hot.

The reason people say to use a 30 watt or smaller iron when soldering
electronics is that those irons do not feature adjustable temperature.
The smaller wattage gives you a smaller tip, and hopefully you won't
take a welding torch to the project by using the iron.

You want to go for temperature.  600 to 700 is about right.  You can
start off low, then inch it up as you experiment to adjust it for the
right temperature.  Low enough for a good solder joint, not so high
that the part overheats.  

Harvey

>
>My station is a Weller WESD51. I found a manual for it and downloaded it and all it tells me is that it is a 50W station with an
>adjustable setting of 350-850 F.
>
>So even though it is not telling me temp to watt settings, I am assuming that means at the highest temperature of 850F it delivers
>50W to the tip.
>
>So to my way of thinking assuming it is a linear progression and simple math will suffice:
>
>850F/50W= 17 degrees per watt
>
>30W would be approx 510F
>35W would be approx 595F
>
> So according to what you said: 600F seems to be around 37 Watts or so if my simple calculations are enough to correlate it which
>and would be about right for SMD work.
>
>If there is an engineer available please verify or smash my thinking.
>
>
>Bob AD5VJ
>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com 
>> [mailto:Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of bverstelle
>> Sent: Thursday, October 15, 2009 11:14 PM
>> To: Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com
>> Subject: [Homebrew_PCBs] Re: SMD soldering
>> 
>> Hi Bob,
>> I don't think you would want to use 200 watts to solder smd's 
>> with, 15 watts is more than enough. I have Weller station and 
>> my dial is calibrated in temp not watts. I keep it about 600 
>> degrees unless I'm trying to solder to a large ground plane. 
>> I like to have a iron a little on the hot side it puts less 
>> stress on the parts by flowing solder faster and getting off 
>> quicker than to slowly heat things up. Check your iron I 
>> can't believe it is 200 watts.
>> 73, Bill N7OQ 
>> 
>> --- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, "AD5VJ  Bob" <rtnmi@...> wrote:
>> >
>> > I am trying to establish what temperature I should use for my SMD 
>> > parts soldering. My Iron is a Weller and has temperature 
>> not wattage readout.
>> > 
>> > As I understand it the wattage should be around 200 for smd 
>> parts. What temp F does that correlate to?
>> > 
>> > Bob AD5VJ
>> >
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> ------------------------------------
>> 
>> Be sure to visit the group home and check for new Links, 
>> Files, and Photos:
>> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Homebrew_PCBsYahoo! Groups Links
>> 
>> 
>> 
>
>
>
>------------------------------------
>
>Be sure to visit the group home and check for new Links, Files, and Photos:
>http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Homebrew_PCBsYahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>

Sound great guys thanks for the input, always helpful as usual. 

Now I am off to search for a 10X stereo microscope at a good price somewhere for soldering these little SMD's.

I wear trifocals now at 58 yrs, so bare eyes are out of the picture anymore for close up work like this stuff LOL

Bob AD5VJ  

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com 
> [mailto:Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Harvey White
> Sent: Friday, October 16, 2009 12:02 AM
> To: Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: Re: [Homebrew_PCBs] Re: SMD soldering
> 
> On Thu, 15 Oct 2009 23:39:37 -0500, you wrote:
> 
> >Hi Bill
> >
> >Thanks for your input
> >
> >I meant to write 200 F not watts. 
> 
> Ok, you need (obviously) enough heat to melt the solder, and 
> enough reserve (wattage) to heat the mass of the connection 
> and keep it hot.
> 
> The reason people say to use a 30 watt or smaller iron when 
> soldering electronics is that those irons do not feature 
> adjustable temperature.
> The smaller wattage gives you a smaller tip, and hopefully 
> you won't take a welding torch to the project by using the iron.
> 
> You want to go for temperature.  600 to 700 is about right.  
> You can start off low, then inch it up as you experiment to 
> adjust it for the right temperature.  Low enough for a good 
> solder joint, not so high that the part overheats.  
> 
> Harvey
> 
> 
> >
> >My station is a Weller WESD51. I found a manual for it and 
> downloaded 
> >it and all it tells me is that it is a 50W station with an 
> adjustable setting of 350-850 F.
> >
> >So even though it is not telling me temp to watt settings, I am 
> >assuming that means at the highest temperature of 850F it 
> delivers 50W to the tip.
> >
> >So to my way of thinking assuming it is a linear progression 
> and simple math will suffice:
> >
> >850F/50W= 17 degrees per watt
> >
> >30W would be approx 510F
> >35W would be approx 595F
> >
> > So according to what you said: 600F seems to be around 37 
> Watts or so 
> >if my simple calculations are enough to correlate it which 
> and would be about right for SMD work.
> >
> >If there is an engineer available please verify or smash my thinking.
> >
> >
> >Bob AD5VJ
> >
> >> -----Original Message-----
> >> From: Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com
> >> [mailto:Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of bverstelle
> >> Sent: Thursday, October 15, 2009 11:14 PM
> >> To: Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com
> >> Subject: [Homebrew_PCBs] Re: SMD soldering
> >> 
> >> Hi Bob,
> >> I don't think you would want to use 200 watts to solder 
> smd's with, 
> >> 15 watts is more than enough. I have Weller station and my dial is 
> >> calibrated in temp not watts. I keep it about 600 degrees 
> unless I'm 
> >> trying to solder to a large ground plane.
> >> I like to have a iron a little on the hot side it puts 
> less stress on 
> >> the parts by flowing solder faster and getting off quicker than to 
> >> slowly heat things up. Check your iron I can't believe it is 200 
> >> watts.
> >> 73, Bill N7OQ
> >> 
> >> --- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, "AD5VJ  Bob" 
> <rtnmi@...> wrote:
> >> >
> >> > I am trying to establish what temperature I should use 
> for my SMD 
> >> > parts soldering. My Iron is a Weller and has temperature
> >> not wattage readout.
> >> > 
> >> > As I understand it the wattage should be around 200 for smd
> >> parts. What temp F does that correlate to?
> >> > 
> >> > Bob AD5VJ
> >> >
> >> 
> >> 
> >> 
> >> 
> >> ------------------------------------
> >> 
> >> Be sure to visit the group home and check for new Links, 
> Files, and 
> >> Photos:
> >> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Homebrew_PCBsYahoo! Groups Links
> >> 
> >> 
> >> 
> >
> >
> >
> >------------------------------------
> >
> >Be sure to visit the group home and check for new Links, 
> Files, and Photos:
> >http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Homebrew_PCBsYahoo! Groups Links
> >
> >
> >
> 
> 
> ------------------------------------
> 
> Be sure to visit the group home and check for new Links, 
> Files, and Photos:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Homebrew_PCBsYahoo! Groups Links
> 
> 
>

I only want to add that flux and flux smoke can aid in finding the
correct temperature.
When soldering there should be just a little smoke from the flux, but
not so much that all the flux is burned away upon contact.
You can try how long it takes until the solder stops smoking - it must
be well longer than you would take to make a joint.

Again this is not precise, because solder comes with different amounts
and types of flux, but it gives a good indication.

600 to 700 F (around 350C) is where you usually want to be for leaded
solder, more like 750F for leadfree solder.

Did you know that soldering irons were once more correctly called
soldering coppers in the US? I spotted this recently in an old
telephone company tool care manual.
I wonder why the name iron persisted.

ST

On Fri, Oct 16, 2009 at 7:01 AM, Harvey White <madyn@...> wrote:
> On Thu, 15 Oct 2009 23:39:37 -0500, you wrote:
>
>>Hi Bill
>>
>>Thanks for your input
>>
>>I meant to write 200 F not watts.
>
> Ok, you need (obviously) enough heat to melt the solder, and enough
> reserve (wattage) to heat the mass of the connection and keep it hot.
>
> The reason people say to use a 30 watt or smaller iron when soldering
> electronics is that those irons do not feature adjustable temperature.
> The smaller wattage gives you a smaller tip, and hopefully you won't
> take a welding torch to the project by using the iron.
>
> You want to go for temperature.  600 to 700 is about right.  You can
> start off low, then inch it up as you experiment to adjust it for the
> right temperature.  Low enough for a good solder joint, not so high
> that the part overheats.
>
> Harvey
>
>
>>
>>My station is a Weller WESD51. I found a manual for it and downloaded it and all it tells me is that it is a 50W station with an
>>adjustable setting of 350-850 F.
>>
>>So even though it is not telling me temp to watt settings, I am assuming that means at the highest temperature of 850F it delivers
>>50W to the tip.
>>
>>So to my way of thinking assuming it is a linear progression and simple math will suffice:
>>
>>850F/50W= 17 degrees per watt
>>
>>30W would be approx 510F
>>35W would be approx 595F
>>
>> So according to what you said: 600F seems to be around 37 Watts or so if my simple calculations are enough to correlate it which
>>and would be about right for SMD work.
>>
>>If there is an engineer available please verify or smash my thinking.
>>
>>
>>Bob AD5VJ
>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com
>>> [mailto:Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of bverstelle
>>> Sent: Thursday, October 15, 2009 11:14 PM
>>> To: Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com
>>> Subject: [Homebrew_PCBs] Re: SMD soldering
>>>
>>> Hi Bob,
>>> I don't think you would want to use 200 watts to solder smd's
>>> with, 15 watts is more than enough. I have Weller station and
>>> my dial is calibrated in temp not watts. I keep it about 600
>>> degrees unless I'm trying to solder to a large ground plane.
>>> I like to have a iron a little on the hot side it puts less
>>> stress on the parts by flowing solder faster and getting off
>>> quicker than to slowly heat things up. Check your iron I
>>> can't believe it is 200 watts.
>>> 73, Bill N7OQ
>>>
>>> --- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, "AD5VJ  Bob" <rtnmi@...> wrote:
>>> >
>>> > I am trying to establish what temperature I should use for my SMD
>>> > parts soldering. My Iron is a Weller and has temperature
>>> not wattage readout.
>>> >
>>> > As I understand it the wattage should be around 200 for smd
>>> parts. What temp F does that correlate to?
>>> >
>>> > Bob AD5VJ
>>> >
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> ------------------------------------
>>>
>>> Be sure to visit the group home and check for new Links,
>>> Files, and Photos:
>>> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Homebrew_PCBsYahoo! Groups Links
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>>------------------------------------
>>
>>Be sure to visit the group home and check for new Links, Files, and Photos:
>>http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Homebrew_PCBsYahoo! Groups Links
>>
>>
>>
>
>
> ------------------------------------
>
> Be sure to visit the group home and check for new Links, Files, and Photos:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Homebrew_PCBsYahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>

Hi Stefan

No I was not aware of the different names. I once not long ago had a real soldering iron however. The type they actually used to
place in fire in order to heat up.

It was just as named a large piece of iron with a wooden handle. Now I certainly would not recommend that for SMD LOL

We have come a long long way in a short short time.

Bob AD5VJ 

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com 
> [mailto:Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Stefan Trethan
> Sent: Friday, October 16, 2009 1:09 AM
> To: Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: Re: [Homebrew_PCBs] Re: SMD soldering
> 
> I only want to add that flux and flux smoke can aid in 
> finding the correct temperature.
> When soldering there should be just a little smoke from the 
> flux, but not so much that all the flux is burned away upon contact.
> You can try how long it takes until the solder stops smoking 
> - it must be well longer than you would take to make a joint.
> 
> Again this is not precise, because solder comes with 
> different amounts and types of flux, but it gives a good indication.
> 
> 600 to 700 F (around 350C) is where you usually want to be 
> for leaded solder, more like 750F for leadfree solder.
> 
> Did you know that soldering irons were once more correctly 
> called soldering coppers in the US? I spotted this recently 
> in an old telephone company tool care manual.
> I wonder why the name iron persisted.
> 
> ST
> 
> 
> 
> On Fri, Oct 16, 2009 at 7:01 AM, Harvey White 
> <madyn@...> wrote:
> > On Thu, 15 Oct 2009 23:39:37 -0500, you wrote:
> >
> >>Hi Bill
> >>
> >>Thanks for your input
> >>
> >>I meant to write 200 F not watts.
> >
> > Ok, you need (obviously) enough heat to melt the solder, and enough 
> > reserve (wattage) to heat the mass of the connection and 
> keep it hot.
> >
> > The reason people say to use a 30 watt or smaller iron when 
> soldering 
> > electronics is that those irons do not feature adjustable 
> temperature.
> > The smaller wattage gives you a smaller tip, and hopefully 
> you won't 
> > take a welding torch to the project by using the iron.
> >
> > You want to go for temperature.  600 to 700 is about right. 
>  You can 
> > start off low, then inch it up as you experiment to adjust 
> it for the 
> > right temperature.  Low enough for a good solder joint, not so high 
> > that the part overheats.
> >
> > Harvey
> >
> >
> >>
> >>My station is a Weller WESD51. I found a manual for it and 
> downloaded 
> >>it and all it tells me is that it is a 50W station with an 
> adjustable setting of 350-850 F.
> >>
> >>So even though it is not telling me temp to watt settings, I am 
> >>assuming that means at the highest temperature of 850F it 
> delivers 50W to the tip.
> >>
> >>So to my way of thinking assuming it is a linear 
> progression and simple math will suffice:
> >>
> >>850F/50W= 17 degrees per watt
> >>
> >>30W would be approx 510F
> >>35W would be approx 595F
> >>
> >> So according to what you said: 600F seems to be around 37 
> Watts or so 
> >>if my simple calculations are enough to correlate it which 
> and would be about right for SMD work.
> >>
> >>If there is an engineer available please verify or smash my 
> thinking.
> >>
> >>
> >>Bob AD5VJ
> >>
> >>> -----Original Message-----
> >>> From: Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com
> >>> [mailto:Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of bverstelle
> >>> Sent: Thursday, October 15, 2009 11:14 PM
> >>> To: Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com
> >>> Subject: [Homebrew_PCBs] Re: SMD soldering
> >>>
> >>> Hi Bob,
> >>> I don't think you would want to use 200 watts to solder 
> smd's with, 
> >>> 15 watts is more than enough. I have Weller station and 
> my dial is 
> >>> calibrated in temp not watts. I keep it about 600 degrees 
> unless I'm 
> >>> trying to solder to a large ground plane.
> >>> I like to have a iron a little on the hot side it puts 
> less stress 
> >>> on the parts by flowing solder faster and getting off 
> quicker than 
> >>> to slowly heat things up. Check your iron I can't believe 
> it is 200 
> >>> watts.
> >>> 73, Bill N7OQ
> >>>
> >>> --- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, "AD5VJ  Bob" 
> <rtnmi@...> wrote:
> >>> >
> >>> > I am trying to establish what temperature I should use 
> for my SMD 
> >>> > parts soldering. My Iron is a Weller and has temperature
> >>> not wattage readout.
> >>> >
> >>> > As I understand it the wattage should be around 200 for smd
> >>> parts. What temp F does that correlate to?
> >>> >
> >>> > Bob AD5VJ
> >>> >
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> ------------------------------------
> >>>
> >>> Be sure to visit the group home and check for new Links, 
> Files, and 
> >>> Photos:
> >>> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Homebrew_PCBsYahoo! Groups Links
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>------------------------------------
> >>
> >>Be sure to visit the group home and check for new Links, 
> Files, and Photos:
> >>http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Homebrew_PCBsYahoo! Groups Links
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >
> >
> > ------------------------------------
> >
> > Be sure to visit the group home and check for new Links, 
> Files, and Photos:
> > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Homebrew_PCBsYahoo! Groups Links
> >
> >
> >
> >
> 
> 
> ------------------------------------
> 
> Be sure to visit the group home and check for new Links, 
> Files, and Photos:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Homebrew_PCBsYahoo! Groups Links
> 
> 
>

You sure it was iron, not copper? I have such a lump too, with a
wooden handle, but I've only ever seen copper ones.

ST

On Fri, Oct 16, 2009 at 8:17 AM, AD5VJ  Bob <rtnmi@...> wrote:
> Hi Stefan
>
> No I was not aware of the different names. I once not long ago had a real soldering iron however. The type they actually used to
> place in fire in order to heat up.
>
> It was just as named a large piece of iron with a wooden handle. Now I certainly would not recommend that for SMD LOL
>
> We have come a long long way in a short short time.
>

No not sure, it has been a while. Could have been copper though I know it heated up really fast and stayed that way for quiet a
while.

Bob AD5VJ 

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com 
> [mailto:Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Stefan Trethan
> Sent: Friday, October 16, 2009 1:53 AM
> To: Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: Re: [Homebrew_PCBs] Re: SMD soldering
> 
> You sure it was iron, not copper? I have such a lump too, 
> with a wooden handle, but I've only ever seen copper ones.
> 
> ST
> 
> On Fri, Oct 16, 2009 at 8:17 AM, AD5VJ  Bob 
> <rtnmi@...> wrote:
> > Hi Stefan
> >
> > No I was not aware of the different names. I once not long 
> ago had a 
> > real soldering iron however. The type they actually used to 
> place in fire in order to heat up.
> >
> > It was just as named a large piece of iron with a wooden 
> handle. Now I 
> > certainly would not recommend that for SMD LOL
> >
> > We have come a long long way in a short short time.
> >
> 
> 
> ------------------------------------
> 
> Be sure to visit the group home and check for new Links, 
> Files, and Photos:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Homebrew_PCBsYahoo! Groups Links
> 
> 
>

BELL SYSTEM PRACTICES
Plant Series
SECTION 075-160-301
Issue 2, August, 1961
AT&TCo Standard
SCREWDRIVERS
SELECTION, USE AND MAINTENANCE

<http://www.telephonecollectors.org/DocumentLibrary/BSPs/075Division/075-160-301.pdf>

Quote:

<Do not stick a screwdriver in either the
flame of a furnace or torch, or a pot of hot
solder, as this will destroy the temper of the tool.
Never use a screwdriver as a substitute for a
soldering copper.>

This is the only reference to a soldering copper I have ever seen, but
it immediately caught my eye since I always thought iron is the wrong
name.
Anyway, it's just odd that they would use a name that doesn't appear
to exist anywhere else.

ST

On Fri, Oct 16, 2009 at 9:54 AM, AD5VJ  Bob <rtnmi@...> wrote:
> No not sure, it has been a while. Could have been copper though I know it heated up really fast and stayed that way for quiet a
> while.
>
> Bob AD5VJ

I thought Wikipedia would have the answer, but it does not.

I'm guessing it predates soldering - as we have clothes "irons" (which  
may have actually been iron (wikipedia again deficient)) and the  
phrase "strike while the iron is hot" - which I take to mean a  
branding iron and they usually are iron 'cos that's what guys on farms  
have handy.

Just a generic phrase for hot metal from back when there weren't many  
around?

It's also just occurred to me that you'd want the handle to be iron  
because it doesn't transfer heat well, and it's probably a bit hard to  
fuse iron and copper manually.

PG

On 16/10/2009, at 7:38 PM, Stefan Trethan wrote:

> BELL SYSTEM PRACTICES
> Plant Series
> SECTION 075-160-301
> Issue 2, August, 1961
> AT&TCo Standard
> SCREWDRIVERS
> SELECTION, USE AND MAINTENANCE
>
> <http://www.telephonecollectors.org/DocumentLibrary/BSPs/075Division/075-160-301.pdf 
> >
>
> Quote:
>
> <Do not stick a screwdriver in either the
> flame of a furnace or torch, or a pot of hot
> solder, as this will destroy the temper of the tool.
> Never use a screwdriver as a substitute for a
> soldering copper.>
>
> This is the only reference to a soldering copper I have ever seen, but
> it immediately caught my eye since I always thought iron is the wrong
> name.
> Anyway, it's just odd that they would use a name that doesn't appear
> to exist anywhere else.
>
> ST
>
> On Fri, Oct 16, 2009 at 9:54 AM, AD5VJ Bob <rtnmi@...>  
> wrote:
> > No not sure, it has been a while. Could have been copper though I  
> know it heated up really fast and stayed that way for quiet a
> > while.
> >
> > Bob AD5VJ
>

> phrase "strike while the iron is hot" - which I take to mean a
> branding iron and they usually are iron 'cos that's what guys on farms
> have handy.

Strike as in hit with the hammer to form it, as once its cooling off
its not pliable..(blacksmiths phrase, then passed onto farm workers,
as blacksmiths were in existence before farm brands)

BELL SYSTEM PRACTICES
AT&TCo Standard
SECTION 075-001-011
Issue 8, September 1979
EQUIPMENT TEST LIST
TOOLS AND MATERIAL
MISCELLANEOUS APPARATUS

Specifically lists

075-190-501 (7/0) 4 ELECTRIC SOLDERING COPPERS AND IRONS-TEST AND MW 12M
INSPECTIONS

So they seem to make a difference between soldering coppers and
soldering irons. Sadly I can not find 075-190-501 which would possibly
explain it.

One can solder with iron so I suppose it is easily possible there were
really soldering "irons" giving the name, and modern (copper) tips are
still iron plated for long life, but I was surprised to find that the
term soldering copper did actually exist.


ST

----- Original Message ----- 

From: "Piers Goodhew" <piers@...>
To: <Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Friday, October 16, 2009 9:55 AM
Subject: soldering "iron", was Re: [Homebrew_PCBs] Re: SMD soldering


>I thought Wikipedia would have the answer, but it does not.
>
> I'm guessing it predates soldering - as we have clothes "irons" (which
> may have actually been iron (wikipedia again deficient)) and the
> phrase "strike while the iron is hot" - which I take to mean a
> branding iron and they usually are iron 'cos that's what guys on farms
> have handy.

That phrase relates to blacksmithing - the iron has to be hot when shaping 
it with a hammer.

Leon

Both copper and iron have been used to transfer heat from the source (flame or electric heater) to the joint.  Iron is very durable and holds a fair bit of heat (specific heat capacity of 0.46 J/g-K), while copper (specific heat capacity of 0.385 J/g-K) won't contaminate an electrical joint.  Iron (IIRC) requires special techniques to make the solder wet the surface, too.  Copper wets pretty easily so the heat transfer is easier to effect.

My father had a soldering iron that was iron; used it to sweat copper pipes when building the house.  As well as an alcohol blowlamp.

HTH,
Donald.

----- Original Message -----
From: "Stefan Trethan" <stefan_trethan@...>
To: "Homebrew PCBs" <Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Friday, October 16, 2009 4:38:05 AM (GMT-0500) Auto-Detected
Subject: Re: [Homebrew_PCBs] Re: SMD soldering

BELL SYSTEM PRACTICES
Plant Series
SECTION 075-160-301
Issue 2, August, 1961
AT&TCo Standard
SCREWDRIVERS
SELECTION, USE AND MAINTENANCE

<http://www.telephonecollectors.org/DocumentLibrary/BSPs/075Division/075-160-301.pdf>

Quote:

<Do not stick a screwdriver in either the
flame of a furnace or torch, or a pot of hot
solder, as this will destroy the temper of the tool.
Never use a screwdriver as a substitute for a
soldering copper.>

This is the only reference to a soldering copper I have ever seen, but
it immediately caught my eye since I always thought iron is the wrong
name.
Anyway, it's just odd that they would use a name that doesn't appear
to exist anywhere else.

ST


On Fri, Oct 16, 2009 at 9:54 AM, AD5VJ  Bob <rtnmi@...> wrote:
> No not sure, it has been a while. Could have been copper though I know it heated up really fast and stayed that way for quiet a
> while.
>
> Bob AD5VJ


------------------------------------

Be sure to visit the group home and check for new Links, Files, and Photos:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Homebrew_PCBsYahoo! Groups Links

It was in the USA that I first heard them referred to as a "Sodering Irons"  ..  I assumed at the time that it was a mistake and that "Soldering" was the only correct term..  I was assured though that in some parts of the US the term "Sodering" is quite common.

Chris

--- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, Piers Goodhew <piers@...> wrote:

>
> I thought Wikipedia would have the answer, but it does not.
> 
> I'm guessing it predates soldering - as we have clothes "irons" (which  
> may have actually been iron (wikipedia again deficient)) and the  
> phrase "strike while the iron is hot" - which I take to mean a  
> branding iron and they usually are iron 'cos that's what guys on farms  
> have handy.
> 
> Just a generic phrase for hot metal from back when there weren't many  
> around?
> 
> It's also just occurred to me that you'd want the handle to be iron  
> because it doesn't transfer heat well, and it's probably a bit hard to  
> fuse iron and copper manually.
> 
> PG
> 
> On 16/10/2009, at 7:38 PM, Stefan Trethan wrote:
> 
> > BELL SYSTEM PRACTICES
> > Plant Series
> > SECTION 075-160-301
> > Issue 2, August, 1961
> > AT&TCo Standard
> > SCREWDRIVERS
> > SELECTION, USE AND MAINTENANCE
> >
> > <http://www.telephonecollectors.org/DocumentLibrary/BSPs/075Division/075-160-301.pdf 
> > >
> >
> > Quote:
> >
> > <Do not stick a screwdriver in either the
> > flame of a furnace or torch, or a pot of hot
> > solder, as this will destroy the temper of the tool.
> > Never use a screwdriver as a substitute for a
> > soldering copper.>
> >
> > This is the only reference to a soldering copper I have ever seen, but
> > it immediately caught my eye since I always thought iron is the wrong
> > name.
> > Anyway, it's just odd that they would use a name that doesn't appear
> > to exist anywhere else.
> >
> > ST
> >
> > On Fri, Oct 16, 2009 at 9:54 AM, AD5VJ Bob <rtnmi@...>  
> > wrote:
> > > No not sure, it has been a while. Could have been copper though I  
> > know it heated up really fast and stayed that way for quiet a
> > > while.
> > >
> > > Bob AD5VJ
> >
>

Might be common, but as far as I can determine it's still just plain
wrong. I've also seen such abominations as "soddering".

Makes me shudder and think of that plumber who was on the "Dirty Jobs"
TV show (with Mike Rowe) and couldn't even tell what his solder was
made of. He did manage to read "lead free" off the label, so that's
something.

ST

On Fri, Oct 16, 2009 at 1:11 PM, chris <chris@...> wrote:
> It was in the USA that I first heard them referred to as a "Sodering Irons"  ..  I assumed at the time that it was a mistake and that "Soldering" was the only correct term..  I was assured though that in some parts of the US the term "Sodering" is quite common.
>
> Chris

On Fri, Oct 16, 2009 at 11:11:36AM -0000, chris wrote:
> It was in the USA that I first heard them referred to as a "Sodering 
> Irons" ..

I have some solder wick I bought from Farnell some time ago. The reel 
says "Made in the USA", and it says "Soder Wick" on the reel. It 
surprised me...

On Fri, 16 Oct 2009 19:55:24 +1100, you wrote:

>I thought Wikipedia would have the answer, but it does not.
>
>I'm guessing it predates soldering - as we have clothes "irons" (which  
>may have actually been iron (wikipedia again deficient)) and the  
>phrase "strike while the iron is hot" - which I take to mean a  
>branding iron and they usually are iron 'cos that's what guys on farms  
>have handy.

Clothes Irons were iron,  you wanted weight as well as heat.  Strike
while the iron is hot has more to do with blacksmithy than branding
cattle.  Why "strike" a cow?
>
>Just a generic phrase for hot metal from back when there weren't many  
>around?
>
>It's also just occurred to me that you'd want the handle to be iron  
>because it doesn't transfer heat well, and it's probably a bit hard to  
>fuse iron and copper manually.
>

You want the handle to be wood, which is an insulator.  Soldering
"coppers" are such because the copper can be tinned, which ensures a
better heat transfer from a compatible metal (tin/lead).


Harvey

>PG
>
>On 16/10/2009, at 7:38 PM, Stefan Trethan wrote:
>
>> BELL SYSTEM PRACTICES
>> Plant Series
>> SECTION 075-160-301
>> Issue 2, August, 1961
>> AT&TCo Standard
>> SCREWDRIVERS
>> SELECTION, USE AND MAINTENANCE
>>
>> <http://www.telephonecollectors.org/DocumentLibrary/BSPs/075Division/075-160-301.pdf 
>> >
>>
>> Quote:
>>
>> <Do not stick a screwdriver in either the
>> flame of a furnace or torch, or a pot of hot
>> solder, as this will destroy the temper of the tool.
>> Never use a screwdriver as a substitute for a
>> soldering copper.>
>>
>> This is the only reference to a soldering copper I have ever seen, but
>> it immediately caught my eye since I always thought iron is the wrong
>> name.
>> Anyway, it's just odd that they would use a name that doesn't appear
>> to exist anywhere else.
>>
>> ST
>>
>> On Fri, Oct 16, 2009 at 9:54 AM, AD5VJ Bob <rtnmi@...>  
>> wrote:
>> > No not sure, it has been a while. Could have been copper though I  
>> know it heated up really fast and stayed that way for quiet a
>> > while.
>> >
>> > Bob AD5VJ
>> 
>
>
>
>------------------------------------
>
>Be sure to visit the group home and check for new Links, Files, and Photos:
>http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Homebrew_PCBsYahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>

I would hope that was an intentional misspelling to make it trademark-able (is that a word?), kind of like "No-Korode".

Donald.

----- Original Message -----
From: "Dylan Smith" <dyls@...>
To: "Homebrew PCBs" <Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Friday, October 16, 2009 8:34:41 AM GMT -05:00 US/Canada Eastern
Subject: Re: soldering "iron", was Re: [Homebrew_PCBs] Re: SMD soldering

On Fri, Oct 16, 2009 at 11:11:36AM -0000, chris wrote:
> It was in the USA that I first heard them referred to as a "Sodering 
> Irons" ..

I have some solder wick I bought from Farnell some time ago. The reel 
says "Made in the USA", and it says "Soder Wick" on the reel. It 
surprised me...

It's curious as to why 'soldering' becomes 'sodering' in the USA. I had colleagues in the Michigan area that were incapable (apparently) of saying the 'l' in solder.

--- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, "chris" <chris@...> wrote:

>
> It was in the USA that I first heard them referred to as a "Sodering Irons"  ..  I assumed at the time that it was a mistake and that "Soldering" was the only correct term..  I was assured though that in some parts of the US the term "Sodering" is quite common.
> 
> Chris
> 
> --- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, Piers Goodhew <piers@> wrote:
> >
> > I thought Wikipedia would have the answer, but it does not.
> > 
> > I'm guessing it predates soldering - as we have clothes "irons" (which  
> > may have actually been iron (wikipedia again deficient)) and the  
> > phrase "strike while the iron is hot" - which I take to mean a  
> > branding iron and they usually are iron 'cos that's what guys on farms  
> > have handy.
> > 
> > Just a generic phrase for hot metal from back when there weren't many  
> > around?
> > 
> > It's also just occurred to me that you'd want the handle to be iron  
> > because it doesn't transfer heat well, and it's probably a bit hard to  
> > fuse iron and copper manually.
> > 
> > PG
> > 
> > On 16/10/2009, at 7:38 PM, Stefan Trethan wrote:
> > 
> > > BELL SYSTEM PRACTICES
> > > Plant Series
> > > SECTION 075-160-301
> > > Issue 2, August, 1961
> > > AT&TCo Standard
> > > SCREWDRIVERS
> > > SELECTION, USE AND MAINTENANCE
> > >
> > > <http://www.telephonecollectors.org/DocumentLibrary/BSPs/075Division/075-160-301.pdf 
> > > >
> > >
> > > Quote:
> > >
> > > <Do not stick a screwdriver in either the
> > > flame of a furnace or torch, or a pot of hot
> > > solder, as this will destroy the temper of the tool.
> > > Never use a screwdriver as a substitute for a
> > > soldering copper.>
> > >
> > > This is the only reference to a soldering copper I have ever seen, but
> > > it immediately caught my eye since I always thought iron is the wrong
> > > name.
> > > Anyway, it's just odd that they would use a name that doesn't appear
> > > to exist anywhere else.
> > >
> > > ST
> > >
> > > On Fri, Oct 16, 2009 at 9:54 AM, AD5VJ Bob <rtnmi@>  
> > > wrote:
> > > > No not sure, it has been a while. Could have been copper though I  
> > > know it heated up really fast and stayed that way for quiet a
> > > > while.
> > > >
> > > > Bob AD5VJ
> > >
> >
>

Are you referring to spelling or pronunciation?

I've found that quite a few people struggle with spelling, and sometimes it changes pronunciation. One of my pet peeves is people saying "mute point". And they think it -means- "mute" as in silent.

If you mean pronunciation, I've always heard it pronounced with a silent "l".

Steve Greenfield

--- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, "chris" <chris@...> wrote:

>
> It was in the USA that I first heard them referred to as a "Sodering Irons"  ..  I assumed at the time that it was a mistake and that "Soldering" was the only correct term..  I was assured though that in some parts of the US the term "Sodering" is quite common.
> 
> Chris
>

--- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, Harvey White <madyn@...> wrote:
>
> On Fri, 16 Oct 2009 19:55:24 +1100, you wrote:
> 
> >I thought Wikipedia would have the answer, but it does not.
> >
> >I'm guessing it predates soldering - as we have clothes "irons" (which  
> >may have actually been iron (wikipedia again deficient)) and the  
> >phrase "strike while the iron is hot" - which I take to mean a  
> >branding iron and they usually are iron 'cos that's what guys on farms  
> >have handy.
> 
> Clothes Irons were iron,  you wanted weight as well as heat.  Strike
> while the iron is hot has more to do with blacksmithy than branding
> cattle.  Why "strike" a cow?

Copper is heavier than iron. But copper oxidizes more easily, is harder to find, and is more expensive. And I suspect it would leave marks on the clothing.

As to "striking" a cow, strike has more than one meaning, not necessarily violent.

However, I suspect it is more of a blacksmith term.

> >Just a generic phrase for hot metal from back when there weren't many  
> >around?
> >
> >It's also just occurred to me that you'd want the handle to be iron  
> >because it doesn't transfer heat well, and it's probably a bit hard to  
> >fuse iron and copper manually.
> >
> 
> You want the handle to be wood, which is an insulator.  Soldering
> "coppers" are such because the copper can be tinned, which ensures a
> better heat transfer from a compatible metal (tin/lead).

Yes, iron transfers heat quite well, just not as well as copper. I have cast iron pans, I have to use a mitt to handle them. I'm certain the handles don't get as hot as they would if they were all copper, but they get too hot to handle and that is with a pan that is well below soldering temperature.

Steve Greenfield

I've never pronounced the "l" and have rarely heard anyone else pronounce it that way. USA from New York to Florida to California to Washington (state). So I don't think it is just some parts of the USA.

A search for solder definition yields many websites that define the pronunciation with a silent "l", with a few that specifically mention a British pronunciation with a spoken "l". So once again, we're separated by a common language.

On the other hand, I can say "art" and no one thinks I meant "ought". 

;')

Steve Greenfield

--- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, "bjones6uk" <bjones6uk@...> wrote:

>
> It's curious as to why 'soldering' becomes 'sodering' in the USA. I had colleagues in the Michigan area that were incapable (apparently) of saying the 'l' in solder.
> 
> --- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, "chris" <chris@> wrote:
> >
> > It was in the USA that I first heard them referred to as a "Sodering Irons"  ..  I assumed at the time that it was a mistake and that "Soldering" was the only correct term..  I was assured though that in some parts of the US the term "Sodering" is quite common.
> > 
> > Chris
> >

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/soldering - definition
http://www.merriam-webster.com/cgi-bin/audio.pl?solder02=soldering -
enunciation

Without the L being emphisized seems to be the way the
Dictionary of the American Language seems to enunciate it also.
That may be just one of those differences 'across the pond'.
><> ... Jack


On Fri, Oct 16, 2009 at 8:45 AM, bjones6uk <bjones6uk@...> wrote:

> It's curious as to why 'soldering' becomes 'sodering' in the USA. I had
> colleagues in the Michigan area that were incapable (apparently) of saying
> the 'l' in solder.
>
> --- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, "chris" <chris@...> wrote:
> >
> > It was in the USA that I first heard them referred to as a "Sodering
> Irons"  ..  I assumed at the time that it was a mistake and that "Soldering"
> was the only correct term..  I was assured though that in some parts of the
> US the term "Sodering" is quite common.
> >
> > Chris
> >
> > --- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, Piers Goodhew <piers@> wrote:
> > >
> > > I thought Wikipedia would have the answer, but it does not.
> > >
> > > I'm guessing it predates soldering - as we have clothes "irons" (which
> > > may have actually been iron (wikipedia again deficient)) and the
> > > phrase "strike while the iron is hot" - which I take to mean a
> > > branding iron and they usually are iron 'cos that's what guys on farms
> > > have handy.
> > >
> > > Just a generic phrase for hot metal from back when there weren't many
> > > around?
> > >
> > > It's also just occurred to me that you'd want the handle to be iron
> > > because it doesn't transfer heat well, and it's probably a bit hard to
> > > fuse iron and copper manually.
> > >
> > > PG
> > >
> > > On 16/10/2009, at 7:38 PM, Stefan Trethan wrote:
> > >
> > > > BELL SYSTEM PRACTICES
> > > > Plant Series
> > > > SECTION 075-160-301
> > > > Issue 2, August, 1961
> > > > AT&TCo Standard
> > > > SCREWDRIVERS
> > > > SELECTION, USE AND MAINTENANCE
> > > >
> > > > <
> http://www.telephonecollectors.org/DocumentLibrary/BSPs/075Division/075-160-301.pdf
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > > Quote:
> > > >
> > > > <Do not stick a screwdriver in either the
> > > > flame of a furnace or torch, or a pot of hot
> > > > solder, as this will destroy the temper of the tool.
> > > > Never use a screwdriver as a substitute for a
> > > > soldering copper.>
> > > >
> > > > This is the only reference to a soldering copper I have ever seen,
> but
> > > > it immediately caught my eye since I always thought iron is the wrong
> > > > name.
> > > > Anyway, it's just odd that they would use a name that doesn't appear
> > > > to exist anywhere else.
> > > >
> > > > ST
> > > >
> > > > On Fri, Oct 16, 2009 at 9:54 AM, AD5VJ Bob <rtnmi@>
> > > > wrote:
> > > > > No not sure, it has been a while. Could have been copper though I
> > > > know it heated up really fast and stayed that way for quiet a
> > > > > while.
> > > > >
> > > > > Bob AD5VJ
> > > >
> > >
> >
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------
>
> Be sure to visit the group home and check for new Links, Files, and Photos:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Homebrew_PCBsYahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

>
> On the other hand, I can say "art" and no one thinks I meant "ought".

Well I should hope not as one should sound like 'heart' and one like
'bought' but without the B

But Its either sold-her or sold-are, but never sodder, that breaks the
rules surely, drop a not to her majesty etc she can sort ot all
out.....

Ideas to add:
I saw a cool ( not SMD ) heavy duty soldering rig on How-Its-Made, where 
they were making decorative birdcages. They had a propane(map?) torch
and had made a big wedge out of copper or brass that was perpendicular 
to the flame. This was mounted on the end of the torch tip
about 3/4" away so the flame heated the wedge. looked like a great idea 
for soldering chassis connections or large items.  -Lee studley


__________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus signature database 4515 (20091016) __________

The message was checked by ESET Smart Security.

http://www.eset.com

2009/10/16 Jack <jack@...>:
> http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/soldering - definition
> http://www.merriam-webster.com/cgi-bin/audio.pl?solder02=soldering -
> enunciation
>
> Without the L being emphisized seems to be the way the
> Dictionary of the American Language seems to enunciate it also.
> That may be just one of those differences 'across the pond'.

Yes but where is the origin of the word, surely the origin of the word
should dictate how its pronounced, thats how it works when other
countries tend to adopt words, i'm sure 'computer' is universal, even
in china, where the word was not invented..

So by that merit, if the art of soldering was invented where its
pronounced as soddering, then soddering it is, if it originates from
another country or time that pronounces the 'L', then some dictionary
has got it wrong....

Isn't 350C a bit high for leaded solder?  I thought 60/40 leaded solder
melts around 183C: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Solder
Lead free seems to be around 220ish.

On my temp controlled iron I set it to 250C and it melts almost
immediately.  I think 350C would burn the board much easier.

Also I push the idea again to buy the 825D hot air gun and soldering iron
combo.  I set the hot air to 300C and the iron to 250C and it works great.
At $100 you can't lose.

If you have a temp controlled iron, it's one of those things where you just
turn the dial to see what works and when it does you don't need to fiddle
with it anymore.

Also the hot air gun + paste is so much better than the soldering iron for
SMD.  Paste is around $20 for a syringe and the iron/air gun is $100 so
that's pretty affordable.  Cheaper than a few overcooked chips and lifted
pads for sure.  http://www.zeph.com/zephpaste.htm has a video showing how
effortless it is with the hot air gun but you don't need the hot air heater
below - hot air alone is enough.

For a microscope, I have a stereo Nikon SMZ with a boom arm.  I bought it
off ebay for around $300 but I think it's a $2000+ microscope new so there
are good deals to be had.  Beautiful optics.

On Thu, Oct 15, 2009 at 11:09 PM, Stefan Trethan <stefan_trethan@...>wrote:

>
>
> I only want to add that flux and flux smoke can aid in finding the
> correct temperature.
> When soldering there should be just a little smoke from the flux, but
> not so much that all the flux is burned away upon contact.
> You can try how long it takes until the solder stops smoking - it must
> be well longer than you would take to make a joint.
>
> Again this is not precise, because solder comes with different amounts
> and types of flux, but it gives a good indication.
>
> 600 to 700 F (around 350C) is where you usually want to be for leaded
> solder, more like 750F for leadfree solder.
>
> Did you know that soldering irons were once more correctly called
> soldering coppers in the US? I spotted this recently in an old
> telephone company tool care manual.
> I wonder why the name iron persisted.
>
> ST
>
>
> On Fri, Oct 16, 2009 at 7:01 AM, Harvey White <madyn@...<madyn%40embarqmail.com>>
> wrote:
> > On Thu, 15 Oct 2009 23:39:37 -0500, you wrote:
> >
> >>Hi Bill
> >>
> >>Thanks for your input
> >>
> >>I meant to write 200 F not watts.
> >
> > Ok, you need (obviously) enough heat to melt the solder, and enough
> > reserve (wattage) to heat the mass of the connection and keep it hot.
> >
> > The reason people say to use a 30 watt or smaller iron when soldering
> > electronics is that those irons do not feature adjustable temperature.
> > The smaller wattage gives you a smaller tip, and hopefully you won't
> > take a welding torch to the project by using the iron.
> >
> > You want to go for temperature.  600 to 700 is about right.  You can
> > start off low, then inch it up as you experiment to adjust it for the
> > right temperature.  Low enough for a good solder joint, not so high
> > that the part overheats.
> >
> > Harvey
> >
> >
> >>
> >>My station is a Weller WESD51. I found a manual for it and downloaded it
> and all it tells me is that it is a 50W station with an
> >>adjustable setting of 350-850 F.
> >>
> >>So even though it is not telling me temp to watt settings, I am assuming
> that means at the highest temperature of 850F it delivers
> >>50W to the tip.
> >>
> >>So to my way of thinking assuming it is a linear progression and simple
> math will suffice:
> >>
> >>850F/50W= 17 degrees per watt
> >>
> >>30W would be approx 510F
> >>35W would be approx 595F
> >>
> >> So according to what you said: 600F seems to be around 37 Watts or so if
> my simple calculations are enough to correlate it which
> >>and would be about right for SMD work.
> >>
> >>If there is an engineer available please verify or smash my thinking.
> >>
> >>
> >>Bob AD5VJ
> >>
> >>> -----Original Message-----
> >>> From: Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com <Homebrew_PCBs%40yahoogroups.com>
> >>> [mailto:Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com<Homebrew_PCBs%40yahoogroups.com>]
> On Behalf Of bverstelle
> >>> Sent: Thursday, October 15, 2009 11:14 PM
> >>> To: Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com <Homebrew_PCBs%40yahoogroups.com>
> >>> Subject: [Homebrew_PCBs] Re: SMD soldering
> >>>
> >>> Hi Bob,
> >>> I don't think you would want to use 200 watts to solder smd's
> >>> with, 15 watts is more than enough. I have Weller station and
> >>> my dial is calibrated in temp not watts. I keep it about 600
> >>> degrees unless I'm trying to solder to a large ground plane.
> >>> I like to have a iron a little on the hot side it puts less
> >>> stress on the parts by flowing solder faster and getting off
> >>> quicker than to slowly heat things up. Check your iron I
> >>> can't believe it is 200 watts.
> >>> 73, Bill N7OQ
> >>>
> >>> --- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com <Homebrew_PCBs%40yahoogroups.com>,
> "AD5VJ  Bob" <rtnmi@...> wrote:
> >>> >
> >>> > I am trying to establish what temperature I should use for my SMD
> >>> > parts soldering. My Iron is a Weller and has temperature
> >>> not wattage readout.
> >>> >
> >>> > As I understand it the wattage should be around 200 for smd
> >>> parts. What temp F does that correlate to?
> >>> >
> >>> > Bob AD5VJ
> >>> >
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> ------------------------------------
> >>>
> >>> Be sure to visit the group home and check for new Links,
> >>> Files, and Photos:
> >>> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Homebrew_PCBsYahoo! Groups Links
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>------------------------------------
> >>
> >>Be sure to visit the group home and check for new Links, Files, and
> Photos:
> >>http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Homebrew_PCBsYahoo! Groups Links
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >
> >
> > ------------------------------------
> >
> > Be sure to visit the group home and check for new Links, Files, and
> Photos:
> > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Homebrew_PCBsYahoo! Groups Links
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
> 
>


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

>> It was in the USA that I first heard them referred to as a "Sodering 
>> Irons"  ..  I assumed at the time that it was a mistake and that 
>> "Soldering" was the only correct term..  I was assured though that in 
>> some parts of the US the term "Sodering" is quite common.

Well, I'm from the West Coast, and I've always said 'soder' and 'sodered' 
and 'sodering', as has everyone I've heard use the term. You mean the 'l' 
ISN'T silent? ;-)

Only place I've heard 'solder' was in England. But then, they also say 
al-u-min-e-yum (or something like that). ;;))

Ron Yost

From Online Etymology Dictionary:
http://www.etymonline.com/index.php?term=solder

Solder

c.1350, sawd, from O.Fr. soldure, from solder "to join with solder," from L. 
solidare "to make solid," from solidus "solid" (see solid). Modern form is 
from c.1420. The -l- is still pronounced in Great Britain. The noun is first 
attested 1374.

Soder-on. :)
Ron Yost

You are right, the melting point of solder is below 200C. But with
manual soldering it is not enough to just reach that melting point,
the whole joint area must be elevated above that temperature and that
in a short amount of time (overall soldering time should not exceed 5
seconds). The soldering process is very complex, it's not just a
matter of putting material down, the surfaces must be wetted and
cleaned by the flux, the solder must flow correctly and cool uniformly
without forming a cold joint. I'm no expert on soldering so I can't
explain what happens physically but I know that the iron must be well
hotter than the melting point for best results.

250C is definitely towards the low end, I don't think I could work at
that temperature. If the temperature is too low, the flux does not
clean as well and the solder tends to bridge a lot (in fact if I need
to make a solder bridge somewhere I switch the iron off and let it
cool a little. 300C is probably where I would feel comfortable working
with, but 350C also allows me to work reasonably well on leadfree
soldered production boards. This temperature does not damage PCBs or
components.

Of course it also depends on tip geometry, and joint size, how well
any one temperature will work. But if you read for example the guide
to better soldering by Weller they also write of 700 to 800F as the
usual range.


ST

On Fri, Oct 16, 2009 at 6:52 PM, Henry Liu <henryjliu@...> wrote:
> Isn't 350C a bit high for leaded solder?  I thought 60/40 leaded solder
> melts around 183C: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Solder
> Lead free seems to be around 220ish.
>
> On my temp controlled iron I set it to 250C and it melts almost
> immediately.  I think 350C would burn the board much easier.
>
> Also I push the idea again to buy the 825D hot air gun and soldering iron
> combo.  I set the hot air to 300C and the iron to 250C and it works great.
> At $100 you can't lose.
>
> If you have a temp controlled iron, it's one of those things where you just
> turn the dial to see what works and when it does you don't need to fiddle
> with it anymore.
>
> Also the hot air gun + paste is so much better than the soldering iron for
> SMD.  Paste is around $20 for a syringe and the iron/air gun is $100 so
> that's pretty affordable.  Cheaper than a few overcooked chips and lifted
> pads for sure.  http://www.zeph.com/zephpaste.htm has a video showing how
> effortless it is with the hot air gun but you don't need the hot air heater
> below - hot air alone is enough.
>
> For a microscope, I have a stereo Nikon SMZ with a boom arm.  I bought it
> off ebay for around $300 but I think it's a $2000+ microscope new so there
> are good deals to be had.  Beautiful optics.
>

You can purchase soldering attachments for some propane or butane
torches. It is a chunk of copper supported by some means in front of
the flame.
<http://aycu12.webshots.com/image/50771/2003619327040034187_rs.jpg>
<https://www.steetz.com/catalog/images/S14_1.jpg>

I find that I can solder just about everything short of copper pipe
fittings with the largest tip on my 80W station, and everything larger
I solder with a direct flame instead of an iron.

There are also huge electrical irons, like this 550W one
<http://www.ersa-shop.com/images/products/0550MZ.JPG>, and I had one
even larger that looked more like a hatchet than an iron (power
unknown, electrical safety in question due to age so I never tried
it).

ST

On Fri, Oct 16, 2009 at 6:32 PM, Lee Studley <indigo_red@...> wrote:
> Ideas to add:
> I saw a cool ( not SMD ) heavy duty soldering rig on How-Its-Made, where
> they were making decorative birdcages. They had a propane(map?) torch
> and had made a big wedge out of copper or brass that was perpendicular
> to the flame. This was mounted on the end of the torch tip
> about 3/4" away so the flame heated the wedge. looked like a great idea
> for soldering chassis connections or large items.  -Lee studley
>

I'm pretty sure one could easily model the process with the heat equation:
du/dt= K * grad2 u = 0

However the basic idea is that either it works or it doesn't.  If it doesn't
just turn up the temperature until it does.  That's why a high wattage
temperature controlled iron is useful.  If it senses the tip dropping below
the set temperature then the power kicks in and heats it fast until it does
but the total temperature doesn't exceed the max set.

I think that's a lot better than having a hot iron with no temperature
feedback loop.

I burned a lot of soldermask and lifted a lot of pads with the $10-30 irons
from radioshack.  $100 to get the temperature controlled one (with the hot
air) was way better.

On Fri, Oct 16, 2009 at 11:30 AM, Stefan Trethan <stefan_trethan@...>wrote:

>
>
> You are right, the melting point of solder is below 200C. But with
> manual soldering it is not enough to just reach that melting point,
> the whole joint area must be elevated above that temperature and that
> in a short amount of time (overall soldering time should not exceed 5
> seconds). The soldering process is very complex, it's not just a
> matter of putting material down, the surfaces must be wetted and
> cleaned by the flux, the solder must flow correctly and cool uniformly
> without forming a cold joint. I'm no expert on soldering so I can't
> explain what happens physically but I know that the iron must be well
> hotter than the melting point for best results.
>
> 250C is definitely towards the low end, I don't think I could work at
> that temperature. If the temperature is too low, the flux does not
> clean as well and the solder tends to bridge a lot (in fact if I need
> to make a solder bridge somewhere I switch the iron off and let it
> cool a little. 300C is probably where I would feel comfortable working
> with, but 350C also allows me to work reasonably well on leadfree
> soldered production boards. This temperature does not damage PCBs or
> components.
>
> Of course it also depends on tip geometry, and joint size, how well
> any one temperature will work. But if you read for example the guide
> to better soldering by Weller they also write of 700 to 800F as the
> usual range.
>
> ST
>
> On Fri, Oct 16, 2009 at 6:52 PM, Henry Liu <henryjliu@...<henryjliu%40gmail.com>>
> wrote:
> > Isn't 350C a bit high for leaded solder?  I thought 60/40 leaded solder
> > melts around 183C: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Solder
> > Lead free seems to be around 220ish.
> >
> > On my temp controlled iron I set it to 250C and it melts almost
> > immediately.  I think 350C would burn the board much easier.
> >
> > Also I push the idea again to buy the 825D hot air gun and soldering iron
> > combo.  I set the hot air to 300C and the iron to 250C and it works
> great.
> > At $100 you can't lose.
> >
> > If you have a temp controlled iron, it's one of those things where you
> just
> > turn the dial to see what works and when it does you don't need to fiddle
> > with it anymore.
> >
> > Also the hot air gun + paste is so much better than the soldering iron
> for
> > SMD.  Paste is around $20 for a syringe and the iron/air gun is $100 so
> > that's pretty affordable.  Cheaper than a few overcooked chips and lifted
> > pads for sure.  http://www.zeph.com/zephpaste.htm has a video showing
> how
> > effortless it is with the hot air gun but you don't need the hot air
> heater
> > below - hot air alone is enough.
> >
> > For a microscope, I have a stereo Nikon SMZ with a boom arm.  I bought it
> > off ebay for around $300 but I think it's a $2000+ microscope new so
> there
> > are good deals to be had.  Beautiful optics.
> >
>
> 
>


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

I prefer the term "International English" ;-)

It's not just in the UK that they pronounce it anyway.

PG

On 17/10/2009, at 5:23 AM, Ron Yost wrote:

> From Online Etymology Dictionary:
> http://www.etymonline.com/index.php?term=solder
>
> Solder
>
> c.1350, sawd, from O.Fr. soldure, from solder "to join with solder,"  
> from L.
> solidare "to make solid," from solidus "solid" (see solid). Modern  
> form is
> from c.1420. The -l- is still pronounced in Great Britain. The noun  
> is first
> attested 1374.
>
> Soder-on. :)
> Ron Yost
>
>

2009/10/16 Piers Goodhew <piers@...>:
> I prefer the term "International English" ;-)
>
> It's not just in the UK that they pronounce it anyway.

Is it not, oh, but is it only in america its prounced with a silent L
? as f its origination is french, then it would have had the L, we all
know how the french like the L's, oo la la, le, la, etc

The old fashioned soldering Irons had a big piece of copper, pointed to aid soldering, held in an iron shaft, becasue iron transfers heat much slower than copper, pressed into a wooden handle.

Strike while the Iron's hot is what a blacksmith must do to shape and weld iron - only when really hot!!! If the iron cooled down, shaping and welding were impossible....

Greetings from

Andy Mathison

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Yes, I fully agree. I don't think one can really solder properly with
the unregulated ones, it's like metallic hot glue at best.

You are right it's something one must try to find the ideal setting,
without being afraid of a little temperature. The components are made
for it, and stresses might actually be lower if soldering time is
reduced.

I'm not sure how accurate the hot air thermostat is, it shows like
100C right when I switch it on.  Maybe you want to check the soldering
iron to see if the indicated temperature is precise (if you have no
suitable thermometer slowly increase the temperature until solder with
known melting point gets soft). It doesn't matter if you always use
the same setting, but we couldn't compare numbers if they are off.

ST

On Fri, Oct 16, 2009 at 9:32 PM, Henry Liu <henryjliu@...> wrote:
> I'm pretty sure one could easily model the process with the heat equation:
> du/dt= K * grad2 u = 0
>
> However the basic idea is that either it works or it doesn't.  If it doesn't
> just turn up the temperature until it does.  That's why a high wattage
> temperature controlled iron is useful.  If it senses the tip dropping below
> the set temperature then the power kicks in and heats it fast until it does
> but the total temperature doesn't exceed the max set.
>
> I think that's a lot better than having a hot iron with no temperature
> feedback loop.
>
> I burned a lot of soldermask and lifted a lot of pads with the $10-30 irons
> from radioshack.  $100 to get the temperature controlled one (with the hot
> air) was way better.
>

If you are speaking English, the "L" is not silent, if you are speaking American, its whatever you Guys want........Languages change:- Eether or eyether, neether or neyether etc (speeling phonetically......

Greetings from

Andy Mathison

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

I have followed that thread and it made me laugh a lot. I'm a French native living in America since the mid 80's, so I have seen both sides of the story, and I have been an electronic engineer for more than 35 years.

America always assume that just because some do it, it is ok to butcher the English language. 
Even the etymology online listed before has missing info has the old french verb "solder" and noun "soldure" have evolved in France to become now the noun "soudure" and the verb "souder" while english use "solder" for both. Soldering irons (really made of iron heated by fire) were used long before electronic manufacturing, to solder copper pipes with lead for indoor plumbing (side note: plumbing derive from french "plomb" for lead (Pb in chemistry)), hence the more modern butane heated soldering irons.
  When I was a little kid, I remember the blacksmith making steel tools by forgeing them with a hammer on an anvil. That's where the "strike the iron while it is hot" comes from, as the iron needed to be bright red almost white to be soft enough to be hammered into the proper shape.
I had never realized that people used "soder wick" for desoldering wick because "SODER" was the most known brand name until I had to purchase large quantity of wick for my job here in the US.

Just my two cents.
Jean-Paul Louis  

--- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, "Andrew Mathison" <andrewdavid.mathison@...> wrote:

>
> 
> 
> If you are speaking English, the "L" is not silent, if you are speaking American, its whatever you Guys want........Languages change:- Eether or eyether, neether or neyether etc (speeling phonetically......
> 
> Greetings from
> 
> Andy Mathison
> 
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

So I assume the British based English language (South Africa, New Zealand,
Australia, Former USSR, etc) also pronounce the L as well?

If so, I assume it depends on which version of English was prevalent as the
areas were brought into the English speaking world.

><> ... Jack


On Sat, Oct 17, 2009 at 2:19 AM, Andrew Mathison <
andrewdavid.mathison@...> wrote:

>
>
> If you are speaking English, the "L" is not silent, if you are speaking
> American, its whatever you Guys want........Languages change:- Eether or
> eyether, neether or neyether etc (speeling phonetically......
>
> Greetings from
>
> Andy Mathison
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------
>
> Be sure to visit the group home and check for new Links, Files, and Photos:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Homebrew_PCBsYahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

I assume that too, but I would let them speak for themselves.....


Greetings from

Andy Mathison

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

I think the problem, if thats the right name, has been found, it would appear that soldering products are/were sold in the USA under the name Soder.......that is complete news to me, but would explain everything.....

Can any of the US Oldies say that for certain or not please? Thanks in advance.

Greetings from

Andy Mathison

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Bein only a semi-old US geek :) ... I do not recall any brand name called
Soder for any soldering implements.  There is a Soder-Wick that is basically
a braided metal for de-soldering that has been around for a long time, but
everything else I find is spelled with an L. ... Not that it could not be,
just not that I know or find.
><> ... Jack


On Sat, Oct 17, 2009 at 10:55 AM, Andrew Mathison <
andrewdavid.mathison@...> wrote:

> I think the problem, if thats the right name, has been found, it would
> appear that soldering products are/were sold in the USA under the name
> Soder.......that is complete news to me, but would explain everything.....
>
> Can any of the US Oldies say that for certain or not please? Thanks in
> advance.
>
> Greetings from
>
> Andy Mathison
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------
>
> Be sure to visit the group home and check for new Links, Files, and Photos:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Homebrew_PCBsYahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

El 17 Oct 2009, a las 15:02, Bip's escribió:
>  to solder copper pipes with lead for indoor plumbing (side note:  
> plumbing derive from french "plomb" for lead (Pb in chemistry)),  
> hence the more modern butane heated soldering irons.

I thought "plumber" came from the Latin derivation. Then again, the  
Latin in the French word "plomb" can easily be seen. Of course,  
English is so irregular because it freely pirates words from any  
other language with wild abandon, and no one cares - English seems to  
liberally want to incorporate words from every country remotely  
nearby :-)

Well, what do you expect, pretty much everyone tried to invade the
island at one time or another with varying success ;-)
No wonder many natives got sick of it and dispersed into just about
every corner of the world....

More seriously, it's a good thing. It makes English pretty easy to
learn compared to most other languages, and I frequently find that
English enables me to decipher bits and pieces of other languages as
well. The English got the language, The French got the SI units, I
wonder who is going to get the currency (yes I believe there will be a
worldwide common currency eventually).


ST

On Sat, Oct 17, 2009 at 6:28 PM, Dylan Smith <dyls@...> wrote:

> I thought "plumber" came from the Latin derivation. Then again, the
> Latin in the French word "plomb" can easily be seen. Of course,
> English is so irregular because it freely pirates words from any
> other language with wild abandon, and no one cares - English seems to
> liberally want to incorporate words from every country remotely
> nearby :-)
>

As an American speaker (Being from Texas a different dialect seems to be
spoken there too! ;) .. I agree, English in its various forms is not a 'pure
language' but a hodge-podge (another colloquialism? meaning mixture in this
case) of many languages.  It also keeps changing with the social needs of
its users.  Latin roots to many words are modified from use, and use in
other languages (Spanish based, French/Itialian - romantic language based,
Germanic based, and in more recent years even Asian, African, and other
areas too.)

From what I have seen any language that is so rigid it cannot change with
its users is doomed, and a 'new' language will prevail.  Now users in
different area have different needs, so dialects happen (In the US, New
England and Boston are different, there are different dialects within New
York even in the NYCity buroughs.  In Texas there are the cities (more
homogonous with the 5o'clock new anchors), rural, and even border areas with
Mexico (larger hispanic population).  There is also a significant Vietnamese
(mostly coastal), German(central/hill country area), and other smaller
ethnic groups that have significantly modified the dialects in their areas.

It is considered a newsworthy event as new words are added to the Cambridge
Dictionary.   I wonder how many are dropped we don't know about?

One of my favorite authors, Ben Franklin, has an autobiography that is
difficult to read with only about 200+ years difference in the language
changes.  Many 'classic' authors are not easy to read by contemporary
readers because of normal rate of language changes.

Oh well, enough of this diatribe for today. ... Life happens, we go on. .

><> ... Jack


On Sat, Oct 17, 2009 at 11:28 AM, Dylan Smith <dyls@...> wrote:

>
> El 17 Oct 2009, a las 15:02, Bip's escribió:
> >  to solder copper pipes with lead for indoor plumbing (side note:
> > plumbing derive from french "plomb" for lead (Pb in chemistry)),
> > hence the more modern butane heated soldering irons.
>
> I thought "plumber" came from the Latin derivation. Then again, the
> Latin in the French word "plomb" can easily be seen. Of course,
> English is so irregular because it freely pirates words from any
> other language with wild abandon, and no one cares - English seems to
> liberally want to incorporate words from every country remotely
> nearby :-)
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------
>
> Be sure to visit the group home and check for new Links, Files, and Photos:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Homebrew_PCBsYahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

I have almost the same station, it is the analog version no digital readout. My dial is calibrated to read temp in degrees, it goes from 35 to 85 and that corresponds to 350 degrees to 850 degrees. I really like this station, it heats up very quickly, regulated heat very well and I really like how it will turn itself off after 30 minutes of no use. I would thing your display would give you temperature. 
Bill

--- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, "AD5VJ  Bob" <rtnmi@...> wrote:

>
> Hi Bill
> 
> Thanks for your input
> 
> I meant to write 200 F not watts. 
> 
> My station is a Weller WESD51. I found a manual for it and downloaded it and all it tells me is that it is a 50W station with an
> adjustable setting of 350-850 F.
> 
> So even though it is not telling me temp to watt settings, I am assuming that means at the highest temperature of 850F it delivers
> 50W to the tip.
> 
> So to my way of thinking assuming it is a linear progression and simple math will suffice:
> 
> 850F/50W= 17 degrees per watt
> 
> 30W would be approx 510F
> 35W would be approx 595F
> 
>  So according to what you said: 600F seems to be around 37 Watts or so if my simple calculations are enough to correlate it which
> and would be about right for SMD work.
> 
> If there is an engineer available please verify or smash my thinking.
> 
> 
> Bob AD5VJ
> 
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com 
> > [mailto:Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of bverstelle
> > Sent: Thursday, October 15, 2009 11:14 PM
> > To: Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com
> > Subject: [Homebrew_PCBs] Re: SMD soldering
> > 
> > Hi Bob,
> > I don't think you would want to use 200 watts to solder smd's 
> > with, 15 watts is more than enough. I have Weller station and 
> > my dial is calibrated in temp not watts. I keep it about 600 
> > degrees unless I'm trying to solder to a large ground plane. 
> > I like to have a iron a little on the hot side it puts less 
> > stress on the parts by flowing solder faster and getting off 
> > quicker than to slowly heat things up. Check your iron I 
> > can't believe it is 200 watts.
> > 73, Bill N7OQ 
> > 
> > --- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, "AD5VJ  Bob" <rtnmi@> wrote:
> > >
> > > I am trying to establish what temperature I should use for my SMD 
> > > parts soldering. My Iron is a Weller and has temperature 
> > not wattage readout.
> > > 
> > > As I understand it the wattage should be around 200 for smd 
> > parts. What temp F does that correlate to?
> > > 
> > > Bob AD5VJ
> > >
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > ------------------------------------
> > 
> > Be sure to visit the group home and check for new Links, 
> > Files, and Photos:
> > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Homebrew_PCBsYahoo! Groups Links
> > 
> > 
> >
>

Due to the apparent random nature of the English (and derivative) languages,
non-English speakers, like Chinese tend to judge English as one of the
hardest
languages to learn.  Significantly different syntax, many rules with large
numbers
of exceptions, etc.  Synonyms, antonyms, tenses with modified rules, all
make
English pretty hard for non-English speakers to learn.  German and Spanish,
even French, seems to have significantly more consistent set of
rules/guidelines
for word usage and choices.

It would be interesting to hear from middle and far eastern and African
language
speakers to know how learning English seems to them!

><> ... Jack


On Sat, Oct 17, 2009 at 11:46 AM, Stefan Trethan <stefan_trethan@...>wrote:

> Well, what do you expect, pretty much everyone tried to invade the
> island at one time or another with varying success ;-)
> No wonder many natives got sick of it and dispersed into just about
> every corner of the world....
>
> More seriously, it's a good thing. It makes English pretty easy to
> learn compared to most other languages, and I frequently find that
> English enables me to decipher bits and pieces of other languages as
> well. The English got the language, The French got the SI units, I
> wonder who is going to get the currency (yes I believe there will be a
> worldwide common currency eventually).
>
>
> ST
>
> On Sat, Oct 17, 2009 at 6:28 PM, Dylan Smith <dyls@...> wrote:
>
> > I thought "plumber" came from the Latin derivation. Then again, the
> > Latin in the French word "plomb" can easily be seen. Of course,
> > English is so irregular because it freely pirates words from any
> > other language with wild abandon, and no one cares - English seems to
> > liberally want to incorporate words from every country remotely
> > nearby :-)
> >
>
>
> ------------------------------------
>
> Be sure to visit the group home and check for new Links, Files, and Photos:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Homebrew_PCBsYahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Wow can't believe how much activity one question can bring, and I'm getting a lot of history too, make it a lot more interesting. 

When I was in England back in my Air Force days I was talking to a Chap in a Pub one night and he said we took and English language and butchered it and I replied that we took the English language and made it better. Boy did that get a rise out of him. Anyway after a couple of Pints we were friends again and we both agreed that the British beer was better than US beer.
Bill N7OQ

--- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, "Bip's" <louijp@...> wrote:

>
> 
> 
> I have followed that thread and it made me laugh a lot. I'm a French native living in America since the mid 80's, so I have seen both sides of the story, and I have been an electronic engineer for more than 35 years.
> 
> America always assume that just because some do it, it is ok to butcher the English language. 
> Even the etymology online listed before has missing info has the old french verb "solder" and noun "soldure" have evolved in France to become now the noun "soudure" and the verb "souder" while english use "solder" for both. Soldering irons (really made of iron heated by fire) were used long before electronic manufacturing, to solder copper pipes with lead for indoor plumbing (side note: plumbing derive from french "plomb" for lead (Pb in chemistry)), hence the more modern butane heated soldering irons.
>   When I was a little kid, I remember the blacksmith making steel tools by forgeing them with a hammer on an anvil. That's where the "strike the iron while it is hot" comes from, as the iron needed to be bright red almost white to be soft enough to be hammered into the proper shape.
> I had never realized that people used "soder wick" for desoldering wick because "SODER" was the most known brand name until I had to purchase large quantity of wick for my job here in the US.
> 
> Just my two cents.
> Jean-Paul Louis  
> 
> --- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, "Andrew Mathison" <andrewdavid.mathison@> wrote:
> >
> > 
> > 
> > If you are speaking English, the "L" is not silent, if you are speaking American, its whatever you Guys want........Languages change:- Eether or eyether, neether or neyether etc (speeling phonetically......
> > 
> > Greetings from
> > 
> > Andy Mathison
> > 
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> >
>

I'm really glad this thread has digressed a little off topic and
meandered along, with so many differences of opinion and no real
agreement but with everyone learning a little bit about other things
along the way, its the first time I've seem such a loose discussion in
this groups for longer than i remember, we all deserve a pat on the
back lol.

But its so true about how language differs, and one point just
recently raised was how do non English based speakers find English
easy/hard to learn compared to say French/German based languages with
more structure, well I remember at school having nothing but trouble
with french as it seems in the language the prepositions in a sentence
can be shifted completely around, so davids book is the book of david,
not to mention the masculine / feminine variety of words and the
correct use of each one, I could not get it at all, a feminine word, a
masculine word? how ... odd..

Then we get onto the other peoples of the world, I worked until some
months ago as a taxi driver, working nights, my most common run was
the university campus to the clubs in the city, and our university has
an exchange student policy with a university in china, I was amazed at
how they could master our language with ease, I dont know if any had
some previous tuition before coming here, but then I am totally amazed
when I buy a cheap piece of electronics off ebay, and the instructions
make no sense at all due to poor translation! why cant they employ
these students who are superb with the english!

As for accents, here in the UK we all have a different one just by
driving 20 miles!
One night I had someone in the back of my car who sounded like she had
a very strong accent, I believe she was from new york, as I commented
how she sounded like one of the characters off of 'friends', I dont
watch the series, wife did, I'd be at work, but I commented she
sounded like one I had seen as i was leaving the house one night, a
girlfriend of that joey character, one who had an annoying laugh, well
she flew off into a storm of abuse calling me a 'jerk' and allsorts! I
still to this day dont know why or whats wrong with the accent.

Actually, it will apply anywhere from 0 to 50 watts, as needed to keep the tip temperature at whatever temperature you set on the dial.  When idling at 700F, that may be 17 watts, but it may apply the full 50 watts if you are trying to heat a large component or hunk of wire to 700F.

With a temp-controlled iron, just set the temperature you need, and let the controller decide how much of the 50 watts to apply to the tip to keep it there.  On old irons without temperature control, the power rating (watts) determined the idle temperature and the tip mass determined how much of the heat stored was available to the joint.

HTH,
Donald.

----- Original Message -----
From: "AD5VJ Bob" <rtnmi@...>
To: "Homebrew PCBs" <Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Friday, October 16, 2009 12:39:37 AM GMT -05:00 US/Canada Eastern
Subject: RE: [Homebrew_PCBs] Re: SMD soldering

Hi Bill

Thanks for your input

I meant to write 200 F not watts. 

My station is a Weller WESD51. I found a manual for it and downloaded it and all it tells me is that it is a 50W station with an
adjustable setting of 350-850 F.

So even though it is not telling me temp to watt settings, I am assuming that means at the highest temperature of 850F it delivers
50W to the tip.

So to my way of thinking assuming it is a linear progression and simple math will suffice:

850F/50W= 17 degrees per watt

30W would be approx 510F
35W would be approx 595F

 So according to what you said: 600F seems to be around 37 Watts or so if my simple calculations are enough to correlate it which
and would be about right for SMD work.

If there is an engineer available please verify or smash my thinking.


Bob AD5VJ

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com 
> [mailto:Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of bverstelle
> Sent: Thursday, October 15, 2009 11:14 PM
> To: Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [Homebrew_PCBs] Re: SMD soldering
> 
> Hi Bob,
> I don't think you would want to use 200 watts to solder smd's 
> with, 15 watts is more than enough. I have Weller station and 
> my dial is calibrated in temp not watts. I keep it about 600 
> degrees unless I'm trying to solder to a large ground plane. 
> I like to have a iron a little on the hot side it puts less 
> stress on the parts by flowing solder faster and getting off 
> quicker than to slowly heat things up. Check your iron I 
> can't believe it is 200 watts.
> 73, Bill N7OQ 
> 
> --- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, "AD5VJ  Bob" <rtnmi@...> wrote:
> >
> > I am trying to establish what temperature I should use for my SMD 
> > parts soldering. My Iron is a Weller and has temperature 
> not wattage readout.
> > 
> > As I understand it the wattage should be around 200 for smd 
> parts. What temp F does that correlate to?
> > 
> > Bob AD5VJ
> >
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ------------------------------------
> 
> Be sure to visit the group home and check for new Links, 
> Files, and Photos:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Homebrew_PCBsYahoo! Groups Links
> 
> 
> 



------------------------------------

Be sure to visit the group home and check for new Links, Files, and Photos:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Homebrew_PCBsYahoo! Groups Links

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

bverstelle wrote:
> Wow can't believe how much activity one question can bring, and I'm getting a lot of history too, make it a lot more interesting. 
> 
> When I was in England back in my Air Force days I was talking to a Chap in a Pub one night and he said we took and English language and butchered it and I replied that we took the English language and made it better. Boy did that get a rise out of him. Anyway after a couple of Pints we were friends again and we both agreed that the British beer was better than US beer.
> Bill N7OQ

Could not resist.

Even Bud (Budweiser) is not US beer, it Check

- --
 Best regards,
 Zoran A. Scepanovic
 zastos@...
 www.zastos.com
 www.zastos.biz
 +381 63 609-993

=====

 The value of a program is inversely proportional to the weight of its
output.
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: GnuPG v1.4.9 (MingW32)
Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org/

iEYEARECAAYFAkraF6sACgkQeEZQoPqyQm3oKgCdHoMjLy9h4qvfQpVxrZ16kU3u
4cwAnRBTa0zmCy2Z2MUrONXcmBok3Wu6
=0dSw
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

>> When I was in England back in my Air Force days I was talking to a Chap in a Pub one night and he said we took and English language and butchered it and I replied that we took the English language and made it better. Boy did that get a rise out of him. Anyway after a couple of Pints we were friends again and we both agreed that the British beer was better than US beer.

Well I have to agree, in many ways the Americanization of the English
language has no doubt simplified some of it, it has so many words were
often one would do, and they are pronounced the same, so its a
shambles of rules.

Weather and whether, both pronounced the same, so when I am speaking
its up the the other person on the receiving end to decode the
meaning, so why can that be true for when its written!

No as much as I like to see its correct use, its a stupid old thing..

Of course that means you can play on it to totally fool online and non
English translation, by using the deliberate wrong words, so as read
its gibberish, but as spoken, makes perfect sense...

I decided to take a taxi to the city

Eye decided two take hay taxi two the settee

A bit of a slant on the accent as read, but anyone English would
understand the sentence if they heard it, but to read it or translate
it, gibberish...


hopefully one days we wil have a new world language, with such ideas
as simple sentence structure and simple spelling.

German has a consistent set of rules, but many of them. I vote German as the hardest European language to learn.

Been there, done that and got the T-Shirt!!

Greetings from

Andy Mathison

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Having been first introduced to the US aviation industry in the mid 50's, including the Air Force, Commercial Aircraft and Missiles
& Space, I have never seen or heard of any form of solder referred to as 'soder' in any engineering or other technical reference (of
which I have referenced many thousands throughout my career).

I think that we are now co-mingling  language with the rest of the world - the affect of globalization - and as manufacturers
everywhere try to differentiate themselves when creating trade names for products, they draw from global information without
understanding (or caring?) to deal with all the subtle differences.

I just consider it as a bit of an awkward learning experience (although sometimes quite interesting) for us in translating many
things, such as is caused by differences in the language constructs used by our global friends, when communicating from their
differing backgrounds. (JMHO)

Regards,

Roger 

From: Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Andrew Mathison
Sent: Saturday, October 17, 2009 8:56 AM
To: Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: soldering "iron", was Re: [Homebrew_PCBs] Re: SMD soldering

 

  

I think the problem, if thats the right name, has been found, it would appear that soldering products are/were sold in the USA under
the name Soder.......that is complete news to me, but would explain everything.....

Can any of the US Oldies say that for certain or not please? Thanks in advance.

Greetings from

Andy Mathison

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Hmmm I started working in the aviation industry in 1974 and in the 20 years I worked as a electronics technician in the Air Force I never heard anyone pronounce the L in solder, I worked with a lot of Engineers and technicians also worked on the Fastest Aircraft in the world for many years and a lot of engineers for all over in that project and again I never heard that L in solder. So some where from the 50's to the 70's it changed. I always though it was soder and never knew in the US ever pronounced it different. 
Bill

--- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, "Roger Blair" <Roger.Blair@...> wrote:

>
> Having been first introduced to the US aviation industry in the mid 50's, including the Air Force, Commercial Aircraft and Missiles
> & Space, I have never seen or heard of any form of solder referred to as 'soder' in any engineering or other technical reference (of
> which I have referenced many thousands throughout my career).
> 
> I think that we are now co-mingling  language with the rest of the world - the affect of globalization - and as manufacturers
> everywhere try to differentiate themselves when creating trade names for products, they draw from global information without
> understanding (or caring?) to deal with all the subtle differences.
> 
> I just consider it as a bit of an awkward learning experience (although sometimes quite interesting) for us in translating many
> things, such as is caused by differences in the language constructs used by our global friends, when communicating from their
> differing backgrounds. (JMHO)
> 
> Regards,
> 
> Roger 
> 
>  
> 
> From: Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Andrew Mathison
> Sent: Saturday, October 17, 2009 8:56 AM
> To: Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: Re: soldering "iron", was Re: [Homebrew_PCBs] Re: SMD soldering
> 
>  
> 
>   
> 
> I think the problem, if thats the right name, has been found, it would appear that soldering products are/were sold in the USA under
> the name Soder.......that is complete news to me, but would explain everything.....
> 
> Can any of the US Oldies say that for certain or not please? Thanks in advance.
> 
> Greetings from
> 
> Andy Mathison
> 
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

Bill,

I was referring to the 'spelled' version of solder, not the 'pronounced' version. Neither have I ever heard it pronounced with a
non-silent L in my working environment.

So No, it didn't change at all from the 50's to the 70's.

Regards,

Roger

From: Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of bverstelle
Sent: Saturday, October 17, 2009 4:52 PM
To: Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com
Subject: soldering "iron", was Re: [Homebrew_PCBs] Re: SMD soldering

 

  

Hmmm I started working in the aviation industry in 1974 and in the 20 years I worked as a electronics technician in the Air Force I
never heard anyone pronounce the L in solder, I worked with a lot of Engineers and technicians also worked on the Fastest Aircraft
in the world for many years and a lot of engineers for all over in that project and again I never heard that L in solder. So some
where from the 50's to the 70's it changed. I always though it was soder and never knew in the US ever pronounced it different. 
Bill

--- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com <mailto:Homebrew_PCBs%40yahoogroups.com> , "Roger Blair" <Roger.Blair@...> wrote:
>
> Having been first introduced to the US aviation industry in the mid 50's, including the Air Force, Commercial Aircraft and
Missiles
> & Space, I have never seen or heard of any form of solder referred to as 'soder' in any engineering or other technical reference
(of
> which I have referenced many thousands throughout my career).
> 
> I think that we are now co-mingling language with the rest of the world - the affect of globalization - and as manufacturers
> everywhere try to differentiate themselves when creating trade names for products, they draw from global information without
> understanding (or caring?) to deal with all the subtle differences.
> 
> I just consider it as a bit of an awkward learning experience (although sometimes quite interesting) for us in translating many
> things, such as is caused by differences in the language constructs used by our global friends, when communicating from their
> differing backgrounds. (JMHO)
> 
> Regards,
> 
> Roger 
> 
> 
> 
> From: Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com <mailto:Homebrew_PCBs%40yahoogroups.com>  [mailto:Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com
<mailto:Homebrew_PCBs%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of Andrew Mathison
> Sent: Saturday, October 17, 2009 8:56 AM
> To: Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com <mailto:Homebrew_PCBs%40yahoogroups.com> 
> Subject: Re: soldering "iron", was Re: [Homebrew_PCBs] Re: SMD soldering
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I think the problem, if thats the right name, has been found, it would appear that soldering products are/were sold in the USA
under
> the name Soder.......that is complete news to me, but would explain everything.....
> 
> Can any of the US Oldies say that for certain or not please? Thanks in advance.
> 
> Greetings from
> 
> Andy Mathison
> 
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

New Zealand and Australia both pronounce the L in my experience.

This reminds me of a funny conversation I had recently with some
Japanese and Chinese friends, it turns out that both cultures have
their own version of the Doh-Ray-Me song from the sound of music. I
remember that the 'Ray' in japanese is for 'Ray-Mon' which means
lemon, it seems that it is borrowed from english (or french). That
surprised me, I guess that lemons must have been introduced into
Japan...

> So I assume the British based English language (South Africa, New Zealand,
> Australia, Former USSR, etc) also pronounce the L as well?
>
> If so, I assume it depends on which version of English was prevalent as the
> areas were brought into the English speaking world.
>
> ><> ... Jack

At 06:55 PM 10/17/2009, you wrote:
>
>
>I think the problem, if thats the right name,

A lot of bla-bla for nothing, out of the smd soldering.
Go on, there are more 'interesting' subjects as the 'hot plate' name 
(English ws the rest of the World).
Don't forger the 'iron' used to toner transfer. Is it made from 
English iron or US iron?
Cristian


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

El 18 Oct 2009, a las 08:32, Cristian escribió:

> Don't forger the 'iron' used to toner transfer. Is it made from
> English iron or US iron?

Usually Chinese iron, I think. At least the iron that I have came  
from China :-)

Roger Blair wrote:
> Bill,
> 
> I was referring to the 'spelled' version of solder, not the 'pronounced' version. Neither have I ever heard it pronounced with a
> non-silent L in my working environment.
> 
> So No, it didn't change at all from the 50's to the 70's.

Since for eons, solder always has the L pronounced in Australia.

The 'soder' is a verbal only version of the word 'solder'.  I agree, and
doubt that we will
find a technical reference unless it is in reference to a specific product
that uses that
term like Soder-wick does.
><> ... Jack


On Sat, Oct 17, 2009 at 4:51 PM, Roger Blair <Roger.Blair@...>wrote:

> Having been first introduced to the US aviation industry in the mid 50's,
> including the Air Force, Commercial Aircraft and Missiles
> & Space, I have never seen or heard of any form of solder referred to as
> 'soder' in any engineering or other technical reference (of
> which I have referenced many thousands throughout my career).
>
> I think that we are now co-mingling  language with the rest of the world -
> the affect of globalization - and as manufacturers
> everywhere try to differentiate themselves when creating trade names for
> products, they draw from global information without
> understanding (or caring?) to deal with all the subtle differences.
>
> I just consider it as a bit of an awkward learning experience (although
> sometimes quite interesting) for us in translating many
> things, such as is caused by differences in the language constructs used by
> our global friends, when communicating from their
> differing backgrounds. (JMHO)
>
> Regards,
>
> Roger
>
>
>
> From: Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com]
> On Behalf Of Andrew Mathison
> Sent: Saturday, October 17, 2009 8:56 AM
> To: Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: Re: soldering "iron", was Re: [Homebrew_PCBs] Re: SMD soldering
>
>
>
>
>
> I think the problem, if thats the right name, has been found, it would
> appear that soldering products are/were sold in the USA under
> the name Soder.......that is complete news to me, but would explain
> everything.....
>
> Can any of the US Oldies say that for certain or not please? Thanks in
> advance.
>
> Greetings from
>
> Andy Mathison
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------
>
> Be sure to visit the group home and check for new Links, Files, and Photos:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Homebrew_PCBsYahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

OK, can we move on? I'm much more interested in the process of surface mount soldering, however you pronounce it.

Steve Greenfield

I suspect you have the order of things reversed. It is likely that they chose that as a name they could trademark. "Solder wick" could not be trademarked as it is a term in general use.

I don't know if I'm an "oldie" at 48 (wish me a happy birthday, today is mine), but I knew some ham radio operators when I was in high school. Some of them were in their 70s (this was also in the '70s for symmetry) and all of them pronounced it with a silent "l".

Now let's talk about something more on topic...

Steve Greenfield

--- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, "Andrew Mathison" <andrewdavid.mathison@...> wrote:

>
> I think the problem, if thats the right name, has been found, it would appear that soldering products are/were sold in the USA under the name Soder.......that is complete news to me, but would explain everything.....
> 
> Can any of the US Oldies say that for certain or not please? Thanks in advance.
> 
> Greetings from
> 
> Andy Mathison
> 
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

--- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, "AlienRelics" <alienrelics@...> wrote:
>
> OK, can we move on? I'm much more interested in the process of surface mount soldering, however you pronounce it.
> 
> Steve Greenfield
>


sorry Steve...

I wish I'd never mentioned it  :-)

Chris  (-=Spiyda=-)

Happy Birthday, Steve -- apparently October 18 was a very good day, as it is also my birthday (albeit one year before yours). :)

--- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, "AlienRelics" <alienrelics@...> wrote:

>
> I suspect you have the order of things reversed. It is likely that they chose that as a name they could trademark. "Solder wick" could not be trademarked as it is a term in general use.
> 
> I don't know if I'm an "oldie" at 48 (wish me a happy birthday, today is mine), but I knew some ham radio operators when I was in high school. Some of them were in their 70s (this was also in the '70s for symmetry) and all of them pronounced it with a silent "l".
> 
> Now let's talk about something more on topic...
> 
> Steve Greenfield
> 
> --- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, "Andrew Mathison" <andrewdavid.mathison@> wrote:
> >
> > I think the problem, if thats the right name, has been found, it would appear that soldering products are/were sold in the USA under the name Soder.......that is complete news to me, but would explain everything.....
> > 
> > Can any of the US Oldies say that for certain or not please? Thanks in advance.
> > 
> > Greetings from
> > 
> > Andy Mathison
> > 
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> >
>

> Did you know that soldering irons were once more correctly called
> soldering coppers in the US? I spotted this recently in an old
> telephone company tool care manual.
> I wonder why the name iron persisted.
> 
> ST

Well, Probably for the same reason we still call a "Steam roller" a Steam roller.  They have not been powered by steam for about 70 years, but they are still called steam rollers. I guess it just sounds better. 

Chris

In article <afa365fa0910161130n32607f87jf94f2ccef4c3dcec@...>,
   Stefan Trethan <stefan_trethan@...> wrote:
> I'm no expert on soldering so I can't explain what happens physically
> but I know that the iron must be well hotter than the melting point for
> best results.

I was reading an article recently in an old (1950s) copy of Wireless World
about soldering I look it out and see if I can upload something, it might
be of interest.

-- 
Stuart
http://www.torrens.org.uk/ZFC/gallery/winsor.html

I've recently started to solder SMD components with my iron.  I've had good success with 805 and 603 resistors, LEDs and diodes.  But last night I was trying to solder a SMD resonator and found that I could not do it.   Here is the particular component I was trying to solder

http://search.digikey.com/scripts/DkSearch/dksus.dll?Detail&name=490-1195-2-ND

My technique for soldering a 805 resistor, for example, is to flux the pads, tack a bit of solder onto one pad, place the component, reheat the pad, and then solder the second pin.  

With the resonator I can't do this, because the pads are almost completely covered by the component.

I don't have much experience so I'm not sure how to solder this type of component.  I'm guessing it would be easier with a hot air station, but I'm not sure?  Has anyone had success soldering a SMD resonator with a normal soldering iron?

Thanks,

Are you using ready made boards? If not and you are designing/making your own boards, simply create a pad layout with larger pads to accommodate the resonator.
The other option is invest in some solder paste and using a tooth-pick to apply to the pads. Then solder as usual.
I'm not 100% sure of this method... you will have to try it for your-self 



      

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

On 27/11/2010 15:12, coreyker@... wrote:
> I've recently started to solder SMD components with my iron.  I've had good success with 805 and 603 resistors, LEDs and diodes.  But last night I was trying to solder a SMD resonator and found that I could not do it.   Here is the particular component I was trying to solder
>
> http://search.digikey.com/scripts/DkSearch/dksus.dll?Detail&name=490-1195-2-ND
>
> My technique for soldering a 805 resistor, for example, is to flux the pads, tack a bit of solder onto one pad, place the component, reheat the pad, and then solder the second pin.
>
> With the resonator I can't do this, because the pads are almost completely covered by the component.
>
> I don't have much experience so I'm not sure how to solder this type of component.  I'm guessing it would be easier with a hot air station, but I'm not sure?  Has anyone had success soldering a SMD resonator with a normal soldering iron?

If you extend the pads a bit, you should be able to manage it with 
suitable soldering iron, especially a Metcal like I use. You need to be 
careful, though, as resonators are easily damaged by excessive temperature.

Leon
-- 
Leon Heller
G1HSM

On 27 November 2010 16:03, Leon Heller <leon355@...> wrote:

> If you extend the pads a bit, you should be able to manage it with
> suitable soldering iron, especially a Metcal like I use. You need to be
> careful, though, as resonators are easily damaged by excessive temperature.

If you can't extend the pads because the board's already made, my
technique for things like these is to hover the part a small distance
above the board. Solderblob one pad on the board, and the
corresponding pad on the part. Tweezer the part into place, holding it
level, but with the solderblobs touching. Melt the blobs, solder will
flow, and the part will be supported by one pad. Be gentle at this
point.
You then have gaps between the board and the part, into which you can
melt solder. These parts are so light that they're unlikely to shake
free from the slightly weaker solder joints.
I've done this a lot recently, having laid out a bunch of boards for
2.5x3mm crystals, with no spare pad area. They'll be fine for reflow,
but manual soldering requires this hovering tactic. Full success, and
not terribly slow. It's obvious when it's not worked, and gives you
room to get solderwick in if necessary.

Steve

This is an older post but thought I would add to it.

I use tips at 700 degrees F. The temp is not as important as to the time you spend on the joint.

The quote is 'get in and get out. dont hang out'.

Brian

--- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, "AD5VJ  Bob" <rtnmi@...> wrote:

>
> I am trying to establish what temperature I should use for my SMD parts soldering. My Iron is a Weller and has temperature not
> wattage readout.
> 
> As I understand it the wattage should be around 200 for smd parts. What temp F does that correlate to?
> 
> Bob AD5VJ
>