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Epson P800 blocks refilling: where do we go from here?

Epson P800 blocks refilling: where do we go from here?

2017-06-11 by rdeloe1@...

As has been much discussed on the forum, Epson has locked out refillers quite effectively on the P800. I'm wondering what people who want to print 17" wide are using.

I have a 3880 and it's working great... but nothing lasts forever. When it dies, what's the option for someone who wants to print 17" wide and can't justify a larger printer?

Re: Epson P800 blocks refilling: where do we go from here?

2017-06-12 by Steven Blutter

I picked up a lightly used 3880 for the inevitable. and there was a court
ruling FOR 3rd party ink suppliers
 
We'll see.
 
Also, be sure to clean & service your current printer!
 
 
Steven Blutter
6334 N. Sheridan Rd., #7F
Chicago, IL  60660
Tel: 773-262-5200 (Land line, no text)
Fax: 888-955-1616
 <mailto:sblutter1@...> sblutter1@...
 <http://www.sblutter.com/insurance/> http://www.sblutter.com/insurance/ 
NPN# 2518791

Re: [Digital BW] Re: Epson P800 blocks refilling: where do we go from here?

2017-06-12 by David Kachel

I don’t know what’s inevitable, nor what court ruling to which you refer.
If this is some sort of doomsday announcement, please provide a link.


David Kachel

___________________

Artist-Photographer
Fine B&W Photographs

WEBSITE: www.davidkachel.com
BLOG: thetransparentphotographer.com
EMAIL: david@...

PO Box 1093
Bisbee, AZ 85603
(520) 366-4181
Show quoted textHide quoted text
From:  "'Steven Blutter' sblutter1@... [DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint]"
<DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com>
Reply-To:  <DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com>
Date:  Monday, June 12, 2017 at 7:32 AM
To:  <DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com>
Subject:  [Digital BW] Re: Epson P800 blocks refilling: where do we go from
here?

 
 
 
 
   

I picked up a lightly used 3880 for the inevitable… and there was a court
ruling FOR 3rd party ink suppliers
 
We’ll see…
 
Also, be sure to clean & service your current printer!
 
 
Steven Blutter
6334 N. Sheridan Rd., #7F
Chicago, IL  60660
Tel: 773-262-5200 (Land line, no text)
Fax: 888-955-1616
sblutter1@... <mailto:sblutter1@...>
http://www.sblutter.com/insurance/ <http://www.sblutter.com/insurance/>
NPN# 2518791

Re: [Digital BW] Epson P800 blocks refilling: where do we go from here?

2017-06-12 by Keith Schreiber

The inevitable is that every printer will fail someday.

The case referred to is Impression Products, Inc. v. Lexmark International, Inc. Here are a few links:
https://www.supremecourt.gov/opinions/16pdf/15-1189_ebfj.pdf
http://www.scotusblog.com/case-files/cases/impression-products-inc-v-lexmark-international-inc/
https://www.eff.org/cases/impression-products-inc-v-lexmark-international-inc


"Ever tried. Ever failed. No matter. Try Again. Fail again. Fail better."
~ Samuel Beckett
Show quoted textHide quoted text
> On Jun 12, 2017, at 2:53 PM, David Kachel david@... [DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint] <DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com> wrote:
> 
> 
> I don’t know what’s inevitable, nor what court ruling to which you refer.
> If this is some sort of doomsday announcement, please provide a link.
> 
> 
> David Kachel
> 
> ___________________
> 
> Artist-Photographer
> Fine B&W Photographs
> 
> WEBSITE: www.davidkachel.com <http://www.davidkachel.com/>
> BLOG: thetransparentphotographer.com <http://thetransparentphotographer.com/>
> EMAIL: david@... <mailto:david@...>
> 
> PO Box 1093
> Bisbee, AZ 85603
> (520) 366-4181
> 
> From: "'Steven Blutter' sblutter1@... <mailto:sblutter1@...> [DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint]" <DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com <mailto:DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com>>
> Reply-To: <DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com <mailto:DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com>>
> Date: Monday, June 12, 2017 at 7:32 AM
> To: <DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com <mailto:DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com>>
> Subject: [Digital BW] Re: Epson P800 blocks refilling: where do we go from here?
> 
>  
> 
> I picked up a lightly used 3880 for the inevitable… and there was a court ruling FOR 3rd party ink suppliers
> 
>  
> 
> We’ll see…
> 
>  
> 
> Also, be sure to clean & service your current printer!
> 
>  
> 
>  
> 
> Steven Blutter
> 6334 N. Sheridan Rd., #7F
> Chicago, IL  60660
> 
> Tel: 773-262-5200 (Land line, no text)
> Fax: 888-955-1616
> 
> sblutter1@... <mailto:sblutter1@...>
> http://www.sblutter.com/insurance/ <http://www.sblutter.com/insurance/>
> NPN# 2518791
> 
>  
> 
> 
> 
>

Re: [Digital BW] Epson P800 blocks refilling: where do we go from here?

2017-06-12 by Keith Schreiber

The inevitable is that every printer will fail someday.

The case referred to is Impression Products, Inc. v. Lexmark International, Inc. Here are a few links:
https://www.supremecourt.gov/opinions/16pdf/15-1189_ebfj.pdf <https://www.supremecourt.gov/opinions/16pdf/15-1189_ebfj.pdf>
http://www.scotusblog.com/case-files/cases/impression-products-inc-v-lexmark-international-inc/ <http://www.scotusblog.com/case-files/cases/impression-products-inc-v-lexmark-international-inc/>
https://www.eff.org/cases/impression-products-inc-v-lexmark-international-inc <https://www.eff.org/cases/impression-products-inc-v-lexmark-international-inc>


"Ever tried. Ever failed. No matter. Try Again. Fail again. Fail better."
~ Samuel Beckett
Show quoted textHide quoted text
> On Jun 12, 2017, at 2:53 PM, David Kachel david@... <mailto:david@davidkachel.com> [DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint] <DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com <mailto:DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com>> wrote:
> 
> 
> I don’t know what’s inevitable, nor what court ruling to which you refer.
> If this is some sort of doomsday announcement, please provide a link.
> 
> 
> David Kachel
> 
> ___________________
> 
> Artist-Photographer
> Fine B&W Photographs
> 
> WEBSITE: www.davidkachel.com <http://www.davidkachel.com/>
> BLOG: thetransparentphotographer.com <http://thetransparentphotographer.com/>
> EMAIL: david@... <mailto:david@davidkachel.com>
> 
> PO Box 1093
> Bisbee, AZ 85603
> (520) 366-4181
> 
> From: "'Steven Blutter' sblutter1@... <mailto:sblutter1@...> [DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint]" <DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com <mailto:DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com>>
> Reply-To: <DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com <mailto:DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com>>
> Date: Monday, June 12, 2017 at 7:32 AM
> To: <DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com <mailto:DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com>>
> Subject: [Digital BW] Re: Epson P800 blocks refilling: where do we go from here?
> 
>  
> 
> I picked up a lightly used 3880 for the inevitable… and there was a court ruling FOR 3rd party ink suppliers
> 
>  
> 
> We’ll see…
> 
>  
> 
> Also, be sure to clean & service your current printer!
> 
>  
> 
>  
> 
> Steven Blutter
> 6334 N. Sheridan Rd., #7F
> Chicago, IL  60660
> 
> Tel: 773-262-5200 (Land line, no text)
> Fax: 888-955-1616
> 
> sblutter1@... <mailto:sblutter1@yahoo.com>
> http://www.sblutter.com/insurance/ <http://www.sblutter.com/insurance/>
> NPN# 2518791
> 
>  
> 
> 
> 
>

Re: [Digital BW] Epson P800 blocks refilling: where do we go from here?

2017-06-12 by Jacques Caron

My two bits :

1- If you buy a product and put some "other"inks in it, its perfectly normal that the maker will not support the product.
2- If you put whatever inks in it and are perfectly informed that there is no more "guarantee" for the product, you are the owner after all (Remember that you bought it!).
3-If the company is "giving away" the printer so it can make money on the consumables, that's a way of doing business. The company's choice!
4-If the company is making it impossible to use whatever consumables you want, the product they make should be avoided. The company is already working great on planned obsolescence anyways!

I'm a proud owner of a 1430 with 3rd party inks in it (B&W only) and since I'm not making any prints larger than 13x19, it's great. Epson is pretty good on "planned obsolescence"!


Jacques Caron
Photographe
jacques.caron@...



Le 2017-06-12 à 17:31, "Keith Schreiber keith@... [DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint]" <DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com> a écrit :
Show quoted textHide quoted text
> 
> The inevitable is that every printer will fail someday.
> 
> The case referred to is Impression Products, Inc. v. Lexmark International, Inc. Here are a few links:
> https://www.supremecourt.gov/opinions/16pdf/15-1189_ebfj.pdf
> http://www.scotusblog.com/case-files/cases/impression-products-inc-v-lexmark-international-inc/
> https://www.eff.org/cases/impression-products-inc-v-lexmark-international-inc
> 
> 
> "Ever tried. Ever failed. No matter. Try Again. Fail again. Fail better."
> ~ Samuel Beckett
> 
> 
> 
>> On Jun 12, 2017, at 2:53 PM, David Kachel david@... [DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint] <DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com> wrote:
>> 
>> 
>> I don’t know what’s inevitable, nor what court ruling to which you refer.
>> If this is some sort of doomsday announcement, please provide a link.
>> 
>> 
>> David Kachel
>> 
>> ___________________
>> 
>> Artist-Photographer
>> Fine B&W Photographs
>> 
>> WEBSITE: www.davidkachel.com
>> BLOG: thetransparentphotographer.com
>> EMAIL: david@...
>> 
>> PO Box 1093
>> Bisbee, AZ 85603
>> (520) 366-4181
>> 
>> From: "'Steven Blutter' sblutter1@... [DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint]" <DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com>
>> Reply-To: <DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com>
>> Date: Monday, June 12, 2017 at 7:32 AM
>> To: <DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com>
>> Subject: [Digital BW] Re: Epson P800 blocks refilling: where do we go from here?
>> 
>>  
>> 
>> I picked up a lightly used 3880 for the inevitable… and there was a court ruling FOR 3rd party ink suppliers
>> 
>>  
>> 
>> We’ll see…
>> 
>>  
>> 
>> Also, be sure to clean & service your current printer!
>> 
>>  
>> 
>>  
>> 
>> Steven Blutter
>> 6334 N. Sheridan Rd., #7F
>> Chicago, IL  60660
>> 
>> Tel: 773-262-5200 (Land line, no text)
>> Fax: 888-955-1616
>> 
>> sblutter1@...
>> 
>> http://www.sblutter.com/insurance/
>> 
>> NPN# 2518791
>> 
>>  
>> 
>> 
>> 
> 
> 
>

RE: [Digital BW] Epson P800 blocks refilling: where do we go from here?

2017-06-13 by Dr. Elliot Puritz

I think Keith is entirely correct.  Some dedicated Piezography users have already “mothballed” 3800 printers for use when their current 3800 printers are no longer usable or repairable.  There must come a time when Epson will no longer have spare parts for older printers and thus those seeking to repair their printers will be forced to pay high prices for printers merely for the parts.

 

One hopes and suspects that Walker and the Cones understand that the future of Piezography in all of its iterations depends upon our ability to use the newer Epson printers with refillable carts.  Now that the courts have rendered their opinion I am very optimistic that a solution will be found.

 

Hope all if fine with you David.

 

Elliot
Show quoted textHide quoted text
From: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com [mailto:DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com] 
Sent: Monday, June 12, 2017 5:32 PM
To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [Digital BW] Epson P800 blocks refilling: where do we go from here?

 

  

The inevitable is that every printer will fail someday.

 

The case referred to is Impression Products, Inc. v. Lexmark International, Inc. Here are a few links:

https://www.supremecourt.gov/opinions/16pdf/15-1189_ebfj.pdf

http://www.scotusblog.com/case-files/cases/impression-products-inc-v-lexmark-international-inc/

https://www.eff.org/cases/impression-products-inc-v-lexmark-international-inc

 

 

"Ever tried. Ever failed. No matter. Try Again. Fail again. Fail better."

~ Samuel Beckett

 

 

 

On Jun 12, 2017, at 2:53 PM, David Kachel david@... <mailto:david@...>  [DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint] <DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com <mailto:DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com> > wrote:

 

 

I don’t know what’s inevitable, nor what court ruling to which you refer.

If this is some sort of doomsday announcement, please provide a link.

 

 

David Kachel

 

___________________

 

Artist-Photographer

Fine B&W Photographs

 

WEBSITE: www.davidkachel.com <http://www.davidkachel.com/> 

BLOG: thetransparentphotographer.com <http://thetransparentphotographer.com/> 

EMAIL: david@... <mailto:david@...> 

 

PO Box 1093

Bisbee, AZ 85603

(520) 366-4181

 

From: "'Steven Blutter' sblutter1@... <mailto:sblutter1@...>  [DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint]" <DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com <mailto:DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com> >
Reply-To: <DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com <mailto:DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com> >
Date: Monday, June 12, 2017 at 7:32 AM
To: <DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com <mailto:DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com> >
Subject: [Digital BW] Re: Epson P800 blocks refilling: where do we go from here?

 

 

 

I picked up a lightly used 3880 for the inevitable… and there was a court ruling FOR 3rd party ink suppliers

 

We’ll see…

 

Also, be sure to clean & service your current printer!

 

 

Steven Blutter
6334 N. Sheridan Rd., #7F
Chicago, IL  60660

Tel: 773-262-5200 (Land line, no text)
Fax: 888-955-1616

 <mailto:sblutter1@...> sblutter1@...

 <http://www.sblutter.com/insurance/> http://www.sblutter.com/insurance/

NPN# 2518791

 

 

 

 





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Re: Epson P800 blocks refilling: where do we go from here?

2017-06-13 by rdeloe1@...

I understand that Epson can do whatever it wants. If it wants to prevent people from using any ink but its inks, that's fine, and I'll vote with my wallet (i.e., not buy Epson!)

But... the question I posed originally remains: what are people actually doing? What are some options for those of us who want to print 17" wide using a monochrome inkset (Paul's or Jon's)?

This question is actually not academic for me. I have been offered a used 3880 that I could buy, clean, and store for the future (parts, or a replacement to my current working printer). The catch is the seller has indicated that it throws up the dreaded 150C error. That's a hardware error. Some people on the Internet describe it as a fatal flaw (so buying the printer would be silly, except for parts). Other people say it's a glitch you can work around because it's not actually a hardware fault (in which case I should buy the thing for sure!)

All advice welcome!
Rob de Loe
www.robdeloephotography.com

Re: [Digital BW] Epson P800 blocks refilling: where do we go from here?

2017-06-13 by Keith Schreiber

Rob,

Sorry, I was responding to David. If I was you I'd get a refurbished 3880, especially if you'll be running 3rd party inks. I have 2 3880s, one with Cone K7 inks, the other with OEM Color inks. Both rarely even need a simple cleaning cycle. 

https://epson.com/Clearance-Center/Wide-Format-Printers/Epson-Stylus-Pro-3880---Refurbished/p/CA61201-VM-N

$700, includes a full set of inks that would cost around $500 alone if I remember right.

I'm confident the P series refillable cartridge issue will be cracked eventually, since they are already unlocked in Europe and Asia. InkjetMall says:


The Epson SC P-800 printer can not be used with 3rd party cartridges in the USA. 3rd party carts can be installed and used temporarily until the first auto-reset occurs. At that instance, the USA version Epson SC P-800 will permanently lock out its owner from any further 3rd party cart use. It is not reversible.

SC P-800 printers in Europe and Asia are unlocked. We recommend that if you wish to use your own choice of consumables with this printer model that you import an EU or Asia version model and use a power transformer to convert from 115v to 240v.

But the only advantage I see for the P800 over the 3880 for use with 3rd party inks is the optional roll media feeder if that is something that is of value to you. It's not to me. I'm very happy with my 3880s.

Cheers,
Keith

Keith Schreiber
jkschreiber.com
Show quoted textHide quoted text
> On Jun 12, 2017, at 8:27 PM, rdeloe1@... [DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint] <DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com> wrote:
> 
> I understand that Epson can do whatever it wants. If it wants to prevent people from using any ink but its inks, that's fine, and I'll vote with my wallet (i.e., not buy Epson!) 
> 
> But... the question I posed originally remains: what are people actually doing? What are some options for those of us who want to print 17" wide using a monochrome inkset (Paul's or Jon's)?
> 
> This question is actually not academic for me. I have been offered a used 3880 that I could buy, clean, and store for the future (parts, or a replacement to my current working printer). The catch is the seller has indicated that it throws up the dreaded 150C error. That's a hardware error. Some people on the Internet describe it as a fatal flaw (so buying the printer would be silly, except for parts). Other people say it's a glitch you can work around because it's not actually a hardware fault (in which case I should buy the thing for sure!)
> 
> All advice welcome!
> Rob de Loe
> www.robdeloephotography.com <http://www.robdeloephotography.com/>
>

Re: [Digital BW] Re: Epson P800 blocks refilling: where do we go from here?

2017-06-13 by Paul Roark

I understand that Epson can do whatever it wants. If it wants to prevent people from using any ink but its inks, that's fine,

​...

​Not really. The anti-trust laws prohibit "tying" of one product (the printer) to a second product (the inks). The interpretation and enforcement of these standards have varied over the years, ​but the laws are there, and should be followed and enforced.

But... the question I posed originally remains: what are people actually doing?

​I buy and use older Epson printers for which there are good, empty, refillable carts.​ So far, Epson is still making parts available for the 9800 and 7800, so those are the wide format printers I use. Jon has good empty, refillable carts for the 3880 that I have used for open source B&W inks.

What are some options for those of us who want to print 17" wide using a monochrome inkset (Paul's or Jon's)?


​Do what you';re trying to -- find a 3880 and buy it.​

(I have no idea what that error code signifies.)

Paul


Re: [Digital BW] Epson P800 blocks refilling: where do we go from here?

2017-06-13 by Keith Schreiber

Hi Rob,

Regarding the 150C error, the Service Manual says:

PG Phase Detection Error. The Platen Gap Home Position Sensor does not report to the Main Board.

Check operation of the Platen Gap Mechanism.
Check Platen Gap Home Position Sensor. 
Check the Platen Gap Motor.

Hope that is helpful. Sorry I don't know any more about it.

Cheers,
Keith

Keith Schreiber
jkschreiber.com
Show quoted textHide quoted text
> On Jun 12, 2017, at 8:27 PM, rdeloe1@... [DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint] <DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com> wrote:
> 
> I understand that Epson can do whatever it wants. If it wants to prevent people from using any ink but its inks, that's fine, and I'll vote with my wallet (i.e., not buy Epson!) 
> 
> But... the question I posed originally remains: what are people actually doing? What are some options for those of us who want to print 17" wide using a monochrome inkset (Paul's or Jon's)?
> 
> This question is actually not academic for me. I have been offered a used 3880 that I could buy, clean, and store for the future (parts, or a replacement to my current working printer). The catch is the seller has indicated that it throws up the dreaded 150C error. That's a hardware error. Some people on the Internet describe it as a fatal flaw (so buying the printer would be silly, except for parts). Other people say it's a glitch you can work around because it's not actually a hardware fault (in which case I should buy the thing for sure!)
> 
> All advice welcome!
> Rob de Loe
> www.robdeloephotography.com <http://www.robdeloephotography.com/>
>

Re: [Digital BW] Re: Epson P800 blocks refilling: where do we go from here?

2017-06-13 by David Kachel

I have confidence that the people who make the refillable cartridges and accessories will find a way around this. The Chinese are pretty clever at this sort of thing.

In the mean time, it might be a good idea to get organized and prepare for some kind of action.
Epson is taking exactly the same philosophical approach to marketing as Kodak did for over a century. Using professional photographers and more specifically, their work, to make appeals to the majority of the market, amateurs, to buy Epson217;s products. It\u2019s the same old, \u201cyou too can make pictures like this, if you just had our product\u201d.

With the proper organization perhaps we could approach Epson and tell them that we NEED these aftermarket inks and the RIP that drives them and because THEY refuse to make them available, we will have no other choice but to approach Canon and HP (like HP gives a shit about its customers!) to ask for them to provide what we need. Just spitballing, but if enough artists make enough noise and bad press for Epson, perhaps they will reconsider.

Personally, I don\u2019t understand why the idiots don\u2019t provide their OWN refillable cartridges and alternate inks sets. I can think of at least a couple other quite viable options, right off the top of my head. I\u2019m guessing Paul Roark could come up with a dozen!

From a business standpoint, this is Epson\u2019s New Coke, but they refuse to see it.


David Kachel

___________________

Artist-Photographer
Fine B&W Photographs

WEBSITE: www.davidkachel.com
BLOG: thetransparentphotographer.com
EMAIL: david@davidkachel.com

PO Box 1093
Bisbee, AZ 85603
(520) 366-4181

Re: Epson P800 blocks refilling: where do we go from here?

2017-06-13 by rdeloe1@...

Thanks for the ideas and suggestions folks.

Paul, I hope that your legal perspective proves correct. I expect it would take a law suit, but waiting for that to happen is chancy. As I understand it the P800 lock down is limited to the US, so buying a European P800 is an option for some of us (albeit an awkward one if you live in North America).

The 3880 I was after (the one with the 150C error) has sold already but a search this morning of the classifieds shows several reasonably priced options that don't seem to have similar problems. Getting one of those, cleaning it up, and putting it in storage seems to be the way to go.

Re: [Digital BW] Re: Epson P800 blocks refilling: where do we go from here?

2017-06-13 by Paul Roark

Sadly the US and particularly conservative administrations seldom enforce the laws against tying. The difference between the US and European Epson operations reflects the differences in law enforcement of these concepts.
Show quoted textHide quoted text
On Tue, Jun 13, 2017 at 6:06 AM, rdeloe1@... [DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint] <DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

Thanks for the ideas and suggestions folks.

Paul, I hope that your legal perspective proves correct. I expect it would take a law suit, but waiting for that to happen is chancy. As I understand it the P800 lock down is limited to the US, so buying a European P800 is an option for some of us (albeit an awkward one if you live in North America).

The 3880 I was after (the one with the 150C error) has sold already but a search this morning of the classifieds shows several reasonably priced options that don';t seem to have similar problems. Getting one of those, cleaning it up, and putting it in storage seems to be the way to go.


Re: [Digital BW] Re: Epson P800 blocks refilling: where do we go from here?

2017-06-13 by Brian Parkhurst

I've an SC800 and am nearing the end of a second set of Epson inks. I've just bought a set of Marrutt's refills. I'm due to replace several inks as I print my next exhibition. I'll report back. As my work is archival and tours for up to four years, a long life is essential. Previous prints on Marrutt's Lyson stock have proved good over the last decade alongside K series inks that still look good compared with archival selenium toned, bromide and  chlorobromide  prints made between 1965 and 2005

Sent from my iPad
Show quoted textHide quoted text
> On 13 Jun 2017, at 2:06 pm, rdeloe1@... [DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint] <DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com> wrote:
> 
> Thanks for the ideas and suggestions folks. 
> 
> Paul, I hope that your legal perspective proves correct. I expect it would take a law suit, but waiting for that to happen is chancy. As I understand it the P800 lock down is limited to the US, so buying a European P800 is an option for some of us (albeit an awkward one if you live in North America).
> 
> The 3880 I was after (the one with the 150C error) has sold already but a search this morning of the classifieds shows several reasonably priced options that don't seem to have similar problems. Getting one of those, cleaning it up, and putting it in storage seems to be the way to go.
> 
>

Re: [Digital BW] Re: Epson P800 blocks refilling: where do we go from here?

2017-06-14 by David Kachel

Yes, this is related to this thread, though loosely, so bear with me.

While sitting at my desk waiting for Cableone\u2019s tenth outage in eleven days to be over\u2026 (Yeah, you can trust one of the most expensive ISP\u2019s in American, THAT much!!!)
I realized that I have a piece of information tangentially related to this topic, that I have not made any effort to share widely and that should be shared, \u2018cause, you may need it! So\u2026

A little background. I don\u2019t like what ABW offers me, because I make really brown prints and ABW won\u2019t do anything more than sorta brown. So, one of the ways I get brown prints is this: I throw a color fill layer at the very top of my stack of layers (except text; text goes above that if you want it to still be black) and if you care, set it to 43, 100, 12 or 13, depending on my mood. This gives me the brown print I am after without using ABW and without having to actually convert the image to B&W.

One day about three years or so ago, my black inks decided to take a break, so I got a print that had little or no black ink on it. Now, a brown print ought to consist of the black inks, plus yellow and magenta. That\u2019s it. In fact, I have profiles for two different printers using two very different ink sets that prove that works just great. But what I GOT with the black inks absent, in addition to magenta and yellow, was CYAN!!! A LOT OF IT!!! A WHOLE LOT OF IT!!!! A deep, dark, heavy layer of CYAN!!!

So, the lesson here is that whatever you THINK you are laying down on paper using Epson\u2019s driver, Epson is quite possibly nullifying your choices. The cyan ink was mostly, almost exclusively, where the heaviest dark portions of the image were located. So, it seems that Epson thinks cyan can be used to somehow support heavy blacks, or that maybe they think it doesn\u2019t matter what color they put underneath a heavy deposit of dark tones, so they can even out ink usage across the cartridges. Who knows. These don\u2019t even amount to guesses, just baseless speculations. What is certain is that Epson\u2019s driver WILL use inks you don\u2019t expect/want it to use, and it is possible, this same thing is going on with the ABW driver. I didn\u2019t think to make a print using ABW while my black inks were vacationing, because I don217;t use ABW, so I can\u2019t tell you. If you get a black ink failure, make a brown print using ABW to see if Epson is performing this same trick there.



David Kachel

___________________

Artist-Photographer
Fine B&W Photographs

WEBSITE: www.davidkachel.com
BLOG: thetransparentphotographer.com
EMAIL: david@...

PO Box 1093
Bisbee, AZ 85603
(520) 366-4181

Re: Epson P800 blocks refilling: where do we go from here?

2017-06-14 by jon@...

re: "But... the question I posed originally remains: what are people actually doing? What are some options for those of us who want to print 17" wide using a monochrome inkset (Paul's or Jon's)?"

Just get a free 4900. It's a 17" printer built to a much higher standard then the 3880.

Epson inks do not perform well in Epson 4900, 7900 and 9900 printers. One clogged channel and these printers are of no use to a pro shop and may private users who print with OEM inks. They are opting to replace them with a new SureColor (which unfortunately uses the same exact print heads). But nearly every State in the Union prevents the discard of digital equipment. So they sit in corners or are put on palettes in preparation for responsible di$po$al. So many of our customers are picking them up for free. Cone Editions has several 4900, 7900 and 9900 printers we got for free and fully recovered with PiezoFlush. We will pick up another in 10 days. We actually teach workshops on printers we got for free. We even donated a 4900 to Maine Media College to their Historical Alt-Process Center that we fully recovered with PiezoFlush.

PiezoDN requires just 6 working ink channels.
Piezography K7 matte only or Piezography Pro matte only requires just 7 working channels.
Piezography P2 matte and glossy requires just 8 working channels.
Piezography Pro gloss only requires just 8 working channels.
Piezography Pro matte and glossy requires just 9 working channels, although we also have a version for 10 working ink channels.

They are bigger than the 3880 - but they feed paper well and Piezography inks perform better than OEM due to particle size, better filtration, and we use acrylic rather than polyester for the encapsulation material around each pigment particle. So you can get a lot of life out of someone else's abandoned color printer. Any unused channels you just keep in PiezoFlush to preserve them in case you lose a working channel.

That's what we are doing currently. That's what many of our customers are doing.

NO use paying for a new printer when so many free ones are available. Search on Craigslist. Look for fresh printer cadavers of no more than 3 months sitting and you may be able to recover the clogged channels with PiezoFlush. But try and get one where you can nozzle check it and confirm you have enough ink channels to run the Piezography system of your choice. We provide tools for remapping Piezography Curves to match your available ink channels.

best,

Jon Cone
Piezography

Re: Epson P800 blocks refilling: where do we go from here?

2017-06-14 by rdeloe1@...

Jon, that's great advice. Thanks! I hadn't considered a 4900 because they seem to have a bad reputation for clogging. But your suggestion that they work better with Piezography is welcome.

What do you (and others) think about an Epson 3880 that has known 150C error issues? This is the one where it claims a platen gap error. Unplugging it and then plugging it in again often clears it up, but eventually it doesn't and it's a deader. I'm in Canada and for some reason we don't have as many free printers as you seem to have in the US. However, a local fellow is offering one for very little money. If nothing else I suppose I could use parts from my currently working printer to fix this one if I clean it up and put it into storage...

Rob

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