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Recommendation for an A4 B&W-only printer

Recommendation for an A4 B&W-only printer

2017-02-03 by f.cozzi@...

Hello,

I am an amateur B&W photographer with a little experience in wet darkroom printing (RC only, never tried FB, never toned a print).

I would like to print neutral A4 B&W photos with a quality similar to my darkroom prints.

I am not interested in color prints.

Could you suggest a good combination of printer and inks? (I live in Europe, BTW)

I am good with computers and am not scared by complex workflows; however I don't own a densitometer.

Since I am interested in small formats, should I look for a 1.5pl drop size?

My volumes would be quite low; the printer shouldn't clog too often if left unused.

Printer size is quite important. An A4-only printer is fine if this allows a smaller footprint.


I found a second-hand Epson R800. It should be compatible with Eboni - 3MK inks and QuadToneRip. Is this good enough? Are inksets with more inks to be preferred?


Thanks,

Federico

Re: [Digital BW] Recommendation for an A4 B&W-only printer

2017-02-03 by Paul Roark

If it's within reason, I'd be inclined to recommend the European version of the US 1400/1430. I think it's called the 1500.

The R800 with 3MK is good, but it9;s getting old, the MK only is not as smooth as the inksets with dilute inks (though it'll be more neutral, as it's the dilute carbon inks that are warm).

Whether one wants to print on glossy paper is a significant initial question. Eboni is matte paper only. The glossy carbons can print on either, though the Eboni-6 inkset is less expensive if you mix it, and it can be bought pre-mixed from MIS. On the flip side, the STS Ink inputs for the glossy carbons are available in Europe, I believe.

If you want to control tone with these inks, the MIS toner or the one I've formulated made from Canon pigments is what I9;d use.

See http://www.paulroark.com/BW-Info/Eboni-Variable-Tone.pdf,
http://www.paulroark.com/BW-Info/Glossy-Carbon-Variable-Tone.pdf,
and http://www.paulroark.com/BW-Info/Eboni-6.pdf.

Good luck in your search.

Paul
www.PaulRoark.com
http://www.paulroark.com/BW-Info/
Show quoted textHide quoted text
On Fri, Feb 3, 2017 at 2:25 AM, f.cozzi@... [DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint] <DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

Hello,

I am an amateur B&W photographer with a little experience in wet darkroom printing (RC only, never tried FB, never toned a print).

I would like to print neutral A4 B&W photos with a quality similar to my darkroom prints.

I am not interested in color prints.

Could you suggest a good combination of printer and inks? (I live in Europe, BTW)

I am good with computers and am not scared by complex workflows; however I don't own a densitometer.

Since I am interested in small formats, should I look for a 1.5pl drop size?

My volumes would be quite low; the printer shouldn't clog too often if left unused.

Printer size is quite important. An A4-only printer is fine if this allows a smaller footprint.


I found a second-hand Epson R800. It should be compatible with Eboni - 3MK inks and QuadToneRip. Is this good enough? Are inksets with more inks to be preferred?


Thanks,

Federico


Re: Recommendation for an A4 B&W-only printer

2017-02-04 by f.cozzi@...

Hi Paul,
thanks for your reply.
I'll go for the 1500: it looks vastly better and your work on the 1400/1430 is impressive.

I haven't chosen the paper yet. In the inkjet world, which papers are roughly equivalent to Ilford RC Pearl? and FB Glossy?

Thanks,
Federico

Re: [Digital BW] Re: Recommendation for an A4 B&W-only printer

2017-02-05 by Paul Roark

I'd recommend you get a glossy carbon inkset and try some of the baryta papers. Many think they are the closest to the silver print papers. If you generally mount photos under glass or acrylic, I prefer a smooth, "hot press" matte paper.

Paul
www.PaulRoark.com
Show quoted textHide quoted text
On Sat, Feb 4, 2017 at 2:20 PM, f.cozzi@gmail.com [DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint] <DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

Hi Paul,

thanks for your reply.
I'll go for the 1500: it looks vastly better and your work on the 1400/1430 is impressive.

I haven't chosen the paper yet. In the inkjet world, which papers are roughly equivalent to Ilford RC Pearl? and FB Glossy?

Thanks,
Federico


Re: Recommendation for an A4 B&W-only printer

2017-02-06 by f.cozzi@...

Hi Paul,
thanks for your suggestion.
I think I'll start with Ilford Galerie Gold Fibre Silk + a glossy inkset.


I am still puzzled by the different clear bases which are on offer on https://www.inksupply.com/roarkslab:
1. PR-C6BBASE-PT 2. Is this for Eboni (carbon) pigments?
2. PR-CLEARBASE-PT. Is this for diluting Epson Claria (Noritsu) dyes?
3. ESC-BASEPT-UC. What is this for?
If I started with a dye-only inkset, I guess I would need just Epson Claria dyes + PR-CLEARBASE-PT.

In your 2K-2LK approach you use two blacks (K + LK) + two toners. What if one replaced the additional K & LK with additional blacks LLK + LLLK, as in Eboni-4?

Regards,
Federico

Re: [Digital BW] Re: Recommendation for an A4 B&W-only printer

2017-02-06 by Paul Roark

Federico,

>I think I'll start with Ilford Galerie Gold Fibre Silk + a glossy inkset.

That is a good combination.

>I found your document http://www.paulroark.com/BW-Info/1400-Claria-Noritsu-2K2LK.pdf very interesting.

Interesting, yes, and fairly easy, but it's not really the best for longevity. I'm also not sure how economical the Noritsu large carts are unless you're doing a lot of printing.

See footnote one of the above PDF, which gets you to
http://www.paulroark.com/BW-Info/BW-Dye.pdf .
This PDF has a lot of general information about the Claria/Noritsu dyes. The first couple of pages and then the appendix for sources of the Noritsu dyes may be of particular interest.

Note that if you want a long display life you should stay with carbon inks. See http://www.paulroark.com/BW-Info/Glossy-Carbon-Variable-Tone.pdf

>I am still puzzled by the different clear bases which are on offer on https://www.inksupply.com/roarkslab:
1. PR-C6BBASE-PT 2. Is this for Eboni (carbon) pigments?

Yes. My C6B generic base is the one I recommend for Eboni. But for your paper, you need glossy carbon, not Eboni, which is a matte black. It rubs off of glossy papers.

>2. PR-CLEARBASE-PT. Is this for diluting Epson Claria (Noritsu) dyes?

Yes. See https://www.inksupply.com/product-details/pn/PR-CLEARBASE-PT.html?printerID=0

>3. ESC-BASEPT-UC. What is this for?

See https://www.inksupply.com/product-details/pn/ESC-BASEPT-UC.html?printerID=0

That is the MIS "Amber" base. It is for their glossy pigment inks, including the glossy carbon I recommend diluting for the glossy carbon inkset.

See https://www.inksupply.com/product-details/pn/ESC-BASEPT-UC.html?printerID=0

>If I started with a dye-only inkset, I guess I would need just Epson Claria dyes + PR-CLEARBASE-PT.

Show quoted textHide quoted text
​Yes. If you want dyes, use that base, which is found at
https://www.inksupply.com/product-details/pn/PR-CLEARBASE-PT.html?printerID=0

Unless you have a lot of Claria K carts, you'll have to find a good source for the Claria/Noritsu K. That's where you run into the large cart quantities and prices. You might want to check eBay. Pulling ink from small Epson cartridges is not very economical.

>In your 2K-2LK approach you use two blacks (K + LK) + two toners. What if one replaced the additional K & LK with additional blacks LLK + LLLK, as in Eboni-4?

​It could work, but the more dilute the dye K is, the less lightfast. The very light inks are not really needed​ in a 1.5 pl printer. The point of the "2k-2LK" inkset was simplicity of mixing and maintaining the setup, and it works quite well.

BTW, with a dye inkset it is more important than with a pigment inkset to apply a spray after the print is dry to seal it.

Note also that, unlike a carbon inkset, with the dyes the K is less lightfast than the colors. See page 3 of http://www.paulroark.com/BW-Info/4000-Noritsu-2K.pdf for how the color v. Black Only prints color shift in different directions. By using both, you can somewhat offset the color shift, which is what you see first in fading. This would apply also to the 1430/1500 with the Claria dyes if one used QTR and split the printing between color and black only profile. See http://www.paulroark.com/BW-Info/1400-Claria-BW.pdf .

​Good luck with the setup, and let me know if you have questions.

Paul
www.PaulRoark.com ​

Re: Recommendation for an A4 B&W-only printer

2017-02-07 by johnp@...

I don't often post here, but I want to chime in that I've been using a Epson 1430 printer with the
eboni inks. Very little clogging or other headaches. A nice match.

John P

Re: [Digital BW] Re: Recommendation for an A4 B&W-only printer

2017-02-21 by f.cozzi@...

Hi Paul,

I decided to follow your document http://www.paulroark.com/BW-Info/Glossy-Carbon-Variable-Tone.pdf
I ordered an Epson 1500W (just arrived) and these inks: UTHEXPTPK + ESCBASEPTUC + UTTONER4LB (still on their way). I purchased Ilford Galerie Gold Fibre Silk.

How do you mix ink and base? (is the percentage by volume?) Do you inject both into the empty cartridge or use an intermediate container? Do you shake the mix?

I think I understood the basic of building an ink-only QTR profile.
I've got some flatbed scanner calibration targets (http://targets.coloraid.de/) which I could use to linearize the resulting curve.
However I don't understand how to include the toner in the QTR profile. Have you got some documentation on this?
If I compare your profiles
1. ArchesBW-back-Carbon.qidf
2. ArchesBW-back-Neutral.qidf
I see that the second has Y (toner) limit = 30 and a Y curve

Thanks,
Federico

Re: [Digital BW] Re: Recommendation for an A4 B&W-only printer

2017-02-21 by Paul Roark

Federico,

Regarding your http://www.paulroark.com/BW-Info/Glossy-Carbon-Variable-Tone.pdf setup on the 1500:

Mixing inks can be by either weight or volume. I believe the specific gravities of the amber base and PK are close enough that you do not need to worry about the very small differences.

Always mix thoroughly in a separate, clean container before loading the cartridges. I use a stirring rod for mixing, not shaking. Any shaking is going to produce some very small bubbles that take a long time to float to the top. I try to let ink sit for several hours even after I've just agitated my wide format printer carts. Little bubbles in the ink will produce a bad nozzle check.

Regarding how to deal with the toner in a QTR profile, the profiles of mine you looked at are typical of what I do.

After I have partitioned the gray (carbon) inks, the toner is set up using a separate curve for the Y-position ink, which is where the light blue toner ink is put. I draw these curves manually, using the "load curve" selection in the Windows GUI. In the *.qidf curve, these are the coordinates shown just above the linearization values.

You can also just use the default "toner" curves in QTR. You will see in the qidf file a section above the linearization data that deals with these. If I use a default "toner" curve this section will show: N_OF_TONER_PARTS=1. The density setting will move the peak of that curve left and right. The ink limit sets the print warmth. There are some other QTR controls that affect the shape of the curve.

My curve uses more toner ink in the deep shadows than the default QTR toner curve. I do not have recommended settings for the QTR toner curves.

I usually set up a 100% carbon curve and then also use that gray/carbon profile as the core of a neutral (Lab B stays close to the paper base throughout the grayscale. Then I use the QTR profile mixing capabilities to set intermediate tones and split tones.

Hope this helps.

Paul
www.PaulRoark.com


Show quoted textHide quoted text
On Tue, Feb 21, 2017 at 8:38 AM, f.cozzi@gmail.com [DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint] <DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

Hi Paul,


I decided to follow your document http://www.paulroark.com/BW-Info/Glossy-Carbon-Variable-Tone.pdf
I ordered an Epson 1500W (just arrived) and these inks: UTHEXPTPK + ESCBASEPTUC + UTTONER4LB (still on their way). I purchased Ilford Galerie Gold Fibre Silk.

How do you mix ink and base? (is the percentage by volume?) Do you inject both into the empty cartridge or use an intermediate container? Do you shake the mix?

I think I understood the basic of building an ink-only QTR profile.
I've got some flatbed scanner calibration targets (http://targets.coloraid.de/) which I could use to linearize the resulting curve.
However I don't understand how to include the toner in the QTR profile. Have you got some documentation on this?
If I compare your profiles
1. ArchesBW-back-Carbon.qidf
2. ArchesBW-back-Neutral.qidf
I see that the second has Y (toner) limit = 30 and a Y curve

Thanks,
Federico


Re: [Digital BW] Re: Recommendation for an A4 B&W-only printer

2017-03-20 by f.cozzi@...

Hi Paul,

I received the inks today!

Is the MIS light blue toner (e.g. UT-TONER-PT-LB) just cyan + blue or is it already diluted according to your recommendation 25% pigments + 75% base?

For PK you suggest 100%, 50%, 30%, 15%, 9% dilutions. How did you decide this progression? Each one is close to half the previous one, but not exactly so, so I was wondering if one could fine-tune this progression as well.

Thanks,
Federico

Re: [Digital BW] Re: Recommendation for an A4 B&W-only printer

2017-03-21 by Paul Roark


>Is the MIS light blue toner (e.g. UT-TONER-PT-LB) just cyan + blue or is it already diluted according to your recommendation 25% pigments + 75% base?

It is a dilution that is matched to my Canon based 25% pigment, 75% clear base. The MIS version, however, uses their pigments. I don't know the exact formula for it. But I've printed with it using my profiles made for the Canon 25/75 blend, and it works fine.

>For PK you suggest 100%, 50%, 30%, 15%, 9% dilutions. How did you decide this progression?

For many papers, I can get a better dmax with a PK that is more dilute. So, the 50% worked well for that purpose. You just need to keep an eye on roller marks. If they appear, cut back on the dilution so that it dries enough be the time it reaches the exit rollers.

The normal dark to light ink dilution relationship is 30% dark ink, 75% clear base. So, the 15% is 30% of 50%, and the 9% is 30% of 30%. I think running two partitions is better than one. It staggers and hides the cross-overs better.

Paul
www.PaulRoark.com

Re: [Digital BW] Re: Recommendation for an A4 B&W-only printer

2017-04-03 by f.cozzi@...

Hi Paul,
I managed to mix inks and fill carts!
Now I am stuck at QTR profiling...
I am using Ilford Gold Fibre Silk and I would like to build a carbon profile.

With the first ink ink separation print (ink limit = 100%) PK does not visually increase above 45%.
(perhaps a densitometer could find a tiny difference between 45 and 50...)
Increase from 35 to 40, and from 40 to 45, is small. So I decided to use ink limit = 35% + black boost = 45%.
To me, this looks similar to your HPR-Baryta-Carbon which uses ink_limit=45 + boost_k=53

In the second print I found the following relative densities with the help of the scanner of a multi-purpose printer:
C = 53%
M = 36%
LC = 18.5%
LM = 11.50%
which again is quite similar to your HPR-Baryta-Carbon.

Finally I printed 21step.tif (in the QuadToneRip directory) with the newly created profile. To my naked eye, I see some problems:
1. the light patches are quite light
2. the gradient on top shows some tiny banding

I think I can solve point 2 by increasing the gray overlap, as discussed here: http://www.bwmastery.com/blog/2015/in-search-of-the-perfect-qtr-profile
With gray_overlap = 75, gamma = 1.7 the gradient has no banding and looks smoother (more inks firing at the same time?)
However this makes light patches even lighter and the scanner is not able to distinguish them.
If I keep gray_overlap = 75 and revert to gamma 1, light patches do not get much lighter; patch 95 becomes similar to patch 100.

I am thinking that, if I could "pre-linearize" by eye, the real linearization with my scanner could become easier.

Thanks,
Federico

Re: Recommendation for an A4 B&W-only printer

2017-04-04 by richard@...

There are a couple things to try:

First: set the secondary color readout in the Photoshop info panel to 32-it L*a*b* and use those readings for the linearization. 

Better yet would be to use the same readouts and use them in my free correction curve sheet to rough in the gray curve. You could use the 10% steps and make up the intermediate 5% steps you can't read from the scanner and just settle them from the resulting gray curve string before installing the profile. 

The next best option would be to get the deluxe version of my QuadToneProfiler tools that allow for smoothing the shard edges from the default qtr created curves and relinearizing with more control than you can do with other systems out there. 

Hope that helps, 
Richard Boutwell

http://www.richardboutwell.com/
http://www.bwmastery.com/

Re: [Digital BW] Re: Recommendation for an A4 B&W-only printer

2017-04-04 by Paul Roark

Federico,

Regarding your Epson 1500W setup, you asked:

>... Now I am stuck at QTR profiling...
​> ​
I am using Ilford Gold Fibre Silk and I would like to build a carbon profile.

​I assumed you used the mixing and arragnement of the "Glossy Carbon Variable Tone" inkset I described at
http://www.paulroark.com/BW-Info/Glossy-Carbon-Variable-Tone.pdf .
I link in the PDF to my profiles at
http://www.paulroark.com/BW-Info/GlossyCarbon-Profiles.zip .

I see you found the link and profiles.

You might also want to look at the RR(Red River) SGFibber-serial-carbon as well as the HPR-Baryta-carbon profile you mentioned.

Did you just try re-linearizing one of them.

>With the first ink ink separation print (ink limit = 100%) PK does not visually increase above 45%.

You'll see in the profiles I mentioned above that I set the default ink limits to 40 or 45. (I was able to get a little bit more with the boost -- to 52 or 53 -- based on spectro reads.)

>I decided to use ink limit = 35% + black boost = 45%.

That's close.

​>I printed 21step.tif (in the QuadToneRip directory) with the newly created profile.
>To my naked eye, I see some problems:
​> ​
1. the light patches are quite light
​> ​
2. the gradient on top shows some tiny banding

​You can see the pre-linearization values for my profiles in the Linearization tab of the Curve Creator if you're using Windows. You can graph that also. They are light. Yours will be lighter because of your ink limit settings. You can usually increase those somewhat.

The 1400-1500W line is famous for some microbanding in the top and bottom (about) 1 inch (closer to 3 cm) of the image. Both transport rollers need to be engaged for the best paper transport and printing smoothness.

If the problems of banding are in more than the top and bottom areas, you might find the Epson driver smoother. I believe it uses a different way for dealing with those parts. That inkset is Epson driver compatible. I suspect I have a carbon or warm PS image adjustment curve for that approach.

Good luck with the inkset and profiling.

Paul
www.PaulRoark.com








Show quoted textHide quoted text
On Mon, Apr 3, 2017 at 3:03 PM, f.cozzi@gmail.com [DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint] <DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

Hi Paul,

I managed to mix inks and fill carts!
Now I am stuck at QTR profiling...
I am using Ilford Gold Fibre Silk and I would like to build a carbon profile.

With the first ink ink separation print (ink limit = 100%) PK does not visually increase above 45%.
(perhaps a densitometer could find a tiny difference between 45 and 50...)
Increase from 35 to 40, and from 40 to 45, is small. So I decided to use ink limit = 35% + black boost = 45%.
To me, this looks similar to your HPR-Baryta-Carbon which uses ink_limit=45 + boost_k=53

In the second print I found the following relative densities with the help of the scanner of a multi-purpose printer:
C = 53%
M = 36%
LC = 18.5%
LM = 11.50%
which again is quite similar to your HPR-Baryta-Carbon.

Finally I printed 21step.tif (in the QuadToneRip directory) with the newly created profile. To my naked eye, I see some problems:
1. the light patches are quite light
2. the gradient on top shows some tiny banding

I think I can solve point 2 by increasing the gray overlap, as discussed here: http://www.bwmastery.com/blog/2015/in-search-of-the-perfect-qtr-profile
With gray_overlap = 75, gamma = 1.7 the gradient has no banding and looks smoother (more inks firing at the same time?)
However this makes light patches even lighter and the scanner is not able to distinguish them.
If I keep gray_overlap = 75 and revert to gamma 1, light patches do not get much lighter; patch 95 becomes similar to patch 100.

I am thinking that, if I could "pre-linearize" by eye, the real linearization with my scanner could become easier.

Thanks,
Federico


Re: Recommendation for an A4 B&W-only printer

2017-04-04 by f.cozzi@...

Hi Paul,
I found a very simple trick to work around the microbanding in the top and bottom on my 1500W.
I cut a spare sheet in two and I tape those pieces using a very delicate masking tape to the top and bottom of the sheet I want to print on.
Basically from an A4 = 210 * 297 I get a "double A4" 210 * (297/2 + 297 + 297/2). I then set up a custom format in QTR and tell it to print in the middle. It works perfectly.

I guess this custom format could be added to the list by editing the printer PPD file by I haven't tried yet.

Regards,
Federico

Show quoted textHide quoted text

Re: [Digital BW] Re: Recommendation for an A4 B&W-only printer

2017-04-04 by Paul Roark

Excellent modification.

Paul
www.PaulRoark.com
Show quoted textHide quoted text
On Tue, Apr 4, 2017 at 12:05 PM, f.cozzi@... [DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint] <DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

Hi Paul,

I found a very simple trick to work around the microbanding in the top and bottom on my 1500W.
I cut a spare sheet in two and I tape those pieces using a very delicate masking tape to the top and bottom of the sheet I want to print on.
Basically from an A4 = 210 * 297 I get a "double A4" 210 * (297/2 + 297 + 297/2). I then set up a custom format in QTR and tell it to print in the middle. It works perfectly.

I guess this custom format could be added to the list by editing the printer PPD file by I haven't tried yet.

Regards,
Federico



Re: Recommendation for an A4 B&W-only printer

2017-04-04 by brian_downunda@...

Thanks.

http://www.cyberhalides.com/piezography-printing/microbanding-and-gloss-printing-issues-with-qtr/




---In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, <roark.paul@...> wrote :

Excellent modification.

Paul
www.PaulRoark.com
Show quoted textHide quoted text
On Tue, Apr 4, 2017 at 12:05 PM, f.cozzi@... [DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint] <DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

Hi Paul,

I found a very simple trick to work around the microbanding in the top and bottom on my 1500W.
I cut a spare sheet in two and I tape those pieces using a very delicate masking tape to the top and bottom of the sheet I want to print on.
Basically from an A4 = 210 * 297 I get a "double A4" 210 * (297/2 + 297 + 297/2). I then set up a custom format in QTR and tell it to print in the middle. It works perfectly.

I guess this custom format could be added to the list by editing the printer PPD file by I haven't tried yet.

Regards,
Federico



Re: Recommendation for an A4 B&W-only printer

2017-06-08 by f.cozzi@...

Hi Paul,
first of all, many thanks!

I've been printing with your Glossy Carbon Variable Tone setup on my Epson 1500W using Ilford Gold Fibre Silk paper.
I am very happy with the results. I still can't believe that such an inexpensive printer could produce results which are comparable to my darkroom prints.

Now, coming to the last issue I'd like to solve...
I am using your RR-SGFibber and HPR-Baryta profiles with no changes.
The carbon version is too warm for my taste.
On the other hand, the neutral profiles on my printer / paper / toner (I am using undiluted MIS toner and not your original Canon blue+cyan dilution) are too cool.
As a comparison, Ilford Multigrade RC prints are more or less midway between the carbon and the neutral profile.
I also noticed that deep shadows are darker with the neutral profiles than with the carbon profiles; carbon-profile deep shadows are closer to what I see on screen.

I'd like to reduce the toning in the neutral profiles. Can I achieve that just by reducing the ink limit? Or should I change the tone curve instead?

Regards,
Federico


Re: [Digital BW] Re: Recommendation for an A4 B&W-only printer

2017-06-08 by Paul Roark

Are you using QTR? If so, you can blend the profiles.

Paul
www.PaulRoark.com
Show quoted textHide quoted text
On Thu, Jun 8, 2017 at 2:32 PM, f.cozzi@... [DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint] <DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

Hi Paul,

first of all, many thanks!

I've been printing with your Glossy Carbon Variable Tone setup on my Epson 1500W using Ilford Gold Fibre Silk paper.
I am very happy with the results. I still can't believe that such an inexpensive printer could produce results which are comparable to my darkroom prints.

Now, coming to the last issue I'd like to solve...
I am using your RR-SGFibber and HPR-Baryta profiles with no changes.
The carbon version is too warm for my taste.
On the other hand, the neutral profiles on my printer / paper / toner (I am using undiluted MIS toner and not your original Canon blue+cyan dilution) are too cool.
As a comparison, Ilford Multigrade RC prints are more or less midway between the carbon and the neutral profile.
I also noticed that deep shadows are darker with the neutral profiles than with the carbon profiles; carbon-profile deep shadows are closer to what I see on screen.

I'd like to reduce the toning in the neutral profiles. Can I achieve that just by reducing the ink limit? Or should I change the tone curve instead?

Regards,
Federico



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