Digital BW, The Print

I'm having a devil of a time with getting help from MIS. I've got multiple requests, the oldest starting a week ago Monday. I've had some response and was told that the agent needed to talk with a supervisor and would call me in about an hour and a half. That was last Wednesday.

I think, at this point, they are intentionally ignoring me. It's a shame because here's their customer support statement from their website:

"Customer Service 
There are several components of Customer Service, the most important one that goes without saying is attitude. We will bend over backwards to help you in any way we can."

I really want to work with them but they will not return my calls or answer my support requests. I've never, in 15 years in this business, had a vendor like this.

Anyone else experience this?

Clark

From:  zubovak

"I really want to work with them but they will not return my calls or answer
my support requests. I've never, in 15 years in this business, had a vendor
like this."

I'm guessing they're short handed. I placed an order with them a week ago
that has not shipped yet.
Remember, this is a product for which there is little demand and they are a
small company. Some delays are to be expected.
I don't recall them ever answering the phone.


David Kachel

___________________

Artist-Photographer
Fine B&W Photographs

www.davidkachel.com
david@...

Gallery:
www.reddoorfinephotographs.com
director@...

PO Box  1893
Alpine, TX 79831
(432) 386-5787





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

I've been told that to get support, it's best to use either their phone
 [(800) 445-8296 is what they have on the web] or e-mail
support@...

Paul
www.PaulRoark.com


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

I had the same experience earlier this year, but more recently have had prompt service and shipment.

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "zubovak" <bildad@...> wrote:

>
> I'm having a devil of a time with getting help from MIS. I've got multiple requests, the oldest starting a week ago Monday. I've had some response and was told that the agent needed to talk with a supervisor and would call me in about an hour and a half. That was last Wednesday.
> 
> I think, at this point, they are intentionally ignoring me. It's a shame because here's their customer support statement from their website:
> 
> "Customer Service 
> There are several components of Customer Service, the most important one that goes without saying is attitude. We will bend over backwards to help you in any way we can."
> 
> I really want to work with them but they will not return my calls or answer my support requests. I've never, in 15 years in this business, had a vendor like this.
> 
> Anyone else experience this?
> 
> Clark
>

In this vein, if anything should happen to MIS, and assuming Cone would
raise his prices even higher than their current exorbitant level, is there
anywhere else to get carbon B&W inks?

David Kachel

___________________

Artist-Photographer
Fine B&W Photographs

www.davidkachel.com
david@...

Gallery:
www.reddoorfinephotographs.com
director@...

PO Box  1893
Alpine, TX 79831
(432) 386-5787




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Afaik, MIS is the distributor for Image Specialist inks. I think that's
what Eboni is.  If MIS were to go away, there should be other ways to get
the ink.


On Tue, Jul 30, 2013 at 2:38 PM, David Kachel <david@...> wrote:

> **
>
>
> In this vein, if anything should happen to MIS, and assuming Cone would
> raise his prices even higher than their current exorbitant level, is there
> anywhere else to get carbon B&W inks?
>
>
> David Kachel
>
> ___________________
>
> Artist-Photographer
> Fine B&W Photographs
>
> www.davidkachel.com
> david@...
>
> Gallery:
> www.reddoorfinephotographs.com
> director@...
>
> PO Box 1893
> Alpine, TX 79831
> (432) 386-5787
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>  
>


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Hello,
 
Epson Artisan 837 b&w printing problem.
 
I am new to the group and wonder if anyone can give me some ideas for trying to figure out why my black and white prints have magenta or purple shadows?  
 
I have tried with selecting the black and white only on the menu and regular.  I use photoshop cs6 and have tried to let Adobe or the printer control the colors with no luck.  The ink levels read ok, with the black reading somewhat low, but it says not empty.   Is there some way to make the printer stop ruining otherwise nice looking prints with funky colored shadows?
 
Thanks,

Curt

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

As long as Image Specialists is in business we're OK.

They, no doubt, purchase from yet another larger supplier.

Carbon pigments have been made for a very long time by a number of large
companies.  I suspect we'll always be able to find sources.

Paul


On Tue, Jul 30, 2013 at 12:49 PM, pdesmidt tds.net <pdesmidt@...> wrote:

> Afaik, MIS is the distributor for Image Specialist inks. I think that's
> what Eboni is.  If MIS were to go away, there should be other ways to get
> the ink.
>
>
> On Tue, Jul 30, 2013 at 2:38 PM, David Kachel <david@...>
> wrote:
>
> > **
> >
> >
> > In this vein, if anything should happen to MIS, and assuming Cone would
> > raise his prices even higher than their current exorbitant level, is
> there
> > anywhere else to get carbon B&W inks?
> >
> >
> > David Kachel
> >
> > ___________________
> >
> > Artist-Photographer
> > Fine B&W Photographs
> >
> > www.davidkachel.com
> > david@...
> >
> > Gallery:
> > www.reddoorfinephotographs.com
> > director@...
> >
> > PO Box 1893
> > Alpine, TX 79831
> > (432) 386-5787
> >
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> >
> >
> >
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------
>
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

That printer uses Claria inks like the Epson 1430 (was 1400).  See the
materials that relate to that printer on my pages, starting with Quick
Links -- the first subtitle at http://www.paulroark.com/BW-Info/ .

Claria ink in the usual Epson color arrangement cannot make good B&W prints
without QuadToneRip -- http://www.quadtonerip.com/html/QTRoverview.html.  I
doubt the 837 is supported.  Whether there is a way to trick QTR into
driving it is beyond me.

If B&W were your only target, there are inksets that can use the Epson
driver and make good B&W prints with that type of printer.  None of these
has been tested and profiled specifically for that printer, however, so
there will be some user work needed to perfect any system I've been
involved with.

Hope this helps.

Paul
www.PaulRoark.com


On Tue, Jul 30, 2013 at 1:05 PM, CB <curtisbliss@...> wrote:

> **
>
>
> Hello,
>
> Epson Artisan 837 b&w printing problem.
>
> I am new to the group and wonder if anyone can give me some ideas for
> trying to figure out why my black and white prints have magenta or purple
> shadows?
>
> I have tried with selecting the black and white only on the menu and
> regular.  I use photoshop cs6 and have tried to let Adobe or the printer
> control the colors with no luck.  The ink levels read ok, with the black
> reading somewhat low, but it says not empty.   Is there some way to make
> the printer stop ruining otherwise nice looking prints with funky colored
> shadows?
>
> Thanks,
>
> Curt
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>  
>


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Clark:

I'm a long-time MIS customer and I have to agree that their customer service can be sketchy. One thing to note is that they put their responses up on their customer service web page and sometimes you may not get a notification that a response is there. Once you are engaged and using the web site to interact with them, things seem to get better. 

As for shipment delays, I've seen some order take two weeks to arrive, but they always do get delivered and they have yet to screw up an order. 

As noted, they are a small company in a tough business and probably doing the best they can. Cut them a little slack, I think their hearts are in the right place. 

Homer Shannon

Curt:

As others have noted, going to an all-black ink set is the best solution to solve your problem. However, another thread a while back, discussed using the color inks in an Epson 1400/1430 to achieve reasonably good results that did not have any odd tones. 

The thread is posted here http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint/message/106401. I think there may be some information you can glean from this. I tested the process and compared it to UT-14 ink. The UT-14 ink is better, but not by as much as you would think. For occasional black and white prints, I think the methodology is adequate. The comparison of black and white from a color ink set and UT-14 is posted at http://sdrv.ms/SyCTw3. 

Homer Shannon

I agree with Homer's comments. I've had some slow shipments, and sometimes my e-mails don't get answered very promptly... but he's right, it's a small company and they're trying to do the right thing. I have cut them some slack, and I certainly hope they survive. I don't want to add to their woes!

Paul

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "remononaz1" <homershannon@...> wrote:

>
> Clark:
> 
> I'm a long-time MIS customer and I have to agree that their customer service can be sketchy. One thing to note is that they put their responses up on their customer service web page and sometimes you may not get a notification that a response is there. Once you are engaged and using the web site to interact with them, things seem to get better. 
> 
> As for shipment delays, I've seen some order take two weeks to arrive, but they always do get delivered and they have yet to screw up an order. 
> 
> As noted, they are a small company in a tough business and probably doing the best they can. Cut them a little slack, I think their hearts are in the right place. 
> 
> Homer Shannon
>

I'm wondering what the bulk of their business is. Is it selling carbon inksets to artists or do they make a fair share of their money selling bulk systems of straight cmyk+++ to the printing trade.

I work prepress at a sheetfed lithographer and we use two Epson 9600s, two Canon IPF8000s and an Epson 9800 for color proofing and imposition foldup proofs. We go through quite a bit of ink and lately I've been getting pressure to find some savings in ink. I was considering looking into third party inks, specifically, MIS. But with this recent round of non-support I must say that it would be out of the question. 

The quadtone inks for my stuff at home is one thing. Usually no big deal if I have to wait a day or two. But imagine being in a fast paced production environment and having a problem and having to wait a week or more for a resolution. Don't think I wanna put my neck in that noose.

Is it possible to get the base carbon black from somewhere else (Image Specialists) and make the base yourself and mix the various dilutions. I can imagine that is what Paul is doing. No?

What would you need? A good digital scale, some graduated cylinders and a few flasks/beakers.  I already have a nice water distiller. Makes a gallon in about 4 hours.

I can dream can't I?

Clark

On 31 Jul 2013, at 11:25 AM, "zubovak" <bildad@...> wrote:

> Is it possible to get the base carbon black from somewhere else (Image Specialists) and make the base yourself and mix the various dilutions. I can imagine that is what Paul is doing. No?
> 
> What would you need? A good digital scale, some graduated cylinders and a few flasks/beakers.  I already have a nice water distiller. Makes a gallon in about 4 hours.
> 
> I can dream can't I?

It's not that difficult, assuming you're printing grayscale images through QTR. You don't even need the scale: I just dilute by half the volume (50%), then half again (25%), etc., and end up with a decent graduation of shades spread over four or six inks. I use Paul's C6b base recipe, which is easily mixed. (I dilute the Eboni K from MIS, but you could use ink from elsewhere, if you could convince them to sell it to you in small enough quantities.)

You do need the patience to measure the response of those inks, and generate custom QTR curves for the printer/ink/paper combo you're using. You also have to be a bit more careful of pigment settling over time, but it's not a worry for smaller printers or larger ones and a bit of discipline to remember to shake the carts occasionally (and re-linearize to adjust for small changes).

I've been doing it this way for many years, and it works wonderfully. I don't recommend it to people who want a plug-and-play solution, but for those of us more interested in process than product, it's an interesting & enjoyable method.

--John

I contacted precisionink.com who sells inks from image specialists. iI got a prompt reply from them

Hi Kelly
If you search into any of the pigment ink printers for Epson, The Matte
Black 1082 is the base for Carbon printing and is pure carbon.

http://www.precisioncolors.com/E9B_bulk.html

Mike
Is this a possible solution at least for C6?
I have a RMA that I have not received credit for over 6 weeks.
Kelly


-----Original Message-----
From: Kelly Healy [mailto:kellyhealy@...] 
Sent: July-31-13 11:03 AM
To: sales@precisioncolors.com
Subject: ebony black oure carbon

I was wondering if you have a pure carbon ebony black pigment ink in 4 or 16
oz bottles?
Thanks 
Kelly
360 339 3011=




--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, John Labovitz <johnl@...> wrote:

>
> On 31 Jul 2013, at 11:25 AM, "zubovak" <bildad@...> wrote:
> 
> > Is it possible to get the base carbon black from somewhere else (Image Specialists) and make the base yourself and mix the various dilutions. I can imagine that is what Paul is doing. No?
> > 
> > What would you need? A good digital scale, some graduated cylinders and a few flasks/beakers.  I already have a nice water distiller. Makes a gallon in about 4 hours.
> > 
> > I can dream can't I?
> 
> It's not that difficult, assuming you're printing grayscale images through QTR. You don't even need the scale: I just dilute by half the volume (50%), then half again (25%), etc., and end up with a decent graduation of shades spread over four or six inks. I use Paul's C6b base recipe, which is easily mixed. (I dilute the Eboni K from MIS, but you could use ink from elsewhere, if you could convince them to sell it to you in small enough quantities.)
> 
> You do need the patience to measure the response of those inks, and generate custom QTR curves for the printer/ink/paper combo you're using. You also have to be a bit more careful of pigment settling over time, but it's not a worry for smaller printers or larger ones and a bit of discipline to remember to shake the carts occasionally (and re-linearize to adjust for small changes).
> 
> I've been doing it this way for many years, and it works wonderfully. I don't recommend it to people who want a plug-and-play solution, but for those of us more interested in process than product, it's an interesting & enjoyable method.
> 
> --John
>

From:  kelly healy

"I have a RMA that I have not received credit for over 6 weeks."

Ooooh! That is NOT a good sign.


David Kachel

___________________

Artist-Photographer
Fine B&W Photographs

www.davidkachel.com
david@...

Gallery:
www.reddoorfinephotographs.com
director@...

PO Box  1893
Alpine, TX 79831
(432) 386-5787




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Image-Specialists is a ink manufacturer; see this:
http://www.image-specialists.com/about_us.aspx  and this:
http://www.image-specialists.com/about_us_global_dis.aspx

Precision Colors is a distributor of their inks and has very good customer service; I don't know if they can call their black "Eboni."
http://www.precisioncolors.com/E9A_ref.html

Cone imports his inks from either S. Korea or China and has an exclusive distributorship in North America. (If you Google enough you can run this down.)

-----------------------------------------------------------------

> > In this vein, if anything should happen to MIS, and assuming Cone would
> > raise his prices even higher than their current exorbitant level, is there
> > anywhere else to get carbon B&W inks?
> >
> >
> > David Kachel
> >

From:  Michael 

"Cone imports his inks from either S. Korea or China and has an exclusive
distributorship in North America. (If you Google enough you can run this
down."

That is very good information to have. The one thing you can expect absolute
consistency with from SK and China is, inconsistency!


David Kachel

___________________

Artist-Photographer
Fine B&W Photographs

www.davidkachel.com
david@...

Gallery:
www.reddoorfinephotographs.com
director@...

PO Box  1893
Alpine, TX 79831
(432) 386-5787





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

That's an absurd comment, manufacture in both countries can be just as good as anywhere else. What is your problem with Jon Cone? You have made comments about his products in this and other threads which aren't true in my experience. His inks aren't as cheap as MIS but they come with lots of paper profiles, work well and in my experience are always delivered promptly. This latter is not something I have experienced lately with MIS who seem to be suffering from some problems. Just for the record I currently have two printers loaded with Cone B&W inks and three with MIS so I'm as reasonably unbiased. I have been using various ink sets from both suppliers since 2000.

David Whistance

Sent from my iPad

On 31 Jul 2013, at 23:23, David Kachel <david@...> wrote:

> From: Michael 
> 
> "Cone imports his inks from either S. Korea or China and has an exclusive
> distributorship in North America. (If you Google enough you can run this
> down."
> 
> That is very good information to have. The one thing you can expect absolute
> consistency with from SK and China is, inconsistency!
> 
> David Kachel
> 
> ___________________
> 
> Artist-Photographer
> Fine B&W Photographs
> 
> www.davidkachel.com
> david@...
> 
> Gallery:
> www.reddoorfinephotographs.com
> director@...
> 
> PO Box 1893
> Alpine, TX 79831
> (432) 386-5787
> 
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> 
> 


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

From:  David Whistance

"That's an absurd comment, manufacture in both countries can be just as good
as anywhere else."

The key phrase there is "can be". It should be modified with, "and very
often isn't".

I've been to China, specifically to view a large manufacturing setup. My
very first thought was that I hadn't seen such awful junk since Japanese
products in the early 50's.

As for Cone, if you email me privately, I will tell you. I've already said
my piece on the list and don't want to do so again.

David Kachel

___________________

Artist-Photographer
Fine B&W Photographs

www.davidkachel.com
david@...

Gallery:
www.reddoorfinephotographs.com
director@...

PO Box  1893
Alpine, TX 79831
(432) 386-5787




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, John Labovitz <johnl@...> wrote:
 
> It's not that difficult, assuming you're printing grayscale images through QTR. You don't even need the scale: I just dilute by half the volume (50%), then half again (25%), etc., and end up with a decent graduation of shades spread over four or six inks. I use Paul's C6b base recipe, which is easily mixed. (I dilute the Eboni K from MIS, but you could use ink from elsewhere, if you could convince them to sell it to you in small enough quantities.)

I mentioned the scale because I think I saw somewhere that when Paul makes his base, (glycol, wetting agent, anti-fungal etc,) that his recipes are percentages by weight. Maybe I'm mistaken. 

At any rate one must start off with some form of carbon black to mix in the base. And this seems like the tricky bit. A straight matte black is carbon black already in a vehicle such as the bases that are sold by MIS. So it just happens to be diluted to "full strength" of maximum carrying power of the vehicle, if that makes any sense. Now if you are further diluting that it seems that there would have to be serious compatibility twixt the original vehicle and the base used to make the various strengths of LK and LLK and LLLK, no? 

SO this appears to be where MIS and Paul's work with them pays off because they have worked out all the science stuff. I would imagine that you can't just go out and purchase 5 gallons of matte black from Lyson or American Inkjet and start making soup with some glycol, photo flo, antifungal fluid etc. (I don't even know if these companies sell what I need, just an example)

I just bristle thinking of having to work with MIS. I've been on the web looking for alternatives and in the hunt have turned up an alarming number dissatisfied MIS customers out there warning people to steer clear of them. There seems to be a sharp increase in complaints over the last 5 months or so. Better Business bureaus gives them an F. Hell, at resellerratings.com they muster up a whopping score of 1.7 out of ten. It's a shame because they have an awesome product. 

Lots of homework to do. I just got a second 9900 so my backup, Epson 7800, is quietly sitting just itching to get it on with QTR.

Peace

Clark

I have had extremely bad customer service from MIS.

They took several months to ship me some ink - which arrived after
I no longer had a the printer.  They finally said I could return 
it to them, so I got a RMA number and shipped the ink and refill 
kit back to them.

Then I waited for a refund..... that never came.  I made many
attempts to get customer service from them to no avail.

So... If you order something from them and try to return it, you
may be kissing your money goodbye.

I hate to bad-mouth them, but they deserve it.

John P.

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "zubovak" <bildad@...> wrote:

>
> I'm having a devil of a time with getting help from MIS. I've got multiple requests, the oldest starting a week ago Monday. I've had some response and was told that the agent needed to talk with a supervisor and would call me in about an hour and a half. That was last Wednesday.
> 
> I think, at this point, they are intentionally ignoring me. It's a shame because here's their customer support statement from their website:
> 
> "Customer Service 
> There are several components of Customer Service, the most important one that goes without saying is attitude. We will bend over backwards to help you in any way we can."
> 
> I really want to work with them but they will not return my calls or answer my support requests. I've never, in 15 years in this business, had a vendor like this.
> 
> Anyone else experience this?
> 
> Clark
>