Yamaha DTXpress/DTXplorer/DTXtreme

Hey guys!  I really thinking about getting a pm-16 but it almost 
seems like too many pads right?  I mean I could use more pads but I 
don't know if I need 16 more!  Anyways, I was wondering how many 
pads you all use, which kind, and mainly for what?  Thanks!

Hi Under'heaven,

You'll probably get a lot of different answers. I have seven extra 
triggers beyond what my module takes. My critera for what goes 
through my midiKITI (9 additional inputs) is a little complex. The 
first is that I don't want to use pads to signal program changes if 
I don't have to; so I tend to farm out percussion that I want to 
have in all my kits: cross stick from my snare rim, splash, china, 
etc. The second criterion is to minimize crosstalk problems. The 
midiKITI Pro has a pretty good interference control, but why tax it 
if you don't have to? I try to keep its inputs filled with triggers 
that are either on separate stands or are isolated enough not to 
need much extra help. I also do not run triggers that interact with 
one another through separate brains, because then you can't do 
anything about crosstalk when it happens. Two or more chatty 
triggers must be connected to the same unit in order to get the 
benefit of mutual rejection. These stragegies work for me because my 
kits tend to be pretty conservative. I can do most of my fussing on 
the main module without constantly having to make adjustments to my 
supplementary triggers.

Ed

--- In DTXpress@yahoogroups.com, "underneathheaven <realvast@s...>" 
<realvast@s...> wrote:
> Hey guys!  I really thinking about getting a pm-16 but it almost 
> seems like too many pads right?  I mean I could use more pads but 
I 
> don't know if I need 16 more!  Anyways, I was wondering how many 
> pads you all use, which kind, and mainly for what?  Thanks!

Hey ed, now you got me thinking and that means more questions!  What 
do you mean you say you dont wanna use pads for program changes?  
And about the crosstalk stuff, you say you want to use pads that are 
on seperate stands or isolated enough to not need much help, why do 
you say this?  I'm going to be using a pm-16 in the future and I'll 
run into these kinds of problems too right?  I can simply connect my 
module to the pm-16 and go from there correct?  I'm just wondering 
if its a bigger hassle then I think it is working with another midi 
controller.  Thanks!    


--- In DTXpress@yahoogroups.com, "liberatusvirus 
<liberatusvirus@y...>" <liberatusvirus@y...> wrote:
> Hi Under'heaven,
> 
> You'll probably get a lot of different answers. I have seven extra 
> triggers beyond what my module takes. My critera for what goes 
> through my midiKITI (9 additional inputs) is a little complex. The 
> first is that I don't want to use pads to signal program changes 
if 
> I don't have to; so I tend to farm out percussion that I want to 
> have in all my kits: cross stick from my snare rim, splash, china, 
> etc. The second criterion is to minimize crosstalk problems. The 
> midiKITI Pro has a pretty good interference control, but why tax 
it 
> if you don't have to? I try to keep its inputs filled with 
triggers 
> that are either on separate stands or are isolated enough not to 
> need much extra help. I also do not run triggers that interact 
with 
> one another through separate brains, because then you can't do 
> anything about crosstalk when it happens. Two or more chatty 
> triggers must be connected to the same unit in order to get the 
> benefit of mutual rejection. These stragegies work for me because 
my 
> kits tend to be pretty conservative. I can do most of my fussing 
on 
> the main module without constantly having to make adjustments to 
my 
> supplementary triggers.
> 
> Ed
> 
> --- In DTXpress@yahoogroups.com, "underneathheaven 
<realvast@s...>" 
> <realvast@s...> wrote:
> > Hey guys!  I really thinking about getting a pm-16 but it almost 
> > seems like too many pads right?  I mean I could use more pads 
but 

> I 
> > don't know if I need 16 more!  Anyways, I was wondering how many 
> > pads you all use, which kind, and mainly for what?  Thanks!

I thought I smelled something burning. First of all, it won't be 
hard to integrate a PM-16; everything seems harder than it is when 
you know about it only secondhand. The long and short is that you 
simply connect via MIDI in and  MIDI out. Then it's just a matter of 
setting up the PM-16, or whatever you use, to its best advantage. 

On program changes: Let's say you've set things up in such a way 
that when you want to change to another kit on the DTX module, you 
have to change to another kit on the PM-16, too, to get the 
appropriate sounds (MIDI interfaces can use their triggers for 
different kits just like brains). You could use a trigger to move to 
another kit instead of pushing a button on the module or on the PM-
16. But I don't like to waste pads on program changes, or press a 
lot of buttons, so I only have one kit on my KITI that never has to 
change, even though I may change kits from time to time on the DTX. 

On crosstalk: The DTX module allows you to set rejection parameters 
in the trigger menu that protect triggers from interfering with each 
other. The KITI has its own parameters for minimizing crosstalk 
between its pads as well (I don't know about the PM-16's). I prefer 
to use triggers in the KITI that don't jostle each other, either 
because they aren't near each other on the rack or because their 
very nature shields them from crosstalk. It's a matter of keeping 
the fussiness level down. But if you can deal with these things in 
the DTX, you can deal with them elsewhere without too much trouble.

None of these issues should change your mind about expanding. They 
just go with the territory. You already use parameters on the DTX; 
you'll just have to use them again, more or less, on the PM-16. My 
strategy is to find ways of keeping that sort of activity down, but 
I can't eliminate it altogether. Nor would I expect to.


--- In DTXpress@yahoogroups.com, "underneathheaven <realvast@s...>" 
<realvast@s...> wrote:
> Hey ed, now you got me thinking and that means more questions!  
What 
> do you mean you say you dont wanna use pads for program changes?  
> And about the crosstalk stuff, you say you want to use pads that 
are 
> on seperate stands or isolated enough to not need much help, why 
do 
> you say this?  I'm going to be using a pm-16 in the future and 
I'll 
> run into these kinds of problems too right?  I can simply connect 
my 
> module to the pm-16 and go from there correct?  I'm just wondering 
> if its a bigger hassle then I think it is working with another 
midi 
> controller.  Thanks!    
> 
> 
> --- In DTXpress@yahoogroups.com, "liberatusvirus 
> <liberatusvirus@y...>" <liberatusvirus@y...> wrote:
> > Hi Under'heaven,
> > 
> > You'll probably get a lot of different answers. I have seven 
extra 
> > triggers beyond what my module takes. My critera for what goes 
> > through my midiKITI (9 additional inputs) is a little complex. 
The 
> > first is that I don't want to use pads to signal program changes 
> if 
> > I don't have to; so I tend to farm out percussion that I want to 
> > have in all my kits: cross stick from my snare rim, splash, 
china, 
> > etc. The second criterion is to minimize crosstalk problems. The 
> > midiKITI Pro has a pretty good interference control, but why tax 
> it 
> > if you don't have to? I try to keep its inputs filled with 
> triggers 
> > that are either on separate stands or are isolated enough not to 
> > need much extra help. I also do not run triggers that interact 
> with 
> > one another through separate brains, because then you can't do 
> > anything about crosstalk when it happens. Two or more chatty 
> > triggers must be connected to the same unit in order to get the 
> > benefit of mutual rejection. These stragegies work for me 
because 
> my 
> > kits tend to be pretty conservative. I can do most of my fussing 
> on 
> > the main module without constantly having to make adjustments to 
> my 
> > supplementary triggers.
> > 
> > Ed
> > 
> > --- In DTXpress@yahoogroups.com, "underneathheaven 
> <realvast@s...>" 
> > <realvast@s...> wrote:
> > > Hey guys!  I really thinking about getting a pm-16 but it 
almost 
> > > seems like too many pads right?  I mean I could use more pads 
> but 
> > I 
> > > don't know if I need 16 more!  Anyways, I was wondering how 
many 
> > > pads you all use, which kind, and mainly for what?  Thanks!

Ohhhhh, I got ya I got ya!  So you could keep all your aux 
percussion on the KITI for example and change your primary sets via 
the module!  Awesome!  Why did you choose the KITI and how much does 
it run now a days?  Also, you should post pics of your set!


--- In DTXpress@yahoogroups.com, "liberatusvirus 
<liberatusvirus@y...>" <liberatusvirus@y...> wrote:
> I thought I smelled something burning. First of all, it won't be 
> hard to integrate a PM-16; everything seems harder than it is when 
> you know about it only secondhand. The long and short is that you 
> simply connect via MIDI in and  MIDI out. Then it's just a matter 
of 
> setting up the PM-16, or whatever you use, to its best advantage. 
> 
> On program changes: Let's say you've set things up in such a way 
> that when you want to change to another kit on the DTX module, you 
> have to change to another kit on the PM-16, too, to get the 
> appropriate sounds (MIDI interfaces can use their triggers for 
> different kits just like brains). You could use a trigger to move 
to 
> another kit instead of pushing a button on the module or on the PM-
> 16. But I don't like to waste pads on program changes, or press a 
> lot of buttons, so I only have one kit on my KITI that never has 
to 
> change, even though I may change kits from time to time on the 
DTX. 
> 
> On crosstalk: The DTX module allows you to set rejection 
parameters 
> in the trigger menu that protect triggers from interfering with 
each 
> other. The KITI has its own parameters for minimizing crosstalk 
> between its pads as well (I don't know about the PM-16's). I 
prefer 
> to use triggers in the KITI that don't jostle each other, either 
> because they aren't near each other on the rack or because their 
> very nature shields them from crosstalk. It's a matter of keeping 
> the fussiness level down. But if you can deal with these things in 
> the DTX, you can deal with them elsewhere without too much trouble.
> 
> None of these issues should change your mind about expanding. They 
> just go with the territory. You already use parameters on the DTX; 
> you'll just have to use them again, more or less, on the PM-16. My 
> strategy is to find ways of keeping that sort of activity down, 
but 
> I can't eliminate it altogether. Nor would I expect to.
> 
> 
> --- In DTXpress@yahoogroups.com, "underneathheaven 
<realvast@s...>" 
> <realvast@s...> wrote:
> > Hey ed, now you got me thinking and that means more questions!  
> What 
> > do you mean you say you dont wanna use pads for program 
changes?  
> > And about the crosstalk stuff, you say you want to use pads that 
> are 
> > on seperate stands or isolated enough to not need much help, why 
> do 
> > you say this?  I'm going to be using a pm-16 in the future and 
> I'll 
> > run into these kinds of problems too right?  I can simply 
connect 
> my 
> > module to the pm-16 and go from there correct?  I'm just 
wondering 
> > if its a bigger hassle then I think it is working with another 
> midi 
> > controller.  Thanks!    
> > 
> > 
> > --- In DTXpress@yahoogroups.com, "liberatusvirus 
> > <liberatusvirus@y...>" <liberatusvirus@y...> wrote:
> > > Hi Under'heaven,
> > > 
> > > You'll probably get a lot of different answers. I have seven 
> extra 
> > > triggers beyond what my module takes. My critera for what goes 
> > > through my midiKITI (9 additional inputs) is a little complex. 
> The 
> > > first is that I don't want to use pads to signal program 
changes 
> > if 
> > > I don't have to; so I tend to farm out percussion that I want 
to 
> > > have in all my kits: cross stick from my snare rim, splash, 
> china, 
> > > etc. The second criterion is to minimize crosstalk problems. 
The 
> > > midiKITI Pro has a pretty good interference control, but why 
tax 
> > it 
> > > if you don't have to? I try to keep its inputs filled with 
> > triggers 
> > > that are either on separate stands or are isolated enough not 
to 
> > > need much extra help. I also do not run triggers that interact 
> > with 
> > > one another through separate brains, because then you can't do 
> > > anything about crosstalk when it happens. Two or more chatty 
> > > triggers must be connected to the same unit in order to get 
the 
> > > benefit of mutual rejection. These stragegies work for me 
> because 
> > my 
> > > kits tend to be pretty conservative. I can do most of my 
fussing 
> > on 
> > > the main module without constantly having to make adjustments 
to 
> > my 
> > > supplementary triggers.
> > > 
> > > Ed
> > > 
> > > --- In DTXpress@yahoogroups.com, "underneathheaven 
> > <realvast@s...>" 
> > > <realvast@s...> wrote:
> > > > Hey guys!  I really thinking about getting a pm-16 but it 
> almost 
> > > > seems like too many pads right?  I mean I could use more 
pads 

> > but 
> > > I 
> > > > don't know if I need 16 more!  Anyways, I was wondering how 
> many 
> > > > pads you all use, which kind, and mainly for what?  Thanks!

You got it exactly. Check out the running discussion between Jadie 
and me about the KITI and its availability. I liked the KITI because 
its triggering is really versatile; it picks up just about every 
pad, cymbal, and acoustic trigger ever made (not to mention that the 
company is located in my home state). You don't have to squint to 
read from a tiny LCD window; all the information is conveyed via the 
lights on the KITI's large face. When it first came out in the late 
80s, it cost about $500. The close-out price in the late 90s for the 
Pro version, which represented a genuine advance over the original, 
was $200. They had been popping up from time to time on ebay, 
usually fetching anywhere from $70 to $100, though Jade has not had 
much luck finding one there lately, and private sales from 
individuals or dealers tend to run much higher ($200, for instance, 
w/o power supply). Rumor has it that Alternate Mode is considering 
manufacturing it again, but don't hold your breath. The PM-16 is 
definitely a viable option, but it seems to be scarce recently, too. 
Walt owned one, and others on this board probably can help with it. 

--- In DTXpress@yahoogroups.com, "underneathheaven <realvast@s...>" 
<realvast@s...> wrote:
> Ohhhhh, I got ya I got ya!  So you could keep all your aux 
> percussion on the KITI for example and change your primary sets 
via 
> the module!  Awesome!  Why did you choose the KITI and how much 
does 
> it run now a days?  Also, you should post pics of your set!
> 
> 
> --- In DTXpress@yahoogroups.com, "liberatusvirus 
> <liberatusvirus@y...>" <liberatusvirus@y...> wrote:
> > I thought I smelled something burning. First of all, it won't be 
> > hard to integrate a PM-16; everything seems harder than it is 
when 
> > you know about it only secondhand. The long and short is that 
you 
> > simply connect via MIDI in and  MIDI out. Then it's just a 
matter 
> of 
> > setting up the PM-16, or whatever you use, to its best 
advantage. 
> > 
> > On program changes: Let's say you've set things up in such a way 
> > that when you want to change to another kit on the DTX module, 
you 
> > have to change to another kit on the PM-16, too, to get the 
> > appropriate sounds (MIDI interfaces can use their triggers for 
> > different kits just like brains). You could use a trigger to 
move 
> to 
> > another kit instead of pushing a button on the module or on the 
PM-
> > 16. But I don't like to waste pads on program changes, or press 
a 
> > lot of buttons, so I only have one kit on my KITI that never has 
> to 
> > change, even though I may change kits from time to time on the 
> DTX. 
> > 
> > On crosstalk: The DTX module allows you to set rejection 
> parameters 
> > in the trigger menu that protect triggers from interfering with 
> each 
> > other. The KITI has its own parameters for minimizing crosstalk 
> > between its pads as well (I don't know about the PM-16's). I 
> prefer 
> > to use triggers in the KITI that don't jostle each other, either 
> > because they aren't near each other on the rack or because their 
> > very nature shields them from crosstalk. It's a matter of 
keeping 
> > the fussiness level down. But if you can deal with these things 
in 
> > the DTX, you can deal with them elsewhere without too much 
trouble.
> > 
> > None of these issues should change your mind about expanding. 
They 
> > just go with the territory. You already use parameters on the 
DTX; 
> > you'll just have to use them again, more or less, on the PM-16. 
My 
> > strategy is to find ways of keeping that sort of activity down, 
> but 
> > I can't eliminate it altogether. Nor would I expect to.
> > 
> > 
> > --- In DTXpress@yahoogroups.com, "underneathheaven 
> <realvast@s...>" 
> > <realvast@s...> wrote:
> > > Hey ed, now you got me thinking and that means more 
questions!  
> > What 
> > > do you mean you say you dont wanna use pads for program 
> changes?  
> > > And about the crosstalk stuff, you say you want to use pads 
that 
> > are 
> > > on seperate stands or isolated enough to not need much help, 
why 
> > do 
> > > you say this?  I'm going to be using a pm-16 in the future and 
> > I'll 
> > > run into these kinds of problems too right?  I can simply 
> connect 
> > my 
> > > module to the pm-16 and go from there correct?  I'm just 
> wondering 
> > > if its a bigger hassle then I think it is working with another 
> > midi 
> > > controller.  Thanks!    
> > > 
> > > 
> > > --- In DTXpress@yahoogroups.com, "liberatusvirus 
> > > <liberatusvirus@y...>" <liberatusvirus@y...> wrote:
> > > > Hi Under'heaven,
> > > > 
> > > > You'll probably get a lot of different answers. I have seven 
> > extra 
> > > > triggers beyond what my module takes. My critera for what 
goes 
> > > > through my midiKITI (9 additional inputs) is a little 
complex. 
> > The 
> > > > first is that I don't want to use pads to signal program 
> changes 
> > > if 
> > > > I don't have to; so I tend to farm out percussion that I 
want 
> to 
> > > > have in all my kits: cross stick from my snare rim, splash, 
> > china, 
> > > > etc. The second criterion is to minimize crosstalk problems. 
> The 
> > > > midiKITI Pro has a pretty good interference control, but why 
> tax 
> > > it 
> > > > if you don't have to? I try to keep its inputs filled with 
> > > triggers 
> > > > that are either on separate stands or are isolated enough 
not 
> to 
> > > > need much extra help. I also do not run triggers that 
interact 
> > > with 
> > > > one another through separate brains, because then you can't 
do 
> > > > anything about crosstalk when it happens. Two or more chatty 
> > > > triggers must be connected to the same unit in order to get 
> the 
> > > > benefit of mutual rejection. These stragegies work for me 
> > because 
> > > my 
> > > > kits tend to be pretty conservative. I can do most of my 
> fussing 
> > > on 
> > > > the main module without constantly having to make 
adjustments 
> to 
> > > my 
> > > > supplementary triggers.
> > > > 
> > > > Ed
> > > > 
> > > > --- In DTXpress@yahoogroups.com, "underneathheaven 
> > > <realvast@s...>" 
> > > > <realvast@s...> wrote:
> > > > > Hey guys!  I really thinking about getting a pm-16 but it 
> > almost 
> > > > > seems like too many pads right?  I mean I could use more 
> pads 
> > > but 
> > > > I 
> > > > > don't know if I need 16 more!  Anyways, I was wondering 
how 
> > many 
> > > > > pads you all use, which kind, and mainly for what?  Thanks!