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Re: std midi file question

Re: std midi file question

2003-07-27 by steve_the_composer

--- In xl7@yahoogroups.com, "dwoodaman" <dwoodaman@y...> wrote:
> How would I do 
> this, so that I could have a single midi file that contains the 
> sequence not only for the XL7 but my other external devices as well?
> I hope thats clear enough to make sense to people.
> thx
> Dana

(1) Excellent question.
(2) Very clear what you want to do.
(3) I could be wrong, but here are my thoughts:

Pattern edit mode:

You have 16 TRACKS [T01 --> T16].  You can assign each track as 
follows:

Channel: 01A --> Channel 16B
Dest: none, int, ext, both

Song edit mode:

At the song channel assign menu you have the following:

Channel:  MultiA, MultiB
Dest: none, int, ext, both

I haven't played with all the permutations of these menus, but I 
expect your solution could be found here.

Check out the Channel Assign section in tha manual.  There's a 
graphic which seems to show exactly what you are trying to do.

page 96 of XL-7 OpMan G
page 86 of XL-7 OpMan F & OpMan D

Hope this helps.

Dr. Steve

Re: std midi file question

2003-07-28 by dwoodaman

Yo Dr. -
Yes, that all makes sense to me, since I have managed to send out, 
with varying degress of success, patch change numbers for my other 
gear using MultiB on track 16, all channels set to external.
Here is what I guess I was trying to get across: the setup is like 
this:
I have a four port midi interface. MidiA in and out to my goes to 
interface's connections A ins and outs from the XL7 for all the 
internal XL 7 stuff.
MidiB in and out goes to all my other connected devices, connected to 
In and out B on the midi interface, which is how I am sending patch 
change info to those machines, by inserting patch change commands 
using event - insert. 
Now here is where I have a brain meltdown: I export a midifile from 
the XL7 and open it in Sonar. All the internal tracks, 1-15, are fine 
and work like you would expect. On track 16, there are my patch 
changes to my external gear. If I look at the interface info for each 
midi channel, they are all pointing at the midi in/out of "A" on my 
midi interface. This includes channel 16, which is pointing out of 
the XL to my external devices. So in essense there is nothing in the 
std midi file that is pointing directly at the B interface on my midi 
interface box.
If I try and set a new track to point at midi interface B in Sonar, I 
can do that. However, when I save the file, and reopen, all the 
interfaces again are pointing at the default midi interface, which is 
A. This seems to preclude any way of recording anything on any 
interface other than the default.
So perhaps my real question is: can standard midi files contain 
information to point a specific device to a specific interface? If 
not, how in hell do you dump a standard midi file into the XL and 
control devices connected to the B interface?
Sorry to be so damn long winded, and I will be really grateful for 
any insight you could offer me on this.
thx
Dana




--- In xl7@yahoogroups.com, "steve_the_composer" <smw-mail@p...> 
wrote:
> --- In xl7@yahoogroups.com, "dwoodaman" <dwoodaman@y...> wrote:
> > How would I do 
> > this, so that I could have a single midi file that contains the 
> > sequence not only for the XL7 but my other external devices as 
well?
Show quoted textHide quoted text
> > I hope thats clear enough to make sense to people.
> > thx
> > Dana
> 
> (1) Excellent question.
> (2) Very clear what you want to do.
> (3) I could be wrong, but here are my thoughts:
> 
> Pattern edit mode:
> 
> You have 16 TRACKS [T01 --> T16].  You can assign each track as 
> follows:
> 
> Channel: 01A --> Channel 16B
> Dest: none, int, ext, both
> 
> Song edit mode:
> 
> At the song channel assign menu you have the following:
> 
> Channel:  MultiA, MultiB
> Dest: none, int, ext, both
> 
> I haven't played with all the permutations of these menus, but I 
> expect your solution could be found here.
> 
> Check out the Channel Assign section in tha manual.  There's a 
> graphic which seems to show exactly what you are trying to do.
> 
> page 96 of XL-7 OpMan G
> page 86 of XL-7 OpMan F & OpMan D
> 
> Hope this helps.
> 
> Dr. Steve

Re: [xl7] Re: std midi file question

2003-07-28 by Aaron Eppolito

--- dwoodaman <dwoodaman@...> wrote:
> So perhaps my real question is: can standard midi files contain 
> information to point a specific device to a specific interface? 

The short answer is: no.

The longer answer is yes, but you have to be able to write the software
that reads it, as there's no real standard way.  For your purposes, the
answer is still probably no.

The XL-7 uses text events to save its "routing" info.  If you open the
file up on your computer and view the text events for each track, you
should be able to edit it there, though that will only apply to the
XL-7.

My suggestion would be to save in the native sequencer format until
you're done editing and only export to SMF when you're ready to put it
back in the XL-7.

-Aaron 

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Re: std midi file question

2003-07-28 by dwoodaman

What a drag, I was hoping to get around the limitations of my DX200's 
crappy sequencer by dumping a file into the xl. Not that its a 
problem using Sonar, but it would be great live, since I want to use 
the XL as my live sequencer, and not have to lug an computer around 
with me.
Thanks much for taking the time to respond.
Dana
--- In xl7@yahoogroups.com, Aaron Eppolito <synthesis77@y...> wrote:
> --- dwoodaman <dwoodaman@y...> wrote:
> > So perhaps my real question is: can standard midi files contain 
> > information to point a specific device to a specific interface? 
> 
> The short answer is: no.
> 
> The longer answer is yes, but you have to be able to write the 
software
> that reads it, as there's no real standard way.  For your purposes, 
the
> answer is still probably no.
> 
> The XL-7 uses text events to save its "routing" info.  If you open 
the
> file up on your computer and view the text events for each track, 
you
> should be able to edit it there, though that will only apply to the
> XL-7.
> 
> My suggestion would be to save in the native sequencer format until
> you're done editing and only export to SMF when you're ready to put 
it
Show quoted textHide quoted text
> back in the XL-7.
> 
> -Aaron 
> 
> __________________________________
> Do you Yahoo!?
> Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software
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Re: [xl7] Re: std midi file question

2003-07-28 by Aaron Eppolito

--- dwoodaman <dwoodaman@...> wrote:
> What a drag, I was hoping to get around the limitations of my 
> DX200's crappy sequencer by dumping a file into the xl.

Wait, I'm not quite sure I understand how this fits in with your
original question.  The XL-7 does in fact save "port" routing in SMF
format, but in a text event that only it will use.  Those text events
should make it round trip through other sequencers and come back to the
XL-7 intact, but no other program will obey them.  You should however
be able to see and edit them as they're just text events (that's why I
chose text events!).

I have a feeling I'm not answering the question that you need
answered...  Maybe you could ask again saying what you're tring to
eventually accomplsish?

-Aaron

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Re: std midi file question

2003-07-28 by dwoodaman

Oh - like someone once said, that's different! Here is what I was 
trying to say:
I use an EA1, ER1 and DX200 to come up with patterns using their 
internal sequencers, which are cool but limited. So what I was hoping 
to do was dump the sequences from these boxes into a standard midi 
file, mess with them [especially the DX which only has 16 notes per 
sequence], and combine them with the standard midi file that I write 
from using the internal sequencer on the XL7. At that point, I want 
to dump the whole thing back into the XL7, and use it to control the 
other boxes. The XL is then the master sequencer when I want to go 
live.
OR - are you saying I have to create the external gears sequences 
using the XL7's sequencer?
thanks again and sorry if I am being slow here.
Dana

--- In xl7@yahoogroups.com, Aaron Eppolito <synthesis77@y...> wrote:
> --- dwoodaman <dwoodaman@y...> wrote:
> > What a drag, I was hoping to get around the limitations of my 
> > DX200's crappy sequencer by dumping a file into the xl.
> 
> Wait, I'm not quite sure I understand how this fits in with your
> original question.  The XL-7 does in fact save "port" routing in SMF
> format, but in a text event that only it will use.  Those text 
events
> should make it round trip through other sequencers and come back to 
the
> XL-7 intact, but no other program will obey them.  You should 
however
> be able to see and edit them as they're just text events (that's 
why I
Show quoted textHide quoted text
> chose text events!).
> 
> I have a feeling I'm not answering the question that you need
> answered...  Maybe you could ask again saying what you're tring to
> eventually accomplsish?
> 
> -Aaron
> 
> __________________________________
> Do you Yahoo!?
> Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software
> http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com

Re: std midi file question

2003-07-28 by steve_the_composer

I just did a quick test that relates to the "port" meta-event using 
Cakewalk Professional 3.01 (1994).  I would hope its the same on 
Sonar. 

I saved a multi port sequence as a smf.  Then I loaded the file back. 
The port assignments were intact.

E-Loader's file viewer confirms a port event for each track.  I 
haven't yet tried sending the file to the E-Mu and then getting it 
back.

Track 0 event has the port events for the sysex banks.

Hope this helps.

Dr. Steve

Re: std midi file question

2003-07-28 by dwoodaman

Yes indeed that certainly could. If that is true, then I could put 
say one event on each of the channels that I want to use externally, 
then, I assume, I could copy info from another file in there - yeah, 
that would be perfect. 
Will have to give it a go when I get home tonight.
Thanks much for testing this out.
Dana
--- In xl7@yahoogroups.com, "steve_the_composer" <smw-mail@p...> 
wrote:
> I just did a quick test that relates to the "port" meta-event using 
> Cakewalk Professional 3.01 (1994).  I would hope its the same on 
> Sonar. 
> 
> I saved a multi port sequence as a smf.  Then I loaded the file 
back. 
Show quoted textHide quoted text
> The port assignments were intact.
> 
> E-Loader's file viewer confirms a port event for each track.  I 
> haven't yet tried sending the file to the E-Mu and then getting it 
> back.
> 
> Track 0 event has the port events for the sysex banks.
> 
> Hope this helps.
> 
> Dr. Steve

Re: std midi file question

2003-07-28 by dwoodaman

Yeah, actually I meant insert an event in the file in the XL7 and 
then dump it into Sonar and then mess with it - but your other 
suggestion is even easier. Cool!
thx
--- In xl7@yahoogroups.com, Aaron Eppolito <synthesis77@y...> wrote:
> The XL-7 won't respond to the port event that Cakewalk inserts.  I
> thought about using that event, but Cakewalk was the only sequencer
> that used it, and also, since it would "whack" XL-7 settings without
> user intervention.  (Note the use of "whack" here.)  If you want, 
check
> out the text events in an uploaded XL-7 sequence.  Also, you could
> simply merge all your SMFs from the different sequencers on your PC,
> upload to the XL-7, then set the appropriate tracks to external.  
Once
> you've done that, you should be able to do whatever you want to that
> file and have the port settings retained.
> 
> -Aaron
> 
> --- dwoodaman <dwoodaman@y...> wrote:
> > Yes indeed that certainly could. If that is true, then I could 
put 
> > say one event on each of the channels that I want to use 
externally, 
> > then, I assume, I could copy info from another file in there - 
yeah, 
> > that would be perfect. 
> > Will have to give it a go when I get home tonight.
> > Thanks much for testing this out.
> > Dana
> > --- In xl7@yahoogroups.com, "steve_the_composer" <smw-mail@p...> 
> > wrote:
> > > I just did a quick test that relates to the "port" meta-event 
using
> > 
> > > Cakewalk Professional 3.01 (1994).  I would hope its the same 
on 
> > > Sonar. 
> > > 
> > > I saved a multi port sequence as a smf.  Then I loaded the file 
> > back. 
> > > The port assignments were intact.
> > > 
> > > E-Loader's file viewer confirms a port event for each track.  I 
> > > haven't yet tried sending the file to the E-Mu and then getting 
it 
Show quoted textHide quoted text
> > > back.
> > > 
> > > Track 0 event has the port events for the sysex banks.
> > > 
> > > Hope this helps.
> > > 
> > > Dr. Steve
> > 
> > 
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[xl7] Re: std midi file question

2003-07-29 by Oscar Finch

OK Dana this is THE EASIEST solution by far !!!!!!!!!!Take your DX200 / EA-1 and ER1 SEPERATELY - you must do this one at a time ok.For DX200.Set MP/XL-7 UP as Master DX200 as slave (same settings for both the EA-1 and ER-1) later when needed.)Set midi out XL_7 to midi in DX200 and midi out DX200 to midi in XL-7.OK still with me.Set up a fresh pattern in the XL-7 with blamk tracks.Make sure the DX200 - has its parts assigned to the appropriate midi channels for XL-7 track / channel assignment.Hit record then play on the XL-7 - the DX will slave and shunt/play all it's sequencer data into the XL-7's.This procedure can be repeated for the EA-1 and ER-1, the EA-1 will have to be set to record on 2 midi channel for the 2 synth parts.The ER-1 drives of a single midi channel. I am assuming the DX2000 is 3 part ? ie: drums , awm2 bass voice bank and FM synthesis.I used to do this all the time with my ER-1 / ES-1 and the RS7000.Then go into to edit mode and edit note on velocity etc
  etc which the two units where lacking.I don't own an MP-7 YET (will do in two more weeks) :pSo I'm not to sure how the Command Stations handle NRPRN's . If you have any motion sequences embedded into the Electribe units they may not be recorded if the EMU unit does not respond to standard NRPN control.Hope that helps you some.--- On Mon 07/28, dwoodaman < dwoodaman@... > wrote:From: dwoodaman [mailto: dwoodaman@...]To: xl7@yahoogroups.comDate: Mon, 28 Jul 2003 19:42:07 -0000Subject: [xl7] Re: std midi file questionOh - like someone once said, that's different! Here is what I was trying to say:I use an EA1, ER1 and DX200 to come up with patterns using their internal sequencers, which are cool but limited. So what I was hoping to do was dump the sequences from these boxes into a standard midi file, mess with them [especially the DX which only has 16 notes per sequence], and combine them with the standard midi file that I write from using the internal sequenc
 er on the XL7. At that point, I want to dump the whole thing back into the XL7, and use it to control the other boxes. The XL is then the master sequencer when I want to go live.OR - are you saying I have to create the external gears sequences using the XL7's sequencer?thanks again and sorry if I am being slow here.Dana--- In xl7@yahoogroups.com, Aaron Eppolito wrote:> --- dwoodaman wrote:> > What a drag, I was hoping to get around the limitations of my > > DX200's crappy sequencer by dumping a file into the xl.> > Wait, I'm not quite sure I understand how this fits in with your> original question.  The XL-7 does in fact save "port" routing in SMF> format, but in a text event that only it will use.  Those text events> should make it round trip through other sequencers and come back to the> XL-7 intact, but no other program will obey them.  You should however> be able to see and edit them as they're just text events (that's why I> chose 
 text events!).> > I have a feeling I'm not answering the question that you need> answered...  Maybe you could ask again saying what you're tring to> eventually accomplsish?> > -Aaron> > __________________________________> Do you Yahoo!?> Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software> http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com



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Re: [xl7] Re: std midi file question

2003-07-29 by erik_magrini@Baxter.com

I don't think the Korg's output SMF's, could be wrong though.  At least 
the gear you're trying to sequence it fairly simple, and all of it is 
based on a x0x style interface.  Should be simple to replicate in the 
XL-7's sequencer I would think.

rEalm




I use an EA1, ER1 and DX200 to come up with patterns using their 
internal sequencers, which are cool but limited. So what I was hoping 
to do was dump the sequences from these boxes into a standard midi 
file, mess with them [especially the DX which only has 16 notes per 
sequence], and combine them with the standard midi file that I write 
from using the internal sequencer on the XL7. 






[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Re: std midi file question

2003-07-29 by dwoodaman

Indeed that does sound like the easiest solution, which I am going to 
try out as soon as possible. My DX seems to be having some midi 
issues right now, so I will probably try just using the Korg stuff.
Thanks much for the idea!
Dana
--- In xl7@yahoogroups.com, "Oscar Finch" <Oscar_Finch@e...> wrote:
>  OK Dana this is THE EASIEST solution by far !!!!!!!!!!Take your 
DX200 / EA-1 and ER1 SEPERATELY - you must do this one at a time 
ok.For DX200.Set MP/XL-7 UP as Master DX200 as slave (same settings 
for both the EA-1 and ER-1) later when needed.)Set midi out XL_7 to 
midi in DX200 and midi out DX200 to midi in XL-7.OK still with me.Set 
up a fresh pattern in the XL-7 with blamk tracks.Make sure the DX200 -
 has its parts assigned to the appropriate midi channels for XL-7 
track / channel assignment.Hit record then play on the XL-7 - the DX 
will slave and shunt/play all it's sequencer data into the XL-
7's.This procedure can be repeated for the EA-1 and ER-1, the EA-1 
will have to be set to record on 2 midi channel for the 2 synth 
parts.The ER-1 drives of a single midi channel. I am assuming the 
DX2000 is 3 part ? ie: drums , awm2 bass voice bank and FM 
synthesis.I used to do this all the time with my ER-1 / ES-1 and the 
RS7000.Then go into to edit mode and edit note on velocity etc
>   etc which the two units where lacking.I don't own an MP-7 YET 
(will do in two more weeks) :pSo I'm not to sure how the Command 
Stations handle NRPRN's . If you have any motion sequences embedded 
into the Electribe units they may not be recorded if the EMU unit 
does not respond to standard NRPN control.Hope that helps you some.---
 On Mon 07/28, dwoodaman < dwoodaman@y... > wrote:From: 
dwoodaman [mailto: dwoodaman@y...]To: xl7@y...: Mon, 28 Jul 2003 
19:42:07 -0000Subject: [xl7] Re: std midi file questionOh - like 
someone once said, that's different! Here is what I was trying to 
say:I use an EA1, ER1 and DX200 to come up with patterns using their 
internal sequencers, which are cool but limited. So what I was hoping 
to do was dump the sequences from these boxes into a standard midi 
file, mess with them [especially the DX which only has 16 notes per 
sequence], and combine them with the standard midi file that I write 
from using the internal sequenc
>  er on the XL7. At that point, I want to dump the whole thing back 
into the XL7, and use it to control the other boxes. The XL is then 
the master sequencer when I want to go live.OR - are you saying I 
have to create the external gears sequences using the XL7's sequencer?
thanks again and sorry if I am being slow here.Dana--- In 
xl7@yahoogroups.com, Aaron Eppolito wrote:> --- dwoodaman 
wrote:> > What a drag, I was hoping to get around the 
limitations of my > > DX200's crappy sequencer by dumping a 
file into the xl.> > Wait, I'm not quite sure I understand how 
this fits in with your> original question.  The XL-7 does in fact 
save "port" routing in SMF> format, but in a text event that only 
it will use.  Those text events> should make it round trip through 
other sequencers and come back to the> XL-7 intact, but no other 
program will obey them.  You should however> be able to see and 
edit them as they're just text events (that's why I> chose 
>  text events!).> > I have a feeling I'm not answering the 
question that you need> answered...  Maybe you could ask again 
saying what you're tring to> eventually accomplsish?> > -
Aaron> > __________________________________> Do you Yahoo!?
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