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Re: [xl7] Beat matching (MicroSync - long)

Re: [xl7] Beat matching (MicroSync - long)

2003-01-13 by erik_magrini@Baxter.com

I posted a review of the Red Sound to the this list awhile back, so I'm 
just going to copy that:

"Most of the time (90%) it's pretty good about finding the tempo correctly 
and tracking it nicely.  However it's not something you can just hit Start 
on and forget about.  Drops in the song can cause it to fluctuate 
slightly, and your midi playback DOES stutter a bit when this happens. 
 You can put it into "free-wheeling" mode however, so it won't try and 
find the tempo during quiet parts and that helps.  It also has Nudge 
buttons too, which you'll need to use occasionally to keep it synced up, 
as it's quicker than letting it catch up automatically sometimes.  Also, 
sometimes the tempo will be right, but the first beat will be off, so 
you'll need to nudge it for that reason too.  It's not hard to do, and 
once you get the hang of it it's pretty easy to use.  Mostly it's 
reliability comes down to the records you spin.  Surprisingly my 4/4 
trance records threw it off more than any of my breaks or DnB tracks, so 
you'll need to play around a bit to get a feel for how it will react to 
different styles. 

How do I use it live?  Well I took off one of the end caps on my XL-7 and 
mounted it to that using the included hardware (took some creative 
bending, but it works fine).  The tricky part is taking the audio feed 
from your DJ mixer and routing it to the Micro Sync.  Technically you're 
not supposed to route the sound modules outputs back into the same mixer 
as the tables, but I found that EXTREMELY impractical for real world DJ 
use (who wants to hook up an extra mixer?  Most clubs wouldn't let you 
anyway).  The issue, is that you don't want the Micro sync to be analyzing 
the signal from the XL-7, as that causes a feedback loop (not an audible 
one, but in terms of calculating tempo).  The Micro Sync will be 
calculating the same tempo it's sending out, so it won't work right.  What 
I did (depends on the mixer) is to use the effects sends to send the audio 
signal to the Micro Sync.  I just leave the effect send on the channel the 
XL-7 is plugged into always off, so that audio never gets routed to the 
micro sync.  That way, you just select the channel you're trying to sync 
to, and route it to the FX sends.  BTW the input level for the Micro Sync 
is extremely finicky, it seems to overload very easily (and then stops 
calculating).  Another reason to use effects sends is so you can control 
the send amount.  On say a DJM500 or 600 (what I typically request for 
live use), this works too, but you lose the ability to use the effects at 
the same time, so you'd need to make sure the micro sync is free-wheeling 
before disengaging the effects sends on the mixer."
----------------------------------------------
That was right after I got it, and I've had a year to play with it, so 
here's my thoughts now.  It really does a pretty good job of doing what 
it's supposed to, provided you don't mind getting a little 'hands on' with 
it.  You may need to spend a lot of time nudging it forward or backward 
slightly if you want it to be ultra-tight timing wise, and don't we all. 
The biggest issues are:

1. The fact that they ideally want you to hook up your XL-7 and the 
turntable mixer to another seperate mixer.  You can read the review above 
or the free instructions (download) for the reason why this is.  If your 
DJ mixer has FX sends, it's typically ok to use those, but there's been 
few times I didn't have that option and was left high and dry. 
2. During quiet passages with no drums, the Microsync just stays at the 
current tempo, which is nice.  However, sometimes the beat kicks back in 
and the Microsync needs to adjust itself, and that causes some timing 
hiccups occasionally for a few seconds, it's not as smooth as it could be. 
 This is rare, but it sounds bad when you're working up that huge drop and 
then the XL-7 is out of sync slightly with the record.

While the fact that the BPM display on the XL-7 only goes to whole numbers 
in terms of resolution, I REALLY wish the display read tenths too.  If 
that was the case, I'd probably just use the Micro Sync to get me pretty 
darn close, and then fine tune it manually (and ride it) via the XL-7's 
tempo control/entry wheel.  When my girlfriend spins, sometimes I'll add 
XL-7 parts over her mix and I just do it that way, seems to work better.

Currently, the Red Sound line is still the only gear that accurately 
detects tempo information from an audio source AND generates a MIDI clock 
to use with your external gear.  So there's not any other options out 
there if this doesn't work for you.  I hope this doesn't sound TOO 
negative, because 90% of the time it works great and performs like you'd 
expect.  It's that other 10% that makes you really need to know how to use 
the Red Sound before you take it live.  If you know it's limitations and 
how to deal with them, then it's really not a big deal.  Most of the time 
I use it just to transition from tables to the Xl-7, and in those cases, 
it works great.  (Oh, it's got a HUGE wallwart too, I'm still trying to 
find a smaller one myself).

I'd give it a 8/10.

rEalm





Hello,
I have been dying to ask about beat-matching using an xl-7 and decks. I 
sold my 1200s in order to pay for the xl-7 (I know, how could I? They were 
old but mint and I got top dollar on eBay). Don't worry I didn't sell the 
vinyl.
Can you effectively match the beat of the record using that Red Sound 
Microsync device you mentioned with your xx-7? I found that a Numark 
beatkeeper, which rounds to the nearest whole beat per minute, is 
virtually useless for beatmatching two records. How does the xx-7 manage 
the sync if the Red Sound carries a decimal point? Thanks a bunch for your 
thoughts on this!!!! 
 

 







[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Re: [xl7] Beat matching (MicroSync - long)

2003-01-13 by David DeciBel

I might recommend, if possible, putting the link for the iuma site on the
pole page...    If you think it's logical =)

d.dB
----- Original Message -----
From: <erik_magrini@...>
To: <xl7@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Monday, January 13, 2003 12:32 PM
Subject: Re: [xl7] Beat matching (MicroSync - long)


> I posted a review of the Red Sound to the this list awhile back, so I'm
> just going to copy that:
>
> "Most of the time (90%) it's pretty good about finding the tempo correctly
> and tracking it nicely.  However it's not something you can just hit Start
> on and forget about.  Drops in the song can cause it to fluctuate
> slightly, and your midi playback DOES stutter a bit when this happens.
>  You can put it into "free-wheeling" mode however, so it won't try and
> find the tempo during quiet parts and that helps.  It also has Nudge
> buttons too, which you'll need to use occasionally to keep it synced up,
> as it's quicker than letting it catch up automatically sometimes.  Also,
> sometimes the tempo will be right, but the first beat will be off, so
> you'll need to nudge it for that reason too.  It's not hard to do, and
> once you get the hang of it it's pretty easy to use.  Mostly it's
> reliability comes down to the records you spin.  Surprisingly my 4/4
> trance records threw it off more than any of my breaks or DnB tracks, so
> you'll need to play around a bit to get a feel for how it will react to
> different styles.
>
> How do I use it live?  Well I took off one of the end caps on my XL-7 and
> mounted it to that using the included hardware (took some creative
> bending, but it works fine).  The tricky part is taking the audio feed
> from your DJ mixer and routing it to the Micro Sync.  Technically you're
> not supposed to route the sound modules outputs back into the same mixer
> as the tables, but I found that EXTREMELY impractical for real world DJ
> use (who wants to hook up an extra mixer?  Most clubs wouldn't let you
> anyway).  The issue, is that you don't want the Micro sync to be analyzing
> the signal from the XL-7, as that causes a feedback loop (not an audible
> one, but in terms of calculating tempo).  The Micro Sync will be
> calculating the same tempo it's sending out, so it won't work right.  What
> I did (depends on the mixer) is to use the effects sends to send the audio
> signal to the Micro Sync.  I just leave the effect send on the channel the
> XL-7 is plugged into always off, so that audio never gets routed to the
> micro sync.  That way, you just select the channel you're trying to sync
> to, and route it to the FX sends.  BTW the input level for the Micro Sync
> is extremely finicky, it seems to overload very easily (and then stops
> calculating).  Another reason to use effects sends is so you can control
> the send amount.  On say a DJM500 or 600 (what I typically request for
> live use), this works too, but you lose the ability to use the effects at
> the same time, so you'd need to make sure the micro sync is free-wheeling
> before disengaging the effects sends on the mixer."
> ----------------------------------------------
> That was right after I got it, and I've had a year to play with it, so
> here's my thoughts now.  It really does a pretty good job of doing what
> it's supposed to, provided you don't mind getting a little 'hands on' with
> it.  You may need to spend a lot of time nudging it forward or backward
> slightly if you want it to be ultra-tight timing wise, and don't we all.
> The biggest issues are:
>
> 1. The fact that they ideally want you to hook up your XL-7 and the
> turntable mixer to another seperate mixer.  You can read the review above
> or the free instructions (download) for the reason why this is.  If your
> DJ mixer has FX sends, it's typically ok to use those, but there's been
> few times I didn't have that option and was left high and dry.
> 2. During quiet passages with no drums, the Microsync just stays at the
> current tempo, which is nice.  However, sometimes the beat kicks back in
> and the Microsync needs to adjust itself, and that causes some timing
> hiccups occasionally for a few seconds, it's not as smooth as it could be.
>  This is rare, but it sounds bad when you're working up that huge drop and
> then the XL-7 is out of sync slightly with the record.
>
> While the fact that the BPM display on the XL-7 only goes to whole numbers
> in terms of resolution, I REALLY wish the display read tenths too.  If
> that was the case, I'd probably just use the Micro Sync to get me pretty
> darn close, and then fine tune it manually (and ride it) via the XL-7's
> tempo control/entry wheel.  When my girlfriend spins, sometimes I'll add
> XL-7 parts over her mix and I just do it that way, seems to work better.
>
> Currently, the Red Sound line is still the only gear that accurately
> detects tempo information from an audio source AND generates a MIDI clock
> to use with your external gear.  So there's not any other options out
> there if this doesn't work for you.  I hope this doesn't sound TOO
> negative, because 90% of the time it works great and performs like you'd
> expect.  It's that other 10% that makes you really need to know how to use
> the Red Sound before you take it live.  If you know it's limitations and
> how to deal with them, then it's really not a big deal.  Most of the time
> I use it just to transition from tables to the Xl-7, and in those cases,
> it works great.  (Oh, it's got a HUGE wallwart too, I'm still trying to
> find a smaller one myself).
>
> I'd give it a 8/10.
>
> rEalm
>
>
>
>
>
> Hello,
> I have been dying to ask about beat-matching using an xl-7 and decks. I
> sold my 1200s in order to pay for the xl-7 (I know, how could I? They were
> old but mint and I got top dollar on eBay). Don't worry I didn't sell the
> vinyl.
> Can you effectively match the beat of the record using that Red Sound
> Microsync device you mentioned with your xx-7? I found that a Numark
> beatkeeper, which rounds to the nearest whole beat per minute, is
> virtually useless for beatmatching two records. How does the xx-7 manage
> the sync if the Red Sound carries a decimal point? Thanks a bunch for your
> thoughts on this!!!!
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
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> xl7-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
>
>
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