Emu XL-7 & MP-7 User's Group

Hi,

From what i've seen in the manual adenum even if the
keyboard transmit is set to "off" if you have the channel
set to external for that track the pads will be sent out
to that midi channel.  Yet the only way I have been able
to get the pads to send out is to have transmit set to "on".

Can someone tell me if this is the correct way to control
external devices?

thanks

Jesse

Hi,

From what i've seen in the manual adenum even if the
keyboard transmit is set to "off" if you have the channel
set to external for that track the pads will be sent out
to that midi channel.  Yet the only way I have been able
to get the pads to send out is to have transmit set to "on".

Can someone tell me if this is the correct way to control
external devices?

thanks

Jesse

I have the same question, is that OK?

Christoph


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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Christoph and Jesse,

When EDIT-MIDI menu KEYBOARD OUTPUTS MIDI = "transmit" your pads will always
be sent.

if KEYBOARD OUTPUTS MIDI = "don't transmit" then you will only get MIDI pad
information sent to an external MIDI device if all of the following is true:

    LOCAL=ON (EDIT-CONTROLLERS menu)
    RECHANNELIZE INPUT = on (EDIT-MIDI menu)
    the current selected track has as its destination either EXT or BOTH
(EDIT-PATTERN menu)

So it all depends what your trying to accomplish.  Setting the keyboard to
transmit MIDI basically bypasses the XX-7's internal MIDI routing features
and will always send the pad information to an external device.  the channel
it will send on can be set in the EDIT-CONTROLLERS menu (and if this is set
to "basic" it will always send on the current active channel).  The same
holds true for the knobs which can also be enabled or disabled.  When you
operate the XX-7 in this fashion it is a lot like the panel is a separate
controller that is attached via MIDI to both the XX-7 sequencer, and/or the
Xx-7 sound module, and the external MIDI.

If what your trying to do is have the pads/knobs control your external MIDI
so that those devices act like an extension of the XX-7's sound module and
behave in the same manner when using the sequencer (in other words use the
XX-7's internal MIDI routing features) then the correct setting would be to
have rechannelization on and let each track's settings determine whether the
external device receives the pads/knobs or not.  I believe this is the way
most people will wish to use the XX-7.

There is a time when it is necessary though to turn off rechannelization
when you are trying to control an external MIDI device with the arpeggiator.
See the recent series of posts on this issue for more info.

There are some diagrams on pages 317-321 (latest manual, available online)
which explain this thoroughly, though I believe I have found some minor
errors in the diagrams.  These are helpful if you need to feel your way
though an issue and need some guidance for trying alternatives.

Hit me back if that isn't clear or not what you were looking for.


drk

www.delora.com/music
www.mp3.com/zdrk
drk.iuma.com

> Hi,
> 
> From what i've seen in the manual adenum even if the
> keyboard transmit is set to "off" if you have the channel
> set to external for that track the pads will be sent out
> to that midi channel.  Yet the only way I have been able
> to get the pads to send out is to have transmit set to "on".
> 
> Can someone tell me if this is the correct way to control
> external devices?
> 
> thanks
> 
> Jesse
> 
> I have the same question, is that OK?
> 
> Christoph

> Hit me back if that isn't clear or not what you were looking for.
> 
> 
> drk

That was a great explaination.  I have everything setup
as you described.  I have a midi keyboard controller hooked
up to the mp-7 for input and this works fine controlling
my external devices whent the channel is set to ext.  

Not sure if this helps but the only time I can get the 
pads to work (other than setting transmit to on) is if
I select either multi a or multi b as the channel.
Of course that means its sending on all channels though
and not what I want.  Any ideas on why this setting works
and a single channel doesnt?

Thanks

Jesse

On 12/5/02 12:09 PM, "jesse_medway" <medway808@...> wrote:

> That was a great explaination.  I have everything setup
> as you described.  I have a midi keyboard controller hooked
> up to the mp-7 for input and this works fine controlling
> my external devices whent the channel is set to ext.
> 
> Not sure if this helps but the only time I can get the
> pads to work (other than setting transmit to on) is if
> I select either multi a or multi b as the channel.
> Of course that means its sending on all channels though
> and not what I want.  Any ideas on why this setting works
> and a single channel doesnt?
> 
> Thanks
> 
> Jesse
> 

Lets see if we can get to the bottom of this.

First I am running the most recent OS so if your not that might be a reason
for any discrepancy.

Also just to make sure we are both saying the same thing, when you put a
track in MultA or MultiB the pads do not transmit on all MIDI channels on
that MIDI OUT.  What it does is send out on the channel that corresponds to
the currently active (shown) channel when you bring up the PRESET status
screen (button PRESET in the MIXER/VIEW area).

This part is definitely one of the more arcane parts of the XX-7 and I
believe it has undergone a good deal of changes since OS 1.0.  I will try to
explain how it works based on my experience.

Normally there is a relationship between a track and one internal synth
channel.  By default this is track-1 -> 01A, track-2 -> 02A and so on.  Even
when you assign a track to EXT it still retains this coupling, though the
internal channel no longer receives any MIDI.

You can start getting a flavor for this if you assign say 05A to track-1.
If you are in the PATTERN view mode and you use TRACK/CHANNEL to move to
another track, say track-2, and you switch over to PRESET view mode you will
see channel 02A be displayed (this is because track-2 by default was set to
02A).  Switch back to PATTERN view and go back to track-1 and switch again
to PRESET view and you will see channel 05A displayed because that is what
track-1 is set to.

What is happening here is that the XX-7 is trying to keep the currently
active internal synthesizer channel (which is called the "Basic Channel")
aligned with what a track is setup to control.  Normally since the
relationship is one-to-one you don't notice this sort of behavior.  But as
can be seen from the example it does exist.

Where it gets really weird is when a track is set to MultiA or MultiB.
since potentially the track can now control any of sixteen different
channels the above "channel tie-in" no longer really makes any sense.  What
channel would it change the basic channel to?  So it does nothing and leave
the basic channel (the channel shown in the PRESET view) where it last was
before you went to that track.

If you try this yourself you can pretty much cause a track set to MultiA to
play any of the internal A-channels simply by switching over to PRESET view,
changing the active (Basic) channel and switching back.

This operation occurs even when a track is set to EXT (MultiA EXT/BOTH or
MultiB EXT/BOTH).

So if you are in the habit of selecting the external MIDI device channel
from the PRESET view screen and not the PATTERN-EDIT Channel Assign menu you
will get very inconsistent results.  Here is an example.

In EDIT-PATTERN track assign you set Track-1 to 10A, EXT so you can control
your external MIDI module on output A, MIDI channel 10.  You switch to
PATTERN VIEW, select Track-1 and sure enough the pads are playing you
external synth on channel 10, as you had hoped.  You switch to PRESET view
and notice channel 10A is selected there as well.  Pretty much all as
expected.

Later you decide that you really want Track-1 assigned to external MIDI 05A.
Your in PATTERN view and select Track-1.  You switch to PRESET view, use the
data entry wheel or the TRACK/CHANNEL buttons to select channel 05A because
that is the one you want to have the track control.  You audition by playing
the pads and... nothing.  No sound is heard on the external synth.  Why?

If you were to switch back to PATTERN view you would find, to your surprise
that Track-5 is now displayed.  You grumble, change it back to Track-1,
making a note to yourself that the XX-7 sure is flakey, switch back to
PRESET view and... channel 10A again!!!

I think it is pretty clear what is happening here.  The PRESET view active
channel, the so called Basic channel, is changing when you change tracks and
the track is changing when you change the basic channel.  the XX-7 is
working overtime to kept things this way and it is not what you expect.

Now there is an exception to all of this behavior, a way you can set a
track's active channel from the PRESET view and that is when a track is
assigned to MultiA or MultiB.  Under these conditions when you change to
such a track in the PATTERN view the Basic channel does not change from its
most recent setting (which is usually what it was set to according to the
track before or after depending on the direction you came to the current
track from).  Likewise if you select a track with its assign set to MultiA
or MultiB in the PATTERN view, switch to the PRESET view *you can freely
choose which channel you want to control by the pads simply by changing the
current, active channel.

There is a consistent inner logic to all of this so it is not buggy or
designed poorly.  it just is a very complex problem that has be solved in
the way described.  It works very well most of the time but things can get a
bit strange if you deviate from the "normal" usage.

The single most important thing to remember is that the Basic channel is
always determined by what the currently active channel in the PRESET view.
When you change channels here you are changing the basic channel.  Most of
the time this will have the side effect of also changing the active track,
and if the track changed to has a different setting for EXT then you had on
the track you thought you were on you will not have the pads sending MIDI to
an external device as you thought it should.


drk

www.delora.com/music
www.mp3.com/zdrk
drk.iuma.com

--- drK <drk@...> wrote:
> Lets see if we can get to the bottom of this.

Man, that was an amazingly detailed and spot-on correct post.  I think
you might be giving rEalm and I a run for our money!

Glad for your assistance (and everyone else's!) on the list...

-Aaron

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rEalm


> Man, that was an amazingly detailed and spot-on correct post.  I 
think

> you might be giving rEalm and I a run for our money!
> 
> Glad for your assistance (and everyone else's!) on the list...
> 
> -Aaron

setting for EXT then you had on
> the track you thought you were on you will not have the pads 
sending MIDI to
> an external device as you thought it should.


Whoa..let my head stop spinning for a sec..

I fully understand what you meant about changing the channel
the *wrong* way via the preset edit view.  But I was trying to
change it with the correct pattern edit view just to clear that
part up.

Anyways I had a look around the preset view just to see what
you meant.  Adjusted the channel there, again to further understand
what you were describing.  I wanted to see the relationship between
selecting the channel on the pattern edit view and then seeing it
also appear on the preset view.

Now I dont know what I did but the pads are working fine now.  All
I did was go back and forth a few times to confirm visualy what you
were saying should happen.

I initally tried a blank pattern but when that started working
I went back to the pattern I"m currently working on and its fine
now as well.  I really have no idea what going back and forth a few
times would *fix* it.

So as mysteriously as it stopped working now it's fine again.  

Thanks a LOT for your help.  At least now I understand what could
go wrong so I can avoid it.

Jesse