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Thread

Sysex again

Sysex again

2019-03-23 by shad_dart@...

Ok I know there was talk of using sysex and there is a sysex folder but I can't seem to locate the 

"sysex manual".  


I want to use sysex to control (mute / solo ) each of the 4 layers from my midi keyboard  (Roland A500)


I tried using cc numbers to control the Amp level of each layer, but it doesn't seem to work right all the time, 

especially with randomized patches- (even after copying cords from a template patch)- Also I'd rather not use

up 4 CCs for this task. 


SO I want to use sysex - Ideally through the Layer Solo parameter, but any other way would be fine with me. 


Anyone have any pointers for me, or at least a link to the sysex codes ?


I used to do this back in the day with an Axcess Mapper which could capture sysex from my roland synths 

that would transmit sysex when you moved a slider, but I don't think the CS does that, right?


My old Roland D50 had 4 dedicated switches on the panel for this - it would be cool to mod the CS to have 

those 4 switches for the 4 layers. 


thanks


Paul 


PS the Randomize preset feature doesn't seem completely random - does anyone know how it works exactly?


thanks.  I like it because it steers me a little - I have   ADD I think.  - love to program patches but get lost for hours going in tangents.





Re: [xl7] Re: Sysex again

2019-03-24 by Paul Lanctot

No, not change while note is sustaining - it’s just for when i’m editing the preset. �

thanks!

Sent from my iPhone

On Mar 24, 2019, at 12:03 PM, smw-mail@... [xl7] <xl7@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

> I want to use sysex to control (mute / solo ) each of the 4 layers from my midi keyboard� (Roland A500)
>; . . . Ideally through the Layer Solo parameter, but any other way would be fine with me.
---------------------------------
The manual should be in the folder at Files > Command Station Info.
Also:�
---------------------------------
Are you trying to turn layers on/off while a preset is sounding?
I just tested the "Play Solo Layers" function from the front panel and changes only take effect for the next note trigger, not while a sound is playing.
---------------------------------
I will take a look to see if I can find Layer Solo parameters. I don't remember seeing them before.
I am not sure why lowering the amp levels on the layers didn't work.
Looking at my P2500 for some possibilities you might want to try (not sure they will work, but maybe):
-- Set the Key Range to an extreme you would never use.
-- Set the Amplified to -96 db
-- Set the Volume Envelope to 0%
-- Set the Sound [i.e., sample] Start to an extreme point (beyond the sample size)
Not sure any of these would work, though.
----------------------------------

Re: [xl7] Re: Sysex again

2019-03-24 by smw-mail@...

> No, not change while note is sustaining - it’s just for when i’m editing the preset. 
Good to know.  I tested a few things from the front panel of my P2500 and they were all next-note-triggered changes.  If you are just needing this for editing presets--i.e., during the preset design stages as opposed to during a real-time performance, perhaps the workaround where you have some buttons that set the ROM Instruments to 000:None and other buttons that restore the ROM Instruments one at a time would work.

If you are designing one preset (or preset family) at a time and are using specific ROM Instruments on the 4 layers, you could do this if you had 8 buttons. Not sure this would help if you only have 4 buttons, though.

Hmmmm.  With 4 buttons, using the Edit buffer, if you had a slider to select the layer number, maybe you could have one button to change the ROM Instrument to 000:None.  That would give you 3 buttons to have discrete layer-select + ROM Instrument changes on 3 layers to set them back.

PRESET_SELECT
id = 897 (01h,07h)min = -1; max = 255
(-1 = Edit Buffer)
LAYER_SELECT
id = 898 (02h,07h)min = -1; max = 3 -1 =
Select All Layers 0-3 = Layers 1 - 4

--------------------------------------------
(after 897 and 898 have been set:)

LAYER_INSTRUMENT
id = 1409 (01h,0Bh) min = 0;max = Maximum number of instruments

--------------------------------------------
If knocking the layer volume to -96 would be enough, you could try that. If it would work to use a slider to set the target layer then one button to set the layer volume to -96db and another to set it to +0?

LAYER_VOLUME
id = 1410 (02h,0Bh) min = -96; max = +10

--------------------------------------------
This would have been WORKAROUND 3 in my previous message: If you generally use the main outs, but you can put plugs into sub1 or sub2 out to disconnect their routing, perhaps changing the layer submix would work for you. Select target layer; change to a non-used out; change back to main.

If you use FXA/FXB globally, I am not sure how this would affect the sound you hear.  Also, I wondered if the FX settings explained why changing the AmpVol didn't always work esp. with randomized presets. Not sure if you have FX on or off when you design presets.

LAYER_SUBMIX
id = 1412 (04h,0Bh) min = 0; max = 2
0 = main 1 = sub1 2 = sub2


Re: Sysex again

2019-03-24 by rpcfender@...

Hi Steve
I haven't read the whole thread so please forgive me if I am barking up the wrong tree.

Proteus family 2.2 sysex page 6  for parameter
F0 18 0F dd   = header
55 01 02 = Parameter value edit
02 07 = parameter number = Layer select 
00 00 = value (Layer 1) (-1 = all layers  )
F7 

F0 18 0F dd 55 01 02 02 07 00 00 F7 = Select layer (pp53)
F0 18 0F dd 55 01 02 02 0B 20 7F F7  = layer volume value -96 (pp 59) 
To unmute it you need to remember the value before you turned it off. 
 
You can get most of this stuff from Prodautum.
Jan use to have his output sysex displayed, but I can't see it in the last version.
Instead use MidiOx and loopMidi to see what he is outputting when you click a button.

All the best
Royce

Re: [xl7] Re: Sysex again

2019-03-25 by smw-mail@...

Jan, good to know.  BTW, I'm not sure if you saw my post somewhere (maybe a year ago? in one of the Yahoo! forums or in your bug-reporting forum) that I finally figured one of the causes a crash I experienced with Prodatum's whenever I tried to test drive it over the years.  IIRC it occurs when there is data in a preset pointing to a non-existing resource--e.g., a preset that uses a ROM that is no longer installed-- (not instld).  I don't remember if its just some bogus data that triggers Prodatum's crash/lockup.  If you are interested, I can try to find where I posted the details.

BTW, one of the tools I originally had in mind for Syxer was a data checker to quickly identify erroneous data in a bank file.  Some day . . . .

Royce, good to hear from you on this.  Thanks for the specific sysex code.  If Paul goes for that workaround, it should be helpful.  I assume that dropping the level to -96db should work and that for developing presets, the polyphony issue (voice usage) should not be a problem. 

Thinking about it, in a real-time performance to avoid maxing out polyphony, swapping the ROM Instrument to 000:None might give an advantage.

Also, if Paul (or anyone else) creates original presets from a template using 0db for all layers (AMPLIFIER Volume), there's no need to remember what to reset it to after dropping it to -96db to simulate layer solo: off. 

As you pointed out, the original level would have to restored.  And I just checked a few factory presets--for example: L1=+7db, L2=+10db,L3=-10db, L4=+0db.

It's nice to have the flexibility of all these workarounds and a community of users and software developers to contribute to the knowledge base.

As much as I like the full range of features editors have (like Jan's graphic envelope editors!!!), MIDI-OX is still a reliable and convenient tool to small tasks like sysex stuff.

Paul, I thought of another option (if you are still looking for workarounds)--using embedded sysex commands in the on-board sequencer. For example, I have some dial-able sysex switches to turn Remote Control Mode on and off in out-of-the-way pattern slots--125^7 is RemoteControlOFF, 126^7 is RemoteControlON, etc.

You could do something similar in combination with one (or more) of the sysex command workarounds.  Such as: 110^7 as L1 L2 L3 L4 - 0db, 111^7 as L1 - 0db etc.  for the whole set of permutations.  If this would work for you, you would need software that can save the sysex commands in *.mid files and upload them into the sequencer via e-loader.

For my embedded sysex patterns I used early versions of Cakewalk software, but any tool that allows for editing of sysex commands and saving them within a standard midi file should work.

If you don't have that ability (or would prefer it to be worked out and tested), in a couple of days I should have some time to create some test-of-concept embedded sysex *.mid files.

OH one more thing--Jan, does Prodatum still load a specific multisetup when starting?  As I discovered and mentioned previously, Command Stations and the P2500 seem to save what I call "last-state" data, so when Prodatum automatically loads [used to load] a specific multisetup, the last-state data is overwritten. 

Apologies if I tested this and found out the answer myself in 2.0 (or 2.1 or was it 2.2); I thought it'd be quicker to just ask you as opposed to trying to do another round of tests--esp. since I moved my P2500 off of the PC that I used to test Prodatum.

Steve

Re: Sysex again

2019-03-26 by smw-mail@...

I just managed to get Prodatum 2.0.1 to boot and sync with 1 E-Mu box and I can confirm that the log does display sysex. If anyone wants to use that feature within Prodatum, I found it in the Message Log. If I find a way to use Prodatum to send, receive, display, save, and load strings of custom sysex commands/data, I will try to write that up.

SAMPLE 1:
O.1::F07E7F0601F7
O.2::F07E7F0601F7
O.3::F07E7F0601F7
O.4::F07E7F0601F7
O.5::F07E7F0601F7
O.6::F07E7F0601F7
O.7::F07E7F0601F7
O.8::F07E7F0601F7
O.9::F0180F1955010215030A00F7
I.1::F07E1906021804040600322E3236F7
I.2::F07E1906021804040600322E3236F7
O.10::F0180F19550AF7
I.3::F0180F19550902000403060A00000352000B00000271016E0000046705F7
O.11::F07E190601F7
O.12::F07E190601F7
O.13::F0180F1955010215030A00F7
I.4::F07E1906021804040600322E3236F7
I.5::F07E1906021804040600322E3236F7
O.14::F0180F19550AF7
I.6::F0180F19550902000403060A00000352000B00000271016E0000046705F7
O.15::F0180F1955010215030A00F7
O.16::F0180F19551DF7
I.7::F0180F19551C1400160010001500030020000900323031392D30312D313620414D61696E0000010000000000020000000100010000000000000002007F7F7F7F0000010000000A00000002000200010019004A00470019001A004900480055004B004000410042001100100001000A004F004F005B005D0006002E004000000005000A000C0007000000000000000F003C000A0005000A000100000062000A00000001000000010000000000000000000000000000007F000200030000000000000001007F7F1F00630164004000000000000100000001000A000400640040000000000001000000010000000500640040000000000001000000010000000D0064004000000000000100000001000000100064004100000000000100000001000000000064004000000000000100000001000B001400640040000000000001000000010000000700640040000000000001000000010000003401640040000000000001000000010000000900640040000000000001000000010000004B0264004000000000000100000001000000000164004000000000000100000001000A000C02640040000000000001000000010000000D00640040000000000001000000010000001200640040000000000001000000010000006E0264004000000000000100000001006E0010007F0040007F7F0000010000000100000011007F0040007F7F0000010000000100000012007F0040007F7F0000010000000100000013007F0040007F7F0000010000000100000014007F0040007F7F0000010000000100000015007F0040007F7F0000010000000100000016007F0040007F7F0000010000000100000017007F0040007F7F0000010000000100000018007F0040007F7F0000010000000100000019007F0040007F7F000001000000010000001A007F0040007F7F000001000000010000001B007F0040007F7F000001000000010000001C007F0040007F7F000001000000010000001D007F0040007F7F000001000000010000001E007F0040007F7F000001000000010000001F007F0040007F7F00000100000001000000180002002400000025000000260000002700000028000000290000002A0000002B0000002C0000002D0000002E0000002F000000300000003100000032000000330000003400000035000000360000003700000038000000390000003A0000003B000000100003007F7F000001007F7F000001007F7F000001007F7F000001007F7F000002007F7F000002007F7F000002007F7F000002007F7F000003007F7F000003007F7F000003007F7F000003007F7F000004007F7F000004007F7F000004007F7F00000400F7
O.17::F0180F19552C00007F7FF7
O.18::F0180F1955010204031900F7
O.19::F0180F1955010215030A00F7
O.20::F0180F19550C0400000000F7
I.8::F0180F19550B0400000000323031382D30332D3234202020202020F7
O.21::F0180F19552C01007F7FF7
O.22::F0180F1955010204031900F7
O.23::F0180F1955010215030A00F7
O.24::F0180F19550C0401000000F7

SAMPLE 2:
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