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Thread

Aftertouch problem

Aftertouch problem

2017-02-27 by ricard2010@...

I've noticed a problem with the aftertouch on the pads of my XL-7. When I route aftertouch to, say, the filter, then when I press a pad, the filter initially opens the harder I press the pad (and I have to press pretty hard for this to happen), but then seems to close again when I press even harder. A bit awkward to explain. It works ok with an external aftertouch capable keyboard via MIDI. It's not the main board, I tried swapping it for a spare I have (which has other problems) and the problem persisted.

It's not that much of an issue as I don't really like using aftertouch on the pads anyway. But I'd still like it to work.

Has anyone else noticed something similar? It could be something I've set up incorrectly, although I can't think of what.

BTW, I'm still in awe about the recent upload of the main board schematic to the file section. It doesn't cover the front panel though so in my particular case it is of little help, although I'm sure it will come in very handy when there's a problem on the main board one day.

/Ricard


Re: Aftertouch problem

2017-02-28 by smw-mail@...

I just have the P2500, so I don't have pads--and never played a CS.  Just wondering if there are parameters in OS 2.0 that related to the pads--sensitivity, curve, etc. or if they show up as a source in cords.


Hmmm:

"The velocity and pressure-sensitive keypads can play on any MIDI channel as programmed in the Controllers menu. They are normally set to play on the “Basic” channel, which means that they play the preset currently showing in the preset view screen. The keypads output channel (mono) pressure internally (routed in the PatchCords) and both channel and polyphonic pressure over MIDI."


Maybe that helps explain what's going on.  Possible workaround: route pads out and back in.  Can some DC be added to the destination for something so whatever is being affected doesn't drop so much. 


Without a CS, this is all "in theory," but maybe it will help.  It would seem to explain why you get the difference internally and externally (channel pressure v. note-by-note polyphonic pressure).


Steve


PS: I picked up a CS 4 x 4 knob PCB and was hoping I could turn it into a stand-alone midi controller--so I too, would benefit from that section of the service manual, too.



Re: Aftertouch problem

2017-03-01 by ricard2010@...

---In xl7@yahoogroups.com, <smw-mail@...> wrote :

I just have the P2500, so I don't have pads--and never played a CS.  Just wondering if there are parameters in OS 2.0 that related to the pads--sensitivity, curve, etc. or if they show up as a source in cords.


Hmmm:

"The velocity and pressure-sensitive keypads can play on any MIDI channel as programmed in the Controllers menu. They are normally set to play on the “Basic” channel, which means that they play the preset currently showing in the preset view screen. The keypads output channel (mono) pressure internally (routed in the PatchCords) and both channel and polyphonic pressure over MIDI."


Maybe that helps explain what's going on.  Possible workaround: route pads out and back in.  Can some DC be added to the destination for something so whatever is being affected doesn't drop so much.


---


There's a menu in the controllers menu where one can select one of four response curves as well as off, both for the channel and polyphonic aftertouch generation. I've tried various combinations of parameter values but none of them cures the problem.


A more detailed description of the problem is that when pressing on the pad the aftertouch value increases as the pad is pressed, but after holding it for a fraction of the second the aftertouch value drops back to zero again. Sometimes if I release the pad fast enough there's another surge of aftertouch as it released.


The impression I get is that there is something wrong in the sensing circuit somehow. As an electronics engineer I would characterize it as an otherwise DC level from the sensing circuit being filtered through a capacitor so that it's only the change in level (i.e. the AC component) that appears as a signal. I don't feel like reverse engineering the front panel circuitry (probably a major task) though especially since I don't know if that is fact the problem.


I haven't checked the MIDI output to see what type of data is actually sent though. I should do that.


/Ricard

Re: Aftertouch problem

2017-03-02 by smw-mail@...

I am not an engineer, but the explanation from a non-enginneer's point of view makes sense. I don't remember if anyone in the group has written about issues with the keypad hardware and circuitry. I'd be interested to know about the channel and polyphonic data that gets sent via midi.  Intuitively, it seems to me that there >>might<< be a hardware issue with the design that would require channel aftertouch to drop to zero. But having said that, it then makes no sense that note-by-note aftertouch would be continuous.

I imagine reverse engineering the pads would be overly time consuming and might not even yield an answer.  Maybe eprelectronics has an idea they'd be will to share.  Of course, it might just be "That's the way they designed it."

Again, if you generate a midi file that shows data for both types of aftertouch, I'd be very curious to see what is going on midi wise.

Steve

Re: [xl7] CD-ROM

2017-03-28 by Daniel Forró

Does somebody has (or can make) the image of original CD-ROM which was sold with MP7, XL7 or P2500?
Or is it somewhere for download?

One of my acquaintances would like to get it...

Thanks for any info or link.

Daniel Forro

Re: [xl7] CD-ROM

2017-03-28 by smw-mail@...

All of the contents (manuals, factory songs, and patterns, e-loader, ads for ROMS, etc.) should be available in several places on the internet.  I might have my original P2500 CD somewhere, and it might actually not have any scratches or defects (including from aging); I am not even sure where it is.


Is there something specific your acquaintance wants from the CD? 


Steve

Re: [xl7] CD-ROM

2017-03-29 by Daniel Forró

What I know is he needs a copy of  the CD-ROM called Command Station,  
which was sold with MP7, XL7 or P2500. Probably he lost data in his  
MP7 and there's no standard factory reset, he needs to load data from  
CD-ROM.

Daniel Forro


On Mar 28, 2017, at 11:55 PM, smw-mail@... [xl7] wrote:

>
> All of the contents (manuals, factory songs, and patterns, e-loader,  
> ads for ROMS, etc.) should be available in several places on the  
> internet.  I might have my original P2500 CD somewhere, and it might  
> actually not have any scratches or defects (including from aging); I  
> am not even sure where it is.
>
> Is there something specific your acquaintance wants from the CD?
>
> Steve
>

Re: Aftertouch problem

2017-03-29 by smw-mail@...

>> . . . there's no standard factory reset . . .


PS: In the diagnostics mode there are two functions (1) to do a reset of the all data [basically User presets sequences] and (2) to do a reset of all the data except the sequences [basically just the presets, but not the songs and patterns].


E-loader is needed to update or reload the OS.


Just like the 1 RU P2K variants, powering up while holding down the two cursor keys will get the CS/P2500 into diagnostics mode. I believe the data reset functions are at the end--not sure what the numbers are.


Doing the full data reset [initialization] replaces all the sequences [patterns and songs] with empty sequences. That's why the factory sequences are available in zip files.  E-Loader 1.1 has the ability to transfer sequences between a PC and a CS/P2500. Using usb transfer is much faster than midi transfer, but with the right cables and the proper setup/PC/OS. Both should work. 


If your acquaintance has problems with the transfer, someone here should be able to help diagnose the issue.




Re: [xl7] Re: Aftertouch problem

2017-03-29 by Daniel Forró

Thank you, Steve! This was helpful. I didn't know what is the contents of that CD-ROM. If only patterns and songs, old OS plus old E-loader, maybe manual, then it's easy to get it, even newer versions.

Daniel Forro


On Mar 29, 2017, at 10:05 PM, smw-mail@... [xl7] wrote:


Most in not all of the factory patterns and songs for each version of the CS and the P2500 should be in the files section here; they are available elsewhere on the internet, but since you are here you can download them for your acquaintance. I just looked and the P2500 patterns are here; not sure if that zip file includes the P2500 songs. If not, they should be at the P2500 Yahoo Group. I can probably get them from the P2500 Group and add them here.


The CD would not have the most recent OS; presets (as you know) are on the Sound ROMs; and I think my CD has e-loader 1.0, which was replaced by 1.1.


From what you describe, it sounds like the Factory Presets and Songs are what your acquaintance is looking for.


Hope this helps.

.


Re: [xl7] CD-ROM

2017-03-30 by Gautier Philippe

you can try on this link to get what you want
https://francisfisher.me.uk/problem/2011/emu-legacy-archive/

Philippe


De�: "Daniel Forró danforcz@... [xl7]"
À�: xl7@yahoogroups.com
Envoyé le : Mercredi 29 mars 2017 12h22
Objet�: Re: [xl7] CD-ROM

What I know is he needs a copy of the CD-ROM called Command Station,
which was sold with MP7, XL7 or P2500. Probably he lost data in his
MP7 and there's no standard factory reset, he needs to load data from
CD-ROM.

Daniel Forro

On Mar 28, 2017, at 11:55 PM, smw-mail@... [xl7] wrote:

>
> All of the contents (manuals, factory songs, and patterns, e-loader,
> ads for ROMS, etc.) should be available in several places on the
>; internet. I might have my original P2500 CD somewhere, and it might
> actually not have any scratches or defects (including from aging); I
> am not even sure where it is.
>
> Is there something specific your acquaintance wants from the CD?
>
> Steve
>



Re: Aftertouch problem

2017-04-05 by xmkuchar@...

Thank You, Steve for very detailed reply. In fact, i was not sure, what is in ROM and what can be deleted and must later be re-set from eLoader. AFAIK the other E-MU romplers (the 1U ones) have everything in ROM and nothing from factory presets/patches/songs can be deleted, but in Command Stations is possible to delete factory patterns (not also patches ?). I am right ?

The CD-ROM i want to have for eventual factory reset. i know, that there are some zip archives here, but i am not sure, if they are complette. As E-MU collector (and 2500 owner), i want to have also this CD-ROM at least in ISO image, until I will be able to found one original for sale.
If you will be able to found yours, i will be very happy, if you can make iso image and upload it to my FTP, which i just created on address bacula dot digicon dot cz with login proteus and pw proteus 2500

BTW, if you want something another from E-MU CD's, or for Emulator X just ask :)

Thank you very much,
Martin

Re: Aftertouch problem

2017-04-20 by ricard2010@...

Here's a dump of a pad being pressed than released. The dump actually looks ok as it stands, but what can't be seen is that after I had increased the pressure on the pad up until the maximum aftertouch value was reached, I then maintained or even increased the pressure on the pad, but the  aftertouch level seemingly decreases. Finally there's the note off as I release the pad completely. So the dump shows what I've experiences as hearing when routing the aftertouch to the filter, but it doesn't reflect the actual physical pressure on the pad.

885,11.3117,20:0,1,Note on,72,51,
1226,12.0215,20:0,1,Channel aftertouch,3,,
1231,12.0325,20:0,1,Channel aftertouch,6,,
1234,12.0384,20:0,1,Channel aftertouch,9,,
1242,12.0544,20:0,1,Channel aftertouch,12,,
1247,12.0645,20:0,1,Channel aftertouch,15,,
1253,12.0774,20:0,1,Channel aftertouch,18,,
1260,12.0915,20:0,1,Channel aftertouch,21,,
1267,12.1064,20:0,1,Channel aftertouch,24,,
1270,12.1158,20:0,1,Channel aftertouch,27,,
1277,12.1285,20:0,1,Channel aftertouch,30,,
1288,12.1504,20:0,1,Channel aftertouch,33,,
1300,12.1765,20:0,1,Channel aftertouch,36,,
1308,12.1924,20:0,1,Channel aftertouch,39,,
1318,12.2123,20:0,1,Channel aftertouch,42,,
1323,12.2266,20:0,1,Channel aftertouch,45,,
1333,12.2447,20:0,1,Channel aftertouch,48,,
1339,12.2601,20:0,1,Channel aftertouch,51,,
1349,12.2775,20:0,1,Channel aftertouch,54,,
1358,12.2966,20:0,1,Channel aftertouch,57,,
1373,12.3274,20:0,1,Channel aftertouch,60,,
1385,12.3530,20:0,1,Channel aftertouch,63,,
1393,12.3823,20:0,1,Channel aftertouch,67,,
1406,12.4126,20:0,1,Channel aftertouch,72,,
1416,12.4188,20:0,1,Channel aftertouch,78,,
1426,12.4487,20:0,1,Channel aftertouch,84,,
1431,12.4538,20:0,1,Channel aftertouch,90,,
1439,12.4870,20:0,1,Channel aftertouch,96,,
1447,12.4972,20:0,1,Channel aftertouch,102,,
1456,12.5358,20:0,1,Channel aftertouch,108,,
1462,12.5454,20:0,1,Channel aftertouch,124,,
1471,12.5524,20:0,1,Channel aftertouch,127,,
1532,12.6594,20:0,1,Channel aftertouch,124,,
1537,12.6926,20:0,1,Channel aftertouch,108,,
1542,12.7019,20:0,1,Channel aftertouch,102,,
1545,12.7110,20:0,1,Channel aftertouch,96,,
1554,12.7189,20:0,1,Channel aftertouch,90,,
1566,12.7531,20:0,1,Channel aftertouch,84,,
1576,12.7634,20:0,1,Channel aftertouch,78,,
1651,12.9075,20:0,1,Channel aftertouch,84,,
738,13.0969,20:0,1,Channel aftertouch,90,,
1744,13.1319,20:0,1,Channel aftertouch,78,,
1749,13.1396,20:0,1,Channel aftertouch,84,,
1750,13.1463,20:0,1,Channel aftertouch,72,,
1751,13.1525,20:0,1,Channel aftertouch,78,,
1779,13.1793,20:0,1,Channel aftertouch,84,,
1786,13.2067,20:0,1,Channel aftertouch,72,,
1800,13.2344,20:0,1,Channel aftertouch,78,,
1801,13.2409,20:0,1,Channel aftertouch,67,,
1806,13.2468,20:0,1,Channel aftertouch,63,,
1808,13.2527,20:0,1,Channel aftertouch,67,,
1883,13.3895,20:0,1,Channel aftertouch,60,,
1884,13.3984,20:0,1,Channel aftertouch,63,,
1888,13.4297,20:0,1,Channel aftertouch,57,,
1890,13.4362,20:0,1,Channel aftertouch,60,,
1893,13.4423,20:0,1,Channel aftertouch,54,,
1895,13.4483,20:0,1,Channel aftertouch,57,,
1903,13.4544,20:0,1,Channel aftertouch,51,,
1905,13.4605,20:0,1,Channel aftertouch,54,,
1908,13.4666,20:0,1,Channel aftertouch,48,,
1913,13.4726,20:0,1,Channel aftertouch,51,,
1914,13.4785,20:0,1,Channel aftertouch,45,,
1918,13.5077,20:0,1,Channel aftertouch,48,,
1919,13.5144,20:0,1,Channel aftertouch,42,,
1920,13.5205,20:0,1,Channel aftertouch,45,,
1924,13.5267,20:0,1,Channel aftertouch,39,,
1928,13.5328,20:0,1,Channel aftertouch,42,,
1990,13.6136,20:0,1,Channel aftertouch,36,,
1992,13.6226,20:0,1,Channel aftertouch,39,,
1995,13.6590,20:0,1,Channel aftertouch,33,,
1999,13.6656,20:0,1,Channel aftertouch,36,,
2001,13.6717,20:0,1,Channel aftertouch,30,,
2004,13.6777,20:0,1,Channel aftertouch,33,,
2006,13.6838,20:0,1,Channel aftertouch,27,,
2007,13.6899,20:0,1,Channel aftertouch,30,,
2011,13.6959,20:0,1,Channel aftertouch,24,,
2016,13.7019,20:0,1,Channel aftertouch,21,,
2163,13.9738,20:0,1,Channel aftertouch,24,,
2164,13.9843,20:0,1,Channel aftertouch,18,,
2168,14.0204,20:0,1,Channel aftertouch,21,,
2169,14.0267,20:0,1,Channel aftertouch,15,,
2174,14.0327,20:0,1,Channel aftertouch,18,,
2175,14.0388,20:0,1,Channel aftertouch,12,,
2184,14.0449,20:0,1,Channel aftertouch,15,,
2185,14.0536,20:0,1,Channel aftertouch,9,,
2186,14.0615,20:0,1,Channel aftertouch,12,,
2465,14.6036,20:0,1,Channel aftertouch,15,,
2472,14.6457,20:0,1,Channel aftertouch,9,,
2496,14.6798,20:0,1,Channel aftertouch,12,,
2502,14.6864,20:0,1,Channel aftertouch,6,,
2511,14.7208,20:0,1,Channel aftertouch,9,,
2768,15.2346,20:0,1,Channel aftertouch,6,,
2778,15.2800,20:0,1,Channel aftertouch,9,,
2779,15.2865,20:0,1,Channel aftertouch,3,,
2784,15.2928,20:0,1,Channel aftertouch,0,,
2788,15.2990,20:0,1,Channel aftertouch,3,,
2794,15.3051,20:0,1,Channel aftertouch,0,,
4248,18.3170,20:0,1,Note off,72,64,

/Ricard

Re: [xl7] Aftertouch problem

2018-02-10 by ricard2010@...

Do you know if that auto calibration was something that was done in software, or was it done by the electronics controlling the pad? If it was the latter, it could be a failed component somewhere in the circuitry. I've got a copy of the schematics but it unfortunately only covers the mainboard.