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Incompatible Planet Earth rom with XL-7 2.0

Incompatible Planet Earth rom with XL-7 2.0

2017-02-18 by so4lkursnlp7c4siq7tqm7khpj27nzyuig7vq6zz@...

Hi there,


Just got a Planet Earth module in (yay!), but my Command Station XL-7 os 2.0 won't accept it. 


Tried to use it with the rom alone, and with other rooms too (from the CH5 upwards). With the Planet Earth rom sole installed it just gives me the user patterns. With the XL-7 and MoPhatt rom there are no issues.  


My guess is that this rom is too old and the clock speed is too slow compared to the original Xl-7 rom and MoPhatt rom, so the motherboard of the XL-7 can't deal with it. Can this be? The PE rom module is 'thicker' than the other two. 


Is there a way to get the XL-7 to accept the Planet Earth rom? Since it is a rom I reckon it won't help updating the Planet Earth rack and then try again (this currently has 1.21 installed). 


I guess I'm too daft to find a post on this in this group, sorry about that and any wisdom on this is greatly appreciated!


Prodatum (which is absolutely fabulous) works well with the PE module, so I could live with it, but it would be very sexy to actually have this rom working in the XL-7. 

Re: [xl7] Incompatible Planet Earth rom with XL-7 2.0

2017-02-18 by Matt

My pe works great in my px7.... So I can't help you unfortunately 

On Feb 18, 2017 2:56 AM, "so4lkursnlp7c4siq7tqm7khpj27nzyuig7vq6zz@yahoo.com [xl7]" <xl7@yahoogroups.com> wrote:
 

Hi there,


Just got a Planet Earth module in (yay!), but my Command Station XL-7 os 2.0 won't accept it. 


Tried to use it with the rom alone, and with other rooms too (from the CH5 upwards). With the Planet Earth rom sole installed it just gives me the user patterns. With the XL-7 and MoPhatt rom there are no issues.  


My guess is that this rom is too old and the clock speed is too slow compared to the original Xl-7 rom and MoPhatt rom, so the motherboard of the XL-7 can't deal with it. Can this be? The PE rom module is 'thicker' than the other two. 


Is there a way to get the XL-7 to accept the Planet Earth rom? Since it is a rom I reckon it won't help updating the Planet Earth rack and then try again (this currently has 1.21 installed). 


I guess I'm too daft to find a post on this in this group, sorry about that and any wisdom on this is greatly appreciated!


Prodatum (which is absolutely fabulous) works well with the PE module, so I could live with it, but it would be very sexy to actually have this rom working in the XL-7. 

Re: Incompatible Planet Earth rom with XL-7 2.0

2017-02-20 by so4lkursnlp7c4siq7tqm7khpj27nzyuig7vq6zz@...

'Did you try diagnostics to see if the Rom is recognized by the OS?'

Thanks I'll need to try that too! I assumed that after having installed the PE rom in the XL-7 and the XL-7 did not let me go out of the 'user' preset selection the rom was not recognised. 

The wierd thing with this was that, when I added the PE rom to cha 7 (cha 5 and cha 6 holding the xl-7 and mp-7 rom) I could not go out of the user preset section, suggesting no roms were installed. 

Re: [xl7] Re: Incompatible Planet Earth rom with XL-7 2.0 [2 Attachments]

2017-02-20 by Daniel Forró

No WO and AP numbers?

Daniel Forro


On Feb 20, 2017, at 5:46 PM, so4lkursnlp7c4siq7tqm7khpj27nzyuig7vq6zz@... [xl7] wrote:

The rom works well in the PE unit, though this still has OS 1.21 installed (will be updating the rack later today).�

It passes all tests in the PE rack unit itself. Attached a picture with the PE rom in the PE rack, and a picture of the XL-7 4 rom slots (with default XL-7 in cha 5 and MP-7 in cha 6).�

One side of the PE rom was blank, the other one reads:

A132-1K16-66T1-1
16537651174A-1880

and

CPN
IM343

I'm not a 100% sure about the first two rows of numbers because reading it from the photo. If this row of numbers does not make sense I'll open it again and read directly from the rom.�

Greetings!

Vincent

Re: Incompatible Planet Earth rom with XL-7 2.0

2017-02-20 by smw-mail@...

The pictures help.  You have two sound ROMS installed--IMG_0048). I assume that's the XL and MP ROMs.  Then there's a picture of something that has an IM343 on it.  That doesn't look like a P2K sound ROM to me.  Is that what you are calling the PE sound ROM? If so, it doesn't look like it would be compatible with other P2K systems.  Unfortunately, I do not know much about the PE module.  Maybe that's a custom OS/RAM/Sound ROM that works in the PE module and what you need is the World Expedition ROM that works in any P2K module.

I was hoping the PE rom had labels like the other P2K sound roms.  Not sure what those numbers your posted indicate.  

Re: Incompatible Planet Earth rom with XL-7 2.0

2017-02-20 by smw-mail@...

> No WO and AP numbers?

Yeah--that's what I was hoping it had.  I will try to find pictures on line of the internals of the PE.  Maybe it used a customized rom that is incompatible with the P2K architecture.  I did look at the PE user manual a few days ago and I thought it did use one of the standard P2K sound rom form factors.

Re: Incompatible Planet Earth rom with XL-7 2.0

2017-02-20 by smw-mail@...

Here's the doc I was thinking of:

http://samplersonacid.com/legacy-emus-on-acid/download/Identifying+EMU+ROM+SIMMs+for+Proteus+2K+Family.doc

I didn't see any number that match what you posted.  If you do open up the PE, I hope you can post some jpgs of both sides. Also, it might be useful to know the serial number, model number, and other information from the label on the bottom the the PE unit itself.  Hmmmm. What name shows up for the ROM in the PE module? Just curious.

BTW, as for updating the OS of the PE, I suggest reading all the various release notes. Not sure if your OS needs a prep file to update it to a 2.xx OS.

Some of the OS release notes can be found here (in the P1K folder, the P2K folder, and the Release Notes folder.

http://www.e-univercity.com/SynthGearDocs/

Hope this helps. I cannot imagine updating the PE OS would make it work in the XL-7, but who knows.  Having up to 128 voices in the XL-7 + up to 64 in the PE module wouldn't be bad thing; increases potential polyphony by 50%!!

Steve

Re: Incompatible Planet Earth rom with XL-7 2.0

2017-02-20 by smw-mail@...

I compared your PE shot with the other one I linked. The boards look totally different.  So i looked at more pictures and found one here--scroll down a little over 1/2 way to the B3 overhead view.  The picture you posted looks like what I think is the RAM on the left side next to the power supply; the picture at the site I linked before (with the WO and AP number) looks like the sound ROM on the right side.

http://www.polynominal.com/site/studio/gear/synth/emu-b3/emu-b3.html

By any chance did you transfer the RAM or the Sound ROM into the XL-7?  If so, that might explain why it was thicker and why the OS 2.0 didn't see and Sound ROMs.

Mystery solved?

In any case, I'd go with 128 voices + 64 voices, you might prefer the 3 ROMs in the XL-7, though--assuming it works. 

Steve

Re: Incompatible Planet Earth rom with XL-7 2.0

2017-02-20 by smw-mail@...

  https://www.gearslutz.com/board/attachments/electronic-music-instruments-electronic-music-production/508324d1446187134-whats-proteus-2000-chip-kimg1051.jpg

This is a nice view of the RAM in the foreground with 4 empty Sound ROM slots from a P2000.

 

Re: [xl7] Re: Incompatible Planet Earth rom with XL-7 2.0

2017-02-21 by Daniel Forró

But there are more text lines on the sticker at the left, I suppose he  
didn't send all what is written there...

Daniel Forro


On Feb 21, 2017, at 4:30 AM, smw-mail@... [xl7] wrote:

> > No WO and AP numbers?
>
> Yeah--that's what I was hoping it had.  I will try to find pictures  
> on line of the internals of the PE.  Maybe it used a customized rom  
> that is incompatible with the P2K architecture.  I did look at the  
> PE user manual a few days ago and I thought it did use one of the  
> standard P2K sound rom form factors.
>

Re: [xl7] Re: Incompatible Planet Earth rom with XL-7 2.0

2017-02-21 by Daniel Forró

I think Planet Earth and World expedition are just different names for the same expansion card 9087, number 11.

Posted numbers are unknown...

Daniel Forro


On Feb 21, 2017, at 4:25 AM, smw-mail@... [xl7] wrote:

The pictures help.� You have two sound ROMS installed--IMG_0048). I assume that's the XL and MP ROMs.� Then there's a picture of something that has an IM343 on it.� That doesn't look like a P2K sound ROM to me.� Is that what you are calling the PE sound ROM? If so, it doesn't look like it would be compatible with other P2K systems.� Unfortunately, I do not know much about the PE module.� Maybe that's a custom OS/RAM/Sound ROM that works in the PE module and what you need is the World Expedition ROM that works in any P2K module.

I was hoping the PE rom had labels like the other P2K sound roms.� Not sure what those numbers your posted indicate. �

_

Re: [xl7] Re: Incompatible Planet Earth rom with XL-7 2.0

2017-02-21 by Daniel Forró

It should have these numbers:

WO#58421
AP-12068-11

Maybe also:
IP11556 or IP10574

I bought this card recently and it works in my P2k with OS 2.26.

Daniel Forro


On Feb 21, 2017, at 4:40 AM, smw-mail@... [xl7] wrote:

Hmmm. I never looked, but maybe the slots have cha numbers.� I will have to open an E-Mu box up.

Here's a picture of the kind of numbers I was expecting (probably Daniel was, too). http://thumbs.picclick.com/00/s/MTE5OVgxNjAw/z/OdgAAOSwMgdXyzHk/$/E-mu-Planet-Earth-64-Voice-World-ROM-Sound-Synth-_57.jpg

Somewhere I have a guide someone did to identify E-Mu ROMs. I will try to find that; maybe it lists something that lines up with the numbers you have.  If you do open it up, do any of the chips say Flash or Intel Flash on them?� Also, is there any white lettering on the perimeter of rom circuit board itself (like 32MB ROM with 2MB Flash--or whatever they usually say)?

This is a mystery!!! (And I love to try to solve mysteries!!!) 


Re: [xl7] Re: Incompatible Planet Earth rom with XL-7 2.0

2017-02-21 by Daniel Forró

I think the same.�

Daniel Forro


On Feb 21, 2017, at 5:14 AM, smw-mail@...t [xl7] wrote:

�Having up to 128 voices in the XL-7 + up to 64 in the PE module wouldn't be bad thing; increases potential polyphony by 50%!!

Steve

__.

Re: [xl7] Re: Incompatible Planet Earth rom with XL-7 2.0 [2 Attachments]

2017-02-21 by Daniel Forró

This is really mystery. It doesn't look like the original Emu expansion card - maybe some copy or clone?

But if it works in Planet Earth, there's hardly any problem. I would leave it there and use it with the advantage of more polyphony and MIDI channels together with your XL7.

Daniel Forro


On Feb 21, 2017, at 8:06 PM, so4lkursnlp7c4siq7tqm7khpj27nzyuig7vq6zz@... [xl7] wrote:

Hi guys,�


Thanks again for your responses, a warm bath! I was fearing this to be a tumbleweed area but great to see these E-mu modules get the attention they deserve, such sophisticated machines!

With 'cha' I indeed mean the rom slots on the motherboard of the XL7 where cha 5 is the slot to put the first rom in (the original) and cha 8 the last (being slot 4).�

I updated the PE rack to 2.26, but indeed this did not affect the acceptance of the rom in the XL7 V2.0.�

Attached a front and back picture of this glorious PE rom.�

I've run all tests on the PE unit with OS 2.26, no problem there.�

When trying to run a test on the XL7 with the PE rom in first free rom slot available cha 7 (slot 3, remember cha5 holds the default XL7 rom and cha 6 the MP7) the XL7 does not find *any* rom.�

Just to confirm V2.0 IS the latest os right for the XL7?

My guess is then that either this is PE rom is a very early version, or this is a custom burned rom? Which would surprise me though. The PE unit I bought is practically new and still has the plastic on the screen (must keep myself from peeling that off). 

Thanks again!

Vincent

Re: [xl7] Re: Incompatible Planet Earth rom with XL-7 2.0 [2 Attachments]

2017-02-21 by smw-mail@...

Dan, did you look at the pix I posted links to?  The original PE board jpg at issue here looks like a RAM board.  Maybe I will have to open up a 1 RU box and take some of my own pix to see what I have there.  If I do, I will post pix. 

If I go to the trouble, does anyone want pix of something else inside?

Steve

Re: [xl7] Re: Incompatible Planet Earth rom with XL-7 2.0

2017-02-21 by Daniel Forró

I always thought that the card near the PSU is the main ROM (or Flash ROM) with OS and RAM for user settings, isn't it?

Or each so called SOUND ROM card has its own RAM space for its User programs?�

Daniel Forro


On Feb 21, 2017, at 9:10 PM, smw-mail@... [xl7] wrote:

Dan, did you look at the pix I posted links to?� The original PE board jpg at issue here looks like a RAM board.� Maybe I will have to open up a 1 RU box and take some of my own pix to see what I have there.� If I do, I will post pix.�

If I go to the trouble, does anyone want pix of something else inside?

Steve


Re: [xl7] Re: Incompatible Planet Earth rom with XL-7 2.0

2017-02-21 by Daniel Forró

I did tests with my P2K and Orchestra modules (that one is Japanese  
design variation of Virtuoso). Here are results:

P2K:
- OS 2.26
- Composer card
- World card in slot 2

OS checksum 6C93D828

Test 14:
Slot 1 passed
Slot 2 passed
Slot 3 No ROM in Slot
Slot 4 No ROM in Slot

Test 17:
Slot 1 - 5b996906
Slot 2 - 1c1a027f
Slot 3 - -------------
Slot 4 - -------------

---------------------
Orchestra:
- OS 2.26
- Orchestra 1 in slot 1
- Orchestra 2 in slot 2

OS checksum 6C93D828

Test 14:
Slot 1 passed
Slot 2 passed
Slot 3 No ROM in Slot
Slot 4 No ROM in Slot

Test 17:
Slot 1 - 034a2be9
Slot 2 - a46d2a85
Slot 3 - -------------
Slot 4 - -------------

----------------------

Sound ROMs differs in size, type (ROM or Flash ROM) and voltage - some  
were for 5 Volts, some for 3.3 Volts.

Daniel Forro




On Feb 21, 2017, at 9:05 PM, smw-mail@... [xl7] wrote:

> Did you take pix of the PE sound rom (both sides), not the RAM?
>
> In each box do you have a diagnostics option that shows the Sound  
> ROM check sums?
>
> In OS 2.26 on 1 RU boxes, I get an (11) Program ROM Test check sum  
> of 6C93D828.  If I understand the checksums correctly, OS 2.26  
> should have the same checksum on each 1 RU box.
>
> In OS 2.26 on 1 RU boxes, (17) is Sound Data CRC Test. For me, that  
> shows checksums for 4 rom slots, with -------- showing for the empty  
> slots.
>
> I think it would be good to compare the Sound ROM (not OS) of your  
> PE Sound ROM with what someone else has.
>
> Since the original picture you showed of the PE ROM looks like RAM  
> based on the internet pix I linked, I am wondering if that is the  
> one you put into the PE?
>
> BTW, on my P2500, I get the same OS checksum for OS 2.0: D28DE6CC.
>
> I didn't think the Sound ROMS had different clock speeds.  I will  
> have to double check.
>
> BTW, from what I understand, you can put a P2K Sound ROM in an E-Mu  
> Ultra sampler, although you will just see the samples/multisamples,  
> not the P2K style presets.
>
> This is a curious mystery!!!
>
> Steve
>

Re: Incompatible Planet Earth rom with XL-7 2.0

2017-02-21 by smw-mail@...

> I always thought that the card near the PSU is the main ROM (or Flash ROM) with OS and RAM for user settings, isn't it?
You may be right on this.  I never really looked closely at anything other than the Sound ROMs

> Or each so called SOUND ROM card has its own RAM space for its User programs?
As I understand it, the Sound ROMs have what is called "Baby Flash" used for the P2K/CS style factory presets for that specific Sound ROM, not User Presets.  I never knew where the factory arp patterns and riffs were stored.  Maybe those are in the Baby Flash, too.

So when a Sound ROM says something like 32MB Sound ROM with 2MB Flash, the 32 MB contains the samples and multisamples--which can be seen (and used) by an E-Mu Ultra Sampler.  The 2MB has the P2K presets which cannot be seen by the 32 MB part.

I believe that's why with the Flash Sound ROMs for the Ultra Samplers, you can burn samples/multisamples and basic Ultra Sampler presets, but to create P2K style presets, you need to "author" them and write them using a P2K/CS; not the Ultra sampler. The P2K/CS OSes have a utility in the Save menu system to copy User Bank presets to Flash ROMS with the samples/multisamples put there by the Ultra sampler.

Finally, thanks for the breakdown on your P2K and Orchestra diagnostic results. I started a chart a few years ago and if I can find it, will add your Sound ROM Checksums.

I also have a Virtuoso 2000 with OS 2.26. So the OS check sum is the same as what you have. For ORCH1, I get the same checksum as you: 034a2be9. At the highest factory preset location (127^2), the preset-as-ROM-identifier says: V2K 1,2.

However, for ORCH2, my checksum is c9669bac (different than what you have).  The highest preset-as-ROM-identifier is in location 127^1 and is called: V2KRom2 V1.0.  I am guessing that yours (the Japanese Orchestra version) has either a different ORCH2 ROM. If so, I wonder if the samnples/multisamples are the same or different, if the presets are the same or different than the ORCH2 ROM I have.

Again, thanks for posting the details.

Steve





Re: [xl7] Re: Incompatible Planet Earth rom with XL-7 2.0

2017-02-22 by Daniel Forró


On Feb 22, 2017, at 1:50 AM, smw-mail@... [xl7] wrote:

Finally, thanks for the breakdown on your P2K and Orchestra diagnostic results. I started a chart a few years ago and if I can find it, will add your Sound ROM Checksums.


This is good idea. I have mentioned some data are missing in your table, I will send it later.


I also have a Virtuoso 2000 with OS 2.26. So the OS check sum is the same as what you have. For ORCH1, I get the same checksum as you: 034a2be9. At the highest factory preset location (127^2), the preset-as-ROM-identifier says: V2K 1,2.

Yes, it is:
V2K 1.2


However, for ORCH2, my checksum is c9669bac (different than what you have).� The highest preset-as-ROM-identifier is in location 127^1 and is called: V2KRom2 V1.0.� I am guessing that yours (the Japanese Orchestra version) has either a different ORCH2 ROM. If so, I wonder if the samnples/multisamples are the same or different, if the presets are the same or different than the ORCH2 ROM I have.

According to Owner's Manual for Virtuoso (and Japanese Owner's Manual for Orchestra) there's only one bank of presets for ORCH2 card - ORCH2-0, which is also what I have inside. So it's interesting you have 2 banks, that means totally 5 banks... Also all descriptions and promotion leaflet say there's 512 RAM and 512 ROM presets, and you have 640 ROM... Probably that's also the reason why you have different checksum.
But I have found the SYX file for ORCH2-1 which you mention, and it is loaded in my Orchestra User 1 bank. The first preset is wnd:Woodwinds, the last is V2KRom2 V1.0. Of course it works, all samples for presets are there on the card.

Here is comparison table for my module, Japanese Orchestra OM, English Virtuoso OM (let's hope formatting will stay as I did it).

My module Japanese Orchestra OM English Virtuoso OM
User 0� 000�str:Virtuoso 000 str:Virtuoso 000 vln:16 Leg Str
127 lnk:PtchdTimpLnk 127 lnk:PtchdTimpLnk 127 str:SlackLgStdSt

User 1 000 wnd: Woodwinds 000 str:Second Mass 000�str:Virtuoso
127 V2KRom2 V1.0 127 � � :V2K 1.2 127 lnk:PtchdTimpLnk

User 2 000 vln:16 Leg Str 000 vln:16 Leg Str 000 str:Second Mass
127 str:SlackLgStdSt 127 str:SlackLgStdSt 127 � � :V2K 1.2

User 3 000 wnd:All Winds 000 wnd:All Winds 000 wnd:All Winds
127 brs:Tuba p/mf/ff 127 brs:Tuba p/mf/ff 127 brs:Tuba p/mf/ff

Orch1-0 000 vln:16 Leg Str 000 vln:16 Leg Str 000 vln:16 Leg Str
127 str:SlackLgStdSt 127 str:SlackLgStdSt 127 str:SlackLgStdSt

Orch1-1 000�str:Virtuoso 000�str:Virtuoso 000 str:Virtuoso
127 lnk:PtchdTimpLnk 127 lnk:PtchdTimpLnk 127 lnk:PtchdTimpLnk

Orch1-2 000 str:Second Mass 000 str:Second Mass 000 str:Second Mass
127 � � :V2K 1.2 127 � � :V2K 1.2 127 � � :V2K 1.2

Orch2-0 000 wnd:All Winds 000 wnd:All Winds 000 wnd:All Winds
127 brs:Tuba p/mf/ff 127 brs:Tuba p/mf/ff 127 brs:Tuba p/mf/ff

Additional undocumented file:
Orch2-1 000 wnd: Woodwinds
127 V2KRom2 V1.0

Number of Instruments (= multisamples):
Orch1 81 81 81
Orch2 240 237 240

Number of Riffs: 186 186 186

So there are differences mainly in USER banks - different order of banks copied from ROM, and my module has that missing bank Orch2-1 loaded in the bank User 1.

Japanese manual for Orchestra module lists only 238 instruments for Orch2 card, but in fact there's 240 like written in English manual for Virtuoso.

Daniel Forro

V2K Presets [was about PE RAM/ROM issue]

2017-02-23 by smw-mail@...

Previously I wrote:

>> My User 3 is different. I bought mine second-hand (ebay)
>> and I am not sure if the original owner changed User 3 or it came like that.

>> For 000 I have wnd:Piccolo the last preset is 070 bas:CB Bllka Mt. 
>> From 71 to 127 it has :Blank Preset. When I am more awake, I will look to see if 000^3 to 070^3 are unique

I stand corrected: 022^3 to 063^3 also have :Blank Preset and it looks like 064^3 to 070^3 look like attempts to create linked presets.  Clearing out Bank 3 and using it as a testing area sounds like something I might have done; or maybe the previous owner did that.

In any case, it looks like I have some *.syx files from someone's V2K (with the A.O. ROM) dated 2009.  I used syxer.exe to dump the names of the V2K User Banks.  Since I have never used the attachment feature, I will attempt that now.  BTW, if you don't like the background color, you can use something like MS Paint to change it.

Steve