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Using CS as a sound module. What the best way to save patches with song.

Using CS as a sound module. What the best way to save patches with song.

2014-02-19 by <coolout1@...>

Carrying over from my other thread...I've been racking my brains over this one.

I have my Command Station midi'ed to my MPC2000xl,  both in and out. It's super flexible and I'm finally close to creating a good system for using the power of the CS and getting some real work done. I'm mostly sequencing with the MPC, using the CS as a sound module, but also I'm using CS pads for keyboard parts .

What would be the best way to save the CS preset assignments for each song? I want to be able to just turn both devices on, have the samples and sequences on the MPC autoload, and be able to instantly recall songs using elements of both.

I guess I could figure out how to put midi program changes into a MPC track, unmute to load the correct patches for that song, then mute,  but I also need to save specific changes made to the CS presets like quick edit settings, FX settings, etc for each song...basically take a snapshot. That makes me think the easiest way might be to store all those settings in a on-board pattern (on the CS) and then find a way to recall the pattern through midi on the MPC...though I'm not sure if that's even possible.

Any thoughts?   

Re: [xl7] Using CS as a sound module. What the best way to save patches with song.

2014-02-19 by Scott E. Whitehead

I think you're looking at saving a 'multisetup'; on the CS.  Basically, a multi is a song.  When you edit a patch, though, if it's shared among two multi's, you're editing it for both multis.  So it's probably best if you save the patches to a new location then save them into a multi.  Like save patches 0-9 for song/multi 1, 10-19 song/multi 2, etc.  There's a setting in the CS for how you can tell it to respond to MIDI messages for switching the multi but I don't know it.

You could skip the multi and use a track for effects, then you would go the other route (I think) and have the MPC send program change messages for each patch, if the MPC supports that.  My Octatrack does, and that's the route I chose.  When I load the track it sends the program change information and if I'm not mistaken, the initial value for any knobs I have enabled.  I think this is simpler because there's fewer pieces and the program change piece is more straight forward.  If you want more information about using a track for effects, search the archive for my name and and '16' for the most recent conversation.


On Tue, Feb 18, 2014 at 4:45 PM, <coolout1@...> wrote:
 

Carrying over from my other thread...I've been racking my brains over this one.

I have my Command Station midi'ed to my MPC2000xl,  both in and out. It's super flexible and I'm finally close to creating a good system for using the power of the CS and getting some real work done. I'm mostly sequencing with the MPC, using the CS as a sound module, but also I'm using CS pads for keyboard parts .

What would be the best way to save the CS preset assignments for each song? I want to be able to just turn both devices on, have the samples and sequences on the MPC autoload, and be able to instantly recall songs using elements of both.

I guess I could figure out how to put midi program changes into a MPC track, unmute to load the correct patches for that song, then mute,  but I also need to save specific changes made to the CS presets like quick edit settings, FX settings, etc for each song...basically take a snapshot. That makes me think the easiest way might be to store all those settings in a on-board pattern (on the CS) and then find a way to recall the pattern through midi on the MPC...though I'm not sure if that's even possible.

Any thoughts?   




--

Re: [xl7] Using CS as a sound module. What the best way to save patches with song.

2014-02-19 by Matt

Mults work cool or u could embed program changes or you could save program changes in the cs patterns. Mults are gonna change all ur globals. I use efx presets on ch 16. I can explain more later I'm on a 10 min break at work

On Feb 18, 2014 5:06 PM, "Scott E. Whitehead" <scottewhitehead@...> wrote:
 

I think you're looking at saving a 'multisetup' on the CS.  Basically, a multi is a song.  When you edit a patch, though, if it's shared among two multi's, you're editing it for both multis.  So it's probably best if you save the patches to a new location then save them into a multi.  Like save patches 0-9 for song/multi 1, 10-19 song/multi 2, etc.  There's a setting in the CS for how you can tell it to respond to MIDI messages for switching the multi but I don9;t know it.

You could skip the multi and use a track for effects, then you would go the other route (I think) and have the MPC send program change messages for each patch, if the MPC supports that.  My Octatrack does, and that's the route I chose.  When I load the track it sends the program change information and if I'm not mistaken, the initial value for any knobs I have enabled.  I think this is simpler because there's fewer pieces and the program change piece is more straight forward.  If you want more information about using a track for effects, search the archive for my name and and '16' for the most recent conversation.


On Tue, Feb 18, 2014 at 4:45 PM, <coolout1@...m> wrote:
 

Carrying over from my other thread...I've been racking my brains over this one.

I have my Command Station midi'ed to my MPC2000xl,  both in and out. It's super flexible and I'm finally close to creating a good system for using the power of the CS and getting some real work done. I'm mostly sequencing with the MPC, using the CS as a sound module, but also I'm using CS pads for keyboard parts .

What would be the best way to save the CS preset assignments for each song? I want to be able to just turn both devices on, have the samples and sequences on the MPC autoload, and be able to instantly recall songs using elements of both.

I guess I could figure out how to put midi program changes into a MPC track, unmute to load the correct patches for that song, then mute,  but I also need to save specific changes made to the CS presets like quick edit settings, FX settings, etc for each song...basically take a snapshot. That makes me think the easiest way might be to store all those settings in a on-board pattern (on the CS) and then find a way to recall the pattern through midi on the MPC...though I'm not sure if that's even possible.

Any thoughts?   




--

Re: [xl7] Using CS as a sound module. What the best way to save patches with song.

2014-02-19 by Matt

A mult is NOT a song

On Feb 18, 2014 7:42 PM, "Matt" <somatt@...> wrote:

Mults work cool or u could embed program changes or you could save program changes in the cs patterns. Mults are gonna change all ur globals. I use efx presets on ch 16. I can explain more later I'm on a 10 min break at work

On Feb 18, 2014 5:06 PM, "Scott E. Whitehead" <scottewhitehead@...> wrote:
 

I think you're looking at saving a 'multisetup' on the CS.  Basically, a multi is a song.  When you edit a patch, though, if it's shared among two multi's, you're editing it for both multis.  So it's probably best if you save the patches to a new location then save them into a multi.  Like save patches 0-9 for song/multi 1, 10-19 song/multi 2, etc.  There's a setting in the CS for how you can tell it to respond to MIDI messages for switching the multi but I don't know it.

You could skip the multi and use a track for effects, then you would go the other route (I think) and have the MPC send program change messages for each patch, if the MPC supports that.  My Octatrack does, and that's the route I chose.  When I load the track it sends the program change information and if I'm not mistaken, the initial value for any knobs I have enabled.  ;I think this is simpler because there's fewer pieces and the program change piece is more straight forward.  If you want more information about using a track for effects, search the archive for my name and and '16' for the most recent conversation.


On Tue, Feb 18, 2014 at 4:45 PM, <coolout1@...> wrote:
 

Carrying over from my other thread...I've been racking my brains over this one.

I have my Command Station midi'ed to my MPC2000xl,  both in and out. It's super flexible and I'm finally close to creating a good system for using the power of the CS and getting some real work done. I'm mostly sequencing with the MPC, using the CS as a sound module, but also I'm using CS pads for keyboard parts .

What would be the best way to save the CS preset assignments for each song? I want to be able to just turn both devices on, have the samples and sequences on the MPC autoload, and be able to instantly recall songs using elements of both.

I guess I could figure out how to put midi program changes into a MPC track, unmute to load the correct patches for that song, then mute,  but I also need to save specific changes made to the CS presets like quick edit settings, FX settings, etc for each song...basically take a snapshot. That makes me think the easiest way might be to store all those settings in a on-board pattern (on the CS) and then find a way to recall the pattern through midi on the MPC...though I'm not sure if that's even possible.

Any thoughts?   




--

Re: [xl7] Using CS as a sound module. What the best way to save patches with song.

2014-02-19 by SEAN SOUTHERLAND

There's too much banter on this user group

On Feb 18, 2014, at 10:43 PM, Matt <somatt@...> wrote:

�

A mult is NOT a song

On Feb 18, 2014 7:42 PM, "Matt" <somatt@...> wrote:

Mults work cool or u could embed program changes or you could save program changes in the cs patterns. Mults are gonna change all ur globals. I use efx presets on ch 16. I can explain more later I'm on a 10 min break at work

On Feb 18, 2014 5:06 PM, "Scott E. Whitehead" <scottewhitehead@...> wrote:
�

I think you're looking at saving a 'multisetup' on the CS. �Basically, a multi is a song. �When you edit a patch, though, if it's shared among two multi's, you're editing it for both multis. �So it's probably best if you save the patches to a new location then save them into a multi. �Like save patches 0-9 for song/multi 1, 10-19 song/multi 2, etc. �There's a setting in the CS for how you can tell it to respond to MIDI messages for switching the multi but I don't know it.

You could skip the multi and use a track for effects, then you would go the other route (I think) and have the MPC send program change messages for each patch, if the MPC supports that. �My Octatrack does, and that's the route I chose.  When I load the track it sends the program change information and if I'm not mistaken, the initial value for any knobs I have enabled. �I think this is simpler because there's fewer pieces and the program change piece is more straight forward. �If you want more information about using a track for effects, search the archive for my name and and '16' for the most recent conversation.


On Tue, Feb 18, 2014 at 4:45 PM, <coolout1@...> wrote:
 

Carrying over from my other thread...I've been racking my brains over this one.

I have my Command Station midi'ed to my MPC2000xl,� both in and out. It's super flexible and I'm finally close to creating a good system for using the power of the CS and getting some real work done. I'm mostly sequencing with the MPC, using the CS as a sound module, but also I'm using CS pads for keyboard parts .

What would be the best way to save the CS preset assignments for each song? I want to be able to just turn both devices on, have the samples and sequences on the MPC autoload, and be able to instantly recall songs using elements of both.

I guess I could figure out how to put midi program changes into a MPC track, unmute to load the correct patches for that song, then mute,� but I also need to save specific changes made to the CS presets like quick edit settings, FX settings, etc for each song...basically take a snapshot. That makes me think the easiest way might be to store all those settings in a on-board pattern (on the CS) and then find a way to recall the pattern through midi on the MPC...though I'm not sure if that's even possible.

Any thoughts?�  




--

Re: [xl7] Using CS as a sound module. What the best way to save patches with song.

2014-02-19 by Matt

Ok
Song
A chain of patterns which is connected in a row in song mode with an extra song track

pattern
16 tracks of sequencer data which is played in a repeating manner or can be used as part of a song, program changes can be embedded

Mult
A global snapshot of all settings on the cs - not a song or a pattern in fact it has no sequence data -

I am not trying to banter but calling a mult a song is confusing and misleading

On Feb 18, 2014 7:46 PM, "SEAN SOUTHERLAND" <membraneesoterica@...> wrote:
 

There's too much banter on this user group

On Feb 18, 2014, at 10:43 PM, Matt <somatt@...> wrote:

 

A mult is NOT a song

On Feb 18, 2014 7:42 PM, "Matt" <somatt@...> wrote:

Mults work cool or u could embed program changes or you could save program changes in the cs patterns. Mults are gonna change all ur globals. I use efx presets on ch 16. I can explain more later I'm on a 10 min break at work

On Feb 18, 2014 5:06 PM, "Scott E. Whitehead" <scottewhitehead@...> wrote:
 

I think you're looking at saving a 'multisetup' on the CS.  Basically, a multi is a song.  When you edit a patch, though, if it's shared among two multi's, you're editing it for both multis.  So it's probably best if you save the patches to a new location then save them into a multi.  Like save patches 0-9 for song/multi 1, 10-19 song/multi 2, etc.  There's a setting in the CS for how you can tell it to respond to MIDI messages for switching the multi but I don't know it.

You could skip the multi and use a track for effects, then you would go the other route (I think) and have the MPC send program change messages for each patch, if the MPC supports that.  My Octatrack does, and that's the route I chose.  When I load the track it sends the program change information and if I'm not mistaken, the initial value for any knobs I have enabled.  I think this is simpler because there's fewer pieces and the program change piece is more straight forward.  If you want more information about using a track for effects, search the archive for my name and and '16'; for the most recent conversation.


On Tue, Feb 18, 2014 at 4:45 PM, <coolout1@...> wrote:
 

Carrying over from my other thread...I've been racking my brains over this one.

I have my Command Station midi'ed to my MPC2000xl,  both in and out. It's super flexible and I'm finally close to creating a good system for using the power of the CS and getting some real work done. I'm mostly sequencing with the MPC, using the CS as a sound module, but also I'm using CS pads for keyboard parts .

What would be the best way to save the CS preset assignments for each song? I want to be able to just turn both devices on, have the samples and sequences on the MPC autoload, and be able to instantly recall songs using elements of both.

I guess I could figure out how to put midi program changes into a MPC track, unmute to load the correct patches for that song, then mute,  but I also need to save specific changes made to the CS presets like quick edit settings, FX settings, etc for each song...basically take a snapshot. That makes me think the easiest way might be to store all those settings in a on-board pattern (on the CS) and then find a way to recall the pattern through midi on the MPC...though I'm not sure if that's even possible.

Any thoughts?   




--

Re: [xl7] Using CS as a sound module. What the best way to save patches with song.

2014-02-19 by <smw-mail@...>

Too much banter in this user group?  Huh?
(1) According to the membership list, you seem to have joined the group less than six months ago--hardly enough time to criticize the group.
(2)  Having been here a while, I do believe that if you did a content analysis of all the posts, off-topic posts are a definite minority.
(3) If by banter you mean people chiming in contributing to a question or problem raise, I see nothing wrong with that. In fact, the archives are full of threads where people discuss various on topic subjects. Just my opinion, but I think that is a positive.
(4) Your comment about "too much banter" adds nothing to the conversation.
Steve

RE: Using CS as a sound module. What the best way to save patches with song.

2014-02-19 by <smw-mail@...>

Back to the original question.

I sort of understand some of what you are trying to do. It seems like you want the CS to be a slave to the MPC, but you want to save various CS parameters as well to play the pads on the CS and possibly other gear. Assuming your round-trip midi routing doesn't present any problems, it seems to me that you might want to have either a song or a chain of patterns track the MPC (if that is possible--I'm not sure at the moment).

Can you embed sysex commands in the MPC and send them to external gear? If so, you might be able to automatically call up specific patterns on the CS at specific moments with sysex commands. If this can be done, you should be able to record parameter changes right in the CS patterns themselves.

As for multis [multisetups] on the CS, those are not the same thing as songs, though it is frequently useful to have a multi associated with a song. They are a snapshot of quite a number of setting--including some system/midi settings.

With the CS, patterns can retain the presets assigned to channels. So if all you wanted to do was have a way to preserve the initial preset assignments for each channel in a song you could have otherwise empty patterns that simply have your preset assignments. THis might just be a starting point, since you want your setup to other things as well.

Of course, without knowing your midi wiring and your midi data configurations, it is really hard to tell what will work and what won't.

As for the the use of a dedicated CS track for !FX presets, I am guessing that should work if you call up presets from the MPC.  (I would post links to discussions of how to do the !FX control, but I still don't have a handle on the new Yahoo User Interface.)

Hope this helps.

Steve


 

 

Re: [xl7] RE: Using CS as a sound module. What the best way to save patches with song.

2014-02-19 by Bruno

Re: "multi" vs "song".

Obviously they are not the same, but in fact even E-mu uses a concept of "multi for a song" in the manual. The basic idea is:
 - multi (short for "multisetup") contains for all the patches per channel, FX settings, on/off status of channels and a bunch of other MIDI-related parameters (check the manual for details);
 - multis can be selected using certain Bank Select + Program Change combination.

I'm not sure how many multis can be stored in XL-7 - in P2K it used to be 128, but then it was limited to 64 with the 2.0 OS upgrade, because part of internal memory had to be used for something else, so my bet for XL-7 would be 128 or 64. This gives a space for 64 "song settings", and obviously you can dump them with SysEx and replace with others, so sky is the limit (or Flash wear, to be precise). Profit is clear: by selecting a patch (with bank) you get the whole setup, presto! Multis can be also easily dialed from the user panel.

I used to have a multi where RT controllers were mapped to XG specification (that's what happen when Yamaha CS1x is your masterkeyboard), or a multi which would basically turn off channels used by other sound modules.

HTH,

Bruno


2014-02-19 18:15 GMT+01:00 <smw-mail@...>:


Also: message 19977.


RE: Using CS as a sound module. What the best way to save patches with song.

2014-02-19 by <coolout1@...>

Multi seems it might be the way to go, but wouldn't I have to save any changed preset patches to new locations?  In other words does the multi only save specific global parameters or is it a true snapshot that saves all the settings (quick edits, FX assignment, routing) for all the preset patches on the device in one swoop, so I could have a "factory reset" multi, then song-specific multis with completely different parameters for each preset. 

Re: [xl7] RE: Using CS as a sound module. What the best way to save patches with song.

2014-02-20 by Matt

Multi saves what presets your on but you need to have presets for it to point to. Its not gonna give you more preset memory.

On Feb 19, 2014 2:19 PM, <coolout1@...> wrote:
 ;

Multi seems it might be the way to go, but wouldn't I have to save any changed preset patches to new locations?  In other words does the multi only save specific global parameters or is it a true snapshot that saves all the settings (quick edits, FX assignment, routing) for all the preset patches on the device in one swoop, so I could have a "factory reset" multi, then song-specific multis with completely different parameters for each preset. 

RE: Using CS as a sound module. What the best way to save patches with song.

2014-02-22 by <smw-mail@...>

Yes, if you tweaked any presets and you wanted to retain those changes in a preset, you would have to save the preset. You are correct that the multisetup (aka multi) only saves more global parameters, not the preset changes.

As I may have suggested, if your tweaks to presets are CCs, you could record those into a pattern and sync the playback of the pattern to the other sequencer.

I think I see one of the problems you are having--you really don't want to send midi data from the MPC to the CS, but you do want the easiest way to recall presets on the proper CS channels.  I am overtired, but I think the two easiest ways might be (1) using 1 multi per song and restoring the multi on the CS by hand or (2) creating "bare-bones" patterns* on the CS and then dialing those up. (*patterns with just preset/channel info. and some midi data to keep each channel from reverting to a default state--such as inserting volume data).

I think option (2) might have fewer steps at performance time, but more steps to set it up.  If you like option (2), I'd recommend making a template with data on each channel and storing it someplace (like pattern 000^0) so its ready for you when you create each bare-bones pattern.

Hope this helps.

Steve