Synth-DIY Yahoo! Groups Archives

Thread

Need some tips on patch cords.

2014-02-07 by <nerminh9@...>

I have the xl7 with xlead rom inside and the presets on that rom are not designed for xl7 knob matrix. Been trying to remap those knobs to resemble the ones on the xl but with very little luck. For example, midi E cord to volume envelope attack (+ or - 100 amount) and it just has no effect on the sound when that knob is turned. Is there another patch cord I have to set up for that to work? Been trying to find the map of xl7 initial preset here and I couldn't find it so I need some help. I believe if I could find a way to remap the volume envelope I could figure everything else out. Thanks

Re: Need some tips on patch cords.

2014-02-08 by steve_the_composer

Out of curiosity, why do you want to do that?  You probably could try to remap every patch cord in every XLEAD preset so that the presets make use of the 16 controllers the way the XL-7 does, but my guess is that it would take an awful lot of time when you could be doing other things.

Having said that, if you want to map all of the presets, I might be able to adapt my syxer program to convert 128 presets at a time. 

Also, what preset did you test? If it was a factory preset, I'd take a look at it. Off hand, I am wondering if MidiE is also mapped to something else, or if there is an indirect patch cord being used.

Steve 

--- In xl7@yahoogroups.com, <nerminh9@...> wrote:
>
> I have the xl7 with xlead rom inside and the presets on that rom are not designed for xl7 knob matrix. Been trying to remap those knobs to resemble the ones on the xl but with very little luck. For example, midi E cord to volume envelope attack (+ or - 100 amount) and it just has no effect on the sound when that knob is turned. Is there another patch cord I have to set up for that to work? Been trying to find the map of xl7 initial preset here and I couldn't find it so I need some help. I believe if I could find a way to remap the volume envelope I could figure everything else out. Thanks
>

Re: Need some tips on patch cords.

2014-02-08 by steve_the_composer

Ooops. Let me clarify: I have no interest in mining the presets to make a set of conversion decisions. However, if you want to do all that work, I could try to integrate the conversion decisions into my program.

Steve

--- In xl7@yahoogroups.com, "steve_the_composer" <smw-mail@...> wrote:

> Having said that, if you want to map all of the presets, I might be able to adapt my syxer program to convert 128 presets at a time.

Re: [xl7] Re: Need some tips on patch cords.

2014-02-08 by D F Tweedie

I think the archives contain copies of the Emulator2x and 3x software as well as a tutorial guide that includes using patch cords in the software. I think the principles are the same. Probably a very good source to learn about them and what you can do with them, as there are a lot of examples and useful illustrations.

DF

�

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From: steve_the_composer
To: xl7@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Friday, February 7, 2014 5:25 PM
Subject: [xl7] Re: Need some tips on patch cords.

�

Out of curiosity, why do you want to do that? You probably could try to remap every patch cord in every XLEAD preset so that the presets make use of the 16 controllers the way the XL-7 does, but my guess is that it would take an awful lot of time when you could be doing other things.

Having said that, if you want to map all of the presets, I might be able to adapt my syxer program to convert 128 presets at a time.

Also, what preset did you test? If it was a factory preset, I'd take a look at it. Off hand, I am wondering if MidiE is also mapped to something else, or if there is an indirect patch cord being used.

Steve

--- In xl7@yahoogroups.com, <nerminh9@...> wrote:
>
> I have the xl7 with xlead rom inside and the presets on that rom are not designed for xl7 knob matrix. Been trying to remap those knobs to resemble the ones on the xl but with very little luck. For example, midi E cord to volume envelope attack (+ or - 100 amount) and it just has no effect on the sound when that knob is turned. Is there another patch cord I have to set up for that to work? Been trying to find the map of xl7 initial preset here and I couldn't find it so I need some help. I believe if I could find a way to remap the volume envelope I could figure everything else out. Thanks
>

Re: Need some tips on patch cords.

2014-02-08 by <nerminh9@...>

Thanks for the reply, Steve. I basically wanna make a template preset from which I can start making sounds from scratch and I just wanna simply assign the attack or release to one of the real time knobs which I can't seem to be able to do for some reason and the manual isn't that helpful to me really.

Every preset, whether empty or the factory made, have their knobs assigned differently than what it says on the station and I would love to at least have the real time control over those basic synth parameters. I guess I'm not fully familiar with the way patch cords work in relation to volume envelope and real time knobs so I'm looking for maybe a few examples on how to patch envelopes so they respond to knobs.

Thank you

Re: [xl7] Re: Need some tips on patch cords.

2014-02-08 by <nerminh9@...>

Thank you DF. I'll definitely look into that and see if I can better familiarize myself better with how it works. I can patch a few things here and there, but I haven't been able to make the envelope work with knobs. I tried to google for something that would explain patch cords and haven't been able to find anything. I guess that the info can be found in the Emulator x manual? I may even look into ultra series sampler manuals because the synth engine is very similar that of the CS. I've been using my CS only to sequence external gear till I recently got the sound rom from ebay and I'm just trying to learn it. Thanks you

Re: [xl7] Re: Need some tips on patch cords.

2014-02-08 by Daniel H

it may just take some familiarizing to get your head around the sources and destinations of the cord menu.. for example if you wanted to set a volume envelope to control the volume of the sample you would set something like this

C01 = VolEnv< - AmpVol + 0% (for this example that this is in Cord #01). Here nothing is going to happen until you set the midi controller to adjust the cord amount. If you wanted to have this be modulated by a midi controller you would then have another cord that would be set to:

C02 = Midi A - C01 Amt + 100

Now when you move Midi A to it's maximum value the volume envelope will be acting on the volume at it's maximum amount.

If you wanted to adjust the attack/decay/sustain/release values it would be similar..

C01 = VolEnv< - AmpVol + 100% (x = whatever value you want here to indicate the degree of modulation)

C02 = Midi A - VenvAtk + X% (whatever value you wan to modulate the attack rate by)

Once you have "VolEnv< - AmpVol + 100%" set up you can assign whatever midi controller to VenvAtk, VenvDcy, VenvRls, etc.. to modulate these points on the envelope. the VenvRts destination modules the 'rate' of every point in the envelope.

Sometimes the polarity is a bit fiddly so if it doesnt work with +100% try -100%.. And it is always a good idea to just route the your envelope to Pitch so you can hear what the modulation is doing to make sure your settings are correct. The Proteus 2000 and Command Station manuals do an OK job of explaining some of this.. I would check them before going to the Emulator X manual. EOS manuals would be just as good as well.

I hope that helps a little bit

On Sat, Feb 8, 2014 at 1:26 AM, <nerminh9@...> wrote:

Thank you DF. I'll definitely look into that and see if I can better familiarize myself better with how it works. I can patch a few things here and there, but I haven't been able to make the envelope work with knobs. I tried to google for something that would explain patch cords and haven't been able to find anything. I guess that the info can be found in the Emulator x manual? I may even look into ultra series sampler manuals because the synth engine is very similar that of the CS. I've been using my CS only to sequence external gear till I recently got the sound rom from ebay and I'm just trying to learn it. Thanks you

RE: [xl7] Re: Need some tips on patch cords.

2014-02-08 by Scott E. Whitehead

Steve,

�

What is this Syxer program you speak of?� I see mention of it but not the program itself.� Just the other day I was trying to see if there was a way to bulk-copy frequently used cords to all of my patches, which I understand is not in there. �Whatsit do?� �

�

BTW, I too was struggling with reassigning the cords while not breaking what they\u2019re set up to do by default.� I think I learned that when you reassign the cord you have to move its initial value to the mod it was controlling or you end up with 0.

�

Thanks,

Scott

�

From: xl7@yahoogroups.com [mailto:xl7@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of steve_the_composer
Sent: Friday, February 07, 2014 5:40 PM
To: xl7@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [xl7] Re: Need some tips on patch cords.

�

Ooops. Let me clarify: I have no interest in mining the presets to make a set of conversion decisions. However, if you want to do all that work, I could try to integrate the conversion decisions into my program.

Steve

--- In xl7@yahoogroups.com, "steve_the_composer" <smw-mail@...> wrote:

> Having said that, if you want to map all of the presets, I might be able to adapt my syxer program to convert 128 presets at a time.

RE: [xl7] Re: Need some tips on patch cords.

2014-02-19 by <smw-mail@...>

It looks like I missed this and didn't reply before.

It looks like the most recent version is here:
http://www.e-univercity.com/SynthGearDocs/E-Mu/Programs/Syxer/

It is the start of a program I did in Pascal many years ago which I have occasionally updated. The original idea was for it to be a tool to analyze and manipulate sysex dumps. I started with E-Mu P2K based gear because that's the gear I was using at the time. At present, the functionality is very limited. It does a very simple file size check to determine which E-Mu presets a bank/file is for. It does a sysex block-by-block hex display of patches. It will display the names of presets in a bank. I have used it for identifying the ROMs the presets use. The most advanced preset manipulation function in there (in fact, its the only one I implemented so far) is the changing of the ROM ID in a bank of 128 presets. One extension of this would be a feature that could take presets designed for one ROM and switch the ROM Instruments based on a table so that new presets could be generated for a different ROM. (This is moving in the direction of what I have called the Parametizer.)

I have had many thoughts about adding features and ultimately building it into my Parametizer program. It is that program which I envisioned having routines to construct, revise, manipulate and generate sysex preset file banks. The idea was to have a user file of preferences that could be used to construct sets of presets. Patchcord preferences could be selected and applied to the generation of a bank of presets.

I thought I had a version of Syxer posted here, but I don't see it. Maybe its in the P2K Group. I know I used it a few years ago to switch ROM IDs on request.

Anyhow, I no longer have the time and energy to devote to the developing software, but I keep mentioning it in case people here wanted to help work on it. There is a lot of analysis and sorting that would have to be done before additional functionality could be added. Having mined the 16-controller and 12-controller bulk data dump formats (and the Audity format), I know it would take quite a bit of effort. (Nor do I have the time to learn Java or other languages that might take it beyond an MS-DOS program compiled to run in a Win32 window.)

Steve

RE: [xl7] Re: Need some tips on patch cords.

2014-02-19 by <smw-mail@...>

>> BTW, I too was struggling with reassigning the cords while not breaking what they’re set up to do by default. I think I learned that when you reassign the cord you have to move its initial value to the mod it was controlling or you end up with 0.

I:
I am wondering how to implement something to (1) preserve patchcords and (2) have the ability to tweak them. Hmmmm.

Step 1: Mine all the patchcords you have in all your roms and organize them based on functionality.
Step 2: Store them in such a way that they can be (a) reassigned, (b) modified, and (c) used as building blocks.
Step 3: Develop some mechanisms (algorithms/routines) for building/rebuilding patchcords--including error checking mechanisms.

II:
Are you talking about "simply" reassigning which knob (MidiA -> MidiP) does what? If so, you are right, the initial amount would also have to reassigned. I would think that should be relatively easy to do.

If the order of the patchcords would change, some analysis would have to be done so that indirect patchcord controls are also changed (e.g., MidiI --> C10Amt _080). If only the controller (Source) assignments change, but the order of the patchcords remains the same, I don't think this analysis would be needed.

Hmmmmm. You got me thinking--perhaps the first step if I were to try to adapt Syxer would be to display each patchcord in a preset and a source -> destination map. Egads!!!! Its starting to sound like a patch editor--not something I want to do!!!

Hmmmmm. Maybe just a map of the 12 or 16 controllers used by the patchcords in a single preset saved to a file that could be edited in notepad and then applied. That might be much more doable.

Hmmmmm. Any of this sound like what you want?

Steve