Emu XL-7 & MP-7 User's Group

maybe somebody tried to control the parameters of the arpeggiator via sysex?
I'm trying to do this with my novation remote sl controller, but so far without success.
need help.

Several years ago I looked at a novation remote manual and the software, but I think I deleted it a few months ago. I'd be happy to take another look. What parameters are you trying to control and do you have a link handy to the manual/software?
Steve

--- In xl7@yahoogroups.com, "nikitsanpsix" <nikitsan@...> wrote:
>
> maybe somebody tried to control the parameters of the arpeggiator via sysex?
> I'm trying to do this with my novation remote sl controller, but so far without success.
> need help.
>

Forget question 2. I found the link quite easily and downloaded the latest Template Editor. The question remains, though, which parameters do you want to control? You mentioned using sysex. Does this mean you are trying to create a template that will allow you to >>edit<< arp patterns on the fly or do something else?
Steve

--- In xl7@yahoogroups.com, "steve_the_composer" <smw-mail@...> wrote:
>
> Several years ago I looked at a novation remote manual and the software, but I think I deleted it a few months ago. I'd be happy to take another look. What parameters are you trying to control and do you have a link handy to the manual/software?
> Steve
> 
> --- In xl7@yahoogroups.com, "nikitsanpsix" <nikitsan@> wrote:
> >
> > maybe somebody tried to control the parameters of the arpeggiator via sysex?
> > I'm trying to do this with my novation remote sl controller, but so far without success.
> > need help.
> >
>

Im trying to control MASTER_ARP_NOTE or PRESET_ARP_NOTE now, but no luck.
link to user manual for my midi controller:
http://d19ulaff0trnck.cloudfront.net/sites/default/files/downloads/4168/english84.pdf

All about sysex I read in "Proteus Family Sysex" document from files section.

Finally I need to control the arpeggiator to create some kind of drum rolls and stutter effects for my production. Maybe there is a way to do this without sysex??? (they cant record in sequencer)

--- In xl7@yahoogroups.com, "steve_the_composer" <smw-mail@...> wrote:
>
> Several years ago I looked at a novation remote manual and the software, but I think I deleted it a few months ago. I'd be happy to take another look. What parameters are you trying to control and do you have a link handy to the manual/software?
> Steve
> 
> --- In xl7@yahoogroups.com, "nikitsanpsix" <nikitsan@> wrote:
> >
> > maybe somebody tried to control the parameters of the arpeggiator via sysex?
> > I'm trying to do this with my novation remote sl controller, but so far without success.
> > need help.
> >
>

I will take a look at those parameters and give some thought to drum rolls and stuttering later. (Maybe other have done that already.)

I am wondering if retriggering and/or lfos might be helpful. Later in the day I might be able to try those.  What ROM/Patches are you trying this with?

As for sysex, you can embed sysex in a pattern by editing it and uploading it, but that doesn't sound like it would be useful for you since you are looking for a realtime solution.

How do you envision the ARP_NOTE being used to create those effects? I assume they can be changed via sysex (parameter change) and from my brief look of the novation docs/template editor, you should be able to change parameters, but I'd have to look more closely.

Steve

--- In xl7@yahoogroups.com, "nikitsanpsix" <nikitsan@...> wrote:
>
> Im trying to control MASTER_ARP_NOTE or PRESET_ARP_NOTE now, but no luck.
> link to user manual for my midi controller:
> http://d19ulaff0trnck.cloudfront.net/sites/default/files/downloads/4168/english84.pdf
> 
> All about sysex I read in "Proteus Family Sysex" document from files section.
> 
> Finally I need to control the arpeggiator to create some kind of drum rolls and stutter effects for my production. Maybe there is a way to do this without sysex??? (they cant record in sequencer)
> 
> --- In xl7@yahoogroups.com, "steve_the_composer" <smw-mail@> wrote:
> >
> > Several years ago I looked at a novation remote manual and the software, but I think I deleted it a few months ago. I'd be happy to take another look. What parameters are you trying to control and do you have a link handy to the manual/software?
> > Steve
> > 
> > --- In xl7@yahoogroups.com, "nikitsanpsix" <nikitsan@> wrote:
> > >
> > > maybe somebody tried to control the parameters of the arpeggiator via sysex?
> > > I'm trying to do this with my novation remote sl controller, but so far without success.
> > > need help.
> > >
> >
>

OK--I see: ARP_NOTE is the note value, so I am guessing you want to use a knob or slider to sweet that from 1/32 note to let's say 1/4 note, as a sort of rhythmic accelerando, for example.

Interesting that there are 19 possible values available on the front panel, but the sysex manual reports 20 values (min = 0 to max = 19). Could be a typo; 0 could be off, or something smaller than 1/32; 19 could be something greater than 2/1.

Will explore more later. 

--- In xl7@yahoogroups.com, "steve_the_composer" <smw-mail@...> wrote:

> How do you envision the ARP_NOTE being used to create those effects?

Did a simple test with Midi-Ox to change MASTER_ARP_NOTE:

F0 18 0F 00 55 01 02 04 05 dv 00 F7 [hex values]

where dv = data value.

The range is really 1 to 19, but both 0 and 1 set the arp note value to to 1/32 and anything over 19 will also switch the value to 2/1.

I believe the novation template editor uses dv to stand for data value; double check that. 04 05 is the <xx, xx> for master_arp_note; 04 08 is for preset_arp_note.

IMPORTANT: You need to use PRESET_SELECT (id = 897 (01h, 07h) to tell your e-mu which preset you want the subsequent sysex data to affect. (Or LAYER_SELECT - id = 898 if changing later level parameters). If you are using the edit buffer, set the preset_select to -1 <7F 7F>.

Note: you can include multiple address value pairs <xx, xx, yy, yy> in a single sysex message.

Its been a while since I have done parameter manipulation via sysex (other than little tests like this), but I believe when you edit a preset other than in the edit buffer, you are editing it in memory.

If that's the case, I am not sure if changing the value while an arp is playing with change it on the fly.

So, I'd suggest setting up the knob/slide with the master_arp_note. Once that is working, try it with an arp in the edit buffer. 

Right now I don't have any hardware to simulate what you want to do (on-the-fly changes), so I willl probably just try it with a sequencer.

Hope this helps.

Steve




--- In xl7@yahoogroups.com, "steve_the_composer" <smw-mail@...> wrote:
>
> OK--I see: ARP_NOTE is the note value, so I am guessing you want to use a knob or slider to sweet that from 1/32 note to let's say 1/4 note, as a sort of rhythmic accelerando, for example.
> 
> Interesting that there are 19 possible values available on the front panel, but the sysex manual reports 20 values (min = 0 to max = 19). Could be a typo; 0 could be off, or something smaller than 1/32; 19 could be something greater than 2/1.
> 
> Will explore more later. 
> 
> --- In xl7@yahoogroups.com, "steve_the_composer" <smw-mail@> wrote:
> 
> > How do you envision the ARP_NOTE being used to create those effects?
>

Did a simple test with Midi-Ox to change MASTER_ARP_NOTE:

F0 18 0F 00 55 01 02 04 05 dv 00 F7 [hex values]

where dv = data value.

The range is really 1 to 19, but both 0 and 1 set the arp note value to to 1/32 and anything over 19 will also switch the value to 2/1.

I believe the novation template editor uses dv to stand for data value; double check that. 04 05 is the <xx, xx> for master_arp_note; 04 08 is for preset_arp_note.

IMPORTANT: You need to use PRESET_SELECT (id = 897 (01h, 07h) to tell your e-mu which preset you want the subsequent sysex data to affect. (Or LAYER_SELECT - id = 898 if changing later level parameters). If you are using the edit buffer, set the preset_select to -1 <7F 7F>.

Note: you can include multiple address value pairs <xx, xx, yy, yy> in a single sysex message.

Its been a while since I have done parameter manipulation via sysex (other than little tests like this), but I believe when you edit a preset other than in the edit buffer, you are editing it in memory.

If that's the case, I am not sure if changing the value while an arp is playing with change it on the fly.

So, I'd suggest setting up the knob/slide with the master_arp_note. Once that is working, try it with an arp in the edit buffer. 

Right now I don't have any hardware to simulate what you want to do (on-the-fly changes), so I will probably just try it with a sequencer.

Hope this helps.

Steve

PS: I gave it a try using MIDI-OX to send changes while an arp is playing and it doesn't do what I assumed you were trying to do. 

Ahhhhh. I see. I was testing in audition mode with patterns, but note_value is for non-pattern modes!!! Guess I will have to hook up a keyboard.


--- In xl7@...m, "steve_the_composer" <smw-mail@...> wrote:
>
> OK--I see: ARP_NOTE is the note value, so I am guessing you want to use a knob or slider to sweet that from 1/32 note to let's say 1/4 note, as a sort of rhythmic accelerando, for example.
> 
> Interesting that there are 19 possible values available on the front panel, but the sysex manual reports 20 values (min = 0 to max = 19). Could be a typo; 0 could be off, or something smaller than 1/32; 19 could be something greater than 2/1.
> 
> Will explore more later. 
> 
> --- In xl7@yahoogroups.com, "steve_the_composer" <smw-mail@> wrote:
> 
> > How do you envision the ARP_NOTE being used to create those effects?
>

OK, it seems it will work on-the-fly. Here's what I did:

With C01A as my basic channel, I held down a single note works with multiple notes, too). I used a kit with the preset arp on. (Works with non-pattern arps.) 

With the arp playing at the tempo defined by the BPM Clock and the note value (I had it at 1/4), I sent a sysex command to change it to 1/32. (Then tested it with other note values.)

Here's the sysex:

F0 18 0F 00 55 01 02 01 07 7f 7f 04 08 01 00 F7

F0 18 0F id 55 01 02 = parameter edit (id = sysex ID)
01 07 = preset_select
7f 7f = -1 [Edit Buffer]
04 08 = preset_arp_note
01 00 = 1/32
F7 = end of sysex command

At least that's the E-MU end of it.  I just tried it in the Novation Template Editor (1.3) and the Set button never became active. AHA!!!!

(1) Do not use F0 and F7.
(2) Message was too long.

So, (in theory, since I don't have a novation controller):

18 0F 00 55 01 02 01 07 7f 7f should set the parameter editing to the edit buffer, and

18 0F 00 55 01 02 04 08 DV 00 should set a knob or slider to control the preset_arp_value

For starters you might want the full 1 to 19 range, although I suspect you will probably want a much smaller range.

Hope that gets you started on the right track.

Steve

PS: Thanks for the puzzle of the day!!!




--- In xl7@yahoogroups.com, "steve_the_composer" <smw-mail@...> wrote:
>
> Did a simple test with Midi-Ox to change MASTER_ARP_NOTE:
> 
> F0 18 0F 00 55 01 02 04 05 dv 00 F7 [hex values]
> 
> where dv = data value.
> 
> The range is really 1 to 19, but both 0 and 1 set the arp note value to to 1/32 and anything over 19 will also switch the value to 2/1.
> 
> I believe the novation template editor uses dv to stand for data value; double check that. 04 05 is the <xx, xx> for master_arp_note; 04 08 is for preset_arp_note.
> 
> IMPORTANT: You need to use PRESET_SELECT (id = 897 (01h, 07h) to tell your e-mu which preset you want the subsequent sysex data to affect. (Or LAYER_SELECT - id = 898 if changing later level parameters). If you are using the edit buffer, set the preset_select to -1 <7F 7F>.
> 
> Note: you can include multiple address value pairs <xx, xx, yy, yy> in a single sysex message.
> 
> Its been a while since I have done parameter manipulation via sysex (other than little tests like this), but I believe when you edit a preset other than in the edit buffer, you are editing it in memory.
> 
> If that's the case, I am not sure if changing the value while an arp is playing with change it on the fly.
> 
> So, I'd suggest setting up the knob/slide with the master_arp_note. Once that is working, try it with an arp in the edit buffer. 
> 
> Right now I don't have any hardware to simulate what you want to do (on-the-fly changes), so I will probably just try it with a sequencer.
> 
> Hope this helps.
> 
> Steve
> 
> PS: I gave it a try using MIDI-OX to send changes while an arp is playing and it doesn't do what I assumed you were trying to do. 
> 
> Ahhhhh. I see. I was testing in audition mode with patterns, but note_value is for non-pattern modes!!! Guess I will have to hook up a keyboard.
> 
> 
> --- In xl7@yahoogroups.com, "steve_the_composer" <smw-mail@> wrote:
> >
> > OK--I see: ARP_NOTE is the note value, so I am guessing you want to use a knob or slider to sweet that from 1/32 note to let's say 1/4 note, as a sort of rhythmic accelerando, for example.
> > 
> > Interesting that there are 19 possible values available on the front panel, but the sysex manual reports 20 values (min = 0 to max = 19). Could be a typo; 0 could be off, or something smaller than 1/32; 19 could be something greater than 2/1.
> > 
> > Will explore more later. 
> > 
> > --- In xl7@yahoogroups.com, "steve_the_composer" <smw-mail@> wrote:
> > 
> > > How do you envision the ARP_NOTE being used to create those effects?
> >
>

MANY MANY THANKS!!! Fof your replies. they realy very helpful.
Now I see where was my mistake. 

I tried to do the settings directly in the controller itself, without
template editor, and I have not used bytes value (DV). 
Now it changes on the fly, but still cant be recorded.


--- In xl7@yahoogroups.com, "steve_the_composer" <smw-mail@...> wrote:
>
> Did a simple test with Midi-Ox to change MASTER_ARP_NOTE:
> 
> F0 18 0F 00 55 01 02 04 05 dv 00 F7 [hex values]
> 
> where dv = data value.
> 
> The range is really 1 to 19, but both 0 and 1 set the arp note value to to 1/32 and anything over 19 will also switch the value to 2/1.
> 
> I believe the novation template editor uses dv to stand for data value; double check that. 04 05 is the <xx, xx> for master_arp_note; 04 08 is for preset_arp_note.
> 
> IMPORTANT: You need to use PRESET_SELECT (id = 897 (01h, 07h) to tell your e-mu which preset you want the subsequent sysex data to affect. (Or LAYER_SELECT - id = 898 if changing later level parameters). If you are using the edit buffer, set the preset_select to -1 <7F 7F>.
> 
> Note: you can include multiple address value pairs <xx, xx, yy, yy> in a single sysex message.
> 
> Its been a while since I have done parameter manipulation via sysex (other than little tests like this), but I believe when you edit a preset other than in the edit buffer, you are editing it in memory.
> 
> If that's the case, I am not sure if changing the value while an arp is playing with change it on the fly.
> 
> So, I'd suggest setting up the knob/slide with the master_arp_note. Once that is working, try it with an arp in the edit buffer. 
> 
> Right now I don't have any hardware to simulate what you want to do (on-the-fly changes), so I willl probably just try it with a sequencer.
> 
> Hope this helps.
> 
> Steve
> 
> 
> 
> 
> --- In xl7@yahoogroups.com, "steve_the_composer" <smw-mail@> wrote:
> >
> > OK--I see: ARP_NOTE is the note value, so I am guessing you want to use a knob or slider to sweet that from 1/32 note to let's say 1/4 note, as a sort of rhythmic accelerando, for example.
> > 
> > Interesting that there are 19 possible values available on the front panel, but the sysex manual reports 20 values (min = 0 to max = 19). Could be a typo; 0 could be off, or something smaller than 1/32; 19 could be something greater than 2/1.
> > 
> > Will explore more later. 
> > 
> > --- In xl7@yahoogroups.com, "steve_the_composer" <smw-mail@> wrote:
> > 
> > > How do you envision the ARP_NOTE being used to create those effects?
> >
>

excellent! you're a beast!

I also tryied to use LFO+SRetrig to create rolls and stuttering, as you routed me, and its working too! very well that I can now record my rools in sequencer.



--- In xl7@yahoogroups.com, "steve_the_composer" <smw-mail@...> wrote:
>
> OK, it seems it will work on-the-fly. Here's what I did:
> 
> With C01A as my basic channel, I held down a single note works with multiple notes, too). I used a kit with the preset arp on. (Works with non-pattern arps.) 
> 
> With the arp playing at the tempo defined by the BPM Clock and the note value (I had it at 1/4), I sent a sysex command to change it to 1/32. (Then tested it with other note values.)
> 
> Here's the sysex:
> 
> F0 18 0F 00 55 01 02 01 07 7f 7f 04 08 01 00 F7
> 
> F0 18 0F id 55 01 02 = parameter edit (id = sysex ID)
> 01 07 = preset_select
> 7f 7f = -1 [Edit Buffer]
> 04 08 = preset_arp_note
> 01 00 = 1/32
> F7 = end of sysex command
> 
> At least that's the E-MU end of it.  I just tried it in the Novation Template Editor (1.3) and the Set button never became active. AHA!!!!
> 
> (1) Do not use F0 and F7.
> (2) Message was too long.
> 
> So, (in theory, since I don't have a novation controller):
> 
> 18 0F 00 55 01 02 01 07 7f 7f should set the parameter editing to the edit buffer, and
> 
> 18 0F 00 55 01 02 04 08 DV 00 should set a knob or slider to control the preset_arp_value
> 
> For starters you might want the full 1 to 19 range, although I suspect you will probably want a much smaller range.
> 
> Hope that gets you started on the right track.
> 
> Steve
> 
> PS: Thanks for the puzzle of the day!!!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> --- In xl7@yahoogroups.com, "steve_the_composer" <smw-mail@> wrote:
> >
> > Did a simple test with Midi-Ox to change MASTER_ARP_NOTE:
> > 
> > F0 18 0F 00 55 01 02 04 05 dv 00 F7 [hex values]
> > 
> > where dv = data value.
> > 
> > The range is really 1 to 19, but both 0 and 1 set the arp note value to to 1/32 and anything over 19 will also switch the value to 2/1.
> > 
> > I believe the novation template editor uses dv to stand for data value; double check that. 04 05 is the <xx, xx> for master_arp_note; 04 08 is for preset_arp_note.
> > 
> > IMPORTANT: You need to use PRESET_SELECT (id = 897 (01h, 07h) to tell your e-mu which preset you want the subsequent sysex data to affect. (Or LAYER_SELECT - id = 898 if changing later level parameters). If you are using the edit buffer, set the preset_select to -1 <7F 7F>.
> > 
> > Note: you can include multiple address value pairs <xx, xx, yy, yy> in a single sysex message.
> > 
> > Its been a while since I have done parameter manipulation via sysex (other than little tests like this), but I believe when you edit a preset other than in the edit buffer, you are editing it in memory.
> > 
> > If that's the case, I am not sure if changing the value while an arp is playing with change it on the fly.
> > 
> > So, I'd suggest setting up the knob/slide with the master_arp_note. Once that is working, try it with an arp in the edit buffer. 
> > 
> > Right now I don't have any hardware to simulate what you want to do (on-the-fly changes), so I will probably just try it with a sequencer.
> > 
> > Hope this helps.
> > 
> > Steve
> > 
> > PS: I gave it a try using MIDI-OX to send changes while an arp is playing and it doesn't do what I assumed you were trying to do. 
> > 
> > Ahhhhh. I see. I was testing in audition mode with patterns, but note_value is for non-pattern modes!!! Guess I will have to hook up a keyboard.
> > 
> > 
> > --- In xl7@yahoogroups.com, "steve_the_composer" <smw-mail@> wrote:
> > >
> > > OK--I see: ARP_NOTE is the note value, so I am guessing you want to use a knob or slider to sweet that from 1/32 note to let's say 1/4 note, as a sort of rhythmic accelerando, for example.
> > > 
> > > Interesting that there are 19 possible values available on the front panel, but the sysex manual reports 20 values (min = 0 to max = 19). Could be a typo; 0 could be off, or something smaller than 1/32; 19 could be something greater than 2/1.
> > > 
> > > Will explore more later. 
> > > 
> > > --- In xl7@yahoogroups.com, "steve_the_composer" <smw-mail@> wrote:
> > > 
> > > > How do you envision the ARP_NOTE being used to create those effects?
> > >
> >
>

Glad to hear that the info was helpful and that you were able to create some presets that do what you want.

Steve

--- In xl7@yahoogroups.com, "nikitsanpsix" <nikitsan@...> wrote:
>
> MANY MANY THANKS!!! For your replies. they really very helpful.
> Now I see where was my mistake. 
> 
> I tried to do the settings directly in the controller itself, without
> template editor, and I have not used bytes value (DV). 
> Now it changes on the fly, but still cant be recorded.
> 
> 

--- In xl7@yahoogroups.com, "nikitsanpsix" <nikitsan@...> wrote:
>
> excellent! you're a beast!
> 
> I also tried to use LFO+SRetrig to create rolls and stuttering, as you routed me, and its working too! very well that I can now record my rolls in sequencer.
> 
>

Excellent this will be very helpful