Emu XL-7 & MP-7 User's Group

Hello All,

Following-on from the discussion about Kick drums (Yahoo XL-7 group), I revisited my template patch, made some changes, and uploaded the result in the files section in case anyone is interested (Filename: JH_Sine_Kick_empty.zip).

The patch is in proteum xml format so you will need to fire-up this editor to load it. http://www.emigr8.me.uk/music/tools/proteum.htm

I have left the instrument layers blank so that it <should> work for you. For a start, just put a sine wave on layer 1 and your favourite kickmap on layer 2. Of course you can use the transpose function on layer 2 to change samples.

The patch works on 2 levels:
1. A sinewave linked to pitch envelope - 12 of the front knobs are dedicated to controlling this Sine so that you can easily produce 808ish kick drums with a solid fundamental, tuned to your needs.

2. A Kick map layered below, crossfadable with HPF and pitch-controllable. This opens-up enormous possibilities for designing your own unique kicks.

The two layers can be blended using just the front panel knobs, and are tuneable together and in the contect of you kit/pattern/song. In this scenario, the Kickmap provides the attack, and the sine adds a good satisfying thud and/or residual sub-bass trail. I have gotten very good results using this patch - and not just for kicks. 

Here's what the knobs do. 

Knobs A-L control the Sine:

A = LP filter cutoff 
B = Pitch envelope amount
C = Pitch envelope speed
D = Release time (Pitch and Amp envelopes) 

E = Attack time of the sine (important for layering)
F = Sample start / phase (for phase matching and 808-ish clicky attacks)
G = Sine pitch up
H = Sine Pitch down

I = Velocity response of amp/filter/fine pitch (if sequenced well and automated, perfect for ghost notes)
J = Humanisation / Randomisation amount (mapped to fine pitch, sample start)
K = LFO amount - creates a subtle pitch wobble in the sine tail. LFO (synced, with variation) rate follows the Amp envelope.
L = Crossfade between layer 1 and layer 2.

Knobs M-P control layer 2:

M = Sample start/Phase
N = HP filter
O = Pitch up
P = Pitch down

Getting Started:

Put a sine on layer 1 and a Kickmap on layer 2. Ensure the filter (A) is open and the crossfade (L) is all the way to the left so we are hearing only the sine. Set the the Pitch env amount (B) to 12 o clock and slowly bring-up the envelope speed knob (C) to about 3 o clock . Adjust the decay (D) - but don't over do it!

Using just these three knobs you can get a decent selection of sine kicks, however we are limited here by the envelopes (see note below), not only because they are linear/slow, but you may be able to discern a slight pop on the attack. You can attentuate this by carefully adjusting the pitch envelope parameters and filtering the result. Alternatively you can accentuate this artefact by changing the sample start time/phase (F) which introduces a clicky attack to the sine. Tune the sine using knobs G and H.

Now crossfade (L) to 12 o clock so that the Kicklayer is audible. In most cases, layering will cause fequency and phase clashes, which can undermine the fundamental and thus the solidity of the whole Kick. To get a nice clear sound, use the filters (A and N) for frequency seperation and carefully adjust layer 2 sample start point (M). You might want to introduce a small amount of attack on the sine (E) and adjust the pitch of layer 2 (O and P) to make everthing fit. With a little work you can get anything from soft to pumping bass drums - and you can control the Attack and Thump amounts realtime using the crossfade knob (L).  

Knobs I-J introduce Velocity sensitivity, Humanisation and an LFO wobble on the sine tail. Used sparingly they can give pleasing micro-variations to your patterns. 


Note about envelopes: The proteus module envelopes are linear (aren't they?) and so not really suited to creating those convinvcing super-punchy sine pitch drops. You can come close (e.g. gain4x-envelope) but this only accentuates the attack 'pop' of the sine pitch envelope. This nearly drove me crazy - at some envelope settings the pop is noticeable enough to cause an undesireable doubling effect on the attack. To remedy this, play a little with the pitch envelope settings, and if necessary, use the filter to remove any residuals. When layering, adjust the attack and sample start times so that the samples are more phase-aligned. For layer 2 I left the factory envelopes on, so there are no such artifacts, and so layer 2 is more suited to provide the punchy attack (plus, the stock kick samples usually sound good anyway, but many can do with the extra balls provide by the sine :). The stock drum samples respond quite well to extreme pitch changes. Even a tiny amount of sine can make a huge difference to the feel of a kick ion a pattern (check the relative contributions by crossfading between the two layers (Knob L).

 
Taking it further: 

- It's a good tip design your drums, not in isolation, but in the context of the kit and pattern in use. It's best to run a test pattern while tweaking. I use C1 for Kicks - keyboard transpose is off for the sine layer - you can of course transpose this up or down to fit your needs.

-Once you are comfortable with the sine, try a square wave instead for crunchy 8-bit-ish kicks. When you start trying other samples you enter interesting territory.

-Play with the envelopes - especially pitch (Aux) envelope shape to creates different sweeps and whoops.

-On the sine layer, turn on keyboard transpose and put a tom map on layer 2 = Tunable toms!

-Replace the Sine with a noise or cymbal sample with a long tail, and put a snare map on layer 2. Change filter on layer one to bandpass and you have a nice snare template. Same for hihats, or indeed almost any perscussion type. Adding a filter envelope with a little resonance can give good results too.

- think of a drum, any drum.


The advantages of doing it this way:
- immediate hands-on control over key drum parameters means you can fit the kick nicely to a running kit/pattern.
- You can use the same presets for different songs and you can record knobs-tweaks on the fly to make you kits come alive. Combine this with automation tracks and X-mix and you have entire kits that can change just by activating your automation track (see tip C at http://launch.groups.yahoo.com/group/xl7/message/19791). I haven't tried this yet, but I will next. 

etc. etc.

Of course you are free to adapat and improve this patch - if you come-up with something interesting, or if you do it another way, please share it!

Cheers,
J
19/1/2011

Thank you, that is very useful information! I'm still finding
controlling everything from cs quite challenging. I'll try it as soon
as I lay my hands on my cs.

On 19/01/2011, stimresp <stimresp@...> wrote:
> Hello All,
>
> Following-on from the discussion about Kick drums (Yahoo XL-7 group), I
> revisited my template patch, made some changes, and uploaded the result in
> the files section in case anyone is interested (Filename:
> JH_Sine_Kick_empty.zip).
>
> The patch is in proteum xml format so you will need to fire-up this editor
> to load it. http://www.emigr8.me.uk/music/tools/proteum.htm
>
> I have left the instrument layers blank so that it <should> work for you.
> For a start, just put a sine wave on layer 1 and your favourite kickmap on
> layer 2. Of course you can use the transpose function on layer 2 to change
> samples.
>
> The patch works on 2 levels:
> 1. A sinewave linked to pitch envelope - 12 of the front knobs are dedicated
> to controlling this Sine so that you can easily produce 808ish kick drums
> with a solid fundamental, tuned to your needs.
>
> 2. A Kick map layered below, crossfadable with HPF and pitch-controllable.
> This opens-up enormous possibilities for designing your own unique kicks.
>
> The two layers can be blended using just the front panel knobs, and are
> tuneable together and in the contect of you kit/pattern/song. In this
> scenario, the Kickmap provides the attack, and the sine adds a good
> satisfying thud and/or residual sub-bass trail. I have gotten very good
> results using this patch - and not just for kicks.
>
> Here's what the knobs do.
>
> Knobs A-L control the Sine:
>
> A = LP filter cutoff
> B = Pitch envelope amount
> C = Pitch envelope speed
> D = Release time (Pitch and Amp envelopes)
>
> E = Attack time of the sine (important for layering)
> F = Sample start / phase (for phase matching and 808-ish clicky attacks)
> G = Sine pitch up
> H = Sine Pitch down
>
> I = Velocity response of amp/filter/fine pitch (if sequenced well and
> automated, perfect for ghost notes)
> J = Humanisation / Randomisation amount (mapped to fine pitch, sample start)
> K = LFO amount - creates a subtle pitch wobble in the sine tail. LFO
> (synced, with variation) rate follows the Amp envelope.
> L = Crossfade between layer 1 and layer 2.
>
> Knobs M-P control layer 2:
>
> M = Sample start/Phase
> N = HP filter
> O = Pitch up
> P = Pitch down
>
> Getting Started:
>
> Put a sine on layer 1 and a Kickmap on layer 2. Ensure the filter (A) is
> open and the crossfade (L) is all the way to the left so we are hearing only
> the sine. Set the the Pitch env amount (B) to 12 o clock and slowly bring-up
> the envelope speed knob (C) to about 3 o clock . Adjust the decay (D) - but
> don't over do it!
>
> Using just these three knobs you can get a decent selection of sine kicks,
> however we are limited here by the envelopes (see note below), not only
> because they are linear/slow, but you may be able to discern a slight pop on
> the attack. You can attentuate this by carefully adjusting the pitch
> envelope parameters and filtering the result. Alternatively you can
> accentuate this artefact by changing the sample start time/phase (F) which
> introduces a clicky attack to the sine. Tune the sine using knobs G and H.
>
> Now crossfade (L) to 12 o clock so that the Kicklayer is audible. In most
> cases, layering will cause fequency and phase clashes, which can undermine
> the fundamental and thus the solidity of the whole Kick. To get a nice clear
> sound, use the filters (A and N) for frequency seperation and carefully
> adjust layer 2 sample start point (M). You might want to introduce a small
> amount of attack on the sine (E) and adjust the pitch of layer 2 (O and P)
> to make everthing fit. With a little work you can get anything from soft to
> pumping bass drums - and you can control the Attack and Thump amounts
> realtime using the crossfade knob (L).
>
> Knobs I-J introduce Velocity sensitivity, Humanisation and an LFO wobble on
> the sine tail. Used sparingly they can give pleasing micro-variations to
> your patterns.
>
>
> Note about envelopes: The proteus module envelopes are linear (aren't they?)
> and so not really suited to creating those convinvcing super-punchy sine
> pitch drops. You can come close (e.g. gain4x-envelope) but this only
> accentuates the attack 'pop' of the sine pitch envelope. This nearly drove
> me crazy - at some envelope settings the pop is noticeable enough to cause
> an undesireable doubling effect on the attack. To remedy this, play a little
> with the pitch envelope settings, and if necessary, use the filter to remove
> any residuals. When layering, adjust the attack and sample start times so
> that the samples are more phase-aligned. For layer 2 I left the factory
> envelopes on, so there are no such artifacts, and so layer 2 is more suited
> to provide the punchy attack (plus, the stock kick samples usually sound
> good anyway, but many can do with the extra balls provide by the sine :).
> The stock drum samples respond quite well to extreme pitch changes. Even a
> tiny amount of sine can make a huge difference to the feel of a kick ion a
> pattern (check the relative contributions by crossfading between the two
> layers (Knob L).
>
>
> Taking it further:
>
> - It's a good tip design your drums, not in isolation, but in the context of
> the kit and pattern in use. It's best to run a test pattern while tweaking.
> I use C1 for Kicks - keyboard transpose is off for the sine layer - you can
> of course transpose this up or down to fit your needs.
>
> -Once you are comfortable with the sine, try a square wave instead for
> crunchy 8-bit-ish kicks. When you start trying other samples you enter
> interesting territory.
>
> -Play with the envelopes - especially pitch (Aux) envelope shape to creates
> different sweeps and whoops.
>
> -On the sine layer, turn on keyboard transpose and put a tom map on layer 2
> = Tunable toms!
>
> -Replace the Sine with a noise or cymbal sample with a long tail, and put a
> snare map on layer 2. Change filter on layer one to bandpass and you have a
> nice snare template. Same for hihats, or indeed almost any perscussion type.
> Adding a filter envelope with a little resonance can give good results too.
>
> - think of a drum, any drum.
>
>
> The advantages of doing it this way:
> - immediate hands-on control over key drum parameters means you can fit the
> kick nicely to a running kit/pattern.
> - You can use the same presets for different songs and you can record
> knobs-tweaks on the fly to make you kits come alive. Combine this with
> automation tracks and X-mix and you have entire kits that can change just by
> activating your automation track (see tip C at
> http://launch.groups.yahoo.com/group/xl7/message/19791). I haven't tried
> this yet, but I will next.
>
> etc. etc.
>
> Of course you are free to adapat and improve this patch - if you come-up
> with something interesting, or if you do it another way, please share it!
>
> Cheers,
> J
> 19/1/2011
>
>

no sound in this patch...


--- In xl7@yahoogroups.com, "stimresp" <stimresp@...> wrote:
>
> Hello All,
> 
> Following-on from the discussion about Kick drums (Yahoo XL-7 group), I revisited my template patch, made some changes, and uploaded the result in the files section in case anyone is interested (Filename: JH_Sine_Kick_empty.zip).
> 
> The patch is in proteum xml format so you will need to fire-up this editor to load it. http://www.emigr8.me.uk/music/tools/proteum.htm
> 
> I have left the instrument layers blank so that it <should> work for you. For a start, just put a sine wave on layer 1 and your favourite kickmap on layer 2. Of course you can use the transpose function on layer 2 to change samples.
> 
> The patch works on 2 levels:
> 1. A sinewave linked to pitch envelope - 12 of the front knobs are dedicated to controlling this Sine so that you can easily produce 808ish kick drums with a solid fundamental, tuned to your needs.
> 
> 2. A Kick map layered below, crossfadable with HPF and pitch-controllable. This opens-up enormous possibilities for designing your own unique kicks.
> 
> The two layers can be blended using just the front panel knobs, and are tuneable together and in the contect of you kit/pattern/song. In this scenario, the Kickmap provides the attack, and the sine adds a good satisfying thud and/or residual sub-bass trail. I have gotten very good results using this patch - and not just for kicks. 
> 
> Here's what the knobs do. 
> 
> Knobs A-L control the Sine:
> 
> A = LP filter cutoff 
> B = Pitch envelope amount
> C = Pitch envelope speed
> D = Release time (Pitch and Amp envelopes) 
> 
> E = Attack time of the sine (important for layering)
> F = Sample start / phase (for phase matching and 808-ish clicky attacks)
> G = Sine pitch up
> H = Sine Pitch down
> 
> I = Velocity response of amp/filter/fine pitch (if sequenced well and automated, perfect for ghost notes)
> J = Humanisation / Randomisation amount (mapped to fine pitch, sample start)
> K = LFO amount - creates a subtle pitch wobble in the sine tail. LFO (synced, with variation) rate follows the Amp envelope.
> L = Crossfade between layer 1 and layer 2.
> 
> Knobs M-P control layer 2:
> 
> M = Sample start/Phase
> N = HP filter
> O = Pitch up
> P = Pitch down
> 
> Getting Started:
> 
> Put a sine on layer 1 and a Kickmap on layer 2. Ensure the filter (A) is open and the crossfade (L) is all the way to the left so we are hearing only the sine. Set the the Pitch env amount (B) to 12 o clock and slowly bring-up the envelope speed knob (C) to about 3 o clock . Adjust the decay (D) - but don't over do it!
> 
> Using just these three knobs you can get a decent selection of sine kicks, however we are limited here by the envelopes (see note below), not only because they are linear/slow, but you may be able to discern a slight pop on the attack. You can attentuate this by carefully adjusting the pitch envelope parameters and filtering the result. Alternatively you can accentuate this artefact by changing the sample start time/phase (F) which introduces a clicky attack to the sine. Tune the sine using knobs G and H.
> 
> Now crossfade (L) to 12 o clock so that the Kicklayer is audible. In most cases, layering will cause fequency and phase clashes, which can undermine the fundamental and thus the solidity of the whole Kick. To get a nice clear sound, use the filters (A and N) for frequency seperation and carefully adjust layer 2 sample start point (M). You might want to introduce a small amount of attack on the sine (E) and adjust the pitch of layer 2 (O and P) to make everthing fit. With a little work you can get anything from soft to pumping bass drums - and you can control the Attack and Thump amounts realtime using the crossfade knob (L).  
> 
> Knobs I-J introduce Velocity sensitivity, Humanisation and an LFO wobble on the sine tail. Used sparingly they can give pleasing micro-variations to your patterns. 
> 
> 
> Note about envelopes: The proteus module envelopes are linear (aren't they?) and so not really suited to creating those convinvcing super-punchy sine pitch drops. You can come close (e.g. gain4x-envelope) but this only accentuates the attack 'pop' of the sine pitch envelope. This nearly drove me crazy - at some envelope settings the pop is noticeable enough to cause an undesireable doubling effect on the attack. To remedy this, play a little with the pitch envelope settings, and if necessary, use the filter to remove any residuals. When layering, adjust the attack and sample start times so that the samples are more phase-aligned. For layer 2 I left the factory envelopes on, so there are no such artifacts, and so layer 2 is more suited to provide the punchy attack (plus, the stock kick samples usually sound good anyway, but many can do with the extra balls provide by the sine :). The stock drum samples respond quite well to extreme pitch changes. Even a tiny amount of sine can make a huge difference to the feel of a kick ion a pattern (check the relative contributions by crossfading between the two layers (Knob L).
> 
>  
> Taking it further: 
> 
> - It's a good tip design your drums, not in isolation, but in the context of the kit and pattern in use. It's best to run a test pattern while tweaking. I use C1 for Kicks - keyboard transpose is off for the sine layer - you can of course transpose this up or down to fit your needs.
> 
> -Once you are comfortable with the sine, try a square wave instead for crunchy 8-bit-ish kicks. When you start trying other samples you enter interesting territory.
> 
> -Play with the envelopes - especially pitch (Aux) envelope shape to creates different sweeps and whoops.
> 
> -On the sine layer, turn on keyboard transpose and put a tom map on layer 2 = Tunable toms!
> 
> -Replace the Sine with a noise or cymbal sample with a long tail, and put a snare map on layer 2. Change filter on layer one to bandpass and you have a nice snare template. Same for hihats, or indeed almost any perscussion type. Adding a filter envelope with a little resonance can give good results too.
> 
> - think of a drum, any drum.
> 
> 
> The advantages of doing it this way:
> - immediate hands-on control over key drum parameters means you can fit the kick nicely to a running kit/pattern.
> - You can use the same presets for different songs and you can record knobs-tweaks on the fly to make you kits come alive. Combine this with automation tracks and X-mix and you have entire kits that can change just by activating your automation track (see tip C at http://launch.groups.yahoo.com/group/xl7/message/19791). I haven't tried this yet, but I will next. 
> 
> etc. etc.
> 
> Of course you are free to adapat and improve this patch - if you come-up with something interesting, or if you do it another way, please share it!
> 
> Cheers,
> J
> 19/1/2011
>

Matt is exactly right and so are you.

(1) The template (as found in JH_Sine_Kick_empty.zip) is "empty" [i.e., it has no sound].

(2) The templatye designer " . . . left the instrument layers blank so that it <should> work for you. For a start, just put a sine wave on layer 1 and your favourite kickmap on layer 2."

I hope this helps.

Steve


--- In xl7@yahoogroups.com, "laszlozizics" <fantahs@...> wrote:
>
> no sound in this patch...
> 
> 
> --- In xl7@yahoogroups.com, "stimresp" <stimresp@> wrote:
> >
> > Hello All,
> > 
> > Following-on from the discussion about Kick drums (Yahoo XL-7 group), I revisited my template patch, made some changes, and uploaded the result in the files section in case anyone is interested (Filename: JH_Sine_Kick_empty.zip).
> > 
> > The patch is in proteum xml format so you will need to fire-up this editor to load it. http://www.emigr8.me.uk/music/tools/proteum.htm
> > 
> > I have left the instrument layers blank so that it <should> work for you. For a start, just put a sine wave on layer 1 and your favourite kickmap on layer 2. Of course you can use the transpose function on layer 2 to change samples.
> > 
> > The patch works on 2 levels:
> > 1. A sinewave linked to pitch envelope - 12 of the front knobs are dedicated to controlling this Sine so that you can easily produce 808ish kick drums with a solid fundamental, tuned to your needs.
> > 
> > 2. A Kick map layered below, crossfadable with HPF and pitch-controllable. This opens-up enormous possibilities for designing your own unique kicks.
> > 
> > The two layers can be blended using just the front panel knobs, and are tuneable together and in the contect of you kit/pattern/song. In this scenario, the Kickmap provides the attack, and the sine adds a good satisfying thud and/or residual sub-bass trail. I have gotten very good results using this patch - and not just for kicks. 
> > 
> > Here's what the knobs do. 
> > 
> > Knobs A-L control the Sine:
> > 
> > A = LP filter cutoff 
> > B = Pitch envelope amount
> > C = Pitch envelope speed
> > D = Release time (Pitch and Amp envelopes) 
> > 
> > E = Attack time of the sine (important for layering)
> > F = Sample start / phase (for phase matching and 808-ish clicky attacks)
> > G = Sine pitch up
> > H = Sine Pitch down
> > 
> > I = Velocity response of amp/filter/fine pitch (if sequenced well and automated, perfect for ghost notes)
> > J = Humanisation / Randomisation amount (mapped to fine pitch, sample start)
> > K = LFO amount - creates a subtle pitch wobble in the sine tail. LFO (synced, with variation) rate follows the Amp envelope.
> > L = Crossfade between layer 1 and layer 2.
> > 
> > Knobs M-P control layer 2:
> > 
> > M = Sample start/Phase
> > N = HP filter
> > O = Pitch up
> > P = Pitch down
> > 
> > Getting Started:
> > 
> > Put a sine on layer 1 and a Kickmap on layer 2. Ensure the filter (A) is open and the crossfade (L) is all the way to the left so we are hearing only the sine. Set the the Pitch env amount (B) to 12 o clock and slowly bring-up the envelope speed knob (C) to about 3 o clock . Adjust the decay (D) - but don't over do it!
> > 
> > Using just these three knobs you can get a decent selection of sine kicks, however we are limited here by the envelopes (see note below), not only because they are linear/slow, but you may be able to discern a slight pop on the attack. You can attentuate this by carefully adjusting the pitch envelope parameters and filtering the result. Alternatively you can accentuate this artefact by changing the sample start time/phase (F) which introduces a clicky attack to the sine. Tune the sine using knobs G and H.
> > 
> > Now crossfade (L) to 12 o clock so that the Kicklayer is audible. In most cases, layering will cause fequency and phase clashes, which can undermine the fundamental and thus the solidity of the whole Kick. To get a nice clear sound, use the filters (A and N) for frequency seperation and carefully adjust layer 2 sample start point (M). You might want to introduce a small amount of attack on the sine (E) and adjust the pitch of layer 2 (O and P) to make everthing fit. With a little work you can get anything from soft to pumping bass drums - and you can control the Attack and Thump amounts realtime using the crossfade knob (L).  
> > 
> > Knobs I-J introduce Velocity sensitivity, Humanisation and an LFO wobble on the sine tail. Used sparingly they can give pleasing micro-variations to your patterns. 
> > 
> > 
> > Note about envelopes: The proteus module envelopes are linear (aren't they?) and so not really suited to creating those convinvcing super-punchy sine pitch drops. You can come close (e.g. gain4x-envelope) but this only accentuates the attack 'pop' of the sine pitch envelope. This nearly drove me crazy - at some envelope settings the pop is noticeable enough to cause an undesireable doubling effect on the attack. To remedy this, play a little with the pitch envelope settings, and if necessary, use the filter to remove any residuals. When layering, adjust the attack and sample start times so that the samples are more phase-aligned. For layer 2 I left the factory envelopes on, so there are no such artifacts, and so layer 2 is more suited to provide the punchy attack (plus, the stock kick samples usually sound good anyway, but many can do with the extra balls provide by the sine :). The stock drum samples respond quite well to extreme pitch changes. Even a tiny amount of sine can make a huge difference to the feel of a kick ion a pattern (check the relative contributions by crossfading between the two layers (Knob L).
> > 
> >  
> > Taking it further: 
> > 
> > - It's a good tip design your drums, not in isolation, but in the context of the kit and pattern in use. It's best to run a test pattern while tweaking. I use C1 for Kicks - keyboard transpose is off for the sine layer - you can of course transpose this up or down to fit your needs.
> > 
> > -Once you are comfortable with the sine, try a square wave instead for crunchy 8-bit-ish kicks. When you start trying other samples you enter interesting territory.
> > 
> > -Play with the envelopes - especially pitch (Aux) envelope shape to creates different sweeps and whoops.
> > 
> > -On the sine layer, turn on keyboard transpose and put a tom map on layer 2 = Tunable toms!
> > 
> > -Replace the Sine with a noise or cymbal sample with a long tail, and put a snare map on layer 2. Change filter on layer one to bandpass and you have a nice snare template. Same for hihats, or indeed almost any perscussion type. Adding a filter envelope with a little resonance can give good results too.
> > 
> > - think of a drum, any drum.
> > 
> > 
> > The advantages of doing it this way:
> > - immediate hands-on control over key drum parameters means you can fit the kick nicely to a running kit/pattern.
> > - You can use the same presets for different songs and you can record knobs-tweaks on the fly to make you kits come alive. Combine this with automation tracks and X-mix and you have entire kits that can change just by activating your automation track (see tip C at http://launch.groups.yahoo.com/group/xl7/message/19791). I haven't tried this yet, but I will next. 
> > 
> > etc. etc.
> > 
> > Of course you are free to adapat and improve this patch - if you come-up with something interesting, or if you do it another way, please share it!
> > 
> > Cheers,
> > J
> > 19/1/2011
> >
>

BTW, thanks for sharing the template and very special thanks for breaking down the patch and how to use it. I don't do much with drum kits, but the logic of how you approach sound design and is very insightful!
Steve

Hi,
I don't know if anyone else has got this patch to work via Proteum - it works for me. But I could always try to sysex it if you want. 

I've been experimenting with it a bit more, trying different samples on the layers. For kicks I've defaulted to using a long 808 sample instead of the sine, and an acoustic sample on layer 2. It still takes careful tweaking of the sample start times to pevent phasing, but the results are pretty good -  a lot of range available from the front knobs. 

Also getting results with the sine, but with keytracking on - gets great sub-bass out of the CS.

cheers,
J






--- In xl7@yahoogroups.com, "steve_the_composer" <smw-mail@...> wrote:
>
> Matt is exactly right and so are you.
> 
> (1) The template (as found in JH_Sine_Kick_empty.zip) is "empty" [i.e., it has no sound].
> 
> (2) The templatye designer " . . . left the instrument layers blank so that it <should> work for you. For a start, just put a sine wave on layer 1 and your favourite kickmap on layer 2."
> 
> I hope this helps.
> 
> Steve
> 
> 
> --- In xl7@yahoogroups.com, "laszlozizics" <fantahs@> wrote:
> >
> > no sound in this patch...
> > 
> > 
> > --- In xl7@yahoogroups.com, "stimresp" <stimresp@> wrote:
> > >
> > > Hello All,
> > > 
> > > Following-on from the discussion about Kick drums (Yahoo XL-7 group), I revisited my template patch, made some changes, and uploaded the result in the files section in case anyone is interested (Filename: JH_Sine_Kick_empty.zip).
> > > 
> > > The patch is in proteum xml format so you will need to fire-up this editor to load it. http://www.emigr8.me.uk/music/tools/proteum.htm
> > > 
> > > I have left the instrument layers blank so that it <should> work for you. For a start, just put a sine wave on layer 1 and your favourite kickmap on layer 2. Of course you can use the transpose function on layer 2 to change samples.
> > > 
> > > The patch works on 2 levels:
> > > 1. A sinewave linked to pitch envelope - 12 of the front knobs are dedicated to controlling this Sine so that you can easily produce 808ish kick drums with a solid fundamental, tuned to your needs.
> > > 
> > > 2. A Kick map layered below, crossfadable with HPF and pitch-controllable. This opens-up enormous possibilities for designing your own unique kicks.
> > > 
> > > The two layers can be blended using just the front panel knobs, and are tuneable together and in the contect of you kit/pattern/song. In this scenario, the Kickmap provides the attack, and the sine adds a good satisfying thud and/or residual sub-bass trail. I have gotten very good results using this patch - and not just for kicks. 
> > > 
> > > Here's what the knobs do. 
> > > 
> > > Knobs A-L control the Sine:
> > > 
> > > A = LP filter cutoff 
> > > B = Pitch envelope amount
> > > C = Pitch envelope speed
> > > D = Release time (Pitch and Amp envelopes) 
> > > 
> > > E = Attack time of the sine (important for layering)
> > > F = Sample start / phase (for phase matching and 808-ish clicky attacks)
> > > G = Sine pitch up
> > > H = Sine Pitch down
> > > 
> > > I = Velocity response of amp/filter/fine pitch (if sequenced well and automated, perfect for ghost notes)
> > > J = Humanisation / Randomisation amount (mapped to fine pitch, sample start)
> > > K = LFO amount - creates a subtle pitch wobble in the sine tail. LFO (synced, with variation) rate follows the Amp envelope.
> > > L = Crossfade between layer 1 and layer 2.
> > > 
> > > Knobs M-P control layer 2:
> > > 
> > > M = Sample start/Phase
> > > N = HP filter
> > > O = Pitch up
> > > P = Pitch down
> > > 
> > > Getting Started:
> > > 
> > > Put a sine on layer 1 and a Kickmap on layer 2. Ensure the filter (A) is open and the crossfade (L) is all the way to the left so we are hearing only the sine. Set the the Pitch env amount (B) to 12 o clock and slowly bring-up the envelope speed knob (C) to about 3 o clock . Adjust the decay (D) - but don't over do it!
> > > 
> > > Using just these three knobs you can get a decent selection of sine kicks, however we are limited here by the envelopes (see note below), not only because they are linear/slow, but you may be able to discern a slight pop on the attack. You can attentuate this by carefully adjusting the pitch envelope parameters and filtering the result. Alternatively you can accentuate this artefact by changing the sample start time/phase (F) which introduces a clicky attack to the sine. Tune the sine using knobs G and H.
> > > 
> > > Now crossfade (L) to 12 o clock so that the Kicklayer is audible. In most cases, layering will cause fequency and phase clashes, which can undermine the fundamental and thus the solidity of the whole Kick. To get a nice clear sound, use the filters (A and N) for frequency seperation and carefully adjust layer 2 sample start point (M). You might want to introduce a small amount of attack on the sine (E) and adjust the pitch of layer 2 (O and P) to make everthing fit. With a little work you can get anything from soft to pumping bass drums - and you can control the Attack and Thump amounts realtime using the crossfade knob (L).  
> > > 
> > > Knobs I-J introduce Velocity sensitivity, Humanisation and an LFO wobble on the sine tail. Used sparingly they can give pleasing micro-variations to your patterns. 
> > > 
> > > 
> > > Note about envelopes: The proteus module envelopes are linear (aren't they?) and so not really suited to creating those convinvcing super-punchy sine pitch drops. You can come close (e.g. gain4x-envelope) but this only accentuates the attack 'pop' of the sine pitch envelope. This nearly drove me crazy - at some envelope settings the pop is noticeable enough to cause an undesireable doubling effect on the attack. To remedy this, play a little with the pitch envelope settings, and if necessary, use the filter to remove any residuals. When layering, adjust the attack and sample start times so that the samples are more phase-aligned. For layer 2 I left the factory envelopes on, so there are no such artifacts, and so layer 2 is more suited to provide the punchy attack (plus, the stock kick samples usually sound good anyway, but many can do with the extra balls provide by the sine :). The stock drum samples respond quite well to extreme pitch changes. Even a tiny amount of sine can make a huge difference to the feel of a kick ion a pattern (check the relative contributions by crossfading between the two layers (Knob L).
> > > 
> > >  
> > > Taking it further: 
> > > 
> > > - It's a good tip design your drums, not in isolation, but in the context of the kit and pattern in use. It's best to run a test pattern while tweaking. I use C1 for Kicks - keyboard transpose is off for the sine layer - you can of course transpose this up or down to fit your needs.
> > > 
> > > -Once you are comfortable with the sine, try a square wave instead for crunchy 8-bit-ish kicks. When you start trying other samples you enter interesting territory.
> > > 
> > > -Play with the envelopes - especially pitch (Aux) envelope shape to creates different sweeps and whoops.
> > > 
> > > -On the sine layer, turn on keyboard transpose and put a tom map on layer 2 = Tunable toms!
> > > 
> > > -Replace the Sine with a noise or cymbal sample with a long tail, and put a snare map on layer 2. Change filter on layer one to bandpass and you have a nice snare template. Same for hihats, or indeed almost any perscussion type. Adding a filter envelope with a little resonance can give good results too.
> > > 
> > > - think of a drum, any drum.
> > > 
> > > 
> > > The advantages of doing it this way:
> > > - immediate hands-on control over key drum parameters means you can fit the kick nicely to a running kit/pattern.
> > > - You can use the same presets for different songs and you can record knobs-tweaks on the fly to make you kits come alive. Combine this with automation tracks and X-mix and you have entire kits that can change just by activating your automation track (see tip C at http://launch.groups.yahoo.com/group/xl7/message/19791). I haven't tried this yet, but I will next. 
> > > 
> > > etc. etc.
> > > 
> > > Of course you are free to adapat and improve this patch - if you come-up with something interesting, or if you do it another way, please share it!
> > > 
> > > Cheers,
> > > J
> > > 19/1/2011
> > >
> >
>

Yup. I got it to work. It seemed to everything you said it would. I was pleasantly surprised to find I already had the latest version of Proteum installed on my PC and it was easy enough to unzip your template and put it into a vacant memory slot, tweak it, etc.

It has started me thinking about making my own patch templates. Maybe yours will inspire others as well.

At one point I set up a knob to do later crossfades (L1->L2->L3->4), but I forgot what patch I did that with. Perhaps I will reconstruct that for one of my own templates. (Just thinking out loud here and wondering what other knob functions others have come up with--either in templates or individually.)

Again, thanks for sharing the template

Steve
 

--- In xl7@yahoogroups.com, "stimresp" <stimresp@...> wrote:
>
> Hi,
> I don't know if anyone else has got this patch to work via Proteum - it works for me. But I could always try to sysex it if you want. 
> 
> I've been experimenting with it a bit more, trying different samples on the layers. For kicks I've defaulted to using a long 808 sample instead of the sine, and an acoustic sample on layer 2. It still takes careful tweaking of the sample start times to pevent phasing, but the results are pretty good -  a lot of range available from the front knobs. 
> 
> Also getting results with the sine, but with keytracking on - gets great sub-bass out of the CS.
> 
> cheers,
> J
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> --- In xl7@yahoogroups.com, "steve_the_composer" <smw-mail@> wrote:
> >
> > Matt is exactly right and so are you.
> > 
> > (1) The template (as found in JH_Sine_Kick_empty.zip) is "empty" [i.e., it has no sound].
> > 
> > (2) The templatye designer " . . . left the instrument layers blank so that it <should> work for you. For a start, just put a sine wave on layer 1 and your favourite kickmap on layer 2."
> > 
> > I hope this helps.
> > 
> > Steve
> > 
> > 
> > --- In xl7@yahoogroups.com, "laszlozizics" <fantahs@> wrote:
> > >
> > > no sound in this patch...
> > > 
> > > 
> > > --- In xl7@yahoogroups.com, "stimresp" <stimresp@> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > Hello All,
> > > > 
> > > > Following-on from the discussion about Kick drums (Yahoo XL-7 group), I revisited my template patch, made some changes, and uploaded the result in the files section in case anyone is interested (Filename: JH_Sine_Kick_empty.zip).
> > > > 
> > > > The patch is in proteum xml format so you will need to fire-up this editor to load it. http://www.emigr8.me.uk/music/tools/proteum.htm
> > > > 
> > > > I have left the instrument layers blank so that it <should> work for you. For a start, just put a sine wave on layer 1 and your favourite kickmap on layer 2. Of course you can use the transpose function on layer 2 to change samples.
> > > > 
> > > > The patch works on 2 levels:
> > > > 1. A sinewave linked to pitch envelope - 12 of the front knobs are dedicated to controlling this Sine so that you can easily produce 808ish kick drums with a solid fundamental, tuned to your needs.
> > > > 
> > > > 2. A Kick map layered below, crossfadable with HPF and pitch-controllable. This opens-up enormous possibilities for designing your own unique kicks.
> > > > 
> > > > The two layers can be blended using just the front panel knobs, and are tuneable together and in the contect of you kit/pattern/song. In this scenario, the Kickmap provides the attack, and the sine adds a good satisfying thud and/or residual sub-bass trail. I have gotten very good results using this patch - and not just for kicks. 
> > > > 
> > > > Here's what the knobs do. 
> > > > 
> > > > Knobs A-L control the Sine:
> > > > 
> > > > A = LP filter cutoff 
> > > > B = Pitch envelope amount
> > > > C = Pitch envelope speed
> > > > D = Release time (Pitch and Amp envelopes) 
> > > > 
> > > > E = Attack time of the sine (important for layering)
> > > > F = Sample start / phase (for phase matching and 808-ish clicky attacks)
> > > > G = Sine pitch up
> > > > H = Sine Pitch down
> > > > 
> > > > I = Velocity response of amp/filter/fine pitch (if sequenced well and automated, perfect for ghost notes)
> > > > J = Humanisation / Randomisation amount (mapped to fine pitch, sample start)
> > > > K = LFO amount - creates a subtle pitch wobble in the sine tail. LFO (synced, with variation) rate follows the Amp envelope.
> > > > L = Crossfade between layer 1 and layer 2.
> > > > 
> > > > Knobs M-P control layer 2:
> > > > 
> > > > M = Sample start/Phase
> > > > N = HP filter
> > > > O = Pitch up
> > > > P = Pitch down
> > > > 
> > > > Getting Started:
> > > > 
> > > > Put a sine on layer 1 and a Kickmap on layer 2. Ensure the filter (A) is open and the crossfade (L) is all the way to the left so we are hearing only the sine. Set the the Pitch env amount (B) to 12 o clock and slowly bring-up the envelope speed knob (C) to about 3 o clock . Adjust the decay (D) - but don't over do it!
> > > > 
> > > > Using just these three knobs you can get a decent selection of sine kicks, however we are limited here by the envelopes (see note below), not only because they are linear/slow, but you may be able to discern a slight pop on the attack. You can attentuate this by carefully adjusting the pitch envelope parameters and filtering the result. Alternatively you can accentuate this artefact by changing the sample start time/phase (F) which introduces a clicky attack to the sine. Tune the sine using knobs G and H.
> > > > 
> > > > Now crossfade (L) to 12 o clock so that the Kicklayer is audible. In most cases, layering will cause fequency and phase clashes, which can undermine the fundamental and thus the solidity of the whole Kick. To get a nice clear sound, use the filters (A and N) for frequency seperation and carefully adjust layer 2 sample start point (M). You might want to introduce a small amount of attack on the sine (E) and adjust the pitch of layer 2 (O and P) to make everthing fit. With a little work you can get anything from soft to pumping bass drums - and you can control the Attack and Thump amounts realtime using the crossfade knob (L).  
> > > > 
> > > > Knobs I-J introduce Velocity sensitivity, Humanisation and an LFO wobble on the sine tail. Used sparingly they can give pleasing micro-variations to your patterns. 
> > > > 
> > > > 
> > > > Note about envelopes: The proteus module envelopes are linear (aren't they?) and so not really suited to creating those convinvcing super-punchy sine pitch drops. You can come close (e.g. gain4x-envelope) but this only accentuates the attack 'pop' of the sine pitch envelope. This nearly drove me crazy - at some envelope settings the pop is noticeable enough to cause an undesireable doubling effect on the attack. To remedy this, play a little with the pitch envelope settings, and if necessary, use the filter to remove any residuals. When layering, adjust the attack and sample start times so that the samples are more phase-aligned. For layer 2 I left the factory envelopes on, so there are no such artifacts, and so layer 2 is more suited to provide the punchy attack (plus, the stock kick samples usually sound good anyway, but many can do with the extra balls provide by the sine :). The stock drum samples respond quite well to extreme pitch changes. Even a tiny amount of sine can make a huge difference to the feel of a kick ion a pattern (check the relative contributions by crossfading between the two layers (Knob L).
> > > > 
> > > >  
> > > > Taking it further: 
> > > > 
> > > > - It's a good tip design your drums, not in isolation, but in the context of the kit and pattern in use. It's best to run a test pattern while tweaking. I use C1 for Kicks - keyboard transpose is off for the sine layer - you can of course transpose this up or down to fit your needs.
> > > > 
> > > > -Once you are comfortable with the sine, try a square wave instead for crunchy 8-bit-ish kicks. When you start trying other samples you enter interesting territory.
> > > > 
> > > > -Play with the envelopes - especially pitch (Aux) envelope shape to creates different sweeps and whoops.
> > > > 
> > > > -On the sine layer, turn on keyboard transpose and put a tom map on layer 2 = Tunable toms!
> > > > 
> > > > -Replace the Sine with a noise or cymbal sample with a long tail, and put a snare map on layer 2. Change filter on layer one to bandpass and you have a nice snare template. Same for hihats, or indeed almost any perscussion type. Adding a filter envelope with a little resonance can give good results too.
> > > > 
> > > > - think of a drum, any drum.
> > > > 
> > > > 
> > > > The advantages of doing it this way:
> > > > - immediate hands-on control over key drum parameters means you can fit the kick nicely to a running kit/pattern.
> > > > - You can use the same presets for different songs and you can record knobs-tweaks on the fly to make you kits come alive. Combine this with automation tracks and X-mix and you have entire kits that can change just by activating your automation track (see tip C at http://launch.groups.yahoo.com/group/xl7/message/19791). I haven't tried this yet, but I will next. 
> > > > 
> > > > etc. etc.
> > > > 
> > > > Of course you are free to adapat and improve this patch - if you come-up with something interesting, or if you do it another way, please share it!
> > > > 
> > > > Cheers,
> > > > J
> > > > 19/1/2011
> > > >
> > >
> >
>

Thanks Steve. Good to know it works. 

I lost all my patches last year, but looking to rebuild a few. Would be happy to share these as they become ready. I have a very usable synth bass patch using layer crossfades from as you describe, sine-triangle-saw-square, and with full envelope control of amp/filter. Simple but effective and good fodder for the filters.

From an idea in an old post here, I also made-up a template for a 12-layer crossefade patch (by linking presets) for some basic wavetable/waveseqencing fun.  

I'd love to see what others are coming up with.

Cheers,
J



--- In xl7@yahoogroups.com, "steve_the_composer" <smw-mail@...> wrote:
>
> Yup. I got it to work. It seemed to everything you said it would. I was pleasantly surprised to find I already had the latest version of Proteum installed on my PC and it was easy enough to unzip your template and put it into a vacant memory slot, tweak it, etc.
> 
> It has started me thinking about making my own patch templates. Maybe yours will inspire others as well.
> 
> At one point I set up a knob to do later crossfades (L1->L2->L3->4), but I forgot what patch I did that with. Perhaps I will reconstruct that for one of my own templates. (Just thinking out loud here and wondering what other knob functions others have come up with--either in templates or individually.)
> 
> Again, thanks for sharing the template
> 
> Steve
>  
> 
> --- In xl7@yahoogroups.com, "stimresp" <stimresp@> wrote:
> >
> > Hi,
> > I don't know if anyone else has got this patch to work via Proteum - it works for me. But I could always try to sysex it if you want. 
> > 
> > I've been experimenting with it a bit more, trying different samples on the layers. For kicks I've defaulted to using a long 808 sample instead of the sine, and an acoustic sample on layer 2. It still takes careful tweaking of the sample start times to pevent phasing, but the results are pretty good -  a lot of range available from the front knobs. 
> > 
> > Also getting results with the sine, but with keytracking on - gets great sub-bass out of the CS.
> > 
> > cheers,
> > J
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > --- In xl7@yahoogroups.com, "steve_the_composer" <smw-mail@> wrote:
> > >
> > > Matt is exactly right and so are you.
> > > 
> > > (1) The template (as found in JH_Sine_Kick_empty.zip) is "empty" [i.e., it has no sound].
> > > 
> > > (2) The templatye designer " . . . left the instrument layers blank so that it <should> work for you. For a start, just put a sine wave on layer 1 and your favourite kickmap on layer 2."
> > > 
> > > I hope this helps.
> > > 
> > > Steve
> > > 
> > > 
> > > --- In xl7@yahoogroups.com, "laszlozizics" <fantahs@> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > no sound in this patch...
> > > > 
> > > > 
> > > > --- In xl7@yahoogroups.com, "stimresp" <stimresp@> wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > Hello All,
> > > > > 
> > > > > Following-on from the discussion about Kick drums (Yahoo XL-7 group), I revisited my template patch, made some changes, and uploaded the result in the files section in case anyone is interested (Filename: JH_Sine_Kick_empty.zip).
> > > > > 
> > > > > The patch is in proteum xml format so you will need to fire-up this editor to load it. http://www.emigr8.me.uk/music/tools/proteum.htm
> > > > > 
> > > > > I have left the instrument layers blank so that it <should> work for you. For a start, just put a sine wave on layer 1 and your favourite kickmap on layer 2. Of course you can use the transpose function on layer 2 to change samples.
> > > > > 
> > > > > The patch works on 2 levels:
> > > > > 1. A sinewave linked to pitch envelope - 12 of the front knobs are dedicated to controlling this Sine so that you can easily produce 808ish kick drums with a solid fundamental, tuned to your needs.
> > > > > 
> > > > > 2. A Kick map layered below, crossfadable with HPF and pitch-controllable. This opens-up enormous possibilities for designing your own unique kicks.
> > > > > 
> > > > > The two layers can be blended using just the front panel knobs, and are tuneable together and in the contect of you kit/pattern/song. In this scenario, the Kickmap provides the attack, and the sine adds a good satisfying thud and/or residual sub-bass trail. I have gotten very good results using this patch - and not just for kicks. 
> > > > > 
> > > > > Here's what the knobs do. 
> > > > > 
> > > > > Knobs A-L control the Sine:
> > > > > 
> > > > > A = LP filter cutoff 
> > > > > B = Pitch envelope amount
> > > > > C = Pitch envelope speed
> > > > > D = Release time (Pitch and Amp envelopes) 
> > > > > 
> > > > > E = Attack time of the sine (important for layering)
> > > > > F = Sample start / phase (for phase matching and 808-ish clicky attacks)
> > > > > G = Sine pitch up
> > > > > H = Sine Pitch down
> > > > > 
> > > > > I = Velocity response of amp/filter/fine pitch (if sequenced well and automated, perfect for ghost notes)
> > > > > J = Humanisation / Randomisation amount (mapped to fine pitch, sample start)
> > > > > K = LFO amount - creates a subtle pitch wobble in the sine tail. LFO (synced, with variation) rate follows the Amp envelope.
> > > > > L = Crossfade between layer 1 and layer 2.
> > > > > 
> > > > > Knobs M-P control layer 2:
> > > > > 
> > > > > M = Sample start/Phase
> > > > > N = HP filter
> > > > > O = Pitch up
> > > > > P = Pitch down
> > > > > 
> > > > > Getting Started:
> > > > > 
> > > > > Put a sine on layer 1 and a Kickmap on layer 2. Ensure the filter (A) is open and the crossfade (L) is all the way to the left so we are hearing only the sine. Set the the Pitch env amount (B) to 12 o clock and slowly bring-up the envelope speed knob (C) to about 3 o clock . Adjust the decay (D) - but don't over do it!
> > > > > 
> > > > > Using just these three knobs you can get a decent selection of sine kicks, however we are limited here by the envelopes (see note below), not only because they are linear/slow, but you may be able to discern a slight pop on the attack. You can attentuate this by carefully adjusting the pitch envelope parameters and filtering the result. Alternatively you can accentuate this artefact by changing the sample start time/phase (F) which introduces a clicky attack to the sine. Tune the sine using knobs G and H.
> > > > > 
> > > > > Now crossfade (L) to 12 o clock so that the Kicklayer is audible. In most cases, layering will cause fequency and phase clashes, which can undermine the fundamental and thus the solidity of the whole Kick. To get a nice clear sound, use the filters (A and N) for frequency seperation and carefully adjust layer 2 sample start point (M). You might want to introduce a small amount of attack on the sine (E) and adjust the pitch of layer 2 (O and P) to make everthing fit. With a little work you can get anything from soft to pumping bass drums - and you can control the Attack and Thump amounts realtime using the crossfade knob (L).  
> > > > > 
> > > > > Knobs I-J introduce Velocity sensitivity, Humanisation and an LFO wobble on the sine tail. Used sparingly they can give pleasing micro-variations to your patterns. 
> > > > > 
> > > > > 
> > > > > Note about envelopes: The proteus module envelopes are linear (aren't they?) and so not really suited to creating those convinvcing super-punchy sine pitch drops. You can come close (e.g. gain4x-envelope) but this only accentuates the attack 'pop' of the sine pitch envelope. This nearly drove me crazy - at some envelope settings the pop is noticeable enough to cause an undesireable doubling effect on the attack. To remedy this, play a little with the pitch envelope settings, and if necessary, use the filter to remove any residuals. When layering, adjust the attack and sample start times so that the samples are more phase-aligned. For layer 2 I left the factory envelopes on, so there are no such artifacts, and so layer 2 is more suited to provide the punchy attack (plus, the stock kick samples usually sound good anyway, but many can do with the extra balls provide by the sine :). The stock drum samples respond quite well to extreme pitch changes. Even a tiny amount of sine can make a huge difference to the feel of a kick ion a pattern (check the relative contributions by crossfading between the two layers (Knob L).
> > > > > 
> > > > >  
> > > > > Taking it further: 
> > > > > 
> > > > > - It's a good tip design your drums, not in isolation, but in the context of the kit and pattern in use. It's best to run a test pattern while tweaking. I use C1 for Kicks - keyboard transpose is off for the sine layer - you can of course transpose this up or down to fit your needs.
> > > > > 
> > > > > -Once you are comfortable with the sine, try a square wave instead for crunchy 8-bit-ish kicks. When you start trying other samples you enter interesting territory.
> > > > > 
> > > > > -Play with the envelopes - especially pitch (Aux) envelope shape to creates different sweeps and whoops.
> > > > > 
> > > > > -On the sine layer, turn on keyboard transpose and put a tom map on layer 2 = Tunable toms!
> > > > > 
> > > > > -Replace the Sine with a noise or cymbal sample with a long tail, and put a snare map on layer 2. Change filter on layer one to bandpass and you have a nice snare template. Same for hihats, or indeed almost any perscussion type. Adding a filter envelope with a little resonance can give good results too.
> > > > > 
> > > > > - think of a drum, any drum.
> > > > > 
> > > > > 
> > > > > The advantages of doing it this way:
> > > > > - immediate hands-on control over key drum parameters means you can fit the kick nicely to a running kit/pattern.
> > > > > - You can use the same presets for different songs and you can record knobs-tweaks on the fly to make you kits come alive. Combine this with automation tracks and X-mix and you have entire kits that can change just by activating your automation track (see tip C at http://launch.groups.yahoo.com/group/xl7/message/19791). I haven't tried this yet, but I will next. 
> > > > > 
> > > > > etc. etc.
> > > > > 
> > > > > Of course you are free to adapat and improve this patch - if you come-up with something interesting, or if you do it another way, please share it!
> > > > > 
> > > > > Cheers,
> > > > > J
> > > > > 19/1/2011
> > > > >
> > > >
> > >
> >
>

Now that you mention it, I seem to remember something about a 12-layer crossfade. I have never made any linked presets--except for one time when I was trying to figure out what info comes from the first preset and in essence overrides info in the linked presets. 

One time, I was experimenting with crossfading basically the same sound on all 4 layers except for filter type and filter settings. I don't know where those patches are, but I might revisit the concept and see if I can come up with any that are worth sharing. I could probably do a template without ROM instruments like you did once I get some filter combos that are template worthy. Hmmmmm. A 12-layer filter crossfade where one knob goes through a progression of filters and another knob that starts off with a basic waveform and goes through a progression of more complex but similar sounding waves. Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm!!!

Also, I'd certainly be interested in playing around with your layer crossfades.

Steve




--- In xl7@yahoogroups.com, "stimresp" <stimresp@...> wrote:
>
> Thanks Steve. Good to know it works. 
> 
> I lost all my patches last year, but looking to rebuild a few. Would be happy to share these as they become ready. I have a very usable synth bass patch using layer crossfades from as you describe, sine-triangle-saw-square, and with full envelope control of amp/filter. Simple but effective and good fodder for the filters.
> 
> From an idea in an old post here, I also made-up a template for a 12-layer crossefade patch (by linking presets) for some basic wavetable/waveseqencing fun.  
> 
> I'd love to see what others are coming up with.
> 
> Cheers,
> J
>

2011/3/9 steve_the_composer <smw-mail@...>:
> A 12-layer filter crossfade where one knob goes through a progression of filters

Or the same filter, but 12 different settings of resonance, so you can
cheat and have the resonance not "NoteOn only"...

Cool "cheat"! I never thought of it, perhaps because I have realtime resonance sweeps on my Roland M-GS64 which predates my P2K based E-Mu gear. Of ocurse, now that you mentioned it, I will probably make some time to give it a try! (I am a big fan of filter/resonance sweeps.)
Steve


--- In xl7@yahoogroups.com, Bruno <brunorc@...> wrote:
>
> 2011/3/9 steve_the_composer <smw-mail@...>:
> > A 12-layer filter crossfade where one knob goes through a progression of filters
> 
> Or the same filter, but 12 different settings of resonance, so you can
> cheat and have the resonance not "NoteOn only"...
>