Emu XL-7 & MP-7 User's Group

i'm curious what ROMs/sounds/effects ya'll are using for kick drums, in 
different styles of electronic music....


-- 
         ...atom

  ________________________
  http://atom.smasher.org/
  762A 3B98 A3C3 96C9 C6B7 582A B88D 52E4 D9F5 7808
  -------------------------------------------------

 	"Facts are stupid things."
 		-- Ronald Reagan (1988)

The Beat Garden rom gets most used for kicks. Occasionally I'll use the 909 Kit from the XLead rom when I want something punchier. Or you can try layering. Maybe try a deep 808 kick on track 1, and then on track 2 put a dry "real" kick drum. The Beat Garden has plenty to pick from. Adjust the volume of both tracks until you find the sweet spot. 

--- In xl7@...m, Atom Smasher <atom@...> wrote:
>
> i'm curious what ROMs/sounds/effects ya'll are using for kick drums, in 
> different styles of electronic music....
> 
> 
> -- 
>          ...atom
> 
>   ________________________
>   http://atom.smasher.org/
>   762A 3B98 A3C3 96C9 C6B7 582A B88D 52E4 D9F5 7808
>   -------------------------------------------------
> 
>  	"Facts are stupid things."
>  		-- Ronald Reagan (1988)
>

Regba patch has a good kick
909 or 909 stack or super 9
808
Also Dance hip hop kicks patches from drum rom have good sounds.
I like to get tribal with it too sometimes I use the carnaval and hand drum and liquidity also has cool bwoopy drums. Tons of good patches in this box. I like to throw hand drums or djembe type sounds on in triplets for super tribal feel.
Most of my user sound creation time has gone into basslines. As far as roms I have beat garden, drum, xl7, and world.
I am still a beginner but I love this box. Super deep.

I made a template patch that allows me to design my Kick (and other) drums, 'on the fly'.

Essentially it comprises 4 layers, each with a different kit (809-909-Acoustic, etc), volume ranges slightly overlapping. I can RTx crossfade /blend these using a knob. Another knob allows choosing of sample start point (can give a nice click attack to an 808 kick, or soften a 909).

Further knobs are mapped to Pitch envelope - the effect of turning this is akin to tightening the drum head, which makes everything a lot more punchy - and another knob to control overall pitch (either up or down).

Similarly I use a knob to control the depth of Filter envelope. 

Playing around with these few controls can provide a good range and allows you to fit or tune your drum specifically for your composition.

Taking it further, you could put a sine wave with a medium attack on one layer and map two knobs to it's volume and Envelope decay - can provide a nice 'boooom' or rattle with some vibrato - but easily overdone. I tend to HP or BP filter my kicks (everything in fact) - I haven't been able to get the EQ filters to eliminate low frequency mud as effectively.

For variation, you can use the Vel-Amp knob to bring-in and out ghost notes - which can be very effective. You could assign another knob to control randomness from a KeyRnd or LFO mapped to Volume.

There are lots of ways to go from there. I use this same template, with minor modifications, to design snares, hats, Toms, etc - all from the same basic template which only needs to be set-up once (though it took a lot of experimentation - you will need Prodatum :) Maybe I'll post a screenshot.

But I think of all the above, the most important aspect to consider in  making your sounds unique, is familiarity with the envelopes. Play with these and you will be richly rewarded. I recommend you start with only a sine wave and the envelopes - it will give you 'the feel'.

FWIW I have a XL-7 with Pop, Vintage and Ensoniq roms. The stock ROM has plenty of good kits IMO. The Vintage collection Kits are quite nice, but my favs are in the Ensoniq Project Rom. It is set-up as a kit-builder, so you are encouraged to use 3 layers per kit. However, nothing beats the flexibility of keeping it to one drum type per track and tweaking the hell out of it as above, and for that any kit can be used as basis. 

Good Luck!
J
--- In xl7@...m, Atom Smasher <atom@...> wrote:
>
> i'm curious what ROMs/sounds/effects ya'll are using for kick drums, in 
> different styles of electronic music....
> 
> 
> -- 
>          ...atom
> 
>   ________________________
>   http://atom.smasher.org/
>   762A 3B98 A3C3 96C9 C6B7 582A B88D 52E4 D9F5 7808
>   -------------------------------------------------
> 
>  	"Facts are stupid things."
>  		-- Ronald Reagan (1988)
>

quality post, many good ideas. 
this deserves turning into a document file of some sort & putting in the files section under "tips & tricks".

duncan.

--- In xl7@yahoogroups.com, "jarlath34" <stimresp@...> wrote:
>
> I made a template patch that allows me to design my Kick (and other) drums, 'on the fly'.
> 
> Essentially it comprises 4 layers, each with a different kit (809-909-Acoustic, etc), volume ranges slightly overlapping. I can RTx crossfade /blend these using a knob. Another knob allows choosing of sample start point (can give a nice click attack to an 808 kick, or soften a 909).
> 
> Further knobs are mapped to Pitch envelope - the effect of turning this is akin to tightening the drum head, which makes everything a lot more punchy - and another knob to control overall pitch (either up or down).
> 
> Similarly I use a knob to control the depth of Filter envelope. 
> 
> Playing around with these few controls can provide a good range and allows you to fit or tune your drum specifically for your composition.
> 
> Taking it further, you could put a sine wave with a medium attack on one layer and map two knobs to it's volume and Envelope decay - can provide a nice 'boooom' or rattle with some vibrato - but easily overdone. I tend to HP or BP filter my kicks (everything in fact) - I haven't been able to get the EQ filters to eliminate low frequency mud as effectively.
> 
> For variation, you can use the Vel-Amp knob to bring-in and out ghost notes - which can be very effective. You could assign another knob to control randomness from a KeyRnd or LFO mapped to Volume.
> 
> There are lots of ways to go from there. I use this same template, with minor modifications, to design snares, hats, Toms, etc - all from the same basic template which only needs to be set-up once (though it took a lot of experimentation - you will need Prodatum :) Maybe I'll post a screenshot.
> 
> But I think of all the above, the most important aspect to consider in  making your sounds unique, is familiarity with the envelopes. Play with these and you will be richly rewarded. I recommend you start with only a sine wave and the envelopes - it will give you 'the feel'.
> 
> FWIW I have a XL-7 with Pop, Vintage and Ensoniq roms. The stock ROM has plenty of good kits IMO. The Vintage collection Kits are quite nice, but my favs are in the Ensoniq Project Rom. It is set-up as a kit-builder, so you are encouraged to use 3 layers per kit. However, nothing beats the flexibility of keeping it to one drum type per track and tweaking the hell out of it as above, and for that any kit can be used as basis. 
> 
> Good Luck!
> J
> --- In xl7@yahoogroups.com, Atom Smasher <atom@> wrote:
> >
> > i'm curious what ROMs/sounds/effects ya'll are using for kick drums, in 
> > different styles of electronic music....
> > 
> > 
> > -- 
> >          ...atom
> > 
> >   ________________________
> >   http://atom.smasher.org/
> >   762A 3B98 A3C3 96C9 C6B7 582A B88D 52E4 D9F5 7808
> >   -------------------------------------------------
> > 
> >  	"Facts are stupid things."
> >  		-- Ronald Reagan (1988)
> >
>

Exactly. 
 
In fact that's the best way to program user patches on the CS, not just kicks. 
 
creating patch templates. 
 
A good tip is to create a high attack-fast decaying envelope on the AUXiliar. 
Then, link the pitch to the aux envelope. 
assign a knob to increase-decrease the depth amount of the link between the pitch and the aux envelope
program a knob to modulate the length of the decaying section. 
program four knobs to modulate each of the 4 instruments by separated. 
 
 


--- On Fri, 1/7/11, duncan <goddard.duncan@...> wrote:


From: duncan <goddard.duncan@...>
Subject: [xl7] Re: kick drums
To: xl7@yahoogroups.com
Date: Friday, January 7, 2011, 9:15 AM


  



quality post, many good ideas. 
this deserves turning into a document file of some sort & putting in the files section under "tips & tricks".

duncan.

--- In xl7@yahoogroups.com, "jarlath34" <stimresp@...> wrote:
>
> I made a template patch that allows me to design my Kick (and other) drums, 'on the fly'.
> 
> Essentially it comprises 4 layers, each with a different kit (809-909-Acoustic, etc), volume ranges slightly overlapping. I can RTx crossfade /blend these using a knob. Another knob allows choosing of sample start point (can give a nice click attack to an 808 kick, or soften a 909).
> 
> Further knobs are mapped to Pitch envelope - the effect of turning this is akin to tightening the drum head, which makes everything a lot more punchy - and another knob to control overall pitch (either up or down).
> 
> Similarly I use a knob to control the depth of Filter envelope. 
> 
> Playing around with these few controls can provide a good range and allows you to fit or tune your drum specifically for your composition.
> 
> Taking it further, you could put a sine wave with a medium attack on one layer and map two knobs to it's volume and Envelope decay - can provide a nice 'boooom' or rattle with some vibrato - but easily overdone. I tend to HP or BP filter my kicks (everything in fact) - I haven't been able to get the EQ filters to eliminate low frequency mud as effectively.
> 
> For variation, you can use the Vel-Amp knob to bring-in and out ghost notes - which can be very effective. You could assign another knob to control randomness from a KeyRnd or LFO mapped to Volume.
> 
> There are lots of ways to go from there. I use this same template, with minor modifications, to design snares, hats, Toms, etc - all from the same basic template which only needs to be set-up once (though it took a lot of experimentation - you will need Prodatum :) Maybe I'll post a screenshot.
> 
> But I think of all the above, the most important aspect to consider in making your sounds unique, is familiarity with the envelopes. Play with these and you will be richly rewarded. I recommend you start with only a sine wave and the envelopes - it will give you 'the feel'.
> 
> FWIW I have a XL-7 with Pop, Vintage and Ensoniq roms. The stock ROM has plenty of good kits IMO. The Vintage collection Kits are quite nice, but my favs are in the Ensoniq Project Rom. It is set-up as a kit-builder, so you are encouraged to use 3 layers per kit. However, nothing beats the flexibility of keeping it to one drum type per track and tweaking the hell out of it as above, and for that any kit can be used as basis. 
> 
> Good Luck!
> J
> --- In xl7@yahoogroups.com, Atom Smasher <atom@> wrote:
> >
> > i'm curious what ROMs/sounds/effects ya'll are using for kick drums, in 
> > different styles of electronic music....
> > 
> > 
> > -- 
> > ...atom
> > 
> > ________________________
> > http://atom.smasher.org/
> > 762A 3B98 A3C3 96C9 C6B7 582A B88D 52E4 D9F5 7808
> > -------------------------------------------------
> > 
> > "Facts are stupid things."
> > -- Ronald Reagan (1988)
> >
>

Hello,

2011/1/7 Mauricio Balma <balmaproducer@...>
> In fact that's the best way to program user patches on the CS, not just kicks.
>
> creating patch templates.

Must do the same for pads... any hints in this area?

Cheers,

Bruno

For the aux envelope mapped to pitch, you can get much steeper attack/decay by using the 4xGain processor (i.e Aux env-4xgain, 4xgain-pitch). You can even get bell-ish tones this way using only a sine wave.

Pads - for me the best pads are those that are simple but played well. One-finger swirling atmospheres are fine and easy to do, but rarely usable in a musical context.

For general patch design it helps me to consider the XL-7 as standard 4-oscillator synth. I might put a sine on layer(Osc) one and a saw on layer two - blending betweeen them for a little bite (remember - knob movements are recorded - almost like making your own custom LFO's). Maybe put a string sample on layer 3, and blend that with something in layer 4. Try out the different filters - even different filters on different layers - and modulate the cutoff, etc. There are a ridiculous amount of possibilities. 

Experimentation is wonderful, but it really helps to map out with pen and paper the kind of sound you are going for, and what you want it to do, and in the context of the e-mu architecture. That way you can approach patch editing with more purpose, rather than just sitting in front of a zillion parameters and hoping for inspiration. If you know what you want, there is a good chance the e-mu will get there, or close enough, but it requires some forward planning. 

Go for a walk - conceptualise your sound, capture the main points on paper, then dive-in.

Cheers,
J




--- In xl7@yahoogroups.com, Bruno <brunorc@...> wrote:
>
> Hello,
> 
> 2011/1/7 Mauricio Balma <balmaproducer@...>
> > In fact that's the best way to program user patches on the CS, not just kicks.
> >
> > creating patch templates.
> 
> Must do the same for pads... any hints in this area?
> 
> Cheers,
> 
> Bruno
>

Re: sp1200: Why? Is it the analog filters?

Hah that's awesome. Do you perform with it or just studio?

2011/1/7 jarlath34 <stimresp@...>:
> For the aux envelope mapped to pitch, you can get much steeper attack/decay by using the 4xGain processor (i.e Aux env-4xgain, 4xgain-pitch). You can even get bell-ish tones this way using only a sine wave.
>
> Pads - for me the best pads are those that are simple but played well. One-finger swirling atmospheres are fine and easy to do, but rarely usable in a musical context.

Well, that's mostly Korg/Roland domain. I tried to get an
"ever-evolving", but not mix-filling sound. The best way is probably
slow LFO with a lot of variation, with looped AuxEnv; then rinse and
repeat for other layers, taking care of adjusting LFO speed, so they
will not repeat easily.

> For general patch design it helps me to consider the XL-7 as standard 4-oscillator synth. I might put a sine on layer(Osc) one and a saw on layer two - blending betweeen them for a little bite (remember - knob movements are recorded - almost like making your own custom LFO's). Maybe put a string sample on layer 3, and blend that with something in layer 4. Try out the different filters - even different filters on different layers - and modulate the cutoff, etc. There are a ridiculous amount of possibilities.

True, but I tend to avoid simple waves (saw, sine, pulse). E-mu sound
is rather digital in nature, and some of the quirks of the engine make
it very non-analog. I'd rather prefer to use my Novation KS5 for it.

> Experimentation is wonderful, but it really helps to map out with pen and paper the kind of sound you are going for, and what you want it to do, and in the context of the e-mu architecture. That way you can approach patch editing with more purpose, rather than just sitting in front of a zillion parameters and hoping for inspiration. If you know what you want, there is a good chance the e-mu will get there, or close enough, but it requires some forward planning.

I would *love* to be able to see the output of a patchord, like on the
oscilloscope...

Cheers,

Bruno

http://cgi.ebay.com/Ensoniq-ASR-X-Pro-White-Internal-ZIP-Max-RAM-New-Pots-/190487331385
mint asr-x pro painted white

On Fri, Jan 7, 2011 at 2:30 PM, Matt <somatt@...> wrote:
> Yea, I'd be in but I only want rack stuff, can't gig easily with keys.