Emu XL-7 & MP-7 User's Group

i dont know,
it would be useful indeed


--- In xl7@yahoogroups.com, James Ulibarri <jamesulibarri@...> wrote:
>
> Is there a way to use the Step Sequencer and assign a CC to a parameter to a
> midi device on the midi
> chain and step in CC modulation changes?  I know how to do this in Real Time
> mode, but not step time mode.
> And that's normally with note on and note off by triggering pads.
> 
> Does anyone know what I am saying?   Step Time modulation to something that
> accepts values of 0-127.
> Obviously I will be assigning one of the knobs to the parameter that I want.
> 
> 
> Sorry, my replacement PX-7 won't be here till next week.
>

On Fri, 24 Dec 2010, James Ulibarri wrote:

> Ok, tried it.  A CC can change value but only on a Note On message from 
> the CS. Mixed results.
================

pattern edit -> event list editor -> continuous controller edit

that might not be what you're looking for, but it might do what you want.

you can also record CCs into an arbitrary track, thin the data if needed, 
copy/merge to another track if needed...


-- 
         ...atom

  ________________________
  http://atom.smasher.org/
  762A 3B98 A3C3 96C9 C6B7 582A B88D 52E4 D9F5 7808
  -------------------------------------------------

 	"We cannot simply suspend or restrict civil liberties until
 	 the War of Terror is over, because the War on Terror is
 	 unlikely ever to be truly over... September 11, 2001,
 	 already a day of immeasurable tragedy, cannot be the day
 	 liberty perished in this country."
 		-- Judge Gerald Tjoflat, 16 Oct 2004

James (and others),
This discussion has gotten my curiosity up. I have never systematically explored step mode or done much (if anything) with it, though perhaps years ago, I may have played with it a litte bit.

For the fun of it I did some systematic playing around. You probably know this, but I thought as long as I took the time, I may as well share what I learned. Perhaps this will interest others and perhaps others will add to the understanding of how step mode works and can be used. Also, please correct me if I have it wrong. (For this, I used a usb/midi keyboard connected to a P2500, using >>only<< midi in. I would be interested to know if using the Command Station keys and knobs perform differently.) 

Auto = Y
1. After entering step mode, you can press/hold down as many notes as you want.
2. After >>>all<<< notes [keypresses] have been released:
---(a) only the first instance of the first note played [keypress] (including its velocity) will have been recorded into the sequencer;
---(b) the duration of the first note played/recorded will be based on the Gate setting (a percentage of the resolution time); 
---(c) the sequencer time ["now" time] will advance based on the resolution you have chosen [Res];
---(d) CC values can be set for the current time for as many different CCs* as you like; and 
---(e) only the last CC value (for each CC*) will be recorded at the current time.
(*includes channel pressure and pitchbend)

Notes: I haven't fully explored Auto = N. However, in both conditions, you can simultaneously move a CC knob or slider and advance the sequencer time (manually with the encoder) and record a sequence of CCs.

atom smasher's suggestion are cool. If I were to use step mode, I think I might prefer to record CCs in real time after the stepped notes have been generated.

Anyhow, I hope this helps someone. I know I learned alot; so thanks for starting this topic.

Steve



--- In xl7@yahoogroups.com, Atom Smasher <atom@...> wrote:
>
> On Fri, 24 Dec 2010, James Ulibarri wrote:
> 
> > Ok, tried it.  A CC can change value but only on a Note On message from 
> > the CS. Mixed results.
> ================
> 
> pattern edit -> event list editor -> continuous controller edit
> 
> that might not be what you're looking for, but it might do what you want.
> 
> you can also record CCs into an arbitrary track, thin the data if needed, 
> copy/merge to another track if needed...
> 
> 
> -- 
>          ...atom
> 
>   ________________________
>   http://atom.smasher.org/
>   762A 3B98 A3C3 96C9 C6B7 582A B88D 52E4 D9F5 7808
>   -------------------------------------------------
> 
>  	"We cannot simply suspend or restrict civil liberties until
>  	 the War of Terror is over, because the War on Terror is
>  	 unlikely ever to be truly over... September 11, 2001,
>  	 already a day of immeasurable tragedy, cannot be the day
>  	 liberty perished in this country."
>  		-- Judge Gerald Tjoflat, 16 Oct 2004
>

Yes you can only grid record one note at a time BUT once you've got your first note laid out, you can change the note value on the screen and dial in whatever velocity you want manually, and just keep adding on the same track. So yes you can grid record chords just one note at a time. This is awesome for experimenting and you can come up with some insane robotic grooves that you simply can't play in real time. 

Hope this makes sense.

--- In xl7@yahoogroups.com, James Ulibarri <jamesulibarri@...> wrote:
>
> Steve,
> 
> Great information!
> 
> Grid Mode won't allow a person to do a chord right?  It's basically for
> drums.
> Am I correct or is it something I am doing wrong?  It only picks up one note
> for me at a time.
> 
> 
> 
> On Sat, Dec 25, 2010 at 9:56 AM, steve_the_composer <smw-mail@...>wrote:
> 
> >
> >
> > James (and others),
> > This discussion has gotten my curiosity up. I have never systematically
> > explored step mode or done much (if anything) with it, though perhaps years
> > ago, I may have played with it a litte bit.
> >
> > For the fun of it I did some systematic playing around. You probably know
> > this, but I thought as long as I took the time, I may as well share what I
> > learned. Perhaps this will interest others and perhaps others will add to
> > the understanding of how step mode works and can be used. Also, please
> > correct me if I have it wrong. (For this, I used a usb/midi keyboard
> > connected to a P2500, using >>only<< midi in. I would be interested to know
> > if using the Command Station keys and knobs perform differently.)
> >
> > Auto = Y
> > 1. After entering step mode, you can press/hold down as many notes as you
> > want.
> > 2. After >>>all<<< notes [keypresses] have been released:
> > ---(a) only the first instance of the first note played [keypress]
> > (including its velocity) will have been recorded into the sequencer;
> > ---(b) the duration of the first note played/recorded will be based on the
> > Gate setting (a percentage of the resolution time);
> > ---(c) the sequencer time ["now" time] will advance based on the resolution
> > you have chosen [Res];
> > ---(d) CC values can be set for the current time for as many different CCs*
> > as you like; and
> > ---(e) only the last CC value (for each CC*) will be recorded at the
> > current time.
> > (*includes channel pressure and pitchbend)
> >
> > Notes: I haven't fully explored Auto = N. However, in both conditions, you
> > can simultaneously move a CC knob or slider and advance the sequencer time
> > (manually with the encoder) and record a sequence of CCs.
> >
> > atom smasher's suggestion are cool. If I were to use step mode, I think I
> > might prefer to record CCs in real time after the stepped notes have been
> > generated.
> >
> > Anyhow, I hope this helps someone. I know I learned alot; so thanks for
> > starting this topic.
> >
> > Steve
> >
> >
> > --- In xl7@yahoogroups.com <xl7%40yahoogroups.com>, Atom Smasher <atom@>
> > wrote:
> > >
> > > On Fri, 24 Dec 2010, James Ulibarri wrote:
> > >
> > > > Ok, tried it. A CC can change value but only on a Note On message from
> > > > the CS. Mixed results.
> > > ================
> > >
> > > pattern edit -> event list editor -> continuous controller edit
> > >
> > > that might not be what you're looking for, but it might do what you want.
> > >
> > > you can also record CCs into an arbitrary track, thin the data if needed,
> >
> > > copy/merge to another track if needed...
> > >
> > >
> > > --
> > > ...atom
> > >
> > > ________________________
> > > http://atom.smasher.org/
> > > 762A 3B98 A3C3 96C9 C6B7 582A B88D 52E4 D9F5 7808
> > > -------------------------------------------------
> > >
> > > "We cannot simply suspend or restrict civil liberties until
> > > the War of Terror is over, because the War on Terror is
> > > unlikely ever to be truly over... September 11, 2001,
> > > already a day of immeasurable tragedy, cannot be the day
> > > liberty perished in this country."
> > > -- Judge Gerald Tjoflat, 16 Oct 2004
> > >
> >
> >  
> >
>

Thanks James this is an awesome topic, steve and atom thanks for the great info!

Good to hear from you on this, Aaron. I never did much of anything with step mode before, but a few weeks ago when the question was raised I explored it a little. Could you take a look at what I wrote up, let me know if I have it right, if there's anything to add, etc.?  Obviously, I missed the part about pressing play to advance to the next step. Thanks.

--Steve

http://launch.groups.yahoo.com/group/xl7/message/21070



--- In xl7@yahoogroups.com, Aaron Eppolito <synthesis77@...> wrote:
>
> Yep, absolutely.  While in Step Mode, you can tweak as many controllers as you 
> want each step.  To advance to the next step (without entering a note) simply 
> hit the Play button.  The workflow goes like this:
> 
> 1 - while stopped, hit Rec 3 times to go into Step Mode
> 2 - verify your step duration to be what you want
> 3 - set each parameter that you want recorded, (i.e. if at 1.1.000, you wanted 
> Fc at 64 and Q at 20, put both those knobs in those positions)
> 4 - hit Play to go to the next step (note that you can hit play multiple times 
> to skip steps and/or use the encoder to go to an explicit bar/beat)
> 5 - repeat steps 3&4 as desired.
> 
> This does not erase any other controller or note data, so you can use it either 
> before or after other recording modes.
> 
> -Aaron
> 
> PS.  if you meant stepping the controllers in *Grid* mode, we wanted to do that. 
>  We were going to make it such that if you turned the note field all the way 
> counterclockwise (i.e. below A-2) you'd get into cc# and each knob would 
> correspond to that controller's value at that step.  Actually, maybe I even 
> remember coding that up.  I don't have my XL-7 handy - someone want to make sure 
> it doesn't actually have that feature?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ________________________________
> From: James Ulibarri <jamesulibarri@...>
> To: xl7@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Mon, December 20, 2010 1:37:41 PM
> Subject: [xl7] CC's step sequencer
> 
>   
> 
> Is there a way to use the Step Sequencer and assign a CC to a parameter to a 
> midi device on the midi 
> 
> chain and step in CC modulation changes?  I know how to do this in Real Time 
> mode, but not step time mode. 
> 
> And that's normally with note on and note off by triggering pads.  
> 
> Does anyone know what I am saying?   Step Time modulation to something that 
> accepts values of 0-127.
> Obviously I will be assigning one of the knobs to the parameter that I want. 
> 
> Sorry, my replacement PX-7 won't be here till next week.
>

Another great topic.

Anybody have experience with a Korg MS2000R or Radias? (Or any synth with a 16 step sequencer?)

Normally you can use the 16 knobs to control pitch for each step. Is there a way to do this on the XL7? It would be amazing because the 4x4 knob structure is perfect for this. Anyone?

On the MS2000R you get 3 "lanes" for assignable parameters. First lane defaults to Pitch, second one I usually assign to Filter Cutoff, and third for whatever else.

I guess Filter Cutoff can be real-time step sequenced on the XL7 by using Vel->Filter Cutoff.

But I'm not sure how I can use the knobs to directly sequence Pitch in real-time, without stopping the sequencer, like on the MS2000R. 

Possible?


--- In xl7@yahoogroups.com, "steve_the_composer" <smw-mail@...> wrote:
>
> Good to hear from you on this, Aaron. I never did much of anything with step mode before, but a few weeks ago when the question was raised I explored it a little. Could you take a look at what I wrote up, let me know if I have it right, if there's anything to add, etc.?  Obviously, I missed the part about pressing play to advance to the next step. Thanks.
> 
> --Steve
> 
> http://launch.groups.yahoo.com/group/xl7/message/21070
> 
> 
> 
> --- In xl7@yahoogroups.com, Aaron Eppolito <synthesis77@> wrote:
> >
> > Yep, absolutely.  While in Step Mode, you can tweak as many controllers as you 
> > want each step.  To advance to the next step (without entering a note) simply 
> > hit the Play button.  The workflow goes like this:
> > 
> > 1 - while stopped, hit Rec 3 times to go into Step Mode
> > 2 - verify your step duration to be what you want
> > 3 - set each parameter that you want recorded, (i.e. if at 1.1.000, you wanted 
> > Fc at 64 and Q at 20, put both those knobs in those positions)
> > 4 - hit Play to go to the next step (note that you can hit play multiple times 
> > to skip steps and/or use the encoder to go to an explicit bar/beat)
> > 5 - repeat steps 3&4 as desired.
> > 
> > This does not erase any other controller or note data, so you can use it either 
> > before or after other recording modes.
> > 
> > -Aaron
> > 
> > PS.  if you meant stepping the controllers in *Grid* mode, we wanted to do that. 
> >  We were going to make it such that if you turned the note field all the way 
> > counterclockwise (i.e. below A-2) you'd get into cc# and each knob would 
> > correspond to that controller's value at that step.  Actually, maybe I even 
> > remember coding that up.  I don't have my XL-7 handy - someone want to make sure 
> > it doesn't actually have that feature?
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > ________________________________
> > From: James Ulibarri <jamesulibarri@>
> > To: xl7@yahoogroups.com
> > Sent: Mon, December 20, 2010 1:37:41 PM
> > Subject: [xl7] CC's step sequencer
> > 
> >   
> > 
> > Is there a way to use the Step Sequencer and assign a CC to a parameter to a 
> > midi device on the midi 
> > 
> > chain and step in CC modulation changes?  I know how to do this in Real Time 
> > mode, but not step time mode. 
> > 
> > And that's normally with note on and note off by triggering pads.  
> > 
> > Does anyone know what I am saying?   Step Time modulation to something that 
> > accepts values of 0-127.
> > Obviously I will be assigning one of the knobs to the parameter that I want. 
> > 
> > Sorry, my replacement PX-7 won't be here till next week.
> >
>

Never mind... figured it out...

Routed Vel->Pitch and Gate->Filter Cutoff.

Charming.

--- In xl7@yahoogroups.com, "bonzai2050" <bonzai2050@...> wrote:
>
> Another great topic.
> 
> Anybody have experience with a Korg MS2000R or Radias? (Or any synth with a 16 step sequencer?)
> 
> Normally you can use the 16 knobs to control pitch for each step. Is there a way to do this on the XL7? It would be amazing because the 4x4 knob structure is perfect for this. Anyone?
> 
> On the MS2000R you get 3 "lanes" for assignable parameters. First lane defaults to Pitch, second one I usually assign to Filter Cutoff, and third for whatever else.
> 
> I guess Filter Cutoff can be real-time step sequenced on the XL7 by using Vel->Filter Cutoff.
> 
> But I'm not sure how I can use the knobs to directly sequence Pitch in real-time, without stopping the sequencer, like on the MS2000R. 
> 
> Possible?
> 
> 
> --- In xl7@yahoogroups.com, "steve_the_composer" <smw-mail@> wrote:
> >
> > Good to hear from you on this, Aaron. I never did much of anything with step mode before, but a few weeks ago when the question was raised I explored it a little. Could you take a look at what I wrote up, let me know if I have it right, if there's anything to add, etc.?  Obviously, I missed the part about pressing play to advance to the next step. Thanks.
> > 
> > --Steve
> > 
> > http://launch.groups.yahoo.com/group/xl7/message/21070
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > --- In xl7@yahoogroups.com, Aaron Eppolito <synthesis77@> wrote:
> > >
> > > Yep, absolutely.  While in Step Mode, you can tweak as many controllers as you 
> > > want each step.  To advance to the next step (without entering a note) simply 
> > > hit the Play button.  The workflow goes like this:
> > > 
> > > 1 - while stopped, hit Rec 3 times to go into Step Mode
> > > 2 - verify your step duration to be what you want
> > > 3 - set each parameter that you want recorded, (i.e. if at 1.1.000, you wanted 
> > > Fc at 64 and Q at 20, put both those knobs in those positions)
> > > 4 - hit Play to go to the next step (note that you can hit play multiple times 
> > > to skip steps and/or use the encoder to go to an explicit bar/beat)
> > > 5 - repeat steps 3&4 as desired.
> > > 
> > > This does not erase any other controller or note data, so you can use it either 
> > > before or after other recording modes.
> > > 
> > > -Aaron
> > > 
> > > PS.  if you meant stepping the controllers in *Grid* mode, we wanted to do that. 
> > >  We were going to make it such that if you turned the note field all the way 
> > > counterclockwise (i.e. below A-2) you'd get into cc# and each knob would 
> > > correspond to that controller's value at that step.  Actually, maybe I even 
> > > remember coding that up.  I don't have my XL-7 handy - someone want to make sure 
> > > it doesn't actually have that feature?
> > > 
> > > 
> > > 
> > > 
> > > ________________________________
> > > From: James Ulibarri <jamesulibarri@>
> > > To: xl7@yahoogroups.com
> > > Sent: Mon, December 20, 2010 1:37:41 PM
> > > Subject: [xl7] CC's step sequencer
> > > 
> > >   
> > > 
> > > Is there a way to use the Step Sequencer and assign a CC to a parameter to a 
> > > midi device on the midi 
> > > 
> > > chain and step in CC modulation changes?  I know how to do this in Real Time 
> > > mode, but not step time mode. 
> > > 
> > > And that's normally with note on and note off by triggering pads.  
> > > 
> > > Does anyone know what I am saying?   Step Time modulation to something that 
> > > accepts values of 0-127.
> > > Obviously I will be assigning one of the knobs to the parameter that I want. 
> > > 
> > > Sorry, my replacement PX-7 won't be here till next week.
> > >
> >
>

Awesome I'm going to try this

It certainly works...

But I guess the 4x4 knob layout takes some getting used to.

Also... although you can assign Gate to control whatever you want, it still seems to control the Gate as well. That's a bit of a bummer.

Velocity works perfectly though after you disable the Vel->Amp patch.

(and use Vel+- -> Pitch/Tune)


--- In xl7@yahoogroups.com, Matt <somatt@...> wrote:
>
> Awesome I'm going to try this
> On Jun 9, 2012 5:55 PM, "bonzai2050" <bonzai2050@...> wrote:
> 
> > **
> >
> >
> > Never mind... figured it out...
> >
> > Routed Vel->Pitch and Gate->Filter Cutoff.
> >
> > Charming.
> >
> > --- In xl7@yahoogroups.com, "bonzai2050" <bonzai2050@> wrote:
> > >
> > > Another great topic.
> > >
> > > Anybody have experience with a Korg MS2000R or Radias? (Or any synth
> > with a 16 step sequencer?)
> > >
> > > Normally you can use the 16 knobs to control pitch for each step. Is
> > there a way to do this on the XL7? It would be amazing because the 4x4 knob
> > structure is perfect for this. Anyone?
> > >
> > > On the MS2000R you get 3 "lanes" for assignable parameters. First lane
> > defaults to Pitch, second one I usually assign to Filter Cutoff, and third
> > for whatever else.
> > >
> > > I guess Filter Cutoff can be real-time step sequenced on the XL7 by
> > using Vel->Filter Cutoff.
> > >
> > > But I'm not sure how I can use the knobs to directly sequence Pitch in
> > real-time, without stopping the sequencer, like on the MS2000R.
> > >
> > > Possible?
> > >
> > >
> > > --- In xl7@yahoogroups.com, "steve_the_composer" <smw-mail@> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > Good to hear from you on this, Aaron. I never did much of anything
> > with step mode before, but a few weeks ago when the question was raised I
> > explored it a little. Could you take a look at what I wrote up, let me know
> > if I have it right, if there's anything to add, etc.? Obviously, I missed
> > the part about pressing play to advance to the next step. Thanks.
> > > >
> > > > --Steve
> > > >
> > > > http://launch.groups.yahoo.com/group/xl7/message/21070
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > --- In xl7@yahoogroups.com, Aaron Eppolito <synthesis77@> wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > Yep, absolutely. While in Step Mode, you can tweak as many
> > controllers as you
> > > > > want each step. To advance to the next step (without entering a
> > note) simply
> > > > > hit the Play button. The workflow goes like this:
> > > > >
> > > > > 1 - while stopped, hit Rec 3 times to go into Step Mode
> > > > > 2 - verify your step duration to be what you want
> > > > > 3 - set each parameter that you want recorded, (i.e. if at 1.1.000,
> > you wanted
> > > > > Fc at 64 and Q at 20, put both those knobs in those positions)
> > > > > 4 - hit Play to go to the next step (note that you can hit play
> > multiple times
> > > > > to skip steps and/or use the encoder to go to an explicit bar/beat)
> > > > > 5 - repeat steps 3&4 as desired.
> > > > >
> > > > > This does not erase any other controller or note data, so you can
> > use it either
> > > > > before or after other recording modes.
> > > > >
> > > > > -Aaron
> > > > >
> > > > > PS. if you meant stepping the controllers in *Grid* mode, we wanted
> > to do that.
> > > > > We were going to make it such that if you turned the note field all
> > the way
> > > > > counterclockwise (i.e. below A-2) you'd get into cc# and each knob
> > would
> > > > > correspond to that controller's value at that step. Actually, maybe
> > I even
> > > > > remember coding that up. I don't have my XL-7 handy - someone want
> > to make sure
> > > > > it doesn't actually have that feature?
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > ________________________________
> > > > > From: James Ulibarri <jamesulibarri@>
> > > > > To: xl7@yahoogroups.com
> > > > > Sent: Mon, December 20, 2010 1:37:41 PM
> > > > > Subject: [xl7] CC's step sequencer
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Is there a way to use the Step Sequencer and assign a CC to a
> > parameter to a
> > > > > midi device on the midi
> > > > >
> > > > > chain and step in CC modulation changes? I know how to do this in
> > Real Time
> > > > > mode, but not step time mode.
> > > > >
> > > > > And that's normally with note on and note off by triggering pads.
> > > > >
> > > > > Does anyone know what I am saying? Step Time modulation to something
> > that
> > > > > accepts values of 0-127.
> > > > > Obviously I will be assigning one of the knobs to the parameter that
> > I want.
> > > > >
> > > > > Sorry, my replacement PX-7 won't be here till next week.
> > > > >
> > > >
> > >
> >
> >  
> >
>

Just from top of my head:

2012/6/10 bonzai2050 <bonzai2050@...>:
> Also... although you can assign Gate to control whatever you want, it still seems to control the Gate as well. That's a bit of a bummer.

Have you tried searching for a patchcord that binds those to
disconnect it exactly in the same way as below:

> Velocity works perfectly though after you disable the Vel->Amp patch.

The whole thread seems interesting. I have AN1x which features a real
step sequencer, but hadn't time yet to dig it.

Bruno

Well I just gave it another shot. This time building the entire patch from scratch with only the most necessary patchcords.

Gate wasn't routed to anything, almost everything was 'off'. Still it was controlling the Gate. 

They are just 16th notes btw. Unless I'm doing something wrong or missing something, it seems that you can't stop Gate from controlling Gate.


--- In xl7@yahoogroups.com, Bruno <brunorc@...> wrote:
>
> Just from top of my head:
> 
> 2012/6/10 bonzai2050 <bonzai2050@...>:
> > Also... although you can assign Gate to control whatever you want, it still seems to control the Gate as well. That's a bit of a bummer.
> 
> Have you tried searching for a patchcord that binds those to
> disconnect it exactly in the same way as below:
> 
> > Velocity works perfectly though after you disable the Vel->Amp patch.
> 
> The whole thread seems interesting. I have AN1x which features a real
> step sequencer, but hadn't time yet to dig it.
> 
> Bruno
>

This is an interesting thread, but I am confused when you say that gate controlling gate is a bummer.  What are you trying to do or not do?

It almost seems like you are saying that when a note is triggered, you don't want it to make a sound, but this doesn't make sense to me.

Thanks.

Steve

--- In xl7@yahoogroups.com, "bonzai2050" <bonzai2050@...> wrote:
>
> Well I just gave it another shot. This time building the entire patch from scratch with only the most necessary patchcords.
> 
> Gate wasn't routed to anything, almost everything was 'off'. Still it was controlling the Gate. 
> 
> They are just 16th notes btw. Unless I'm doing something wrong or missing something, it seems that you can't stop Gate from controlling Gate.
> 
> 
> --- In xl7@yahoogroups.com, Bruno <brunorc@> wrote:
> >
> > Just from top of my head:
> > 
> > 2012/6/10 bonzai2050 <bonzai2050@>:
> > > Also... although you can assign Gate to control whatever you want, it still seems to control the Gate as well. That's a bit of a bummer.
> > 
> > Have you tried searching for a patchcord that binds those to
> > disconnect it exactly in the same way as below:
> > 
> > > Velocity works perfectly though after you disable the Vel->Amp patch.
> > 
> > The whole thread seems interesting. I have AN1x which features a real
> > step sequencer, but hadn't time yet to dig it.
> > 
> > Bruno
> >
>

I deleted my last two posts for brevity.

The issue is, the only two parameters you can use to record a 16 knob sequence in Grid mode are Vel and Gate. 

That's why I wanted to repatch Gate to something else, which can't be done, because as you said, if Gate is somehow unpatched, there will be no sound.

This would not matter if all CC's were sequencable in Grid mode. But, they aren't, you can only record real-time twiddles. 

Korg MS2000 has three 'lanes' to for 16 step sequencing which can be patched to a variety of different CCs. Many other synths have this, and I thought "Anything with 16 sequential knobs surely does this"

I don't want to have to drop $1000 on a Cirklon, or build a MIDIBox Seq v4 without any electronics experience.

I figured if there are 16 knobs on this baby then surely you must be able to sequence any CC.

But I only have Velocity and Gate to sequence with the 16 knobs in Grid mode. Thats the bummer. :)


--- In xl7@yahoogroups.com, "steve_the_composer" <smw-mail@...> wrote:
>
> This is an interesting thread, but I am confused when you say that gate controlling gate is a bummer.  What are you trying to do or not do?
> 
> It almost seems like you are saying that when a note is triggered, you don't want it to make a sound, but this doesn't make sense to me.
> 
> Thanks.
> 
> Steve
> 
> --- In xl7@yahoogroups.com, "bonzai2050" <bonzai2050@> wrote:
> >
> > Well I just gave it another shot. This time building the entire patch from scratch with only the most necessary patchcords.
> > 
> > Gate wasn't routed to anything, almost everything was 'off'. Still it was controlling the Gate. 
> > 
> > They are just 16th notes btw. Unless I'm doing something wrong or missing something, it seems that you can't stop Gate from controlling Gate.
> > 
> > 
> > --- In xl7@yahoogroups.com, Bruno <brunorc@> wrote:
> > >
> > > Just from top of my head:
> > > 
> > > 2012/6/10 bonzai2050 <bonzai2050@>:
> > > > Also... although you can assign Gate to control whatever you want, it still seems to control the Gate as well. That's a bit of a bummer.
> > > 
> > > Have you tried searching for a patchcord that binds those to
> > > disconnect it exactly in the same way as below:
> > > 
> > > > Velocity works perfectly though after you disable the Vel->Amp patch.
> > > 
> > > The whole thread seems interesting. I have AN1x which features a real
> > > step sequencer, but hadn't time yet to dig it.
> > > 
> > > Bruno
> > >
> >
>

What I'm saying is that you should be able to sequence things like Pitch, Cutoff, and basically everything, the same way you sequence Vel and Gate in Grid Mode, using the knobs and the same display.

I thought thats what 16 step sequencing was all about. There are 16 knobs here ready to send numbers to parameters.

Velocity is the only parameter which can be totally isolated and routed to something else, for exmaple Pitch. Sure you can route lots of Velocity copies, but thats just the same sequence.

If you could pick things like Filter Cutoff instead of just Velocity and Gate it would have been a real 16 step sequencer for many if not all tweakable parameters.

This is different from just recording yourself turning the Cutoff knob. That is cool I like that too, but actual control of the value of each step, while the sequencer is running in grid mode, without going into step mode, would have been pretty super and I imagine wouldn't have taken much effort program... since it already exists for Velocity and Gate.

Anyway, just some food for thought there. 

--- In xl7@yahoogroups.com, "bonzai2050" <bonzai2050@...> wrote:
>
> I deleted my last two posts for brevity.
> 
> The issue is, the only two parameters you can use to record a 16 knob sequence in Grid mode are Vel and Gate. 
> 
> That's why I wanted to repatch Gate to something else, which can't be done, because as you said, if Gate is somehow unpatched, there will be no sound.
> 
> This would not matter if all CC's were sequencable in Grid mode. But, they aren't, you can only record real-time twiddles. 
> 
> Korg MS2000 has three 'lanes' to for 16 step sequencing which can be patched to a variety of different CCs. Many other synths have this, and I thought "Anything with 16 sequential knobs surely does this"
> 
> I don't want to have to drop $1000 on a Cirklon, or build a MIDIBox Seq v4 without any electronics experience.
> 
> I figured if there are 16 knobs on this baby then surely you must be able to sequence any CC.
> 
> But I only have Velocity and Gate to sequence with the 16 knobs in Grid mode. Thats the bummer. :)
> 
> 
> --- In xl7@yahoogroups.com, "steve_the_composer" <smw-mail@> wrote:
> >
> > This is an interesting thread, but I am confused when you say that gate controlling gate is a bummer.  What are you trying to do or not do?
> > 
> > It almost seems like you are saying that when a note is triggered, you don't want it to make a sound, but this doesn't make sense to me.
> > 
> > Thanks.
> > 
> > Steve
> > 
> > --- In xl7@yahoogroups.com, "bonzai2050" <bonzai2050@> wrote:
> > >
> > > Well I just gave it another shot. This time building the entire patch from scratch with only the most necessary patchcords.
> > > 
> > > Gate wasn't routed to anything, almost everything was 'off'. Still it was controlling the Gate. 
> > > 
> > > They are just 16th notes btw. Unless I'm doing something wrong or missing something, it seems that you can't stop Gate from controlling Gate.
> > > 
> > > 
> > > --- In xl7@yahoogroups.com, Bruno <brunorc@> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > Just from top of my head:
> > > > 
> > > > 2012/6/10 bonzai2050 <bonzai2050@>:
> > > > > Also... although you can assign Gate to control whatever you want, it still seems to control the Gate as well. That's a bit of a bummer.
> > > > 
> > > > Have you tried searching for a patchcord that binds those to
> > > > disconnect it exactly in the same way as below:
> > > > 
> > > > > Velocity works perfectly though after you disable the Vel->Amp patch.
> > > > 
> > > > The whole thread seems interesting. I have AN1x which features a real
> > > > step sequencer, but hadn't time yet to dig it.
> > > > 
> > > > Bruno
> > > >
> > >
> >
>

Thanks for the reply.  I am starting to understand, but need to read it when I am not distracted.  

The last time I tried to sort out step sequencing (again, in response to questions someone had), I thought for sure I was able to insert any number of CCs, but there were limits--perhaps only 1 value per CC at any given tick, or something like that, there was no auto advance, and that only the last CC value would be recorded.

I am not sure if this relates to what you are doing (or want to do), but I will try to find the thread on this.

Out of curiosity, do you have a programmable midi controller? That would give you more than the 16 CCs which the E-Mu has. Also, you might want to see if you can use not only the quick edit CCs, but the programmable CCs. I am not sure if that would give you up to 32 CCs without testing it, but you might want to try.

Steve 

--- In xl7@yahoogroups.com, "bonzai2050" <bonzai2050@...> wrote:
>
> What I'm saying is that you should be able to sequence things like Pitch, Cutoff, and basically everything, the same way you sequence Vel and Gate in Grid Mode, using the knobs and the same display.
> 
> I thought thats what 16 step sequencing was all about. There are 16 knobs here ready to send numbers to parameters.
> 
> Velocity is the only parameter which can be totally isolated and routed to something else, for exmaple Pitch. Sure you can route lots of Velocity copies, but thats just the same sequence.
> 
> If you could pick things like Filter Cutoff instead of just Velocity and Gate it would have been a real 16 step sequencer for many if not all tweakable parameters.
> 
> This is different from just recording yourself turning the Cutoff knob. That is cool I like that too, but actual control of the value of each step, while the sequencer is running in grid mode, without going into step mode, would have been pretty super and I imagine wouldn't have taken much effort program... since it already exists for Velocity and Gate.
> 
> Anyway, just some food for thought there. 
> 
> --- In xl7@yahoogroups.com, "bonzai2050" <bonzai2050@> wrote:
> >
> > I deleted my last two posts for brevity.
> > 
> > The issue is, the only two parameters you can use to record a 16 knob sequence in Grid mode are Vel and Gate. 
> > 
> > That's why I wanted to repatch Gate to something else, which can't be done, because as you said, if Gate is somehow unpatched, there will be no sound.
> > 
> > This would not matter if all CC's were sequencable in Grid mode. But, they aren't, you can only record real-time twiddles. 
> > 
> > Korg MS2000 has three 'lanes' to for 16 step sequencing which can be patched to a variety of different CCs. Many other synths have this, and I thought "Anything with 16 sequential knobs surely does this"
> > 
> > I don't want to have to drop $1000 on a Cirklon, or build a MIDIBox Seq v4 without any electronics experience.
> > 
> > I figured if there are 16 knobs on this baby then surely you must be able to sequence any CC.
> > 
> > But I only have Velocity and Gate to sequence with the 16 knobs in Grid mode. Thats the bummer. :)
> > 
> > 
> > --- In xl7@yahoogroups.com, "steve_the_composer" <smw-mail@> wrote:
> > >
> > > This is an interesting thread, but I am confused when you say that gate controlling gate is a bummer.  What are you trying to do or not do?
> > > 
> > > It almost seems like you are saying that when a note is triggered, you don't want it to make a sound, but this doesn't make sense to me.
> > > 
> > > Thanks.
> > > 
> > > Steve
> > > 
> > > --- In xl7@yahoogroups.com, "bonzai2050" <bonzai2050@> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > Well I just gave it another shot. This time building the entire patch from scratch with only the most necessary patchcords.
> > > > 
> > > > Gate wasn't routed to anything, almost everything was 'off'. Still it was controlling the Gate. 
> > > > 
> > > > They are just 16th notes btw. Unless I'm doing something wrong or missing something, it seems that you can't stop Gate from controlling Gate.
> > > > 
> > > > 
> > > > --- In xl7@yahoogroups.com, Bruno <brunorc@> wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > Just from top of my head:
> > > > > 
> > > > > 2012/6/10 bonzai2050 <bonzai2050@>:
> > > > > > Also... although you can assign Gate to control whatever you want, it still seems to control the Gate as well. That's a bit of a bummer.
> > > > > 
> > > > > Have you tried searching for a patchcord that binds those to
> > > > > disconnect it exactly in the same way as below:
> > > > > 
> > > > > > Velocity works perfectly though after you disable the Vel->Amp patch.
> > > > > 
> > > > > The whole thread seems interesting. I have AN1x which features a real
> > > > > step sequencer, but hadn't time yet to dig it.
> > > > > 
> > > > > Bruno
> > > > >
> > > >
> > >
> >
>

Here's what I was thinking of:  http://launch.groups.yahoo.com/group/xl7/message/21070 That's not what you are talking about, though. I was dissecting step mode; you are talking about grid mode. Sorry.

I played a bit with grid mode and I see now what you are saying: In grid mode, the knobs place >>note events<< on the grid with a velocity or gate corresponding to the position of the knob for a specific note on a specific track.

In grid mode, you cannot record CCs. To do that you need to switch to realtime record and once you do that you cannot switch back into grid record mode without stopping the sequencer.

While you can go back into grid mode to hear the result, as you pointed out, you only have control over note and velocity in grid mode record. The 16 knobs can only switch between Gate (0% to 100%) Velocity.

Thanks for the explanation. I haad fun exploring an aspect of the E-Mu sequence I never use. Maybe I will explore on-the-fly multi-track grid mode pattern performance after all. 

I look forward to reading more from what others how they use grid mode. I'd be especially interested in live performance ideas for improvisation.


Steve





  

--- In xl7@yahoogroups.com, "steve_the_composer" <smw-mail@...> wrote:
>
> Thanks for the reply.  I am starting to understand, but need to read it when I am not distracted.  
> 
> The last time I tried to sort out step sequencing (again, in response to questions someone had), I thought for sure I was able to insert any number of CCs, but there were limits--perhaps only 1 value per CC at any given tick, or something like that, there was no auto advance, and that only the last CC value would be recorded.
> 
> I am not sure if this relates to what you are doing (or want to do), but I will try to find the thread on this.
> 
> Out of curiosity, do you have a programmable midi controller? That would give you more than the 16 CCs which the E-Mu has. Also, you might want to see if you can use not only the quick edit CCs, but the programmable CCs. I am not sure if that would give you up to 32 CCs without testing it, but you might want to try.
> 
> Steve 
> 
> --- In xl7@yahoogroups.com, "bonzai2050" <bonzai2050@> wrote:
> >
> > What I'm saying is that you should be able to sequence things like Pitch, Cutoff, and basically everything, the same way you sequence Vel and Gate in Grid Mode, using the knobs and the same display.
> > 
> > I thought thats what 16 step sequencing was all about. There are 16 knobs here ready to send numbers to parameters.
> > 
> > Velocity is the only parameter which can be totally isolated and routed to something else, for exmaple Pitch. Sure you can route lots of Velocity copies, but thats just the same sequence.
> > 
> > If you could pick things like Filter Cutoff instead of just Velocity and Gate it would have been a real 16 step sequencer for many if not all tweakable parameters.
> > 
> > This is different from just recording yourself turning the Cutoff knob. That is cool I like that too, but actual control of the value of each step, while the sequencer is running in grid mode, without going into step mode, would have been pretty super and I imagine wouldn't have taken much effort program... since it already exists for Velocity and Gate.
> > 
> > Anyway, just some food for thought there. 
> > 
> > --- In xl7@yahoogroups.com, "bonzai2050" <bonzai2050@> wrote:
> > >
> > > I deleted my last two posts for brevity.
> > > 
> > > The issue is, the only two parameters you can use to record a 16 knob sequence in Grid mode are Vel and Gate. 
> > > 
> > > That's why I wanted to repatch Gate to something else, which can't be done, because as you said, if Gate is somehow unpatched, there will be no sound.
> > > 
> > > This would not matter if all CC's were sequencable in Grid mode. But, they aren't, you can only record real-time twiddles. 
> > > 
> > > Korg MS2000 has three 'lanes' to for 16 step sequencing which can be patched to a variety of different CCs. Many other synths have this, and I thought "Anything with 16 sequential knobs surely does this"
> > > 
> > > I don't want to have to drop $1000 on a Cirklon, or build a MIDIBox Seq v4 without any electronics experience.
> > > 
> > > I figured if there are 16 knobs on this baby then surely you must be able to sequence any CC.
> > > 
> > > But I only have Velocity and Gate to sequence with the 16 knobs in Grid mode. Thats the bummer. :)
> > > 
> > > 
> > > --- In xl7@yahoogroups.com, "steve_the_composer" <smw-mail@> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > This is an interesting thread, but I am confused when you say that gate controlling gate is a bummer.  What are you trying to do or not do?
> > > > 
> > > > It almost seems like you are saying that when a note is triggered, you don't want it to make a sound, but this doesn't make sense to me.
> > > > 
> > > > Thanks.
> > > > 
> > > > Steve
> > > > 
> > > > --- In xl7@yahoogroups.com, "bonzai2050" <bonzai2050@> wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > Well I just gave it another shot. This time building the entire patch from scratch with only the most necessary patchcords.
> > > > > 
> > > > > Gate wasn't routed to anything, almost everything was 'off'. Still it was controlling the Gate. 
> > > > > 
> > > > > They are just 16th notes btw. Unless I'm doing something wrong or missing something, it seems that you can't stop Gate from controlling Gate.
> > > > > 
> > > > > 
> > > > > --- In xl7@yahoogroups.com, Bruno <brunorc@> wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Just from top of my head:
> > > > > > 
> > > > > > 2012/6/10 bonzai2050 <bonzai2050@>:
> > > > > > > Also... although you can assign Gate to control whatever you want, it still seems to control the Gate as well. That's a bit of a bummer.
> > > > > > 
> > > > > > Have you tried searching for a patchcord that binds those to
> > > > > > disconnect it exactly in the same way as below:
> > > > > > 
> > > > > > > Velocity works perfectly though after you disable the Vel->Amp patch.
> > > > > > 
> > > > > > The whole thread seems interesting. I have AN1x which features a real
> > > > > > step sequencer, but hadn't time yet to dig it.
> > > > > > 
> > > > > > Bruno
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > >
> >
>

I am just wondering if you have played around with indirect patchcords, say for example where #24 sends Lfo2+ [or any other control source] to FilterFrequency [or any other destination] with a zero amount and #23 uses Gate (for example) routed to C24Amt.

BTW, unlss I am mistaken, key can also be isolated. To test, turn nontranspose on and route Key+ of your grid recording to pitch [or any other destination].

Hmmmmm. Since each layer has its own key and velocity range settings, I am wondering if that might be useful in grid mode. Perhaaps one octave cane be set up for filter frequency [cutoff] and another can be set up for filter resonance.

Yes, I know these are not the features you are wishing the E-Mu sequencer had, but as long as I am exploring, I thought I'd share what I am discovering.  (Maybe you know all this already, but its new to me.)

Man, this is cool stuff!!!! Thanks for bringing it the topic.

Steve  


--- In xl7@yahoogroups.com, "bonzai2050" <bonzai2050@...> wrote:
>
> What I'm saying is that you should be able to sequence things like Pitch, Cutoff, and basically everything, the same way you sequence Vel and Gate in Grid Mode, using the knobs and the same display.
> 
> I thought thats what 16 step sequencing was all about. There are 16 knobs here ready to send numbers to parameters.
> 
> Velocity is the only parameter which can be totally isolated and routed to something else, for exmaple Pitch. Sure you can route lots of Velocity copies, but thats just the same sequence.
> 
> If you could pick things like Filter Cutoff instead of just Velocity and Gate it would have been a real 16 step sequencer for many if not all tweakable parameters.
> 
> This is different from just recording yourself turning the Cutoff knob. That is cool I like that too, but actual control of the value of each step, while the sequencer is running in grid mode, without going into step mode, would have been pretty super and I imagine wouldn't have taken much effort program... since it already exists for Velocity and Gate.
> 
> Anyway, just some food for thought there. 
> 
> --- In xl7@yahoogroups.com, "bonzai2050" <bonzai2050@> wrote:
> >
> > I deleted my last two posts for brevity.
> > 
> > The issue is, the only two parameters you can use to record a 16 knob sequence in Grid mode are Vel and Gate. 
> > 
> > That's why I wanted to repatch Gate to something else, which can't be done, because as you said, if Gate is somehow unpatched, there will be no sound.
> > 
> > This would not matter if all CC's were sequencable in Grid mode. But, they aren't, you can only record real-time twiddles. 
> > 
> > Korg MS2000 has three 'lanes' to for 16 step sequencing which can be patched to a variety of different CCs. Many other synths have this, and I thought "Anything with 16 sequential knobs surely does this"
> > 
> > I don't want to have to drop $1000 on a Cirklon, or build a MIDIBox Seq v4 without any electronics experience.
> > 
> > I figured if there are 16 knobs on this baby then surely you must be able to sequence any CC.
> > 
> > But I only have Velocity and Gate to sequence with the 16 knobs in Grid mode. Thats the bummer. :)
> > 
> > 
> > --- In xl7@yahoogroups.com, "steve_the_composer" <smw-mail@> wrote:
> > >
> > > This is an interesting thread, but I am confused when you say that gate controlling gate is a bummer.  What are you trying to do or not do?
> > > 
> > > It almost seems like you are saying that when a note is triggered, you don't want it to make a sound, but this doesn't make sense to me.
> > > 
> > > Thanks.
> > > 
> > > Steve
> > > 
> > > --- In xl7@yahoogroups.com, "bonzai2050" <bonzai2050@> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > Well I just gave it another shot. This time building the entire patch from scratch with only the most necessary patchcords.
> > > > 
> > > > Gate wasn't routed to anything, almost everything was 'off'. Still it was controlling the Gate. 
> > > > 
> > > > They are just 16th notes btw. Unless I'm doing something wrong or missing something, it seems that you can't stop Gate from controlling Gate.
> > > > 
> > > > 
> > > > --- In xl7@yahoogroups.com, Bruno <brunorc@> wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > Just from top of my head:
> > > > > 
> > > > > 2012/6/10 bonzai2050 <bonzai2050@>:
> > > > > > Also... although you can assign Gate to control whatever you want, it still seems to control the Gate as well. That's a bit of a bummer.
> > > > > 
> > > > > Have you tried searching for a patchcord that binds those to
> > > > > disconnect it exactly in the same way as below:
> > > > > 
> > > > > > Velocity works perfectly though after you disable the Vel->Amp patch.
> > > > > 
> > > > > The whole thread seems interesting. I have AN1x which features a real
> > > > > step sequencer, but hadn't time yet to dig it.
> > > > > 
> > > > > Bruno
> > > > >
> > > >
> > >
> >
>

--- In xl7@yahoogroups.com, "steve_the_composer" <smw-mail@...> wrote:


> While you can go back into grid mode to hear the result, as you pointed out, you only have control over note and velocity in grid mode record. The 16 knobs can only switch between Gate (0% to 100%) Velocity.

Yes this basically hit the nail on the head. But to be totally clear, here is the workflow:

1) Very basic one instrument patch, with basic waveform... something that sounds good with a nice sounding filter. For example square wave with the TBornotTB filter.

2) Patch Vel+- -> Pitch and Gate->FilterFreq. 

3) Go into Grid Rec and start sequencer. Make one bar with all 16th Notes, C3 for example. Has to be same note because you'll control the Pitch using Velocity as patched earlier.

5) Now all 16 knobs are controlling the Pitch of each step. For you to write acid lines and other patterns. Make sure Vel->Amp is either zero or unpatched because you dont want it to interfere with the process just yet.

6) You can press the button above the knobs to switch to Gate and FilterCutoff, or whatever you patched to Gate.

So thats it, which is great but pretty limited. If you want to record Filter Cutoff animation or something then you have to use Realtime (dont have to stop Seq), but you can't program them individually for each step like the Pitch.

Technically there are only "Vel" and "Gate" which send "per step" values, and so we can only switch between the two for direct access to the value of each step.

There could have been "Seq 1", "Seq 2", "Seq 3", ... etc to patch to 'Pitch', 'FilterCutoff', 'Decay', 'EfxSend'.. etc etc.. and we could be using the 16 knobs to modulate any parameter on the fly without stopping anything. 

I don't know if there's a workaround. I mean its nice to at least write the Pitch modulations, but if every parameter was accessible like this it would have been seriously next-level.

Anyway if you try as I described you'll see how easy it is to program sequences using just the 16 knobs in grid mode. At the end of the day its just a very fun way of programming patterns, using both hands directly accessing steps and tweaking the parameter that it is linked to and currently displaying (exactly like Vel and Gate). The results can be very awesome and perfect for many different things.

Thanks for checking it out. :)


> 
> 
> 
>   
> 
> --- In xl7@yahoogroups.com, "steve_the_composer" <smw-mail@> wrote:
> >
> > Thanks for the reply.  I am starting to understand, but need to read it when I am not distracted.  
> > 
> > The last time I tried to sort out step sequencing (again, in response to questions someone had), I thought for sure I was able to insert any number of CCs, but there were limits--perhaps only 1 value per CC at any given tick, or something like that, there was no auto advance, and that only the last CC value would be recorded.
> > 
> > I am not sure if this relates to what you are doing (or want to do), but I will try to find the thread on this.
> > 
> > Out of curiosity, do you have a programmable midi controller? That would give you more than the 16 CCs which the E-Mu has. Also, you might want to see if you can use not only the quick edit CCs, but the programmable CCs. I am not sure if that would give you up to 32 CCs without testing it, but you might want to try.
> > 
> > Steve 
> > 
> > --- In xl7@yahoogroups.com, "bonzai2050" <bonzai2050@> wrote:
> > >
> > > What I'm saying is that you should be able to sequence things like Pitch, Cutoff, and basically everything, the same way you sequence Vel and Gate in Grid Mode, using the knobs and the same display.
> > > 
> > > I thought thats what 16 step sequencing was all about. There are 16 knobs here ready to send numbers to parameters.
> > > 
> > > Velocity is the only parameter which can be totally isolated and routed to something else, for exmaple Pitch. Sure you can route lots of Velocity copies, but thats just the same sequence.
> > > 
> > > If you could pick things like Filter Cutoff instead of just Velocity and Gate it would have been a real 16 step sequencer for many if not all tweakable parameters.
> > > 
> > > This is different from just recording yourself turning the Cutoff knob. That is cool I like that too, but actual control of the value of each step, while the sequencer is running in grid mode, without going into step mode, would have been pretty super and I imagine wouldn't have taken much effort program... since it already exists for Velocity and Gate.
> > > 
> > > Anyway, just some food for thought there. 
> > > 
> > > --- In xl7@yahoogroups.com, "bonzai2050" <bonzai2050@> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > I deleted my last two posts for brevity.
> > > > 
> > > > The issue is, the only two parameters you can use to record a 16 knob sequence in Grid mode are Vel and Gate. 
> > > > 
> > > > That's why I wanted to repatch Gate to something else, which can't be done, because as you said, if Gate is somehow unpatched, there will be no sound.
> > > > 
> > > > This would not matter if all CC's were sequencable in Grid mode. But, they aren't, you can only record real-time twiddles. 
> > > > 
> > > > Korg MS2000 has three 'lanes' to for 16 step sequencing which can be patched to a variety of different CCs. Many other synths have this, and I thought "Anything with 16 sequential knobs surely does this"
> > > > 
> > > > I don't want to have to drop $1000 on a Cirklon, or build a MIDIBox Seq v4 without any electronics experience.
> > > > 
> > > > I figured if there are 16 knobs on this baby then surely you must be able to sequence any CC.
> > > > 
> > > > But I only have Velocity and Gate to sequence with the 16 knobs in Grid mode. Thats the bummer. :)
> > > > 
> > > > 
> > > > --- In xl7@yahoogroups.com, "steve_the_composer" <smw-mail@> wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > This is an interesting thread, but I am confused when you say that gate controlling gate is a bummer.  What are you trying to do or not do?
> > > > > 
> > > > > It almost seems like you are saying that when a note is triggered, you don't want it to make a sound, but this doesn't make sense to me.
> > > > > 
> > > > > Thanks.
> > > > > 
> > > > > Steve
> > > > > 
> > > > > --- In xl7@yahoogroups.com, "bonzai2050" <bonzai2050@> wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Well I just gave it another shot. This time building the entire patch from scratch with only the most necessary patchcords.
> > > > > > 
> > > > > > Gate wasn't routed to anything, almost everything was 'off'. Still it was controlling the Gate. 
> > > > > > 
> > > > > > They are just 16th notes btw. Unless I'm doing something wrong or missing something, it seems that you can't stop Gate from controlling Gate.
> > > > > > 
> > > > > > 
> > > > > > --- In xl7@yahoogroups.com, Bruno <brunorc@> wrote:
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Just from top of my head:
> > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > 2012/6/10 bonzai2050 <bonzai2050@>:
> > > > > > > > Also... although you can assign Gate to control whatever you want, it still seems to control the Gate as well. That's a bit of a bummer.
> > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > Have you tried searching for a patchcord that binds those to
> > > > > > > disconnect it exactly in the same way as below:
> > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > > Velocity works perfectly though after you disable the Vel->Amp patch.
> > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > The whole thread seems interesting. I have AN1x which features a real
> > > > > > > step sequencer, but hadn't time yet to dig it.
> > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > Bruno
> > > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > >
> >
>

> I am just wondering if you have played around with indirect patchcords, say for example where #24 sends Lfo2+ [or any other control source] to FilterFrequency [or any other destination] with a zero amount and #23 uses Gate (for example) routed to C24Amt.
> 

Yea I did that a bunch today. Very cool and useful for live performance or to use as a real-time recording controller. Definitely a great feature and very versatile.

> BTW, unlss I am mistaken, key can also be isolated. To test, turn nontranspose on and route Key+ of your grid recording to pitch [or any other destination].
>

For me Key wasn't used because every 16th note was the same note and the Pitch was controlled by Velocity. In my other post I put my workflow if you want to see exactly what I did.
 
> Hmmmmm. Since each layer has its own key and velocity range settings, I am wondering if that might be useful in grid mode. Perhaaps one octave cane be set up for filter frequency [cutoff] and another can be set up for filter resonance.
> 

That would work but Key isn't sequencable like Velocity. Its based on the programmed note and can't be adjusted using the knobs. 

> Yes, I know these are not the features you are wishing the E-Mu sequencer had, but as long as I am exploring, I thought I'd share what I am discovering.  (Maybe you know all this already, but its new to me.)

One thing I tried to do was use one track to modulate another track (this would be a workaround). But I either couldn't figure it out or it can't be done.

> 
> Man, this is cool stuff!!!! Thanks for bringing it the topic.

It really is cool. I really love the XL7 its really great even without a 'Mod Sequencer' type behavior that I'm describing. But again, there might be some type of workaround I have to experiment more.

:)


> 
> --- In xl7@yahoogroups.com, "bonzai2050" <bonzai2050@> wrote:
> >
> > What I'm saying is that you should be able to sequence things like Pitch, Cutoff, and basically everything, the same way you sequence Vel and Gate in Grid Mode, using the knobs and the same display.
> > 
> > I thought thats what 16 step sequencing was all about. There are 16 knobs here ready to send numbers to parameters.
> > 
> > Velocity is the only parameter which can be totally isolated and routed to something else, for exmaple Pitch. Sure you can route lots of Velocity copies, but thats just the same sequence.
> > 
> > If you could pick things like Filter Cutoff instead of just Velocity and Gate it would have been a real 16 step sequencer for many if not all tweakable parameters.
> > 
> > This is different from just recording yourself turning the Cutoff knob. That is cool I like that too, but actual control of the value of each step, while the sequencer is running in grid mode, without going into step mode, would have been pretty super and I imagine wouldn't have taken much effort program... since it already exists for Velocity and Gate.
> > 
> > Anyway, just some food for thought there. 
> > 
> > --- In xl7@yahoogroups.com, "bonzai2050" <bonzai2050@> wrote:
> > >
> > > I deleted my last two posts for brevity.
> > > 
> > > The issue is, the only two parameters you can use to record a 16 knob sequence in Grid mode are Vel and Gate. 
> > > 
> > > That's why I wanted to repatch Gate to something else, which can't be done, because as you said, if Gate is somehow unpatched, there will be no sound.
> > > 
> > > This would not matter if all CC's were sequencable in Grid mode. But, they aren't, you can only record real-time twiddles. 
> > > 
> > > Korg MS2000 has three 'lanes' to for 16 step sequencing which can be patched to a variety of different CCs. Many other synths have this, and I thought "Anything with 16 sequential knobs surely does this"
> > > 
> > > I don't want to have to drop $1000 on a Cirklon, or build a MIDIBox Seq v4 without any electronics experience.
> > > 
> > > I figured if there are 16 knobs on this baby then surely you must be able to sequence any CC.
> > > 
> > > But I only have Velocity and Gate to sequence with the 16 knobs in Grid mode. Thats the bummer. :)
> > > 
> > > 
> > > --- In xl7@yahoogroups.com, "steve_the_composer" <smw-mail@> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > This is an interesting thread, but I am confused when you say that gate controlling gate is a bummer.  What are you trying to do or not do?
> > > > 
> > > > It almost seems like you are saying that when a note is triggered, you don't want it to make a sound, but this doesn't make sense to me.
> > > > 
> > > > Thanks.
> > > > 
> > > > Steve
> > > > 
> > > > --- In xl7@yahoogroups.com, "bonzai2050" <bonzai2050@> wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > Well I just gave it another shot. This time building the entire patch from scratch with only the most necessary patchcords.
> > > > > 
> > > > > Gate wasn't routed to anything, almost everything was 'off'. Still it was controlling the Gate. 
> > > > > 
> > > > > They are just 16th notes btw. Unless I'm doing something wrong or missing something, it seems that you can't stop Gate from controlling Gate.
> > > > > 
> > > > > 
> > > > > --- In xl7@yahoogroups.com, Bruno <brunorc@> wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Just from top of my head:
> > > > > > 
> > > > > > 2012/6/10 bonzai2050 <bonzai2050@>:
> > > > > > > Also... although you can assign Gate to control whatever you want, it still seems to control the Gate as well. That's a bit of a bummer.
> > > > > > 
> > > > > > Have you tried searching for a patchcord that binds those to
> > > > > > disconnect it exactly in the same way as below:
> > > > > > 
> > > > > > > Velocity works perfectly though after you disable the Vel->Amp patch.
> > > > > > 
> > > > > > The whole thread seems interesting. I have AN1x which features a real
> > > > > > step sequencer, but hadn't time yet to dig it.
> > > > > > 
> > > > > > Bruno
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > >
> >
>

--- In xl7@yahoogroups.com, "bonzai2050" <bonzai2050@...> wrote:

[snip]

> For me Key wasn't used because every 16th note was the same note and the Pitch was controlled by Velocity. In my other post I put my workflow if you want to see exactly what I did.

Steve: Yes, I did see the detailed workflow. Thanks for spelling that out!! I am looking forward to running through the steps.


> > Hmmmmm. Since each layer has its own key and velocity range settings, I am wondering if that might be useful in grid mode. Perhaaps one octave cane be set up for filter frequency [cutoff] and another can be set up for filter resonance.
> > 
> 
> That would work but Key isn't sequencable like Velocity. Its based on the programmed note and can't be adjusted using the knobs. 

Steve: Yeah. I guess I was thinking more along the lines of using a prc patch that was basically untransposed anyway and using a patchcord with key to control something like filter settings, or setting up the same tone on 4 layers with different filters and using key to control cross-fade between the layers. Not sure this would do anything useful as I didn't test it out.  Yet. 

[snip]

OK, I gave this a try. For someone like me who has never done anything with grid mode (except what I tried last night), it is an excellent tutorial--easy to follow, shows the basics, points in the direction of further potential, and explains some of the limitations. Thanks for spelling out these steps.

I like that you can set up a sequence for each note. I am thinking of trying to set up a preset so that the knobs --> pitch are quantized into a scale (rather than being continuous). If it works as I imagine, I am thinking of a grid mode polyphonic/multi-layered arpeggiator wqhere picthes are selected according to the scale built into the peset using the knobs.

Of course, doing that on a single track with a single layer preset limits the sound to one ROM instrument. However, it would seem that with 4 layers each having a different ROM instrument (using 1 key range for each), there is great potential for sonic complexity.

And if all that works on one track, I can imagine trying it several tracks, since each track can have its own preset [each with a different use of key, vel, and gate patchcords].

BTW, the limit of grid mode record you first mentioned makes sense now. It seems to me that grid mode was designed to record only the following events: note, velocity, and duration.

It is a testament to the P2K synth engine that with just those three we can do as much as we can.  

Now that I have explored grid mode, if there were to be an OS 3.0, it would be great to have access to CCs in the same way we can access a grid for each note.

Steve



--- In xl7@yahoogroups.com, "bonzai2050" <bonzai2050@...> wrote:

[snip]

. . . to be totally clear, here is the workflow:
> 
> 1) Very basic one instrument patch, with basic waveform... something that sounds good with a nice sounding filter. For example square wave with the TBornotTB filter.
> 
> 2) Patch Vel+- -> Pitch and Gate->FilterFreq. 
> 
> 3) Go into Grid Rec and start sequencer. Make one bar with all 16th Notes, C3 for example. Has to be same note because you'll control the Pitch using Velocity as patched earlier.
> 
> 5) Now all 16 knobs are controlling the Pitch of each step. For you to write acid lines and other patterns. Make sure Vel->Amp is either zero or unpatched because you dont want it to interfere with the process just yet.
> 
> 6) You can press the button above the knobs to switch to Gate and FilterCutoff, or whatever you patched to Gate.
> 
> So thats it, which is great but pretty limited. If you want to record Filter Cutoff animation or something then you have to use Realtime (dont have to stop Seq), but you can't program them individually for each step like the Pitch.
> 
> Technically there are only "Vel" and "Gate" which send "per step" values, and so we can only switch between the two for direct access to the value of each step.
> 
> There could have been "Seq 1", "Seq 2", "Seq 3", ... etc to patch to 'Pitch', 'FilterCutoff', 'Decay', 'EfxSend'.. etc etc.. and we could be using the 16 knobs to modulate any parameter on the fly without stopping anything. 
> 
> I don't know if there's a workaround. I mean its nice to at least write the Pitch modulations, but if every parameter was accessible like this it would have been seriously next-level.
> 
> Anyway if you try as I described you'll see how easy it is to program sequences using just the 16 knobs in grid mode. At the end of the day its just a very fun way of programming patterns, using both hands directly accessing steps and tweaking the parameter that it is linked to and currently displaying (exactly like Vel and Gate). The results can be very awesome and perfect for many different things.
> 
> Thanks for checking it out. :)

Yea the possibilities for further use are really nice. I am trying to figure out all the features of the XL7 in a balanced way at the moment so currently I will wrap my head around multisetups and the 'dummy clips' you mentioned in another topic. :)

I'm glad the idea of 'recorded values' in Grid mode made sense. It is really cool what can be done when arbitrary sequences can be assigned to any value (basically just using Vel on the Xl7).

The idea of different sequences per Key is also hugely cool. I will definitely experiment with this in the future. Since the actual Pitch was determined by Velocity, each Key could certainly be a totally different Pitch sequence. 

Thanks for looking at the workflow Steve!
Btw your information regarding other aspects of the XL7 always pop up when I'm in need. Cheers!

--- In xl7@yahoogroups.com, "steve_the_composer" <smw-mail@...> wrote:
>
> OK, I gave this a try. For someone like me who has never done anything with grid mode (except what I tried last night), it is an excellent tutorial--easy to follow, shows the basics, points in the direction of further potential, and explains some of the limitations. Thanks for spelling out these steps.
> 
> I like that you can set up a sequence for each note. I am thinking of trying to set up a preset so that the knobs --> pitch are quantized into a scale (rather than being continuous). If it works as I imagine, I am thinking of a grid mode polyphonic/multi-layered arpeggiator wqhere picthes are selected according to the scale built into the peset using the knobs.
> 
> Of course, doing that on a single track with a single layer preset limits the sound to one ROM instrument. However, it would seem that with 4 layers each having a different ROM instrument (using 1 key range for each), there is great potential for sonic complexity.
> 
> And if all that works on one track, I can imagine trying it several tracks, since each track can have its own preset [each with a different use of key, vel, and gate patchcords].
> 
> BTW, the limit of grid mode record you first mentioned makes sense now. It seems to me that grid mode was designed to record only the following events: note, velocity, and duration.
> 
> It is a testament to the P2K synth engine that with just those three we can do as much as we can.  
> 
> Now that I have explored grid mode, if there were to be an OS 3.0, it would be great to have access to CCs in the same way we can access a grid for each note.
> 
> Steve
> 
> 
> 
> --- In xl7@yahoogroups.com, "bonzai2050" <bonzai2050@> wrote:
> 
> [snip]
> 
> . . . to be totally clear, here is the workflow:
> > 
> > 1) Very basic one instrument patch, with basic waveform... something that sounds good with a nice sounding filter. For example square wave with the TBornotTB filter.
> > 
> > 2) Patch Vel+- -> Pitch and Gate->FilterFreq. 
> > 
> > 3) Go into Grid Rec and start sequencer. Make one bar with all 16th Notes, C3 for example. Has to be same note because you'll control the Pitch using Velocity as patched earlier.
> > 
> > 5) Now all 16 knobs are controlling the Pitch of each step. For you to write acid lines and other patterns. Make sure Vel->Amp is either zero or unpatched because you dont want it to interfere with the process just yet.
> > 
> > 6) You can press the button above the knobs to switch to Gate and FilterCutoff, or whatever you patched to Gate.
> > 
> > So thats it, which is great but pretty limited. If you want to record Filter Cutoff animation or something then you have to use Realtime (dont have to stop Seq), but you can't program them individually for each step like the Pitch.
> > 
> > Technically there are only "Vel" and "Gate" which send "per step" values, and so we can only switch between the two for direct access to the value of each step.
> > 
> > There could have been "Seq 1", "Seq 2", "Seq 3", ... etc to patch to 'Pitch', 'FilterCutoff', 'Decay', 'EfxSend'.. etc etc.. and we could be using the 16 knobs to modulate any parameter on the fly without stopping anything. 
> > 
> > I don't know if there's a workaround. I mean its nice to at least write the Pitch modulations, but if every parameter was accessible like this it would have been seriously next-level.
> > 
> > Anyway if you try as I described you'll see how easy it is to program sequences using just the 16 knobs in grid mode. At the end of the day its just a very fun way of programming patterns, using both hands directly accessing steps and tweaking the parameter that it is linked to and currently displaying (exactly like Vel and Gate). The results can be very awesome and perfect for many different things.
> > 
> > Thanks for checking it out. :)
>