Emu XL-7 & MP-7 User's Group

Hello all,

i get my Composer ROM to my Command STation.
Is anybody has the original patternz?

i try the 2500.zip from the files section but it is not compatible no sound came out, becouse the instrument def is not for the Copmposer rom.

Thank you!!!!

I probably won't have time until this weekend, but I should be able to convert the P2500 ROM banks so >>most<< of the presets will play using the original P2K Composer ROM. Basically, my program will change the ROM_ID bytes. Since the original p2k composer rom does not have arps or beats and has fewer riffs than the P2500, it will not be a 100% match.  I will look tonight to see if I already have them stored on my PC. If so, I will upload them.
--Steve      

--- In xl7@yahoogroups.com, "laszlozizics" <fantahs@...> wrote:
>
> Hello all,
> 
> i get my Composer ROM to my Command STation.
> Is anybody has the original patternz?
> 
> i try the 2500.zip from the files section but it is not compatible no sound came out, becouse the instrument def is not for the Copmposer rom.
> 
> Thank you!!!!
>

The two should have the same ROM Instruments in the same numerical order, but the ROM_ID to those instruments is different. Its alot quicker to change them all at once in a bank of 128 presets with software than to do it by hand. But you can change the necessary ROM IDs by hand, if you really want to. (Well, not you, but someone without the P2500 ROM.)

--Steve

 

--- In xl7@yahoogroups.com, Elektrofunkenstein <elektrofunkenstein@...> wrote:
>
> hey,
> they work with my command station, but I have pop rom from Proteus 2500
> (PROM1 ) installed which has the same sounds as composer rom but totally
> different presets location. You need to ask people who did conversions for
> help.
> 
> good luck!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> On 15 September 2010 12:47, laszlozizics <fantahs@...> wrote:
> 
> >
> >
> > Hello all,
> >
> > i get my Composer ROM to my Command STation.
> > Is anybody has the original patternz?
> >
> > i try the 2500.zip from the files section but it is not compatible no sound
> > came out, becouse the instrument def is not for the Copmposer rom.
> >
> > Thank you!!!!
> >
> >  
> >
>

I uploaded a preliminary version of the P2500-->CMPSR Presets. Be sure to read the readme.txt file. BTW, sysex ID should be 0 (if I remember correctly).
--Steve

The version I have been working on is 0.004. I have not uploaded it anywhere yet. I came back to it after Sika in the P2K tried to convert the PK6 presets for use with the CMPSR ROM. There were problems with his algorithm, so I decided to work on the ROM_ID conversion routines in Syxer. (This was in August.) I understand that Sika wrote a CS routine, but I really didn't have much time, so I just used "ignore checksum"--not the best way to do it, but its quick and it works. (I haven't seen Sika's program or algorithm, so I am not sure what the problem was.)

0.004 is still a console type application, but the new functionality is not built into the command line handler. (Why waste the time? It does what I want as a console app!)

The target ROM_ID might still be hard coded, though I seem to remember working on a keypress that would allow users to select a destination ROM_ID. I will have to pull it out this weekend and see where I was with that. (No sense posting a version where users cannot set the target ID!)

The version of 0.004 I have on this PC uses "I" to convert all ROM_IDs in the bank that's loaded. I believe version 0.004 on another PC uses "T" to set the target ROM_ID. (The other one also sets the arp pattern ROM_IDs to 0.) 

I'll try to look at it this weekend and see if its ready to upload, such as it is.

Now that I think about it, I may have had the idea to allow users to toggle between (1) changing all ROM_IDs to the Destination ID and (2) changing everything except the arp patterns to the Detination ID and setting the arp patterns to ROM_ID = 0.

Actually, I think that's where I left off.

The version I have in front of me saves the converted bank as OUTPUT.SYX, so each conversion has to be renamed. The newer version has a naming scheme I was working on--something like ' appended to the source filename. (User 0-0.syx becomes User 0-0'.syx.)

It still lists the names of the presets in a bank (like 0.003) and still shows the preset data in hex on a packet by packet basis.

I seem to recall adding more lines at the bottom of the hex display possibly to identify the ROM_ID there as well.

Thanks for mentioning 0.003. Its helping me to remember where I was with 0.004. Who knows, maybe I will have a somewhat user-friendly version this weekend or next.

BTW, it does no range-checking whatsoever!!!!!!!

So if someone has a bank for a ROM with 1713 ROM Instruments and converts it for a ROM with 58 ROM Instruments, most of the presets will not work.  I have given thought to what would go into the range checking routines, but in order to implement it, I'd need people to supply acceptable ranges for each ROM.

Your workaround is also a good one. I did something like that with SONAR to get XL-7 patterns to play on an XLEAD ROM. I did that on a track-by-track basis, though. I like the one click approach, but I am not sure if I could have done it that way. 

Come to think of it, maybe that's what gave me the idea of changing to sysex banks themselves.

--Steve 



--- In xl7@yahoogroups.com, Elektrofunkenstein <elektrofunkenstein@...> wrote:
>
> I made a workaround to this with pure phatt rom and patterns from MP-7 by
> importing them to Ableton Live. I only changed bank number by selecting all
> clips, just with a single click. But you need to use Live as a master that
> controls CS.
> 
> Steve, what is the newest version of Syxer? I have 0.003 version that don't
> have the functionality you mensioned. I want to change ID's from MK-6
> presets, the 5th bank to make it play on Pure Phatt rom. I didn't find this
> conversion anywhere. Where can I download the newest one?
> 
> Mariusz_ot
> 
> On 15 September 2010 22:09, steve_the_composer <smw-mail@...> wrote:
> 
> >
> >
> > The two should have the same ROM Instruments in the same numerical order,
> > but the ROM_ID to those instruments is different. Its alot quicker to change
> > them all at once in a bank of 128 presets with software than to do it by
> > hand. But you can change the necessary ROM IDs by hand, if you really want
> > to. (Well, not you, but someone without the P2500 ROM.)
> >
> > --Steve
> >
> >
> > --- In xl7@yahoogroups.com <xl7%40yahoogroups.com>, Elektrofunkenstein
> > <elektrofunkenstein@> wrote:
> > >
> > > hey,
> > > they work with my command station, but I have pop rom from Proteus 2500
> > > (PROM1 ) installed which has the same sounds as composer rom but totally
> > > different presets location. You need to ask people who did conversions
> > for
> > > help.
> > >
> > > good luck!
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > On 15 September 2010 12:47, laszlozizics <fantahs@> wrote:
> > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Hello all,
> > > >
> > > > i get my Composer ROM to my Command STation.
> > > > Is anybody has the original patternz?
> > > >
> > > > i try the 2500.zip from the files section but it is not compatible no
> > sound
> > > > came out, becouse the instrument def is not for the Copmposer rom.
> > > >
> > > > Thank you!!!!
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> >
> >  
> >
>

PS: If you upload the 5th bank of the MK6 ROM, I can convert it if you tell me the target ROM_ID. It will go back to the same user bank you use to do the dump. I assume you want the arp ROM_IDs to be the same as the target ROM. I can do that now on this PC. If you want me to set them to 0, I will have to dig out the most recent version. (Or you can wait until I have 0.004 in a more user-friendly state.)
--Steve  

--- In xl7@yahoogroups.com, Elektrofunkenstein <elektrofunkenstein@...> wrote:

[snip]

> I want to change ID's from MK-6
> presets, the 5th bank to make it play on Pure Phatt rom. I didn't find this
> conversion anywhere. Where can I download the newest one?

Remember to run ableton as a slave to avoid sync problems from cpu maxing out. Also beware stuck notes when sequencing with ableton live. its usually much better to bounce to audio clip beforehand (or not use ableton live for sequencing) to avoid these problems.

On Sep 16, 2010 8:37 AM, "Elektrofunkenstein" <elektrofunkenstein@...> wrote:

And it might be worth mentioning that Composer rom has 8 banks and Pop rom has only 5. I don't even have place in user banks if I wanted to have composer all presets. But hey, that's why we can use Proteus Vx for. It has exact the same presets as composer rom.

As far as I know Live is the only sequencer allowing importing all patterns in one project and have them available to play instantly. The only problem I came across is stucked instruments in some presets when you switch them one by one. In CS it never happens. Besides this everything looks neat and control is a breeze. The XMIX feature in CS looks somehow limited (and much slower) compared to Live clips/scenes approach.

I only wish it was that flexible with presets and instruments edit. I guess it would be possible with Max for Live.

On 16 September 2010 00:37, steve_the_composer <smw-mail@...> wrote:
>
>
>
> BTW, it doe...

I took MROM-4 and converted it to use ROM_ID 13 in all places where ROM_ID occurs (including arp pattern). However, it was odd: I checked a few banks in all three sets you uploaded and they all showed up as having ROM_ID 15. I am not sure why. 

Please let me know if there are any problems with MROM-4 (13), or if if it works the way you wanted.

--Steve 

--- In xl7@yahoogroups.com, Elektrofunkenstein <elektrofunkenstein@...> wrote:
>
> You are da man Steve.
> I have uploaded 3 preset banks that share the same Pure Phatt instruments to
> this folder:
> http://launch.groups.yahoo.com/group/xl7/files/Command%20Station%20Data/Banks%20Dumps/
> 
> And, we have this rom: PHATT 9062 Pure Phatt [Mo'Phatt] expansion EMUROM13,
> and we want 1 bank conversion from: MROM1 xxxx Pure Phatt [MK-6] expansion
> EMUROM19
> 
> The file we are interested in is MROM-4.syx, and is packed in: 19 - Pure
> PHATT (MK-6).rar<http://f1.grp.yahoofs.com/v1/8DCSTJwVqxTIIhv-PiZsmxIp3Yg9Z46_Z643Oh42sKX08FmT86Q-vVr6_vwjc-Or2c2utiQ0_54QfgQ0cPdUjplW6pSTPH50/Command%20Station%20Data/Banks%20Dumps/19%20-%20Pure%20PHATT%20%28MK-6%29.rar>
> :
> So, source ID is 19 and target ID is 13. When I send it via Midi OX it saves
> it USER bank 0, andt the first preset is bts:Plinky.
> Hope this is clear. Ah yea, arps would be nice to:)
> 
> thanks Steve!
> 
> 
> On 16 September 2010 01:07, steve_the_composer <smw-mail@...> wrote:
> 
> >
> >
> > PS: If you upload the 5th bank of the MK6 ROM, I can convert it if you tell
> > me the target ROM_ID. It will go back to the same user bank you use to do
> > the dump. I assume you want the arp ROM_IDs to be the same as the target
> > ROM. I can do that now on this PC. If you want me to set them to 0, I will
> > have to dig out the most recent version. (Or you can wait until I have 0.004
> > in a more user-friendly state.)
> >
> > --Steve
> >
> > --- In xl7@yahoogroups.com <xl7%40yahoogroups.com>, Elektrofunkenstein
> > <elektrofunkenstein@> wrote:
> >
> > [snip]
> >
> >
> > > I want to change ID's from MK-6
> > > presets, the 5th bank to make it play on Pure Phatt rom. I didn't find
> > this
> > > conversion anywhere. Where can I download the newest one?
> >
> >  
> >
>

I went to the original rar files. The numbering system used to upload the presets (01 -> 23) is just consecutive numbering for the files, not the ROM_ID. I am assuming that 15 = MROM. (Can anyone with an MROM confirm this?) For the record, here's what I have. (See below.) If MROM is indeed 15, I can add that to my list. Are there any others I am missing? Any corrections? 

Steve

PS: If people can get me the following info, I should be able to impliment some range checking for conversions. 

ROM:
Number of ROM Instuments:
Number of Riffs:

I do not have time to create substitution matrices for ROM Instruments, Riffs, and perhaps a bank of user arps (substitution matrix + one bank of loadable user arp patterns), but if others want to work on that, I could build the results into Syxer.

(BTW: Please keep in mind, these are simple ROM_ID conversions only. No attempt is made to convert 12-controller presets to 16-controller presets or vice versa--though I have give thought to having user selectable controller/patchcord setups in the yet-to-be developed "Parametizer.")    

  ROM_Name[0] := 'USER RAM';
  ROM_Name[2] := 'Extreme';
  ROM_Name[3] := 'Audity';
  ROM_Name[4] := 'Composer';
  ROM_Name[5] := 'Protozoa';
  ROM_Name[6] := 'Definitive B-3';
  ROM_Name[7] := 'X-Lead';
  ROM_Name[8] := 'Sounds of the ZR';
  ROM_Name[9] := 'World Expedition';
  ROM_Name[10] := 'Orch. Sess. Vol. 1';
  ROM_Name[11] := 'Orch. Sess. Vol. 2';
  ROM_Name[13] := 'Pure Phatt';
{  ROM_Name[14] := 'X-Lead V.2'; }
  ROM_Name[14] := 'XROM';
  ROM_Name[16] := 'Ensoniq Project';
  ROM_Name[17] := 'Proteus 2500';
  ROM_Name[18] := 'Vintage Collection';
  ROM_Name[19] := 'Protean Drums';
  ROM_Name[64] := 'Holy Grail';
  ROM_Name[65] := 'TSCY';
  ROM_Name[66] := 'Advanced Orchestra';
  ROM_Name[67] := 'Beat Garden';




--- In xl7@yahoogroups.com, "steve_the_composer" <smw-mail@...> wrote:
>
> I took MROM-4 and converted it to use ROM_ID 13 in all places where ROM_ID occurs (including arp pattern). However, it was odd: I checked a few banks in all three sets you uploaded and they all showed up as having ROM_ID 15. I am not sure why. 
> 
> Please let me know if there are any problems with MROM-4 (13), or if if it works the way you wanted.
> 
> --Steve 
> 
> --- In xl7@yahoogroups.com, Elektrofunkenstein <elektrofunkenstein@> wrote:
> >
> > You are da man Steve.
> > I have uploaded 3 preset banks that share the same Pure Phatt instruments to
> > this folder:
> > http://launch.groups.yahoo.com/group/xl7/files/Command%20Station%20Data/Banks%20Dumps/
> > 
> > And, we have this rom: PHATT 9062 Pure Phatt [Mo'Phatt] expansion EMUROM13,
> > and we want 1 bank conversion from: MROM1 xxxx Pure Phatt [MK-6] expansion
> > EMUROM19
> > 
> > The file we are interested in is MROM-4.syx, and is packed in: 19 - Pure
> > PHATT (MK-6).rar<http://f1.grp.yahoofs.com/v1/8DCSTJwVqxTIIhv-PiZsmxIp3Yg9Z46_Z643Oh42sKX08FmT86Q-vVr6_vwjc-Or2c2utiQ0_54QfgQ0cPdUjplW6pSTPH50/Command%20Station%20Data/Banks%20Dumps/19%20-%20Pure%20PHATT%20%28MK-6%29.rar>
> > :
> > So, source ID is 19 and target ID is 13. When I send it via Midi OX it saves
> > it USER bank 0, andt the first preset is bts:Plinky.
> > Hope this is clear. Ah yea, arps would be nice to:)
> > 
> > thanks Steve!
> > 
> > 
> > On 16 September 2010 01:07, steve_the_composer <smw-mail@> wrote:
> > 
> > >
> > >
> > > PS: If you upload the 5th bank of the MK6 ROM, I can convert it if you tell
> > > me the target ROM_ID. It will go back to the same user bank you use to do
> > > the dump. I assume you want the arp ROM_IDs to be the same as the target
> > > ROM. I can do that now on this PC. If you want me to set them to 0, I will
> > > have to dig out the most recent version. (Or you can wait until I have 0.004
> > > in a more user-friendly state.)
> > >
> > > --Steve
> > >
> > > --- In xl7@yahoogroups.com <xl7%40yahoogroups.com>, Elektrofunkenstein
> > > <elektrofunkenstein@> wrote:
> > >
> > > [snip]
> > >
> > >
> > > > I want to change ID's from MK-6
> > > > presets, the 5th bank to make it play on Pure Phatt rom. I didn't find
> > > this
> > > > conversion anywhere. Where can I download the newest one?
> > >
> > >  
> > >
> >
>

Thank you for all.
But the Instruments are fine only the p2500 patterns do nothing, "not installed" she say (command station) when i upload the pattern.

I know that is a stupid question but i dont understand that rom id things what u say and what can i do with that... sorry :D

(1) Basically the CS/P2500 has 2 parts:
 (a) a sequencer
 (b) a synth engine
(There's more to it, but I am trying to keep it simple here.)

(2) Basically, the sequencer uses Patch Change commands to tell the synth engine what preset to play.
(Again, I am keeping it simple and leaving out lots of details.)

(3) Patch Change commands consist of four pieces of information:
 (a) midi channel
 (b) preset number
 (c) bank select number consisting of
-----[1] ROM ID [MSB as found when you press audition]
-----[2] ROM Bank [LSB]

(4) The factory sequences are set up for specific ROMS. By that I mean (for example): The P2500 sequences in the E-Mu sequencer send Patch Change commands to the synth engine to select presets on the P2500 ROM.

(5) If you don't have the P2500 ROM (using the same example), the sequencer will point each Channel on the CS/P2500 to a preset in a ROM Bank on a ROM that you don't have.

Hope that makes sense.

To get the P2500 sequences to play with another ROM, you need to change the srquences so they point to one of the ROMS you have. 

I apologize if the more advanced discussion of ROM_ID got us side-tracked from trying to solve your problem. I hope the above explanation (1) helps you to understand why the sequences don't produce any sound and (2) helps you to understand what you need to do to make each of the tracks play a preset for a ROM that you do have.

I am sure I am leaving out some steps, but I hope this is a start.

--Steve  



--- In xl7@yahoogroups.com, "laszlozizics" <fantahs@...> wrote:
>
> Thank you for all.
> But the Instruments are fine only the p2500 patterns do nothing, "not installed" she say (command station) when i upload the pattern.
> 
> I know that is a stupid question but i dont understand that rom id things what u say and what can i do with that... sorry :D
>

Glad to hear it works--somewhat. Since I don't have any of those ROMS or a CS, I am not sure I can figure out what's going on. If pads trigger beats, I am not sure why the buttons don't. Perhaps the riffs are in a different order on the two ROMs and the preset is pointing to a non-bts riff. (But then the pads shouldn't trigger beats.) If I had the roms, I would examine what's going on in edit mode and also check global settings. I think that's about all I can suggest at this point.
--Steve 
Oh, it might be a good idea to compare resources in the two roms (ROM instruments, riffs, arps, etc.). 

--- In xl7@yahoogroups.com, Elektrofunkenstein <elektrofunkenstein@...> wrote:
>
> Wow that was fast Steve. And it's alive! :)
> 
> I have some notes though. I went trough the whole bank and noticed that:
> 
> - all Beat Mode presets work from pads only. Trigger buttons or audition
> button don't do anything except one repated note. I really wish it could be
> triggered as with other bts presets on other roms
> - preset 045 bts:Mo n' Mo doesn't work at all and it shows "ROM ???? (not
> installed)" in instrument menu
> - preset 046 must be missing cause nothing was uploaded
> 
> ID 15 in the banks uploaded would suggest it was converted to use in MP-7 I
> guess.
> 
> Thanks again!
> 
> 
> On 17 September 2010 00:47, steve_the_composer <smw-mail@...> wrote:
> 
> >
> >
> > I took MROM-4 and converted it to use ROM_ID 13 in all places where ROM_ID
> > occurs (including arp pattern). However, it was odd: I checked a few banks
> > in all three sets you uploaded and they all showed up as having ROM_ID 15. I
> > am not sure why.
> >
> > Please let me know if there are any problems with MROM-4 (13), or if if it
> > works the way you wanted.
> >
> >
> > --Steve
> >
> > --- In xl7@yahoogroups.com <xl7%40yahoogroups.com>, Elektrofunkenstein
> > <elektrofunkenstein@> wrote:
> > >
> > > You are da man Steve.
> > > I have uploaded 3 preset banks that share the same Pure Phatt instruments
> > to
> > > this folder:
> > >
> > http://launch.groups.yahoo.com/group/xl7/files/Command%20Station%20Data/Banks%20Dumps/
> > >
> > > And, we have this rom: PHATT 9062 Pure Phatt [Mo'Phatt] expansion
> > EMUROM13,
> > > and we want 1 bank conversion from: MROM1 xxxx Pure Phatt [MK-6]
> > expansion
> > > EMUROM19
> > >
> > > The file we are interested in is MROM-4.syx, and is packed in: 19 - Pure
> > > PHATT (MK-6).rar<
> > http://f1.grp.yahoofs.com/v1/8DCSTJwVqxTIIhv-PiZsmxIp3Yg9Z46_Z643Oh42sKX08FmT86Q-vVr6_vwjc-Or2c2utiQ0_54QfgQ0cPdUjplW6pSTPH50/Command%20Station%20Data/Banks%20Dumps/19%20-%20Pure%20PHATT%20%28MK-6%29.rar
> > >
> >
> > > :
> > > So, source ID is 19 and target ID is 13. When I send it via Midi OX it
> > saves
> > > it USER bank 0, andt the first preset is bts:Plinky.
> > > Hope this is clear. Ah yea, arps would be nice to:)
> > >
> > > thanks Steve!
> > >
> > >
> > > On 16 September 2010 01:07, steve_the_composer <smw-mail@> wrote:
> > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > PS: If you upload the 5th bank of the MK6 ROM, I can convert it if you
> > tell
> > > > me the target ROM_ID. It will go back to the same user bank you use to
> > do
> > > > the dump. I assume you want the arp ROM_IDs to be the same as the
> > target
> > > > ROM. I can do that now on this PC. If you want me to set them to 0, I
> > will
> > > > have to dig out the most recent version. (Or you can wait until I have
> > 0.004
> > > > in a more user-friendly state.)
> > > >
> > > > --Steve
> > > >
> > > > --- In xl7@yahoogroups.com <xl7%40yahoogroups.com> <xl7%
> > 40yahoogroups.com>, Elektrofunkenstein
> >
> > > > <elektrofunkenstein@> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > [snip]
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > > I want to change ID's from MK-6
> > > > > presets, the 5th bank to make it play on Pure Phatt rom. I didn't
> > find
> > > > this
> > > > > conversion anywhere. Where can I download the newest one?
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> >
> >  
> >
>