Sysex through? XL7 filters Sysex messages?
2010-04-14 by lz303
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2010-04-14 by lz303
Hi, i have an Edirol PCR 500 masterkeyboard which also sends out sysex messages to my Roland Alpha Juno 1. I like to use the sequencer of my XL7 to trigger the Alpha Juno. That works perfect but sysex messages seems to be filtered out by the XL7. It doesn't work. Edirol to Alpha Juno 1:1 directly => All sysex messages work. Edirol to XL7 then through XL7 Midi-out to Alpha Juno => Sysex not working. In Cubase i had to disable sysex filter so i searched for that option on my XL7 without success. Any tips? Thanks...
2010-04-14 by Jack Pratt
Hi,
i have an Edirol PCR 500 masterkeyboard which also sends out sysex messages to my Roland Alpha Juno 1. I like to use the sequencer of my XL7 to trigger the Alpha Juno. That works perfect but sysex messages seems to be filtered out by the XL7. It doesn't work.
Edirol to Alpha Juno 1:1 directly => All sysex messages work.
Edirol to XL7 then through XL7 Midi-out to Alpha Juno => Sysex not working.
In Cubase i had to disable sysex filter so i searched for that option on my XL7 without success.
Any tips?
Thanks...
2010-04-15 by steve_the_composer
Jack Pratt gave a detailed response, but I need to clarify something: (1) Do you want to pass the Edirol PCR 500 sysex commands to the Juno through the XL-7? (2) Do you want to have the XL-7's sequencer send sysex to the Juno from an XL-7sequence/pattern? (3) Both? If, (1) I have never tried that, but I doubt its possible. (I do know that Command Stations do not pass through midi timong data.) You could send the Edirol PCR 500 midi data to both the XL-7 and the Juno (usually done with a midi router of some type), or you could merge the data from the XL-7 and the Edirol (again, with some sort of midi routing device). If (2), you would need to embed sysex data into a *.mid file and then upload the file (such as with E-Mu's e-loader) to the XL-7. If your control track is set to external (or both), I do believe the sysex will be transmited to the Juno. (Search the archives for "embedded sysex" and check the Files section.) I am not familiar with Cubase, but since you are using a computer, I am wondering how many midi ports you have and if Cubase can serve as your midi router? I have used SONAR for that purpose in combination with an old 8x8 MOTU midi router (the one that hooks up to the PC parallel port). The MOTU software lets me design routing and filtering presets. Hope this helps. --Steve --- In xl7@yahoogroups.com, "lz303" <lz303@...> wrote: > > Hi, > > i have an Edirol PCR 500 masterkeyboard which also sends out sysex messages to my Roland Alpha Juno 1. I like to use the sequencer of my XL7 to trigger the Alpha Juno. That works perfect but sysex messages seems to be filtered out by the XL7. It doesn't work. > > Edirol to Alpha Juno 1:1 directly => All sysex messages work. > Edirol to XL7 then through XL7 Midi-out to Alpha Juno => Sysex not working. > > In Cubase i had to disable sysex filter so i searched for that option on my XL7 without success. > > Any tips? > > Thanks... >
2010-04-15 by lz303
Hi, yes, both answers help a lot :) And yes, i want to pass the sysex commands through the XL7 to the Alpha Juno but also use the sequencer of the XL7. I will go for a midi merger. I will tell how it works after i got it... Thanks... --- In xl7@yahoogroups.com, "steve_the_composer" <smw-mail@...> wrote: > > Jack Pratt gave a detailed response, but I need to clarify something: > > (1) Do you want to pass the Edirol PCR 500 sysex commands to the Juno through the XL-7? (2) Do you want to have the XL-7's sequencer send sysex to the Juno from an XL-7sequence/pattern? (3) Both? > > If, (1) I have never tried that, but I doubt its possible. (I do know that Command Stations do not pass through midi timong data.) You could send the Edirol PCR 500 midi data to both the XL-7 and the Juno (usually done with a midi router of some type), or you could merge the data from the XL-7 and the Edirol (again, with some sort of midi routing device). > > If (2), you would need to embed sysex data into a *.mid file and then upload the file (such as with E-Mu's e-loader) to the XL-7. If your control track is set to external (or both), I do believe the sysex will be transmited to the Juno. (Search the archives for "embedded sysex" and check the Files section.) > > I am not familiar with Cubase, but since you are using a computer, I am wondering how many midi ports you have and if Cubase can serve as your midi router? I have used SONAR for that purpose in combination with an old 8x8 MOTU midi router (the one that hooks up to the PC parallel port). The MOTU software lets me design routing and filtering presets. > > Hope this helps. > > --Steve > > --- In xl7@yahoogroups.com, "lz303" <lz303@> wrote: > > > > Hi, > > > > i have an Edirol PCR 500 masterkeyboard which also sends out sysex messages to my Roland Alpha Juno 1. I like to use the sequencer of my XL7 to trigger the Alpha Juno. That works perfect but sysex messages seems to be filtered out by the XL7. It doesn't work. > > > > Edirol to Alpha Juno 1:1 directly => All sysex messages work. > > Edirol to XL7 then through XL7 Midi-out to Alpha Juno => Sysex not working. > > > > In Cubase i had to disable sysex filter so i searched for that option on my XL7 without success. > > > > Any tips? > > > > Thanks... > > >
2010-04-16 by Narcissus
2010-04-16 by Jack Pratt
2010-04-16 by Atom Smasher
On Fri, 16 Apr 2010, Jack Pratt wrote:
> As I mentioned I don't use my XL7 enough. E-MU did put lots of effort
> into these modules so its not surprising that they can do what most
> devices wouldn't be capable of.
================
i'm trying to grok the XL7. what's weird for me is that i can sit down in
front of a K5000 or FS1r, and with just a few minutes, some sounds in my
head, and the front panel controls, i can make those synths do what i
want... but the XL7 just laughs at me...
i bought it for the sequencer, but the synth is proving more than worthy.
both the synth and the sequencer are deeper than whale shit. this is one
box that the more i use it, the more obvious it is that i don't know
anything about it. it laughs at me while calling to me... it teases me
then gives me something i didn't even know i wanted... it ridicules my
lack of understanding then rewards me, sometimes with the fruits of
effort, sometimes with the seeds of knowledge...
the XL7 is, overall, much deeper than a K5000 or FS1r, and i am compelled
to master it, even if it makes my brain explode.
--
...atom
________________________
http://atom.smasher.org/
762A 3B98 A3C3 96C9 C6B7 582A B88D 52E4 D9F5 7808
-------------------------------------------------
"They have computers, and they may have
other weapons of mass destruction."
-- Janet Reno, US Attorney General,
27 Feb 19982010-04-16 by Bruce Manning
Atom, I don't comment too much, I have owned the XL-7, MP-7 and currently own the Proteus 2500 for sequencing and yes the synth part of these workstations is excellent as is the 300,000 note sequencer, the largest out there to my knowledge. I use the 2500 for the majority of my creations. It does sound like you might have more going on with your XL-7 though than I did, because these workstations never really laughed or ridiculed me. It sounds like you may be doing more than plugging in your cables to the unit. I am just kidding of course. Your description deserved a reply. Bruce ________________________________ From: Atom Smasher <atom@...> To: xl7@yahoogroups.com Sent: Fri, April 16, 2010 8:11:56 AM Subject: [xl7] XL7 is insane On Fri, 16 Apr 2010, Jack Pratt wrote: > As I mentioned I don't use my XL7 enough. E-MU did put lots of effort > into these modules so its not surprising that they can do what most > devices wouldn't be capable of. ============ ==== i'm trying to grok the XL7. what's weird for me is that i can sit down in front of a K5000 or FS1r, and with just a few minutes, some sounds in my head, and the front panel controls, i can make those synths do what i want... but the XL7 just laughs at me... i bought it for the sequencer, but the synth is proving more than worthy. both the synth and the sequencer are deeper than whale shit. this is one box that the more i use it, the more obvious it is that i don't know anything about it. it laughs at me while calling to me... it teases me then gives me something i didn't even know i wanted... it ridicules my lack of understanding then rewards me, sometimes with the fruits of effort, sometimes with the seeds of knowledge... the XL7 is, overall, much deeper than a K5000 or FS1r, and i am compelled to master it, even if it makes my brain explode. -- ...atom ____________ _________ ___ http://atom. smasher.org/ 762A 3B98 A3C3 96C9 C6B7 582A B88D 52E4 D9F5 7808 ------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- - "They have computers, and they may have other weapons of mass destruction. " -- Janet Reno, US Attorney General, 27 Feb 1998
2010-04-16 by Mauricio Balma
We'll I mostly agree with you in the description of deepness. But if you read on forums, you won't find too much people talking about how complex is to create a patch with 12 layers, reset to zero all the patchcord sources and destinations, and then, starting to invent your tweaks, your own chords, one by one, to program crossfading between layers, programming MidiA Knob to decrease the volume of the layer1 while is increasing the volume of the layer2, while is increasing the rate of the LFO of the layer3 while decreasing the filter of layer 4, and then, go to program MidiB and recreate multiples morphings for all the instruments inide a patch. Or to create pseudo arppegios with the start delay of the wave, or going weird when linking the multiples LFOS versions to the wave start. Or to compose an arpeggio that jumps from zones to zones of instruments, and manipulate the pitch of each instrument and each note of the arpeggio, with 16 knobs programmend to change the transposition of the pitch. No sir, most of the command station owners, does not know what they have in their hands. I heard a lot of guys making versus threads XL7 vs MPC, MoPhat vs Microkorg for hip hop. Etc. Nobody asks about the patchcord section, or how to program variations of mute/unmute tracks of the super beats section controlled by the knobs on a user patch. I own a decent setup of synths with a good name lile Ensoniq Fizmo, Vsynth, Yamaha EX5 or Waldorf Q, and people laughs at me, when I say command station is my favorite synth. ________________________________ From: Atom Smasher <atom@smasher.org> To: xl7@yahoogroups.com Sent: Fri, April 16, 2010 6:11:56 AM Subject: [xl7] XL7 is insane On Fri, 16 Apr 2010, Jack Pratt wrote: > As I mentioned I don't use my XL7 enough. E-MU did put lots of effort > into these modules so its not surprising that they can do what most > devices wouldn't be capable of. ============ ==== i'm trying to grok the XL7. what's weird for me is that i can sit down in front of a K5000 or FS1r, and with just a few minutes, some sounds in my head, and the front panel controls, i can make those synths do what i want... but the XL7 just laughs at me... i bought it for the sequencer, but the synth is proving more than worthy. both the synth and the sequencer are deeper than whale shit. this is one box that the more i use it, the more obvious it is that i don't know anything about it. it laughs at me while calling to me... it teases me then gives me something i didn't even know i wanted... it ridicules my lack of understanding then rewards me, sometimes with the fruits of effort, sometimes with the seeds of knowledge... the XL7 is, overall, much deeper than a K5000 or FS1r, and i am compelled to master it, even if it makes my brain explode. -- ...atom ____________ _________ ___ http://atom. smasher.org/ 762A 3B98 A3C3 96C9 C6B7 582A B88D 52E4 D9F5 7808 ------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- - "They have computers, and they may have other weapons of mass destruction. " -- Janet Reno, US Attorney General, 27 Feb 1998
2010-04-16 by lz303
Hmmm...sorry to disappoint you but in my case it is definately not working. I tried both Midi outs (A+B) , i changed every possible parameter in the midi menu (eg midi merge, both 'on'). Sysex is definately filtered out or ignored or something else. Like i said before: Masterkeyboard which sends sysex commands to control cutoff freq and resonance and so on ... to Alpha juno directly or even through a Korg KMS30 works perfect. Every sysex command works. Masterkeyboard to XL7 then through either midi port A or B out...i can play notes, i mean the Alpha juno plays as i t should but the sysex commands are not functioning anymore. No reaction when i turn a knob... --- In xl7@yahoogroups.com, Jack Pratt <woodsworth1@...> wrote: > > That's good to know. > > As I mentioned I don't use my XL7 enough. E-MU did put lots of effort into these modules so its not surprising that they can do what most devices wouldn't be capable of. > > Thanks! > > > > > ________________________________ > From: Narcissus <narcissus05@...> > To: xl7@yahoogroups.com > Sent: Fri, April 16, 2010 6:11:08 PM > Subject: Re: [xl7] Re: Sysex through? XL7 filters Sysex messages? > > > In fact, the Command Station IS a MIDI Merger. If you activate (in the MIDI Menu) the "merge midi in to out" you can even choose which of the 2 midi outs carries the mix of incoming data and sequenced one. The CS shouldn't filter anything, even sysex, when one if its outputs is used as a MIDI THRU. > > No keyboard sporting a MIDI THRU would do it, and it would be a terrible flaw in the design >
2010-04-16 by Atom Smasher
On Fri, 16 Apr 2010, Mauricio Balma wrote:
> We'll I mostly agree with you in the description of deepness.
>
> But if you read on forums, you won't find too much people talking about
> how complex is to create a patch with 12 layers, reset to zero all the
> patchcord sources and destinations, and then, starting to invent your
> tweaks, your own chords, one by one, to program crossfading between
> layers, programming MidiA Knob to decrease the volume of the layer1
> while is increasing the volume of the layer2, while is increasing the
> rate of the LFO of the layer3 while decreasing the filter of layer 4,
> and then, go to program MidiB and recreate multiples morphings for all
> the instruments inide a patch.
============
that's what i'm talkin' about!!!
try doing that on, well, just about anything else!
> Or to create pseudo arppegios with the start delay of the wave, or going
> weird when linking the multiples LFOS versions to the wave start.
=============
huh??
> Or to compose an arpeggio that jumps from zones to zones of instruments,
> and manipulate the pitch of each instrument and each note of the
> arpeggio, with 16 knobs programmend to change the transposition of the
> pitch.
============
wow. that hadn't occurred to me...
> No sir, most of the command station owners, does not know what they have
> in their hands.
>
> I heard a lot of guys making versus threads XL7 vs MPC, MoPhat vs
> Microkorg for hip hop. Etc. Nobody asks about the patchcord section,
> or how to program variations of mute/unmute tracks of the super beats
> section controlled by the knobs on a user patch.
============
one of the things that was most immediately apparent to me, when i first
played with the XL7, is that even if this thing didn't have any sample
ROM, just using it with analog type synth waves (square, saw, pulse, etc)
it would be a very capable synth.
> I own a decent setup of synths with a good name lile Ensoniq Fizmo,
> Vsynth, Yamaha EX5 or Waldorf Q, and people laughs at me, when I say
> command station is my favorite synth.
==============
i won't laugh. among my synths are a K5000 and an FS1r, which most people
consider way too deep to even use musically (and people are often
horrified when i tell them i don't use a software editor)... i see them as
fairly simple synths with somewhat unintuitive synth engines. the XL7 (et
al) is perfectly usable as "just a ROMpler" or "just a simple synth" but
below the surface it just keeps getting deeper and deeper... that's what
i'm loving about it, even though it's driving me mad.
btw mauricio, feel free to write more tutorials... i've got your old ones
saved into a file and it seems like every time i go through it i learn
something new!
--
...atom
________________________
http://atom.smasher.org/
762A 3B98 A3C3 96C9 C6B7 582A B88D 52E4 D9F5 7808
-------------------------------------------------
"If Jesus had been killed 20 years ago, Catholic school
children would be wearing little electric chairs around
their necks instead of crosses"
-- Lenny Bruce2010-04-16 by Jack Pratt
Hmmm...sorry to disappoint you but in my case it is definately not working. I tried both Midi outs (A+B) , i changed every possible parameter in the midi menu (eg midi merge, both 'on').
Sysex is definately filtered out or ignored or something else.
Like i said before:
Masterkeyboard which sends sysex commands to control cutoff freq and resonance and so on ... to Alpha juno directly or even through a Korg KMS30 works perfect. Every sysex command works.
Masterkeyboard to XL7 then through either midi port A or B out...i can play notes, i mean the Alpha juno plays as i t should but the sysex commands are not functioning anymore. No reaction when i turn a knob...
--- In xl7@yahoogroups. com, Jack Pratt wrote:
>
> That's good to know.
>
> As I mentioned I don't use
my XL7 enough. E-MU did put lots of effort into these modules so its not surprising that they can do what most devices wouldn't be capable of.
>
> Thanks!
>
>
>
>
> ____________ _________ _________ __
> From: Narcissus
> To: xl7@yahoogroups. com
> Sent: Fri, April 16, 2010 6:11:08 PM
> Subject: Re: [xl7] Re: Sysex through? XL7 filters Sysex messages?
>
>
> In fact, the Command Station IS a MIDI Merger. If you activate (in the MIDI Menu) the "merge midi in to out" you can even choose which of the 2 midi outs carries the mix of incoming data and sequenced one. The CS shouldn't filter anything, even sysex, when one if its outputs is used as a MIDI THRU.
>
> No keyboard sporting a MIDI THRU would do it, and it would
be a terrible flaw in the design
>
2010-04-16 by Mauricio Balma
The pseudo arppegio stuff: You have notice that you can delay the start of the sample and sync it to the BPM. That's no common on any synth. Well, fantom has it, but it's a pain to access it... PATCH 1: Layer 1: start 0 Layer 2: start 1/16 Layer 3 start 1/6 Layer 4 start 1/8 Now, you must use another patch location, PATCH 2: Layer 1 start 1/3 Layer 2 start 1/4 Layer 3 start.... *forgot the value! Layer 4 start 1/2 Make the layers monophonic groups, and put all these on the same group, so they will exclude between them. Now, on the patch link section, you must subordinate the PATCH 2 into the PATCH 1 or viceversa. .... There, you have an 1/16 arpeggio that plays 8 waveforms, one after another. You can go further and convert each waveform into a single note, playing with the transpose of each one of them individually. And you can program 16 different ways to tweak the transpose of each note of that pseudo arpeggio. go to the patch cord section, and erase all the patch cords. No, for example, program knobs lie MID A layer1---- +12 transponse layer 2 ---- -3 transponse layer 3 ---- +17 transponse lauer 4 ----- -12 transponse Voila! when you move the midi A knob, the arpeggio notes, change. Do that with the 16 knobs....... je je je, that;s complexity, isn't it???? You can go even further, program different transponses for the PATCH 2 that plays notes 5,6,7 and 8 of my pseudoarpeggio. And yo can go even further. How much notes can you program on a user arppegio??? 32 and you can specifiy the length of each note, the repetition, legato or separated mode.... etc. Create an arpeggio, of the length of 1/2 each note. Sounds toooooo long or slow arppegio, but not, because each time it plays a note of a 1/2 length, it will also play the 8 notes of the internal pseudo arppegio inside the patch. So there you have an arppegio of 256 notes, and 16 controllers to program the notes played inside it. Yes, command station is insane. Is a shame that only a few persons appreciate how creative this instrument can be. LOVE its programmation design, in the same way, I hate some things it has. Saving your patches is a shit. Most interesting part. ________________________________ From: Atom Smasher <atom@...> To: xl7@yahoogroups.com Sent: Fri, April 16, 2010 2:55:13 PM Subject: Re: [xl7] XL7 is insane On Fri, 16 Apr 2010, Mauricio Balma wrote: > We'll I mostly agree with you in the description of deepness. > > But if you read on forums, you won't find too much people talking about > how complex is to create a patch with 12 layers, reset to zero all the > patchcord sources and destinations, and then, starting to invent your > tweaks, your own chords, one by one, to program crossfading between > layers, programming MidiA Knob to decrease the volume of the layer1 > while is increasing the volume of the layer2, while is increasing the > rate of the LFO of the layer3 while decreasing the filter of layer 4, > and then, go to program MidiB and recreate multiples morphings for all > the instruments inide a patch. ============ that's what i'm talkin' about!!! try doing that on, well, just about anything else! > Or to create pseudo arppegios with the start delay of the wave, or going > weird when linking the multiples LFOS versions to the wave start. ============ = huh?? > Or to compose an arpeggio that jumps from zones to zones of instruments, > and manipulate the pitch of each instrument and each note of the > arpeggio, with 16 knobs programmend to change the transposition of the > pitch. ============ wow. that hadn't occurred to me... > No sir, most of the command station owners, does not know what they have > in their hands. > > I heard a lot of guys making versus threads XL7 vs MPC, MoPhat vs > Microkorg for hip hop. Etc. Nobody asks about the patchcord section, > or how to program variations of mute/unmute tracks of the super beats > section controlled by the knobs on a user patch. ============ one of the things that was most immediately apparent to me, when i first played with the XL7, is that even if this thing didn't have any sample ROM, just using it with analog type synth waves (square, saw, pulse, etc) it would be a very capable synth. > I own a decent setup of synths with a good name lile Ensoniq Fizmo, > Vsynth, Yamaha EX5 or Waldorf Q, and people laughs at me, when I say > command station is my favorite synth. ============ == i won't laugh. among my synths are a K5000 and an FS1r, which most people consider way too deep to even use musically (and people are often horrified when i tell them i don't use a software editor)... i see them as fairly simple synths with somewhat unintuitive synth engines. the XL7 (et al) is perfectly usable as "just a ROMpler" or "just a simple synth" but below the surface it just keeps getting deeper and deeper... that's what i'm loving about it, even though it's driving me mad. btw mauricio, feel free to write more tutorials... i've got your old ones saved into a file and it seems like every time i go through it i learn something new! -- ...atom ____________ _________ ___ http://atom. smasher.org/ 762A 3B98 A3C3 96C9 C6B7 582A B88D 52E4 D9F5 7808 ------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- - "If Jesus had been killed 20 years ago, Catholic school children would be wearing little electric chairs around their necks instead of crosses" -- Lenny Bruce
2010-04-17 by steve_the_composer
Mauricio, thanks for posting your earlier suggestions on preset design and the specifics of your multiple waveform arpeggio technique. I can't want to make some time to try it out. It definitely pushes the creative envelope!!!! Others might also be interested in a recent discussion in the P2K group about using loop controls in the patchcords. Based on that I recently discovered that SRetrigger lets you retrigger the just the sample while the envelopes, other patchcords, and knobs shape the sound--all in sync to the midi clock! Even with just one layer at work, changing the ROM instrument on that layer creates some neat/wild effects. I am now thinking (thanks to your excellent suggestion) of doing the 12 layer technique you describe but with SRetrigger. Hmmmm. Maybe eventually I will try it with the delay drive arpeggio!!!!! Again, thanks for sharing your creative sound designs. --Steve
2010-04-17 by just john
--- In xl7@yahoogroups.com, "steve_the_composer" <smw-mail@...> wrote: > I am now thinking (thanks to your excellent suggestion) > of doing the 12 layer technique you describe but with > SRetrigger. Hmmmm. Maybe eventually I will try it with > the delay drive arpeggio!!!!! > > Again, thanks for sharing your creative sound designs. > I'm not really a slave of Taco Bell, but I can't help mentally classifying anything involving "12 layer technique" etc. as a Burrito Patch. (Just in case anybody was searching for a new term.)
2010-04-17 by D F Tweedie
Of course it's only the "7 Layer Burrito" and anyone who doesn't go to Del Taco instead of Taco Bell ... if they have the chance ... is seriously suspect ... but all snide quibbles aside:
Brilliant!
DF
--- On Sat, 4/17/10, just john <just_john_jj@...> wrote:
From: just john <just_john_jj@yahoo.com>
Subject: [xl7] Re: XL7 is insane
To: xl7@yahoogroups.com
Date: Saturday, April 17, 2010, 10:54 AM
--- In xl7@yahoogroups. com, "steve_the_composer " <smw-mail@.. .> wrote:
> I am now thinking (thanks to your excellent suggestion)
> of doing the 12 layer technique you describe but with
> SRetrigger. Hmmmm. Maybe eventually I will try it with
> the delay drive arpeggio!!!! !
>
> Again, thanks for sharing your creative sound designs.
>
I'm not really a slave of Taco Bell, but I can't help mentally classifying anything involving "12 layer technique" etc. as a Burrito Patch.
(Just in case anybody was searching for a new term.)2010-04-17 by Atom Smasher
On Sat, 17 Apr 2010, steve_the_composer wrote:
> Others might also be interested in a recent discussion in the P2K group
> about using loop controls in the patchcords.
===============
thanks for sharing...!
but this brings up another point about why it's so hard to fully grok the
XL7... the sequencer is shared between the XL7, MP7, PX7 and P2500. the
synth engine is almost the same the from at least as early the audity-2000
(in some ways as early as the P1) up to the P2000 and all of it's
multi-colored variants, command stations and P2500. so we're talking about
what, a dozen or so synths? with at least as many mailing lists? and most
of the traffic is probably about the same basic operations, "which ROM
should i get", and other stuff that's a far cry from *advanced* synthesis
techniques...
so, short of signing up for 10-20 mailing lists and trawling the archives
(it's no fun trawling the archives in yahoo), is there a better way to get
consolidated info about programming these beasts?
i'm *almost* tempted to start a new mailing list that focuses on advanced
synthesis (and sequencing) in these beasts... but if the problem is to too
many mailing lists, the solution probably isn't creating another mailing
list.
--
...atom
________________________
http://atom.smasher.org/
762A 3B98 A3C3 96C9 C6B7 582A B88D 52E4 D9F5 7808
-------------------------------------------------
"I would rather fail in a cause that will ultimately triumph
than triumph in a cause that will ultimately fail."
-- Woodrow Wilson2010-04-18 by steve_the_composer
I share a love for advanced sound design and performance concepts. There is no need to start another group unless you want to--which I would probably join. There used to be a group of various E-Mu users meeting to discuss patchcords and other things at a Yahoo group called IBGeek (I think). I has had no activity for quite a while, but there are some discussions there if you want to take a look. Also, recently I have been hanging out at a site (with various forums and a streaming radio station) devoted to experimental and electronic music in a wide wariety of styles and using a wide variety of instruments (such as many DIY modular synth builders, laptop performers, etc.) There are at least 3 of us there with E-Mu gear who could probably very easily get into advanced concepts using the E-Mu synth engine. One of the things that I have been insipred by could be called cross-platform electronic music techniques. For example, I liked the kind of music done by some DIYers who make music by turning knobs on electronic circuits. So I developed techniques to do something similar with a usb keyboard (with knobs and faders) and my old Casio VZ-8m synth (interactive Phase Distortion). Similarly, I find that ideas related to using real patch cords in modular synths overlap with E-Mu's virtual patchcords. (Having worked with a Moog synthesizer early on, that's one of my attractions to the E-Mu synth engine.) Anyhow, those are two options for places to have discoussions on advanced sound design and live soundtechniques discussions if you didn't want to start yet another new group. --Steve --- In xl7@yahoogroups.com, Atom Smasher <atom@...> wrote: > > On Sat, 17 Apr 2010, steve_the_composer wrote: > > > Others might also be interested in a recent discussion in the P2K group > > about using loop controls in the patchcords. > =============== > > thanks for sharing...! > > but this brings up another point about why it's so hard to fully grok the > XL7... the sequencer is shared between the XL7, MP7, PX7 and P2500. the > synth engine is almost the same the from at least as early the audity-2000 > (in some ways as early as the P1) up to the P2000 and all of it's > multi-colored variants, command stations and P2500. so we're talking about > what, a dozen or so synths? with at least as many mailing lists? and most > of the traffic is probably about the same basic operations, "which ROM > should i get", and other stuff that's a far cry from *advanced* synthesis > techniques... > > so, short of signing up for 10-20 mailing lists and trawling the archives > (it's no fun trawling the archives in yahoo), is there a better way to get > consolidated info about programming these beasts? > > i'm *almost* tempted to start a new mailing list that focuses on advanced > synthesis (and sequencing) in these beasts... but if the problem is to too > many mailing lists, the solution probably isn't creating another mailing > list. > > > -- > ...atom > > ________________________ > http://atom.smasher.org/ > 762A 3B98 A3C3 96C9 C6B7 582A B88D 52E4 D9F5 7808 > ------------------------------------------------- > > "I would rather fail in a cause that will ultimately triumph > than triumph in a cause that will ultimately fail." > -- Woodrow Wilson >
2010-04-20 by David Cunningham
Hello Group, I've been watching for quite some time and when these "advanced techniques" appear, it is like Christmas. I would suggest we keep everything within this group so ideas and lessons don't get scattered. My $0.02 worth less taxes and service charges of course. SiProphet
2010-04-20 by steve_the_composer
I am comfortable with this, but you should also check out the P2K group for recent discussions of advanced techniques (as well as archives). --Steve --- In xl7@yahoogroups.com, "David Cunningham" <siprophet0@...> wrote: > > Hello Group, > > > > > > I've been watching for quite some time and when these "advanced techniques" > appear, it is like Christmas. I would suggest we keep everything within > this group so ideas and lessons don't get scattered. My $0.02 worth less > taxes and service charges of course. > > > > SiProphet >
2010-04-20 by Mauricio Balma
I have placed on the web several tips-tricks to program the command station. However, in my case, language is an obstacle to fully share some of my thoughts or findings over this great synthesizers line. I repost some of them, that I just found on the web, these ones are old but still working. : http://www.icrawl.org/407663612-tips-for-the-xl7-by-mauricio-balma TIPS FOR PROGRAMMING CORDS ON THE EMU COMMAND STATION: One of the most interesting features on the EMU romplers on the patch edit section, is the cords function. Cords function allows you to link certain patch parameters, to create interesting combinations, and control those linkswith the programmable knobs. I present the most simple ideas trying to be creative with the patch cord programming, these are just a few of several routes I tried to explore...others are a headache to write here for a non english speakerThe cords work with the SOURCE/DESTINATION concept. On the EMU romplers, If I want to control the volume of the sound with the key sensivity, I have to link the VELOCITY parameter (source) with the AMP VOLUME (destination) , so, the cord could look like this: VEL+/- ----> AMP VOL + 96. Creating a wide of phat effect using 4 layers with the same instrument:On the patch programming section, you can specify the start point of the patch, from a range of 0~127.You can assign the sample start point to a knob.But the interesting point is to assign a different start point for each one of the layers, using the same instrument on the 4 layers... Assign a lead sound to the layer 1, and with the copy layer function, copy it to the locations layer2, layer3 and layer4.Then, go to the cords screen, and create this cord: Layer 1MIDI A -----> Start Point + 5Layer 2MIDI A -----> Start Point + 10Layer 3MIDI A -----> Start Point +15Layer 4MIDI A -----> Start Point +20 Try moving the Knob A, and listen carefully the effect that produces when the four layers loop and start at different times each one. A similar effect can be produced, using the knob B to control the fine pitch: Layer 1MIDI B -----> Fine tune +1layer 2MIDI B -----> Fine tune -1Layer 3MIDI B -----> Fine tune +2Layer 4MIDI B -----> Fine tune -2 Now, activate the chorus function , assigning the same parameter to each one of the layers, program the third cord with these parameters: Layer 1MIDI C ------> chrsamount +20Layer 2MIDI C ------> chrsamount +40Layer 3MIDI C ------> chrsamount +60Layer 4MIDI C ------> chrsamount +80 A weird sample loop effect with the GAIN4X parameter,GAIN4X can be source or destination. It's at both sides. GAIN4X amplifies, if you can program it correctly. CORD 4: (For all the layers)GAIN4x -----> Sloop +127CORD 5: (for all the layers)QUantize ----> GAIN4X +0 CORD 6 (fo all the layers)MIDI D -----> CORD5Amount + 127 With these three cords, you will link the gain4x to the sloop. But this will only be activated, when you link something to it from the source and put GAIN4X again but as a destination . You leave this cord in 0, and then, you have to assign a MIDI controller to this 2nd cord, in order to control the amount of both cord programmations. Creating a soft RANDOM effect for alive sounds. On this cord, we'll play with the LFOS, and link it to the ampvolume of the instruments. You can use parameters a little bit different for each one of the layers to create a more unpredictable effect. this is useful for pads:Program on each one of the layers, on the LFO screen, a LFO1: RANDOM effect. Running free Then, go to the CORDS section:CORD 1: LFO1 +/- ----> Lag0IN +100CORD 2LAG0 ----> QUantize +50CORD 3Quantize ----> AMPVOL +25 If you want to control the random effect instead assign a frozen parameter on the CORD 3, you can put the CORD 3 on 0, and then, using fourth CORD to assign a MIDI KNOB to control the CORD 3 on a specified range.There are several ways to create this effect, and using a different one for each layer, will enhance the variety of the patch.CORD 1WHITE(or pink) ----> Quantize + 127CORD 2Quantize ----> AmpVelo + 0 CORD 3MIDI F ----> CORD2Amount + 127 Instead AMPVelo, you can use the filterfrequency. b) TIPS FOR ENHANCING THE INTERACTION BETWEEN A PATCH AND ITS ASSIGNED USER ARPEGGIO:The EMU arpeggiator, doesn't allow to record the arpeggio notes on its sequencer (command stations and proteus 2500). This is something rigid, an inconvenience when you want to change some notes on the arpeggio, and get bored of hearing the same sequence of notes time after time.But with this method, you can change certain notes of an arpeggio just moving the knobs. Let's create a USER ARPEGGIO, on the user location 01, with these parameters.. . this is just a simple example, but you can make it longer, with the 32 available positions for each arp: USER ARPEGGIO 01, velo: velocity trans: transponse or coarse dur: duration or lenght of the note.Note 1 velo 55 trans 0, dur 1/16 Note 2 velo 75 trans +5, dur 1/8 Note 3 velo 95 trans +2, dur 1/16 Note 4 velo 105 trans 0, dur 1/16 Note 5 velo 70 trans+12, dur 1/8 Note 6 velo 110 trans 0 dur 1/8 Note 7 velo 50 trans +2 dur 1/16 Note 8 velo 85 trans +5 dur 1/8 1. Go to the patch edition screen. use an "arp template" sound, that one that has default values. Using the COPY LAYER function on the Save menu, copy the layer1, to the locations 2, 3 and 4.2. Go to the velocity zone programmation screen. Input these values:Layer 1 velo range 01~60 Layer 2 velo range 61~80 Layer 3 velo range 81~100 Layer 4 velo range 101~1273. Go to the CORD programmation screen. Input these values: CORD1 layer 2, 3 and 4 desactivated Layer 1: Knob A ----> Pitch +5 CORD2 layer 1, 3 and 4 desactivated Layer 2: Knob B ----> Pitch -5CORD3 layer1, 2 and 4 desactivated Layer 3: Knob C ----> pitch +2CORD4 layer1, 2 and 3 desactivated Layer 4: Knob D ----> pitch +7 4. Go to the ARP programmation screen, and assign to this patch, the USER ARP that we programmed before.Move the knob A. You will notice that only the notes 1 and 7 are affected by the knob movement, changing its transponse on +5Move the knob B. You will notice that only the notes 2 and 5 are affected by the knob movement, changing its transponse on -5Move the knob C. You will notice that only the notes 3 and 8 are affected by the knob movement, changing its transponse on +2Move the knob D. You will notice that only the notes 4 and 6 are affected by the knob movement, changing its transponse on +7 You can program even more complex changes, activating all the layers on each cord, and assign them a different pitch change for each one of the layers, on just a single knob movement. Also, instead modifying the pitch, you could program a specific filter freq for a single note, with a knob movement, ar the attact time, to create a reverse effect on certain notes inside the arpeggio, panning changes, or fading and bringing in and out some specific notes. Use your brain with this,.... c) A TIP FOR CREATING DINAMIC PATTERNS ON COMMAND STATIONSThe sequencer of the command station is simple beatiful. the most intuitive I ever use, despide its low resolution (364). Is one of the greatest tools for music composition on hardware devices, specially for dance scene controlling other devices with MIDI.There is a way to create dinamic patterns, using the Multitrack function. As you know, most of the sequencers, have a separation between the track number, and the MIDI channel number.By default, the sequencer track number, coincides with the MIDI track number. but you can send by MIDI, for example, the track 1A, throught the MIDI channel 5 or 6 or whatever... or play the sound of the track 3 with the notes recorded on the track 1, but this makes no sense if you don't need it.Taking advantage of the MULTITRACK function, you can create patterns, that suddenly can change the parameters of all its tracks, all at the same time, just pressing a track button. Let's use the track #1, as the multitrack channel.Record on the track #2, a kick patch, to guide the beat.Record on the track #3, a hi/hatRecord on the track #4, a clap or a snare sound.Record on the track #5, a bassRecord on the track #6, a synth leadRecord on the track #7, a pad Record on the track #8, a sfx patch. This is the complex part: on track 1 go to the MIDI assignment screen, where you can designate if the MIDI is internal, external, both or none. Assign the MIDI channel of this track #1, as the track #2. Now you'll have the sound of the track 2, the kick patch, on the track #1. Record some change on it. A slow reduction of the filter, reducing the brightness of the kick. Or mute it at the last measure of the pattern, to create a bridge. SAVE ITNow, Assign the MIDI channel of this track 1 as the track #3. Now you'll have the sound of the track 3, the hi/hat, on the track #1Record some change on it. A reduction of the gate time, or increase its volume, or an aleatory panning. SAVE IT.Now, assign the MIDI channel of this track 1 as the track #4. You already have on that track, information that will affect tracks 2 and 3, you'll keep overwriting it, but that information will remain there. Record some change to the clap or snare sound, on the track 1. An addition of more snare notes at the end of the pattern, or a variation on the frequency. SAVE IT NOw, assig the MIDI channel of this track 1, as the track #5, the bass track. A change on the transponse with the crappy touchpad of the command station will be cool. SAVE IT. You have the idea....? Keep doing this if you want to, with all the tracks. Record on the track 1 as many changes as you want, for all the rest of the tracks. Now, the important part: with the modwheel, change the MIDI track assignment of this track 1A, as "MULTI A channel". You have to move the modwheel completely to the left until the MultiA word appears.... SAVE the pattern with this track 1A MUTED!!!! Now play the pattern, with all the tracks activated, except track 1. And then, activate the track 1. All the tracks will change according to your programmations on the track 1. The kick will decrease its filter or be muted at the end of the pattern, the hi/hat will become shorter, the bass will change its pitch, etc. etc...great for bridges, great for controlling several tracks simultaneously, great for changing preset parameters, without having to create a new patch and saving it, consument patch memory. Great for enhancing your realtime performing. hope to be helpful. This is valious information, if you love your command station.... d)GIVING A HUMAN FEELING TO YOUR COMMAND STATION PATTERNS Sometimes, patterns created throught step-by-rec method, results in non-human, boring or repetitive sequences. Recording music with exact perfect timing gives an unnatural feeling to the music, because 100% accuracy isn't normal. When a human foot hits a kick drum, it's leading the tempo of the song, but it has diminute, small innacuracies on the timing. I'm unable to repeat that kick at the exact moment each time when pressing the pedal with my foot. There will be differences of milliseconds, sometimes earlier, sometimes later than the exact 4/4. Also, there is a variation on the strenght of each kick, sometimes, I press a little bit harder, others, softer than expected. These little variations can be almost imperceptible on a good drummer. But the brain can perceive this little differents when listened on a consecutive and acumulative way. And that's the reason why we get bored of listening the same exact loop during several repetitions, because the brain recognizes that the pattern is always the same, with no variations, so, there is no more information to process, only the same picture again and again. We lose interest on the melody. ________________________________ From: David Cunningham <siprophet0@...> To: xl7@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tue, April 20, 2010 12:26:30 AM Subject: [xl7] Re: XL7 is insane Hello Group, I’ve been watching for quite some time and when these “advanced techniques” appear, it is like Christmas. I would suggest we keep everything within this group so ideas and lessons don’t get scattered. My $0.02 worth less taxes and service charges of course. SiProphet
2010-04-20 by Mauricio Balma
More: There are certain process that we can execute in order to give a natural feeling to our music, specifically, the compositions with the EMU command station. When we record a bassline, with any process diferent than realtime rercording with the Quantizer OFF, the notes will be aligned to strict tempo locations after finalizing the recording. This is the result of a recording on realtime, but quantizing the results. Recording on step by rec or GRID will result even in more strict and rigid parameters. This example, is a recording of 16 notes on 1 mesuer, using a resolution of 1/16, according to the EMU Command Station sequencer: Location 01-01-000 velo 120 gate time 70 01-01-096 velo 100 gate time 70 01-01-192 velo 110 gate time 75 01-01-288 velo 100 gate time 75 01-02-000 velo 120 gate time 95 01-02-096 velo 120 gate time 95 01-02-192 velo 120 gate time 95 01-02-288 velo 100 gate time 99 01-03-000 velo 112 gate time 70 01-03-096 velo 127 gate time 99 01-03-192 velo 120 gate time 99 01-03-288 velo 127 gate time 99 01-04-000 velo 100 gate time 96 01-04-096 velo 112 gate time 96 01-04-192 velo 112 gate time 70 01-04-288 velo 127 gate time 99 The programmation of the patch also plays an important role on the patterns' overall sound. So, be sure to include in all your patches, random variations or sensitivity to the key pressure. These cords will help a lot in our goal: give a nature and human feeling to our patterns: CORD 1 AmpEnvelope +/- ----> Ampvol +100 CORD 2 Velo +/- -----> Ampvol +75 CORD 3 Keyrandom1 -----> Fine tune -3 CORD 4 Keyrandom2 ----->Ampvol +3 CORD 5 Velo + ------> Fine tune +8 On CORDS 3 & 4, the value is small because we don't want to cause an excesive effect of aleatory values, just a little bit. On the natural kicks, for example, if you press harder the pedal, the pitch of the kick sound will rise a little bit, so we try to emulate this, linking the key velocity with a increase on the fine tune. The harder you press the pad, the higher the fine pitch. That's what we tried on the CORD 5. Now, let's change the 16 notes table example. Remember: The range of velocity is 1~127 The resolution is 384 per kick We have 16 notes. Why repeat exactly the same value on each note? why repeat a value twice, when we have more than 16 velo options to choose? Let's apply this concept, let's create patterns inside patterns. On the first note, never start at 01-01-000. Give a break to the sequencer, some milliseconds at the beggining of the loop. Let's use 16 different values, on the gate, the velo and the start time. Don't repeat the same value twice inside one measure. don't understimate micro variations on values. Your brain will perceive them, and will find pleasure on them. 1) Modifying the start time 01-01-003 velo 120 gate time 70 +3 01-01-095 velo 100 gate time 70 -1 01-01-198 velo 110 gate time 75 +2 01-01-292 velo 100 gate time 75 +4 01-01-381 velo 120 gate time 95 -2 01-02-096 velo 120 gate time 95 = 01-02-189 velo 120 gate time 95 -3 01-02-293 velo 100 gate time 99 +5 01-03-383 velo 112 gate time 70 -1 01-03-092 velo 127 gate time 99 -4 01-03-198 velo 120 gate time 99 +6 01-03-283 velo 127 gate time 99 -5 01-04-007 velo 100 gate time 96 +7 01-04-104 velo 112 gate time 96 +8 01-04-201 velo 112 gate time 70 +9 01-04-282 velo 127 gate time 99 -6 So, now realize that all the start times are different. This is not absolutely necessary, a couple of values could coincide, that will be natural too???? (repetition, is also a form of change....Brian Eno). We are moving in a range of -6 minimum, and +9 maximun. If we go to far away on unnacuraccy timing, you could lose the tempo. Modifying the velo> 01-01-003 velo 118 gate time 70 01-01-095 velo 98 gate time 70 01-01-198 velo 108 gate time 75 01-01-292 velo 100 gate time 75 01-01-381 velo 110 gate time 95 01-02-096 velo 120 gate time 95 01-02-189 velo 95 gate time 95 01-02-293 velo 105 gate time 99 01-03-383 velo 115 gate time 70 01-03-092 velo 102 gate time 99 01-03-198 velo 112 gate time 99 01-03-283 velo 122 gate time 99 01-04-007 velo 101 gate time 96 01-04-104 velo 111 gate time 96 01-04-201 velo 91 gate time 70 01-04-282 velo 121 gate time 99 Now, on the velo time, we applied a similar concept. But not the exact concept. You'll notice that I didn't repeated a single value, but I kept a pattern: there are groups of three, that end with the same value. The first group, 118,98 and 108, ends with 8, and goes on a range of 20. The same with the 2nd group of three notes, 100,110 and 120. Use your imagination. Find order inside the chaos. Find patterns between a group of values that seem to have no relation between them. (for a good reference about the world of patterns on the nature and mathemathics, watch "PI, faith in chaos") For example, on a group of numbers, that seems to be aleatory, you can hide a code of order. Use, for example, the FIBONNACCI numbers, or PRIME numbers, inside a group of random values, of, for example, velocity range numbers. some Fibonnacci numbers: 1,2,3,5,8,13,21,34,55,89, On a sequence of 16 notes, on the notes, 1,2,5,,8 and 13, use a velocity on a range between 80 and 90. Just an example.... Could you find a pattern on a sequence of notes like this one???? Maybe you won't find it in a concious way, but be sure, you're subconcious will appreciate it. some Prime numbers: 1,2,3,5,7,11,13,17,23,29 Apply prime numbers, on the start time, from backwards, to forwards, using only the 1,2,3,5,7,11,13 and 23 prime numbers.... There are infinite ways, to create hidden ordered patterns inside values that seem have no sense of order. In this way, going deep inside the mathematic world of music, you can create very complex harmonies, that will sound fresh each time you play them, because your brain will discover something new, from time to time.... ________________________________ From: steve_the_composer <smw-mail@...> To: xl7@...m Sent: Tue, April 20, 2010 3:59:33 AM Subject: [xl7] Re: XL7 is insane I am comfortable with this, but you should also check out the P2K group for recent discussions of advanced techniques (as well as archives). --Steve --- In xl7@yahoogroups. com, "David Cunningham" <siprophet0@ ...> wrote: > > Hello Group, > > > > > > I've been watching for quite some time and when these "advanced techniques" > appear, it is like Christmas. I would suggest we keep everything within > this group so ideas and lessons don't get scattered. My $0.02 worth less > taxes and service charges of course. > > > > SiProphet >
2010-04-21 by Aaron Eppolito
I thought sysex got merged *before* the parser, but maybe my memory's rusty. I do know that 3rd party sysex gets stripped. To my dismay, the MIDI parser checks to see if the sysex message is one of ours, and if not, discards it. It's also why it can't record sysex but will play sysex in the .mid file. That said, it does seem like it should be sending CCs or at least NRPNs instead of sysex for knob movements. Sysex is pretty heavyweight, especially for continuous data. Perhaps there's a way to use CCs on your masterkeyboard, korg, and juno? -Aaron ________________________________ From: Jack Pratt <woodsworth1@...> To: xl7@yahoogroups.com Sent: Fri, April 16, 2010 2:44:57 PM Subject: Re: [xl7] Re: Sysex through? XL7 filters Sysex messages? Sysex is a little different to note on/off data in that the length of a sysex music is not known (until the sysex message comes to an end). This means that merging is a difficult process since local messages would need to be paused until the sysex message is complete. So there needs to be buffering of the local messages until the sysex is complete. Also the end of the sysex message may be hidden amoung data so the merger may have problems in the merging. The E-MU command module may avoid the problem by ditching sysex. Alternatively the sysex messages may be corrupted in the merge (due to problems stated above). It is also possible that some messages which are on the command station's MIDI channel are presumed to be for the command station and not merged. This last option seems unlikely since the notes are passed through. Interestingly, turning a knob may not generate sysex messages if its configured as merely a controller. Controller change messages are simple 3 byte messages as note on messages. Again I don't use the XL7 enough to check this out. What you might like to do is run something like midi ox on a PC to capture the keyboard output with and without an XL7 in the way to see if the messages are in fact being filtered out. ________________________________ From: lz303 <lz303@...> To: xl7@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sat, April 17, 2010 1:47:09 AM Subject: [xl7] Re: Sysex through? XL7 filters Sysex messages? Hmmm...sorry to disappoint you but in my case it is definately not working. I tried both Midi outs (A+B) , i changed every possible parameter in the midi menu (eg midi merge, both 'on'). Sysex is definately filtered out or ignored or something else. Like i said before: Masterkeyboard which sends sysex commands to control cutoff freq and resonance and so on ... to Alpha juno directly or even through a Korg KMS30 works perfect. Every sysex command works. Masterkeyboard to XL7 then through either midi port A or B out...i can play notes, i mean the Alpha juno plays as i t should but the sysex commands are not functioning anymore. No reaction when i turn a knob... --- In xl7@yahoogroups. com, Jack Pratt <woodsworth1@ ...> wrote: > > That's good to know. > > As I mentioned I don't use my XL7 enough. E-MU did put lots of effort into these modules so its not surprising that they can do what most devices wouldn't be capable of. > > Thanks! > > > > > ____________ _________ _________ __ > From: Narcissus <narcissus05@ ...> > To: xl7@yahoogroups. com > Sent: Fri, April 16, 2010 6:11:08 PM > Subject: Re: [xl7] Re: Sysex through? XL7 filters Sysex messages? > > > In fact, the Command Station IS a MIDI Merger. If you activate (in the MIDI Menu) the "merge midi in to out" you can even choose which of the 2 midi outs carries the mix of incoming data and sequenced one. The CS shouldn't filter anything, even sysex, when one if its outputs is used as a MIDI THRU. > > No keyboard sporting a MIDI THRU would do it, and it would be a terrible flaw in the design >