Yahoo Groups archive

Emu XL-7 & MP-7 User's Group

Archive for xl7.

Index last updated: 2026-03-30 01:19 UTC

Thread

Re: [xl7] Re: FLASH SIMM

Re: [xl7] Re: FLASH SIMM

1980-01-04 by Ivan Chaparro

Im in, just wondering if you could clarify how this would integrate into a maxed out command station. Eg: all four roms filled will i have to sacrifice one? will it just pop into one of the existing slots?
----- Original Message -----
From: Geert
Sent: Tuesday, February 16, 2010 9:47 AM
Subject: [xl7] Re: FLASH SIMM

 

definately in.

--- In xl7@yahoogroups.com, Jack Pratt ...> wrote:
>
> Howdy.
>
> I have created a schematic for a FLASH SIMM. I can send a copy to anyone who is sufficiently interested (rather than posting it to everyone [which I thought would be bad etiquette]) - so pm me if you want to see it.
>
> This FLASH SIMM is not the same as DRAM SIMM mentioned previously, but has some similar features. The intention is to have two 1Gb FLASH devices populated (total of 256MB FLASH) which would allow as many as seven 32+4MB images [32MB = wave memory, 4MB preset memory].
>
> What The SIMM is does mirrors up to four slots - it is actually in one slot but can respond to requests for any of the slots, but you can turn 'off' that response so you can put a physical ROM (or other FLASH) in that slot. Of cours that only accounts for 4 ROM images, the other may be accessed by either a switch or possibly in the future the OS could be modified so that there would be a menu item that allows the user to select which image appears in any given slot. The SIMM has 4 footprints for FLASH devices and if Numonyx every release a 2Gb part then the SIMM could support 1GB of FLASH or 28 images. I'm not planning on altering the OS in the near future so don't hold your breath.
>
> Unfortunately this FLASH SIMM will probably not be programmable in the old way [Ultra for wave memory, Proteus for preset memory] so I need to also produce another board to read and write the board. This solution would be cheaper than buying an Ultra sampler but it wouldn't be a sampler!
>
> In order to proceed I need to know if anyone is interested in this SIMM. Cost would be about USD150 for the SIMM, and about USD125 for the programmer. Not sure on the exact prices because it will depend on the PCB manufacture cost, but I figure I need to sell about 20 of them to make it worth while. Not asking for money, but just a show of hands.
>
> Let me know what you think.
>

FLASH SIMM

2010-01-23 by Jack Pratt

Howdy.
 
I have created a schematic for a FLASH SIMM. I can send a copy to anyone who is sufficiently interested (rather than posting it to everyone [which I thought would be bad etiquette]) - so pm me if you want to see it.
 
This FLASH SIMM is not the same as DRAM SIMM mentioned previously, but has some similar features. The intention is to have two 1Gb FLASH devices populated (total of 256MB FLASH) which would allow as many as seven 32+4MB images [32MB = wave memory, 4MB preset memory].
 
What The SIMM is does mirrors up to four slots - it is actually in one slot but can respond to requests for any of the slots, but you can turn 'off' that response so you can put a physical ROM (or other FLASH) in that slot. Of cours that only accounts for 4 ROM images, the other may be accessed by either a switch or possibly in the future the OS could be modified so that there would be a menu item that allows the user to select which image appears in any given slot. The SIMM has 4 footprints for FLASH devices and if Numonyx every release a 2Gb part then the SIMM could support 1GB of FLASH or 28 images. I'm not planning on altering the OS in the near future so don't hold your breath.
 
Unfortunately this FLASH SIMM will probably not be programmable in the old way [Ultra for wave memory, Proteus for preset memory] so I need to also produce another board to read and write the board. This solution would be cheaper than buying an Ultra sampler but it wouldn't be a sampler!
 
In order to proceed I need to know if anyone is interested in this SIMM. Cost would be about USD150 for the SIMM, and about USD125 for the programmer. Not sure on the exact prices because it will depend on the PCB manufacture cost, but I figure I need to sell about 20 of them to make it worth while. Not asking for money, but just a show of hands.
 
Let me know what you think.
 
 
 
 

Re: [xl7] FLASH SIMM

2010-01-23 by Atom Smasher

On Sat, 23 Jan 2010, Jack Pratt wrote:

> In order to proceed I need to know if anyone is interested in this SIMM. 
> Cost would be about USD150 for the SIMM, and about USD125 for the 
> programmer. Not sure on the exact prices because it will depend on the 
> PCB manufacture cost, but I figure I need to sell about 20 of them to 
> make it worth while. Not asking for money, but just a show of hands. 
> Let me know what you think.
===============

what about a card with a micro-SD slot?

or a USB-card interface?

i'd prefer something that's SD compatible, and i think you could sell 20 
of them without any problem. i'd buy at least one, and if you can't 
pre-sell a batch of 20 i'll commit to buying two.


-- 
         ...atom

  ________________________
  http://atom.smasher.org/
  762A 3B98 A3C3 96C9 C6B7 582A B88D 52E4 D9F5 7808
  -------------------------------------------------

 	"A computer without Windows is like
 	 a chocolate cake without mustard."
 		-- Elfer

Re: [xl7] FLASH SIMM

2010-01-23 by Jack Pratt

Sorry - I should have explained better. This one is Just FLASH based�not DRAM based. So it would behave like the existing FLASH SIMMs only with multiple images. But it will probably be different enough from the E-MU ones to not be programmable in the way they were.
�
The DRAM version would allow you to change it on the fly, whereas the FLASH is much more static (and non-volatile).
�
The DRAM version is being delayed because the devices I want to use are not yet released (by Xilinx). The FLASH version is a much simpler design and with reduced complexity I can test out the theory [kind of as a prelude to the DRAM version]. The DRAM one is still on the drawing board and will probably have a USB and SD card interface. Unfortunately there's a minor problem with the micro to drive the�SIMM in that the MOQ is very high.
�
Looking for interest in this one, however. If there's not enough I may have to scrap it.
�

 

From: Atom Smasher
To: xl7@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Sat, January 23, 2010 9:07:38 PM
Subject: Re: [xl7] FLASH SIMM

�

On Sat, 23 Jan 2010, Jack Pratt wrote:

> In order to proceed I need to know if anyone is interested in this SIMM.
> Cost would be about USD150 for the SIMM, and about USD125 for the
> programmer. Not sure on the exact prices because it will depend on the
> PCB manufacture cost, but I figure I need to sell about 20 of them to
> make it worth while. Not asking for money, but just a show of hands.
> Let me know what you think.
============ ===

what about a card with a micro-SD slot?

or a USB-card interface?

i'd prefer something that's SD compatible, and i think you could sell 20
of them without any problem. i'd buy at least one, and if you can't
pre-sell a batch of 20 i'll commit to buying two.

--
...atom

____________ _________ ___
http://atom. smasher.org/
762A 3B98 A3C3 96C9 C6B7 582A B88D 52E4 D9F5 7808
------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- -

"A computer without Windows is like
a chocolate cake without mustard."
-- Elfer


Re: [xl7] FLASH SIMM

2010-01-23 by Bob S.

Hi Jack

A couple of questions on the proposed programming board.

Is it an external board where you would need to remove the SIMM from the synth, program it, then return the SIMM?  Or would it coexist within the synth with the SIMM?

What is the proposed PC interface to the programmming board?  Would it include or require software or drivers to communicate to the board from the PC?

The current flash setup with the Ultra sampler allows the naming of the sample and the programming of basic non-alterable presets.  Is functionality maintained or is this a more basic version of convert a sample to the right format and then write that sample in the EEPROM on the SIMM?

Thanks
Bob
El Segundo, CA



-----Original Message-----

From: Jack Pratt 

Sent: Jan 23, 2010 7:47 AM

To: xl7@yahoogroups.com

Subject: Re: [xl7] FLASH SIMM


















 



  


    
      
      
      Sorry - I should have explained better. This one is Just FLASH based not DRAM based. So it would behave like the existing FLASH SIMMs only with multiple images. But it will probably be different enough from the E-MU ones to not be programmable in the way they were.
 
The DRAM version would allow you to change it on the fly, whereas the FLASH is much more static (and non-volatile).
 
The DRAM version is being delayed because the devices I want to use are not yet released (by Xilinx). The FLASH version is a much simpler design and with reduced complexity I can test out the theory [kind of as a prelude to the DRAM version]. The DRAM one is still on the drawing board and will probably have a USB and SD card interface. Unfortunately there's a minor problem with the micro to drive the SIMM in that the MOQ is very high.
 
Looking for interest in this one, however. If there's not enough I may have to scrap it.
 

 




From: Atom Smasher <atom@...>
To: xl7@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Sat, January 23, 2010 9:07:38 PM
Subject: Re: [xl7] FLASH SIMM

  

On Sat, 23 Jan 2010, Jack Pratt wrote:

> In order to proceed I need to know if anyone is interested in this SIMM. 
> Cost would be about USD150 for the SIMM, and about USD125 for the 
> programmer. Not sure on the exact prices because it will depend on the 
> PCB manufacture cost, but I figure I need to sell about 20 of them to 
> make it worth while. Not asking for money, but just a show of hands. 
> Let me know what you think.
============ ===

what about a card with a micro-SD slot?

or a USB-card interface?

i'd prefer something that's SD compatible, and i think you could sell 20 
of them without any problem. i'd buy at least one, and if you can't 
pre-sell a batch of 20 i'll commit to buying two.

-- 
...atom

____________ _________ ___
http://atom. smasher.org/
762A 3B98 A3C3 96C9 C6B7 582A
 B88D 52E4 D9F5 7808
------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- -

"A computer without Windows is like
a chocolate cake without mustard."
-- Elfer

Re: [xl7] FLASH SIMM

2010-01-23 by Smith

I think you rock...keep us posted....

--- On Sat, 1/23/10, Jack Pratt wrote:

From: Jack Pratt
Subject: [xl7] FLASH SIMM
To: xl7@yahoogroups.com
Date: Saturday, January 23, 2010, 2:57 AM

�

Howdy.
�
I have created a schematic for a FLASH SIMM. I can send a copy to anyone who is sufficiently interested�(rather than posting it to everyone [which I thought would be bad etiquette]) - so pm me if you want to see it.
�;
This FLASH SIMM is not the same as DRAM SIMM mentioned previously, but has some similar features. The intention is to have two 1Gb FLASH devices populated (total of 256MB FLASH) which would allow as many as seven 32+4MB images [32MB = wave memory, 4MB preset memory].
�
What The SIMM is does mirrors�up to�four slots - it is actually in one slot but can respond to requests for any of the slots, but you can turn 'off' that response so you can put a physical ROM (or other FLASH) in that slot. Of cours that only accounts for 4 ROM images, the other may be accessed by either a switch or possibly in the future the OS could be modified so that there would be a menu item that allows the user to select which�image appears in any given slot. The SIMM has 4 footprints for FLASH devices and if Numonyx every release a 2Gb part then the�SIMM could support 1GB of FLASH or 28 images. I'm not planning on altering the OS�in the near future�so don't hold your breath.
�;
Unfortunately this FLASH SIMM will probably not be programmable in the old way [Ultra for wave memory, Proteus for preset memory] so I need to also produce another board to read and write the board. This solution would be cheaper than buying an Ultra sampler but it wouldn't be a sampler!
�
In order to proceed I need to know if anyone is interested in this SIMM. Cost would be about USD150 for the SIMM, and about USD125 for the programmer. Not sure on the exact prices because it will depend on the PCB manufacture cost, but I figure I need to sell about 20 of them to make it worth while. Not asking for money, but�just a show of hands.
�
Let me know what you think.
�
�
�
�


Re: [xl7] FLASH SIMM

2010-01-23 by Jack Pratt

Hi Bob.
 
Essentially the programming board is just an image programmer. Its not a sampler that allows you to modify anything, but allows you to put an image (created by something else) into the FLASH SIMM.
 
You'll understand why if I give a little more detail. This SIMM would look different to the E-MU FLASH SIMMs so that the E-MU hardware that is used to program the E-MU ones probably wouldn't work. The reason that there is a modicom of doubt is because the J3 devices used on the E-MU SIMMs and the M29EWs that I want to use both have a CFI interface. If the E-MU programmers made use of the CFI interface then it is possible that new ones may be programmable but I would doubt it.
 
In any case, the existing procedure for E-MU FLASH SIMMs is to take them to an Ultra sampler and put some waves on them. AFter that you return them to a proteus module to put presets on them. THe Ultra sampler doesn't know anything about the preset memory and so is unable to program it. While it is in the Ultra you can generate some 'Ultra only' presets that can be stored on the FLASH SIMM, but these are not accessible by the proteus module when you move the SIMM there. Once in the proteus module, you initially have no presets, but must create/write them all yourself. [you create them in a user bank, then copy the entire bank over to the FLASH SIMM]
 
The problem is that the format of the information on the SIMM is unknown (at this time). E-MU FLASH SIMMs appear like file systems to the Ultra Sampler but I don't know of that is just a representation of the content. It seems unlikely that there is in fact a file system on the SIMMs but anything is possible. The format of the preset infomation is less known. Apart from the MIDI sysex dumps which indicate the type of preset information on the SIMMs, the actual layout that the Proteus module need to see to make use of the SIMM is unknown [to me].
 
There are ways to find out:
  A. get some existing SIMMs and take the FLASH devices off to read them ;via a programmer.
  B. make a board that will read their content.
 
Option A is a bit destructive, but could be done. Option B is better because it would also allow writing once the format is known, so its the better solution for me [unless lots of people want to donate SIMMs to the cause - I really don't want to wreck a lot of mine].
 
Knowing what the format looks like could allow the programming board to modify individual items - but to what end?
Firstly there's no way to know what effect your changes will have [apart from purely cosmetic ones like names of items] since you can't play the waves/presets back.
Secondly there's the issue of being able to make the changes. Even if you only want to write to a single byte, you have to keep a copy of the entire erase block to be able to put the rest back as it was. These FLASH devices have 128K erase blocks. The write blocks are smaller but when you erase you need to erase 128K. That might sound like a small amount but very few microcontrollers have on-chip RAM more than a few kilobytes and even if you found one with 128K of RAM [there are some of those about] you need more for programming structures like stack and variables.
 
So its much simpler to just allow an image to be written to the FLASH and that's that. The image gets generated on a PC with whatever tool gets created for that purpose, but the programmer doesn't know anything about the content. And simpler means available much sooner.
 
The solution I had in mind was to have a compact FLASH connector on the programmer board, and the board copies an image file from the compact FLASH to the FLASH SIMM. A USB interface would also be provided to allow a PC to write the contents of the Compact FLASH card. This is a simple solution (is quicker to implement) -> the programmer board with compact FLASH device looks like a mass-storage device to the PC, so you can put whatever image you want onto the compact FLASH (don't need a separate USB-compact FLASH reader) and then program it. Not having special drivers on the PC is a big plus!
 
Since the programmer doesn't know anything about content, some PC application will need to be created to allow the generation of the images. This is a much more flexible approach, as the functionality of the PC program can be much more easily modified by anyone who wants to. Part of the goal here is to know what goes into the image so you could then pack waves from any source into a wave image. However, then you would have no presets, so you would need to create them in user banks. To get these into the FLASH SIMM, you would need to create sysex dumps which would then be packed into an appropriate preset image and then the wave + preset information programmed into the FLASH SIMM a second time to free up the user banks (for the next image). The images would be easy to share.
 
Hope this makes clear what I am proposing.
 
 
 
 
 

From: Bob S.
To: xl7@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Sat, January 23, 2010 11:11:18 PM
Subject: Re: [xl7] FLASH SIMM

 

Hi Jack

A couple of questions on the proposed programming board.

Is it an external board where you would need to remove the SIMM from the synth, program it, then return the SIMM? Or would it coexist within the synth with the SIMM?

What is the proposed PC interface to the programmming board? Would it include or require software or drivers to communicate to the board from the PC?

The current flash setup with the Ultra sampler allows the naming of the sample and the programming of basic non-alterable presets. Is functionality maintained or is this a more basic version of convert a sample to the right format and then write that sample in the EEPROM on the SIMM?

Thanks
Bob
El Segundo, CA


RE: [xl7] FLASH SIMM

2010-01-24 by Beowolf

It sounds like you have been analyzing the advantages of your suggestion for quite awhile and I would be interested when they are available. Thanks for your major input to the group.

�

Bruce

�

�

�

From: xl7@yahoogroups.com [mailto:xl7@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Jack Pratt
Sent: Saturday, January 23, 2010 1:12 PM
To: xl7@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [xl7] FLASH SIMM

�

�

Hi Bob.

�

Essentially the programming board is just an image programmer. Its not a sampler that allows you to modify anything, but allows you to put an image (created by something else) into the FLASH SIMM.

�

You'll understand why if I give a little more detail. This SIMM would look different to the E-MU FLASH SIMMs so that the E-MU hardware that is used to program�the E-MU ones probably�wouldn't work. The reason that there is a modicom of doubt is�because the J3 devices used on the E-MU SIMMs and the M29EWs that I want to use both have a CFI interface. If the E-MU programmers made use of the CFI interface�then it is possible that�new ones�may be programmable but I would doubt it.

�

In any case, the existing procedure for E-MU FLASH SIMMs is to take them to an Ultra sampler and put some waves on them. AFter that you return them to a proteus module to put presets on them.�THe Ultra sampler doesn't know anything about the preset memory and so is unable to program it. While it is in the Ultra�you can generate some�'Ultra only' presets that can be stored on the FLASH SIMM, but these are not accessible by the proteus module when you move the SIMM there. Once in the proteus module, you initially have no presets, but must create/write them all yourself. [you create them in a user bank, then copy the entire�bank over to the FLASH SIMM]

�

The problem is that the format of the information�on the�SIMM is unknown (at this time).�E-MU FLASH SIMMs appear like file systems to the Ultra Sampler but I don't know�of�that is just a representation of the content. It seems unlikely that there is in fact a file system on the SIMMs but anything is possible. The format of the preset infomation�is less known. Apart from the MIDI sysex dumps which indicate the type of preset information on the SIMMs, the actual layout that the Proteus module need to see to make use of the SIMM is unknown [to me].

 

There are ways to find out:

� A. get some existing SIMMs and take the FLASH devices off to read them�via a programmer.

� B. make a board that will read their content.

 

Option A is a bit destructive, but could be done. Option B is better because it would also allow writing once the format is known, so its the better solution for me [unless lots of people want to donate SIMMs to the cause - I really don't want to wreck a lot of mine].

�

Knowing what the format looks like could allow the programming board to modify individual items - but to what end?

Firstly there's no way to know what effect your changes will have�[apart from purely cosmetic ones like names of items] since you can't play the waves/presets back.

Secondly there's the issue of being able to make the changes. Even if you only want to write to a single byte, you have to keep a copy of the entire erase block to be able to put the rest back as it was. These FLASH devices have 128K erase blocks. The write blocks are smaller but when you erase you need to erase 128K.�That might sound like a small amount but very few microcontrollers have on-chip RAM more than a few�kilobytes and even if you found one with 128K of RAM [there are some of those about] you need more for programming structures like stack and variables.

�

So its much simpler to just allow an image to be written to the FLASH and that's that. The image gets generated on a PC with whatever tool gets created for that purpose, but the programmer doesn't know anything about the content. And simpler means available much sooner.

 

The solution I had in mind was to have a compact FLASH connector on the programmer board, and the board copies an image file from the compact FLASH to the FLASH SIMM. A USB interface would also be provided to allow a PC to write the contents of the Compact FLASH card. This is a simple solution (is quicker to implement) -> the programmer board with compact FLASH device�looks like a mass-storage device to the PC, so you can put whatever image you want onto the compact FLASH (don't need a separate USB-compact FLASH reader) and then program it. Not having special drivers on the PC is a big plus!

�

Since the programmer doesn't know anything about content, some PC application will need to be created to allow the generation of the images. This is a much more flexible approach, as the functionality of the PC program can be much more easily modified by anyone who wants to. Part of the goal here is to know what goes into the image so you could then pack waves from any source into a wave image. However, then you would have no presets, so you would need to create them in user banks. To get these into the FLASH SIMM, you would need to create sysex dumps which would then be packed into an appropriate�preset image and then the wave + preset information programmed into the FLASH SIMM a second time to free up the user banks (for the next image). The images would be easy to share.

�

Hope this makes clear what I am proposing.

�

�

�

�

 

�

From: Bob S.
To: xl7@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Sat, January 23, 2010 11:11:18 PM
Subject: Re: [xl7] FLASH SIMM

�

Hi Jack

A couple of questions on the proposed programming board.

Is it an external board where you would need to remove the SIMM from the synth, program it, then return the SIMM? Or would it coexist within the synth with the SIMM?

What is the proposed PC interface to the programmming board? Would it include or require software or drivers to communicate to the board from the PC?

The current flash setup with the Ultra sampler allows the naming of the sample and the programming of basic non-alterable presets. Is functionality maintained or is this a more basic version of convert a sample to the right format and then write that sample in the EEPROM on the SIMM?

Thanks
Bob
El Segundo, CA

�

Re: [xl7] FLASH SIMM

2010-01-24 by john shaw

Jack, that sounds really awesome. I am definitely in to buy a unit, and i will see about others. I'm still pretty new to my xl-7, but it's not hard to see that a device like this would do great things for your sound pallette.

Re: [xl7] FLASH SIMM

2010-01-24 by Ian Lamb

Jack:


I own an E-mu XL-7 (with XL, TSCY, VintagePro, and ProteanDrums ROMs)
as well as a E-mu E6400 Ultra (with 2 ROMs and RFX).

So with a "regular" Flash SIMM, I could author a ROM.

That said, what you propose sounds lovely. Consider me interested and intrigued.


best wishes on your project(s),
Ian

Re: FLASH SIMM

2010-01-24 by joeyjoejoemagee

Jack! I'd buy one! I've already been looking for an Ultra and blank flashes, but this option seems more feasible. Let me make sure I understand though, we would need the flash simm, a card reader and software to download the sound images to the card? I'm not so worried about software to actually edit the samples, just getting them on the card in the specific format.

Re: [xl7] FLASH SIMM

2010-01-24 by Jack Pratt

Just so you know, you could still use the FLASH SIMM in an ultra, but you probably wouldn't be able to write anything to it (without ;using the programming adapter).
 
 
In any case, I'm considering modifying the design to place a micro on board with a USB interface. This would allow the FLASH to be programmed while in situ and not actually require the programming board to use. It would be more expensive and more complex, and I need to consider how the interface will work - not really keen on writing a USB driver for multiple platforms. Perhaps just a MSD for one image (32+4MB) and when you disconnect the USB it does the 'write'. However that requires a relatively large amount of storage (SDRAM) for a single image.
 
This solution is FLASH but with an on-SIMM USB write interface. Unfortunately the interface would be full speed (12Mb/sec) so 32+4MB would take 40 to 45 seconds to transfer.
 
This is how it would work:
When you power on you have access to the contents of the FLASH as previously programmed.
If you want to change the contents you would plug the USB into a PC, and copy a image to the "drive" that shows up on your desktop.
When you un-plug the USB interface the micro checks whether there's an image file written and then writes the contents to the FLASH.
While the USB is connected and up until the time the programming is complete the FLASH SIMM will be 'disabled' as far as the proteus module is concerned - once a change has occurred you'll have to reset the module to use the changed anyway.
 
Not sure how to expose the USB connector externally - might need some home metal work.
 
If you want to create your own images you could :-
1. get the programming hardware and read a SIMM you already have [eg an E-MU FLASH SIMM] - I still need to make the programming hardware to be able to read existing SIMMs to learn about the storage format for wave and preset memory.
2. once someone gets around to writing the application(s) :-
   A. pack waves into an image & transfer to the SIMM
   B. generate presets in the user banks
   C. dump the user presets as sysex
   D. pack the waves and presets into an image & transfer to the SIMM
 
The applications (to be written) would pack the waves & sysex into an image once the format of these is detemined.
 
 
 

 

From: Ian Lamb
To: xl7@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Mon, January 25, 2010 4:04:21 AM
Subject: Re: [xl7] FLASH SIMM

 

Jack:

I own an E-mu XL-7 (with XL, TSCY, VintagePro, and ProteanDrums ROMs)
as well as a E-mu E6400 Ultra (with 2 ROMs and RFX).

So with a "regular" Flash SIMM, I could author a ROM.

That said, what you propose sounds lovely. Consider me interested and intrigued.

best wishes on your project(s),
Ian


Re: [xl7] FLASH SIMM

2010-01-24 by Bob S.

Thank you, Jack, for that additional information on your proposed project.
 
There is only one statement in there I disagree with...."'Ultra only' presets that can be stored on the FLASH SIMM, but these are not accessible by the proteus module when you move the SIMM there. Once in the proteus module, you initially have no presets"
 
With the Emu Flash ROMs I have programmed, the Ultra sampler presets were converted to ROM presets in the Proteus module/keyboard (I have 2 modules, 2 keyboards and one command station), I tried it in 2 of the 5.  They were converted to very basic presets, not using any of the advance filters or modulations of the Proteus series.  To make use of the capability of the Proteus synth engine, I did have to create my own presets in the user bank.
 
With that said, this is an ambitious project that will take some time and knowledge to successfully complete...seems you have both....then please take my encouragement and support at another approach to create customized waveforms for this great synth line.  I wish I had some time to work on some hardware projects but alas...there is no time left in a day.....
 
I have 3 of the Emu 32MB Flash ROMs but would be interested in at least acquiring 2 of yours and the programmer, if necessary, of course, after a well tested product....best of luck....
 
Bob
El Segundo, CA
 
 
----- Original Message -----
From: Jack Pratt
To: xl7@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Saturday, January 23, 2010 1:11 PM
Subject: Re: [xl7] FLASH SIMM

 

Hi Bob.
 
Essentially the programming board is just an image programmer. Its not a sampler that allows you to modify anything, but allows you to put an image (created by something else) into the FLASH SIMM.
 
You'll understand why if I give a little more detail. This SIMM would look different to the E-MU FLASH SIMMs so that the E-MU hardware that is used to program the E-MU ones probably wouldn't work. The reason that there is a modicom of doubt is because the J3 devices used on the E-MU SIMMs and the M29EWs that I want to use both have a CFI interface. If the E-MU programmers made use of the CFI interface then it is possible that new ones may be programmable but I would doubt it.
 
In any case, the existing procedure for E-MU FLASH SIMMs is to take them to an Ultra sampler and put some waves on them. AFter that you return them to a proteus module to put presets on them. THe Ultra sampler doesn't know anything about the preset memory and so is unable to program it. While it is in the Ultra you can generate some 'Ultra only' presets that can be stored on the FLASH SIMM, but these are not accessible by the proteus module when you move the SIMM there. Once in the proteus module, you initially have no presets, but must create/write them all yourself. [you create them in a user bank, then copy the entire bank over to the FLASH SIMM]
 
The problem is that the format of the information on the SIMM is unknown (at this time). E-MU FLASH SIMMs appear like file systems to the Ultra Sampler but I don't know of that is just a representation of the content. It seems unlikely that there is in fact a file system on the SIMMs but anything is possible. The format of the preset infomation is less known. Apart from the MIDI sysex dumps which indicate the type of preset information on the SIMMs, the actual layout that the Proteus module need to see to make use of the SIMM is unknown [to me].
 
There are ways to find out:
  A. get some existing SIMMs and take the FLASH devices off to read them via a programmer.
  B. make a board that will read their content.
 
Option A is a bit destructive, but could be done. Option B is better because it would also allow writing once the format is known, so its the better solution for me [unless lots of people want to donate SIMMs to the cause - I really don't want to wreck a lot of mine].
 
Knowing what the format looks like could allow the programming board to modify individual items - but to what end?
Firstly there's no way to know what effect your changes will have [apart from purely cosmetic ones like names of items] since you can't play the waves/presets back.
Secondly there's the issue of being able to make the changes. Even if you only want to write to a single byte, you have to keep a copy of the entire erase block to be able to put the rest back as it was. These FLASH devices have 128K erase blocks. The write blocks are smaller but when you erase you need to erase 128K. That might sound like a small amount but very few microcontrollers have on-chip RAM more than a few kilobytes and even if you found one with 128K of RAM [there are some of those about] you need more for programming structures like stack and variables.
 
So its much simpler to just allow an image to be written to the FLASH and that's that. The image gets generated on a PC with whatever tool gets created for that purpose, but the programmer doesn't know anything about the content. And simpler means available much sooner.
 
The solution I had in mind was to have a compact FLASH connector on the programmer board, and the board copies an image file from the compact FLASH to the FLASH SIMM. A USB interface would also be provided to allow a PC to write the contents of the Compact FLASH card. This is a simple solution (is quicker to implement) -> the programmer board with compact FLASH device looks like a mass-storage device to the PC, so you can put whatever image you want onto the compact FLASH (don't need a separate USB-compact FLASH reader) and then program it. Not having special drivers on the PC is a big plus!
 
Since the programmer doesn't know anything about content, some PC application will need to be created to allow the generation of the images. This is a much more flexible approach, as the functionality of the PC program can be much more easily modified by anyone who wants to. Part of the goal here is to know what goes into the image so you could then pack waves from any source into a wave image. However, then you would have no presets, so you would need to create them in user banks. To get these into the FLASH SIMM, you would need to create sysex dumps which would then be packed into an appropriate preset image and then the wave + preset information programmed into the FLASH SIMM a second time to free up the user banks (for the next image). The images would be easy to share.
 
Hope this makes clear what I am proposing.
 
 
 
 
 

From: Bob S. k.net>
To: xl7@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Sat, January 23, 2010 11:11:18 PM
Subject: Re: [xl7] FLASH SIMM

 

Hi Jack

A couple of questions on the proposed programming board.

Is it an external board where you would need to remove the SIMM from the synth, program it, then return the SIMM? Or would it coexist within the synth with the SIMM?

What is the proposed PC interface to the programmming board? Would it include or require software or drivers to communicate to the board from the PC?

The current flash setup with the Ultra sampler allows the naming of the sample and the programming of basic non-alterable presets. Is functionality maintained or is this a more basic version of convert a sample to the right format and then write that sample in the EEPROM on the SIMM?

Thanks
Bob
El Segundo, CA


Re: [xl7] FLASH SIMM

2010-01-25 by Jack Pratt

Hi Bob,
 
You have clearly had more experience with the FLASH SIMMs than I have. I have a 16MB and a 32MB FLASH SIMM from E-MU, but haven't done much with them. Seems I had a slight misunderstanding.
 
When I put ROMs into my E5000 I find that there are 'presets' that the Ultra can see, but seem not to come from the presets seen by the proteus module. I suspect that the "wave memory" can hold lots of different types of structures - not just waves, but until I look into it I wont know one way or the other. Too many assumptions I guess.
 

 

From: Bob S.
To: xl7@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Mon, January 25, 2010 9:39:57 AM
Subject: Re: [xl7] FLASH SIMM

 

Thank you, Jack, for that additional information on your proposed project.
 
There is only one statement in there I disagree with...."'Ultra only' presets that can be stored on the FLASH SIMM, but these are not accessible by the proteus module when you move the SIMM there. Once in the proteus module, you initially have no presets"
 
With the Emu Flash ROMs I have programmed, the Ultra sampler presets were converted to ROM presets in the Proteus module/keyboard (I have 2 modules, 2 keyboards and one command station), I tried it in 2 of the 5.  They were converted to very basic presets, not using any of the advance filters or modulations of the Proteus series.  To make use of the capability of the Proteus synth engine, I did have to create my own presets in the user bank.
 
With that said, this is an ambitious project that will take some time and knowledge to successfully complete...seems you have both.....then please take my encouragement and support at another approach to create customized waveforms for this great synth line.  I wish I had some time to work on some hardware projects but alas...there is no time left in a day.....
 
I have 3 of the Emu 32MB Flash ROMs but would be interested in at least acquiring 2 of yours and the programmer, if necessary, of course, after a well tested product....best of luck....
 
Bob
El Segundo, CA
 

Re: [xl7] FLASH SIMM

2010-01-25 by Bob S.

Hi Jack
 
Don't forget, on each E-mu ROM board there are 2 Flash elements, Big Flash and Baby Flash. 

Big Flash
contains: 
- All the Sample data (this data is used by EOS and Proteus)
- All EOS preset data contained in the bank (not used by Proteus)

Baby Flash
Baby Flash
contains:  Preset and Instrument data used by Proteus
- Sample Headers - - - - pointers to the sample memory locations
- Instruments - - - - - - - sample original key, sample keyboard range, sample velocity scaling, sample fine tuning, sample volume, sample pan position
- Default Preset info - - preset name, voice amplifier envelope
- Proteus Preset info - - after the Flash SIMM is installed in Proteus, complete presets are created, then uploaded from User RAM into Baby Flash on the SIMM.

In our files section, there is a sound authoring doc from E-mu that explains the memory segregation on the ROM boards:
 
http://f1.grp.yahoofs.com/v1/EO1cS6K7iBhMd7xjL3Nw3NY0M-2IH1E7d61dV1j9uy8-2umqHVtTefSajtD9raohKCIIQzX3brFYV1XkEDCW/Command%20Station%20Info/Sound%20Authoring.pdf
 
Regards
Bob
El Segundo, CA
 
 
 
 
----- Original Message -----
From: Jack Pratt
To: xl7@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Sunday, January 24, 2010 4:33 PM
Subject: Re: [xl7] FLASH SIMM

 

Hi Bob,
 
You have clearly had more experience with the FLASH SIMMs than I have. I have a 16MB and a 32MB FLASH SIMM from E-MU, but haven't done much with them. Seems I had a slight misunderstanding.
 
When I put ROMs into my E5000 I find that there are 'presets' that the Ultra can see, but seem not to come from the presets seen by the proteus module. I suspect that the "wave memory" can hold lots of different types of structures - not just waves, but until I look into it I wont know one way or the other. Too many assumptions I guess.
 

 

From: Bob S. k.net>
To: xl7@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Mon, January 25, 2010 9:39:57 AM
Subject: Re: [xl7] FLASH SIMM

 

Thank you, Jack, for that additional information on your proposed project.
 
There is only one statement in there I disagree with...."'Ultra only' presets that can be stored on the FLASH SIMM, but these are not accessible by the proteus module when you move the SIMM there. Once in the proteus module, you initially have no presets"
 
With the Emu Flash ROMs I have programmed, the Ultra sampler presets were converted to ROM presets in the Proteus module/keyboard (I have 2 modules, 2 keyboards and one command station), I tried it in 2 of the 5.  They were converted to very basic presets, not using any of the advance filters or modulations of the Proteus series.  To make use of the capability of the Proteus synth engine, I did have to create my own presets in the user bank.
 
With that said, this is an ambitious project that will take some time and knowledge to successfully complete...seems you have both.....then please take my encouragement and support at another approach to create customized waveforms for this great synth line.  I wish I had some time to work on some hardware projects but alas...there is no time left in a day.....
 
I have 3 of the Emu 32MB Flash ROMs but would be interested in at least acquiring 2 of yours and the programmer, if necessary, of course, after a well tested product....best of luck....
 
Bob
El Segundo, CA
 

Re: [xl7] FLASH SIMM

2010-01-25 by Jack Pratt

Hey Bob.
�
I know all that, but I don't like the names "big FLASH" and "baby FLASH". The "big FLASH" is actually 4 FLASH chips which amount to 16 or 32MB (wave memory), whereas the "baby FLASH" is 2 or 4MB in a single chip (preset memory). I thought that you were referring to the EOS preset data when you mentioned creating presets on an Ultra, rather than putting presets into the "baby FLASH". I was under the impression that the Ultra would not write anything to the "baby FLASH" but I stand corrected. I'm pretty sure that the demo songs and�patterns are also stored in the "baby FLASH" but more important than the type of information is how the information is formatted so we can replicate it. That can come from disassembling the Proteus OS or from intelligent examination of the contents of the FLASH. The images you get when you copy a ROM to HDD on the Ultra are probably insufficient.
�
Thanks anyhow.
�

�

From: Bob S.
To: xl7@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Mon, January 25, 2010 11:59:34 AM
Subject: Re: [xl7] FLASH SIMM

�

Hi Jack
�
Don't forget, on each E-mu ROM board there are 2 Flash elements, Big Flash and Baby Flash.�

Big Flash
contains:�
- All the Sample data (this data is used by EOS and Proteus)
- All EOS preset data contained in the bank (not used by Proteus)

Baby Flash
Baby Flash
contains:�; Preset and Instrument data used by Proteus
- Sample Headers - - - - pointers to the sample memory locations
- Instruments - - - - - - - sample original key, sample keyboard range, sample velocity scaling, sample fine tuning, sample volume, sample pan position
- Default Preset info - - preset name, voice amplifier envelope
- Proteus Preset info - - after the Flash SIMM is installed in Proteus, complete presets are created, then uploaded from User RAM into Baby Flash on the SIMM.

In our files section, there is a sound authoring doc from E-mu that explains the memory segregation on the ROM boards:
�
�
Regards
Bob
El Segundo, CA
�
�
�
�
----- Original Message -----
From: Jack Pratt
Sent: Sunday, January 24, 2010 4:33 PM
Subject: Re: [xl7] FLASH SIMM

�

Hi Bob,
�
You have clearly had more experience with the FLASH SIMMs than I have. I have a 16MB and a 32MB FLASH SIMM from E-MU, but haven't done much with them. Seems I had a slight misunderstanding.
�
When I put ROMs into my E5000 I find that there are 'presets' that the Ultra can see, but seem not to come from the presets seen by the proteus module. I suspect that the "wave memory" can hold lots of different types of structures - not just waves, but until I look into it I wont know one way or the other. Too many assumptions I guess.
�

�

From: Bob S. k.net>
To: xl7@yahoogroups. com
Sent: Mon, January 25, 2010 9:39:57 AM
Subject: Re: [xl7] FLASH SIMM

�

Thank you, Jack, for that additional information on your proposed project.
�
There is only one statement in there I disagree with...."'Ultra only' presets that can be stored on the FLASH SIMM, but these are not accessible by the proteus module when you move the SIMM there. Once in the proteus module, you initially have no presets"
�
With the Emu Flash ROMs I have programmed, the Ultra sampler presets were converted to ROM presets in the Proteus module/keyboard (I have 2 modules, 2 keyboards and one command station), I tried it in 2 of the 5.� They were converted to very basic presets, not using any of the advance filters or modulations of the Proteus series.� To make use of the capability of the Proteus synth engine, I did have to create my own presets in the user bank.
�
With that said, this is an ambitious project that will take some time and knowledge to successfully complete...seems you have both.....then please take my encouragement and support at�another�approach to create customized waveforms for this great synth line.� I wish I had some time to work on some hardware projects but alas...there is no time left in a day.....
�
I have 3 of the Emu 32MB Flash ROMs but would be interested in at least acquiring 2 of yours and the programmer, if necessary, of course, after a well tested product....best of luck....
�
Bob
El Segundo, CA
�


Re: FLASH SIMM

2010-01-25 by duncan

jack- first up, I'm in.

I own several protues-family modules, a couple of ultra samplers, three 32MB flash roms & one 16MB.

previous to this, I had been burning flash pcmcia cards for alesis quadrasynth devices.... 
lately I have been using a blofeld desktop with the sample option. great sound, loads of memory.... but the hardware is limited (one stereo out, lousy effects) & the o/s is still flakey. the proteus remains the yardstick for me.
(anyone here used the triton to play samples?)

afaik, the ultra creates "basic" presets in the preset memory so that the proteus can find the samples as mapped by the ultra.
thus, if I go to a great deal of time & trouble to split my fifteen mellotron samples across the keyboard in a reasonably realistic way, the proteus keyboard mapping will be the same. I can then take that basic proteus preset & apply all sorts of proteus processing to it, & this is (for my money) where the proteus scores first against the ultra itself.... I know a lot of the same mod routings & patchcords exist in the ultra, but (here it would say "citation needed" if this was a wiki page) I find these things more comprehensively implemented in the proteus.
besides all that, I hate taking hard-drives on the road or on stage, having been bitten by this in the past. back-up removables are all well&good if the drive itself still works.... but the flash rom is way more reliable & quicker too.

if it adds anything useful to the discussion, I can play sounds from the flash rom in the ultra, but I don't think it's possible to copy any data off of them. I tried this with a couple of factory roms that seemed to have been made using flash memory (the expansion for the audity, for example), so I think your theory about the presentation of the data as a file structure is probably good.

duncan.

Re: [xl7] FLASH SIMM

2010-01-25 by Mauricio Balma

I have two units.�� Definitely great to see that somebody is interested on offering to produce some simms.�You can count with my $$$ on at least one

From: john shaw
To: xl7@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Sun, January 24, 2010 9:14:30 AM
Subject: Re: [xl7] FLASH SIMM

�

Jack, that sounds really awesome. I am definitely in to buy a unit, and i will see about others. I'm still pretty new to my xl-7, but it's not hard to see that a device like this would do great things for your sound pallette.


Re: [xl7] Re: FLASH SIMM

2010-01-25 by Smith

WOW you guys amaze me ...I' ve had my xl 7 five years now and I've learned most of what I know about it from this group....power of the internet in action...I have a Yamaha motif and was always wondering about using its sampling power in regards to the xl 7 and perhaps an Ultra, but the hang up is the simm memory...these disscutions are most interesting to me.....On another note.....Please watch � " Zeitgeist Addendum " on line....Power of the internet in Action....Peace

--- On Mon, 1/25/10, duncan wrote:

From: duncan Subject: [xl7] Re: FLASH SIMM
To: xl7@yahoogroups.com
Date: Monday, January 25, 2010, 4:47 AM

�

jack- first up, I'm in.

I own several protues-family modules, a couple of ultra samplers, three 32MB flash roms & one 16MB.

previous to this, I had been burning flash pcmcia cards for alesis quadrasynth devices....
lately I have been using a blofeld desktop with the sample option. great sound, loads of memory.... but the hardware is limited (one stereo out, lousy effects) & the o/s is still flakey. the proteus remains the yardstick for me.
(anyone here used the triton to play samples?)

afaik, the ultra creates "basic" presets in the preset memory so that the proteus can find the samples as mapped by the ultra.
thus, if I go to a great deal of time & trouble to split my fifteen mellotron samples across the keyboard in a reasonably realistic way, the proteus keyboard mapping will be the same. I can then take that basic proteus preset & apply all sorts of proteus processing to it, & this is (for my money) where the proteus scores first against the ultra itself.... I know a lot of the same mod routings & patchcords exist in the ultra, but (here it would say "citation needed" if this was a wiki page) I find these things more comprehensively implemented in the proteus.
besides all that, I hate taking hard-drives on the road or on stage, having been bitten by this in the past. back-up removables are all well&good if the drive itself still works.... but the flash rom is way more reliable & quicker too.

if it adds anything useful to the discussion, I can play sounds from the flash rom in the ultra, but I don't think it's possible to copy any data off of them. I tried this with a couple of factory roms that seemed to have been made using flash memory (the expansion for the audity, for example), so I think your theory about the presentation of the data as a file structure is probably good.

duncan.


Re: FLASH SIMM

2010-02-16 by Geert

definately in.

--- In xl7@yahoogroups.com, Jack Pratt <woodsworth1@...> wrote:
>
> Howdy.
> 
> I have created a schematic for a FLASH SIMM. I can send a copy to anyone who is sufficiently interested (rather than posting it to everyone [which I thought would be bad etiquette]) - so pm me if you want to see it.
> 
> This FLASH SIMM is not the same as DRAM SIMM mentioned previously, but has some similar features. The intention is to have two 1Gb FLASH devices populated (total of 256MB FLASH) which would allow as many as seven 32+4MB images [32MB = wave memory, 4MB preset memory].
> 
> What The SIMM is does mirrors up to four slots - it is actually in one slot but can respond to requests for any of the slots, but you can turn 'off' that response so you can put a physical ROM (or other FLASH) in that slot. Of cours that only accounts for 4 ROM images, the other may be accessed by either a switch or possibly in the future the OS could be modified so that there would be a menu item that allows the user to select which image appears in any given slot. The SIMM has 4 footprints for FLASH devices and if Numonyx every release a 2Gb part then the SIMM could support 1GB of FLASH or 28 images. I'm not planning on altering the OS in the near future so don't hold your breath.
> 
> Unfortunately this FLASH SIMM will probably not be programmable in the old way [Ultra for wave memory, Proteus for preset memory] so I need to also produce another board to read and write the board. This solution would be cheaper than buying an Ultra sampler but it wouldn't be a sampler!
> 
> In order to proceed I need to know if anyone is interested in this SIMM. Cost would be about USD150 for the SIMM, and about USD125 for the programmer. Not sure on the exact prices because it will depend on the PCB manufacture cost, but I figure I need to sell about 20 of them to make it worth while. Not asking for money, but just a show of hands.
> 
> Let me know what you think.
>

[xl7] Re: FLASH SIMM

2010-02-16 by Jack Pratt

Unfortunately, it would not be useable in a max'ed out module.  You would need to remove one of the existing SIMMs [making it no longer max'ed out...]
It is useful for those who have one or more free slots on their module and want it to mirror all of the free slots (ie if you have two of your own SIMMs and you want it to act like two more then it can do that, or if you have no SIMMs at all it can be all four). It also would allow someone to make their own 'SIMMs' without the use of an ULTRA sampler.
 
It would be as good as one or more existing SIMMs with the possibility in the future that it could be better than any existing SIMM as it could potentially be 'swapped' to another ROM image without opening the module [note that this would require changes to the OS in the proteus and because there's no guarantee that this will happen, no one should buy one of these with that expectation]
 
 
Anyway, by way of an update - I have redone the schematic for the SIMM to include a CPU (SAM7S micro from Atmel) with a USB interface and an SDRAM chip (512Mb). There are two options for programming the SIMM through the SDRAM interface. Firstly I could make the ;SIMM look like a mass storage device to the PC with the ability to write on image. The image would be written to SDRAM and when you disconnect then the image is written to the appropriate region of FLASH. A bit cumbersome to write multiple images, no option for reading existing images... The second alternative is to have it appear to be a USB serial interface and have some communication protocol to allow the transfer of images to the FLASH without unplugging (then re-plugging) the USB connection. Also doesn't require the SDRAM chip on the SIMM (which is rather large). There are other options, but ones that require me to write device drivers are heavily deprecated.
 
I haven't fully decided which one (or both) I'll implement so feel free to provide feedback.
 
I've also almost completed the schematic for the programmer/reader board [necessary for programming if you have a SIMM without a CPU, alternative for programming if you have a SIMM with a CPU, necessary for reading existing SIMMs to figure out the storage format]. Its stalled slightly while I mull over how interactive it will be. That is, whether or not you just use it through the USB interface (which is simplest), or have the ability to use it stand-alone [ie be able to programm a SIMM from a compact FLASH card with some LCD screen for interactive selection of images to use].
 
Probably the easiest is just have the SIMM CPU and the programmer CPU both have the same USB-serial interface so one interface fits all.
 
Note that 'easiest' means quicker completion but limited options. Feedback (opinions) are welcome, but I reserve the right to follow my own counsel :-)
 
Also done a PCB library for the major components, so should be able to work on the PCB layout soon...
 

From: Ivan Chaparro
To: xl7@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Sat, January 5, 1980 7:37:02 AM
Subject: Re: [xl7] Re: FLASH SIMM

 

Im in, just wondering if you could clarify how this would integrate into a maxed out command station. Eg: all four roms filled will i have to sacrifice one? will it just pop into one of the existing slots?

Re: [xl7] Re: FLASH SIMM

2010-02-16 by JIBARO SOUL

Im still confused about the form factor of this product, you did shed some light on its capabilities (capacity, limits..) but will this basically be in the form of a removable rom that can be re-written via a usb interface device? in that case will it require that you open the command station and pull the rom each time you wish to re-write? Also, if we do own an ultra sampler, will it make this any easier/cheaper?
----- Original Message -----
From: Jack Pratt
To: xl7@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Tuesday, February 16, 2010 2:04 PM
Subject: [xl7] Re: FLASH SIMM

 

Unfortunately, it would not be useable in a max'ed out module.  You would need to remove one of the existing SIMMs [making it no longer max'ed out...]
It is useful for those who have one or more free slots on their module and want it to mirror all of the free slots (ie if you have two of your own SIMMs and you want it to act like two more then it can do that, or if you have no SIMMs at all it can be all four). It also would allow someone to make their own 'SIMMs' without the use of an ULTRA sampler.
 
It would be as good as one or more existing SIMMs with the possibility in the future that it could be better than any existing SIMM as it could potentially be 'swapped' to another ROM image without opening the module [note that this would require changes to the OS in the proteus and because there's no guarantee that this will happen, no one should buy one of these with that expectation]
 
 
Anyway, by way of an update - I have redone the schematic for the SIMM to include a CPU (SAM7S micro from Atmel) with a USB interface and an SDRAM chip (512Mb). There are two options for programming the SIMM through the SDRAM interface. Firstly I could make the SIMM look like a mass storage device to the PC with the ability to write on image. The image would be written to SDRAM and when you disconnect then the image is written to the appropriate region of FLASH. A bit cumbersome to write multiple images, no option for reading existing images... The second alternative is to have it appear to be a USB serial interface and have some communication protocol to allow the transfer of images to the FLASH without unplugging (then re-plugging) the USB connection. Also doesn't require the SDRAM chip on the SIMM (which is rather large). There are other options, but ones that require me to write device drivers are heavily deprecated.
 
I haven't fully decided which one (or both) I'll implement so feel free to provide feedback.
 
I've also almost completed the schematic for the programmer/reader board [necessary for programming if you have a SIMM without a CPU, alternative for programming if you have a SIMM with a CPU, necessary for reading existing SIMMs to figure out the storage format]. Its stalled slightly while I mull over how interactive it will be. That is, whether or not you just use it through the USB interface (which is simplest), or have the ability to use it stand-alone [ie be able to programm a SIMM from a compact FLASH card with some LCD screen for interactive selection of images to use].
 
Probably the easiest is just have the SIMM CPU and the programmer CPU both have the same USB-serial interface so one interface fits all.
 
Note that 'easiest' means quicker completion but limited options. Feedback (opinions) are welcome, but I reserve the right to follow my own counsel :-)
 
Also done a PCB library for the major components, so should be able to work on the PCB layout soon...
 

From: Ivan Chaparro com>
To: xl7@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Sat, January 5, 1980 7:37:02 AM
Subject: Re: [xl7] Re: FLASH SIMM

 

Im in, just wondering if you could clarify how this would integrate into a maxed out command station. Eg: all four roms filled will i have to sacrifice one? will it just pop into one of the existing slots?

Re: [xl7] Re: FLASH SIMM

2010-02-16 by JIBARO SOUL

Im still confused about the form factor of this product, you did shed some light on its capabilities (capacity, limits..) but will this basically be in the form of a removable rom that can be re-written via a usb interface device? in that case will it require that you open the command station and pull the rom each time you wish to re-write? Also, if we do own an ultra sampler, will it make this any easier/cheaper?
----- Original Message -----
From: Jack Pratt
To: xl7@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Tuesday, February 16, 2010 2:04 PM
Subject: [xl7] Re: FLASH SIMM

 

Unfortunately, it would not be useable in a max'ed out module.  You would need to remove one of the existing SIMMs [making it no longer max'ed out...]
It is useful for those who have one or more free slots on their module and want it to mirror all of the free slots (ie if you have two of your own SIMMs and you want it to act like two more then it can do that, or if you have no SIMMs at all it can be all four). It also would allow someone to make their own 'SIMMs' without the use of an ULTRA sampler.
 
It would be as good as one or more existing SIMMs with the possibility in the future that it could be better than any existing SIMM as it could potentially be 'swapped' to another ROM image without opening the module [note that this would require changes to the OS in the proteus and because there's no guarantee that this will happen, no one should buy one of these with that expectation]
 
 
Anyway, by way of an update - I have redone the schematic for the SIMM to include a CPU (SAM7S micro from Atmel) with a USB interface and an SDRAM chip (512Mb). There are two options for programming the SIMM through the SDRAM interface. Firstly I could make the SIMM look like a mass storage device to the PC with the ability to write on image. The image would be written to SDRAM and when you disconnect then the image is written to the appropriate region of FLASH. A bit cumbersome to write multiple images, no option for reading existing images... The second alternative is to have it appear to be a USB serial interface and have some communication protocol to allow the transfer of images to the FLASH without unplugging (then re-plugging) the USB connection. Also doesn't require the SDRAM chip on the SIMM (which is rather large). There are other options, but ones that require me to write device drivers are heavily deprecated.
 
I haven't fully decided which one (or both) I'll implement so feel free to provide feedback.
 
I've also almost completed the schematic for the programmer/reader board [necessary for programming if you have a SIMM without a CPU, alternative for programming if you have a SIMM with a CPU, necessary for reading existing SIMMs to figure out the storage format]. Its stalled slightly while I mull over how interactive it will be. That is, whether or not you just use it through the USB interface (which is simplest), or have the ability to use it stand-alone [ie be able to programm a SIMM from a compact FLASH card with some LCD screen for interactive selection of images to use].
 
Probably the easiest is just have the SIMM CPU and the programmer CPU both have the same USB-serial interface so one interface fits all.
 
Note that 'easiest' means quicker completion but limited options. Feedback (opinions) are welcome, but I reserve the right to follow my own counsel :-)
 
Also done a PCB library for the major components, so should be able to work on the PCB layout soon...
 

From: Ivan Chaparro com>
To: xl7@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Sat, January 5, 1980 7:37:02 AM
Subject: Re: [xl7] Re: FLASH SIMM

 

Im in, just wondering if you could clarify how this would integrate into a maxed out command station. Eg: all four roms filled will i have to sacrifice one? will it just pop into one of the existing slots?

Re: [xl7] Re: FLASH SIMM

2010-02-16 by Jack Pratt

Two things - A SIMM that sits in a slot in the place of a ROM and can provide waveform data in place of 1, 2, 3 or 4 ROMS. The USB interface allows you to reprogram it in situ (ie without pulling it out of the box, but you would need to get the USB cable out of the box somehow). [of course if you want the SIMM to pretend to be 3 ROMs (96MB of waveform data) then you can only have one other ROM in the module...]
 
The second thing is a programmer board that can program these SIMMs and read ROMs or read/write FLASH SIMMs (the original EMU ones) - this is necessary because I need to discover just what it is that the proteus 2K modules expect to be reading from the SIMM (rather than the images that you get from reading them in an ultra sampler)
 
 
I was originally going to try and make a SIMM that was compatible with the original FLASH SIMMs (waves programmable in an ULTRA, presets programmable in a P2K module) but there seemed to be considerable resistance to that idea since it was preferrable for users to program them without resorting to an Ultra, and there isn't enough room on a single SIMM for both alternatives. At this stage I don't think there would be sufficient market for a FLASH only SIMM to make it worth the effort of making a clone of it [in the light of this alternative I'm making]
 
Just incidentally, I was planning on making a compatibility mode for it to behave like some 16MB ROMs that should work in an Audity 2000 or an Ultra if desireable (I have an A2K & E5k so this is a desireable feature for me).

 

From: JIBARO SOUL
To: xl7@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Wed, February 17, 2010 9:19:43 AM
Subject: Re: [xl7] Re: FLASH SIMM

 

Im still confused about the form factor of this product, you did shed some light on its capabilities (capacity, limits..) but will this basically be in the form of a removable rom that can be re-written via a usb interface device? in that case will it require that you open the command station and pull the rom each time you wish to re-write? Also, if we do own an ultra sampler, will it make this any easier/cheaper?
----- Original Message -----
From: Jack Pratt
Sent: Tuesday, February 16, 2010 2:04 PM
Subject: [xl7] Re: FLASH SIMM

 

Unfortunately, it would not be useable in a max'ed out module.  You would need to remove one of the existing SIMMs [making it no longer max'ed out...]
It is useful for those who have one or more free slots on their module and want it to mirror all of the free slots (ie if you have two of your own SIMMs and you want it to act like two more then it can do that, or if you have no SIMMs at all it can be all four). It also would allow someone to make their own 'SIMMs' without the use of an ULTRA sampler.
 
It would be as good as one or more existing SIMMs with the possibility in the future that it could be better than any existing SIMM as it could potentially be 'swapped' to another ROM image without opening the module [note that this would require changes to the OS in the proteus and because there's no guarantee that this will happen, no one should buy one of these with that expectation]
 
 
Anyway, by way of an update - I have redone the schematic for the SIMM to include a CPU (SAM7S micro from Atmel) with a USB interface and an SDRAM chip (512Mb). There are two options for programming the SIMM through the SDRAM interface. Firstly I could make the SIMM look like a mass storage device to the PC with the ability to write on image. The image would be written to SDRAM and when you disconnect then the image is written to the appropriate region of FLASH. A bit cumbersome to write multiple images, no option for reading existing images... The second alternative is to have it appear to be a USB serial interface and have some communication protocol to allow the transfer of images to the FLASH without unplugging (then re-plugging) the USB connection. Also doesn't require the SDRAM chip on the SIMM (which is rather large). There are other options, but ones that require me to write device drivers are heavily deprecated.
 
I haven't fully decided which one (or both) I'll implement so feel free to provide feedback.
 
I've also almost completed the schematic for the programmer/reader board [necessary for programming if you have a SIMM without a CPU, alternative for programming if you have a SIMM with a CPU, necessary for reading existing SIMMs to figure out the storage format]. Its stalled slightly while I mull over how interactive it will be. That is, whether or not you just use it through the USB interface (which is simplest), or have the ability to use it stand-alone [ie be able to programm a SIMM from a compact FLASH card with some LCD screen for interactive selection of images to use].
 
Probably the easiest is just have the SIMM CPU and the programmer CPU both have the same USB-serial interface so one interface fits all.
 
Note that 'easiest' means quicker completion but limited options. Feedback (opinions) are welcome, but I reserve the right to follow my own counsel :-)
 
Also done a PCB library for the major components, so should be able to work on the PCB layout soon...
 

Re: [xl7] Re: FLASH SIMM

2010-02-17 by JIBARO SOUL

so does the usb cable plug into the programming board  or the pc? also, your saying the the limitation of the proteus is 128mb correct? so if i leave 3 roms in place i can only access 32mb on the simm? would there be a way to clone the roms so they can reside on your simm and i can sell the roms? My issue is the cost of your unit would be around the same as an emu branded 32mb flash rom(if I can find one). I own an ultra but have never burned a custom rom cause i dont have a flash rom. sounds like your solution would be a little easier to write to via a pc.
----- Original Message -----
From: Jack Pratt
To: xl7@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Tuesday, February 16, 2010 5:58 PM
Subject: Re: [xl7] Re: FLASH SIMM

 

Two things - A SIMM that sits in a slot in the place of a ROM and can provide waveform data in place of 1, 2, 3 or 4 ROMS. The USB interface allows you to reprogram it in situ (ie without pulling it out of the box, but you would need to get the USB cable out of the box somehow). [of course if you want the SIMM to pretend to be 3 ROMs (96MB of waveform data) then you can only have one other ROM in the module...]
 
The second thing is a programmer board that can program these SIMMs and read ROMs or read/write FLASH SIMMs (the original EMU ones) - this is necessary because I need to discover just what it is that the proteus 2K modules expect to be reading from the SIMM (rather than the images that you get from reading them in an ultra sampler)
 
 
I was originally going to try and make a SIMM that was compatible with the original FLASH SIMMs (waves programmable in an ULTRA, presets programmable in a P2K module) but there seemed to be considerable resistance to that idea since it was preferrable for users to program them without resorting to an Ultra, and there isn't enough room on a single SIMM for both alternatives. At this stage I don't think there would be sufficient market for a FLASH only SIMM to make it worth the effort of making a clone of it [in the light of this alternative I'm making]
 
Just incidentally, I was planning on making a compatibility mode for it to behave like some 16MB ROMs that should work in an Audity 2000 or an Ultra if desireable (I have an A2K & E5k so this is a desireable feature for me).

 

From: JIBARO SOUL com>
To: xl7@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Wed, February 17, 2010 9:19:43 AM
Subject: Re: [xl7] Re: FLASH SIMM

 

Im still confused about the form factor of this product, you did shed some light on its capabilities (capacity, limits..) but will this basically be in the form of a removable rom that can be re-written via a usb interface device? in that case will it require that you open the command station and pull the rom each time you wish to re-write? Also, if we do own an ultra sampler, will it make this any easier/cheaper?
----- Original Message -----
From: Jack Pratt
Sent: Tuesday, February 16, 2010 2:04 PM
Subject: [xl7] Re: FLASH SIMM

 

Unfortunately, it would not be useable in a max'ed out module.  You would need to remove one of the existing SIMMs [making it no longer max'ed out...]
It is useful for those who have one or more free slots on their module and want it to mirror all of the free slots (ie if you have two of your own SIMMs and you want it to act like two more then it can do that, or if you have no SIMMs at all it can be all four). It also would allow someone to make their own 'SIMMs' without the use of an ULTRA sampler.
 
It would be as good as one or more existing SIMMs with the possibility in the future that it could be better than any existing SIMM as it could potentially be 'swapped' to another ROM image without opening the module [note that this would require changes to the OS in the proteus and because there's no guarantee that this will happen, no one should buy one of these with that expectation]
 
 
Anyway, by way of an update - I have redone the schematic for the SIMM to include a CPU (SAM7S micro from Atmel) with a USB interface and an SDRAM chip (512Mb). There are two options for programming the SIMM through the SDRAM interface. Firstly I could make the SIMM look like a mass storage device to the PC with the ability to write on image. The image would be written to SDRAM and when you disconnect then the image is written to the appropriate region of FLASH. A bit cumbersome to write multiple images, no option for reading existing images... The second alternative is to have it appear to be a USB serial interface and have some communication protocol to allow the transfer of images to the FLASH without unplugging (then re-plugging) the USB connection. Also doesn't require the SDRAM chip on the SIMM (which is rather large). There are other options, but ones that require me to write device drivers are heavily deprecated.
 
I haven't fully decided which one (or both) I'll implement so feel free to provide feedback.
 
I've also almost completed the schematic for the programmer/reader board [necessary for programming if you have a SIMM without a CPU, alternative for programming if you have a SIMM with a CPU, necessary for reading existing SIMMs to figure out the storage format]. Its stalled slightly while I mull over how interactive it will be. That is, whether or not you just use it through the USB interface (which is simplest), or have the ability to use it stand-alone [ie be able to programm a SIMM from a compact FLASH card with some LCD screen for interactive selection of images to use].
 
Probably the easiest is just have the SIMM CPU and the programmer CPU both have the same USB-serial interface so one interface fits all.
 
Note that 'easiest' means quicker completion but limited options. Feedback (opinions) are welcome, but I reserve the right to follow my own counsel :-)
 
Also done a PCB library for the major components, so should be able to work on the PCB layout soon...
 

Re: [xl7] Re: FLASH SIMM

2010-02-17 by JIBARO SOUL

so does the usb cable plug into the programming board  or the pc? also, your saying the the limitation of the proteus is 128mb correct? so if i leave 3 roms in place i can only access 32mb on the simm? would there be a way to clone the roms so they can reside on your simm and i can sell the roms? My issue is the cost of your unit would be around the same as an emu branded 32mb flash rom(if I can find one). I own an ultra but have never burned a custom rom cause i dont have a flash rom. sounds like your solution would be a little easier to write to via a pc.
----- Original Message -----
From: Jack Pratt
To: xl7@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Tuesday, February 16, 2010 5:58 PM
Subject: Re: [xl7] Re: FLASH SIMM

 

Two things - A SIMM that sits in a slot in the place of a ROM and can provide waveform data in place of 1, 2, 3 or 4 ROMS. The USB interface allows you to reprogram it in situ (ie without pulling it out of the box, but you would need to get the USB cable out of the box somehow). [of course if you want the SIMM to pretend to be 3 ROMs (96MB of waveform data) then you can only have one other ROM in the module...]
 
The second thing is a programmer board that can program these SIMMs and read ROMs or read/write FLASH SIMMs (the original EMU ones) - this is necessary because I need to discover just what it is that the proteus 2K modules expect to be reading from the SIMM (rather than the images that you get from reading them in an ultra sampler)
 
 
I was originally going to try and make a SIMM that was compatible with the original FLASH SIMMs (waves programmable in an ULTRA, presets programmable in a P2K module) but there seemed to be considerable resistance to that idea since it was preferrable for users to program them without resorting to an Ultra, and there isn't enough room on a single SIMM for both alternatives. At this stage I don't think there would be sufficient market for a FLASH only SIMM to make it worth the effort of making a clone of it [in the light of this alternative I'm making]
 
Just incidentally, I was planning on making a compatibility mode for it to behave like some 16MB ROMs that should work in an Audity 2000 or an Ultra if desireable (I have an A2K & E5k so this is a desireable feature for me).

 

From: JIBARO SOUL com>
To: xl7@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Wed, February 17, 2010 9:19:43 AM
Subject: Re: [xl7] Re: FLASH SIMM

 

Im still confused about the form factor of this product, you did shed some light on its capabilities (capacity, limits..) but will this basically be in the form of a removable rom that can be re-written via a usb interface device? in that case will it require that you open the command station and pull the rom each time you wish to re-write? Also, if we do own an ultra sampler, will it make this any easier/cheaper?
----- Original Message -----
From: Jack Pratt
Sent: Tuesday, February 16, 2010 2:04 PM
Subject: [xl7] Re: FLASH SIMM

 

Unfortunately, it would not be useable in a max'ed out module.  You would need to remove one of the existing SIMMs [making it no longer max'ed out...]
It is useful for those who have one or more free slots on their module and want it to mirror all of the free slots (ie if you have two of your own SIMMs and you want it to act like two more then it can do that, or if you have no SIMMs at all it can be all four). It also would allow someone to make their own 'SIMMs' without the use of an ULTRA sampler.
 
It would be as good as one or more existing SIMMs with the possibility in the future that it could be better than any existing SIMM as it could potentially be 'swapped' to another ROM image without opening the module [note that this would require changes to the OS in the proteus and because there's no guarantee that this will happen, no one should buy one of these with that expectation]
 
 
Anyway, by way of an update - I have redone the schematic for the SIMM to include a CPU (SAM7S micro from Atmel) with a USB interface and an SDRAM chip (512Mb). There are two options for programming the SIMM through the SDRAM interface. Firstly I could make the SIMM look like a mass storage device to the PC with the ability to write on image. The image would be written to SDRAM and when you disconnect then the image is written to the appropriate region of FLASH. A bit cumbersome to write multiple images, no option for reading existing images... The second alternative is to have it appear to be a USB serial interface and have some communication protocol to allow the transfer of images to the FLASH without unplugging (then re-plugging) the USB connection. Also doesn't require the SDRAM chip on the SIMM (which is rather large). There are other options, but ones that require me to write device drivers are heavily deprecated.
 
I haven't fully decided which one (or both) I'll implement so feel free to provide feedback.
 
I've also almost completed the schematic for the programmer/reader board [necessary for programming if you have a SIMM without a CPU, alternative for programming if you have a SIMM with a CPU, necessary for reading existing SIMMs to figure out the storage format]. Its stalled slightly while I mull over how interactive it will be. That is, whether or not you just use it through the USB interface (which is simplest), or have the ability to use it stand-alone [ie be able to programm a SIMM from a compact FLASH card with some LCD screen for interactive selection of images to use].
 
Probably the easiest is just have the SIMM CPU and the programmer CPU both have the same USB-serial interface so one interface fits all.
 
Note that 'easiest' means quicker completion but limited options. Feedback (opinions) are welcome, but I reserve the right to follow my own counsel :-)
 
Also done a PCB library for the major components, so should be able to work on the PCB layout soon...
 

Re: [xl7] Re: FLASH SIMM

2010-02-17 by Jack Pratt

Both the SIMM and the programmer board are USB devices [not host] and are plugged into a PC. The programmer board has a SIMM socket on it to program the SIMM and read existing ROMs/FLASH SIMMs.
 
Although I won't advocate what amounts to piracy of EMU ROM images, there would not be any reason why you could not [if you owned a programmer board] read any ROM SIMM and have its image on the SIMM - thereafter making the ROM SIMM redundant.
 
If you can find a FLASH SIMM you could expect to pay $US150 to $US300 and that only allows you to have 32MB of wave data which you can only modify by taking it out of the module and reprogramming in an Ultra. By comparison I think that my unit(s) are much better value for money...

From: JIBARO SOUL
To: xl7@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Wed, February 17, 2010 11:33:56 AM
Subject: Re: [xl7] Re: FLASH SIMM

 

so does the usb cable plug into the programming board  or the pc? also, your saying the the limitation of the proteus is 128mb correct? so if i leave 3 roms in place i can only access 32mb on the simm? would there be a way to clone the roms so they can reside on your simm and i can sell the roms? My issue is the cost of your unit would be around the same as an emu branded 32mb flash rom(if I can find one). I own an ultra but have never burned a custom rom cause i dont have a flash rom. sounds like your solution would be a little easier to write to via a pc.
----- Original Message -----
From: Jack Pratt
Sent: Tuesday, February 16, 2010 5:58 PM
Subject: Re: [xl7] Re: FLASH SIMM

 

Two things - A SIMM that sits in a slot in the place of a ROM and can provide waveform data in place of 1, 2, 3 or 4 ROMS. The USB interface allows you to reprogram it in situ (ie without pulling it out of the box, but you would need to get the USB cable out of the box somehow). [of course if you want the SIMM to pretend to be 3 ROMs (96MB of waveform data) then you can only have one other ROM in the module...]
 
The second thing is a programmer board that can program these SIMMs and read ROMs or read/write FLASH SIMMs (the original EMU ones) - this is necessary because I need to discover just what it is that the proteus 2K modules expect to be reading from the SIMM (rather than the images that you get from reading them in an ultra sampler)
 
 
I was originally going to try and make a SIMM that was compatible with the original FLASH SIMMs (waves programmable in an ULTRA, presets programmable in a P2K module) but there seemed to be considerable resistance to that idea since it was preferrable for users to program them without resorting to an Ultra, and there isn't enough room on a single SIMM for both alternatives. At this stage I don't think there would be sufficient market for a FLASH only SIMM to make it worth the effort of making a clone of it [in the light of this alternative I'm making]
 
Just incidentally, I was planning on making a compatibility mode for it to behave like some 16MB ROMs that should work in an Audity 2000 or an Ultra if desireable (I have an A2K & E5k so this is a desireable feature for me).

Re: FLASH SIMM

2010-02-18 by Donn

Greets:

Please do send me a copy of the schematics and info. As for interest in ready-to-use SIMMs and programmer, I would definitely be interested as long as the price is reasonable.  I've got an XL7, MP7 and Proteus 2500, as well as a few modules. Most of them are maxed out or nearly so, so I am definitely game for being able to bring in totally fresh sounds.  Keep me on the 'list' please...

Peace & blessings,
Donn

--- In xl7@yahoogroups.com, Jack Pratt <woodsworth1@...> wrote:
>
> Howdy.
> 
> I have created a schematic for a FLASH SIMM. I can send a copy to anyone who is sufficiently interested (rather than posting it to everyone [which I thought would be bad etiquette]) - so pm me if you want to see it.
> 
> This FLASH SIMM is not the same as DRAM SIMM mentioned previously, but has some similar features. The intention is to have two 1Gb FLASH devices populated (total of 256MB FLASH) which would allow as many as seven 32+4MB images [32MB = wave memory, 4MB preset memory].
> 
> What The SIMM is does mirrors up to four slots - it is actually in one slot but can respond to requests for any of the slots, but you can turn 'off' that response so you can put a physical ROM (or other FLASH) in that slot. Of cours that only accounts for 4 ROM images, the other may be accessed by either a switch or possibly in the future the OS could be modified so that there would be a menu item that allows the user to select which image appears in any given slot. The SIMM has 4 footprints for FLASH devices and if Numonyx every release a 2Gb part then the SIMM could support 1GB of FLASH or 28 images. I'm not planning on altering the OS in the near future so don't hold your breath.
> 
> Unfortunately this FLASH SIMM will probably not be programmable in the old way [Ultra for wave memory, Proteus for preset memory] so I need to also produce another board to read and write the board. This solution would be cheaper than buying an Ultra sampler but it wouldn't be a sampler!
> 
> In order to proceed I need to know if anyone is interested in this SIMM. Cost would be about USD150 for the SIMM, and about USD125 for the programmer. Not sure on the exact prices because it will depend on the PCB manufacture cost, but I figure I need to sell about 20 of them to make it worth while. Not asking for money, but just a show of hands.
> 
> Let me know what you think.
>

Re: FLASH SIMM

2010-02-19 by bobsvitilla

I am definately in if this comes together.

Re: [xl7] Re: FLASH SIMM

2010-02-20 by Atom Smasher

On Tue, 16 Feb 2010, Jack Pratt wrote:

> Although I won't advocate what amounts to piracy of EMU ROM images, 
> there would not be any reason why you could not [if you owned a 
> programmer board] read any ROM SIMM and have its image on the SIMM - 
> thereafter making the ROM SIMM redundant.
===============

if you ask emu, i wouldn't be surprised if they gave their blessings for 
copying the old ROMs. in my experience, they're cool like that, especially 
if you point out that you would only make it available unmodified and with 
full attribution. it's not like they have anything to gain from stopping 
(haha! trying to stop!) anyone, this stuff has been out of production for 
so long. they score points if they give you a nod, and unlike most 
companies, i think they understand that.


-- 
         ...atom

  ________________________
  http://atom.smasher.org/
  762A 3B98 A3C3 96C9 C6B7 582A B88D 52E4 D9F5 7808
  -------------------------------------------------

 	"The state must declare the child to be the most precious treasure
 	 of the people. As long as the government is perceived as working
 	 for the benefit of the children, the people will happily endure
 	 almost any curtailment of liberty and almost any deprivation."
 		-- Adolf Hitler, Mein Kampf

Re: [xl7] Re: FLASH SIMM

2010-02-20 by Bob S.

I doubt if they would give their blessing to copy their ROMs....more likely have their lawyer send you a letter.  The material in their ROMs are still sold in other products and Rob Papen and others still receive royalties...
 
Bob
El Segundo, CA
 
 
----- Original Message -----
From: Atom Smasher
To: xl7@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Saturday, February 20, 2010 1:09 AM
Subject: Re: [xl7] Re: FLASH SIMM

 

On Tue, 16 Feb 2010, Jack Pratt wrote:

> Although I won't advocate what amounts to piracy of EMU ROM images,
> there would not be any reason why you could not [if you owned a
> programmer board] read any ROM SIMM and have its image on the SIMM -
> thereafter making the ROM SIMM redundant.
===============

if you ask emu, i wouldn't be surprised if they gave their blessings for
copying the old ROMs. in my experience, they're cool like that, especially
if you point out that you would only make it available unmodified and with
full attribution. it's not like they have anything to gain from stopping
(haha! trying to stop!) anyone, this stuff has been out of production for
so long. they score points if they give you a nod, and unlike most
companies, i think they understand that.

--
...atom

________________________
http://atom.smasher.org/
762A 3B98 A3C3 96C9 C6B7 582A B88D 52E4 D9F5 7808
-------------------------------------------------

"The state must declare the child to be the most precious treasure
of the people. As long as the government is perceived as working
for the benefit of the children, the people will happily endure
almost any curtailment of liberty and almost any deprivation."
-- Adolf Hitler, Mein Kampf

Re: [xl7] Re: FLASH SIMM

2010-02-20 by Atom Smasher

On Sat, 20 Feb 2010, Bob S. wrote:

> I doubt if they would give their blessing to copy their ROMs....more 
> likely have their lawyer send you a letter.  The material in their ROMs 
> are still sold in other products and Rob Papen and others still receive 
> royalties...
====================

there's only one way to know...

as a practical matter, they can't stop it, but they can make themselves 
look foolish for trying. as an ideological matter, i have no objections 
about providing or receiving unauthorized copies (some would say 
"pirating") of content that's not commercially available for my hardware. 
if they still sold ROMs, then i would at least have ideological 
reservations. also, it was pointed out last time i was looking for the 
samples, that the sound samples are only a small part of what's on those 
ROMs, the rest being the settings, making them less useful without the 
right hardware.

last time i asked about getting authorized copies of the contents from 
these ROMs (that's CONTENT, not ROMs), they told me to check ebay because 
they no longer sell them.

if someone is entitled to royalties for sample libraries being currently 
sold (in a usable format), that's one thing... but being entitled to 
royalties for hardware that's been out of production for years... it's not 
my problem if they don't get paid, and i won't even feel bad about it. 
i'll be happy to take them to lunch if they visit, but i'd do that even if 
i bought their library through retail channels.


-- 
         ...atom

  ________________________
  http://atom.smasher.org/
  762A 3B98 A3C3 96C9 C6B7 582A B88D 52E4 D9F5 7808
  -------------------------------------------------

 	"Computers in the future may weigh no more than 1.5 tons."
 		-- Popular Mechanics, 1949

Re: [xl7] Re: FLASH SIMM

2010-02-20 by Atom Smasher

On Sat, 20 Feb 2010, Atom Smasher wrote:

> if someone is entitled to royalties for sample libraries being currently 
> sold (in a usable format), that's one thing... but being entitled to 
> royalties for hardware that's been out of production for years... it's 
> not my problem if they don't get paid, and i won't even feel bad about 
> it. i'll be happy to take them to lunch if they visit, but i'd do that 
> even if i bought their library through retail channels.
============

it looks like a bunch (all?) of the ROM libraries are available in other 
formats (i wasn't aware of that).

http://www.emu.com/products/category.asp?category=526&subcategory=527

are they WAV files that could be transferred to new chips? can the 
settings be translated into anything that's useful to the old hardware? if 
those can both be answered "YES" then i would endorse spending a few bucks 
on them (it looks like most of them are available for <$50US; i would have 
no practical objections to spending that on any sample library that i 
would use).

i may even be tempted to buy a couple of those even if i can't use them in 
the XL-7.... will they load into a yamaha A4000? can i use them on linux 
as WAVs? the site says "For use with Emulator X and Proteus X"... which 
isn't encouraging...

but if there are ROMs that aren't available as sample libraries... let 'er 
rip!


-- 
         ...atom

  ________________________
  http://atom.smasher.org/
  762A 3B98 A3C3 96C9 C6B7 582A B88D 52E4 D9F5 7808
  -------------------------------------------------

 	"The World Bank, IMF, and private banks have consistently
 	 lavished huge sums on terror regimes, following their
 	 displacement of democratic governments, and a number of
 	 quantitative studies have shown a systematic positive
 	 relationship between U.S. and IMF/World Bank aid to
 	 countries and their violations of human rights."
 		-- Edward S. Herman, economist,
 		U.S. media and foreign policy critic,
 		author of 'The Real Terror Network'

Re: [xl7] Re: FLASH SIMM

2010-02-20 by massimo

best not to signal any intent to support the copying of ROMs. if anything a disclaimer would be a good idea. then if users choose to flaunt the rules that's their lookout. making legit backups might handy of course ;)

Re: [xl7] Re: FLASH SIMM

2010-02-20 by massimo

^flout^ the rules, i should say. +)

--- On Sat, 20/2/10, massimo <massenmedium@...> wrote:

> best not to signal any intent to
> support the copying of ROMs. if anything a disclaimer would
> be a good idea. then if users choose to flaunt the rules
> that's their lookout. making legit backups might handy of
> course ;)

Re: FLASH SIMM

2010-02-20 by Geert

agreed.


--- In xl7@yahoogroups.com, massimo <massenmedium@...> wrote:
>
> best not to signal any intent to support the copying of ROMs. if anything a disclaimer would be a good idea. then if users choose to flaunt the rules that's their lookout. making legit backups might handy of course ;)
>

Re: FLASH SIMM

2010-02-22 by Rob

I'm in too.  I'd love to see this happen.

--- In xl7@yahoogroups.com, "Geert" <geert_depuydt@...> wrote:
>
> definately in.
> 
> --- In xl7@yahoogroups.com, Jack Pratt <woodsworth1@> wrote:
> >
> > Howdy.
> > 
> > I have created a schematic for a FLASH SIMM. I can send a copy to anyone who is sufficiently interested (rather than posting it to everyone [which I thought would be bad etiquette]) - so pm me if you want to see it.
> > 
> > This FLASH SIMM is not the same as DRAM SIMM mentioned previously, but has some similar features. The intention is to have two 1Gb FLASH devices populated (total of 256MB FLASH) which would allow as many as seven 32+4MB images [32MB = wave memory, 4MB preset memory].
> > 
> > What The SIMM is does mirrors up to four slots - it is actually in one slot but can respond to requests for any of the slots, but you can turn 'off' that response so you can put a physical ROM (or other FLASH) in that slot. Of cours that only accounts for 4 ROM images, the other may be accessed by either a switch or possibly in the future the OS could be modified so that there would be a menu item that allows the user to select which image appears in any given slot. The SIMM has 4 footprints for FLASH devices and if Numonyx every release a 2Gb part then the SIMM could support 1GB of FLASH or 28 images. I'm not planning on altering the OS in the near future so don't hold your breath.
> > 
> > Unfortunately this FLASH SIMM will probably not be programmable in the old way [Ultra for wave memory, Proteus for preset memory] so I need to also produce another board to read and write the board. This solution would be cheaper than buying an Ultra sampler but it wouldn't be a sampler!
> > 
> > In order to proceed I need to know if anyone is interested in this SIMM. Cost would be about USD150 for the SIMM, and about USD125 for the programmer. Not sure on the exact prices because it will depend on the PCB manufacture cost, but I figure I need to sell about 20 of them to make it worth while. Not asking for money, but just a show of hands.
> > 
> > Let me know what you think.
> >
>

Re: FLASH SIMM

2010-02-23 by AndyJ

Keep on it man. This is very exciting. 

I'm tired of the 4 ROM limit and the small available flash ROMs. The biggest hurdle is probably getting the OS of the modules to recognize new hardware like that. That's what sucks about my EmaxII. It will have 8MB of RAM and 99 HD banks forever since the OS is closed and the SIMMS are proprietary. Grrrr.

--- In xl7@yahoogroups.com, "Rob" <awol9000@...> wrote:
>
> I'm in too.  I'd love to see this happen.
> 
> --- In xl7@yahoogroups.com, "Geert" <geert_depuydt@> wrote:
> >
> > definately in.
> > 
> > --- In xl7@yahoogroups.com, Jack Pratt <woodsworth1@> wrote:
> > >
> > > Howdy.
> > > 
> > > I have created a schematic for a FLASH SIMM. I can send a copy to anyone who is sufficiently interested (rather than posting it to everyone [which I thought would be bad etiquette]) - so pm me if you want to see it.
> > > 
> > > This FLASH SIMM is not the same as DRAM SIMM mentioned previously, but has some similar features. The intention is to have two 1Gb FLASH devices populated (total of 256MB FLASH) which would allow as many as seven 32+4MB images [32MB = wave memory, 4MB preset memory].
> > > 
> > > What The SIMM is does mirrors up to four slots - it is actually in one slot but can respond to requests for any of the slots, but you can turn 'off' that response so you can put a physical ROM (or other FLASH) in that slot. Of cours that only accounts for 4 ROM images, the other may be accessed by either a switch or possibly in the future the OS could be modified so that there would be a menu item that allows the user to select which image appears in any given slot. The SIMM has 4 footprints for FLASH devices and if Numonyx every release a 2Gb part then the SIMM could support 1GB of FLASH or 28 images. I'm not planning on altering the OS in the near future so don't hold your breath.
> > > 
> > > Unfortunately this FLASH SIMM will probably not be programmable in the old way [Ultra for wave memory, Proteus for preset memory] so I need to also produce another board to read and write the board. This solution would be cheaper than buying an Ultra sampler but it wouldn't be a sampler!
> > > 
> > > In order to proceed I need to know if anyone is interested in this SIMM. Cost would be about USD150 for the SIMM, and about USD125 for the programmer. Not sure on the exact prices because it will depend on the PCB manufacture cost, but I figure I need to sell about 20 of them to make it worth while. Not asking for money, but just a show of hands.
> > > 
> > > Let me know what you think.
> > >
> >
>

Re: [xl7] Re: FLASH SIMM

2010-12-18 by dans party



--- On Sat, 5/1/80, Ivan Chaparro wrote:

From: Ivan Chaparro
Subject: Re: [xl7] Re: FLASH SIMM
To: xl7@yahoogroups.com
Received: Saturday, 5 January, 1980, 8:37 AM

�

Im in, just wondering if you could clarify how this would integrate into a maxed out command station. Eg: all four roms filled will i have to sacrifice one? will it just pop into one of the existing slots?
----- Original Message -----
From: Geert
Sent: Tuesday, February 16, 2010 9:47 AM
Subject: [xl7] Re: FLASH SIMM

�

definately in.

--- In xl7@yahoogroups. com, Jack Pratt wrote:
>
> Howdy.
>
> I have created�a schematic for a FLASH SIMM. I can send a copy to anyone who is sufficiently interested�(rather than posting it to everyone [which I thought would be bad etiquette]) - so pm me if you want to see it.
>
> This FLASH SIMM is not the same as DRAM SIMM mentioned previously, but has some similar features. The intention is to have two 1Gb FLASH devices populated (total of 256MB FLASH) which would allow as many as seven 32+4MB images [32MB = wave memory, 4MB preset memory].
>
> What The SIMM is does mirrors�up to�four slots - it is actually in one slot but can respond to requests for any of the slots, but you can turn 'off' that response so you can put a physical ROM (or other FLASH) in that slot. Of cours that only accounts for 4 ROM images, the other may be accessed by either a switch or possibly in the future the OS could be modified so that there would be a menu item that allows the user to select which�image appears in any given slot. The SIMM has 4 footprints for FLASH devices and if Numonyx every release a 2Gb part then the�SIMM could support 1GB of FLASH or 28 images. I'm not planning on altering the OS�in the near future�so don't hold your breath.
>
> Unfortunately this FLASH SIMM will probably not be programmable in the old way [Ultra for wave memory, Proteus for preset memory] so I need to also produce another board to read and write the board. This solution would be cheaper than buying an Ultra sampler but it wouldn't be a sampler!
>
> In order to proceed I need to know if anyone is interested in this SIMM. Cost would be about USD150 for the SIMM, and about USD125 for the programmer. Not sure on the exact prices because it will depend on the PCB manufacture cost, but I figure I need to sell about 20 of them to make it worth while. Not asking for money, but�just a show of hands.
>
> Let me know what you think.
>


�

Re: [xl7] Re: FLASH SIMM

2010-12-18 by gary higgins

My response would be....Who would not be interested if this were truly�available...

----- dans party wrote:
>

>;

>

>

>

>

>

>;

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>�

>

>

>

>


> ��

> ��

>



--- On Sat, 5/1/80, Ivan Chaparro wrote:


From: Ivan Chaparro
Subject: Re: [xl7] Re: FLASH SIMM
To: xl7@yahoogroups.com
Received: Saturday, 5 January, 1980, 8:37 AM



>

>

>

>

>

>�

>

>

>

>


> ��

> ��

>



>

>

>

Im in, just wondering if you could clarify how this

> would integrate into a maxed out command station. Eg: all four roms filled will

> i have to sacrifice one? will it just pop into one of the existing

> slots?


>


>
----- Original Message -----


>
From:

>Geert


>

>
Sent: Tuesday, February 16, 2010 9:47

>�� AM


>
Subject: [xl7] Re: FLASH SIMM


>
�

>


>

definately in.

--- In xl7@yahoogroups. com, Jack Pratt

>�� wrote:
>
> Howdy.
>
> I

>�� have created�a schematic for a FLASH SIMM. I can send a copy to anyone

>�� who is sufficiently interested�(rather than posting it to everyone [which

>�� I thought would be bad etiquette]) - so pm me if you want to see it.
>

>
> This FLASH SIMM is not the same as DRAM SIMM mentioned previously,

>�� but has some similar features. The intention is to have two 1Gb FLASH devices

>�� populated (total of 256MB FLASH) which would allow as many as seven 32+4MB

>�� images [32MB = wave memory, 4MB preset memory].
>
> What The SIMM

>�� is does mirrors�up to�four slots - it is actually in one slot but

>�� can respond to requests for any of the slots, but you can turn 'off' that

>�� response so you can put a physical ROM (or other FLASH) in that slot. Of cours

>�� that only accounts for 4 ROM images, the other may be accessed by either a

>�� switch or possibly in the future the OS could be modified so that there would

>�  be a menu item that allows the user to select which�image appears in any

>�� given slot. The SIMM has 4 footprints for FLASH devices and if Numonyx every

>�� release a 2Gb part then the�SIMM could support 1GB of FLASH or 28 images.

>�� I'm not planning on altering the OS�in the near future so don't hold

>�� your breath.
>
> Unfortunately this FLASH SIMM will probably not

>�� be programmable in the old way [Ultra for wave memory, Proteus for preset

>�� memory] so I need to also produce another board to read and write the board.

>�� This solution would be cheaper than buying an Ultra sampler but it wouldn't be

>�� a sampler!
>
> In order to proceed I need to know if anyone is

>�� interested in this SIMM. Cost would be about USD150 for the SIMM, and about

>�� USD125 for the programmer. Not sure on the exact prices because it will depend

>�  on the PCB manufacture cost, but I figure I need to sell about 20 of them to

>�� make it worth while. Not asking for money, but�just a show of

>�� hands.
>
> Let me know what you think.
>



>


>

>


> ��

>

>

>

>��

>

>

>



>

>

>

> �� �



>

>


> ��

>

>

>;

>

>

>

>

>

>

Re: FLASH SIMM

2010-12-20 by duncan

jack, I'm definitely still in, & would go for multiple units- say 4 or 5, + the programmer. I have two P2ks, a PE, a virtuoso & an XL7. I have been making flash sticks using an ultra 6400, but I only (!) have three of the 32MB & one of the 16MB. 

duncan.

Re: FLASH SIMM

2010-12-20 by electric-motion@hotmail.com

Hi Jack,

I'm in too.

I "just" own an XL7 but i'm more than interested.

I live in Belgium, Brussels. 

Just let me know how/when i could contribute to the project.

Also interested about getting a copy of the schematics.

Many thanks for your work.

Geoffrey


--- In xl7@yahoogroups.com, Jack Pratt <woodsworth1@...> wrote:
>
> Howdy.
> 
> I have created a schematic for a FLASH SIMM. I can send a copy to anyone who is sufficiently interested (rather than posting it to everyone [which I thought would be bad etiquette]) - so pm me if you want to see it.
> 
> This FLASH SIMM is not the same as DRAM SIMM mentioned previously, but has some similar features. The intention is to have two 1Gb FLASH devices populated (total of 256MB FLASH) which would allow as many as seven 32+4MB images [32MB = wave memory, 4MB preset memory].
> 
> What The SIMM is does mirrors up to four slots - it is actually in one slot but can respond to requests for any of the slots, but you can turn 'off' that response so you can put a physical ROM (or other FLASH) in that slot. Of cours that only accounts for 4 ROM images, the other may be accessed by either a switch or possibly in the future the OS could be modified so that there would be a menu item that allows the user to select which image appears in any given slot. The SIMM has 4 footprints for FLASH devices and if Numonyx every release a 2Gb part then the SIMM could support 1GB of FLASH or 28 images. I'm not planning on altering the OS in the near future so don't hold your breath.
> 
> Unfortunately this FLASH SIMM will probably not be programmable in the old way [Ultra for wave memory, Proteus for preset memory] so I need to also produce another board to read and write the board. This solution would be cheaper than buying an Ultra sampler but it wouldn't be a sampler!
> 
> In order to proceed I need to know if anyone is interested in this SIMM. Cost would be about USD150 for the SIMM, and about USD125 for the programmer. Not sure on the exact prices because it will depend on the PCB manufacture cost, but I figure I need to sell about 20 of them to make it worth while. Not asking for money, but just a show of hands.
> 
> Let me know what you think.
>

Re: [xl7] Re: FLASH SIMM

2010-12-31 by Jeremy Bolton

Hi,

This sounds awesome. One please- maybe a couple of the Flash roms

Good Luck

Jeremy

On 19 December 2010 02:34, gary higgins <heyrag@...> wrote:
 

My response would be....Who would not be interested if this were truly available...



----- dans party <danielcomiskey@...> wrote:
>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

> 

>

>

>

>


>   

>   

>



--- On Sat, 5/1/80, Ivan Chaparro <jibarosoul@...> wrote:


From: Ivan Chaparro <jibarosoul@...>
Subject: Re: [xl7] Re: FLASH SIMM
To: xl7@yahoogroups.com
Received: Saturday, 5 January, 1980, 8:37 AM



>

>

>

>

>

> 

>

>

>

>


>   

>   

>



>

>

>

Im in, just wondering if you could clarify how this

> would integrate into a maxed out command station. Eg: all four roms filled will

> i have to sacrifice one? will it just pop into one of the existing

> slots?


>


>
----- Original Message -----


>
From:

>Geert


>

>
Sent: Tuesday, February 16, 2010 9:47

>   AM


>
Subject: [xl7] Re: FLASH SIMM


>
 

>


>

definately in.

--- In xl7@yahoogroups. com, Jack Pratt

>   <;woodsworth1@ ...> wrote:
>
> Howdy.
>
> I

>   have created a schematic for a FLASH SIMM. I can send a copy to anyone

>   who is sufficiently interested (rather than posting it to everyone [which

>   I thought would be bad etiquette]) - so pm me if you want to see it.
>

>
>; This FLASH SIMM is not the same as DRAM SIMM mentioned previously,

>   but has some similar features. The intention is to have two 1Gb FLASH devices

>   populated (total of 256MB FLASH) which would allow as many as seven 32+4MB

>   images [32MB = wave memory, 4MB preset memory].
>
> What The SIMM

>   is does mirrors up to four slots - it is actually in one slot but

>   can respond to requests for any of the slots, but you can turn 'off' that

>   response so you can put a physical ROM (or other FLASH) in that slot. Of cours

>   that only accounts for 4 ROM images, the other may be accessed by either a

>   switch or possibly in the future the OS could be modified so that there would

>   be a menu item that allows the user to select which image appears in any

>   given slot. The SIMM has 4 footprints for FLASH devices and if Numonyx every

>   release a 2Gb part then the SIMM could support 1GB of FLASH or 28 images.

>   I'm not planning on altering the OS in the near future so don't hold

>   your breath.
>
> Unfortunately this FLASH SIMM will probably not

>   be programmable in the old way [Ultra for wave memory, Proteus for preset

>   memory] so I need to also produce another board to read and write the board.

>   This solution would be cheaper than buying an Ultra sampler but it wouldn't be

>   a sampler!
>
> In order to proceed I need to know if anyone is

>   interested in this SIMM. Cost would be about USD150 for the SIMM, and about

>   USD125 for the programmer. Not sure on the exact prices because it will depend

>   on the PCB manufacture cost, but I figure I need to sell about 20 of them to

>   make it worth while. Not asking for money, but just a show of

>;   hands.
>
> Let me know what you think.
>



>


>

>


>   

>

>

>

>  

>

>

>



>

>

>

>     

>

>



>   

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>


Re: FLASH SIMM

2011-01-02 by rweidne

pardon my newbieishness, if this is a way of getting a hold of more rom sounds on my px-7 (currently with the single rom chip) i am interested.....

--- In xl7@yahoogroups.com, Jeremy Bolton <jboltnz@...> wrote:
>
> Hi,
> 
> This sounds awesome. One please- maybe a couple of the Flash roms
> 
> Good Luck
> 
> Jeremy
> 
> On 19 December 2010 02:34, gary higgins <heyrag@...> wrote:
> 
> >
> >
> > My response would be....Who would *not* be interested if this were
> > truly available...
> >
> >
> > ----- dans party <danielcomiskey@...> wrote:
> > >
> >
> > >
> >
> > >
> >
> > >
> >
> > >
> >
> > >
> >
> > >
> >
> > >
> >
> > >
> >
> > >
> >
> > >
> >
> > >
> >
> > >
> >
> > >
> >
> > >
> >
> > >
> >
> > >
> >
> > >
> >
> > >
> >
> > >
> >
> >
> > >
> >
> > >
> >
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> > --- On *Sat, 5/1/80, Ivan Chaparro <jibarosoul@...>* wrote:
> >
> >
> > From: Ivan Chaparro <jibarosoul@...>
> > Subject: Re: [xl7] Re: FLASH SIMM
> > To: xl7@yahoogroups.com
> > Received: Saturday, 5 January, 1980, 8:37 AM
> >
> >
> >
> > >
> >
> > >
> >
> > >
> >
> > >
> >
> > >
> >
> > >
> >
> > >
> >
> > >
> >
> > >
> >
> > >
> >
> >
> > >
> >
> > >
> >
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> > >
> >
> > >
> >
> > >
> > Im in, just wondering if you could clarify how this
> >
> > > would integrate into a maxed out command station. Eg: all four roms
> > filled will
> >
> > > i have to sacrifice one? will it just pop into one of the existing
> >
> > > slots?
> >
> >
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> > >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> >
> >
> > >
> > *From:*
> >
> > >Geert <http://mc/compose?to=geert_depuydt@...>
> >
> >
> > >
> > *To:*xl7@yahoogroups. com <http://mc/compose?to=xl7@yahoogroups.com>
> >
> >
> > >
> > *Sent:* Tuesday, February 16, 2010 9:47
> >
> > >   AM
> >
> >
> > >
> > *Subject:* [xl7] Re: FLASH SIMM
> >
> >
> > >
> >
> >
> > >
> >
> >
> > >
> >
> > definately in.
> >
> > --- In xl7@yahoogroups. com <http://mc/compose?to=xl7@yahoogroups.com>,
> > Jack Pratt
> >
> > >   <woodsworth1@ ...> wrote:
> > >
> > > Howdy.
> > >
> > > I
> >
> > >   have created a schematic for a FLASH SIMM. I can send a copy to anyone
> >
> > >   who is sufficiently interested (rather than posting it to everyone
> > [which
> >
> > >   I thought would be bad etiquette]) - so pm me if you want to see it.
> > >
> >
> > >
> > > This FLASH SIMM is not the same as DRAM SIMM mentioned previously,
> >
> > >   but has some similar features. The intention is to have two 1Gb FLASH
> > devices
> >
> > >   populated (total of 256MB FLASH) which would allow as many as seven
> > 32+4MB
> >
> > >   images [32MB = wave memory, 4MB preset memory].
> > >
> > > What The SIMM
> >
> > >   is does mirrors up to four slots - it is actually in one slot but
> >
> > >   can respond to requests for any of the slots, but you can turn 'off'
> > that
> >
> > >   response so you can put a physical ROM (or other FLASH) in that slot.
> > Of cours
> >
> > >   that only accounts for 4 ROM images, the other may be accessed by
> > either a
> >
> > >   switch or possibly in the future the OS could be modified so that there
> > would
> >
> > >   be a menu item that allows the user to select which image appears in
> > any
> >
> > >   given slot. The SIMM has 4 footprints for FLASH devices and if Numonyx
> > every
> >
> > >   release a 2Gb part then the SIMM could support 1GB of FLASH or 28
> > images.
> >
> > >   I'm not planning on altering the OS in the near future so don't hold
> >
> > >   your breath.
> > >
> > > Unfortunately this FLASH SIMM will probably not
> >
> > >   be programmable in the old way [Ultra for wave memory, Proteus for
> > preset
> >
> > >   memory] so I need to also produce another board to read and write the
> > board.
> >
> > >   This solution would be cheaper than buying an Ultra sampler but it
> > wouldn't be
> >
> > >   a sampler!
> > >
> > > In order to proceed I need to know if anyone is
> >
> > >   interested in this SIMM. Cost would be about USD150 for the SIMM, and
> > about
> >
> > >   USD125 for the programmer. Not sure on the exact prices because it will
> > depend
> >
> > >   on the PCB manufacture cost, but I figure I need to sell about 20 of
> > them to
> >
> > >   make it worth while. Not asking for money, but just a show of
> >
> > >   hands.
> > >
> > > Let me know what you think.
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> > >
> >
> > >
> >
> >
> > >
> >
> > >
> >
> > >
> >
> > >
> >
> > >
> >
> > >
> >
> > >
> >
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > >
> >
> > >
> >
> > >
> >
> > >
> >
> > >
> >
> > >
> >
> >
> > >
> >
> > >
> >
> > >
> >
> > >
> >
> > >
> >
> > >
> >
> > >
> >
> > >
> >
> > >
> >
> > >
> >
> >  
> >
>

Re: [xl7] Re: FLASH SIMM

2011-01-02 by Bruno

2011/1/2 rweidne <kazukoric@...>:
> pardon my newbieishness, if this is a way of getting a hold of more rom sounds on my px-7 (currently with the single rom chip) i am interested.....

You can get more ROM sounds just by buying more ROMs - mostly on ebay,
and most of the time they are heavily overpriced. There is also a
possibility of "burning" your own Flash ROM using the E-mu Ultra
samplers and E-mu proprietary Flash ROMs (if case the previous method
was not expensive enough).

The advantage of USB-Flash would be to put it once and emulate up to
four ROMs, as well as swapping the ROM content of your device without
opening the case.

Bruno

Re: [xl7] Re: FLASH SIMM

2011-01-02 by Bob S.

I don't know why many consider $50 to $150 as "heavily overpriced" for ROMs.....that is still less than the original price for those ROMs and certainly worth it for about 500 new samples that are based in a hardware ROM, plus some presets to boot.  There are plenty of ROMs for less than $130 out there and I would not wait on your music on the hope of something a few dollars cheaper, even if reusable/reloadable.  When the universal Flash SIMM is available, it will be just one more tool, not the only tool.  And there still needs to be beta tested prototypes on the Universal Flash SIMMs and software to load and translate common files and that seems still a while away....
 
I paid about $50 for my last Xtreme Lead ROM and that has plenty of material to work with....Emu has put much time and effort in squeezing so many samples into the 32MB.  I have Flash ROMs with my own sounds using the Emu Flash SIMM and an Ultra sampler but have only been able to put a small fraction of the number of samples into the 32MB space so I still predominately use the commercial ROMs.  There is so much processing available in the P2000/Command Station series that 2 people can use the same sample and create an entirely different sound and atmosphere....
 
Bob
El Segundo, CA
 
 
----- Original Message -----
From: Bruno
To: xl7@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Sunday, January 02, 2011 10:35
Subject: Re: [xl7] Re: FLASH SIMM

 

2011/1/2 rweidne <kazukoric@...>:
> pardon my newbieishness, if this is a way of getting a hold of more rom sounds on my px-7 (currently with the single rom chip) i am interested.....

You can get more ROM sounds just by buying more ROMs - mostly on ebay,
and most of the time they are heavily overpriced. There is also a
possibility of "burning" your own Flash ROM using the E-mu Ultra
samplers and E-mu proprietary Flash ROMs (if case the previous method
was not expensive enough).

The advantage of USB-Flash would be to put it once and emulate up to
four ROMs, as well as swapping the ROM content of your device without
opening the case.

Bruno

Re: [xl7] Re: FLASH SIMM

2011-01-02 by Bruno

2011/1/2 Bob S. <tttsystems@...>
> I don't know why many consider $50 to $150 as "heavily overpriced" for ROMs.....that is still less than the original price for those ROMs

But we're talking about the product line that is already dead since 10
years or more. And frankly, you can buy the same samples on CD for a
fraction of price. So what you pay for, is the ability to put those
samples in your box, based on no longer supported technology.

BTW: there's a guy on Yamaha forums, who works on super-duper, 16-in-1
memory cards for Yamaha synths/modules. Its release would definitely
dramatically cut the prices of all the memory cards already present on
the market. Everyone knows this, ane everyone rejoices.

> I paid about $50 for my last Xtreme Lead ROM

...and this is probably the only ROM one can get for 50$.

Just look at Ensoniq Fizmo - it has some drawbacks, but since only 500
were produced, you can ask any price for it on the second hand market.
Personally, I'd like to play with as many interesting synths as
possible, without spending a fortune. And buying any (overpriced)
legend from the previous owner doesn't bring any benefit to its
creators, so it's irrelevant in terms of "appreciating the quality and
uniqueness".

Moreover, E-mu was kind enough to sell the same sounds many times,
e.g. pizzicato sounds from P2K can be found in Mo'Phatt etc. I bought
Protozoa ROM for my P2K mostly to patch some holes in my orchestral
layout (e.g. french horn, bassoon) and it made sense from the
economical point of view at that time, the ROM has earned its price
for me. It doesn't change the fact, that a lot of basic samples are
similar.

Still loving my P2K with Protozoa, though.

After all, if any of us were able to buy World Expedition, Holy Grail
and Protean Drums for 50$ each, we would probably do it without even
thinking twice - assuming we hadn't had bought it already ;-)

Best Regards,
Bruno

[xl7] Re: FLASH SIMM

2011-01-02 by Ian Lamb

➢ I don't know why many consider $50 to $150 as "heavily overpriced" for ROMs.....

Most likely, it is because they have a different hierarchy of values than you.

➢ that is still less than the original price for those ROMs and certainly worth it for about 500 new samples that are based in a hardware ROM, plus some presets to boot.

I paid less than that for a couple of ROMs from E-mu, but your point is well-taken here.

➢ There are plenty of ROMs for less than $130 out there and I would not wait on your music on the hope of something a few dollars cheaper, even if reusable/reloadable.  When the universal Flash SIMM is available, it will be just one more tool, not the only tool.  And there still needs to be beta tested prototypes on the Universal Flash SIMMs and software to load and translate common files and that seems still a while away....

Fair call – if one has need now, then choose and work with what is available now. That said, I can also understand and appreciate that many have an idea of and a rough plan for what could be accomplished with the arrival of a user-programmable Flash SIMM whose capabilities and function are a superset of anything previously offered by E-mu.

➢ I paid about $50 for my last Xtreme Lead ROM and that has plenty of material to work with....Emu has put much time and effort in squeezing so many samples into the 32MB.

That is one aspect of the E-mu ROMs that I hope to address with the user-programmable Flash SIMM – to have a waveform set that focuses on quality rather than quantity.

I very much like the wavesets in the VintagePro and the ProteanDrums ROMs, as well as the Audity2K portion of the XL-ROM, but the old Orbit and Phatt wavesets have too many single-cycles without enough multisampling to my ear.

➢ I have Flash ROMs with my own sounds using the Emu Flash SIMM and an Ultra sampler but have only been able to put a small fraction of the number of samples into the 32MB space so I still predominately use the commercial ROMs.  There is so much processing available in the P2000/Command Station series that 2 people can use the same sample and create an entirely different sound and atmosphere....

I agree, but in the end, user choice as to the quality, quantity, and nature of samples brings the greatest potential power to the E-mu P2K systems.


cheers,
Ian

Re: [xl7] Re: FLASH SIMM

2011-01-02 by Jack Pratt

I wonder if you could point me in the direction of this yamaha forum? I was planning (for a future project in creating a 128MB SR-JV80 module which would hold (strangely enough) 16 x 8MB SR-JV80 images.

My plan was to also allow it to be programmable via USB, and write some software as a librarian which would allow the user to have a library of all the presets that are available, then to select which ones they want to use with the software automatically packing the corresponding waveforms into a ROM image. In that way you can put the presets that you want to hear into the single image that you want to use.

Of course there's no point in me doing it if someone else is doing the same or similar. I have 18 (of 19 [if you don't includes the "experience" and the japanese latin variant]) SR-JV80 ROMs but my trusty old JV-2080 only has 8 sockets :-( And I really like some of the presets on the old thing so some way of throwing them together into a single custom image would be very useful.

Also the price for some is about $40 but others are asking $200 for less common ones. I think that some price relief would be welcome!!

--

Strangely enough I hadn't thought of doing the same thing for the proteus ROMs until just now. Would anyone be particularly interested in some librarian software that:
� - keeps a repository of all possible waveforms (from ROMs or other sources)
� - tracks presets that use the waveforms
� - keeps a repository of demos, beats, arpeggios etc
� - allows you to select presets (or waveforms) in any order
� - shows you which preset you can get "for free" (ie use waveforms already included due to other selected presets)
� - packs the waveforms into a ROM image (up to 32MB)
� - allows you to select demos and other extras together with presets (up to 4MB)
� - allows you to transfer your custom images to the FLASH ROM

I suppose the first use of such software would be to combine the Protozoa and Holy Grail ROMs into a single image (Holy-Zoa or Proto-Grail), but I was going to do that anyway.

From: Bruno
To: xl7@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Mon, January 3, 2011 6:52:18 AM
Subject: Re: [xl7] Re: FLASH SIMM

�

BTW: there's a guy on Yamaha forums, who works on super-duper, 16-in-1
memory cards for Yamaha synths/modules. Its release would definitely
dramatically cut the prices of all the memory cards already present on
the market. Everyone knows this, ane everyone rejoices.


Re: [xl7] Re: FLASH SIMM

2011-01-03 by Ian Lamb

On Sun, Jan 2, 2011 at 5:14 PM, Jack Pratt <woodsworth1@...> wrote:
 

I wonder if you could point me in the direction of this yamaha forum? I was planning (for a future project in creating a 128MB SR-JV80 module which would hold (strangely enough) 16 x 8MB SR-JV80 images.

Since I don't use a Yamaha ROM-based synth module (though I do use an A5000 and FS1R), I wouldn't have interest in such a thing, but a card that held 16 x 8MB SR-JV80 images would be absolutely fabulous for my Roland JD-990, both in general, and because it only has one slot.
 
Strangely enough I hadn't thought of doing the same thing for the proteus ROMs until just now. Would anyone be particularly interested in some librarian software that:
  - keeps a repository of all possible waveforms (from ROMs or other sources)
  - tracks presets that use the waveforms
  - keeps a repository of demos, beats, arpeggios etc
  - allows you to select presets (or waveforms) in any order
  - shows you which preset you can get "for free" (ie use waveforms already included due to other selected presets)
  - packs the waveforms into a ROM image (up to 32MB)
  - allows you to select demos and other extras together with presets (up to 4MB)
  - allows you to transfer your custom images to the FLASH ROM

I suppose the first use of such software would be to combine the Protozoa and Holy Grail ROMs into a single image (Holy-Zoa or Proto-Grail), but I was going to do that anyway.

I wouldn't have much use for it since I tend to program my own patches on my XL-7. That said, the idea of it is quite nice, and I think it would be a good thing for many.

But yeah, a 128MB programmable card for Roland's SR-JV-80-slot-based machines? That would be good fun!


cheers,
Ian

Re: [xl7] Re: FLASH SIMM

2011-01-03 by Jack Pratt

I was actually thinking of roland, but I have yamaha gear too...

Also I wasn't thinking of providing special support for the non-JV80 equipment (since I don't have any for checking purposes). Still 16 ROMs would be 16 ROMs...

From: Ian Lamb
To: xl7@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Mon, January 3, 2011 10:24:33 AM
Subject: Re: [xl7] Re: FLASH SIMM

Since I don't use a Yamaha ROM-based synth module (though I do use an A5000 and FS1R), I wouldn't have interest in such a thing, but a card that held 16 x 8MB SR-JV80 images would be absolutely fabulous for my Roland JD-990, both in general, and because it only has one slot.

Re: [xl7] Re: FLASH SIMM

2011-01-04 by D F Tweedie

Jack et al.,
�
I'm sorry to intrude my pointy little software head in here ... but I can't resist.
�
I hope there is a shorter answer than RTBFM.
�
Anyway, I had never programmed patches ... being a thoroughly low-life preset surfer. But after working with Emulator X3 for a couple of weeks, I've discovered a few things that really pique my curiousity about patch programming in the CS/ P2K world..
�
Here's my question: with hardware patches, can you copy all the preset parameters and
simply assign different samples to a new preset? Or, do you have to start from scratch every time?
�;
I discovered in Emulator X that I can load up a factory preset that I like the programming for and rip a 'template' of the entire voicing and also a 'template' of the mod matrix that goes with that preset ... then simply load the samples I want to the keyboard and save it. Sometimes a little tweading with the ASDR or something else is in order, but frequently the new preset with my samples sounds great from the go.
 
With that background in mind, I was wondering if there was some similar 'template' creating from the CS or P2K patches to which samples could be added, changed out, etc.
�
I was also wondering ... haven't looked that deeply in the manual yet ... whether since Emulator X3 includes the standard Emu 'cords' design, whether it would lend itself to some translation process for creating presets as you envision with the USB flash ROM.
�
I suspect my questions may reflect deep ignorance. If so 'learn me' and I'll happily do my punishment standing in the corner with�my cool hat. You know, like the one Mickey had in Fantasia ... but without all the stars.
�
DF
CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This communication with its contents may contain confidential and/or legally privileged information. It is solely for the use of the intended recipient(s). Unauthorized interception, review, use or disclosure is prohibited and may violate applicable laws including the Electronic Communications Privacy Act. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender and destroy all copies of the communication.

--- On Mon, 1/3/11, Jack Pratt wrote:

From: Jack Pratt <woodsworth1@...>
Subject: Re: [xl7] Re: FLASH SIMM
To: xl7@yahoogroups.com
Date: Monday, January 3, 2011, 1:17 AM

�
I was actually thinking of roland, but I have yamaha gear too...

Also I wasn't thinking of providing special support for the non-JV80 equipment (since I don't have any for checking purposes). Still 16 ROMs would be 16 ROMs...

From: Ian Lamb
To: xl7@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Mon, January 3, 2011 10:24:33 AM
Subject: Re: [xl7] Re: FLASH SIMM

Since I don't use a Yamaha ROM-based synth module (though I do use an A5000 and FS1R), I wouldn't have interest in such a thing, but a card that held 16 x 8MB SR-JV80 images would be absolutely fabulous for my Roland JD-990, both in general, and because it only has one slot.


Re: FLASH SIMM

2011-01-04 by Royce

DF
> Here's my question: with hardware patches, can you copy all the preset parameters and 
> simply assign different samples to a new preset? Or, do you have to start from scratch every time?

Grab an editor (Jan's Prodatum will run on Mac and PC) 
Select the preset that matches closely and go the the voice pages and change the waves.

A good starting point for a career as a sound designer.

I prefer an editor to the manual to work out what's under the hood. 

Royce

Re: [xl7] Re: FLASH SIMM

2011-01-04 by Atom Smasher

On Mon, 3 Jan 2011, D F Tweedie wrote:

> Here's my question: with hardware patches, can you copy all the preset 
> parameters and simply assign different samples to a new preset? Or, do 
> you have to start from scratch every time?
====================

  1) copy the patch (aka "preset") to a new location
  2) edit the newly saved patch and change just the samples (aka 
"instruments") if that's all you need


> With that background in mind, I was wondering if there was some similar 
> 'template' creating from the CS or P2K patches to which samples could be 
> added, changed out, etc.
==============

i've saved a "blank" patch that i use as a starting point.


> the standard Emu 'cords' design, whether it would lend itself to some 
> translation process for creating presets as you envision with the USB 
> flash ROM.
================

i'm not sure i understand the question. when the USB-ROM comes along, 
you'll still be able to use the full force, fury and power of the cs/p2k 
engine to edit the samples that you put in the flash-ROM.


-- 
         ...atom

  ________________________
  http://atom.smasher.org/
  762A 3B98 A3C3 96C9 C6B7 582A B88D 52E4 D9F5 7808
  -------------------------------------------------

 	"The lawgiver, of all beings, most owes the law allegiance.
 	 He of all men should behave as though the law compelled him.
 	 But it is the universal weakness of mankind that what we are
 	 given to administer we presently imagine we own."
 		-- H.G. Wells

Re: FLASH SIMM

2011-01-31 by christen

Hey Jack,

 I am definitely interested in such a product - feel free to put me on any mailing list to let me know when it becomes available.

Cheers,
Andrew

--- In xl7@yahoogroups.com, Ian Lamb <ianblamb@...> wrote:
>
> ➢ I don't know why many consider $50 to $150 as "heavily overpriced" for
> ROMs.....
> 
> Most likely, it is because they have a different hierarchy of values than
> you.
> 
> ➢ that is still less than the original price for those ROMs and certainly
> worth it for about 500 new samples that are based in a hardware ROM, plus
> some presets to boot.
> 
> I paid less than that for a couple of ROMs from E-mu, but your point is
> well-taken here.
> 
> ➢ There are plenty of ROMs for less than $130 out there and I would not wait
> on your music on the hope of something a few dollars cheaper, even if
> reusable/reloadable.  When the universal Flash SIMM is available, it will be
> just one more tool, not the only tool.  And there still needs to be beta
> tested prototypes on the Universal Flash SIMMs and software to load and
> translate common files and that seems still a while away....
> 
> Fair call â€" if one has need now, then choose and work with what is available
> now. That said, I can also understand and appreciate that many have an idea
> of and a rough plan for what could be accomplished with the arrival of a
> user-programmable Flash SIMM whose capabilities and function are a superset
> of anything previously offered by E-mu.
> 
> ➢ I paid about $50 for my last Xtreme Lead ROM and that has plenty of
> material to work with....Emu has put much time and effort in squeezing so
> many samples into the 32MB.
> 
> That is one aspect of the E-mu ROMs that I hope to address with the
> user-programmable Flash SIMM â€" to have a waveform set that focuses on
> quality rather than quantity.
> 
> I very much like the wavesets in the VintagePro and the ProteanDrums ROMs,
> as well as the Audity2K portion of the XL-ROM, but the old Orbit and Phatt
> wavesets have too many single-cycles without enough multisampling to my ear.
> 
> ➢ I have Flash ROMs with my own sounds using the Emu Flash SIMM and an Ultra
> sampler but have only been able to put a small fraction of the number of
> samples into the 32MB space so I still predominately use the commercial
> ROMs.  There is so much processing available in the P2000/Command Station
> series that 2 people can use the same sample and create an entirely
> different sound and atmosphere....
> 
> I agree, but in the end, user choice as to the quality, quantity, and nature
> of samples brings the greatest potential power to the E-mu P2K systems.
> 
> 
> cheers,
> Ian
>

Re: [xl7] Re: FLASH SIMM

2011-01-31 by Matt

Is there any update on this? I am very excited to use my own wave forms.
Thanks again
-matt

On Jan 31, 2011 4:11 AM, "christen" <andrewmcnaughton@...> wrote:
>
> Hey Jack,
>
> I am definitely interested in such a product - feel free to put me on any mailing list to let me know when it becomes available.
>
> Cheers,
> Andrew
>
> --- In xl7@yahoogroups.com, Ian Lamb wrote:
>>
>> ➢ I don't know why many consider $50 to $150 as "heavily overpriced" for
>> ROMs.....
>>
>> Most likely, it is because they have a different hierarchy of values than
>> you.
>>
>> ➢ that is still less than the original price for those ROMs and certainly
>> worth it for about 500 new samples that are based in a hardware ROM, plus
>> some presets to boot.
>>
>> I paid less than that for a couple of ROMs from E-mu, but your point is
>> well-taken here.
>>
>> ➢ There are plenty of ROMs for less than $130 out there and I would not wait
>> on your music on the hope of something a few dollars cheaper, even if
>> reusable/reloadable. When the universal Flash SIMM is available, it will be
>> just one more tool, not the only tool. And there still needs to be beta
>> tested prototypes on the Universal Flash SIMMs and software to load and
>> translate common files and that seems still a while away....
>>
>> Fair call â€" if one has need now, then choose and work with what is available
>> now. That said, I can also understand and appreciate that many have an idea
>> of and a rough plan for what could be accomplished with the arrival of a
>> user-programmable Flash SIMM whose capabilities and function are a superset
>> of anything previously offered by E-mu.
>>
>> ➢ I paid about $50 for my last Xtreme Lead ROM and that has plenty of
>> material to work with....Emu has put much time and effort in squeezing so
>> many samples into the 32MB.
>>
>> That is one aspect of the E-mu ROMs that I hope to address with the
>> user-programmable Flash SIMM â€" to have a waveform set that focuses on
>> quality rather than quantity.
>>
>> I very much like the wavesets in the VintagePro and the ProteanDrums ROMs,
>> as well as the Audity2K portion of the XL-ROM, but the old Orbit and Phatt
>> wavesets have too many single-cycles without enough multisampling to my ear.
>>
>> ➢ I have Flash ROMs with my own sounds using the Emu Flash SIMM and an Ultra
>> sampler but have only been able to put a small fraction of the number of
>> samples into the 32MB space so I still predominately use the commercial
>> ROMs. There is so much processing available in the P2000/Command Station
>> series that 2 people can use the same sample and create an entirely
>> different sound and atmosphere....
>>
>> I agree, but in the end, user choice as to the quality, quantity, and nature
>> of samples brings the greatest potential power to the E-mu P2K systems.
>>
>>
>> cheers,
>> Ian
>>
>
>

Re: FLASH SIMM

2011-03-03 by electric-motion@hotmail.com

Hi there,

Hope everyone is doing good.

Was wondering if this project was still in progress ?

Soo hard to wait :)

Thanks

Geoffrey

--- In xl7@yahoogroups.com, Matt <somatt@...> wrote:
>
> Is there any update on this? I am very excited to use my own wave forms.
> Thanks again
> -matt
> On Jan 31, 2011 4:11 AM, "christen" <andrewmcnaughton@...> wrote:
> >
> > Hey Jack,
> >
> > I am definitely interested in such a product - feel free to put me on any
> mailing list to let me know when it becomes available.
> >
> > Cheers,
> > Andrew
> >
> > --- In xl7@yahoogroups.com, Ian Lamb <ianblamb@> wrote:
> >>
> >> ➢ I don't know why many consider $50 to $150 as "heavily overpriced"
> for
> >> ROMs.....
> >>
> >> Most likely, it is because they have a different hierarchy of values than
> >> you.
> >>
> >> ➢ that is still less than the original price for those ROMs and
> certainly
> >> worth it for about 500 new samples that are based in a hardware ROM, plus
> >> some presets to boot.
> >>
> >> I paid less than that for a couple of ROMs from E-mu, but your point is
> >> well-taken here.
> >>
> >> ➢ There are plenty of ROMs for less than $130 out there and I would not
> wait
> >> on your music on the hope of something a few dollars cheaper, even if
> >> reusable/reloadable. When the universal Flash SIMM is available, it will
> be
> >> just one more tool, not the only tool. And there still needs to be beta
> >> tested prototypes on the Universal Flash SIMMs and software to load and
> >> translate common files and that seems still a while away....
> >>
> >> Fair call â€" if one has need now, then choose and work with what is
> available
> >> now. That said, I can also understand and appreciate that many have an
> idea
> >> of and a rough plan for what could be accomplished with the arrival of a
> >> user-programmable Flash SIMM whose capabilities and function are a
> superset
> >> of anything previously offered by E-mu.
> >>
> >> ➢ I paid about $50 for my last Xtreme Lead ROM and that has plenty of
> >> material to work with....Emu has put much time and effort in squeezing so
> >> many samples into the 32MB.
> >>
> >> That is one aspect of the E-mu ROMs that I hope to address with the
> >> user-programmable Flash SIMM â€" to have a waveform set that focuses on
> >> quality rather than quantity.
> >>
> >> I very much like the wavesets in the VintagePro and the ProteanDrums
> ROMs,
> >> as well as the Audity2K portion of the XL-ROM, but the old Orbit and
> Phatt
> >> wavesets have too many single-cycles without enough multisampling to my
> ear.
> >>
> >> ➢ I have Flash ROMs with my own sounds using the Emu Flash SIMM and an
> Ultra
> >> sampler but have only been able to put a small fraction of the number of
> >> samples into the 32MB space so I still predominately use the commercial
> >> ROMs. There is so much processing available in the P2000/Command Station
> >> series that 2 people can use the same sample and create an entirely
> >> different sound and atmosphere....
> >>
> >> I agree, but in the end, user choice as to the quality, quantity, and
> nature
> >> of samples brings the greatest potential power to the E-mu P2K systems.
> >>
> >>
> >> cheers,
> >> Ian
> >>
> >
> >
>

Re: FLASH SIMM

2011-03-23 by christen

Is this still a possibility? please, please please...

--- In xl7@yahoogroups.com, "rweidne" <kazukoric@...> wrote:
>
> pardon my newbieishness, if this is a way of getting a hold of more rom sounds on my px-7 (currently with the single rom chip) i am interested.....
> 
> --- In xl7@yahoogroups.com, Jeremy Bolton <jboltnz@> wrote:
> >
> > Hi,
> > 
> > This sounds awesome. One please- maybe a couple of the Flash roms
> > 
> > Good Luck
> > 
> > Jeremy
> > 
> > On 19 December 2010 02:34, gary higgins <heyrag@> wrote:
> > 
> > >
> > >
> > > My response would be....Who would *not* be interested if this were
> > > truly available...
> > >
> > >
> > > ----- dans party <danielcomiskey@> wrote:
> > > >
> > >
> > > >
> > >
> > > >
> > >
> > > >
> > >
> > > >
> > >
> > > >
> > >
> > > >
> > >
> > > >
> > >
> > > >
> > >
> > > >
> > >
> > > >
> > >
> > > >
> > >
> > > >
> > >
> > > >
> > >
> > > >
> > >
> > > >
> > >
> > > >
> > >
> > > >
> > >
> > > >
> > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > > >
> > >
> > > >
> > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > --- On *Sat, 5/1/80, Ivan Chaparro <jibarosoul@>* wrote:
> > >
> > >
> > > From: Ivan Chaparro <jibarosoul@>
> > > Subject: Re: [xl7] Re: FLASH SIMM
> > > To: xl7@yahoogroups.com
> > > Received: Saturday, 5 January, 1980, 8:37 AM
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > >
> > >
> > > >
> > >
> > > >
> > >
> > > >
> > >
> > > >
> > >
> > > >
> > >
> > > >
> > >
> > > >
> > >
> > > >
> > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > > >
> > >
> > > >
> > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > >
> > >
> > > >
> > >
> > > >
> > > Im in, just wondering if you could clarify how this
> > >
> > > > would integrate into a maxed out command station. Eg: all four roms
> > > filled will
> > >
> > > > i have to sacrifice one? will it just pop into one of the existing
> > >
> > > > slots?
> > >
> > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > >
> > > ----- Original Message -----
> > >
> > >
> > > >
> > > *From:*
> > >
> > > >Geert <http://mc/compose?to=geert_depuydt@>
> > >
> > >
> > > >
> > > *To:*xl7@yahoogroups. com <http://mc/compose?to=xl7@yahoogroups.com>
> > >
> > >
> > > >
> > > *Sent:* Tuesday, February 16, 2010 9:47
> > >
> > > >   AM
> > >
> > >
> > > >
> > > *Subject:* [xl7] Re: FLASH SIMM
> > >
> > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > > >
> > >
> > > definately in.
> > >
> > > --- In xl7@yahoogroups. com <http://mc/compose?to=xl7@yahoogroups.com>,
> > > Jack Pratt
> > >
> > > >   <woodsworth1@ ...> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > Howdy.
> > > >
> > > > I
> > >
> > > >   have created a schematic for a FLASH SIMM. I can send a copy to anyone
> > >
> > > >   who is sufficiently interested (rather than posting it to everyone
> > > [which
> > >
> > > >   I thought would be bad etiquette]) - so pm me if you want to see it.
> > > >
> > >
> > > >
> > > > This FLASH SIMM is not the same as DRAM SIMM mentioned previously,
> > >
> > > >   but has some similar features. The intention is to have two 1Gb FLASH
> > > devices
> > >
> > > >   populated (total of 256MB FLASH) which would allow as many as seven
> > > 32+4MB
> > >
> > > >   images [32MB = wave memory, 4MB preset memory].
> > > >
> > > > What The SIMM
> > >
> > > >   is does mirrors up to four slots - it is actually in one slot but
> > >
> > > >   can respond to requests for any of the slots, but you can turn 'off'
> > > that
> > >
> > > >   response so you can put a physical ROM (or other FLASH) in that slot.
> > > Of cours
> > >
> > > >   that only accounts for 4 ROM images, the other may be accessed by
> > > either a
> > >
> > > >   switch or possibly in the future the OS could be modified so that there
> > > would
> > >
> > > >   be a menu item that allows the user to select which image appears in
> > > any
> > >
> > > >   given slot. The SIMM has 4 footprints for FLASH devices and if Numonyx
> > > every
> > >
> > > >   release a 2Gb part then the SIMM could support 1GB of FLASH or 28
> > > images.
> > >
> > > >   I'm not planning on altering the OS in the near future so don't hold
> > >
> > > >   your breath.
> > > >
> > > > Unfortunately this FLASH SIMM will probably not
> > >
> > > >   be programmable in the old way [Ultra for wave memory, Proteus for
> > > preset
> > >
> > > >   memory] so I need to also produce another board to read and write the
> > > board.
> > >
> > > >   This solution would be cheaper than buying an Ultra sampler but it
> > > wouldn't be
> > >
> > > >   a sampler!
> > > >
> > > > In order to proceed I need to know if anyone is
> > >
> > > >   interested in this SIMM. Cost would be about USD150 for the SIMM, and
> > > about
> > >
> > > >   USD125 for the programmer. Not sure on the exact prices because it will
> > > depend
> > >
> > > >   on the PCB manufacture cost, but I figure I need to sell about 20 of
> > > them to
> > >
> > > >   make it worth while. Not asking for money, but just a show of
> > >
> > > >   hands.
> > > >
> > > > Let me know what you think.
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > >
> > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > > >
> > >
> > > >
> > >
> > > >
> > >
> > > >
> > >
> > > >
> > >
> > > >
> > >
> > > >
> > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > >
> > >
> > > >
> > >
> > > >
> > >
> > > >
> > >
> > > >
> > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > > >
> > >
> > > >
> > >
> > > >
> > >
> > > >
> > >
> > > >
> > >
> > > >
> > >
> > > >
> > >
> > > >
> > >
> > > >
> > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >  
> > >
> >
>

Re: FLASH SIMM

2013-06-12 by slak909@ymail.com

Yes is this still active? If not can someone point me too a person who has the schematics and particulars?  I would like to resuscitate this project.
`Jeff


--- In xl7@yahoogroups.com, electric-motion@... wrote:
>
> Hi there,
> 
> Hope everyone is doing good.
> 
> Was wondering if this project was still in progress ?
> 
> Soo hard to wait :)
> 
> Thanks
> 
> Geoffrey
> 
> --- In xl7@yahoogroups.com, Matt <somatt@> wrote:
> >
> > Is there any update on this? I am very excited to use my own wave forms.
> > Thanks again
> > -matt
> > On Jan 31, 2011 4:11 AM, "christen" <andrewmcnaughton@> wrote:
> > >
> > > Hey Jack,
> > >
> > > I am definitely interested in such a product - feel free to put me on any
> > mailing list to let me know when it becomes available.
> > >
> > > Cheers,
> > > Andrew
> > >
> > > --- In xl7@yahoogroups.com, Ian Lamb <ianblamb@> wrote:
> > >>
> > >> ➢ I don't know why many consider $50 to $150 as "heavily overpriced"
> > for
> > >> ROMs.....
> > >>
> > >> Most likely, it is because they have a different hierarchy of values than
> > >> you.
> > >>
> > >> ➢ that is still less than the original price for those ROMs and
> > certainly
> > >> worth it for about 500 new samples that are based in a hardware ROM, plus
> > >> some presets to boot.
> > >>
> > >> I paid less than that for a couple of ROMs from E-mu, but your point is
> > >> well-taken here.
> > >>
> > >> ➢ There are plenty of ROMs for less than $130 out there and I would not
> > wait
> > >> on your music on the hope of something a few dollars cheaper, even if
> > >> reusable/reloadable. When the universal Flash SIMM is available, it will
> > be
> > >> just one more tool, not the only tool. And there still needs to be beta
> > >> tested prototypes on the Universal Flash SIMMs and software to load and
> > >> translate common files and that seems still a while away....
> > >>
> > >> Fair call â€" if one has need now, then choose and work with what is
> > available
> > >> now. That said, I can also understand and appreciate that many have an
> > idea
> > >> of and a rough plan for what could be accomplished with the arrival of a
> > >> user-programmable Flash SIMM whose capabilities and function are a
> > superset
> > >> of anything previously offered by E-mu.
> > >>
> > >> ➢ I paid about $50 for my last Xtreme Lead ROM and that has plenty of
> > >> material to work with....Emu has put much time and effort in squeezing so
> > >> many samples into the 32MB.
> > >>
> > >> That is one aspect of the E-mu ROMs that I hope to address with the
> > >> user-programmable Flash SIMM â€" to have a waveform set that focuses on
> > >> quality rather than quantity.
> > >>
> > >> I very much like the wavesets in the VintagePro and the ProteanDrums
> > ROMs,
> > >> as well as the Audity2K portion of the XL-ROM, but the old Orbit and
> > Phatt
> > >> wavesets have too many single-cycles without enough multisampling to my
> > ear.
> > >>
> > >> ➢ I have Flash ROMs with my own sounds using the Emu Flash SIMM and an
> > Ultra
> > >> sampler but have only been able to put a small fraction of the number of
> > >> samples into the 32MB space so I still predominately use the commercial
> > >> ROMs. There is so much processing available in the P2000/Command Station
> > >> series that 2 people can use the same sample and create an entirely
> > >> different sound and atmosphere....
> > >>
> > >> I agree, but in the end, user choice as to the quality, quantity, and
> > nature
> > >> of samples brings the greatest potential power to the E-mu P2K systems.
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> cheers,
> > >> Ian
> > >>
> > >
> > >
> >
>

Re: FLASH SIMM

2013-06-12 by electric-motion@...

I would love to see some progress in this project too.
This sounded so interesting.

Look like the guy just disappeared...

What a shame.
  

--- In xl7@yahoogroups.com, "slak909@..." <slak909@...> wrote:
>
> Yes is this still active? If not can someone point me too a person who has the schematics and particulars?  I would like to resuscitate this project.
> `Jeff
> 
> 
> --- In xl7@yahoogroups.com, electric-motion@ wrote:
> >
> > Hi there,
> > 
> > Hope everyone is doing good.
> > 
> > Was wondering if this project was still in progress ?
> > 
> > Soo hard to wait :)
> > 
> > Thanks
> > 
> > Geoffrey
> > 
> > --- In xl7@yahoogroups.com, Matt <somatt@> wrote:
> > >
> > > Is there any update on this? I am very excited to use my own wave forms.
> > > Thanks again
> > > -matt
> > > On Jan 31, 2011 4:11 AM, "christen" <andrewmcnaughton@> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > Hey Jack,
> > > >
> > > > I am definitely interested in such a product - feel free to put me on any
> > > mailing list to let me know when it becomes available.
> > > >
> > > > Cheers,
> > > > Andrew
> > > >
> > > > --- In xl7@yahoogroups.com, Ian Lamb <ianblamb@> wrote:
> > > >>
> > > >> ➢ I don't know why many consider $50 to $150 as "heavily overpriced"
> > > for
> > > >> ROMs.....
> > > >>
> > > >> Most likely, it is because they have a different hierarchy of values than
> > > >> you.
> > > >>
> > > >> ➢ that is still less than the original price for those ROMs and
> > > certainly
> > > >> worth it for about 500 new samples that are based in a hardware ROM, plus
> > > >> some presets to boot.
> > > >>
> > > >> I paid less than that for a couple of ROMs from E-mu, but your point is
> > > >> well-taken here.
> > > >>
> > > >> ➢ There are plenty of ROMs for less than $130 out there and I would not
> > > wait
> > > >> on your music on the hope of something a few dollars cheaper, even if
> > > >> reusable/reloadable. When the universal Flash SIMM is available, it will
> > > be
> > > >> just one more tool, not the only tool. And there still needs to be beta
> > > >> tested prototypes on the Universal Flash SIMMs and software to load and
> > > >> translate common files and that seems still a while away....
> > > >>
> > > >> Fair call â€" if one has need now, then choose and work with what is
> > > available
> > > >> now. That said, I can also understand and appreciate that many have an
> > > idea
> > > >> of and a rough plan for what could be accomplished with the arrival of a
> > > >> user-programmable Flash SIMM whose capabilities and function are a
> > > superset
> > > >> of anything previously offered by E-mu.
> > > >>
> > > >> ➢ I paid about $50 for my last Xtreme Lead ROM and that has plenty of
> > > >> material to work with....Emu has put much time and effort in squeezing so
> > > >> many samples into the 32MB.
> > > >>
> > > >> That is one aspect of the E-mu ROMs that I hope to address with the
> > > >> user-programmable Flash SIMM â€" to have a waveform set that focuses on
> > > >> quality rather than quantity.
> > > >>
> > > >> I very much like the wavesets in the VintagePro and the ProteanDrums
> > > ROMs,
> > > >> as well as the Audity2K portion of the XL-ROM, but the old Orbit and
> > > Phatt
> > > >> wavesets have too many single-cycles without enough multisampling to my
> > > ear.
> > > >>
> > > >> ➢ I have Flash ROMs with my own sounds using the Emu Flash SIMM and an
> > > Ultra
> > > >> sampler but have only been able to put a small fraction of the number of
> > > >> samples into the 32MB space so I still predominately use the commercial
> > > >> ROMs. There is so much processing available in the P2000/Command Station
> > > >> series that 2 people can use the same sample and create an entirely
> > > >> different sound and atmosphere....
> > > >>
> > > >> I agree, but in the end, user choice as to the quality, quantity, and
> > > nature
> > > >> of samples brings the greatest potential power to the E-mu P2K systems.
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > > >> cheers,
> > > >> Ian
> > > >>
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> >
>