Emu XL-7 & MP-7 User's Group

Another one for the group...

I would like to give some of my drum parts a slightly more "human" 
feel by adding a little bit of random variation to the velocity.  I 
swear that the XL7 has a function for this, but I can't seem to find 
it right now... I don't know if I'm tired or just confused :)

I can do this with patch cords somehow, I'm sure... but will a 
patchcord setup actually vary velocity on pre-recorded notes being 
sent to external gear? Or notes recorded in grid mode?

Also, just for verification, there's no way to have the LFOs/envelopes 
on the XL sent to external gear via MIDI - they are just internal, 
correct?  There definitely doesn't seem to be any direct way...

Thanks

D

As far as I know, the patch-cords, LFOs and envelopes are strictly
internal, and won't send any data over MIDI.  There's no way to route
any of them to the MIDI outs at all.

(although it would be a damn useful feature to have, especially if it
could be added to the patch-cord modulation destinations as the MIDI
A-P controllers)

AL
(PX-7 owner)

--- In xl7@yahoogroups.com, "soundcrafter" <aurastar@...> wrote:

>
> Another one for the group...
> 
> I would like to give some of my drum parts a slightly more "human" 
> feel by adding a little bit of random variation to the velocity.  I 
> swear that the XL7 has a function for this, but I can't seem to find 
> it right now... I don't know if I'm tired or just confused :)
> 
> I can do this with patch cords somehow, I'm sure... but will a 
> patchcord setup actually vary velocity on pre-recorded notes being 
> sent to external gear? Or notes recorded in grid mode?
> 
> Also, just for verification, there's no way to have the LFOs/envelopes 
> on the XL sent to external gear via MIDI - they are just internal, 
> correct?  There definitely doesn't seem to be any direct way...
> 
> Thanks
> 
> D
>

See page 172 of the manual (I am using the PX7 manual) for random sources for patch cords....there is key random 1 & 2 (static while key is depressed), filtered white & pink noise sources (dynamic) & crossfade random that will generate the same random value for all 4 layers.....

Bob
El Segundo, CA

  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: vermis_rex 
  To: xl7@yahoogroups.com 
  Sent: Saturday, January 06, 2007 8:34 AM
  Subject: [xl7] Re: Randomize/Humanize velocity, LFOs -> External gear?


  As far as I know, the patch-cords, LFOs and envelopes are strictly
  internal, and won't send any data over MIDI. There's no way to route
  any of them to the MIDI outs at all.

  (although it would be a damn useful feature to have, especially if it
  could be added to the patch-cord modulation destinations as the MIDI
  A-P controllers)

  AL
  (PX-7 owner)

  --- In xl7@yahoogroups.com, "soundcrafter" <aurastar@...> wrote:
  >
  > Another one for the group...
  > 
  > I would like to give some of my drum parts a slightly more "human" 
  > feel by adding a little bit of random variation to the velocity. I 
  > swear that the XL7 has a function for this, but I can't seem to find 
  > it right now... I don't know if I'm tired or just confused :)
  > 
  > I can do this with patch cords somehow, I'm sure... but will a 
  > patchcord setup actually vary velocity on pre-recorded notes being 
  > sent to external gear? Or notes recorded in grid mode?
  > 
  > Also, just for verification, there's no way to have the LFOs/envelopes 
  > on the XL sent to external gear via MIDI - they are just internal, 
  > correct? There definitely doesn't seem to be any direct way...
  > 
  > Thanks
  > 
  > D
  >



   

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Yep, that's what I thought... thanks Al!

--- In xl7@yahoogroups.com, "vermis_rex" <vermis_rex@...> wrote:

>
> As far as I know, the patch-cords, LFOs and envelopes are strictly
> internal, and won't send any data over MIDI.  There's no way to route
> any of them to the MIDI outs at all.
> 
> (although it would be a damn useful feature to have, especially if it
> could be added to the patch-cord modulation destinations as the MIDI
> A-P controllers)
> 
> AL
> (PX-7 owner)
> 
>

Yes, I found that this morning after getting a bit of sleep :)  I was 
just thinking that there was a "humanize" function on the XL, and 
there isn't - I was just too tired to still be in the studio.

Another point I should mention is that I'm trying to accomplish this 
on a external piece of equipment.  I have a Blank Preset that I assign 
to tracks that will be controlling external gear - Instrument is set 
to "none" on all layers.  So, if I assign, for example, Xfade Random -
> Key Vel on this blank preset, and then re-record that track, the 
changes in velocity should be recorded as part of the track, and 
therefore passed on to my drum machine?  What about if I am entering 
the notes in Grid mode?

Thanks

D

--- In xl7@yahoogroups.com, "Bob S." <tttsystems@...> wrote:
>
> See page 172 of the manual (I am using the PX7 manual) for random 
sources for patch cords....there is key random 1 & 2 (static while key 
is depressed), filtered white & pink noise sources (dynamic) & 
crossfade random that will generate the same random value for all 4 
layers.....

> 
> Bob
> El Segundo, CA
>

It's not really practical to send LFO or envelope information over
MIDI, since the update rate would have to be pretty high, which would
clog the MIDI bandwidth (similar to sending lots of aftertouch).

What WOULD be cool is the ability to route LFOs, envelopes, tracking
generators, etc, to internal sequencer tracks, so you could modulate
velocity, pitch, duration, and timing. Self-modulation is one of the
cooler things that analog sequencers can do that I'd like to see
incorporated into digital pattern-based MIDI sequencers.


--- In xl7@yahoogroups.com, "vermis_rex" <vermis_rex@...> wrote:
>
> As far as I know, the patch-cords, LFOs and envelopes are strictly
> internal, and won't send any data over MIDI.  There's no way to route
> any of them to the MIDI outs at all.
> 
> (although it would be a damn useful feature to have, especially if it
> could be added to the patch-cord modulation destinations as the MIDI
> A-P controllers)
> 
> AL
> (PX-7 owner)
> 
> --- In xl7@yahoogroups.com, "soundcrafter" <aurastar@> wrote:
> >
> > Another one for the group...
> > 
> > I would like to give some of my drum parts a slightly more "human" 
> > feel by adding a little bit of random variation to the velocity.  I 
> > swear that the XL7 has a function for this, but I can't seem to find 
> > it right now... I don't know if I'm tired or just confused :)
> > 
> > I can do this with patch cords somehow, I'm sure... but will a 
> > patchcord setup actually vary velocity on pre-recorded notes being 
> > sent to external gear? Or notes recorded in grid mode?
> > 
> > Also, just for verification, there's no way to have the
LFOs/envelopes 

> > on the XL sent to external gear via MIDI - they are just internal, 
> > correct?  There definitely doesn't seem to be any direct way...
> > 
> > Thanks
> > 
> > D
> >
>

Key Vel is a Source but not a Destination, so there's no way to do
this mod routing. Also, while the XL7 sequencer and synth engine share 
the same box and interface, they're essentially separate (I found this
out playing with arps on tracks set to "ext" - the arps are part of
the synth, not the sequencer, so they only work when the sequencer or
other note source is routed through the synth). MIDI data goes from
sequencer to synth, but not the other way around.

The solution is to build the randomization into the synth or sampler
or whatever is the target of your sequencer track (unfortunately, this
probably means you can't randomly vary the timing). While the XL7
doesn't have a "humanize" function, being able to create your own
"humanization" using the sources Bob mentions is more powerful and
flexible. If your other synth doesn't have these capabilities, you may
be able to use a random LFO or something.


--- In xl7@yahoogroups.com, "soundcrafter" <aurastar@...> wrote:

>
> Yes, I found that this morning after getting a bit of sleep :)  I was 
> just thinking that there was a "humanize" function on the XL, and 
> there isn't - I was just too tired to still be in the studio.
> 
> Another point I should mention is that I'm trying to accomplish this 
> on a external piece of equipment.  I have a Blank Preset that I assign 
> to tracks that will be controlling external gear - Instrument is set 
> to "none" on all layers.  So, if I assign, for example, Xfade Random -
> > Key Vel on this blank preset, and then re-record that track, the 
> changes in velocity should be recorded as part of the track, and 
> therefore passed on to my drum machine?  What about if I am entering 
> the notes in Grid mode?
> 
> Thanks
> 
> D
> 
> --- In xl7@yahoogroups.com, "Bob S." <tttsystems@> wrote:
> >
> > See page 172 of the manual (I am using the PX7 manual) for random 
> sources for patch cords....there is key random 1 & 2 (static while key 
> is depressed), filtered white & pink noise sources (dynamic) & 
> crossfade random that will generate the same random value for all 4 
> layers.....
> > 
> > Bob
> > El Segundo, CA
> >
>

--- In xl7@yahoogroups.com, "robotchas" <robotchas@...> wrote:

> the arps are part of the synth, not the sequencer, 
> so they only work when the sequencer or
> other note source is routed through the synth). 

In the ARP menu system, ARP/RIFF MIDI OUT needs to be set to 
either "transmit arps" or "transmit both" [arps and riffs]. This 
routes the arps to external gear.

I just tested it in live mode: it works on my keyboard--->XL-2500--->M-
GS64--with delay echo set up. 

I also tested it in realtime sequencer mode with the sequncer only 
recording the notes played (not the arpeggiated notes). Again ARP/RIFF 
MIDI OUT is set to transmit arps.

Here are the results based on the CHANNEL ASSIGN Dest[ination]
int --- arps go to external gear (as well as to internal synth)
ext --- only notes played go only to external gear (not to internal 
synth)
both -- arps go to external gear (as well as to internal synth)

If you want arps to go only to external gear, set ROM Instrument on 
all relevant layers to 000 :None. Personal preference: I renamed the 
preset with the prefix Xrp for eXternal arp [Xrp:JUNOsis]. (The 
capital letter makes the preset show up early in the navigator.)

Hope this helps.

--Steve

 
--- In xl7@yahoogroups.com, "robotchas" <robotchas@...> wrote:
>
> Key Vel is a Source but not a Destination, so there's no way to do
> this mod routing. Also, while the XL7 sequencer and synth engine 
share 
> the same box and interface, they're essentially separate (I found 
this

> out playing with arps on tracks set to "ext" - the arps are part of
> the synth, not the sequencer, so they only work when the sequencer or
> other note source is routed through the synth). MIDI data goes from
> sequencer to synth, but not the other way around.

No,no, I understand all that (but thanks for the explanation). I was
just pointing out that the synth and sequencer are separate entities:
 if you set a track to EXT the arpeggiator stops working, which
doesn't make any sense until you realize that the arps are in the
synth, not the sequencer, so an EXT part doesn't go through the
arpeggiator. The solution is as you describe.


--- In xl7@yahoogroups.com, "steve_the_composer" <smw-mail@...> wrote:

>
> --- In xl7@yahoogroups.com, "robotchas" <robotchas@> wrote:
> 
> > the arps are part of the synth, not the sequencer, 
> > so they only work when the sequencer or
> > other note source is routed through the synth). 
> 
> In the ARP menu system, ARP/RIFF MIDI OUT needs to be set to 
> either "transmit arps" or "transmit both" [arps and riffs]. This 
> routes the arps to external gear.
> 
> I just tested it in live mode: it works on my keyboard--->XL-2500--->M-
> GS64--with delay echo set up. 
> 
> I also tested it in realtime sequencer mode with the sequncer only 
> recording the notes played (not the arpeggiated notes). Again ARP/RIFF 
> MIDI OUT is set to transmit arps.
> 
> Here are the results based on the CHANNEL ASSIGN Dest[ination]
> int --- arps go to external gear (as well as to internal synth)
> ext --- only notes played go only to external gear (not to internal 
> synth)
> both -- arps go to external gear (as well as to internal synth)
> 
> If you want arps to go only to external gear, set ROM Instrument on 
> all relevant layers to 000 :None. Personal preference: I renamed the 
> preset with the prefix Xrp for eXternal arp [Xrp:JUNOsis]. (The 
> capital letter makes the preset show up early in the navigator.)
> 
> Hope this helps.
> 
> --Steve
> 
>  
> --- In xl7@yahoogroups.com, "robotchas" <robotchas@> wrote:
> >
> > Key Vel is a Source but not a Destination, so there's no way to do
> > this mod routing. Also, while the XL7 sequencer and synth engine 
> share 
> > the same box and interface, they're essentially separate (I found 
> this
> > out playing with arps on tracks set to "ext" - the arps are part of
> > the synth, not the sequencer, so they only work when the sequencer or
> > other note source is routed through the synth). MIDI data goes from
> > sequencer to synth, but not the other way around.
>

Ooops. Sorry for implying the explantion was for you. I knew you know 
how to do it. I hadn't sent arps external in years and forgot how to do 
it myself. Prompted by your post, I reconstructed the steps and wrote 
them down--just so they would be available here. (That's why I renamed 
the topic; so that it would be found in a search using the words arp 
and external.)

--Steve 

--- In xl7@yahoogroups.com, "robotchas" <robotchas@...> wrote:

>
> No,no, I understand all that (but thanks for the explanation). I was
> just pointing out that the synth and sequencer are separate entities:
>  if you set a track to EXT the arpeggiator stops working, which
> doesn't make any sense until you realize that the arps are in the
> synth, not the sequencer, so an EXT part doesn't go through the
> arpeggiator. The solution is as you describe.

These intarnets are confusing. 

It's a good explanation to have. You're a very helpful guy, Steve.


--- In xl7@yahoogroups.com, "steve_the_composer" <smw-mail@...> wrote:

>
> Ooops. Sorry for implying the explantion was for you. I knew you know 
> how to do it. I hadn't sent arps external in years and forgot how to do 
> it myself. Prompted by your post, I reconstructed the steps and wrote 
> them down--just so they would be available here. (That's why I renamed 
> the topic; so that it would be found in a search using the words arp 
> and external.)
> 
> --Steve 
> 
> --- In xl7@yahoogroups.com, "robotchas" <robotchas@> wrote:
> >
> > No,no, I understand all that (but thanks for the explanation). I was
> > just pointing out that the synth and sequencer are separate entities:
> >  if you set a track to EXT the arpeggiator stops working, which
> > doesn't make any sense until you realize that the arps are in the
> > synth, not the sequencer, so an EXT part doesn't go through the
> > arpeggiator. The solution is as you describe.
>