Emu XL-7 & MP-7 User's Group

I'm having problems getting the arps to sync in Sonar. I have the XL-7 
set to ext. midi clock with Sonar transmitting. The patterns sync up 
and everything else seems to be working fine. It's just when I use an 
arp and sequence from Sonar, they just never match up. Is there 
something my missing in the arp section of the XL-7? Thanks for the 
help! Brandon

If you want the xl7 receive arp from an external module like a pc or another midi device you have to go in the arp edit section and select the xl7 to receive arp from the external device ( it is the same for the riffs ) . Hope that help.

		
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--- In xl7@yahoogroups.com, BEAUFILS Adrien <fatalojyxvsfacial@y...> 
wrote:
> 
> 
> If you want the xl7 receive arp from an external module like a pc 
or another midi device you have to go in the arp edit section and 
select the xl7 to receive arp from the external device ( it is the 
same for the riffs ) . Hope that help.
> 
> 		
> ---------------------------------
>  Appel audio GRATUIT partout dans le monde avec le nouveau Yahoo! 
Messenger
>  Téléchargez le ici !  
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Thanks, but that's not what I'm having a problem with. I have Sonar 
set up as my sequencer. When I select an arp patch from the XL-7 to 
midi record with, the tempo in Sonar and the tempo of the arp seem 
to drift apart. The XL-7 is set to ext. clock and it's receiving 
midi clock from Sonar. The patterns from the XL-7 sync up fine. Just 
the arp tempo won't sync with Sonar. Hope I explained this better. 
Thanks for the help!

(1) What OS are you running in the E-Mu? If it is not OS2.0 I would 
say that might be your problem. I had trouble syncing pre-Sonar 
software to my P2500 before OS 2.0. (I did not have the sync problem 
with other gear slaved to the pre-Sonar Cakewalk clock.) OS2.0 
cleared up major problems I had syncing to Cakewalk.

If you have OS2.0:

(2a) What version of Sonar do you have?
(2b) Did you check to see if there were any Sonar Updates 
[patches/fixes] for that version of Sonar?
(2c) If so did you install them?

If your Sonar has all available update/patches/fixes:

(3a) What type of drivers are you using ASIO or WDM?
(3b) If ASIO, consider switching to WDM. (The Sonar manual should
tell you how to select the drivers and force a new profile.)

I am assuming you have the >>recommended<< [not minimum] computer 
configuration for Sonar. I have found that the more design features 
twelve tone systems/cakewalk added, the computing power/resources 
you needed.

If your computer system is between the minimum configuration and the 
recommended configuration and you are only using midi [no digital 
audio], (a) consider using pre-digital audio software or pre-Sonar 
software--if it will run on your system, or (b)if you are committed
to using Sonar make sure you are using as few digital audio 
resources as possible.

Hope this helps.

--Steve

PS: If all else fails check the discussion boards at the 
Cakewalk/Sonar site?

If I recall correctly, arps are locked to tempo, not position.  This
means that they'll drift.  Two solutions:

1 - Retrigger the arp via sonar every arp loop
2 - Slave sonar to the XL-7 and record the arp using "Arps Transmit
MIDI", then switch the sync back, turn off the arpeggiator and just
play the notes from sonar.

-Aaron

--- steve_the_composer <smw-mail@...> wrote:

> (1) What OS are you running in the E-Mu? If it is not OS2.0 I would 
> say that might be your problem. I had trouble syncing pre-Sonar 
> software to my P2500 before OS 2.0. (I did not have the sync problem 
> with other gear slaved to the pre-Sonar Cakewalk clock.) OS2.0 
> cleared up major problems I had syncing to Cakewalk.
> 
> If you have OS2.0:
> 
> (2a) What version of Sonar do you have?
> (2b) Did you check to see if there were any Sonar Updates 
> [patches/fixes] for that version of Sonar?
> (2c) If so did you install them?
> 
> If your Sonar has all available update/patches/fixes:
> 
> (3a) What type of drivers are you using ASIO or WDM?
> (3b) If ASIO, consider switching to WDM. (The Sonar manual should
> tell you how to select the drivers and force a new profile.)
> 
> I am assuming you have the >>recommended<< [not minimum] computer 
> configuration for Sonar. I have found that the more design features 
> twelve tone systems/cakewalk added, the computing power/resources 
> you needed.
> 
> If your computer system is between the minimum configuration and the 
> recommended configuration and you are only using midi [no digital 
> audio], (a) consider using pre-digital audio software or pre-Sonar 
> software--if it will run on your system, or (b)if you are committed
> to using Sonar make sure you are using as few digital audio 
> resources as possible.
> 
> Hope this helps.
> 
> --Steve
> 
> PS: If all else fails check the discussion boards at the 
> Cakewalk/Sonar site?
>  
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
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I have used arps almost exclusively with Sync = key sync [as opposed 
to Sync = quantized]. Using Sonar 3 as clock master to the P2500 in 
ext clock mode, I triggered a note on using an extended arp at the 
beginning of each measure. The sequenced keypress kept the arp in 
sync, and since I retriggered it, the extensions never executed.  I 
will test it with a note on in measure one for as long as I can to 
see if I get the drift.

--Steve

--- In xl7@yahoogroups.com, Aaron Eppolito <synthesis77@y...> wrote:
> If I recall correctly, arps are locked to tempo, not position. 
> This means that they'll drift.  Two solutions:
> 
> 1 - Retrigger the arp via sonar every arp loop
> 2 - Slave sonar to the XL-7 and record the arp using "Arps Transmit
> MIDI", then switch the sync back, turn off the arpeggiator and just
> play the notes from sonar.
> 
> -Aaron

I gave up after 175 measures. I triggered a 4/4 arp via note on at 
measure 1 for 999 beats. It stayed in sync. 

I started with an empty 1 measure 4/4 pattern.  The measure clock 
synced to Sonar.

I then switched to other 4/4 patterns on the fly. The P2500 stayed in 
sync with Sonar.

BTW, what's the time signature of the arp and the time signature of 
the piece in cakewalk?

Hope this helps.
-Steve

Thanks so much for all the input. This is a great group!

XL-7: version 2.0
Sonar: 3.0 with all current updates
Computer: P3 900 mhz 512 ram
4/4 96 bmp project, arp is 4/4
I am using about 11 stereo tracks of digital audio in this project.

What I've noticed over the past couple weeks, is that it takes the XL-
7 a measure or two to achieve sync with Sonar. After this the arps 
pretty much stay in sync, although, I have noticed the tempo on the XL-
7 vary up to 2 bpm faster than the tempo in Sonar while the song is 
playing. I haven't noticed the arps out of sync but, I don't think 
they were playing at the time. What I was doing when the arps weren't 
syncing up was starting Sonar on 1 of the measure where the arp 
started. Since the arp started at the wrong tempo to begin with, it 
never would sync. Going back a couple bars before the arp starts has 
helped. I'm still wondering why I have tempo fluctuations with the XL-
7. This is my first experience with is type of setup! Anymore 
thoughts? Thanks again, Brandon

--- In xl7@yahoogroups.com, "steve_the_composer" <smw-mail@p...> wrote:
> I gave up after 175 measures. I triggered a 4/4 arp via note on at 
> measure 1 for 999 beats. It stayed in sync. 
> 
> I started with an empty 1 measure 4/4 pattern.  The measure clock 
> synced to Sonar.
> 
> I then switched to other 4/4 patterns on the fly. The P2500 stayed 
in 
> sync with Sonar.
> 
> BTW, what's the time signature of the arp and the time signature of 
> the piece in cakewalk?
> 
> Hope this helps.
> -Steve

Is it possible there is a bottlenecking effect on the Sonar side at 
start-up?

What happens if you insert a two measure count-in? Do you still get 
the same problem?

--Steve


--- In xl7@yahoogroups.com, "freakyfreq" <freakyfreq@y...> wrote:

[snip]

> I am using about 11 stereo tracks of digital audio in this project.
> 
> What I've noticed over the past couple weeks, is that it takes the
> XL-7 a measure or two to achieve sync with Sonar.

[snip]

i had this problem before a shame i cant remember hat i did to fix 
it. if i get time tonight i will try it whilist making a live set:)

--- In xl7@yahoogroups.com, "steve_the_composer" <smw-mail@p...> 
wrote:
> Is it possible there is a bottlenecking effect on the Sonar side 
at 
> start-up?
> 
> What happens if you insert a two measure count-in? Do you still 
get 
> the same problem?
> 
> --Steve
> 
> 
> --- In xl7@yahoogroups.com, "freakyfreq" <freakyfreq@y...> wrote:
> 
> [snip]
> 
> > I am using about 11 stereo tracks of digital audio in this 
project.
> > 
> > What I've noticed over the past couple weeks, is that it takes 
the
> > XL-7 a measure or two to achieve sync with Sonar.
> 
> [snip]

If there's a way to have Sonar send clock even when it's stopped, that
will make a world of difference.  What happens is when Sonar starts, if
it hasn't been sending clock, the XL-7 has no chance to figure out what
tempo it is before it needs it.

-Aaron

--- steve_the_composer <smw-mail@...> wrote:

> Is it possible there is a bottlenecking effect on the Sonar side at 
> start-up?
> 
> What happens if you insert a two measure count-in? Do you still get 
> the same problem?
> 
> --Steve
> 
> 
> --- In xl7@yahoogroups.com, "freakyfreq" <freakyfreq@y...> wrote:
> 
> [snip]
> 
> > I am using about 11 stereo tracks of digital audio in this project.
> > 
> > What I've noticed over the past couple weeks, is that it takes the
> > XL-7 a measure or two to achieve sync with Sonar.
> 
> [snip]
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
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I know this thread has been going on for awhile; so, please forgive 
me if someone has already suggested this. 

I have Cakewalk HomeStudio O4.  I think some of the stuff in 
HomeStudio would be similar to Sonar.  This is what I would look for.

(In Options-Project Options-Midi Out tab)

Send MIDI Sync 
When Home Studio is the timing master in a master/slave synchronized 
setup, use this section to set sync options: 

Transmit MIDI Start/Continue/Stop/Clock--(Which you probably know)
Choosing this option causes Home Studio to tell the slave when to 
start, when to continue, when to stop, and what timing data to go 
by. (Eventhough you have this selected you still have to set the 
tempo in Cakewalk to the tempo of the XL-7, or vice-versa; unless, 
you setup a sysex messege to send from Cakewalk to the XL-7, telling 
the XL-7 and other equipment what tempo to change to.)

Use Start, Never Continue--(You may or may not want this on.)
Choosing this option causes Home Studio to only transmit MIDI Start 
messages every time it restarts, even in the middile of a song. If 
you have a drum machine slaved to Home Studio, and the drum machine 
is playing looped patterns, you probably want it to start at the 
beginning of its loop whenever Home Studio restarts, even if Home 
Studio restarts from the middle of a song. 

Transmit MIDI Song Position Pointer (SPP)--(This might help)
Choosing this option causes Home Studio to send an SPP message 
before starting or continuing playback. 

Locate Delay for SPP Recipient--(This might help)
Some older MIDI devices take a small amount of time to respond to 
SPP messages. This option causes Home Studio to delay briefly after 
sending an SPP message, in order to give the slave device time to 
respond. The delay is in 1/18ths of a second. Enter 1 for a 1/18th 
second delay, 2 for 2/18ths of a second, or 18 for a full second 
delay. 

Other things that might help are project specific sysex banks or 
sysex data that you can send automaticaly, or whenever you want.  
That way when you open a song or project it will tell the XL-7 what 
tempo it should change to and other settings.  If you're having 
sysex messeges sent, you can adjust the timming (in milliseconds) 
you're XL-7 recieves the packet.

Another thing I thought might help, which you may have already done, 
Is making sure Sonar is set to 384 Ticks per quarter-note, in 
Options-Project Options-Clock.


GoodLuck,
Brandon
  


--- In xl7@yahoogroups.com, Aaron Eppolito <synthesis77@y...> wrote:
> If there's a way to have Sonar send clock even when it's stopped, 
that
> will make a world of difference.  What happens is when Sonar 
starts, if
> it hasn't been sending clock, the XL-7 has no chance to figure out 
what
> tempo it is before it needs it.
> 
> -Aaron
> 
> --- steve_the_composer <smw-mail@p...> wrote:
> 
> > Is it possible there is a bottlenecking effect on the Sonar side 
at 
> > start-up?
> > 
> > What happens if you insert a two measure count-in? Do you still 
get 
> > the same problem?
> > 
> > --Steve
> > 
> > 
> > --- In xl7@yahoogroups.com, "freakyfreq" <freakyfreq@y...> wrote:
> > 
> > [snip]
> > 
> > > I am using about 11 stereo tracks of digital audio in this 
project.
> > > 
> > > What I've noticed over the past couple weeks, is that it takes 
the
> > > XL-7 a measure or two to achieve sync with Sonar.
> > 
> > [snip]
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
> > --------------------~--> 
> > Life without art & music? Keep the arts alive today at Network 
for
> > Good!
> > http://us.click.yahoo.com/iuUuID/dnQLAA/n1hLAA/pWZylB/TM
> >
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