Emu XL-7 & MP-7 User's Group

Warning!  Loooong post to follow.  I hope I've addressed most of your issues.

argomax2002 wrote:

> Hi.
> I'm a dealer in Italy, and I specialize in music electronics for
> remix and dance productions. I am the premier dealer for this
> kind of gear in my country.
> I've been in this business for a long time and I've owned, used
> and sold ALL products ever produced  in the last 15 years that
> had keys, knobs or a PLAY button on them.
> Since I also indulge myself in having a small and effective studio
> setup, I grabbed an MP7 for my own use.
> It's an enjoyable machine and I like to play with it. I won't use it
> professionally yet until I really get it to do what I like.
>
> However, after a few days of exploring, I will tell you the following
> comments, but don't take them too bad:
>
> * The interface layout is not bad but not excellent either. Too
> much space is given to functions that could be within menus,
> and too little to those that should be upfront, like sequencer edit
> functions, extended transport buttons, and so.

What less important functions would you like to see deferred to menus?  What
more would you like from the transport that can't be accomplished with the
three buttons and the editable Bar.Beat display directly above it?


> *Where's my UNDO button? The COMPARE button, which is
> there instead, is only one-tenth as useful as the UNDO button. If
> there is an Undo function anywhere, I couldn't find it. Not even in
> the index.

Revert to saved song/pattern.  It's at the end of the song/pattern edit
menus.  A real "undo" feature, i.e. one that undoes your last operation,
isn't terribly feasible on a box like the XL-7 where the method of use is
intended to feel like all one action.  You can record all 16 tracks, save,
copy, etc. all without coming out of record mode.  Revert to saved is a quick
way to allow you to choose to when you want to undo.  Simply pressing the
save/copy button and then enter allows you to save your pattern quickly
without stopping what you're doing.  Once you've gotten in the habit of
saving (which is a good thing), revert acts just like undo.


> *The sequencer is steady but barely there in terms of features.
> For example, I can't copy just some bars that I recorded well over
> some other bard I recorded badly within the same track: I have to
> copy the whole track somewhere else or nothing.

Get 1.18 software, released a few months ago.  It has this exact feature.


> And you should be able to sequence a
> song WITHOUT just chaining patterns.

You can.  You have 999 bars worth of 16 channels of linear sequencer to work
with in song mode.  Not only that, but you can use those linear tracks along
with chained patterns if you like.  Other current sequencers allow you only
one or the other (chained pattern only, or, flat song only).


> * The soundset is quite uneven in terms of dynamics, overall
> levels and sound quality. Enough said. And the reverbs fizzle.
> UUGGGHHH!!! THAT'S CHEAP!!!
>
> *To say that the effect bussing section is confusing is putting it
> mildly. Also, the effects could include a few more variety, what do
> you think?

Effects routing is a hardware limitation that we're not terribly happy with
either.  For cost reasons, this is the route we've taken.


> *The hip-hop soundset is good only in the Bass and Drums/Perc
> categories. Everything else is useless in my opinion.

I'm sure other people's opinions would differ.


> *A TWO-LINE DISPLAY? IN 2002? IN THIS PRICE RANGE?

128 voices, 32 midi channels, 16 knobs, 13 velocity & poly aftertouch
sensitive pads, 6 analog outs, S/PDIF out, rugged quality, in this price
range?


> *The E-Loader won't load a damn thing from a Mac using USB. I
> don't even want to make any effort to find out why, nor I want to
> switch platform. It should work immediately. Period.

USB drivers haven't been released yet.  They'll be out very soon now.  In the
meantime, everything in E-Loader works on a Mac as well as a PC using midi.
(even with a USB midi port...)


> * The synth programming functions are certainly very deep,
> powerful and extensive.
> But guys, I don't feel like scrolling with a dial and tapping
> endlessly with a cursor switch anymore, sorry. I'm 36 y.o., and I
> want better for my money.

That's why the 16 part mute buttons act like direct editing functions in
preset edit.  I don't think that there are any parameters in preset edit that
are more than a couple button pushes away.  There's direct layer
increment/decrement buttons to switch layers without cursoring.  All in all,
I don't think that there's a better feature/ease of use ratio on a standalone
unit.


> *The pads are very well built and respond well. You obviously
> have used a lot of the ideas from the Ensoniq ASR-X series,
> from the sequencing structure to the pads themselves. But I'd
> have gone further. I'd have implemented sampling as well
> (Yamaha RS-7000 beat Emu to that) and a fixed Ram storage
> like that featured on Roland SP-808, which, you'll agree, is THE
> BEST and MOST PRACTICAL type of memory storage ever
> developed in music application, period.

The XL-7 was not designed as a sampler.  However, you can buy flash ROMs that
you can burn your own samples on to, and never have to load them from disk.
They're always there without having to lug a SCSI disk around to a gig...


> Thanks for your time and I hope I didn't offend anyone.

Only a little bit...  =)

> Max Ventura,
> Italy.

> Hello again.
> Having dug  into the machine extensively during this weekend,
> I'm afraid I have a few more complaints to report, adding to my
> previous post.
> In fact, at this point I must admit I am pretty disappointed with
> this machine and I think I will put it back on sale, and start
> looking for something else instead.
>
> The patterns are good but I don't care about those, we all make
> our own after all. So that doesn't count.
> The sounds in the MP7 native Rom are unusable. Have I found a
> single, usable piano, strings or organ sound that behaves
> normally? No. Only detuned, crappy distorted presets.
> The drumkits and basses are okay, though.

The soundset (as I think someone already pointed out) is supposed to be
different.  If you want pianos, strings, etc, there're plenty of expansion
ROMs for that.  Think of this from the other point of view.  Everybody has
strings, pianos and other bread and butter sounds.  We even offer those if
you want them.  For an MP-7 buyer, why burden their 32MB sound ROM with bread
and butter sounds, when that precious space could be better spent providing
sounds they didn't have already?  For someone who *does* want those sounds
and doesn't have them already, we offer many other options, ranging from the
Proteus2500 to additional sound ROMs for your command station.


> The interface and OS are good and responsive. The buttons are
> great.

Thanks.  =)


> However, the sequencer is the worst I've ever seen in a long time.
> As I said the other day, it lacks a basic UNDO function that is just
> too important to be left out.

Again, "Revert to saved" is tantamount to undo.


> It lacks a BAR COPY/PASTE function which is the basic of any
> sequencing work. Without it, if you got a wrong bar in a series of
> 8, you have to redo all 8. The Erase switch is just too awkward to
> be used in this context.

Again, get the latest OS before judging this one...


> The EXTEND SEQUENCE function is not very interesting. You
> can lose that if you implement the BAR COPY function.

Probably true.  We may or may not get rid of it in the next release. where
we'll have paste repeat.  However, it does work on any or all tracks at once,
whereas bar copy might not.


> The extensive synth programming functions interest no one here.

I'm surprised no one bit your head off for that comment!  =)  Those 16
quick-edit knobs and easy synth programming are two of the biggest features
of the box!


> We want a big sound library engine with realtime controls
> and easy but complete sequencing. Do not assume we all use
> software sequencers; I don't, and I'm a professional. And do not
> assume we are interested in modulating LFO2 with Velocity and
> Aftertouch with whatsoever else and its cousin. Most of us don't
> even haveTHE TIME to even access those menus, much less so
> use them. A good amount of quick edit knobs is all we want and
> use.

We don't assume that you are a software sequencer user.  We provide tools to
help you if you so choose to integrate with a computer, but by no means is it
necessary.  In the latest OS (1.18, which you really should get) there's a
full list editor allowing you to go and tweak every last controller value of
note duration till your heart's content.


> The sequencer is my biggest issue here. I mean, I've seen
> sequencing engines since 1988, and I've seen them all, being a
> dealer. This engine here would get serious kicks in the ass by
> any Roland or Yamaha or Korg groovebox, even the smallest
> ones.

I have to disagree here.  I may be biased, but I think the sequencer compares
favorably to the gear I've played with.  16 full multichannel tracks, full
midi routing for internal sounds/external gear, full realtime interactivity,
quick access to all functions, etc.  I think I'm not allowed to comment on or
do a direct comparison with our competitors' products, but I could, and you'd
be surprised about the things the XL-7 does that get taken for granted, that
our competitors fall short on.


> The mute buttons have a nice touch, but that's it.  Editing
> the pattern is a joke; there is no serious editing function. Again, if
> EMU engineers assumed we'd all use different sequencing
> means they assumed wrongly. If I'd use an external sequencer,
> why even implement a sequencer here? But if you do implement
> it, then you have to FULLY implement it, or you aren't doing your
> job properly. EXPECIALLY IN THIS PRICE RANGE.

I hate to keep harping on the 1.18 software issue, but you really should
explore it before making comments pertaining to sequence editability.


> EMU should have looked at the sequencing structure of a
> Roland MC-505 or a Yamaha RM1X. I  have both, and I can tell
> you that, although the waveforms and the quality of sound in the
> Roland do suck, the sequencer is massive compared to this one
> here, and the synthesis functions are all there, too. And the
> Yamaha has a seriously powerful sequencer, too.

We have.  I have a few in my office, and the ones I don't have, I've played
with elsewhere.  The synth functions are nothing compared to the XL-7, and
the sequencers, while different in very many regards, are comparable.


> So my verdict is thumbs down, I'm sorry. I will get rid of this
> machine ASAP and I don't think I'll be looking into other EMU
> gear for a while. Not unless they go back to the drawing board
> and re-design the OS from the bottom.

That's unfortunate, but quite honestly, I feel that you should reserve
judgment till you give the latest OS a try.  If it turns out that it's still
not the product for you, that's fair enough.  However, don't assume that just
because it's not right for you, that it's not right for anyone else.

-Aaron

I've got some more in there Aaron:



What less important functions would you like to see deferred to menus? 
>>>Glide (especially, as there's very little use for it live/realtime), 
Erase, and Repeat.  The later two occasionally come in handy, but rarely 
enough that I personally wouldn't mind a button combination.  EDIT+STOP 
for Erase, EDIT + PLAY for Repeat for instance.  It would free up two 
buttons for Revert To Saved and something else, which would be far better 
if it has it's own button. <<<

Probably true.  We may or may not get rid of it in the next release. where 
we'll have paste repeat.  However, it does work on any or all tracks at 
once, whereas bar copy might not.

>>>Please tell me we'll see the ability to overwrite MIDI info, not just 
merge it with the existing data?  That would save A LOT of button presses 
for simple operations. <<<
 
The extensive synth programming functions interest no one here.
I'm surprised no one bit your head off for that comment!  =)

>>>It was difficult to restrain myself the first time around:) <<<
 
We don't assume that you are a software sequencer user.  We provide tools 
to help you if you so choose to integrate with a computer, but by no means 
is it necessary.

>>>While you may not assume that all users are using software sequencers, 
inherently they MUST have a computer with MIDI port in order to save 
anything, or load a new OS.  In the case of OS 1.18, I'd say it was almost 
critical to do the update.  A lot iof people I know who are interested in 
the XX-7 comment on this lack of back up.  Just $.02.  I met a guy this 
past weekend with an MP-7, who had no idea that he could update the MP-7 
to a new OS.  He was all set to take it back to the store, until I offered 
to upgrade it for him.  Perhaps Emu could send out notices (snail mail) to 
registered users when new OS are released, at least the major OS fixes. Or 
set up something with the larger dealers (GC, Mars, Sam Ash ) so that 
users without computers can bring theirs in for free updating?<<<

I have to disagree here.  I may be biased, but I think the sequencer 
compares favorably to the gear I've played with.  16 full multichannel 
tracks, full midi routing for internal sounds/external gear, full realtime 
interactivity, quick access to all functions, etc.  I think I'm not 
allowed to comment on or do a direct comparison with our competitors' 
products, but I could, and you'd be surprised about the things the XL-7 
does that get taken for granted, that our competitors fall short on.

>>>Yeah, in terms of raw power and flexibility the XX-7's seqeuncers 
compare nicely, it's the pattern and song EDITING features where they 
really fall behind.  They're still really great sequencers, but you need 
to do a lot of extra button pushes to do most of the simple editing 
features.  I know you guys can't comment on other gear, but I've used both 
the mc505 (very extensively) and the RM1x, so I can do it for you. :) Lack 
of groove quantize is another biggy for some people, although I think 
Shuffle works just fine.<<<
 
rEalm

I have used the 505 and the 303 (MC) for about 5 years total.  In some
ways I like the 505 sequencer, but I think the EMu one will be better
at the end of the day.

But the 505 sounds are just a joke (my opinion).  Compared to an XL-7
with some the good ROMs and two sticks of my own samples, there is no
way to compare.

It did take about a week of working to get "into the mind set" of this
beast, but having done that, I am quite comfortable with it.

My XL-7 goes when i play out now, the 505 stays at home.  I still like
the 505 in many ways, but it can't compare.

I guess that is the final score.

Bruce

I have used the 505 and the 303 (MC) for about 5 years total.  In some 
ways I like the 505 sequencer, but I think the EMu one will be better at 
the end of the day.

>>>I think if Emu get a couple more weird quirks sorted out, it'll 
definitely be better.  While you can do almost anything on the XL-7 that 
the other boxes do (and then some in a few cases), it's the implemetation 
of those functions that's a bit odd at times.  I understand though, they 
really can't copy features right from any one machine :) <<<

But the 505 sounds are just a joke (my opinion).  Compared to an XL-7 with 
some the good ROMs and two sticks of my own samples, there is no way to 
compare.

>>>Agreed, and that's largely whay I didn't go with Roland when I was 
shopping for a good live box this time around.  The sounds compared to thr 
EMu are very flat and lack a lot of depth. Roland was initally going to be 
releasing new sounds for the 505 (I helped consult on some of this work), 
I don't know (or care now) why they decided not to. <<<

It did take about a week of working to get "into the mind set" of this 
beast, but having done that, I am quite comfortable with it.

>>>Yeah, I too had to "un-Roland" myself when learning the XL-7, but once 
that happened, it was easy to be up and running quickly on the XL-7.  It's 
getting there! <<<

rEalm