Emu XL-7 & MP-7 User's Group

Hello again.
Having dug  into the machine extensively during this weekend,  
I'm afraid I have a few more complaints to report, adding to my 
previous post. 
In fact, at this point I must admit I am pretty disappointed with 
this machine and I think I will put it back on sale, and start 
looking for something else instead.

The patterns are good but I don't care about those, we all make 
our own after all. So that doesn't count.
The sounds in the MP7 native Rom are unusable. Have I found a 
single, usable piano, strings or organ sound that behaves 
normally? No. Only detuned, crappy distorted presets. 
The drumkits and basses are okay, though.

The interface and OS are good and responsive. The buttons are 
great.

However, the sequencer is the worst I've ever seen in a long 
time. 
As I said the other day, it lacks a basic UNDO function that is just 
too important to be left out.
It lacks a BAR COPY/PASTE function which is the basic of any 
sequencing work. Without it, if you got a wrong bar in a series of 
8, you have to redo all 8. The Erase switch is just too awkward to 
be used in this context.
The EXTEND SEQUENCE function is not very interesting. You 
can lose that if you implement the BAR COPY function.

The extensive synth programming functions interest no one 
here. We want a big sound library engine with realtime controls 
and easy but complete sequencing. Do not assume we all use 
software sequencers; I don't, and I'm a professional. And do not 
assume we are interested in modulating LFO2 with Velocity and 
Aftertouch with whatsoever else and its cousin. Most of us don't 
even haveTHE TIME to even access those menus, much less so 
use them. A good amount of quick edit knobs is all we want and 
use.

The sequencer is my biggest issue here. I mean, I've seen 
sequencing engines since 1988, and I've seen them all, being a 
dealer. This engine here would get serious kicks in the ass by 
any Roland or Yamaha or Korg groovebox, even the smallest 
ones. The mute buttons have a nice touch, but that's it.  Editing 
the pattern is a joke; there is no serious editing function. Again, if 
EMU engineers assumed we'd all use different sequencing 
means they assumed wrongly. If I'd use an external sequencer, 
why even implement a sequencer here? But if you do implement 
it, then you have to FULLY implement it, or you aren't doing your 
job properly. EXPECIALLY IN THIS PRICE RANGE.

EMU should have looked at the sequencing structure of a 
Roland MC-505 or a Yamaha RM1X. I  have both, and I can tell 
you that, although the waveforms and the quality of sound in the 
Roland do suck, the sequencer is massive compared to this one 
here, and the synthesis functions are all there, too. And the 
Yamaha has a seriously powerful sequencer, too.

So my verdict is thumbs down, I'm sorry. I will get rid of this 
machine ASAP and I don't think I'll be looking into other EMU 
gear for a while. Not unless they go back to the drawing board 
and re-design the OS from the bottom.

I Hope u get a machine that satisfies you , but why not wait a little 
longer till the next OS update. XX-7 are still kinda new and theres 
another thing..

Good things come to those who wait..

cheers

just a few words

> The patterns are good but I don't care about those, we all make 
> our own after all. So that doesn't count.
> The sounds in the MP7 native Rom are unusable. Have I found a 
> single, usable piano, strings or organ sound that behaves 
> normally? No. Only detuned, crappy distorted presets. 
> The drumkits and basses are okay, though.

When i would have to agree about tbe organ/piano thing.

> The interface and OS are good and responsive. The buttons are 
> great.

yep.

> However, the sequencer is the worst I've ever seen in a long 
> time. 
> As I said the other day, it lacks a basic UNDO function that is 
just too important to be left out.

What OS are you using? if you are not using 1.18 then start using it.
there is a revert to saved in 1.18.
> It lacks a BAR COPY/PASTE function which is the basic of any 
> sequencing work. Without it, if you got a wrong bar in a series of 
> 8, you have to redo all 8. The Erase switch is just too awkward to 
> be used in this context.

there is copy bar in the pattern menue.
.
> 
> The extensive synth programming functions interest no one 
> here.

Speak for yourself.  That is one of the best things about this box.

we want a big sound library engine with realtime controls 
> and easy but complete sequencing. Do not assume we all use 
> software sequencers; I don't, and I'm a professional. And do not 
> assume we are interested in modulating LFO2 with Velocity and 
> Aftertouch with whatsoever else and its cousin. Most of us don't 
> even haveTHE TIME to even access those menus, much less so 
> use them. A good amount of quick edit knobs is all we want and 
> use.

I use the cords all the time and could not make the music that i do 
with out them and i am also making records.
> 
> The sequencer is my biggest issue here. I mean, I've seen 
> sequencing engines since 1988, and I've seen them all, being a 
> dealer. This engine here would get serious kicks in the ass by 
> any Roland or Yamaha or Korg groovebox, even the smallest 
> ones. The mute buttons have a nice touch, but that's it.  Editing 
> the pattern is a joke; there is no serious editing function. 
>Again, if EMU engineers assumed we'd all use different sequencing 
> means they assumed wrongly. If I'd use an external sequencer, 
> why even implement a sequencer here? But if you do implement 
> it, then you have to FULLY implement it, or you aren't doing your 
> job properly. EXPECIALLY IN THIS PRICE RANGE.

I have to agree here waiting for things to get straightend out have 
taken more energy than i would like to admit.
> 
> EMU should have looked at the sequencing structure of a 
> Roland MC-505 or a Yamaha RM1X. I  have both, and I can tell 
> you that, although the waveforms and the quality of sound in the 
> Roland do suck, the sequencer is massive compared to this one 
> here, and the synthesis functions are all there, too. And the 
> Yamaha has a seriously powerful sequencer, too.

I owned a RM1x and it had a very good sequencer but it did not do 
some things that i love in the 7's.  Like real time quantise as well 
as i dont have to hit stop to do just about any thing to my patterns.
> 
> So my verdict is thumbs down, I'm sorry. I will get rid of this 
> machine ASAP and I don't think I'll be looking into other EMU 
> gear for a while. Not unless they go back to the drawing board 
> and re-design the OS from the bottom.

Well i felt that way for a little wile but i reolized that there is 
not a bettr box for what i do out there that i can see and i have 
looked.  The E-MU support it unmached and have been the main force 
keeping me a tru emu head.

Peace 

Mike

The sounds in the MP7 native Rom are unusable. Have I found a single, 
usable piano, strings or organ sound that behaves normally? No. Only 
detuned, crappy distorted presets. The drumkits and basses are okay, 
though.

>>>The Roms that come with the Command stations are very genre specific. 
You won't find good pianos and the like in the MP&XL-7's.  You need to get 
the Sounds of the ZR Rom for that. <<<

However, the sequencer is the worst I've ever seen in a long time. As I 
said the other day, it lacks a basic UNDO function that is just too 
important to be left out. 

>>>I think alot of the complaints you have are fixed in the the 1.18 OS 
update, which includes a "Revert To Saved" feature similiar to Undo.  It 
would be nice if this was hardwired to the Compare button though, I agree 
on that. <<<

It lacks a BAR COPY/PASTE function which is the basic of any sequencing 
work. Without it, if you got a wrong bar in a series of 8, you have to 
redo all 8. The Erase switch is just too awkward to be used in this 
context. The EXTEND SEQUENCE function is not very interesting. You can 
lose that if you implement the BAR COPY function.

>>>The new OS does allow you to specify a bar range for Copy and Cut, 
althogh it was mistakenly left out of the Paste screen.  Emu said it'll be 
included in the next OS update.  Hopefully they'll include the ability to 
Paste overwrite, not just merge as it is currently. <<<

The extensive synth programming functions interest no one here. We want a 
big sound library engine with realtime controls and easy but complete 
sequencing. Do not assume we all use software sequencers; I don't, and I'm 
a professional. And do not assume we are interested in modulating LFO2 
with Velocity and Aftertouch with whatsoever else and its cousin. Most of 
us don't even haveTHE TIME to even access those menus, much less so use 
them. A good amount of quick edit knobs is all we want and use.

>>>Well, most people don't have extensive sound libraries, so the 
extensive Preset editing features are very welcome.  As for wanting knobs, 
look at the front panel, there's quite a few there :) BTW, sometimes 
making good music takes time, so I've heard. <<<

EMU should have looked at the sequencing structure of a Roland MC-505 or a 
Yamaha RM1X. I  have both, and I can tell 
you that, although the waveforms and the quality of sound in the Roland do 
suck, the sequencer is massive compared to this one here, and the 
synthesis functions are all there, too. And the Yamaha has a seriously 
powerful sequencer, too.

>>>I hate to say it but you're right on this account.  The mc505 and even 
the cheaper RM1x have much more powerful sequencers, with the Yamaha 
surprisingly having more features than the more expensive Roland.  That 
being said, there's very few things you can't do on the XL-7, that can be 
done on the others (groove quatizing being one).  I think Emu are on the 
right track, and they genuinely seem to want to make the sequencer 
features better.  Hopefully the next OS will address a lot of these 
(relatively minor) issues, if not...  Well, the sequencer still work fine 
for me. <<<

So my verdict is thumbs down, I'm sorry. I will get rid of this machine 
ASAP and I don't think I'll be looking into other EMU gear for a while. 
Not unless they go back to the drawing board and re-design the OS from the 
bottom.

>>>Best of luck then! <<<

rEalm

--- In xl7@y..., "argomax2002" <argomax@g...> wrote:
> The extensive synth programming functions interest no one
> here. We want a big sound library engine with realtime controls
> and easy but complete sequencing. Do not assume we all use
> software sequencers; I don't, and I'm a professional. And do not
> assume we are interested in modulating LFO2 with Velocity and
> Aftertouch with whatsoever else and its cousin. Most of us don't
> even haveTHE TIME to even access those menus, much less so
> use them. A good amount of quick edit knobs is all we want and
> use.

Interest no one where? Some of us want to be able to program our own sounds from scratch. Don't assume we're all preset twiddlers.

> EMU should have looked at the sequencing structure of a
> Roland MC-505 or a Yamaha RM1X. I  have both, and I can tell
> you that, although the waveforms and the quality of sound in the
> Roland do suck, the sequencer is massive compared to this one
> here, and the synthesis functions are all there, too. And the
> Yamaha has a seriously powerful sequencer, too.

The XX-7 sequencer could still use some work, but it sounds like it's getting some. And while the 505 and RM1x have some features I'd dearly like to see included in the E-mu, they're not without problems as well. The 505 has fixed channel assignments, has a response lag on pattern calls (no 1-bar pattern switching) and grid edits, and the RPS is internal-only and gets cut off if you switch to pattern call mode. The RM1x is pretty powerful but can't do seamless song-switching, has a grid edit mode that is broken, and has an arpeggiator that's a joke. If the XX-7's sequencer develops some of the power and flexibility of the synth engine it could be lethal.

You might try looking at the Proteus 2500 if thats what your looking for. I
had one
and traded it in for an MP-7 (with the Synth Const Yard ROM also) just
because
I couldn't stand the layout of the 2500. But it is awesome as far as it's
sound library,
I wish a model like the MP-7 or XL-7 came with all of the 2500's sounds and
patterns,
I would have bought that one hands down.
  -----Original Message-----
  From: argomax2002 [mailto:argomax@...]
  Sent: Monday, February 04, 2002 5:14 AM
  To: xl7@yahoogroups.com
  Subject: [xl7] COMMENTS ON MP7 -PART 2


  Hello again.
  Having dug  into the machine extensively during this weekend,
  I'm afraid I have a few more complaints to report, adding to my
  previous post.
  In fact, at this point I must admit I am pretty disappointed with
  this machine and I think I will put it back on sale, and start
  looking for something else instead.

  The patterns are good but I don't care about those, we all make
  our own after all. So that doesn't count.
  The sounds in the MP7 native Rom are unusable. Have I found a
  single, usable piano, strings or organ sound that behaves
  normally? No. Only detuned, crappy distorted presets.
  The drumkits and basses are okay, though.

  The interface and OS are good and responsive. The buttons are
  great.

  However, the sequencer is the worst I've ever seen in a long
  time.
  As I said the other day, it lacks a basic UNDO function that is just
  too important to be left out.
  It lacks a BAR COPY/PASTE function which is the basic of any
  sequencing work. Without it, if you got a wrong bar in a series of
  8, you have to redo all 8. The Erase switch is just too awkward to
  be used in this context.
  The EXTEND SEQUENCE function is not very interesting. You
  can lose that if you implement the BAR COPY function.

  The extensive synth programming functions interest no one
  here. We want a big sound library engine with realtime controls
  and easy but complete sequencing. Do not assume we all use
  software sequencers; I don't, and I'm a professional. And do not
  assume we are interested in modulating LFO2 with Velocity and
  Aftertouch with whatsoever else and its cousin. Most of us don't
  even haveTHE TIME to even access those menus, much less so
  use them. A good amount of quick edit knobs is all we want and
  use.

  The sequencer is my biggest issue here. I mean, I've seen
  sequencing engines since 1988, and I've seen them all, being a
  dealer. This engine here would get serious kicks in the ass by
  any Roland or Yamaha or Korg groovebox, even the smallest
  ones. The mute buttons have a nice touch, but that's it.  Editing
  the pattern is a joke; there is no serious editing function. Again, if
  EMU engineers assumed we'd all use different sequencing
  means they assumed wrongly. If I'd use an external sequencer,
  why even implement a sequencer here? But if you do implement
  it, then you have to FULLY implement it, or you aren't doing your
  job properly. EXPECIALLY IN THIS PRICE RANGE.

  EMU should have looked at the sequencing structure of a
  Roland MC-505 or a Yamaha RM1X. I  have both, and I can tell
  you that, although the waveforms and the quality of sound in the
  Roland do suck, the sequencer is massive compared to this one
  here, and the synthesis functions are all there, too. And the
  Yamaha has a seriously powerful sequencer, too.

  So my verdict is thumbs down, I'm sorry. I will get rid of this
  machine ASAP and I don't think I'll be looking into other EMU
  gear for a while. Not unless they go back to the drawing board
  and re-design the OS from the bottom.




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--- In xl7@y..., "Panzare" <panzare@m...> wrote:
> You might try looking at the Proteus 2500 if thats what your 
looking for. I
> had one
> and traded it in for an MP-7 (with the Synth Const Yard ROM also) 
just
> because
> I couldn't stand the layout of the 2500. But it is awesome as far 
as it's
> sound library,
> I wish a model like the MP-7 or XL-7 came with all of the 2500's 
sounds and
> patterns,
> I would have bought that one hands down.


>>>>> Emu, when is a decent bread and butter Sound- ROM to be 
released? (I bought the ZR-Card, but apart from the pano,which is no 
doubt wonderful and  some decent drums the rest is very outdated and 
cannot hold a candle to competitors with only 16 mb-sound-cards like 
yammies, even korg etc.) After we heard the XX-7 have just the same 
internal guts and output quality, where´s the problem putting the 
sound ROM of the 2500 on the market for sale? 
I do not quite understand your product policy: 3 hardware versions 
(rackmountable MP-7 / XL-7 / 2500) with basically the same features? 
The flexibility to upgrade them through 3 ROM-slots is great and was 
important for my buying decision. Now I wonder where to find good 
bread and butter sounds, that cover brass, organs, windwood, strings. 
The sounds of the ZR are not competitive in that department. Could 
the soundboard of the P2500 be a solution?
I definitely won´t buy 3 expensive and very specialised ROMs to help 
my needs. I would spend way more money than for a competitors 
workstation with nearly 90 MB SoundROM and a sampler + keyboard 
included. 

Heinrich


>   -----Original Message-----
>   From: argomax2002 [mailto:argomax@g...]
>   Sent: Monday, February 04, 2002 5:14 AM
>   To: xl7@y...
>   Subject: [xl7] COMMENTS ON MP7 -PART 2
> 
> 
>   Hello again.
>   Having dug  into the machine extensively during this weekend,
>   I'm afraid I have a few more complaints to report, adding to my
>   previous post.
>   In fact, at this point I must admit I am pretty disappointed with
>   this machine and I think I will put it back on sale, and start
>   looking for something else instead.
> 
>   The patterns are good but I don't care about those, we all make
>   our own after all. So that doesn't count.
>   The sounds in the MP7 native Rom are unusable. Have I found a
>   single, usable piano, strings or organ sound that behaves
>   normally? No. Only detuned, crappy distorted presets.
>   The drumkits and basses are okay, though.
> 
>   The interface and OS are good and responsive. The buttons are
>   great.
> 
>   However, the sequencer is the worst I've ever seen in a long
>   time.
>   As I said the other day, it lacks a basic UNDO function that is 
just
>   too important to be left out.
>   It lacks a BAR COPY/PASTE function which is the basic of any
>   sequencing work. Without it, if you got a wrong bar in a series of
>   8, you have to redo all 8. The Erase switch is just too awkward to
>   be used in this context.
>   The EXTEND SEQUENCE function is not very interesting. You
>   can lose that if you implement the BAR COPY function.
> 
>   The extensive synth programming functions interest no one
>   here. We want a big sound library engine with realtime controls
>   and easy but complete sequencing. Do not assume we all use
>   software sequencers; I don't, and I'm a professional. And do not
>   assume we are interested in modulating LFO2 with Velocity and
>   Aftertouch with whatsoever else and its cousin. Most of us don't
>   even haveTHE TIME to even access those menus, much less so
>   use them. A good amount of quick edit knobs is all we want and
>   use.
> 
>   The sequencer is my biggest issue here. I mean, I've seen
>   sequencing engines since 1988, and I've seen them all, being a
>   dealer. This engine here would get serious kicks in the ass by
>   any Roland or Yamaha or Korg groovebox, even the smallest
>   ones. The mute buttons have a nice touch, but that's it.  Editing
>   the pattern is a joke; there is no serious editing function. 
Again, if
>   EMU engineers assumed we'd all use different sequencing
>   means they assumed wrongly. If I'd use an external sequencer,
>   why even implement a sequencer here? But if you do implement
>   it, then you have to FULLY implement it, or you aren't doing your
>   job properly. EXPECIALLY IN THIS PRICE RANGE.
> 
>   EMU should have looked at the sequencing structure of a
>   Roland MC-505 or a Yamaha RM1X. I  have both, and I can tell
>   you that, although the waveforms and the quality of sound in the
>   Roland do suck, the sequencer is massive compared to this one
>   here, and the synthesis functions are all there, too. And the
>   Yamaha has a seriously powerful sequencer, too.
> 
>   So my verdict is thumbs down, I'm sorry. I will get rid of this
>   machine ASAP and I don't think I'll be looking into other EMU
>   gear for a while. Not unless they go back to the drawing board
>   and re-design the OS from the bottom.
> 
> 
> 
> 
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