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How do I make my bass line "drop"??

How do I make my bass line "drop"??

2004-03-22 by Herschel Newman

Hello,
 
I'm trying to get that real feeling on my PX7 with my bass line.  Its kinda hard to explain, but on some of my bass riffs I'd like to make the last note drop...just like a real bass player would pluck the string and run his/her hand up the neck of the bass...that's what I mean by 'drop'...Is there a patchcord for this?
 
Can anyone help??
 
bombnem

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Re: [xl7] How do I make my bass line "drop"??

2004-03-22 by erik_magrini@Baxter.com

I would just record a pitchbend move by using the touchstrip.  Be sure to 
go into the Preset Edit menu and change the picthbend amount if yo're not 
getting enough "drop".

rEalm





"Herschel Newman" <bombnem@...>
03/22/2004 07:21 AM
Please respond to xl7

 
        To:     xl7@yahoogroups.com
        cc: 
        Subject:        [xl7] How do I make my bass line "drop"??


Hello,
 
I'm trying to get that real feeling on my PX7 with my bass line.  Its 
kinda hard to explain, but on some of my bass riffs I'd like to make the 
last note drop...just like a real bass player would pluck the string and 
run his/her hand up the neck of the bass...that's what I mean by 
'drop'...Is there a patchcord for this?
 
Can anyone help??
 
bombnem

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Re: [xl7] How do I make my bass line "drop"??

2004-03-22 by Herschel Newman

Thanks, Erik!  That will do it!
 
bombnem

erik_magrini@... wrote:
I would just record a pitchbend move by using the touchstrip.  Be sure to 
go into the Preset Edit menu and change the picthbend amount if yo're not 
getting enough "drop".

rEalm





"Herschel Newman" <bombnem@...>
03/22/2004 07:21 AM
Please respond to xl7


        To:     xl7@yahoogroups.com
        cc: 
        Subject:        [xl7] How do I make my bass line "drop"??


Hello,

I'm trying to get that real feeling on my PX7 with my bass line.  Its 
kinda hard to explain, but on some of my bass riffs I'd like to make the 
last note drop...just like a real bass player would pluck the string and 
run his/her hand up the neck of the bass...that's what I mean by 
'drop'...Is there a patchcord for this?

Can anyone help??

bombnem

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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




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Re: [xl7] How do I make my bass line "drop"??

2004-03-22 by Aaron Eppolito

If you want even more realism, you could route pitchbend to volume as
well, giving you a slight volume dropoff as you slide down.  Even
further, you could route pitchbend to quantize and quantize to pitch to
get the feel of stopping at the frets.  Experiment with the values to
get it sounding real...

-Aaron

--- Herschel Newman <bombnem@...> wrote:
> Thanks, Erik!  That will do it!
>  
> bombnem
> 
> erik_magrini@... wrote:
> I would just record a pitchbend move by using the touchstrip.  Be
> sure to go into the Preset Edit menu and change the picthbend amount
> if yo're not getting enough "drop".
> 
> rEalm
> 
> I'd like to make the last note drop...

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Re: How do I make my bass line "drop"??

2004-03-23 by robotchas

--- In xl7@yahoogroups.com, Aaron Eppolito <synthesis77@y...> wrote:
> If you want even more realism, you could route pitchbend to volume as
> well, giving you a slight volume dropoff as you slide down.  Even
> further, you could route pitchbend to quantize and quantize to pitch to
> get the feel of stopping at the frets.  Experiment with the values to
> get it sounding real...
> 
> -Aaron

Or even pitchbend -> quantize -> lag -> pitch...

Re: [xl7] How do I make my bass line "drop"??

2004-03-23 by erik_magrini@Baxter.com

If you want even MORE realism, you could hire a bass player to play what 
you want, sample his playing, burn an Emu ROM of that sample and put it 
into your XX-7.  Total realism, like a midget bass player in your XX-7!

rEalm
(no offense to any midget bass players on the list!)





If you want even more realism, you could route pitchbend to volume as
well, giving you a slight volume dropoff as you slide down.  Even
further, you could route pitchbend to quantize and quantize to pitch to
get the feel of stopping at the frets.  Experiment with the values to
get it sounding real...

-Aaron

--- Herschel Newman <bombnem@...> wrote:
> Thanks, Erik!  That will do it!
> 
> bombnem
> 
> erik_magrini@... wrote:
> I would just record a pitchbend move by using the touchstrip.  Be
> sure to go into the Preset Edit menu and change the picthbend amount
> if yo're not getting enough "drop".
> 
> rEalm
> 
> I'd like to make the last note drop...

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Re: How do I make my bass line "drop"??

2004-03-23 by steve_the_composer

--- In xl7@yahoogroups.com, "robotchas" <robotchas@y...> wrote:

> Or even pitchbend -> quantize -> lag -> pitch...

I follow the logic.  Can't wait to give it a try!!!

Re: How do I make my bass line "drop"??

2004-03-23 by steve_the_composer

--- In xl7@yahoogroups.com, erik_magrini@B... wrote:
> If you want even MORE realism, you could hire a bass player to play
> what you want, sample his playing, burn an Emu ROM of that sample
> and put it into your XX-7.  Total realism, like a midget bass
> player in your XX-7!
> 
> rEalm


This deserves an award.  "Funniest good-natured reply of the month." 
Or something like that.

BTW, when will "Midgets in a Box" be released?

Re: [xl7] Re: How do I make my bass line "drop"??

2004-03-23 by Aaron Eppolito

--- steve_the_composer <smw-mail@...> wrote:
> BTW, when will "Midgets in a Box" be released? 

From Outkast's "The Way You Move":

Trunk rattlin' like two midgets in the back seat wrasling
Speakerbox vibrate the tank, make it sound like aluminum cans in the
back.
But I know ya'll wanted that 808, can you feel that B-A-S-S, bass

-Aaron

PS. I like the lag idea (Bend->Quan->Lag->Pitch)

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Re: [xl7] Re: How do I make my bass line "drop"??

2004-03-24 by Aaron Eppolito

Fooling around while watching TV:

MIDI N   -> Quantize  +75%
Quantize -> Fine Pitch -6%
Quantize -> Pitch     -50%
MIDI N   -> AmpVol    -30%
MIDI N   -> FiltFreq -100%

Turning N from 0 to 127 will drop the sound an octave, in half step
increments, turn the volume down, and progressively muffle the sound. 
Oddly enough, since the octave slide is so quick, you pretty much don't
hear the individual steps.  You could relocate Fine Pitch's input to be
MIDI N at -4 or -5% instead to get a little less harsh edge if you hear
it.

I'm tempted to try making a poor man's differentiator to get a little
bit of a buzz at each "fret change" but I'm not sure I'm motivated
enough for that tonight.

Okay, maybe I am:

Quantize -> Gain4X   +100%
Quantize -> Lag0In   +100%
Lag0     -> Abs      -100%
Abs      -> FiltFreq +100%

So, it's not quite as exciting as I hoped.  Maybe with a better filter
and the Q up a bit.  Or maybe use the same cords on an additional layer
with the volume turned down, but route Abs to AmpVol instead.  This
will give you a pulse of sound at each note change.  With a buzzy synth
instrument on that layer, it might sound right.

Synths rule.

-Aaron

--- steve_the_composer <smw-mail@...> wrote:
> I follow the logic.  Can't wait to give it a try!!!


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Re: [xl7] Re: How do I make my bass line "drop"??

2004-03-24 by erik_magrini@Baxter.com

My buddy's been playing the breaks remix of that track non-stop, driving 
me nuts.  I didn't want an 808 I keep telling him...

I nominate this post as the "second most annoying but only to rEalm post 
of the month"  :)

rEalm






But I know ya'll wanted that 808, can you feel that B-A-S-S, bass

-Aaron

PS. I like the lag idea (Bend->Quan->Lag->Pitch)

__________________________________
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Re: [xl7] Re: How do I make my bass line "drop"??

2004-03-24 by erik_magrini@Baxter.com

Wicked man,,,,,

rEalm





"Aaron Eppolito" <synthesis77@...>
03/24/2004 12:39 AM
Please respond to xl7

 
        To:     xl7@yahoogroups.com
        cc: 
        Subject:        Re: [xl7] Re: How do I make my bass line "drop"??


Fooling around while watching TV:

MIDI N   -> Quantize  +75%
Quantize -> Fine Pitch -6%
Quantize -> Pitch     -50%
MIDI N   -> AmpVol    -30%
MIDI N   -> FiltFreq -100%

Turning N from 0 to 127 will drop the sound an octave, in half step
increments, turn the volume down, and progressively muffle the sound. 
Oddly enough, since the octave slide is so quick, you pretty much don't
hear the individual steps.  You could relocate Fine Pitch's input to be
MIDI N at -4 or -5% instead to get a little less harsh edge if you hear
it.

I'm tempted to try making a poor man's differentiator to get a little
bit of a buzz at each "fret change" but I'm not sure I'm motivated
enough for that tonight.

Okay, maybe I am:

Quantize -> Gain4X   +100%
Quantize -> Lag0In   +100%
Lag0     -> Abs      -100%
Abs      -> FiltFreq +100%

So, it's not quite as exciting as I hoped.  Maybe with a better filter
and the Q up a bit.  Or maybe use the same cords on an additional layer
with the volume turned down, but route Abs to AmpVol instead.  This
will give you a pulse of sound at each note change.  With a buzzy synth
instrument on that layer, it might sound right.

Synths rule.

-Aaron

--- steve_the_composer <smw-mail@...> wrote:
> I follow the logic.  Can't wait to give it a try!!!


__________________________________
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RE: [xl7] Re: How do I make my bass line "drop"??

2004-03-24 by Andre Lewis

There's a breaks mix of that!!??  SWEET! 

-----Original Message-----
From: erik_magrini@... [mailto:erik_magrini@...] 
Sent: Wednesday, March 24, 2004 5:06 AM
To: xl7@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [xl7] Re: How do I make my bass line "drop"??

My buddy's been playing the breaks remix of that track non-stop, driving 
me nuts.  I didn't want an 808 I keep telling him...

I nominate this post as the "second most annoying but only to rEalm post 
of the month"  :)

rEalm






But I know ya'll wanted that 808, can you feel that B-A-S-S, bass

-Aaron

PS. I like the lag idea (Bend->Quan->Lag->Pitch)

__________________________________
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Yahoo! Finance Tax Center - File online. File on time.
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RE: [xl7] Re: How do I make my bass line "drop"??

2004-03-24 by erik_magrini@Baxter.com

Yeah, it's real minimal, something I wouldn't really play to a dancefloor, 
unless it was a hip hop crowd or something.  Bootleg version though, I 
think releaserecords.com has it for sale....

rEalm





"Andre Lewis" <andrel@...>
03/24/2004 07:56 AM
Please respond to xl7

 
        To:     xl7@yahoogroups.com
        cc: 
        Subject:        RE: [xl7] Re: How do I make my bass line "drop"??


There's a breaks mix of that!!??  SWEET! 

-----Original Message-----
From: erik_magrini@... [mailto:erik_magrini@...] 
Sent: Wednesday, March 24, 2004 5:06 AM
To: xl7@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [xl7] Re: How do I make my bass line "drop"??

My buddy's been playing the breaks remix of that track non-stop, driving 
me nuts.  I didn't want an 808 I keep telling him...

I nominate this post as the "second most annoying but only to rEalm post 
of the month"  :)

rEalm






But I know ya'll wanted that 808, can you feel that B-A-S-S, bass

-Aaron

PS. I like the lag idea (Bend->Quan->Lag->Pitch)

__________________________________
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Yahoo! Finance Tax Center - File online. File on time.
http://taxes.yahoo.com/filing.html


 
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Re: [xl7] Re: How do I make my bass line "drop"??

2004-03-25 by erik_magrini@Baxter.com

Yeah, I did this one last night too, and with a slap bass patch from the 
PX-7 ROM, it sounds very realistic too.  Nice one Aaron! 

Do you think you could explain your thought process behind using each one 
of those modulation options?  I know that they can be confusing to some, 
and while the manual tells you what they CAN do, it doesn't raelly give 
you many options for that they could be used for in the real world.  I'd 
love to start compiling a Presets tips and tricks, listing possible uses 
for the more esoteric mod options.  so if anyone has any ideas, post them!

rEalm






--- In xl7@yahoogroups.com, Aaron Eppolito <synthesis77@y...> wrote:
> MIDI N   -> Quantize  +75%
> Quantize -> Fine Pitch -6%
> Quantize -> Pitch     -50%
> MIDI N   -> AmpVol    -30%
> MIDI N   -> FiltFreq -100%
> 
> [snip]
> 
> Quantize -> Gain4X   +100%
> Quantize -> Lag0In   +100%
> Lag0     -> Abs      -100%
> Abs      -> FiltFreq +100%

Cool cords to try!!!  This may inspire others to try their own!





 
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RE: [xl7] Re: How do I make my bass line "drop"??

2004-03-25 by Stu

|-----Original Message-----
|From: erik_magrini@... [mailto:erik_magrini@...]
|Sent: 25 March 2004 12:58
|To: xl7@yahoogroups.com
|Subject: Re: [xl7] Re: How do I make my bass line "drop"??
|
|
|Yeah, I did this one last night too, and with a slap bass patch from the 
|PX-7 ROM, it sounds very realistic too.  Nice one Aaron! 
|
|Do you think you could explain your thought process behind using each one 
|of those modulation options?  I know that they can be confusing to some, 
|and while the manual tells you what they CAN do, it doesn't raelly give 
|you many options for that they could be used for in the real world.  I'd 
|love to start compiling a Presets tips and tricks, listing possible uses 
|for the more esoteric mod options.  so if anyone has any ideas, post them!
|
|rEalm
|
|
|
|
|
|
|--- In xl7@yahoogroups.com, Aaron Eppolito <synthesis77@y...> wrote:
|> MIDI N   -> Quantize  +75%
|> Quantize -> Fine Pitch -6%
|> Quantize -> Pitch     -50%
|> MIDI N   -> AmpVol    -30%
|> MIDI N   -> FiltFreq -100%
|> 
|> [snip]
|> 
|> Quantize -> Gain4X   +100%
|> Quantize -> Lag0In   +100%
|> Lag0     -> Abs      -100%
|> Abs      -> FiltFreq +100%
|
|Cool cords to try!!!  This may inspire others to try their own!
|
|
|
|
|
| 
|Yahoo! Groups Links
|
|
|
| 
|
|
|
|
|
|
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|to which it is addressed and may contain confidential and/or legally 
|privileged material. Delivery of this message to any person other than 
|the intended recipient(s) is not intended in any way to waive privilege 
|or confidentiality. Any review, retransmission, dissemination or other 
|use of, or taking of any action in reliance upon, this information by 
|entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. If you 
|receive this in error, please contact the sender and delete the 
|material from any computer.
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Re: [xl7] Re: How do I make my bass line "drop"??

2004-03-25 by Aaron Eppolito

--- erik_magrini@... wrote:
> Do you think you could explain your thought process behind using
> each one of those modulation options?

Sure.  I'm doing this off the top of my head so I apologize if I'm not
right with something here.

MIDI N   -> Quantize  +75%
--------------------------
Quantize divides the input signal into ~16 parts at 98% input.  For
example, given these inputs, you'll get this output:
0-7 in   - 0 out
8-15 in  - 8 out
16-31 in - 16 out
etc.

Since we wanted (or at least I wanted) an octave drop, I set it to 75%
(16 steps times 75% = 12 steps).  I'm actually oversimplifying here
(it's actually 17 steps, and you want 13, but it rounds up...) but
trial and error gives the right value.  Hook it up to something and
count the steps.

Quantize -> Fine Pitch -6%
Quantize -> Pitch     -50%
--------------------------
Now that we have a stair step input signal in response to the
continuous input, we can route that to pitch.  Normally to get an
octave on the XL-7, you would route the controller to Pitch at 38% and
FinePitch at 6%.  Yeah, I know, why the previous engineers didn't
choose a round number (like 50% to Pitch = one octave) I don't know,
but that's the way it goes.  Anyway, 50% here gives us an octave
because we already multiplied the input by 75% (hey, whatdya know, 75%
* 50% = ~%38) so we route the quantize to Pitch and Fine Pitch (now
that I think of it, that 6% probably isn't right in this context).

MIDI N   -> AmpVol    -30%
MIDI N   -> FiltFreq -100%
--------------------------
These two cords simply drop off the volume and Fc as the drop
progresses.  This is just to model how a bass guitar loses volume and
more so brightness when you loose clean contact with a fret.  (fingers
absorb high frequencies much more than frets do).

Now for the hard stuff:
I just realized I wrote this up wrong.  The following cords are what I
had in my XL-7, the ones I posted in the previous post are not.
Quantize -> Gain4X   +100%
Quantize -> Lag0In   +100%
Lag0     -> Gain4X   -100%
Gain4X   -> Abs      +100%
Abs      -> FiltFreq +100%


So anyway, here's a breakdown of what this chunk of cords does.
Quantize -> Gain4X   +100%
Quantize -> Lag0In   +100%
Lag0     -> Gain4X   -100%
--------------------------
This creates an approximate differentiator.  For those who didn't do so
hot in Calculus (like me; calc kicked my ass) a differentiator creates
a signal that is proportionate to how quick the input signal changes. 
For a real world example, Acceleration is the derivative of Speed, i.e.
acceleration is big when you start increasing your speed quickly.

By subtracting a lagged quantity from the original quantity, you get an
approximation of how quick you're changing.  In our case, since we have
a stairstep input (by virtue of the quantizer) each step has a huge
acceleration giving us an impulse at each step.  Differentiators are
*very* useful in synths.  Try using one to increase chorus when
changing pitch to get a symphonic type sound.

Gain4X   -> Abs      +100%
--------------------------
Since the differentiator produces signed output (positive when the
steps go up, negative when the steps go down) I'm running it through an
absolute value so that no matter whether you're sliding up the
fretboard or down the fretboard, the pulse is positive.

Abs      -> FiltFreq +100%
--------------------------
And finally, do something with the differentiated signal.  The above
cord "pokes" Fc at each fret.  It's not terribly exciting.  Better
would be to copy all these cords to a duplicate layer with a buzzy
sound and target AmpVol to increase the level.

Okay, that's my synth lesson for the day.  Your assignment?  Go program
something!  Enjoy the fact that your ROMpler is more of a synth than
some VAs!  =)

-Aaron

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RE: [xl7] Re: How do I make my bass line "drop"??

2004-03-25 by Stu

Oops, forgot to write my message before sending...

Anyway, I was gonna ask which is the slap bass preset on the PX-7 rom? I
recently swapped my mo phatt rom for a px-7 rom, and have struggled to find
a decent bass guitar preset to replace the one I was using on some of my
patterns.

Thanks,

Stu

|-----Original Message-----
|From: erik_magrini@... [mailto:erik_magrini@...]
|Sent: 25 March 2004 12:58
|To: xl7@yahoogroups.com
|Subject: Re: [xl7] Re: How do I make my bass line "drop"??
|
|
|Yeah, I did this one last night too, and with a slap bass patch from the
|PX-7 ROM, it sounds very realistic too.  Nice one Aaron!
|
|Do you think you could explain your thought process behind using each one
|of those modulation options?  I know that they can be confusing to some,
|and while the manual tells you what they CAN do, it doesn't raelly give
|you many options for that they could be used for in the real world.  I'd
|love to start compiling a Presets tips and tricks, listing possible uses
|for the more esoteric mod options.  so if anyone has any ideas, post them!
|
|rEalm
|
|
|
|
|
|
|--- In xl7@yahoogroups.com, Aaron Eppolito <synthesis77@y...> wrote:
|> MIDI N   -> Quantize  +75%
|> Quantize -> Fine Pitch -6%
|> Quantize -> Pitch     -50%
|> MIDI N   -> AmpVol    -30%
|> MIDI N   -> FiltFreq -100%
|>
|> [snip]
|>
|> Quantize -> Gain4X   +100%
|> Quantize -> Lag0In   +100%
|> Lag0     -> Abs      -100%
|> Abs      -> FiltFreq +100%
|
|Cool cords to try!!!  This may inspire others to try their own!
|
|
|
|
|
|
|Yahoo! Groups Links
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
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|The information transmitted is intended only for the person(s)or entity
|to which it is addressed and may contain confidential and/or legally
|privileged material. Delivery of this message to any person other than
|the intended recipient(s) is not intended in any way to waive privilege
|or confidentiality. Any review, retransmission, dissemination or other
|use of, or taking of any action in reliance upon, this information by
|entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. If you
|receive this in error, please contact the sender and delete the
|material from any computer.
|
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Re: [xl7] Re: How do I make my bass line "drop"??

2004-03-25 by erik_magrini@Baxter.com

Huge, huge thanks man!

rEalm





"Aaron Eppolito" <synthesis77@...>
03/25/2004 12:20 PM
Please respond to xl7

 
        To:     xl7@yahoogroups.com
        cc: 
        Subject:        Re: [xl7] Re: How do I make my bass line "drop"??


--- erik_magrini@... wrote:
> Do you think you could explain your thought process behind using
> each one of those modulation options?

Sure.  I'm doing this off the top of my head so I apologize if I'm not
right with something here.

MIDI N   -> Quantize  +75%
--------------------------
Quantize divides the input signal into ~16 parts at 98% input.  For
example, given these inputs, you'll get this output:
0-7 in   - 0 out
8-15 in  - 8 out
16-31 in - 16 out
etc.

Since we wanted (or at least I wanted) an octave drop, I set it to 75%
(16 steps times 75% = 12 steps).  I'm actually oversimplifying here
(it's actually 17 steps, and you want 13, but it rounds up...) but
trial and error gives the right value.  Hook it up to something and
count the steps.

Quantize -> Fine Pitch -6%
Quantize -> Pitch     -50%
--------------------------
Now that we have a stair step input signal in response to the
continuous input, we can route that to pitch.  Normally to get an
octave on the XL-7, you would route the controller to Pitch at 38% and
FinePitch at 6%.  Yeah, I know, why the previous engineers didn't
choose a round number (like 50% to Pitch = one octave) I don't know,
but that's the way it goes.  Anyway, 50% here gives us an octave
because we already multiplied the input by 75% (hey, whatdya know, 75%
* 50% = ~%38) so we route the quantize to Pitch and Fine Pitch (now
that I think of it, that 6% probably isn't right in this context).

MIDI N   -> AmpVol    -30%
MIDI N   -> FiltFreq -100%
--------------------------
These two cords simply drop off the volume and Fc as the drop
progresses.  This is just to model how a bass guitar loses volume and
more so brightness when you loose clean contact with a fret.  (fingers
absorb high frequencies much more than frets do).

Now for the hard stuff:
I just realized I wrote this up wrong.  The following cords are what I
had in my XL-7, the ones I posted in the previous post are not.
Quantize -> Gain4X   +100%
Quantize -> Lag0In   +100%
Lag0     -> Gain4X   -100%
Gain4X   -> Abs      +100%
Abs      -> FiltFreq +100%


So anyway, here's a breakdown of what this chunk of cords does.
Quantize -> Gain4X   +100%
Quantize -> Lag0In   +100%
Lag0     -> Gain4X   -100%
--------------------------
This creates an approximate differentiator.  For those who didn't do so
hot in Calculus (like me; calc kicked my ass) a differentiator creates
a signal that is proportionate to how quick the input signal changes. 
For a real world example, Acceleration is the derivative of Speed, i.e.
acceleration is big when you start increasing your speed quickly.

By subtracting a lagged quantity from the original quantity, you get an
approximation of how quick you're changing.  In our case, since we have
a stairstep input (by virtue of the quantizer) each step has a huge
acceleration giving us an impulse at each step.  Differentiators are
*very* useful in synths.  Try using one to increase chorus when
changing pitch to get a symphonic type sound.

Gain4X   -> Abs      +100%
--------------------------
Since the differentiator produces signed output (positive when the
steps go up, negative when the steps go down) I'm running it through an
absolute value so that no matter whether you're sliding up the
fretboard or down the fretboard, the pulse is positive.

Abs      -> FiltFreq +100%
--------------------------
And finally, do something with the differentiated signal.  The above
cord "pokes" Fc at each fret.  It's not terribly exciting.  Better
would be to copy all these cords to a duplicate layer with a buzzy
sound and target AmpVol to increase the level.

Okay, that's my synth lesson for the day.  Your assignment?  Go program
something!  Enjoy the fact that your ROMpler is more of a synth than
some VAs!  =)

-Aaron

__________________________________
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Re: [xl7] Re: How do I make my bass line "drop"??

2004-03-25 by erik_magrini@Baxter.com

MIDI N   -> Quantize  +75%
--------------------------
Quantize divides the input signal into ~16 parts at 98% input.  For
example, given these inputs, you'll get this output:
0-7 in   - 0 out
8-15 in  - 8 out
16-31 in - 16 out
etc.

>>>Wait a second, you lost me.  If quantize outputs a 16 part signal for 
98% input, then how can a 16-31 input value provide the same thing? <<<<

Now that we have a stair step input signal in response to the
continuous input, we can route that to pitch.  Normally to get an
octave on the XL-7, you would route the controller to Pitch at 38% and
FinePitch at 6%. 

>>>>Interesting, the manual only states that the pitch should be 38%, 
doesn't mention anything about fine pitch too. <<<<

Yeah, I know, why the previous engineers didn'tchoose a round number (like 
50% to Pitch = one octave) I don't know,
but that's the way it goes. 

>>>Something I've always wondered! Don't make it easy like 24 or 12, no 
no, make it something odd like 38! :) <<<

Now for the hard stuff:
I just realized I wrote this up wrong.  The following cords are what I had 
in my XL-7, the ones I posted in the previous post are not.

>>>You're fired! <<<

So anyway, here's a breakdown of what this chunk of cords does.
Quantize -> Gain4X   +100%
Quantize -> Lag0In   +100%
Lag0     -> Gain4X   -100%
--------------------------
This creates an approximate differentiator.  For those who didn't do so 
hot in Calculus (like me; calc kicked my ass) a differentiator creates a 
signal that is proportionate to how quick the input signal changes. 

>>>So what does the Gain4x do to the Quantize amount(you first cord 
above), turn it into 64 discrete steps? This almost looks like recursive 
modulation to me....<><<

Try using one to increase chorus when changing pitch to get a symphonic 
type sound.

>>>Care to draw it out?  Sorry, the above example is still a little fuzzy 
to me. <<<

Go program something!  Enjoy the fact that your ROMpler is more of a synth 
than some VAs!  =)

>>>Thanks man, it's examples of the more out there modulation options that 
help me to grasp what they can do.  BTW, how the hell did you come up with 
this stuff, did tehy send you to an Emu synth programming school? :) To 
think paying attention in calc could have actually helped me be a better 
synthesist!  Doh!<<<

rEalm


 





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Re: [xl7] Re: How do I make my bass line "drop"??

2004-03-26 by Mark

Awesome thread! Thanks.
Mark
--- erik_magrini@... wrote:
> Huge, huge thanks man!
> 
> rEalm
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> "Aaron Eppolito" <synthesis77@...>
> 03/25/2004 12:20 PM
> Please respond to xl7
> 
>  
>         To:     xl7@yahoogroups.com
>         cc: 
>         Subject:        Re: [xl7] Re: How do I make
> my bass line "drop"??
> 
> 
> --- erik_magrini@... wrote:
> > Do you think you could explain your thought
> process behind using
> > each one of those modulation options?
> 
> Sure.  I'm doing this off the top of my head so I
> apologize if I'm not
> right with something here.
> 
> MIDI N   -> Quantize  +75%
> --------------------------
> Quantize divides the input signal into ~16 parts at
> 98% input.  For
> example, given these inputs, you'll get this output:
> 0-7 in   - 0 out
> 8-15 in  - 8 out
> 16-31 in - 16 out
> etc.
> 
> Since we wanted (or at least I wanted) an octave
> drop, I set it to 75%
> (16 steps times 75% = 12 steps).  I'm actually
> oversimplifying here
> (it's actually 17 steps, and you want 13, but it
> rounds up...) but
> trial and error gives the right value.  Hook it up
> to something and
> count the steps.
> 
> Quantize -> Fine Pitch -6%
> Quantize -> Pitch     -50%
> --------------------------
> Now that we have a stair step input signal in
> response to the
> continuous input, we can route that to pitch. 
> Normally to get an
> octave on the XL-7, you would route the controller
> to Pitch at 38% and
> FinePitch at 6%.  Yeah, I know, why the previous
> engineers didn't
> choose a round number (like 50% to Pitch = one
> octave) I don't know,
> but that's the way it goes.  Anyway, 50% here gives
> us an octave
> because we already multiplied the input by 75% (hey,
> whatdya know, 75%
> * 50% = ~%38) so we route the quantize to Pitch and
> Fine Pitch (now
> that I think of it, that 6% probably isn't right in
> this context).
> 
> MIDI N   -> AmpVol    -30%
> MIDI N   -> FiltFreq -100%
> --------------------------
> These two cords simply drop off the volume and Fc as
> the drop
> progresses.  This is just to model how a bass guitar
> loses volume and
> more so brightness when you loose clean contact with
> a fret.  (fingers
> absorb high frequencies much more than frets do).
> 
> Now for the hard stuff:
> I just realized I wrote this up wrong.  The
> following cords are what I
> had in my XL-7, the ones I posted in the previous
> post are not.
> Quantize -> Gain4X   +100%
> Quantize -> Lag0In   +100%
> Lag0     -> Gain4X   -100%
> Gain4X   -> Abs      +100%
> Abs      -> FiltFreq +100%
> 
> 
> So anyway, here's a breakdown of what this chunk of
> cords does.
> Quantize -> Gain4X   +100%
> Quantize -> Lag0In   +100%
> Lag0     -> Gain4X   -100%
> --------------------------
> This creates an approximate differentiator.  For
> those who didn't do so
> hot in Calculus (like me; calc kicked my ass) a
> differentiator creates
> a signal that is proportionate to how quick the
> input signal changes. 
> For a real world example, Acceleration is the
> derivative of Speed, i.e.
> acceleration is big when you start increasing your
> speed quickly.
> 
> By subtracting a lagged quantity from the original
> quantity, you get an
> approximation of how quick you're changing.  In our
> case, since we have
> a stairstep input (by virtue of the quantizer) each
> step has a huge
> acceleration giving us an impulse at each step. 
> Differentiators are
> *very* useful in synths.  Try using one to increase
> chorus when
> changing pitch to get a symphonic type sound.
> 
> Gain4X   -> Abs      +100%
> --------------------------
> Since the differentiator produces signed output
> (positive when the
> steps go up, negative when the steps go down) I'm
> running it through an
> absolute value so that no matter whether you're
> sliding up the
> fretboard or down the fretboard, the pulse is
> positive.
> 
> Abs      -> FiltFreq +100%
> --------------------------
> And finally, do something with the differentiated
> signal.  The above
> cord "pokes" Fc at each fret.  It's not terribly
> exciting.  Better
> would be to copy all these cords to a duplicate
> layer with a buzzy
> sound and target AmpVol to increase the level.
> 
> Okay, that's my synth lesson for the day.  Your
> assignment?  Go program
> something!  Enjoy the fact that your ROMpler is more
> of a synth than
> some VAs!  =)
> 
> -Aaron
> 
> __________________________________
> Do you Yahoo!?
> Yahoo! Finance Tax Center - File online. File on
> time.
> http://taxes.yahoo.com/filing.html
> 
> 
> 
>  
> Yahoo! Groups Links
> 
> 
> 
>  
> 
> 
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> person(s)or entity 
> to which it is addressed and may contain
> confidential and/or legally 
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Re: [xl7] Re: How do I make my bass line "drop"??

2004-03-26 by Aaron Eppolito

--- erik_magrini@... wrote:
> Wait a second, you lost me.  If quantize outputs a 16 part signal
> for 98% input, then how can a 16-31 input value provide the same
thing?

Divide the 128 CC values into 16 bins.  The first bin goes from 0-7,
second from 8-15, etc.  If you instead turn the amount down, you're
effectively multiplying the input CC by the percent.  Therefore, at
50%, 0-15->0, 16-31=8, ... 112-127=64.  I should have said 98% *amount*
instead of input.

> Interesting, the manual only states that the pitch should be 38%,
> doesn't mention anything about fine pitch too.

38% is close, 6% to FINE pitch is miniscule, but important if you need
dead on tuning.  Most often it won't matter.

> Quantize -> Gain4X   +100%
> Quantize -> Lag0In   +100%
> Lag0     -> Gain4X   -100%
> --------------------------
> So what does the Gain4x do to the Quantize amount(you first cord 
> above), turn it into 64 discrete steps? This almost looks like
> recursive modulation to me....

INPUT -------------->  100% -----> OUTPUT
       \---> LAG ---> -100% --/

The gain is just something to sum to.  It also has the nice effect of
amplifying the derivative signal so as to make it more noticeable. 
Quantize is simply the input.  It goes both to the output AND through
the LAG (inverted) to the OUTPUT (which is Gain4X in this case).

> Try using one to increase chorus when changing pitch to get a
> symphonic type sound.
> >>>Care to draw it out?  Sorry, the above example is still a little
> fuzzy to me. <<<

Use the same diagram as above.  INPUT would be pitch wheel.  OUTPUT
would still be Gain4X (cuz you need signal gain, the differentiator
output is not very hot).  Still use the Abs to make it always positive.
 Then route it to Chorus amount. (note that you have to have chorus set
to 1 in its page so as to enable it)

PtchWhl -> Gain4X +100%
PtchWhl -> Lag0In +100% 
Lag0    -> Gain4X -100%
Gain4X  -> Abs    +100%
Abs     -> Chorus +100%

-Aaron

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Re: [xl7] Re: How do I make my bass line "drop"??

2004-03-29 by erik_magrini@Baxter.com

Divide the 128 CC values into 16 bins.  The first bin goes from 0-7,
second from 8-15, etc.  If you instead turn the amount down, you're
effectively multiplying the input CC by the percent.  Therefore, at
50%, 0-15->0, 16-31=8, ... 112-127=64.  I should have said 98% *amount*
instead of input.

>>>OK, I got you now, misread what you typed. <<<

Use the same diagram as above.  INPUT would be pitch wheel.  OUTPUT would 
still be Gain4X (cuz you need signal gain, the differentiator output is 
not very hot).  Still use the Abs to make it always positive.  Then route 
it to Chorus amount. (note that you have to have chorus set to 1 in its 
page so as to enable it)

PtchWhl -> Gain4X +100%
PtchWhl -> Lag0In +100% 
Lag0    -> Gain4X -100%
Gain4X  -> Abs    +100%
Abs     -> Chorus +100%

>>>Thanks again Aaron! <<<

rEalm






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Re: How do I make my bass line "drop"??

2004-04-01 by scoot2500

So I'm just wondering - will this work on the P2500, and which knob 
would you use to activate this.  Base slide is a good thing ;-)

Regards ... frustrated guitarist - should have been synth player, 
Peter

--- In xl7@yahoogroups.com, "steve_the_composer" <smw-mail@p...> 
wrote:
> --- In xl7@yahoogroups.com, Aaron Eppolito <synthesis77@y...> wrote:
> > MIDI N   -> Quantize  +75%
> > Quantize -> Fine Pitch -6%
> > Quantize -> Pitch     -50%
> > MIDI N   -> AmpVol    -30%
> > MIDI N   -> FiltFreq -100%
> > 
> > [snip]
> > 
> > Quantize -> Gain4X   +100%
> > Quantize -> Lag0In   +100%
> > Lag0     -> Abs      -100%
> > Abs      -> FiltFreq +100%
> 
> Cool cords to try!!!  This may inspire others to try their own!

Re: [xl7] Re: How do I make my bass line "drop"??

2004-04-02 by Aaron Eppolito

Yep.  It'll work on any E-mu product with patchcords.  Use whatever
knob/controller you want.  Simply disconnect it from other stuff or
find an unused one.

-Aaron

--- scoot2500 <gill_peter@...> wrote:
> So I'm just wondering - will this work on the P2500, and which knob 
> would you use to activate this.  Base slide is a good thing ;-)

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Re: [xl7] Re: How do I make my bass line "drop"??

2004-04-02 by Aaron Eppolito

Yep.  It'll work on any E-mu product with patchcords.  Use whatever
knob/controller you want.  Simply disconnect it from other stuff or
find an unused one.

-Aaron

--- scoot2500 <gill_peter@...> wrote:
> So I'm just wondering - will this work on the P2500, and which knob 
> would you use to activate this.  Base slide is a good thing ;-)

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