Emu XL-7 & MP-7 User's Group

I've attached the original German version of my posting to assure 
that I haven't translated something wrong. Perhaps someone of you can 
understand German.



Hi everyone,

you know, I always wonder, why there are so few mp3s, that are made 
exclusively from the XL-7. And a big part of the existing mp3s for 
that are rather experiments than real, complete songs. I've listend 
to rEalm's mp3: "rEalm__Transistions_Live_PA.mp3", and I'm completley 
amazed about that quality. Great sounds, good effects. But, 
unfortunately, it's not my music style. I rather tend to progressive 
trance and chill-out, how the German group "Schiller" does that. Why 
are there no _complete_ progressive-trance-mp3-mixes, which are 
exclusively made with the XL-7??? Why not? Why doesn't exist 
something like "Osteen__TussinSpace_2.mp3" only made with the XL-7? 
No one can tell me, that there are so few people working with the XL-
7. Or many are working with it, but don't want to give away their 
songs because they fear any imitations or such things.

My problem is that I own such a XL-7 and like to make music with it. 
Of course, progressive trance and Schiller-chill.out. But, I don't 
have any ideas how. I don't have time or pleasure, to learn the 
complete harmonic-theory or to visit a music-school. In the internet 
I already have found some documents about that, and I read over them 
rapidly. I notice what's a rhythm, and notice, if notes sounds wrong. 
EVERY TIME, when I ask, how I should start making a trance-song, I'm 
always told that I should listen to songs I like ever and ever again, 
and imitate them. Great suggestion. How should I do that? I even 
can't manage the find out the notes for a simple arpeggio or lead-
pattern out off such songs. I even can't get a groovy kick-hihat-
pattern together, that sounds professional. Why are there no midi-
files for real, professional Trance-Songs? The componosts must save 
their works somewhere. But, it has something to do with that they 
don't want that someone steals their ideas. Good, ok, I understand 
that. But why is there no step-by-step-tutorial, how to build a 
complete trance-piece from scratch? There's simply no one. For every 
other shit, there is somewhere a tutorial, but not for such things.

If someone tells me now, I should take "Magix Music Maker" and become 
happy, I'm going mad. Why does nobody want to help? Why only the 
response: "Listen to your favourite songs and imitate them"?

People, please, don't let my die dumb...


Thanks and cheers,
Uri

BTW.: I hate soft-synths and FruityLoops!

----------------------------------------------------------------------
----------------------------------------------------------------------

Hi zusammen,

wisst Ihr, ich habe mich immer gefragt, wieso es so wenige MP3s gibt, 
die ausschließlich aus der XL-7 stammen. Und von den MP3s, die es 
dafür gibt, sind ein Großteil eher Experimente statt richtige, 
fertige Songs. Ich habe mir von rEalm sein MP3-Mix: -
"rEalm__Transitions_Live_PA.mp3" angehört, und bin restlos von 
dessen Qualität begeistert. Astreine Sounds, gute Effekte. Leider 
nicht mein Musikstil. Ich tendiere eher zu Progressive Trance und 
Chill-Out, so wie es die Deutsche Gruppe "Schiller" macht. Warum gibt 
es keine _kompletten_ Progressive-Trance-MP3-Mixes, welche aus einer 
XL-7 stammen??? Warum nicht? Warum gibt es nicht sowas 
wie "Osteen__TussinSpace_2.mp3" nur von der XL-7? Es kann mir keiner 
erzählen, dass nur sowenige Leute mit der XL-7 arbeiten. 
Oder viele arbeiten doch damit und wollen nur nicht deren Songs 
rausgeben, aus Angst vor Nachmachern oder so.

Mein Problem ist, dass ich selber solch eine XL-7 besitze und gerne 
damit Musik machen möchte. Natürlich Progressive Trance und
Schiller-Chill-Out. Nur habe ich null Ahnung wie. Ich habe wirklich 
keine Zeit und Lust, mich komplett in die Harmonielehre einzulesen 
oder 'ne Musikschule zu besuchen. Im Internet habe ich bereits in 
einige Texte darüber gefunden und überflogen. Ich merke, was
ein 
Rhythmus ist, und merke, wenn Noten falsch klingen. JEDESMAL, wenn 
ich frage, wie ich anfangen soll, ein Trance-Stück zu machen, wird 
immer gesagt, dass ich Songs, die gut finde immer wieder anhören 
soll, und dann diesen Song nachmachen soll. Toller Vorschlag. Wie 
soll ich das machen? Ich kriege ja noch nicht mal die Noten für
einen 
einfachen Arpeggio oder Lead-Pattern aus solchen Songs raus. Ich 
kriege noch nicht mal einen groovigen Kick-HiHat-Pattern hin, welcher 
professionell klingt. Warum gibt es für richtig professionelle
Trance- Songs keine MIDI-Dateien? 
Die Komponisten müssen doch ihre Arbeiten auch irgendwie
speichern. Aber das hat bestimmt damit was zu tun, dass sie nicht 
möchten, dass jemand deren Ideen klaut. Gut, ok, das verstehe ich. 
Aber wieso gibt es dann kein Schritt-für-Schritt-Tutorial, wie man 
ein komplettes Trance-Stück von Anfang an zusammenbastelt? Gibt's 
einfach nicht. Für jeden anderen Scheiß gibt es irgendein
Tutorial, nur für sowas nicht.

Wenn jetzt noch einer ankommt, und mir sagt, ich solle "Magix Music 
Maker" nehmen und glücklich werden, dann raste ich aus. Warum will
da niemand helfen? 

Warum nur die Antwort: "Höre Dir Deine Lieblingsstücke an und
mache die nach"?

Leute, lasst mich bitte nicht dumm sterben...


Danke und Gruß,
Uri

PS.: Ich hasse Softsynths und FruityLoops!

----------------------------------------------------------------------
----------------------------------------------------------------------

It sounds like your trying to make music without wanting to learn the
fundamentals. If you want to make music you need to at least learn the
basics. Once you learn the basics you'll be able to put together a
basic groove. I know most of the factory patterns on the XL-7 are not
your style ( I'm not sure if they're anybody's style) but they
patterns are a good starting point to learn how grooves are put together.
If you examine the patterns you'll see how the grooves are built. You
may also notice that the programmers know more than just the basics. 

--- In xl7@yahoogroups.com, "u_ri_p_ui" <u_ri_p_ui@y...> wrote:

> I've attached the original German version of my posting to assure 
> that I haven't translated something wrong. Perhaps someone of you can 
> understand German.
> 
> 
> 
> Hi everyone,
> 
> you know, I always wonder, why there are so few mp3s, that are made 
> exclusively from the XL-7. And a big part of the existing mp3s for 
> that are rather experiments than real, complete songs. I've listend 
> to rEalm's mp3: "rEalm__Transistions_Live_PA.mp3", and I'm completley 
> amazed about that quality. Great sounds, good effects. But, 
> unfortunately, it's not my music style. I rather tend to progressive 
> trance and chill-out, how the German group "Schiller" does that. Why 
> are there no _complete_ progressive-trance-mp3-mixes, which are 
> exclusively made with the XL-7??? Why not? Why doesn't exist 
> something like "Osteen__TussinSpace_2.mp3" only made with the XL-7? 
> No one can tell me, that there are so few people working with the XL-
> 7. Or many are working with it, but don't want to give away their 
> songs because they fear any imitations or such things.
> 
> My problem is that I own such a XL-7 and like to make music with it. 
> Of course, progressive trance and Schiller-chill.out. But, I don't 
> have any ideas how. I don't have time or pleasure, to learn the 
> complete harmonic-theory or to visit a music-school. In the internet 
> I already have found some documents about that, and I read over them 
> rapidly. I notice what's a rhythm, and notice, if notes sounds wrong. 
> EVERY TIME, when I ask, how I should start making a trance-song, I'm 
> always told that I should listen to songs I like ever and ever again, 
> and imitate them. Great suggestion. How should I do that? I even 
> can't manage the find out the notes for a simple arpeggio or lead-
> pattern out off such songs. I even can't get a groovy kick-hihat-
> pattern together, that sounds professional. Why are there no midi-
> files for real, professional Trance-Songs? The componosts must save 
> their works somewhere. But, it has something to do with that they 
> don't want that someone steals their ideas. Good, ok, I understand 
> that. But why is there no step-by-step-tutorial, how to build a 
> complete trance-piece from scratch? There's simply no one. For every 
> other shit, there is somewhere a tutorial, but not for such things.
> 
> If someone tells me now, I should take "Magix Music Maker" and become 
> happy, I'm going mad. Why does nobody want to help? Why only the 
> response: "Listen to your favourite songs and imitate them"?
> 
> People, please, don't let my die dumb...
> 
> 
> Thanks and cheers,
> Uri
> 
> BTW.: I hate soft-synths and FruityLoops!
> 
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> 
> Hi zusammen,
> 
> wisst Ihr, ich habe mich immer gefragt, wieso es so wenige MP3s gibt, 
> die ausschließlich aus der XL-7 stammen. Und von den MP3s, die es 
> dafür gibt, sind ein Großteil eher Experimente statt richtige, 
> fertige Songs. Ich habe mir von rEalm sein MP3-Mix: -
> "rEalm__Transitions_Live_PA.mp3" angehört, und bin restlos von 
> dessen Qualität begeistert. Astreine Sounds, gute Effekte. Leider 
> nicht mein Musikstil. Ich tendiere eher zu Progressive Trance und 
> Chill-Out, so wie es die Deutsche Gruppe "Schiller" macht. Warum gibt 
> es keine _kompletten_ Progressive-Trance-MP3-Mixes, welche aus einer 
> XL-7 stammen??? Warum nicht? Warum gibt es nicht sowas 
> wie "Osteen__TussinSpace_2.mp3" nur von der XL-7? Es kann mir keiner 
> erzählen, dass nur sowenige Leute mit der XL-7 arbeiten. 
> Oder viele arbeiten doch damit und wollen nur nicht deren Songs 
> rausgeben, aus Angst vor Nachmachern oder so.
> 
> Mein Problem ist, dass ich selber solch eine XL-7 besitze und gerne 
> damit Musik machen möchte. Natürlich Progressive Trance und
> Schiller-Chill-Out. Nur habe ich null Ahnung wie. Ich habe wirklich 
> keine Zeit und Lust, mich komplett in die Harmonielehre einzulesen 
> oder 'ne Musikschule zu besuchen. Im Internet habe ich bereits in 
> einige Texte darüber gefunden und überflogen. Ich merke, was
> ein 
> Rhythmus ist, und merke, wenn Noten falsch klingen. JEDESMAL, wenn 
> ich frage, wie ich anfangen soll, ein Trance-Stück zu machen, wird 
> immer gesagt, dass ich Songs, die gut finde immer wieder anhören 
> soll, und dann diesen Song nachmachen soll. Toller Vorschlag. Wie 
> soll ich das machen? Ich kriege ja noch nicht mal die Noten für
> einen 
> einfachen Arpeggio oder Lead-Pattern aus solchen Songs raus. Ich 
> kriege noch nicht mal einen groovigen Kick-HiHat-Pattern hin, welcher 
> professionell klingt. Warum gibt es für richtig professionelle
> Trance- Songs keine MIDI-Dateien? 
> Die Komponisten müssen doch ihre Arbeiten auch irgendwie
> speichern. Aber das hat bestimmt damit was zu tun, dass sie nicht 
> möchten, dass jemand deren Ideen klaut. Gut, ok, das verstehe ich. 
> Aber wieso gibt es dann kein Schritt-für-Schritt-Tutorial, wie man 
> ein komplettes Trance-Stück von Anfang an zusammenbastelt? Gibt's 
> einfach nicht. Für jeden anderen Scheiß gibt es irgendein
> Tutorial, nur für sowas nicht.
> 
> Wenn jetzt noch einer ankommt, und mir sagt, ich solle "Magix Music 
> Maker" nehmen und glücklich werden, dann raste ich aus. Warum will
> da niemand helfen? 
> 
> Warum nur die Antwort: "Höre Dir Deine Lieblingsstücke an und
> mache die nach"?
> 
> Leute, lasst mich bitte nicht dumm sterben...
> 
> 
> Danke und Gruß,
> Uri
> 
> PS.: Ich hasse Softsynths und FruityLoops!
> 
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------

To further add to this advice:

If you do not understand *any* music theory, then you must simply begin to learn it by either getting a keyboard and taking some piano lessons at a beginner level, or getting some other instrument, like guitar, and also taking lessons on a beginner's level. Once you do this for a while, you may start to see the light and be able to begin to learn songs that you like on your own and to compose them too.

First things first. You have to learn to walk before you can run.

  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: bluetechnics 
  To: xl7@yahoogroups.com 
  Sent: Tuesday, February 10, 2004 7:53 PM
  Subject: [xl7] Re: Dumb man wants to make trance music...


  It sounds like your trying to make music without wanting to learn the
  fundamentals. If you want to make music you need to at least learn the
  basics. Once you learn the basics you'll be able to put together a
  basic groove. I know most of the factory patterns on the XL-7 are not
  your style ( I'm not sure if they're anybody's style) but they
  patterns are a good starting point to learn how grooves are put together.
  If you examine the patterns you'll see how the grooves are built. You
  may also notice that the programmers know more than just the basics. 

  --- In xl7@yahoogroups.com, "u_ri_p_ui" <u_ri_p_ui@y...> wrote:
  > I've attached the original German version of my posting to assure 
  > that I haven't translated something wrong. Perhaps someone of you can 
  > understand German.
  > 
  > 
  > 
  > Hi everyone,
  > 
  > you know, I always wonder, why there are so few mp3s, that are made 
  > exclusively from the XL-7. And a big part of the existing mp3s for 
  > that are rather experiments than real, complete songs. I've listend 
  > to rEalm's mp3: "rEalm__Transistions_Live_PA.mp3", and I'm completley 
  > amazed about that quality. Great sounds, good effects. But, 
  > unfortunately, it's not my music style. I rather tend to progressive 
  > trance and chill-out, how the German group "Schiller" does that. Why 
  > are there no _complete_ progressive-trance-mp3-mixes, which are 
  > exclusively made with the XL-7??? Why not? Why doesn't exist 
  > something like "Osteen__TussinSpace_2.mp3" only made with the XL-7? 
  > No one can tell me, that there are so few people working with the XL-
  > 7. Or many are working with it, but don't want to give away their 
  > songs because they fear any imitations or such things.
  > 
  > My problem is that I own such a XL-7 and like to make music with it. 
  > Of course, progressive trance and Schiller-chill.out. But, I don't 
  > have any ideas how. I don't have time or pleasure, to learn the 
  > complete harmonic-theory or to visit a music-school. In the internet 
  > I already have found some documents about that, and I read over them 
  > rapidly. I notice what's a rhythm, and notice, if notes sounds wrong. 
  > EVERY TIME, when I ask, how I should start making a trance-song, I'm 
  > always told that I should listen to songs I like ever and ever again, 
  > and imitate them. Great suggestion. How should I do that? I even 
  > can't manage the find out the notes for a simple arpeggio or lead-
  > pattern out off such songs. I even can't get a groovy kick-hihat-
  > pattern together, that sounds professional. Why are there no midi-
  > files for real, professional Trance-Songs? The componosts must save 
  > their works somewhere. But, it has something to do with that they 
  > don't want that someone steals their ideas. Good, ok, I understand 
  > that. But why is there no step-by-step-tutorial, how to build a 
  > complete trance-piece from scratch? There's simply no one. For every 
  > other shit, there is somewhere a tutorial, but not for such things.
  > 
  > If someone tells me now, I should take "Magix Music Maker" and become 
  > happy, I'm going mad. Why does nobody want to help? Why only the 
  > response: "Listen to your favourite songs and imitate them"?
  > 
  > People, please, don't let my die dumb...
  > 
  > 
  > Thanks and cheers,
  > Uri
  > 
  > BTW.: I hate soft-synths and FruityLoops!
  > 
  > ----------------------------------------------------------------------
  > ----------------------------------------------------------------------
  > 
  > Hi zusammen,
  > 
  > wisst Ihr, ich habe mich immer gefragt, wieso es so wenige MP3s gibt, 
  > die ausschließlich aus der XL-7 stammen. Und von den MP3s, die es 
  > dafür gibt, sind ein Großteil eher Experimente statt richtige, 
  > fertige Songs. Ich habe mir von rEalm sein MP3-Mix: -
  > "rEalm__Transitions_Live_PA.mp3" angehört, und bin restlos von 
  > dessen Qualität begeistert. Astreine Sounds, gute Effekte. Leider 
  > nicht mein Musikstil. Ich tendiere eher zu Progressive Trance und 
  > Chill-Out, so wie es die Deutsche Gruppe "Schiller" macht. Warum gibt 
  > es keine _kompletten_ Progressive-Trance-MP3-Mixes, welche aus einer 
  > XL-7 stammen??? Warum nicht? Warum gibt es nicht sowas 
  > wie "Osteen__TussinSpace_2.mp3" nur von der XL-7? Es kann mir keiner 
  > erzählen, dass nur sowenige Leute mit der XL-7 arbeiten. 
  > Oder viele arbeiten doch damit und wollen nur nicht deren Songs 
  > rausgeben, aus Angst vor Nachmachern oder so.
  > 
  > Mein Problem ist, dass ich selber solch eine XL-7 besitze und gerne 
  > damit Musik machen möchte. Natürlich Progressive Trance und
  > Schiller-Chill-Out. Nur habe ich null Ahnung wie. Ich habe wirklich 
  > keine Zeit und Lust, mich komplett in die Harmonielehre einzulesen 
  > oder 'ne Musikschule zu besuchen. Im Internet habe ich bereits in 
  > einige Texte darüber gefunden und überflogen. Ich merke, was
  > ein 
  > Rhythmus ist, und merke, wenn Noten falsch klingen. JEDESMAL, wenn 
  > ich frage, wie ich anfangen soll, ein Trance-Stück zu machen, wird 
  > immer gesagt, dass ich Songs, die gut finde immer wieder anhören 
  > soll, und dann diesen Song nachmachen soll. Toller Vorschlag. Wie 
  > soll ich das machen? Ich kriege ja noch nicht mal die Noten für
  > einen 
  > einfachen Arpeggio oder Lead-Pattern aus solchen Songs raus. Ich 
  > kriege noch nicht mal einen groovigen Kick-HiHat-Pattern hin, welcher 
  > professionell klingt. Warum gibt es für richtig professionelle
  > Trance- Songs keine MIDI-Dateien? 
  > Die Komponisten müssen doch ihre Arbeiten auch irgendwie
  > speichern. Aber das hat bestimmt damit was zu tun, dass sie nicht 
  > möchten, dass jemand deren Ideen klaut. Gut, ok, das verstehe ich. 
  > Aber wieso gibt es dann kein Schritt-für-Schritt-Tutorial, wie man 
  > ein komplettes Trance-Stück von Anfang an zusammenbastelt? Gibt's 
  > einfach nicht. Für jeden anderen Scheiß gibt es irgendein
  > Tutorial, nur für sowas nicht.
  > 
  > Wenn jetzt noch einer ankommt, und mir sagt, ich solle "Magix Music 
  > Maker" nehmen und glücklich werden, dann raste ich aus. Warum will
  > da niemand helfen? 
  > 
  > Warum nur die Antwort: "Höre Dir Deine Lieblingsstücke an und
  > mache die nach"?
  > 
  > Leute, lasst mich bitte nicht dumm sterben...
  > 
  > 
  > Danke und Gruß,
  > Uri
  > 
  > PS.: Ich hasse Softsynths und FruityLoops!
  > 
  > ----------------------------------------------------------------------
  > ----------------------------------------------------------------------


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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

i dont think its nesecary to understand music in terms of harmony or musical 
teory, espacialy if we talk about electronic music, of course its nesecary 
to have ears wich can decide if to sounds go in harmony...
i agree that its nesecary to have a keyboard if you work with melodic 
instruments. if you want to use an xx7, without any musical understanding 
you have the wrong gear. you better start with some loop based software and 
libaries, then start to put some notes, basslines, pads in there to see if 
you have the right ears... if you feel like you have the talent you gonna 
know your limits and maybe then you gonna start to take some lessons to 
break them...
remember j. hendrix didnt know absolutly nothing about musical teory [he 
didnt pretend to learn playing the guitar in one day either]
i think everything is possible, its a question of talent... there are a lot 
of people making music wich do not understand anything about music teory [of 
course not all of them are good musicians, but some are]

>From: "bluetechnics" <ksellers88@...>
>Reply-To: xl7@yahoogroups.com
>To: xl7@yahoogroups.com
>Subject: [xl7] Re: Dumb man wants to make trance music...
>Date: Wed, 11 Feb 2004 00:53:53 -0000
>
>It sounds like your trying to make music without wanting to learn the
>fundamentals. If you want to make music you need to at least learn the
>basics. Once you learn the basics you'll be able to put together a
>basic groove. I know most of the factory patterns on the XL-7 are not
>your style ( I'm not sure if they're anybody's style) but they
>patterns are a good starting point to learn how grooves are put together.
>If you examine the patterns you'll see how the grooves are built. You
>may also notice that the programmers know more than just the basics.
>
>--- In xl7@yahoogroups.com, "u_ri_p_ui" <u_ri_p_ui@y...> wrote:
> > I've attached the original German version of my posting to assure
> > that I haven't translated something wrong. Perhaps someone of you can
> > understand German.
> >
> >
> >
> > Hi everyone,
> >
> > you know, I always wonder, why there are so few mp3s, that are made
> > exclusively from the XL-7. And a big part of the existing mp3s for
> > that are rather experiments than real, complete songs. I've listend
> > to rEalm's mp3: "rEalm__Transistions_Live_PA.mp3", and I'm completley
> > amazed about that quality. Great sounds, good effects. But,
> > unfortunately, it's not my music style. I rather tend to progressive
> > trance and chill-out, how the German group "Schiller" does that. Why
> > are there no _complete_ progressive-trance-mp3-mixes, which are
> > exclusively made with the XL-7??? Why not? Why doesn't exist
> > something like "Osteen__TussinSpace_2.mp3" only made with the XL-7?
> > No one can tell me, that there are so few people working with the XL-
> > 7. Or many are working with it, but don't want to give away their
> > songs because they fear any imitations or such things.
> >
> > My problem is that I own such a XL-7 and like to make music with it.
> > Of course, progressive trance and Schiller-chill.out. But, I don't
> > have any ideas how. I don't have time or pleasure, to learn the
> > complete harmonic-theory or to visit a music-school. In the internet
> > I already have found some documents about that, and I read over them
> > rapidly. I notice what's a rhythm, and notice, if notes sounds wrong.
> > EVERY TIME, when I ask, how I should start making a trance-song, I'm
> > always told that I should listen to songs I like ever and ever again,
> > and imitate them. Great suggestion. How should I do that? I even
> > can't manage the find out the notes for a simple arpeggio or lead-
> > pattern out off such songs. I even can't get a groovy kick-hihat-
> > pattern together, that sounds professional. Why are there no midi-
> > files for real, professional Trance-Songs? The componosts must save
> > their works somewhere. But, it has something to do with that they
> > don't want that someone steals their ideas. Good, ok, I understand
> > that. But why is there no step-by-step-tutorial, how to build a
> > complete trance-piece from scratch? There's simply no one. For every
> > other shit, there is somewhere a tutorial, but not for such things.
> >
> > If someone tells me now, I should take "Magix Music Maker" and become
> > happy, I'm going mad. Why does nobody want to help? Why only the
> > response: "Listen to your favourite songs and imitate them"?
> >
> > People, please, don't let my die dumb...
> >
> >
> > Thanks and cheers,
> > Uri
> >
> > BTW.: I hate soft-synths and FruityLoops!
> >
> > ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> > ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> >
> > Hi zusammen,
> >
> > wisst Ihr, ich habe mich immer gefragt, wieso es so wenige MP3s gibt,
> > die ausschlie\ufffdlich aus der XL-7 stammen. Und von den MP3s, die es
> > daf\ufffdr gibt, sind ein Gro\ufffdteil eher Experimente statt richtige,
> > fertige Songs. Ich habe mir von rEalm sein MP3-Mix: -
> > "rEalm__Transitions_Live_PA.mp3" angeh\ufffdrt, und bin restlos von
> > dessen Qualit\ufffdt begeistert. Astreine Sounds, gute Effekte. Leider
> > nicht mein Musikstil. Ich tendiere eher zu Progressive Trance und
> > Chill-Out, so wie es die Deutsche Gruppe "Schiller" macht. Warum gibt
> > es keine _kompletten_ Progressive-Trance-MP3-Mixes, welche aus einer
> > XL-7 stammen??? Warum nicht? Warum gibt es nicht sowas
> > wie "Osteen__TussinSpace_2.mp3" nur von der XL-7? Es kann mir keiner
> > erz\ufffdhlen, dass nur sowenige Leute mit der XL-7 arbeiten.
> > Oder viele arbeiten doch damit und wollen nur nicht deren Songs
> > rausgeben, aus Angst vor Nachmachern oder so.
> >
> > Mein Problem ist, dass ich selber solch eine XL-7 besitze und gerne
> > damit Musik machen m\ufffdchte. Nat\ufffdrlich Progressive Trance und
> > Schiller-Chill-Out. Nur habe ich null Ahnung wie. Ich habe wirklich
> > keine Zeit und Lust, mich komplett in die Harmonielehre einzulesen
> > oder 'ne Musikschule zu besuchen. Im Internet habe ich bereits in
> > einige Texte dar\ufffdber gefunden und \ufffdberflogen. Ich merke, was
> > ein
> > Rhythmus ist, und merke, wenn Noten falsch klingen. JEDESMAL, wenn
> > ich frage, wie ich anfangen soll, ein Trance-St\ufffdck zu machen, wird
> > immer gesagt, dass ich Songs, die gut finde immer wieder anh\ufffdren
> > soll, und dann diesen Song nachmachen soll. Toller Vorschlag. Wie
> > soll ich das machen? Ich kriege ja noch nicht mal die Noten f\ufffdr
> > einen
> > einfachen Arpeggio oder Lead-Pattern aus solchen Songs raus. Ich
> > kriege noch nicht mal einen groovigen Kick-HiHat-Pattern hin, welcher
> > professionell klingt. Warum gibt es f\ufffdr richtig professionelle
> > Trance- Songs keine MIDI-Dateien?
> > Die Komponisten m\ufffdssen doch ihre Arbeiten auch irgendwie
> > speichern. Aber das hat bestimmt damit was zu tun, dass sie nicht
> > m\ufffdchten, dass jemand deren Ideen klaut. Gut, ok, das verstehe ich.
> > Aber wieso gibt es dann kein Schritt-f\ufffdr-Schritt-Tutorial, wie man
> > ein komplettes Trance-St\ufffdck von Anfang an zusammenbastelt? Gibt's
> > einfach nicht. F\ufffdr jeden anderen Schei\ufffd gibt es irgendein
> > Tutorial, nur f\ufffdr sowas nicht.
> >
> > Wenn jetzt noch einer ankommt, und mir sagt, ich solle "Magix Music
> > Maker" nehmen und gl\ufffdcklich werden, dann raste ich aus. Warum will
> > da niemand helfen?
> >
> > Warum nur die Antwort: "H\ufffdre Dir Deine Lieblingsst\ufffdcke an und
> > mache die nach"?
> >
> > Leute, lasst mich bitte nicht dumm sterben...
> >
> >
> > Danke und Gru\ufffd,
> > Uri
> >
> > PS.: Ich hasse Softsynths und FruityLoops!
> >
> > ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> > ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>

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Amen!  Here's the analogy I use all the time:

You wouldn't expect to pick up a guitar and be Hendrix in one week would 
you?  Why would you expect that electronic music is any different?  It 
takes years of practice and study, and you have to be very dedicated. 

If it was easy (err...any easier than it already is), everyone would be 
doing it and there would be ton of crappy songs out there.  Oh wait...

rEalm



It sounds like your trying to make music without wanting to learn the
fundamentals. If you want to make music you need to at least learn the
basics. Once you learn the basics you'll be able to put together a
basic groove. 
 






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Hey man, you stole my analogy :)

rEalm




remember j. hendrix didnt know absolutly nothing about musical teory [he 
didnt pretend to learn playing the guitar in one day either]

 






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Hrmph...

I've been playing for over three years. Started with the RM1x, played 
a little with the Roland D2, experimented with FruityLoops and ended
at the XL-7. I haven't achieved any advancements. No wonder why. I
don't have any books, or haven't visited any music schools. I don't
know the basic structure of trance music, arpeggios or leads. Not to
say about percussion.

Guys, be honest, tell me that I don't have any talents, so I should
sell my gears and listen to others music than my own...


Uri

Do you have fun making music?  If so, then stay with it.  If you're only 
doing it for "achievements", you're in it for the wrong reasons.  It 
should be fun, otherwise, what's the point?  Don't judge your skills or 
abilities as they relate to others, you should only be concerned with 
doing what you want.  :)

rEalm






Guys, be honest, tell me that I don't have any talents, so I should
sell my gears and listen to others music than my own...








The information transmitted is intended only for the person(s)or entity 
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the intended recipient(s) is not intended in any way to waive privilege 
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use of, or taking of any action in reliance upon, this information by 
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>>
>Guys, be honest, tell me that I don't have any talents, so I should
>sell my gears and listen to others music than my own...
>
>
>Uri
>

i never heard anything you did.....

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...ups....  :]


>From: erik_magrini@...
>Hey man, you stole my analogy :)
>
>
>remember j. hendrix didnt know absolutly nothing about musical teory [he
>didnt pretend to learn playing the guitar in one day either]
>

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Just thought I'd throw in my 2 cents-
I started 4 yrs. ago mixing loops on my Playstation before I aquired any serious 
equipment. I found the Music Generator for the PStation quite useful for learning drum 
beats, note placement, ect.  I have no formal music training, just an apprieciation for 
music.  I'm still learning and have a long way to go.  The bottom line is that I enjoy the hell 
out of what I'm doing- even if it is frustrating (or sucks).

If you want to listen to some stuff I did a year ago, click on my yahoo profile and go to my 
briefcase.  It pretty much sucks, but I'll share it anyway.  The two tracks, Myne and Adam 
r-Ants were done on the PStation- watch the volume if you listen to  Adam r-Ants.(There's 
lots of profanity.)  The riffs used on Adam r-Ants are from an Apollo 440 song.  The Test 
Recording track was done using my RM1x along with my weak attempt at guitar. ( was 
testing my friend's digital recorder)   That was the last thing I did before getting my PX-7 
in January.

I certainly can relate to what you're saying.

Best of luck to you.
Mike


--- In xl7@yahoogroups.com, "u_ri_p_ui" <u_ri_p_ui@y...> wrote:

> Hrmph...
> 
> I've been playing for over three years. Started with the RM1x, played 
> a little with the Roland D2, experimented with FruityLoops and ended
> at the XL-7. I haven't achieved any advancements. No wonder why. I
> don't have any books, or haven't visited any music schools. I don't
> know the basic structure of trance music, arpeggios or leads. Not to
> say about percussion.
> 
> Guys, be honest, tell me that I don't have any talents, so I should
> sell my gears and listen to others music than my own...
> 
> 
> Uri

Changing the tempo, muting tracks, and changing presets on the factory
patterns is a good place to start.   

-----Original Message-----
From: u_ri_p_ui [mailto:u_ri_p_ui@...] 
Sent: Wednesday, February 11, 2004 8:44 AM
To: xl7@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [xl7] Re: Dumb man wants to make trance music...

Hrmph...

I've been playing for over three years. Started with the RM1x, played 
a little with the Roland D2, experimented with FruityLoops and ended
at the XL-7. I haven't achieved any advancements. No wonder why. I
don't have any books, or haven't visited any music schools. I don't
know the basic structure of trance music, arpeggios or leads. Not to
say about percussion.

Guys, be honest, tell me that I don't have any talents, so I should
sell my gears and listen to others music than my own...


Uri



 
Yahoo! Groups Links

My asdvice is to keep your device and add a keyboard controller of 
some kind (plan to spend about $100 to $200 for this).

Then, download the trial copy of sonic foundry Acid and the demo of 
Fruity loops. 

Also,go to your nearest music store and ask a asalesperson for a book 
on scales. This should map out each scale across a keyboard (as well 
as your pads on your XX-7) and provide you with chord variations for 
each key.


Once you have that, here is what I would do to BUILD an understanding 
of anything you are interested in.

- First (for about a week or two) Just learn how to use the basics of 
Fruity Loops. You won't be able to save, but you can still learn from 
this tool. Try playing a song you like and try to repeat the drum 
parts you hear in fruity loops. This will help you know what you are 
hearing and it will be easier to reproduce these PATTERNS on your XX-
7.

- Second, learn the basics of Sonic Foundry's (now owned by Sony) 
Acid software. You'll be able to save but only use a max of 8 tracks 
(probably other limitations too).

Download the free loops from acidplanet and from the Sony "Acid" 
software web site. You should now focus on combining rhythms and 
sounds to achieve a mix you like. Change the tempo, change the key, 
slow the tempo down and try to make the arpeggios and melodies you 
hear come out on your XX-7.

Also, you can import songs you like into acid and "play along".

The point is instant gratification for your current level of 
creativity, something to keep you inspired, rewarded and keep you 
wanting to learn more.

After you ave done all that for about 4 weeks total, get your chord 
charts and sclaess out and use your keyboard and start playing your 
original ideas. Play some chord combinations, some single note 
melodies, etc...

You should pick an idea you like or want to reproduce and make that 
your first accomplishment. Oh, and If you have a problem with speed, 
slow things down or do step recording. Need to see a rhythm before 
you program it? Use fruity. Need to really hear what is going on in 
one part of a song? put it's mp3 in acid and slow acid down until you 
can imitate it.

Learning from what others have done can be done different ways, but 
you really need to learn from others experiences (ie: music you 
like), one way or another.

Thanks for the guide, Travis. I'll look what I can get out...

Uri

* In xl7@yahoogroups.com, "mike" <mikedancy@e...> wrote:
> [...]
> If you want to listen to some stuff I did a year ago, click on my 
> yahoo profile and go to my briefcase.  It pretty much sucks, but 
> I'll share it anyway.

Thanks, Mike, but it seems that your briefcase is empty although you 
used nearly 10MB. What must I do to hear your works?


Uri

Uri, I fixed my briefcase and you should be able to access it now. Here's a link to it.

http://f1.pg.briefcase.yahoo.com/mikedancy

Mike

--- In xl7@yahoogroups.com, "u_ri_p_ui" <u_ri_p_ui@y...> wrote:

> * In xl7@yahoogroups.com, "mike" <mikedancy@e...> wrote:
> > [...]
> > If you want to listen to some stuff I did a year ago, click on my 
> > yahoo profile and go to my briefcase.  It pretty much sucks, but 
> > I'll share it anyway.
> 
> Thanks, Mike, but it seems that your briefcase is empty although you 
> used nearly 10MB. What must I do to hear your works?
> 
> 
> Uri

Just wanted you to know that I listened to Myne while sitting at the 
office and liked it.


--- In xl7@yahoogroups.com, "mike" <mikedancy@e...> wrote:
> Uri, I fixed my briefcase and you should be able to access it now. 
Here's a link to it.
> 
> http://f1.pg.briefcase.yahoo.com/mikedancy
> 
> Mike
> 
> --- In xl7@yahoogroups.com, "u_ri_p_ui" <u_ri_p_ui@y...> wrote:
> > * In xl7@yahoogroups.com, "mike" <mikedancy@e...> wrote:
> > > [...]
> > > If you want to listen to some stuff I did a year ago, click on 
my 
> > > yahoo profile and go to my briefcase.  It pretty much sucks, 
but 
> > > I'll share it anyway.
> > 
> > Thanks, Mike, but it seems that your briefcase is empty although 
you 

> > used nearly 10MB. What must I do to hear your works?
> > 
> > 
> > Uri

Great thread! Along these lines, can anyone give me an idea of song 
form for this music? What is a good structure to start with? It's a 
lot of fun bringing different parts in and out and playing licks on 
top, but I believe it's the subconsciously noticed "changes" or 
structure (specific measures or sections) that make a hit really 
work. I welcome all comments on this. I have much to 
learn.....Thanks.
Mark--- In xl7@yahoogroups.com, "critten98" <travis.crittenden@c...> 
wrote:
> My asdvice is to keep your device and add a keyboard controller of 
> some kind (plan to spend about $100 to $200 for this).
> 
> Then, download the trial copy of sonic foundry Acid and the demo 
of 
> Fruity loops. 
> 
> Also,go to your nearest music store and ask a asalesperson for a 
book 
> on scales. This should map out each scale across a keyboard (as 
well 
> as your pads on your XX-7) and provide you with chord variations 
for 
> each key.
> 
> 
> Once you have that, here is what I would do to BUILD an 
understanding 
> of anything you are interested in.
> 
> - First (for about a week or two) Just learn how to use the basics 
of 
> Fruity Loops. You won't be able to save, but you can still learn 
from 
> this tool. Try playing a song you like and try to repeat the drum 
> parts you hear in fruity loops. This will help you know what you 
are 
> hearing and it will be easier to reproduce these PATTERNS on your 
XX-
> 7.
> 
> - Second, learn the basics of Sonic Foundry's (now owned by Sony) 
> Acid software. You'll be able to save but only use a max of 8 
tracks 
> (probably other limitations too).
> 
> Download the free loops from acidplanet and from the Sony "Acid" 
> software web site. You should now focus on combining rhythms and 
> sounds to achieve a mix you like. Change the tempo, change the 
key, 
> slow the tempo down and try to make the arpeggios and melodies you 
> hear come out on your XX-7.
> 
> Also, you can import songs you like into acid and "play along".
> 
> The point is instant gratification for your current level of 
> creativity, something to keep you inspired, rewarded and keep you 
> wanting to learn more.
> 
> After you ave done all that for about 4 weeks total, get your 
chord 
> charts and sclaess out and use your keyboard and start playing 
your 
> original ideas. Play some chord combinations, some single note 
> melodies, etc...
> 
> You should pick an idea you like or want to reproduce and make 
that 
> your first accomplishment. Oh, and If you have a problem with 
speed, 
> slow things down or do step recording. Need to see a rhythm before 
> you program it? Use fruity. Need to really hear what is going on 
in 
> one part of a song? put it's mp3 in acid and slow acid down until 
you 
> can imitate it.
> 
> Learning from what others have done can be done different ways, 
but 
> you really need to learn from others experiences (ie: music you 
> like), one way or another.

Great post from another website I frequent, author unknown:

"Alright, you know how kids are always going "How do I make my mixes sound 
better?" and what not. The answer is so simple really. Just love what you 
do, study and practice.

Think about it all day, every day for years and keep learning, keep trying 
new ideas all the time.

First off you have to be creative enough to come up with a good idea and 
some people just don't have that. If you do have the ideas then you need 
to have the patience, knowledge (technical) and confidence to bring it all 
together into something that you know is good. There aren't any formulas 
for that. It takes time and effort, more of both than most people have or 
want to give. People are so quick to ask for eq frequencies and 
compression settings and what software to use and what synth is good for 
this and that. There are more than enough books and web resources that 
will give you general guidelines.

Man... this is art and people want recipes. I understand that there is 
nothing wrong with asking questions, I do it more than most. But when you 
ask for a decade's worth of knowledge and experience in one broad question 
it's obvious that you need to be more self sufficient and dig for what you 
want. Does anyone want the journey from here to there... or is it all 
about achieving everything right now?

I don't know why people think that electronic music is any different from 
drawing, writing, sculpting, etc... You don't see people on forums asking 
"How do I paint like Michelangelo?" but somehow... because you can click a 
few notes into a drum grid on a shareware program and say "Whoa I made a 
beat!" the idea that a finished product is right around the corner 
presents itself. Then people start doing stuff and in a month's time don't 
understand why their mixes aren't on wax yet. You can load a drum kit 
consisting of clean hits that are already processed to work together into 
a softsampler, spend a while learning to write basic patterns, then throw 
a sampled bassline or melody over it... and on pc speakers hear a real 
track. This is akin to doing a decent job on a paint by numbers project 
and then expecting to paint for a living. 

It's normal to be ambitious at first and you should be, but you have to 
keep things in perspective.

There is something that a lot of people forget... In dance music half of 
the art is in the mixing and engineering. It's not a science, it's taking 
theory and technique and learning it so well that it becomes 
transparent... and you start using that knowledge in a thoughtless, fluid 
way. It's the fact that you know the rules and know them well enough to 
break them in your own fashion. The guy that engineered the latest pop 
tune on the radio would probably do a rotten job at making an underground 
dance tune tear it up because that is not his passion. If you don't really 
want something it's just not gonna happen. If you do and have the knack 
for it, it will. It's just a natural progression. That has been the way 
forward since the beginning.

Nowadays it is so easy to start making music with computers... everyone 
wants instant gratification. There was a time when you had to commit 
yourself to this because you had no choice but to spend a lot of cash just 
to get started. Then you had to rely on your own ambition and creativity 
for new techniques. It seems like the attitudes have gone wrong in dance 
music. People used to take it as a joke because they thought it was easy 
to do... just computer generated, robotic beats. Now people are taking it 
seriously, trying to be producers and want it to be just that easy. I 
don't get it."

rEalm









The information transmitted is intended only for the person(s)or entity 
to which it is addressed and may contain confidential and/or legally 
privileged material. Delivery of this message to any person other than 
the intended recipient(s) is not intended in any way to waive privilege 
or confidentiality. Any review, retransmission, dissemination or other 
use of, or taking of any action in reliance upon, this information by 
entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. If you 
receive this in error, please contact the sender and delete the 
material from any computer.

For Translation:

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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

An excellent post. To futher speak to these points:

Think about an art class. Natural talent or not, just about every 
artist can benefit from formal training. The purpose of the class is 
to teach the ins and outs of art, start with specific excercises and 
challenge the student to achieve, perhaps in areas that seem 
unrelated or uninteresting at first. 

Over time the artist in the student begins to pool this experience 
together and, with new knowledge, strike out in his or her 
ownindividual direction.

Now the artist is in charge of the artist. To keep learning, to try 
new things, to honestly judge his/her accomplishments... these are 
the real goals. Commitment, bravery, experimentation and taking on 
challenges keep the artist moving forward.

Don't start off setting goals like "I want to write a hit" or "I want 
to sound like XXXXX does". Instead start off loving what you are 
trying to do and be willing to go into new directions, perhaps away 
from your initial interests that brought you to music 
theory/composition.

If you are not exposed to a style of music or trained in a specific 
way, seek that exposure and training. If you don't have knowledge of 
mixing or mastering, then get a big book on that topic and actually 
finish it. Gear changes all the time, but most,if not all, of the 
concepts you will learn will survive all the fluctuations in popular 
music styles.

Beginners must be spoonfed, experts must be reminded that no one 
knows everything. In short, all are students, even the teachers we 
look to. How open a mind and how creative your ideas are all you 
really bring to the keyboard.


--- In xl7@yahoogroups.com, erik_magrini@B... wrote:
> Great post from another website I frequent, author unknown:
> 
> "Alright, you know how kids are always going "How do I make my 
mixes sound 
> better?" and what not. The answer is so simple really. Just love 
what you 
> do, study and practice.
> 
> Think about it all day, every day for years and keep learning, keep 
trying 
> new ideas all the time.
> 
> First off you have to be creative enough to come up with a good 
idea and 
> some people just don't have that. If you do have the ideas then you 
need 
> to have the patience, knowledge (technical) and confidence to bring 
it all 
> together into something that you know is good. There aren't any 
formulas 
> for that. It takes time and effort, more of both than most people 
have or 
> want to give. People are so quick to ask for eq frequencies and 
> compression settings and what software to use and what synth is 
good for 
> this and that. There are more than enough books and web resources 
that 
> will give you general guidelines.
> 
> Man... this is art and people want recipes. I understand that there 
is 
> nothing wrong with asking questions, I do it more than most. But 
when you 
> ask for a decade's worth of knowledge and experience in one broad 
question 
> it's obvious that you need to be more self sufficient and dig for 
what you 
> want. Does anyone want the journey from here to there... or is it 
all 
> about achieving everything right now?
> 
> I don't know why people think that electronic music is any 
different from 
> drawing, writing, sculpting, etc... You don't see people on forums 
asking 
> "How do I paint like Michelangelo?" but somehow... because you can 
click a 
> few notes into a drum grid on a shareware program and say "Whoa I 
made a 
> beat!" the idea that a finished product is right around the corner 
> presents itself. Then people start doing stuff and in a month's 
time don't 
> understand why their mixes aren't on wax yet. You can load a drum 
kit 
> consisting of clean hits that are already processed to work 
together into 
> a softsampler, spend a while learning to write basic patterns, then 
throw 
> a sampled bassline or melody over it... and on pc speakers hear a 
real 
> track. This is akin to doing a decent job on a paint by numbers 
project 
> and then expecting to paint for a living. 
> 
> It's normal to be ambitious at first and you should be, but you 
have to 
> keep things in perspective.
> 
> There is something that a lot of people forget... In dance music 
half of 
> the art is in the mixing and engineering. It's not a science, it's 
taking 
> theory and technique and learning it so well that it becomes 
> transparent... and you start using that knowledge in a thoughtless, 
fluid 
> way. It's the fact that you know the rules and know them well 
enough to 
> break them in your own fashion. The guy that engineered the latest 
pop 
> tune on the radio would probably do a rotten job at making an 
underground 
> dance tune tear it up because that is not his passion. If you don't 
really 
> want something it's just not gonna happen. If you do and have the 
knack 
> for it, it will. It's just a natural progression. That has been the 
way 
> forward since the beginning.
> 
> Nowadays it is so easy to start making music with computers... 
everyone 
> wants instant gratification. There was a time when you had to 
commit 
> yourself to this because you had no choice but to spend a lot of 
cash just 
> to get started. Then you had to rely on your own ambition and 
creativity 
> for new techniques. It seems like the attitudes have gone wrong in 
dance 
> music. People used to take it as a joke because they thought it was 
easy 
> to do... just computer generated, robotic beats. Now people are 
taking it 
> seriously, trying to be producers and want it to be just that easy. 
I 
> don't get it."
> 
> rEalm
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The information transmitted is intended only for the person(s)or 
entity 
> to which it is addressed and may contain confidential and/or 
legally 
> privileged material. Delivery of this message to any person other 
than 
> the intended recipient(s) is not intended in any way to waive 
privilege 
> or confidentiality. Any review, retransmission, dissemination or 
other 
> use of, or taking of any action in reliance upon, this information 
by 

> entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. If you 
> receive this in error, please contact the sender and delete the 
> material from any computer.
> 
> For Translation:
> 
> http://www.baxter.com/email_disclaimer
> 
> 
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Most patterns in dance/pop/rock are based on intro-verse-chorus-
verse2-chorus-breakdown-(outro verse or chorus)-end or some variation 
of that.

12 bar blues is the most rigid (from a progression perspective) but 
probably the most fun to play and definitely one of the most soulful 
when done well.


But...
In terms of what makes a hit, I remember reading that someone had 
come up with a sophisticated "formula" that used complicated 
statistics, analyzed all #1 hits over the past x years and projected 
whether a new song was a hit or not.

I think that type of abuse of innocent statistics is all fine and 
good if you work as a suit in a big recording company or your an ad 
excecutive looking for the next "where's the beef" commercial.

If you appreciate music, the rules are just made to be broken. Like 
in my previous post, an artist learns a trade, but he doesn't seek to 
mimic his mentor. He seeks to be himself.

4 on the floor dance, Blues progressions, ballads, disco, and a good 
deal of pop songs seem to follow definite progressions and you should 
understand what these are and why they work. Imitate and you'll 
decode. THey are commercially successful for a reason.

But also listen extensively to classical, ambient, drum-n-bass, 
improv jazz, etc... and realize what undiscovered treasures are far 
away from those rigid lines.

-T

--- In xl7@yahoogroups.com, "sparky55red" <sparky55red@y...> wrote:
> Great thread! Along these lines, can anyone give me an idea of song 
> form for this music? What is a good structure to start with? It's a 
> lot of fun bringing different parts in and out and playing licks on 
> top, but I believe it's the subconsciously noticed "changes" or 
> structure (specific measures or sections) that make a hit really 
> work. I welcome all comments on this. I have much to 
> learn.....Thanks.
> Mark--- In xl7@yahoogroups.com, "critten98" 
<travis.crittenden@c...> 
> wrote:
> > My asdvice is to keep your device and add a keyboard controller 
of 
> > some kind (plan to spend about $100 to $200 for this).
> > 
> > Then, download the trial copy of sonic foundry Acid and the demo 
> of 
> > Fruity loops. 
> > 
> > Also,go to your nearest music store and ask a asalesperson for a 
> book 
> > on scales. This should map out each scale across a keyboard (as 
> well 
> > as your pads on your XX-7) and provide you with chord variations 
> for 
> > each key.
> > 
> > 
> > Once you have that, here is what I would do to BUILD an 
> understanding 
> > of anything you are interested in.
> > 
> > - First (for about a week or two) Just learn how to use the 
basics 
> of 
> > Fruity Loops. You won't be able to save, but you can still learn 
> from 
> > this tool. Try playing a song you like and try to repeat the drum 
> > parts you hear in fruity loops. This will help you know what you 
> are 
> > hearing and it will be easier to reproduce these PATTERNS on your 
> XX-
> > 7.
> > 
> > - Second, learn the basics of Sonic Foundry's (now owned by Sony) 
> > Acid software. You'll be able to save but only use a max of 8 
> tracks 
> > (probably other limitations too).
> > 
> > Download the free loops from acidplanet and from the Sony "Acid" 
> > software web site. You should now focus on combining rhythms and 
> > sounds to achieve a mix you like. Change the tempo, change the 
> key, 
> > slow the tempo down and try to make the arpeggios and melodies 
you 
> > hear come out on your XX-7.
> > 
> > Also, you can import songs you like into acid and "play along".
> > 
> > The point is instant gratification for your current level of 
> > creativity, something to keep you inspired, rewarded and keep you 
> > wanting to learn more.
> > 
> > After you ave done all that for about 4 weeks total, get your 
> chord 
> > charts and sclaess out and use your keyboard and start playing 
> your 
> > original ideas. Play some chord combinations, some single note 
> > melodies, etc...
> > 
> > You should pick an idea you like or want to reproduce and make 
> that 
> > your first accomplishment. Oh, and If you have a problem with 
> speed, 
> > slow things down or do step recording. Need to see a rhythm 
before 

> > you program it? Use fruity. Need to really hear what is going on 
> in 
> > one part of a song? put it's mp3 in acid and slow acid down until 
> you 
> > can imitate it.
> > 
> > Learning from what others have done can be done different ways, 
> but 
> > you really need to learn from others experiences (ie: music you 
> > like), one way or another.

Exactly. My point is: we can all spend hours and hours creating some 
great stuff just by instinctively adding and deleting tracks on 
these wonderful XX-7 tools. They do make it real easy to put 
something together and especially easy to practice often and 
anywhere. As a live sound guy, I understand well the art of the mix 
and the art of mixing to feed the live audience. What I'm trying to 
understand (since I've unfortunately ignored DJ's during breaks over 
the last 30 years) are the "rules of thunb" or whatever that makes a 
difference in the feel of a song. To take my stuff to the next level 
(and try to make up for some time) I want to hear artists describe 
their process and try to verbalize what they think makes that 
elusive difference. Sure, playing tfor the crowd takes you many 
places and there are no real rules to follow. But when I sit down 
and count-out the parts of the songs that I like and see the 
multiples of 8 bars and how things come and go, I want to know why 
the artist or the producer decided on this structure. As a keyboard 
player, I can play along with the XX-7 and it's a lot easier if the 
songs are stored rather than having everthing just under live 
control. Sorry for rambling, it's just hard to verbalize this new 
stuff. Thanks for your patience and input.
Mark



--- In xl7@yahoogroups.com, "critten98" <travis.crittenden@c...> 
wrote:

> An excellent post. To futher speak to these points:
> 
> Think about an art class. Natural talent or not, just about every 
> artist can benefit from formal training. The purpose of the class 
is 
> to teach the ins and outs of art, start with specific excercises 
and 
> challenge the student to achieve, perhaps in areas that seem 
> unrelated or uninteresting at first. 
> 
> Over time the artist in the student begins to pool this experience 
> together and, with new knowledge, strike out in his or her 
> ownindividual direction.
> 
> Now the artist is in charge of the artist. To keep learning, to 
try 

> new things, to honestly judge his/her accomplishments... these are 
> the real goals. Commitment, bravery, experimentation and taking on 
> challenges keep the artist moving forward.

I have an ongoing little series on my website about songwriting. Its 
not directed at trance or any other style in particular, but you may 
find somethings in there that will help you out. Its here:
http://www.braintransfer.org - go to the random thoughts page.
Dana
--- In xl7@yahoogroups.com, "sparky55red" <sparky55red@y...> wrote:
> Great thread! Along these lines, can anyone give me an idea of 
song 
> form for this music? What is a good structure to start with? It's 
a 
> lot of fun bringing different parts in and out and playing licks 
on 
> top, but I believe it's the subconsciously noticed "changes" or 
> structure (specific measures or sections) that make a hit really 
> work. I welcome all comments on this. I have much to 
> learn.....Thanks.
> Mark--- In xl7@yahoogroups.com, "critten98" 
<travis.crittenden@c...> 
> wrote:
> > My asdvice is to keep your device and add a keyboard controller 
of 
> > some kind (plan to spend about $100 to $200 for this).
> > 
> > Then, download the trial copy of sonic foundry Acid and the demo 
> of 
> > Fruity loops. 
> > 
> > Also,go to your nearest music store and ask a asalesperson for a 
> book 
> > on scales. This should map out each scale across a keyboard (as 
> well 
> > as your pads on your XX-7) and provide you with chord variations 
> for 
> > each key.
> > 
> > 
> > Once you have that, here is what I would do to BUILD an 
> understanding 
> > of anything you are interested in.
> > 
> > - First (for about a week or two) Just learn how to use the 
basics 
> of 
> > Fruity Loops. You won't be able to save, but you can still learn 
> from 
> > this tool. Try playing a song you like and try to repeat the 
drum 
> > parts you hear in fruity loops. This will help you know what you 
> are 
> > hearing and it will be easier to reproduce these PATTERNS on 
your 
> XX-
> > 7.
> > 
> > - Second, learn the basics of Sonic Foundry's (now owned by 
Sony) 
> > Acid software. You'll be able to save but only use a max of 8 
> tracks 
> > (probably other limitations too).
> > 
> > Download the free loops from acidplanet and from the Sony "Acid" 
> > software web site. You should now focus on combining rhythms and 
> > sounds to achieve a mix you like. Change the tempo, change the 
> key, 
> > slow the tempo down and try to make the arpeggios and melodies 
you 
> > hear come out on your XX-7.
> > 
> > Also, you can import songs you like into acid and "play along".
> > 
> > The point is instant gratification for your current level of 
> > creativity, something to keep you inspired, rewarded and keep 
you 
> > wanting to learn more.
> > 
> > After you ave done all that for about 4 weeks total, get your 
> chord 
> > charts and sclaess out and use your keyboard and start playing 
> your 
> > original ideas. Play some chord combinations, some single note 
> > melodies, etc...
> > 
> > You should pick an idea you like or want to reproduce and make 
> that 
> > your first accomplishment. Oh, and If you have a problem with 
> speed, 
> > slow things down or do step recording. Need to see a rhythm 
before 
> > you program it? Use fruity. Need to really hear what is going on 
> in 
> > one part of a song? put it's mp3 in acid and slow acid down 
until 

> you 
> > can imitate it.
> > 
> > Learning from what others have done can be done different ways, 
> but 
> > you really need to learn from others experiences (ie: music you 
> > like), one way or another.

"Now people are taking it seriously, trying to be producers and want 
it to be just that easy. I don't get it."
No shit. I teach guitar, but I stopped for years after getting an 
endless succession of dopes that thought I could teach them to play 
like Hendrix or McLoughlin or you name it in three weeks, and god 
forbid they would have to learn scales!!!!! Just ain't gonna happen. 
To me, songwriting/producing is the most intense mental work I do, 
and the most rewarding. Why in hell would you want to cut out the 
process, just to end up with some shit-generic music? Aren't you 
trying to express what YOU are feeling, not someone else?
Indeed, electronic music is no different than any other art: you 
only get back out what you put in.
OK, I'm off my soapbox now.
Dana

--- In xl7@yahoogroups.com, erik_magrini@B... wrote:
> Great post from another website I frequent, author unknown:
> 
> "Alright, you know how kids are always going "How do I make my 
mixes sound 
> better?" and what not. The answer is so simple really. Just love 
what you 
> do, study and practice.
> 
> Think about it all day, every day for years and keep learning, 
keep trying 
> new ideas all the time.
> 
> First off you have to be creative enough to come up with a good 
idea and 
> some people just don't have that. If you do have the ideas then 
you need 
> to have the patience, knowledge (technical) and confidence to 
bring it all 
> together into something that you know is good. There aren't any 
formulas 
> for that. It takes time and effort, more of both than most people 
have or 
> want to give. People are so quick to ask for eq frequencies and 
> compression settings and what software to use and what synth is 
good for 
> this and that. There are more than enough books and web resources 
that 
> will give you general guidelines.
> 
> Man... this is art and people want recipes. I understand that 
there is 
> nothing wrong with asking questions, I do it more than most. But 
when you 
> ask for a decade's worth of knowledge and experience in one broad 
question 
> it's obvious that you need to be more self sufficient and dig for 
what you 
> want. Does anyone want the journey from here to there... or is it 
all 
> about achieving everything right now?
> 
> I don't know why people think that electronic music is any 
different from 
> drawing, writing, sculpting, etc... You don't see people on forums 
asking 
> "How do I paint like Michelangelo?" but somehow... because you can 
click a 
> few notes into a drum grid on a shareware program and say "Whoa I 
made a 
> beat!" the idea that a finished product is right around the corner 
> presents itself. Then people start doing stuff and in a month's 
time don't 
> understand why their mixes aren't on wax yet. You can load a drum 
kit 
> consisting of clean hits that are already processed to work 
together into 
> a softsampler, spend a while learning to write basic patterns, 
then throw 
> a sampled bassline or melody over it... and on pc speakers hear a 
real 
> track. This is akin to doing a decent job on a paint by numbers 
project 
> and then expecting to paint for a living. 
> 
> It's normal to be ambitious at first and you should be, but you 
have to 
> keep things in perspective.
> 
> There is something that a lot of people forget... In dance music 
half of 
> the art is in the mixing and engineering. It's not a science, it's 
taking 
> theory and technique and learning it so well that it becomes 
> transparent... and you start using that knowledge in a 
thoughtless, fluid 
> way. It's the fact that you know the rules and know them well 
enough to 
> break them in your own fashion. The guy that engineered the latest 
pop 
> tune on the radio would probably do a rotten job at making an 
underground 
> dance tune tear it up because that is not his passion. If you 
don't really 
> want something it's just not gonna happen. If you do and have the 
knack 
> for it, it will. It's just a natural progression. That has been 
the way 
> forward since the beginning.
> 
> Nowadays it is so easy to start making music with computers... 
everyone 
> wants instant gratification. There was a time when you had to 
commit 
> yourself to this because you had no choice but to spend a lot of 
cash just 
> to get started. Then you had to rely on your own ambition and 
creativity 
> for new techniques. It seems like the attitudes have gone wrong in 
dance 
> music. People used to take it as a joke because they thought it 
was easy 
> to do... just computer generated, robotic beats. Now people are 
taking it 
> seriously, trying to be producers and want it to be just that 
easy. I 
> don't get it."
> 
> rEalm
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The information transmitted is intended only for the person(s)or 
entity 
> to which it is addressed and may contain confidential and/or 
legally 
> privileged material. Delivery of this message to any person other 
than 
> the intended recipient(s) is not intended in any way to waive 
privilege 
> or confidentiality. Any review, retransmission, dissemination or 
other 
> use of, or taking of any action in reliance upon, this information 
by 

> entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. If you 
> receive this in error, please contact the sender and delete the 
> material from any computer.
> 
> For Translation:
> 
> http://www.baxter.com/email_disclaimer
> 
> 
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

I thought the idea was to stretch yourself and enjoy the process!!!!!


- In xl7@yahoogroups.com, "dwoodaman" <dwoodaman@y...> wrote:
> "Now people are taking it seriously, trying to be producers and 
want 
> it to be just that easy. I don't get it."
> No     . I teach guitar, but I stopped for years after getting an 
> endless succession of dopes that thought I could teach them to 
play 
> like Hendrix or McLoughlin or you name it in three weeks, and god 
> forbid they would have to learn scales!!!!! Just ain't gonna 
happen. 
> To me, songwriting/producing is the most intense mental work I do, 
> and the most rewarding. Why in hell would you want to cut out the 
> process, just to end up with some     -generic music? Aren't you 
> trying to express what YOU are feeling, not someone else?
> Indeed, electronic music is no different than any other art: you 
> only get back out what you put in.
> OK, I'm off my soapbox now.
> Dana
> 
> --- In xl7@yahoogroups.com, erik_magrini@B... wrote:
> > Great post from another website I frequent, author unknown:
> > 
> > "Alright, you know how kids are always going "How do I make my 
> mixes sound 
> > better?" and what not. The answer is so simple really. Just love 
> what you 
> > do, study and practice.
> > 
> > Think about it all day, every day for years and keep learning, 
> keep trying 
> > new ideas all the time.
> > 
> > First off you have to be creative enough to come up with a good 
> idea and 
> > some people just don't have that. If you do have the ideas then 
> you need 
> > to have the patience, knowledge (technical) and confidence to 
> bring it all 
> > together into something that you know is good. There aren't any 
> formulas 
> > for that. It takes time and effort, more of both than most 
people 
> have or 
> > want to give. People are so quick to ask for eq frequencies and 
> > compression settings and what software to use and what synth is 
> good for 
> > this and that. There are more than enough books and web 
resources 
> that 
> > will give you general guidelines.
> > 
> > Man... this is art and people want recipes. I understand that 
> there is 
> > nothing wrong with asking questions, I do it more than most. But 
> when you 
> > ask for a decade's worth of knowledge and experience in one 
broad 
> question 
> > it's obvious that you need to be more self sufficient and dig 
for 
> what you 
> > want. Does anyone want the journey from here to there... or is 
it 
> all 
> > about achieving everything right now?
> > 
> > I don't know why people think that electronic music is any 
> different from 
> > drawing, writing, sculpting, etc... You don't see people on 
forums 
> asking 
> > "How do I paint like Michelangelo?" but somehow... because you 
can 
> click a 
> > few notes into a drum grid on a shareware program and say "Whoa 
I 
> made a 
> > beat!" the idea that a finished product is right around the 
corner 
> > presents itself. Then people start doing stuff and in a month's 
> time don't 
> > understand why their mixes aren't on wax yet. You can load a 
drum 
> kit 
> > consisting of clean hits that are already processed to work 
> together into 
> > a softsampler, spend a while learning to write basic patterns, 
> then throw 
> > a sampled bassline or melody over it... and on pc speakers hear 
a 
> real 
> > track. This is akin to doing a decent job on a paint by numbers 
> project 
> > and then expecting to paint for a living. 
> > 
> > It's normal to be ambitious at first and you should be, but you 
> have to 
> > keep things in perspective.
> > 
> > There is something that a lot of people forget... In dance music 
> half of 
> > the art is in the mixing and engineering. It's not a science, 
it's 
> taking 
> > theory and technique and learning it so well that it becomes 
> > transparent... and you start using that knowledge in a 
> thoughtless, fluid 
> > way. It's the fact that you know the rules and know them well 
> enough to 
> > break them in your own fashion. The guy that engineered the 
latest 
> pop 
> > tune on the radio would probably do a rotten job at making an 
> underground 
> > dance tune tear it up because that is not his passion. If you 
> don't really 
> > want something it's just not gonna happen. If you do and have 
the 
> knack 
> > for it, it will. It's just a natural progression. That has been 
> the way 
> > forward since the beginning.
> > 
> > Nowadays it is so easy to start making music with computers... 
> everyone 
> > wants instant gratification. There was a time when you had to 
> commit 
> > yourself to this because you had no choice but to spend a lot of 
> cash just 
> > to get started. Then you had to rely on your own ambition and 
> creativity 
> > for new techniques. It seems like the attitudes have gone wrong 
in 
> dance 
> > music. People used to take it as a joke because they thought it 
> was easy 
> > to do... just computer generated, robotic beats. Now people are 
> taking it 
> > seriously, trying to be producers and want it to be just that 
> easy. I 
> > don't get it."
> > 
> > rEalm
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > The information transmitted is intended only for the person(s)or 
> entity 
> > to which it is addressed and may contain confidential and/or 
> legally 
> > privileged material. Delivery of this message to any person 
other 
> than 
> > the intended recipient(s) is not intended in any way to waive 
> privilege 
> > or confidentiality. Any review, retransmission, dissemination or 
> other 
> > use of, or taking of any action in reliance upon, this 
information 

> by 
> > entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. If you 
> > receive this in error, please contact the sender and delete the 
> > material from any computer.
> > 
> > For Translation:
> > 
> > http://www.baxter.com/email_disclaimer
> > 
> > 
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Ithink Aarons link on a recent thread layed it ou pretty well:
http://launch.groups.yahoo.com/group/xl7/message/12929


--- In xl7@yahoogroups.com, "u_ri_p_ui" <u_ri_p_ui@y...> wrote:
> I've attached the original German version of my posting to assure 
> that I haven't translated something wrong. Perhaps someone of you 
can 
> understand German.
> 
> 
> 
> Hi everyone,
> 
> you know, I always wonder, why there are so few mp3s, that are 
made 
> exclusively from the XL-7. And a big part of the existing mp3s for 
> that are rather experiments than real, complete songs. I've 
listend 
> to rEalm's mp3: "rEalm__Transistions_Live_PA.mp3", and I'm 
completley 
> amazed about that quality. Great sounds, good effects. But, 
> unfortunately, it's not my music style. I rather tend to 
progressive 
> trance and chill-out, how the German group "Schiller" does that. 
Why 
> are there no _complete_ progressive-trance-mp3-mixes, which are 
> exclusively made with the XL-7??? Why not? Why doesn't exist 
> something like "Osteen__TussinSpace_2.mp3" only made with the XL-
7? 
> No one can tell me, that there are so few people working with the 
XL-
> 7. Or many are working with it, but don't want to give away their 
> songs because they fear any imitations or such things.
> 
> My problem is that I own such a XL-7 and like to make music with 
it. 
> Of course, progressive trance and Schiller-chill.out. But, I don't 
> have any ideas how. I don't have time or pleasure, to learn the 
> complete harmonic-theory or to visit a music-school. In the 
internet 
> I already have found some documents about that, and I read over 
them 
> rapidly. I notice what's a rhythm, and notice, if notes sounds 
wrong. 
> EVERY TIME, when I ask, how I should start making a trance-song, 
I'm 
> always told that I should listen to songs I like ever and ever 
again, 
> and imitate them. Great suggestion. How should I do that? I even 
> can't manage the find out the notes for a simple arpeggio or lead-
> pattern out off such songs. I even can't get a groovy kick-hihat-
> pattern together, that sounds professional. Why are there no midi-
> files for real, professional Trance-Songs? The componosts must 
save 
> their works somewhere. But, it has something to do with that they 
> don't want that someone steals their ideas. Good, ok, I understand 
> that. But why is there no step-by-step-tutorial, how to build a 
> complete trance-piece from scratch? There's simply no one. For 
every 
> other shit, there is somewhere a tutorial, but not for such things.
> 
> If someone tells me now, I should take "Magix Music Maker" and 
become 
> happy, I'm going mad. Why does nobody want to help? Why only the 
> response: "Listen to your favourite songs and imitate them"?
> 
> People, please, don't let my die dumb...
> 
> 
> Thanks and cheers,
> Uri
> 
> BTW.: I hate soft-synths and FruityLoops!
> 
> -------------------------------------------------------------------
---
> -------------------------------------------------------------------
---
> 
> Hi zusammen,
> 
> wisst Ihr, ich habe mich immer gefragt, wieso es so wenige MP3s 
gibt, 
> die ausschlie?ich aus der XL-7 stammen. Und von den MP3s, die es 
> daf? gibt, sind ein Gro?eil eher Experimente statt richtige, 
> fertige Songs. Ich habe mir von rEalm sein MP3-Mix: -
> "rEalm__Transitions_Live_PA.mp3" angeh?t, und bin restlos von 
> dessen Qualit? begeistert. Astreine Sounds, gute Effekte. Leider 
> nicht mein Musikstil. Ich tendiere eher zu Progressive Trance und 
> Chill-Out, so wie es die Deutsche Gruppe "Schiller" macht. Warum 
gibt 
> es keine _kompletten_ Progressive-Trance-MP3-Mixes, welche aus 
einer 
> XL-7 stammen??? Warum nicht? Warum gibt es nicht sowas 
> wie "Osteen__TussinSpace_2.mp3" nur von der XL-7? Es kann mir 
keiner 
> erz?len, dass nur sowenige Leute mit der XL-7 arbeiten. 
> Oder viele arbeiten doch damit und wollen nur nicht deren Songs 
> rausgeben, aus Angst vor Nachmachern oder so.
> 
> Mein Problem ist, dass ich selber solch eine XL-7 besitze und 
gerne 
> damit Musik machen m?hte. Nat?lich Progressive Trance und
> Schiller-Chill-Out. Nur habe ich null Ahnung wie. Ich habe 
wirklich 
> keine Zeit und Lust, mich komplett in die Harmonielehre einzulesen 
> oder 'ne Musikschule zu besuchen. Im Internet habe ich bereits in 
> einige Texte dar?er gefunden und ?erflogen. Ich merke, was
> ein 
> Rhythmus ist, und merke, wenn Noten falsch klingen. JEDESMAL, wenn 
> ich frage, wie ich anfangen soll, ein Trance-St?k zu machen, wird 
> immer gesagt, dass ich Songs, die gut finde immer wieder anh?en 
> soll, und dann diesen Song nachmachen soll. Toller Vorschlag. Wie 
> soll ich das machen? Ich kriege ja noch nicht mal die Noten f?
> einen 
> einfachen Arpeggio oder Lead-Pattern aus solchen Songs raus. Ich 
> kriege noch nicht mal einen groovigen Kick-HiHat-Pattern hin, 
welcher 
> professionell klingt. Warum gibt es f? richtig professionelle
> Trance- Songs keine MIDI-Dateien? 
> Die Komponisten m?sen doch ihre Arbeiten auch irgendwie
> speichern. Aber das hat bestimmt damit was zu tun, dass sie nicht 
> m?hten, dass jemand deren Ideen klaut. Gut, ok, das verstehe ich. 
> Aber wieso gibt es dann kein Schritt-f?-Schritt-Tutorial, wie man 
> ein komplettes Trance-St?k von Anfang an zusammenbastelt? Gibt's 
> einfach nicht. F? jeden anderen Schei?gibt es irgendein
> Tutorial, nur f? sowas nicht.
> 
> Wenn jetzt noch einer ankommt, und mir sagt, ich solle "Magix 
Music 
> Maker" nehmen und gl?klich werden, dann raste ich aus. Warum will
> da niemand helfen? 
> 
> Warum nur die Antwort: "H?e Dir Deine Lieblingsst?ke an und
> mache die nach"?
> 
> Leute, lasst mich bitte nicht dumm sterben...
> 
> 
> Danke und Gru?
> Uri
> 
> PS.: Ich hasse Softsynths und FruityLoops!
> 
> -------------------------------------------------------------------
---
> -------------------------------------------------------------------
---