Emu XL-7 & MP-7 User's Group

http://www.futureproducers.com/forums/showthread/threadid/53412
anybody that can say something about this rumour?

OK...so imagine you had one ROM slot left and money
burning a hole in your pocket (heh!)...and you knew
you were going to get one last ROM for that slot...
and the choice was going to either be the Protean Drum
ROM or the Siedlaczek Orchestra ROM.

assume that you had no greater need for one over the
other, and each would suit the music you create.

why would you choose one over the other? please
address the quality of the base samples, the mapping,
the looping and the quality of the patches that utilize
those samples.

for example, do the patches have effective velocity
control for expression, modwheel assignment for sound
shaping and the like?

again, I could use some realistic drums and percussives,
but I could also use some orchestral section sounds,
and I wonder what people who own one or in particular
both might have to say about them...the more words the
better!


thanks so much in advance!
aeon

I have only heard the drum rom and was very impressed, but that's 
not why I'm chiming in...

If I remember correctly, you only get 2 banks of presets with the 
Orchestra ROM. If so, you had better REALLY want to only add 2 banks 
of Orchestra presets. Sounds like a lot, but rememeber, it's and 
orchestra ROM. Not just strings, but Oboe, etc... too. Might not be 
a huge selection of sounds you will really use in a composition (not 
sure what styles your into though)

If it were me, the Drums. Need good strings? Me too. How often? Not 
too often. And there are more than just strings in there, but how 
how often do you need those other sounds?

Need good drums? Always. And three helpings, please.

-T

--- In xl7@yahoogroups.com, aeon <aeonlux@c...> wrote:

> OK...so imagine you had one ROM slot left and money
> burning a hole in your pocket (heh!)...and you knew
> you were going to get one last ROM for that slot...
> and the choice was going to either be the Protean Drum
> ROM or the Siedlaczek Orchestra ROM.
> 
> assume that you had no greater need for one over the
> other, and each would suit the music you create.
> 
> why would you choose one over the other? please
> address the quality of the base samples, the mapping,
> the looping and the quality of the patches that utilize
> those samples.
> 
> for example, do the patches have effective velocity
> control for expression, modwheel assignment for sound
> shaping and the like?
> 
> again, I could use some realistic drums and percussives,
> but I could also use some orchestral section sounds,
> and I wonder what people who own one or in particular
> both might have to say about them...the more words the
> better!
> 
> 
> thanks so much in advance!
> aeon

> Need good drums? Always. And three helpings, please.

I do find that a few layers of kits stacked onto the same part can sound
very very nice! Pan them slightly off from each other and any sonic weak
spots in the samples are blended out and over.


-m@

http://www.emu.com/products/product.asp?
product=1127&category=635&maincategory=632&nav=spec
--- In xl7@yahoogroups.com, "critten98" <travis.crittenden@c...> 
wrote:
> I have only heard the drum rom and was very impressed, but that's 
> not why I'm chiming in...
> 
> If I remember correctly, you only get 2 banks of presets with the 
> Orchestra ROM. If so, you had better REALLY want to only add 2 
banks 
> of Orchestra presets. Sounds like a lot, but rememeber, it's and 
> orchestra ROM. Not just strings, but Oboe, etc... too. Might not 
be 
> a huge selection of sounds you will really use in a composition 
(not 
> sure what styles your into though)
> 
> If it were me, the Drums. Need good strings? Me too. How often? 
Not 

> too often. And there are more than just strings in there, but how 
> how often do you need those other sounds?
> 
> Need good drums? Always. And three helpings, please.
> 
> -T
> 
> --- In xl7@yahoogroups.com, aeon <aeonlux@c...> wrote:
> > OK...so imagine you had one ROM slot left and money
> > burning a hole in your pocket (heh!)...and you knew
> > you were going to get one last ROM for that slot...
> > and the choice was going to either be the Protean Drum
> > ROM or the Siedlaczek Orchestra ROM.
> > 
> > assume that you had no greater need for one over the
> > other, and each would suit the music you create.
> > 
> > why would you choose one over the other? please
> > address the quality of the base samples, the mapping,
> > the looping and the quality of the patches that utilize
> > those samples.
> > 
> > for example, do the patches have effective velocity
> > control for expression, modwheel assignment for sound
> > shaping and the like?
> > 
> > again, I could use some realistic drums and percussives,
> > but I could also use some orchestral section sounds,
> > and I wonder what people who own one or in particular
> > both might have to say about them...the more words the
> > better!
> > 
> > 
> > thanks so much in advance!
> > aeon

What a dilema, drums or orchestral. Answer- buy another module:)
I like the Sied and provides nice strings, brass, and winds. However 
I think the drum is one of the best roms emu has ever created, maybe 
you can play with a px-7 at the local music shop to check it out or 
read rEalm's review of it. Really it is going to come down to a 
matter of excellent drums/percussion or great spounding orchestrals. 
Sorry I did not address any of your issues below... Let me give them 
a shot for the drum. The samples seem to be of superior quality 
compared to other rom samples. The cymbals and hats seem far more 
realistic in my opinion. The drum has a diverse array of kits from 
broken 8 bits to realistic bread and butter kits and beyond. Arp 
kits are mapped so that a simple up or down arpeggio will play a 
drum pattern. Also the patterns and somgs from the px-7 will work 
with it! I have not used more than a few strings and horns from the 
Sied so far. I've liked what I have used adds a nice organic 
touch,but I can't really tell you much about it...
Lots of luck,
           Tom

--- In xl7@yahoogroups.com, aeon <aeonlux@c...> wrote:

> OK...so imagine you had one ROM slot left and money
> burning a hole in your pocket (heh!)...and you knew
> you were going to get one last ROM for that slot...
> and the choice was going to either be the Protean Drum
> ROM or the Siedlaczek Orchestra ROM.
> 
> assume that you had no greater need for one over the
> other, and each would suit the music you create.
> 
> why would you choose one over the other? please
> address the quality of the base samples, the mapping,
> the looping and the quality of the patches that utilize
> those samples.
> 
> for example, do the patches have effective velocity
> control for expression, modwheel assignment for sound
> shaping and the like?
> 
> again, I could use some realistic drums and percussives,
> but I could also use some orchestral section sounds,
> and I wonder what people who own one or in particular
> both might have to say about them...the more words the
> better!
> 
> 
> thanks so much in advance!
> aeon

Hmmm, a lot of it would depend on what was filling the other slots!

Seriously though. In my case I use VSTs as well in a PC-based 
sequencer/recorder. I think that the E-mu ROMs are good, but I think 
that a LOT of VSTs are better - SampleTankXL, Garritan Personal 
Orchestra, etc.

I really have a hard time doing Drums in anything but a drum-machine. 
Those pads really make the difference. So, I went for the Protean 
Drum ROM ... really happy with my decision. You can't go wrong having 
another couple of hundred drum kits at your fingertips!

--- In xl7@yahoogroups.com, aeon <aeonlux@c...> wrote:

> OK...so imagine you had one ROM slot left and money
> burning a hole in your pocket (heh!)...and you knew
> you were going to get one last ROM for that slot...
> and the choice was going to either be the Protean Drum
> ROM or the Siedlaczek Orchestra ROM

Sorry to jump in on your discussion Aeon, but I have a quick 
question.  I am going to get a new rom this week, probably the 
Protean Drums, and slap it in my XL-7.  Once I download the PX-7 
patterns and songs to my XL-7, will they work w/o having to go and 
assign individual patterns to patches, etc.? 

--- In xl7@yahoogroups.com, "dj 61" <dj61@d...> wrote:
> What a dilema, drums or orchestral. Answer- buy another module:)
> I like the Sied and provides nice strings, brass, and winds. 
However 
> I think the drum is one of the best roms emu has ever created, 
maybe 
> you can play with a px-7 at the local music shop to check it out or 
> read rEalm's review of it. Really it is going to come down to a 
> matter of excellent drums/percussion or great spounding 
orchestrals. 
> Sorry I did not address any of your issues below... Let me give 
them 
> a shot for the drum. The samples seem to be of superior quality 
> compared to other rom samples. The cymbals and hats seem far more 
> realistic in my opinion. The drum has a diverse array of kits from 
> broken 8 bits to realistic bread and butter kits and beyond. Arp 
> kits are mapped so that a simple up or down arpeggio will play a 
> drum pattern. Also the patterns and somgs from the px-7 will work 
with it! I have not used more than a few strings and horns from the 

> Sied so far. I've liked what I have used adds a nice organic 
> touch,but I can't really tell you much about it...
> Lots of luck,
>            Tom
> 
> --- In xl7@yahoogroups.com, aeon <aeonlux@c...> wrote:
> > OK...so imagine you had one ROM slot left and money
> > burning a hole in your pocket (heh!)...and you knew
> > you were going to get one last ROM for that slot...
> > and the choice was going to either be the Protean Drum
> > ROM or the Siedlaczek Orchestra ROM.
> > 
> > assume that you had no greater need for one over the
> > other, and each would suit the music you create.
> > 
> > why would you choose one over the other? please
> > address the quality of the base samples, the mapping,
> > the looping and the quality of the patches that utilize
> > those samples.
> > 
> > for example, do the patches have effective velocity
> > control for expression, modwheel assignment for sound
> > shaping and the like?
> > 
> > again, I could use some realistic drums and percussives,
> > but I could also use some orchestral section sounds,
> > and I wonder what people who own one or in particular
> > both might have to say about them...the more words the
> > better!
> > 
> > 
> > thanks so much in advance!
> > aeon

Not sure if I wrote it here or in another E-Mu group, but yes, Adv. 
Orch. has two banks of 128 presets and 58 ROM instruments. This does 
not (in my opinion) reflect a lack of samples.  I think sample space 
is probably full.  I suspect its more a matter of how the samples are 
used.

My guess (based on my hearing) is that some/many/most/all of the 58 
ROM instruments are multisamples. (Not sure if I have a drum map file 
somewhere.  Anyone?)

Adv.Orch does NOT have assignable ROM instruments for specific 
instruments (oboe, clarinet, bassoon, etc.).  Think of it as an 
ensemble/total orchestra ROM, not as a ROM of individual orchestra 
instruments for strings and winds.

However, Adv.Orch percussion sounds are individual sounds (not 
ensembles).  Tam Tams, Tympanni, etc. seem (at least to my ear) to 
have long natural decays.  Cymbal crash presets sound very 
orchestral, although it sounded to me like they have a slight pizz 
hit (at least in the range I tested).  Cymbal crash presets also have 
cymbal rolls (soft to medium loud, then fairly rapid soft mute).

As to whether or not its what someone wants, as usual its up to 
individual needs.  I recommend looking at the preset list and ROM 
instrument list.

Others have said that Adv.Orch is quite good sound-wise.  I can't say 
that because I haven't compared it with anything else. If possible, 
give it a listen.

Hope this helps.
Dr. Steve


  

--- In xl7@yahoogroups.com, "critten98" <travis.crittenden@c...> 
wrote:
> I have only heard the drum rom and was very impressed, but that's 
> not why I'm chiming in...
> 
> If I remember correctly, you only get 2 banks of presets with the 
> Orchestra ROM. If so, you had better REALLY want to only add 2 
banks 
> of Orchestra presets. Sounds like a lot, but rememeber, it's and 
> orchestra ROM. Not just strings, but Oboe, etc... too. Might not be 
> a huge selection of sounds you will really use in a composition 
(not 

> sure what styles your into though)
> 
> If it were me, the Drums. Need good strings? Me too. How often? Not 
> too often. And there are more than just strings in there, but how 
> how often do you need those other sounds?
> 
> Need good drums? Always. And three helpings, please.
> 
> -T
> 
> --- In xl7@yahoogroups.com, aeon <aeonlux@c...> wrote:
> > OK...so imagine you had one ROM slot left and money
> > burning a hole in your pocket (heh!)...and you knew
> > you were going to get one last ROM for that slot...
> > and the choice was going to either be the Protean Drum
> > ROM or the Siedlaczek Orchestra ROM.
> > 
> > assume that you had no greater need for one over the
> > other, and each would suit the music you create.
> > 
> > why would you choose one over the other? please
> > address the quality of the base samples, the mapping,
> > the looping and the quality of the patches that utilize
> > those samples.
> > 
> > for example, do the patches have effective velocity
> > control for expression, modwheel assignment for sound
> > shaping and the like?
> > 
> > again, I could use some realistic drums and percussives,
> > but I could also use some orchestral section sounds,
> > and I wonder what people who own one or in particular
> > both might have to say about them...the more words the
> > better!
> > 
> > 
> > thanks so much in advance!
> > aeon

That is an interesting approach to an EMU Rom, a very complex 
(somewhat dissimilar) set of multisamples grouped into one 
instrument. Usually only found in drum kits.

Seems to me that many of the artists were able to do whatever they 
wanted in a ROM,approach sound design in their own way. Papen's Rom's 
are a little differnet to (naming conventions, etc...)

on 1/21/04 2:52 PM, critten98 wrote:

> Seems to me that many of the artists were able to do
> whatever they wanted in a ROM, approach sound design
> in their own way. Papen's Rom's are a little differnet
> to (naming conventions, etc...)

I wonder exactly what Rob was thinking...what are the
#2, #3, #4, etc. variation instruments in the TSCY ROM?

they sound like samples with progressive lowpass
filtering, but I am not sure of that...they could also
be referencing different multisamples from the same pool
such that they have differing levels of brightness after
transposition?

it seems he also did a "holes" approach similar to the
Protean Drums ROM such that one has greater flexibility
in making a "custom kit"...that said, I haven't explored
it much to be honest.


cheers,
aeon

> > Seems to me that many of the artists were able to do
> > whatever they wanted in a ROM, approach sound design
> > in their own way. Papen's Rom's are a little differnet
> > to (naming conventions, etc...)
no kidding, I hate the way the patches are arranged on the mophatt 
rom, hardly anything is grouped together in a way that makes sense, 
unless youve had a bunch of weed I suppose....
Dana

Yes. You might want to contact me before ordering, I have been able 
to help a number of people on the board:)
 Tom

--- In xl7@yahoogroups.com, "mikeextremesims" <mikeextremesims@y...> 
wrote:
> Sorry to jump in on your discussion Aeon, but I have a quick 
> question.  I am going to get a new rom this week, probably the 
> Protean Drums, and slap it in my XL-7.  Once I download the PX-7 
> patterns and songs to my XL-7, will they work w/o having to go and 
> assign individual patterns to patches, etc.? 
> 
> --- In xl7@yahoogroups.com, "dj 61" <dj61@d...> wrote:
> > What a dilema, drums or orchestral. Answer- buy another module:)
> > I like the Sied and provides nice strings, brass, and winds. 
> However 
> > I think the drum is one of the best roms emu has ever created, 
> maybe 
> > you can play with a px-7 at the local music shop to check it out 
or 
> > read rEalm's review of it. Really it is going to come down to a 
> > matter of excellent drums/percussion or great spounding 
> orchestrals. 
> > Sorry I did not address any of your issues below... Let me give 
> them 
> > a shot for the drum. The samples seem to be of superior quality 
> > compared to other rom samples. The cymbals and hats seem far 
more 
> > realistic in my opinion. The drum has a diverse array of kits 
from 
> > broken 8 bits to realistic bread and butter kits and beyond. Arp 
> > kits are mapped so that a simple up or down arpeggio will play a 
> > drum pattern. Also the patterns and somgs from the px-7 will 
work 
> with it! I have not used more than a few strings and horns from 
the 

> > Sied so far. I've liked what I have used adds a nice organic 
> > touch,but I can't really tell you much about it...
> > Lots of luck,
> >            Tom
> > 
> > --- In xl7@yahoogroups.com, aeon <aeonlux@c...> wrote:
> > > OK...so imagine you had one ROM slot left and money
> > > burning a hole in your pocket (heh!)...and you knew
> > > you were going to get one last ROM for that slot...
> > > and the choice was going to either be the Protean Drum
> > > ROM or the Siedlaczek Orchestra ROM.
> > > 
> > > assume that you had no greater need for one over the
> > > other, and each would suit the music you create.
> > > 
> > > why would you choose one over the other? please
> > > address the quality of the base samples, the mapping,
> > > the looping and the quality of the patches that utilize
> > > those samples.
> > > 
> > > for example, do the patches have effective velocity
> > > control for expression, modwheel assignment for sound
> > > shaping and the like?
> > > 
> > > again, I could use some realistic drums and percussives,
> > > but I could also use some orchestral section sounds,
> > > and I wonder what people who own one or in particular
> > > both might have to say about them...the more words the
> > > better!
> > > 
> > > 
> > > thanks so much in advance!
> > > aeon

> 
> I wonder exactly what Rob was thinking...what are the
> #2, #3, #4, etc. variation instruments in the TSCY ROM?

May I cross post this to him? I would be interested to know myself. 
I know there are certain legalities involved with pasting others 
words w/ou permission blah blah... I alawys assumed it was just 
variations on the preset maybe for those that aren't into self 
tweaking to be able to choose from different pre-tweaked versions.

> 
> they sound like samples with progressive lowpass
> filtering, but I am not sure of that...they could also
> be referencing different multisamples from the same pool
> such that they have differing levels of brightness after
> transposition?
> 
> it seems he also did a "holes" approach similar to the
> Protean Drums ROM such that one has greater flexibility
> in making a "custom kit"...that said, I haven't explored
> it much to be honest.
> 
> 
> cheers,
> aeon

> > > > --- In xl7@yahoogroups.com, aeon <aeonlux@c...> wrote:
> > > > > OK...so imagine you had one ROM slot left and money
> > > > > burning a hole in your pocket (heh!)...and you knew
> > > > > you were going to get one last ROM for that slot...
> > > > > and the choice was going to either be the Protean Drum
> > > > > ROM or the Siedlaczek Orchestra ROM.

Does the Siedlaczek have good solo strings? When I was at NAMM 
talking to the EMU people, they implied that the Sied was BIG, but 
the Vol 2 Orch has better solo strings. Just want an opionion from 
someone who has Sied.

thanks

TimC

--- In xl7@yahoogroups.com, "timothyconrardy" <tconrardy@h...> wrote:

> Does the Siedlaczek have good solo strings? When I was at NAMM 
> talking to the EMU people, they implied that the Sied was BIG, but 
> the Vol 2 Orch has better solo strings. Just want an opionion from 
> someone who has Sied.

I have Adv.Orch. (Sied).  See my comments:  
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/xl7/message/12359

I can't compare Adv.Orch. with others that I don't have, but I'd 
agree that Adv.Orch is not for you if you want solo strings.  Below 
are the ROM instruments.  (Note: no solo strings.)

Instrument Listing
   str:Vibrato f
   str:Vibrato mp 
   str:Soft Sustain
   str:Tremolo ff 
   str:Tremolo mp
   str:Sordino 
   str:Staccato
   str:Pizzicato 
   str:Vi Col Legno
   str:Va Col Legno 
   brs:Sustained ff
   brs:Staccato f 
   brs:Staccato mp
   wnd:Sustained ff 
   wnd:Staccato f
   wnd:Staccato mp 
   prc:Orchestra
   prc:Tmple Blocks 
   prc:Cowbell f 3G
   prc:Cowbell f C5 
   prc:Cowbell p 3G
   prc:Cowbell p C5 
   prc:Clave A#5
   prc:Clave B5 
   prc:Windchimes
   prc:Orch P2K V1 
   prc:Orch P2K V2
   prc:Orch P2K V3 
   prc:Timpani V1
   prc:Timpani V2 
   prc:Cymbals V1
   prc:Cymbals V2 
   prc:Snare V1
   prc:Snare V2 
   prc:Snare V3
   prc:Snare V4 
   prc:Gran Cssa V1
   prc:Gran Cssa V2 
   prc:Gran Cssa V3
   prc:Gran Cssa V4 
   prc:Tam Tam V1
   prc:Tam Tam V2 
   prc:Orch E4 V01
   prc:Orch E4 V02 
   prc:Orch E4 V03
   prc:Orch E4 V04 
   prc:Orch E4 V05
   prc:Orch E4 V06 
   prc:Orch E4 V07
   prc:Orch E4 V08 
   prc:Orch E4 V09
   prc:Orch E4 V10 
   prc:Orch E4 V11
   prc:Orch E4 V12 
   prc:Orch E4 V13
   prc:Orch E4 V14 
   prc:Orch E4 V15
   prc:Orch E4 V16

Drum ROM definitely, the new samples are really, really nice.

rEalm





aeon <aeonlux@...>
01/20/2004 08:34 PM
Please respond to xl7

 
        To:     xl7@yahoogroups.com
        cc: 

        Subject:        [xl7] This ROM or That ROM?


OK...so imagine you had one ROM slot left and money
burning a hole in your pocket (heh!)...and you knew
you were going to get one last ROM for that slot...
and the choice was going to either be the Protean Drum
ROM or the Siedlaczek Orchestra ROM.

assume that you had no greater need for one over the
other, and each would suit the music you create.

why would you choose one over the other? please
address the quality of the base samples, the mapping,
the looping and the quality of the patches that utilize
those samples.

for example, do the patches have effective velocity
control for expression, modwheel assignment for sound
shaping and the like?

again, I could use some realistic drums and percussives,
but I could also use some orchestral section sounds,
and I wonder what people who own one or in particular
both might have to say about them...the more words the
better!


thanks so much in advance!
aeon


 

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Layering is ESSENTIAL in my opinion, and really the best way to make good 
sounding (if slightly wimpy) hits sound really slamming.

rEalm





"Matt Picone" <matman@...>
01/20/2004 09:08 PM
Please respond to xl7

 
        To:     xl7@yahoogroups.com
        cc: 

        Subject:        RE: [xl7] Re: This ROM or That ROM?


> Need good drums? Always. And three helpings, please.

I do find that a few layers of kits stacked onto the same part can sound
very very nice! Pan them slightly off from each other and any sonic weak
spots in the samples are blended out and over.


-m@


 

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A bunch of weed rarely helps :)  The organization of the ROM instruments 
has always baffled me too, especially on Protean Drums ROM.  None of the 
different velocity samples of individual hits are grouped together... Some 
"samples" are so quiet you can barely hear them, etc.

rEalm





no kidding, I hate the way the patches are arranged on the mophatt 
rom, hardly anything is grouped together in a way that makes sense, 
unless youve had a bunch of weed I suppose....
Dana


 


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to which it is addressed and may contain confidential and/or legally 
privileged material. Delivery of this message to any person other than 
the intended recipient(s) is not intended in any way to waive privilege 
or confidentiality. Any review, retransmission, dissemination or other 
use of, or taking of any action in reliance upon, this information by 
entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. If you 
receive this in error, please contact the sender and delete the 
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