Wiardgroup

:> The closest to being ready to prototype is what I term the "rattler".
:> It will be a stereo miniature plate reverb. Room simulation is not
:> it's goal. Metallic pops, fizzes and sproings are.

Heh...

I'm getting ready to order a Modcan VC Reverb.  I've decided to put an extra
"trigger" jack on the front panel that when pulsed, would fire a small
solenoid with a "striker" on it that would then whack the hell out of the
reverb tank that comes with the module.  Instant "shaken, not stirred"
reverb chaos..

Uhhh, great minds (or something like that) sorta think alike, huh?

Les

I've recently been sketching ideas out for electro-mechanical modules 
that could be stuffed into aluminum boxes. I mentioned it to Grant in 
an email and he thought that I should bring them up here.

The closest to being ready to prototype is what I term the "rattler". 
It will be a stereo miniature plate reverb. Room simulation is not 
it's goal. Metallic pops, fizzes and sproings are.

Another that is further from realization will be a mechanical 
karplus/resonator system. Like a miniature 1 octave chromatic 
clavinet. I was also thinking about something that incorporated em 
feedback and a vc'd glass/metal slide in what amounts to being close 
to "sarod in a box". It will be simpler to implement, no doubt.

I'm not sure many people would find them intriguing, but surely Wiard 
users are apt to be more open to the ideas. I definitely think that 
electro-mechanical modules could be interesting sources of new 
timbres.

Using this as one of the rhythmic elements in a tune would surely be 
the next "Cher AutoTune" fx.

>I've decided to put an extra "trigger" jack on the front panel that 
>when pulsed, would fire a small solenoid with a "striker" on it that 
>would then whack the hell out of the reverb tank that comes with the 
>module.  Instant "shaken, not stirred" reverb chaos..

I emailed the idea to Duncan at Modcan - but he never said anything!

Hmmmm.....

Liquidcolor wrote:

>The closest to being ready to prototype is what I term 
the "rattler". 
It will be a stereo miniature plate reverb. Room simulation is not 
it's goal. Metallic pops, fizzes and sproings are.

[snip]

I'm not sure many people would find them intriguing, but surely Wiard 
users are apt to be more open to the ideas. I definitely think that 
electromechanical modules could be interesting sources of new 
timbres.<

Although anal-retentive purists such as I balk at the idea of 
electromechanical modules, there is a strong historical precedent for 
such devices.  The Ondes Martenot features a speaker coil attached to 
a metallic plate.  The Trautonium uses a similar device (and to very 
good effect).  Paulo Ketoff, inventor of the first portable 
synthesizer (the Synket), modified a plate reverb into a sound 
processor called a "vibrator."  And, in the 1970s, I wrote a short 
article in "Electronotes" on using a slinky as a reverb/sound 
modifier [I must have been less anal as a kid.  :-) ].  Such devices 
can add a lot of analog-ness even to digital sounds.

johnm

> The closest to being ready to prototype is what I term 
the "rattler". 
> It will be a stereo miniature plate reverb. Room simulation is not 
> it's goal. Metallic pops, fizzes and sproings are.

Nice.  Another idea that might be incorporated into this is attach a 
small piezo-pickup/microphone into the system attached to the 
rattler.  I don't know exactly how plate reverb works, so this may 
be superfluous, but if it's like spring reverb in that an actual 
electrical signal is sent throught the plate, then a pickup of some 
sort might be quite fun.  A lot of experimentation has centered 
around very small not obviously musical objects (springs, paper 
clips) which are amplified with piezo-pickups to great musical 
effect.  Adding such might be a good idea in this case, at least as 
an output if nothing else.

> Another that is further from realization will be a mechanical 
> karplus/resonator system. Like a miniature 1 octave chromatic 
> clavinet.

Hmm, not at all sure how this would work--and that's a very good 
thing:).  Is a karplus/resonator system another term for 
karplus/strong synthesis, known for physical modeling using short 
delay times?  If so, I'm not exactly sure how a clavinet-type thing 
would fit with that.  I'd love to hear more about this, as I know a 
fair amount about clavinets, clavichords, etc... and might be able 
to help.

I was also thinking about something that incorporated em 
> feedback and a vc'd glass/metal slide in what amounts to being 
close 
> to "sarod in a box". 

Hmmm, now that sounds interesting.  These all sound like great ideas 
for really different products.  Electro-mechanical type instruments 
became a bit of a dinosaur when purely-electronic designs (synths, 
electronic pianos, organs) became feasible, and in many ways it's a 
shame.  There are some things that just can't be emulated well with 
purely electronic means, IMO, and electro-mechanical items can 
introduce unexpected and complex sounds with relative ease (think of 
a spring reverb--shake it, bang it, put magnets near it, etc...lots 
of fun sounds that would be time consuming to create otherwise).  
Indeed, I can just imagine sending a signal from, say, the wogglebug 
through a small noise-making plate verb and seeing what happens.  
Quite fun.

JR "Bulldogge" Ross
& Snuffy, too:) (in de-lurk mode)

I know a fellow who used to perform a live soundtrack to the film "Metropolis" on a 3-panel serge controlled by the old EMU computerized keyboard/sequencer and a spring-reverb.
The spring reverb was physically suspended at 4 points He struck it with various types of percussion mallets. The output was used a a CONTROL voltage for a bunch of other parameters during the film. He also routed the CV to a a tape recorder that he used as a a loop/delay processor for the CV

was he a member of Einstürzende Neubauten?

just kidding.


mark


drmabuce wrote:

>I know a fellow who used to perform a live soundtrack to the film "Metropolis" on a 3-panel serge controlled by the old EMU computerized keyboard/sequencer and a spring-reverb.
>The spring reverb was physically suspended at 4 points He struck it with various types of percussion mallets. The output was used a a CONTROL voltage for a bunch of other parameters during the film. He also routed the CV to a a tape recorder that he used as a a loop/delay processor for the CV
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>piezo-pickup/microphone into the system

Hi. This is exactly what the design is. It will have 8 transducers in 
all, with 2 on the input and an arrangement of 6 on the output and 
the phase of each output will be seperately selectable. Different 
tips on the strikers.

>Is a karplus/resonator system another term for karplus/strong synthesis.

You know, I realize now that the KS designation doesn't apply to my 
project, because it's not a simulation. Maybe I should use the term 
"prepared piano in a box" or "LaMonte Lite". This one is far from 
being worked out totally, but the concept is strong, at least in my 
mind. :)

>There are some things that just can't be emulated well with
>purely electronic means.

Agreed. They still make orchestral instruments, don't they ?

How about an all analog stereo fx processor in Wiard format ? Grant 
has stated that the problem with a Wiard spring reverb is lack of 
knobs, but couldn't it be done Wiard-style ? How about a 2X vactrol 
compressor, overdrive, short bbd and spring verb in a box. Not very 
imaginative, I know, but it could serve as a master output module in 
a 100% Wiard system. To extend the right side of the sytem, as the 
Borg did while the 'bug extended the left.

Michael

And, in the 1970s, I wrote a short 
> article in "Electronotes" on using a slinky as a reverb/sound 
> modifier [I must have been less anal as a kid.  :-) ].

So, YOUR the guy. Gosh, I built a lot of slinky reverbs over the 
years because of that article.

Here is what you hath wrought...

http://www.musicsynthesizer.com/DIY/Grant/Spring%20Thing/Th
e%20Spring%20Thing.html

Remember, you started it! Also the reverb time is noted as 275 
milliseconds, that should be 2.75 seconds.

Dougs use of little DC motors with the brushes removed as 
rotary pickups is nothing short of brilliant.

The "Spring Thing" link did not post correctly.

My personal synth hacking site is:

http://www.musicsynthesizer.com/DIY/Grant/grant_richters_synth
diy.htm

Look for the "Spring Thing" link.

The Wiard is only a small part of my involvement with 
synthesizers. Mostly, I played them in F/i over many years.

I have built many front panel designs. Mostly the Aries style, but I 
wanted the Wiard to signal graphically the newness of the 
designs inside the panels.

It's been six years since 1996, and frankly the Wiard is rather "old 
hat" to me now. It's a historical reality, in the history books, and 
has been amazingly successful as an art project. I offer no 
apologies.

But it is much too ambitious to sustain for very long.

Grant wrote:

>So, YOUR the guy. Gosh, I built a lot of slinky reverbs over the 
years because of that article.<

Don't know if you were serious, but that little blurb in Electronotes 
actually landed me on of my best and longest jobs at a DSP company 
(Thanks, Bernie H!).  After a grueling 8-hour interview, I met with 
one of the founders, who was a VP there.  He was looking over my list 
of publications.  I was hoping one of my magazine or trade journal 
articles might catch his eye, when he said, "Oh!  The Slinky Spring 
Reverb!  I remember that!  It was in Bernie Hutchins' rag about 20 
years ago."  Other than having a memory like a steel trap, this guy 
was an avid synth dude.  Needless to say, that was a real icebreaker 
and cinched the deal.

>It's been six years since 1996, and frankly the Wiard is rather "old 
hat" to me now. It's a historical reality, in the history books, and 
has been amazingly successful as an art project. I offer no 
apologies.   But it is much too ambitious to sustain for very long.<

Hmmmm...  Was that a confession or a marketing ploy?   :-)

BTW, thank you very much for the URL.  What a fantastic site with a 
lot of great links!  It is now bookmarked.  Should get me out of your 
hair for a while.  ;-)

johnm

In message <as2u4t+nlc0@eGroups.com>, grantrichter2001 
<grichter@asapnet.net> writes
>
>It's been six years since 1996, and frankly the Wiard is rather "old
>hat" to me now. It's a historical reality, in the history books, and
>has been amazingly successful as an art project. I offer no
>apologies.
>
>But it is much too ambitious to sustain for very long.
>

That sounds rather ominous, Grant.....
-- 
Norman Fay