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Re: Josytick controller modules

Re: Josytick controller modules

2002-05-05 by Sebastian Kuehnl

--- Sebastian Kuehnl <skuehnl@yahoo.de> wrote:
> Hello all,
> 
> If someone should be interested in selling their Wiard Joystick
> Controller, please write for details (in Yahoo readable form:
> skuehnl @ yahoo.de).
> 
> Best regards,
> 
> Sebastian Kuehnl
> 

Whoa! To be honest I don't know what a josytick is, but I know that I
would like to buy a Wiard Joystick Controller. How about proofreading
posts especially when asking for sales...


Seriousity disclaimer: do I want this module just because they're
unobtainium now? Partly yes, partly no.

I have been wanting one for a long time. Actually I ordered a Wiard
system in January 2001, but in the course of eleven months time, our
dealings never resulted in a transaction (I fail to see a reason for
this but I know I'm not alone with this situation).

And now the Controller is sold out. In the future it would be
terrific to get such notification in advance, to give me time to go
begging for mercy and modules ;-) No offense.

Best,

Sebastian Kuehnl

__________________________________________________________________

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Re: Josytick controller modules

2002-05-20 by grantrichter2001

> I have been wanting one for a long time. Actually I ordered a 
>Wiard system in January 2001, but in the course of eleven 
>months time, our dealings never resulted in a transaction (I fail 
>to see a reason for this but I know I'm not alone with this 
>situation).

This is a puzzling statement, I am not aware of such a situation.  
I regret my communication was not sufficient to prevent a 
misunderstanding.

Wiard follows the United States Uniform Commercial Code in 
the formation of binding contracts by formal quotation and 
acceptance. An order does not exist until a written quotation has 
been issued, and a deposit needs to be transfered to Wiard to 
establish acceptance of the quotation. In Mr. Kuehnl's case, 
neither of these conditions ever existed.

Mr. Kuehnl	submitted an 8 page list of customizations which he 
wished performed upon the instrument. The modifications were 
so extensive that the instrument no longer met our product 
discription. In other words, Mr. Kuehnl was requesting a 
quotation for something Wiard does not manufacture. Under the 
terms of the Uniform Commercial Code, Wiard responded with a 
"No Bid" to his request for quotation.

Due to the extensive and personal nature of the requested 
modifications, I felt it was in Mr. Kuehnl's best interest to locate a 
supplier within the EU who would be better able to support such 
a personalized instrument. This was the only reasonable and 
proper response to protect Mr. Kuehnl himself.

No quotation was issued and no funds were transfered, there 
was never a business transaction of any kind between Mr. 
Kuehnl and Wiard Synthesizer. It was my hope to be able to 
provide Mr. Kuehnl with a quotation, but it proved to be 
unsupportable over the course of our correspondence.

Wiard has never defaulted on a contract, or failed to perform 
contacted work as quoted by standard American business 
practice. On two occasions, Wiard has returned deposits on 
unreleased products. Wiard's business record is otherwise 
spotless.

Re: Josytick controller modules

2002-05-20 by skuehnl

Hello Grant, hello all,

I am sorry for having made the statement quoted below on a public 
mailinglist. It was silly and unnecessary. Now I have to offer my 
view in addition to yours.

--- In wiardgroup@y..., "grantrichter2001" <grantrichter2001@y...> 
wrote:
> > I have been wanting one for a long time. Actually I ordered a 
> >Wiard system in January 2001, but in the course of eleven 
> >months time, our dealings never resulted in a transaction (I fail 
> >to see a reason for this but I know I'm not alone with this 
> >situation).
> 
> This is a puzzling statement, I am not aware of such a situation.  
> I regret my communication was not sufficient to prevent a 
> misunderstanding.

To my understanding "communication" is something between two or more 
people, and thus its failure cannot be the fault of one individual. I 
told you several times before that I did never accused you of 
"insufficient" quality of our communication, but that I believe every 
communication failure to be mutual. Please: stop apologizing and 
regretting.

> Wiard follows the United States Uniform Commercial Code in 
> the formation of binding contracts by formal quotation and 
> acceptance. An order does not exist until a written quotation has 
> been issued, and a deposit needs to be transfered to Wiard to 
> establish acceptance of the quotation. In Mr. Kuehnl's case, 
> neither of these conditions ever existed.

That's right. But I don't see why they never did. I have never been 
asked to pay a deposit. In fact, two months or so after I had first 
written to you, I asked if I shouldn't pay the 50% down some time, 
but you said you were having deposits for two orders around already 
and would not want to take any more deposits at that time.

> Mr. Kuehnl	submitted an 8 page list of customizations which he 
> wished performed upon the instrument. The modifications were 
> so extensive that the instrument no longer met our product 
> discription. In other words, Mr. Kuehnl was requesting a 
> quotation for something Wiard does not manufacture. Under the 
> terms of the Uniform Commercial Code, Wiard responded with a 
> "No Bid" to his request for quotation.

This is wrong and distorts reality. I'm making a gross statement here 
but anyone who would like to inspect my archived email correspondence 
will see it.

I sent you a wishlist of about a dozen electrical modifications to 
customize my Wiard system. At that time I was not aware that this was 
rather respectless, because I recalled that you had done custom 
things like red faceplates and CV-MIDI converters before. Anyway, a 
while later you agreed on making the modifications, under the 
condition that I supply my own faceplates. I was very appreciative of 
that, and there I was again waiting for you to request a deposit in 
order to make a binding contract.

A few weeks later, I realized that it had been rather respectless of 
me to request all these modifications to your designs while I hadn't 
ever used them myself, and wrote you that I wanted to conduct a 
normal transaction like all your other customers.

After that, I did not hear from you for about two months, and wrote 
to see what's up and asking if it was possible to buy a synth from 
your existing setup in the event you had no time for building my 
Wiard (we're talking six months after my order and no request for 
deposit ever).

It was in reply to this message opf mine that you did what you 
describe below:

> Due to the extensive and personal nature of the requested 
> modifications, I felt it was in Mr. Kuehnl's best interest to 
locate a 
> supplier within the EU who would be better able to support such 
> a personalized instrument. This was the only reasonable and 
> proper response to protect Mr. Kuehnl himself.

Please, protect me from what? Pretty please?

From buying something I might regret having bought because it doesn't 
make me happy, like you have been telling several other prospective 
customers? Grant, it is my own and only my own responsibility to buy 
only things that I will be happy with.

I think what you are saying between the lines is, that you consider 
spending time on building a synth the buyer might not like wasted 
time that you could have spent for building for someone else.

> No quotation was issued and no funds were transfered, there 
> was never a business transaction of any kind between Mr. 
> Kuehnl and Wiard Synthesizer. It was my hope to be able to 
> provide Mr. Kuehnl with a quotation, but it proved to be 
> unsupportable over the course of our correspondence.

I don't understand a word. Why didn't you tell the story to its end?

Ten weeks after you had suggested I buy synths from European vendors 
rather than Wiard, like you described above, you wrote to me an 
apology. You said that you had said this because you had been under 
strain at that time, and that you would like to take up our dealings. 
I agreed. And waited again for you to ask me for a deposit (since in 
the back of my head I still had the picture of you temporarily 
refusing to take new deposits, like back in February).

Anyway, a few weeks after that, I had to report to you that I had 
lost money and could not buy a new Wiard system at that time. You 
then made me the terrific offer of selling me your Wiard prototypes 
because they were cheaper than new modules. I was overjoyed by that 
idea of yours and accepted.

Strangely, after that I never heard from you again. This is why I 
said in the "Joystick wanted" message that I did not understand why 
we never made it to a transaction.

Regards,

Sebastian Kuehnl

PS - One of the modiofications I had asked back then was a lowpass 
gating mode for the Borg. Which is reality by now.
Show quoted textHide quoted text
> Wiard has never defaulted on a contract, or failed to perform 
> contacted work as quoted by standard American business 
> practice. On two occasions, Wiard has returned deposits on 
> unreleased products. Wiard's business record is otherwise 
> spotless.

Re: [wiardgroup] Re: Josytick controller modules

2002-05-20 by C. Whitten

This thread is highly distasteful and SHOULD be conducted in private.
However I'd like to throw in a couple of thoughts just on the basis of
bringing us back to reality.
The Wiard website quite clearly states that a 50% deposit is required.
I believe in business, especially in the case of small or one man
operations, a company should have the right to refuse to undertake custom
work and possibly even to refuse orders should they believe future
complications might occur.
CW

Re: Josytick controller modules

2002-05-20 by skuehnl

--- In wiardgroup@y..., "C. Whitten" <chris@c...> wrote:
> This thread is highly distasteful and SHOULD be conducted in 
private.
> However I'd like to throw in a couple of thoughts just on the 
basis of
> bringing us back to reality.
> The Wiard website quite clearly states that a 50% deposit is 
required.
> I believe in business, especially in the case of small or one 
man
> operations, a company should have the right to refuse to 
undertake custom
> work and possibly even to refuse orders should they believe 
future
> complications might occur.
> CW

Totally agreed. I hope it's not asked too much however, to be told 
the reasons for this straightforward since both parties have 
spent quite some time on it before. If somebody has a problem 
with my ways chances are we might get along better if we can 
talk about it. I'm open to it.

As for reality... no one has a claim on it.

S

Re: Josytick controller modules

2002-05-23 by prokhorovka53704

Sebastian-
Your posts provide an interesting read but they seem a bit 
aggressive and defensive. In my opinion Grant has a refreshing 
reservation in pushing his creation. He wants to make sure (as 
best as he can) that people are going to be happy with their 
purchase. He's like a guilds craftsman - old world kind of values 
- not into producing Wiards for production and profit's sake. The 
modules are expensive and he wants people to be pleased with 
their investment. When I first inquired about the system he said 
"look, this is the most complex synthesizer ever built and you 
may be served better by starting out with another system." This is 
not the usual line you hear from a person pushing their wares. 
I'm on the ground floor with modular equipment and Grant was 
giving me useful and thoughtful advice sans elitism. He was 
protecting me from making decisions too quickly. I've now got a 
Wogglebug and a litterbox for it and I haven't been happier. I 
intend on building the system one at a time slowly and learn and 
love it as I go (hopefully it won't shock me). Sebastian, I know 
you're an experienced user (compared to me by a long shot) 
from seeing your posts on this and the Serge website. The 
designers/builders of these systems are smart, interesting folks  
who I believe honestly care about the people they do business 
with. These are values that are fast disappearing in our global 
economy. They're looking out for our interests while trying to fill 
the orders and live their lives. What more should we ask of 
them?
Regards,
Bill Gibson

Re: Josytick controller modules

2002-05-23 by skuehnl

Hello Bill,

--- In wiardgroup@y..., "prokhorovka53704" <kursk1@e...> wrote:
> Sebastian-
> Your posts provide an interesting read but they seem a bit 
> aggressive and defensive.

I have the greatest respect for Grant. For running this company as 
well as for his most creative and sophisticated products. Aggressive 
- no.

Defensive - yes. I was NOT requesting any mods at the time my order 
was cancelled for the first time, and we DID deal again after that, 
etc, etc, etc.

Please let's now put this topic to rest in the interest of everybody. 
If somebody should have serious concerns about whose statements are 
"the truth" -- well, I'm not interested in being right just for the 
sake of being right, and will let them conduct their own judgement by 
disclosing my email correspondence.

Be assured that the reasoning you described in your email was not an 
important factor in my dealings with Wiard Company. I found your 
remarks very interesting nevertheless, Bill, and I wish you the most 
of fun with your Wiard instruments.

Best regards,

Sebastian Kuehnl

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